Halpher said: j0x said: and also streaming license fees are getting huge enough for the production committees in the anime industry to at least reach break-even profit I did the conversion on Google and according to it: 150$ = 16377.58 Yen, and 300$ = 32755.17 yen. Is that alot of money in Japan? i think your math is off, the articles are pointing out hundreds of thousands of US dollars the point is to show the minimum guarantee or initial fee to get the rights for streaming licenses of anime can give the anime industry a break-even profit already, and the royalties later on as well as sales from other sources like merchandises and disc sales (DVD/Bluray) will all be additional profits later have you seen the anime industry yearly report? here you can read the 2016 report summary http://aja.gr.jp/english/japan-anime-data |
| Hi Steve, Thank you for your opinion and encouragement However, I'm not American so, bye |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| @j0x Nah, it was off it was just I messed up as I didn't put in the right USD amount in there. Here's the amount according to the Converter that you can use on Google. 125.000$ = 13,647,986.76 Yen While for 300,000$ = 32,755,168.22 Yen. Seems alot it seems. I don't know about Japan's economy. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
amk_2397 said: As someone whose been using CR for a little over a year now, I can certainly say that I'd rather be using it than illegal streams not because it's legal but mainly because I believe it's a better service. And I don’t mean that in the sense that their catalogue of anime is better than say kissanime. I like the way the site is set up and even when I lived in Australia I’d say the catalogue of anime was pretty good. And while legality does play a part in why I use CR, I’m not gonna go and wave that around like it’s a badge of honor. For me, it’s just my preferred streaming site. Manaban said: I'm majoring in PR right now and this really fucking hurts. Like yeah, promote the idea of watching anime legally but don't be a cunt about it. Cause you are doing that isn't going to make people want to go to CR at all.   heyyyyyyyyyyy I know about Miles the PR guy and how he represents CR source video I do feel like those two would get along just fine so I can trust Mother's Basement when he says that he knows Miles personally, if nothing else But yeah, this seems like somebody we should trust because he represents CR. Totally. Thats cool, @amk_2397. If you feel Crunchyroll provides the service that you want then go ahead and pay for it's service. I am perfectly fine with it. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Kittens-kun said: Dillan- said: Right now I'm in the mindset of "I try not too, but..." It's cool how some people will purely use legal means to watch anime. There are issues concerning the current system but that's no excuse to justify piracy because really aren't any valid justifications. There is always a choice, more so now then ever before. I feel like we need changes in the system as much as we need perspectives to change about anime consumerism if we ever want to see piracy decrease. So when people in the community say "I only use legal methods to watch anime, and I recommend you do the same." then I think that's there prerogative. There aren't any valid justifications? Shit services with small ass selections. High prices. Not letting people watch the shows you license until 6 months after they air (and even then it's not the full series) Not being available in most countries. No justifications? Really? Well yeah, otherwise its like saying that we have the privilege to watch every show and when we can't its justifiable to pirate them. The ethical course of action would be to forgo watching that show until it becomes available legally, if and when it does. That system isn't convenient, so it makes sense that piracy is running rampant, yet it doesn't really excuse it, as @Hey_Taka-tin_Hey put it, "don't pretend to be anything but a leech, I'm one myself." |
Halpher said: The assumption is that those who like spending their time watching anime and enjoy the "discuss it weekly as it comes out" social aspect, as opposed to something else, have some interest in seeing the system continuing to produce a good quantity of high-quality anime going forward into the future. I don't think it's too controversial or forced-morality to say, "Hey, maybe these random jokers running bootleg streaming sites shouldn't get to line their pockets by exploiting the anime industry, the legal translation/dubbing industry, and the fansubbing scene in the process." But a lot of the bootleg boosters out there seem to think that this state of affairs is perfectly fine, even as they decry the notion that any money might go to those dastardly and eeeeeeevil "middlemen" like CR, Funimation, etc.. If you want to pirate anime, there's ways to do it that don't involve giving ad revenue (or for you "I have Ultimate BlockEverything software installed" types, increasing the sites' traffic/ranking numbers, thereby improving revenue from ads that are seen by other users) to random third parties.The issue for me is the people who oppose Illegal Streaming as they force their morality onto people and try to make them feel obligated to do something that they aren't inclined to even do and shame them. The people on this side also typically try to state those who watch anime on the illegal stream sites will be the death of the anime industry to get them to support it. I think these people don't actually think about the service or the consumer as they're only focused to supporting the anime industry and act as if they play a big part in it and are on the morally correct side of the issue. Why do they never accept that some anime viewers possibly don't care about the industry and only care about watching anime and being entertained? In other debates on this topic, people have told me, "The industry shouldn't go after pirate sites, because that might alienate 'future consumers' who might buy a $3 anime keychain 10 years from now!" But if illegal streaming users don't care about anime and are just watching it because it's free and low-risk, what does the industry have to lose by getting bootleg streaming sites shut down? If the sites' users are indeed worthless freeloaders, they'll just move on to something else like the locusts they are. Why do they think that the only reason people get on Kissanime or any illegal streaming sites is because it's free? Honestly, many rather use the illegal streaming sites because it provides better service. Didn't you just say that those sites' users are casual viewers who don't care about anime and just watch because it's free? Also, maybe because a disproportionate share of KA's traffic comes from places like the US and Japan, which hardly lack for legal options? Or because KA's most-viewed shows are the same ones that're available on legal streaming sites? Or because KA's streams for recent anime are nearly always lower-quality re-encodes of legal streams, including the exact same subtitle translations? By and large, illegal site users are getting the same product as legal-streaming viewers, just without those pesky subscription costs or time spent watching ads.Funny how "better service" always seems to mean "a service I don't have to pay for." As far as affordability goes, you don't even have to pay anything to watch on CR or Funi, if you're willing to wait a week, watch in SD, and watch ads. "I can't afford CR/Funi" is merely code for not wanting to do any of those 3 things. Even if you were to subscribe to every streaming service that hosts airing anime, it'd be something like $50 a month. A price that, ~12 years ago, would've bought maybe two 3-5-episode DVDs of a single series 18-24 months after the JP airing. As the industry, at least in North America, has asked less and less of anime viewers, the anti-industry crowd has had to resort to more and more ridiculous logical contortions ("Your purchases don't really count"! "The industry's not worth supporting anyway!" "If it crashes, something better will rise up like a phoenix to replace it!") to justify their positions. Especially as the difference between the legal and illegal versions has become negligible. |
ZalisAug 19, 2017 9:07 PM
on | @Zalis What makes service good depends to a person on what they think. It depends. Some go for the library while some go because it's better than others while others go because it's free. There are many reasons. I don't want to generalize. Also, I'm not defending KissAnime or any illegal streaming service as literally I understand why some oppose them. When I say "Forced Morality" it's pushing this morality onto people that they must do these things because of what someone says and thats complete BS. I keep saying that people should do whats best for them and if the illegal streaming services provides something better then they will use it. I'm telling the consumer to do better and if the anime industry wants to survive they'll adapt to this and make their business profitable. The point is simple and it putting it into perspective. The more a company notices the more they will adapt to the situation to profit. Some Consumer are in it for themselves and not the company and thats the point. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
I know it is terrible but- I actually agree with him. Not about Netflix but definitely about Amazon. Mostly because Amazon is a double paywall that is $160 to enter. So I don't think it is hypocrisy really to ask people to at least pay for the least toxic of the services with the cheapest price around and that is Crunchyroll- which has over 1000 anime and puts out anime hours after release in Japan. Vs Netflix which doesn't and vs. Amazon which doesn't do so for a reasonable price. Netflix doesn't have that many anime. Amazon is expensive for what it is offering if you aren't also wanting shipments to your house. And Amazon only offers it's service in the USA. Netflix offers more than just USA so I don't have a problem with them really. Funimation only offers USA, Canada, and sometimes UK to my knowledge. And Hulu is not playing games like this it does host anime though but it is a USA only service. Sooooo if you are in the USA, you have no excuse in my opinion unless you are watching hentai. You have plenty of options for racking up well over 1000 anime. And since over 40% of the viewership on KissAnime is USA and for brand new currently airing shows, most of which is on Crunchyroll, the rest are licensed and found on Amazon or Netflix... yeah. Pretty much. Asking people to pay even a small amount for what they love is not hypocritical. He could have been hardline saying "oh buy amazon and Netflix if you want those shows and if they aren't in your country too fucking bad!" I mean really now. Which BTW, I do know a youtuber who is like that so much so that he bought a region free DVD player just so he could buy DVDs from the USA... no joke. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| The blu-ray for DBZ is only about $20 per season (39 episodes). DVD is even cheaper. $180 to own a really long series like that on bluray isn't bad. I personally own all of Yu Yu Hakusho on DVD. I personally recommend that one too. 4 box sets. less than $20 per(you can get the bluray for that price about now too!). Excellent prices for what it is. :) But if you want to stream it free, with commercials, you can here if you are in the USA for sure. https://www.funimation.com/shows/dragon-ball-z/ Speaking as a person who met Chris Sabat- I never regretted buying the first season of DBZ or buying all of Yu Yu Hakusho.I have met much of the cast of DBZ and Yu Yu Hakusho. They have signed so much of my stuff. I love Chuck Huber.He is so funny. He even dressed up as Hiei for me cause I brought the costume. |
Energetic-NovaAug 19, 2017 9:49 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| You mean to say you don't have 2 TB worth of anime on your computer? |
| @Rotton-Girl No that is untenable. What you said is similar what I've been saying this entire time, but without justifying a hypocrite. I've been saying that the consumer should go for the service best for them. What you're saying is for them to pay for the least toxic service is because it's least toxic. If it's toxic then people shouldn't go for it. What it should be is good service. Also, you said that no one has an excuse. Some are justifying it while others may not give a flying damn. Some people don't care and some people think the illegal sites are better because they provide better service to them. It doesn't matter if it's illegal as people will do what in their best interest. You can't stand by a creed and then go against that creed because it plays to your biases. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Halpher said: @Zalis What makes service good depends to a person on what they think. It depends. Some go for the library while some go because it's better than others while others go because it's free. There are many reasons. I don't want to generalize. Also, I'm not defending KissAnime or any illegal streaming service as literally I understand why some oppose them. When I say "Forced Morality" it's pushing this morality onto people that they must do these things because of what someone says and thats complete BS. I keep saying that people should do whats best for them and if the illegal streaming services provides something better then they will use it. I'm telling the consumer to do better and if the anime industry wants to survive they'll adapt to this and make their business profitable. The point is simple and it putting it into perspective. The more a company notices the more they will adapt to the situation to profit. Some Consumer are in it for themselves and not the company and thats the point. The library is publicly funded by the government. They pay for the books there legally. They didn't steal them. It actually is the same if you were say to rent Neon Genesis Evangelion from Netflix- as checking something out from the library. Or borrowing a dvd from a friend. :P Oh and the government becomes flexible on some piracy if it is for educational purposes. Example- if you used pages of a copyrighted work for educational purposes, it is not against the law. Granted, you couldn't have first stolen it. But you could distribute it for educational reasons privately. And even publically in some cases provided it doesn't inhibit the sales of the original work. Like, if you took a clip of an anime, and you put educational bits over it with hiragana and katakana and English subs. And then broke down the grammar= you wouldn't have to get copyright as long as you weren't being paid for it. Really good example of the type of video Disney lets people get away with posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HAwwnvt5j0 |
Energetic-NovaAug 19, 2017 9:59 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @Rotton-Girl Wait, are you saying the government funds KissAnime's library? I need some clarity here. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Funimation does, so they definitely will soon. Crunchyroll is slowly getting all of Funimation's catalog (albeit subtitled-only). |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
Halpher said: @Rotton-Girl No that is untenable. What you said is similar what I've been saying this entire time, but without justifying a hypocrite. I've been saying that the consumer should go for the service best for them. What you're saying is for them to pay for the least toxic service is because it's least toxic. If it's toxic then people shouldn't go for it. What it should be is good service. Also, you said that no one has an excuse. Some are justifying it while others may not give a flying damn. Some people don't care and some people think the illegal sites are better because they provide better service to them. It doesn't matter if it's illegal as people will do what in their best interest. You can't stand by a creed and then go against that creed because it plays to your biases. Pay $10 get VRV. You have all of funimation and all of crunchyroll. And I actually think Crunchyroll is a god damn blessing and you are a crybaby. Sincerely a 90's kid who paid $30 per 2 episodes or had to catch it on TV and record it back in the day with no other options! (yeah, I own several series on VHS. I have several completed series on DVD and several series on Bluray. You are a god damned baby. ) Manga volumes cost more than Crunchyroll. Go to your mommy and ask for the monies. The best service is the one with the most anime right? Then that would be Crunchyroll if you are in the USA. Because over 1000 anime. If you need dubbed anime, Funimation. If you can pay a couple dollars more VRV if you have a strong internet. If not, get both services because in the end, it isn't that much. In the end, buying even one volume of yaoi cost more than that. XD Manga sure, I can understand pirating that. But anime? At this point in time, anime has never ever been cheaper. And it is literally pennies per episode right now through Crunchyroll. |
Energetic-NovaAug 19, 2017 10:09 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @Rotton-Girl No....not going to have my parents pay for it and they wouldn't anyway. Anime is not as important as other things to put on a bill. Also, I haven't really used Crunchyroll and all i'm saying is why possibly some wouldn't pay for it. I'm not saying Crunchyroll is shit or good as the only thing i've seen is the library as that wouldn't really suit my needs. Crunchyroll to you is a blessing and I don't care if it is to you. I don't care if something is cheap....if it's not giving me what I want then I won't get it. I don't care. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Halpher said: @Rotton-Girl No....not going to have my parents pay for it and they wouldn't anyway. Anime is not as important as other things to put on a bill. Also, I haven't really used Crunchyroll and all i'm saying is why possibly some wouldn't pay for it. I'm not saying Crunchyroll is shit or good as the only thing i've seen is the library as that wouldn't really suit my needs. Crunchyroll to you is a blessing and I don't care if it is to you. I don't care if something is cheap....if it's not giving me what I want then I won't get it. I don't care. If you want fucking DBZ than buy DBZ then. Don't be an asshole, claim you <3 anime and not pay for it. You are the hypocrite here. DBZ is less than a dollar per episode. Is DBZ not worth 65cents per episode to you? If you buy DVD- it is 30cents per episode. wow. total score right? But no. Not to someone who doesn't actually love it. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
The people on this side also typically try to state those who watch anime on the illegal stream sites will be the death of the anime industry to get them to support it. Well... yeah, if no one was actually paying for shows the anime industry would naturally die.I think these people don't actually think about the service or the consumer People that don't pay for their anime aren't consumers. Being a consumer means purchasing a good or service for personal use.act as if they play a big part in it and are on the morally correct side of the issue They don't play a big part in it but certainly more than who doesn't pay anything. They are on the morally correct side of the issue, if they are being asses about it then it's another topic.Honestly, many rather use the illegal streaming sites because it provides better service No, large majority who use illegal streaming knowing that is illegal streaming are doing it just because it is free. An actually better service is torrenting.legal service sites aren't the best for some. Why should some care about these things such as the industry? What if they're a casual viewer or someone just trying to waste time? I agree that legal service sites aren't the best for some and that caring about the industry itself is beyond most people's active interest and that some people might watch anime just to pass time, however that still doesn't change that they are watching a licensed show on an illegal steaming service, thus (legally) morally wrong.People are going to do whats most convenient and people need to accept that. It's never about you or what you feel is right as many viewers could care less and would do what benefits them the most. Accepting that the world is unfair won't make it fair. Fighting illegal streaming services with just "you shouldn't watch them" doesn't seem the right way but I doubt Crunchyroll has the resources to provide such a good service that would surpass the convenience of being free.They might be assholes about it and Mother's basement a hypocrite making a Kakegurui video but that doesn't change that watching a licensed show illegally is making use of a service without paying those who have the rights to it. |
zalAug 19, 2017 11:30 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I'll pirate whatever the fuck i want. I ain't paying for shit!!! |
Rotton-Girl said: Manga sure, I can understand pirating that. But anime? At this point in time, anime has never ever been cheaper. And it is literally pennies per episode right now through Crunchyroll. this also bug me for a while... not even manga scanlation team being white knight about what they do... they oftenly put desclaimer how it's marely fans works and how they suggest even to their reader that it's better for them to support industries... does anime fansub, and their leechers and it's users always have been like this? zal said: The people on this side also typically try to state those who watch anime on the illegal stream sites will be the death of the anime industry to get them to support it. Well... yeah, if no one was actually paying for shows the anime industry would naturally die.I think these people don't actually think about the service or the consumer People that don't pay for their anime aren't consumers. Being a consumer means purchasing a good or service for personal use.act as if they play a big part in it and are on the morally correct side of the issue They don't play a big part in it but certainly more than who doesn't pay anything. They are on the morally correct side of the issue, if they are being asses about it then it's another topic.Honestly, many rather use the illegal streaming sites because it provides better service No, large majority who use illegal streaming knowing that is illegal streaming are doing it just because it is free. An actually better service is torrenting.legal service sites aren't the best for some. Why should some care about these things such as the industry? What if they're a casual viewer or someone just trying to waste time? I agree that legal service sites aren't the best for some and that caring about the industry itself is beyond most people's active interest and that some people might watch anime just to pass time, however that still doesn't change that if they are watching a licensed show on an illegal steaming service, thus (legally) morally wrong.People are going to do whats most convenient and people need to accept that. It's never about you or what you feel is right as many viewers could care less and would do what benefits them the most. Accepting that the world is unfair won't make it fair. Fighting illegal streaming services with just "you shouldn't watch them" doesn't seem the right way but I doubt Crunchyroll has the resources to provide such a good service that would surpass the convenience of being free.They might be assholes about it and Mother's basement a hypocrite making a Kakegurui video but that doesn't change that watching a licensed show illegally is making use of a service without paying those who have the rights to it. we are rarely agreed, but this is beatiful... |
KumaAug 19, 2017 10:31 PM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| @Rotton-Girl If I want DBZ I'll watch it on Kissanime. Know what Hypocrite means before you use it. I never stated anything that dictated that I was obligated to do anything. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
zal said: The people on this side also typically try to state those who watch anime on the illegal stream sites will be the death of the anime industry to get them to support it. Well... yeah, if no one was actually paying for shows the anime industry would naturally die.I think these people don't actually think about the service or the consumer People that don't pay for their anime aren't consumers. Being a consumer means purchasing a good or service for personal use.act as if they play a big part in it and are on the morally correct side of the issue They don't play a big part in it but certainly more than who doesn't pay anything. They are on the morally correct side of the issue, if they are being asses about it then it's another topic.Honestly, many rather use the illegal streaming sites because it provides better service No, large majority who use illegal streaming knowing that is illegal streaming are doing it just because it is free. An actually better service are torrents.legal service sites aren't the best for some. Why should some care about these things such as the industry? What if they're a casual viewer or someone just trying to waste time? I agree that legal service sites aren't the best for some and that caring about the industry itself is beyond most people's active interest and that some people might watch anime just to pass time, however that still doesn't change that if they are watching a licensed show on an illegal steaming service they are morally wrong.People are going to do whats most convenient and people need to accept that. It's never about you or what you feel is right as many viewers could care less and would do what benefits them the most. Accepting that the world is unfair won't make it fair. Fighting illegal streaming services with just "you shouldn't watch them" doesn't seem the right way but I doubt Crunchyroll has the resources to provide such a good service that would surpass the convenience of being free.They might be assholes about it and Mother's basement an hypocrite making a Kakegurui video but that doesn't change that watching a licensed show illegally is making use of a service without paying those who have the rights to it. Everything you said is true. Torrents are an actually better service. Most of my other friends who pirate anything use torrents. And good on them would hate for them to sit around and give that website lots of commercial traffic. And yeah sometimes I am an asshole on this. But seriously I am tired of the excuses. I do pirate manga. I feel guilty for it. But the service actually is bad for yaoi manga. But I am always listening if the release was any good for it. So often they are flat out badly translated, sometimes printed on bad paper. Sometimes only distributed digitally (requiring an app to read them) AND badly translated. Sometimes they are stupidly flipped... The anime on Crunchy don't have near as bad an issue (aside from Yugioh where they decided to use the English card names jesus). And if I have one thing I miss it is ADV, Geneon, Bandai, and old rightstuf, were they were all about putting honorifics and culture notes in there. (Modern "fansubs" actually just steal from crunchyroll anyway... :/ ) But that is why I seek those dvds out. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Kuma said: Rotton-Girl said: Manga sure, I can understand pirating that. But anime? At this point in time, anime has never ever been cheaper. And it is literally pennies per episode right now through Crunchyroll. this also bug me for a while... not even manga scanlation team being white knight about what they do... they oftenly put desclaimer how it's marely fans works and how they suggest even to their reader that it's better for them to support industries... does anime fansub, and their leechers and it's users always have been like this? The only anime sub group I know of that always puts notes about suppoting the official release should it arrive is Aarinfantasy. AKA- the yaoifansub team. And yeah a lot of the stuff they subbed didn't come out for years and some of it NEVER available to legally own. Most infamously- everyone has watched their sub of Boku no Pico. And yes, I own much of what I initially watched there. (including the first things, Gravitation and Sensitive Pornograph) |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Halpher said: You implied you would pay for a service if they had DBZ. Funimation does. @Rotton-Girl If I want DBZ I'll watch it on Kissanime. Know what Hypocrite means before you use it. I never stated anything that dictated that I was obligated to do anything. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @Rotton-Girl When? And it what context? |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
| @Rotton-Girl and even if I did saying I would pay for DBZ doesn't mean I would pay for Crunchyroll or Netflix or any streaming service. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Dillan- said: Kittens-kun said: There aren't any valid justifications? Shit services with small ass selections. High prices. Not letting people watch the shows you license until 6 months after they air (and even then it's not the full series) Not being available in most countries. No justifications? Really? Well yeah, otherwise its like saying that we have the privilege to watch every show and when we can't its justifiable to pirate them. The ethical course of action would be to forgo watching that show until it becomes available legally, if and when it does. That system isn't convenient, so it makes sense that piracy is running rampant, yet it doesn't really excuse it, as @Hey_Taka-tin_Hey put it, "don't pretend to be anything but a leech, I'm one myself." If they aren't providing a show, then there's nothing wrong with watching it illegally. I'm supposed to just avoid certain entertainment? Why? It's their faults that the only way to watch certain shows is through illegal sites. I should avoid those shows because it's the "right thing to do"? Fuck that. You can call me leech all you want. I don't care. |
 |
Zalis said: Halpher said: The assumption is that those who like spending their time watching anime and enjoy the "discuss it weekly as it comes out" social aspect, as opposed to something else, have some interest in seeing the system continuing to produce a good quantity of high-quality anime going forward into the future. I don't think it's too controversial or forced-morality to say, "Hey, maybe these random jokers running bootleg streaming sites shouldn't get to line their pockets by exploiting the anime industry, the legal translation/dubbing industry, and the fansubbing scene in the process." But a lot of the bootleg boosters out there seem to think that this state of affairs is perfectly fine, even as they decry the notion that any money might go to those dastardly and eeeeeeevil "middlemen" like CR, Funimation, etc.. If you want to pirate anime, there's ways to do it that don't involve giving ad revenue (or for you "I have Ultimate BlockEverything software installed" types, increasing the sites' traffic/ranking numbers, thereby improving revenue from ads that are seen by other users) to random third parties.The issue for me is the people who oppose Illegal Streaming as they force their morality onto people and try to make them feel obligated to do something that they aren't inclined to even do and shame them. The people on this side also typically try to state those who watch anime on the illegal stream sites will be the death of the anime industry to get them to support it. I think these people don't actually think about the service or the consumer as they're only focused to supporting the anime industry and act as if they play a big part in it and are on the morally correct side of the issue. Why do they never accept that some anime viewers possibly don't care about the industry and only care about watching anime and being entertained? In other debates on this topic, people have told me, "The industry shouldn't go after pirate sites, because that might alienate 'future consumers' who might buy a $3 anime keychain 10 years from now!" But if illegal streaming users don't care about anime and are just watching it because it's free and low-risk, what does the industry have to lose by getting bootleg streaming sites shut down? If the sites' users are indeed worthless freeloaders, they'll just move on to something else like the locusts they are. Why do they think that the only reason people get on Kissanime or any illegal streaming sites is because it's free? Honestly, many rather use the illegal streaming sites because it provides better service. Didn't you just say that those sites' users are casual viewers who don't care about anime and just watch because it's free? Also, maybe because a disproportionate share of KA's traffic comes from places like the US and Japan, which hardly lack for legal options? Or because KA's most-viewed shows are the same ones that're available on legal streaming sites? Or because KA's streams for recent anime are nearly always lower-quality re-encodes of legal streams, including the exact same subtitle translations? By and large, illegal site users are getting the same product as legal-streaming viewers, just without those pesky subscription costs or time spent watching ads.Funny how "better service" always seems to mean "a service I don't have to pay for." As far as affordability goes, you don't even have to pay anything to watch on CR or Funi, if you're willing to wait a week, watch in SD, and watch ads. "I can't afford CR/Funi" is merely code for not wanting to do any of those 3 things. Even if you were to subscribe to every streaming service that hosts airing anime, it'd be something like $50 a month. A price that, ~12 years ago, would've bought maybe two 3-5-episode DVDs of a single series 18-24 months after the JP airing. As the industry, at least in North America, has asked less and less of anime viewers, the anti-industry crowd has had to resort to more and more ridiculous logical contortions ("Your purchases don't really count"! "The industry's not worth supporting anyway!" "If it crashes, something better will rise up like a phoenix to replace it!") to justify their positions. Especially as the difference between the legal and illegal versions has become negligible. Can you provide any evidence that supporting these garbage websites actually helps the creators of the shows we watch? |
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| Some people just cant afford anime so it's no loss for them to watch it for free. Plenty of legal purchased anime in no way goes to support the industry because it's resale. Also some people preview a product before buying it. To top things off word of mouth about an anime often spreads through people who watch it illegally so while they might not have bought it they convince several others to watch it who do buy it that otherwise would not have so in actuality it's free advertising and may increase rather than decrease profits. If they want to make money they need to do that via merchandise more. Anti-piracy only harms the people who need that extra entertainment some of the most, the lower income individuals. |
Kittens-kun said: if creators you mean by animator and mangaka, literaly little to none...Can you provide any evidence that supporting these garbage websites actually helps the creators of the shows we watch? http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/26-1/gintama-creator-comments-on-how-much-manga-authors-make-from-anime-adaptations most money goes to anime comitee producer and it is part of labourer (animator) contract how much they will get, not how much the series earn later on... that's just how anime industries works in general... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| So OP basically, you get ranted on discord and then you come here on MAL to get your shit together ? Or is this just an advert for discord ? |
 |
Kuma said: Kittens-kun said: if creators you mean by animator and mangaka, literaly little to none...Can you provide any evidence that supporting these garbage websites actually helps the creators of the shows we watch? http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/26-1/gintama-creator-comments-on-how-much-manga-authors-make-from-anime-adaptations most money goes to anime comitee producer and it is part of labourer (animator) contract how much they will get, not how much the series earn later on... that's just how anime industries works in general... And that's not a problem to you? I thought the whole point of these legal sites was "support the creators"? You literally just said yourself that they/we really AREN'T supporting jack shit. |
|
Kittens-kun said: Kuma said: if creators you mean by animator and mangaka, literaly little to none... http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/26-1/gintama-creator-comments-on-how-much-manga-authors-make-from-anime-adaptations most money goes to anime comitee producer and it is part of labourer (animator) contract how much they will get, not how much the series earn later on... that's just how anime industries works in general... And that's not a problem to you? I thought the whole point of these legal sites was "support the creators"? You literally just said yourself that they/we really AREN'T supporting jack shit. it is japanese problem and streaming site can't do shit other than complain.. netflix even prefer funding their own anime then licence it... but legal streaming still given money to industries (which in here pruduction comitee) while illegal streamers even stole from fansub, let alone pay to industries... it's nothing different than you buy BD or merchendise or any legal thing, since they goes to production comitee most of times... |
KumaAug 20, 2017 12:32 AM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Manaban said: What a silly argument considering Amazon Prime and NF have the lion's share of the anime worth watching this season.wait a fucking minute  how the fuck is this guy releasing his thoughts on kakegurui when it isn't even being released legally until a much later date because of netflix shenanigans  why he gotta be supporting illegal services man it's illegal he should wait until 2018 and make a video about it when it comes out legally  rather than watching anime that netflix is paying to license and translate illegally |
| If you can't pay for monthly subscription to support your fave anime legally because it's too pricey and the license prohibits you from watching it on your country: buy the original merch instead. Honestly, there are a lot of ways to support anime industry, so defending that one can't support their fave anime is just a pathetic excuse. |
     "Maybe he's trying to take a shit, but the shit just won't come out." Captain Levi, 2014 (／^-^)／☆♪  ♪☆＼(^０^＼) |
Kittens-kun said: Kuma said: if creators you mean by animator and mangaka, literaly little to none... http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/11/26-1/gintama-creator-comments-on-how-much-manga-authors-make-from-anime-adaptations most money goes to anime comitee producer and it is part of labourer (animator) contract how much they will get, not how much the series earn later on... that's just how anime industries works in general... And that's not a problem to you? I thought the whole point of these legal sites was "support the creators"? You literally just said yourself that they/we really AREN'T supporting jack shit. You do know that if a producer doesn't get money from a series, it wont know you like a series and will stop producing a series. So fuck season 2 and anything like it in the genre am I right? Also fuck the animators who worked on it. Did you know that the animation director and character designer Tadashi Hiramatsu for Yuri on Ice actually won best animator this year? And his first work was key animating for Neon Genesis Evangelion (and he has worked on every single Evangelion) And he has worked on stuff like GITS and he has worked on lots and lots of things. Honestly they might as well have called it a life time achievement award. But, it took actually being #1 in BR sales which BTW people in the USA were buying too from Japan. lol. Yuri on Ice was the #1 most likely to be watched thing 1 hour after it was put out by Crunchyroll according to Crunchyroll.<--- meaning paid subscribers were high. It got a movie announcement not long after it was over. Mob Psycho 100 another popular show from last year got a season 2 announcement. Mob Pscyho which was made right after the success of One Punch Man. Just sayin. And has gotten several OVAs. |
Energetic-NovaAug 20, 2017 1:24 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| So many people riding their moral high horse in this thread. lol |
|
Kittens-kun said: So many people riding their moral high horse in this thread. lol so, asking for logical reasonable discussion is high horse moral? you are already accusing me that i already said is mere ad hominem since i am a pirate as well... can you give at least better counter argument? |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kittens-kun said: So many people riding their moral high horse in this thread. lol Tadashi Hiramatsu did the character designs for Parasyte. Are you saying you wouldn't want him to be recognized? And no. It is not a "moral high horse" to want Tadashi to finally be recognized after over 20 years in the industry after finally doing character designs on a series that sold. Parasyte anime didn't sell. :( *points out that Tadashi Hiramatsu worked on 3 things in your favorites* (GITS a 9 and FLCL an 8, and Yuri on Ice 8. wow Tadashi worked on those too. Ever consider actually putting an animator in your favorites?) |
Energetic-NovaAug 20, 2017 1:34 AM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Kuma said: Kittens-kun said: So many people riding their moral high horse in this thread. lol so, asking for logical reasonable discussion is high horse moral? you are already accusing me that i already said is mere ad hominem since i am a pirate as well... can you give at least better counter argument? Do I need a counter argument? They industry isn't getting better, so how are the legal sites helping? |
|
Kittens-kun said: Kuma said: so, asking for logical reasonable discussion is high horse moral? you are already accusing me that i already said is mere ad hominem since i am a pirate as well... can you give at least better counter argument? Do I need a counter argument? They industry isn't getting better, so how are the legal sites helping? https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1557694 The Association of Japanese Animations (AJA) published its annual industry report on September 30, auditing industry trends from 2015. The report estimates that the total value of the anime market grew to a high of 1,825.3 billion yen (about US$18.1 billion) in 2015, from 1,629.6 billion yen (about US$13.5 billion) in 2014; indicating an increase in revenue by 12% compared to last year's 10%. This marks six consecutive years of positive growth of the Japanese animation industry since 2010. In 2015, the AJA attributed the progressive outcome to upsurge in rights sales and commercialization of video distribution in China. This year, a 78.7% rise in the sales of Chinese streaming rights and a 68.2% growth in the live event category have been recorded by the AJA. The AJA is the industry organization delegating for animation studios and individuals involved in the animation field, which has been publishing annual reports since 2009. The full report can be purchased from the organization's official website for 6000 yen (about US$60). Past editions of its annual industry report (2016 edition pictured) are also available for download in Japanese and in English. http://aja.gr.jp/?wpdmdl=1005 In 2015, the number of contracts quadrupled and revenues increased significantly in the category of Overseas. Indeed, “Japanese animation industry proactively started engaging in overseas markets last year” as specified in Overseas Trends in the report. In 2015, Japanese animation distribution market via the Internet was 43.7 billion yen, increasing by 7.1% over the previous year. Although the market rapidly expanded since 2012 thanks to full‐scale dissemination of smart phones, it slowed down last year due to voluntary restraint of services and solicitation for paid contents by mobile carriers. On the other hand, investment by overseas platforms such as Netflix, Amazon and Chinese Internet distributors increased. It is likely the investments from overseas will exceed investment by domestic platforms in the near future. Probably the outline of the next business model will be revealed from 2015 to 2016 your point already false, to begin with... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Look, I can admit people who can buy lots of manga are better than me, that people who go vegan are better than me. And people who have beautiful collections that are so wonderful and vast and line their entire hallways are better than me. I don't see why people who full on pirate everything and don't pay a dime can't admit the same shit. but eh guess not. I am always impressed by someone with a lazer disc collection. Or has lots of figures. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Kuma said: Kittens-kun said: Do I need a counter argument? They industry isn't getting better, so how are the legal sites helping? https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1557694 The Association of Japanese Animations (AJA) published its annual industry report on September 30, auditing industry trends from 2015. The report estimates that the total value of the anime market grew to a high of 1,825.3 billion yen (about US$18.1 billion) in 2015, from 1,629.6 billion yen (about US$13.5 billion) in 2014; indicating an increase in revenue by 12% compared to last year's 10%. This marks six consecutive years of positive growth of the Japanese animation industry since 2010. In 2015, the AJA attributed the progressive outcome to upsurge in rights sales and commercialization of video distribution in China. This year, a 78.7% rise in the sales of Chinese streaming rights and a 68.2% growth in the live event category have been recorded by the AJA. The AJA is the industry organization delegating for animation studios and individuals involved in the animation field, which has been publishing annual reports since 2009. The full report can be purchased from the organization's official website for 6000 yen (about US$60). Past editions of its annual industry report (2016 edition pictured) are also available for download in Japanese and in English. http://aja.gr.jp/?wpdmdl=1005 In 2015, the number of contracts quadrupled and revenues increased significantly in the category of Overseas. Indeed, “Japanese animation industry proactively started engaging in overseas markets last year” as specified in Overseas Trends in the report. In 2015, Japanese animation distribution market via the Internet was 43.7 billion yen, increasing by 7.1% over the previous year. Although the market rapidly expanded since 2012 thanks to full‐scale dissemination of smart phones, it slowed down last year due to voluntary restraint of services and solicitation for paid contents by mobile carriers. On the other hand, investment by overseas platforms such as Netflix, Amazon and Chinese Internet distributors increased. It is likely the investments from overseas will exceed investment by domestic platforms in the near future. Probably the outline of the next business model will be revealed from 2015 to 2016 your point already false, to begin with... Still isn't telling me how my money is "supporting the creators" Oh wait, it isn't. Yeah, the indusrty is really growing and legal streaming sites are a big help. That must mean the animators are getting payed well huh? Oh wait, no they aren't. They still make minimum wage and even less in some cases. |
|
| I find CR quite convinient, I don't have complaints about their service at all. Legal restriction - CR unblocker I may not know how much of the money I pay CR goes to the industry, but I'm absolutely sure that from illegal streaming sites goes 0%. Merch you buy either way cause merch, other then 1$ key-chains or something, is not comparable to what you are paying for watching anime. Amazon is pure BS though, I wouldn't buy their service now out of principle. I can understand going illegal for stuff you can't find on legal sites, but that is for 1 watching, more than justifies buying it in any way available. The only thing that irritates me though is saying "I have no money for a streaming service". Did you finish elementary school?? You have time to waste on anime?? You have time to earn the damn 7 dollars a month. Do some chores and parents will probably give you that much. |
Rotton-Girl said: Look, I can admit people who can buy lots of manga are better than me, that people who go vegan are better than me. And people who have beautiful collections that are so wonderful and vast and line their entire hallways are better than me. I don't see why people who full on pirate everything and don't pay a dime can't admit the same shit. but eh guess not. I am always impressed by someone with a lazer disc collection. Or has lots of figures. Because they aren't better. Pretty simple. |
|
Erebus25 said: I find CR quite convinient, I don't have complaints about their service at all. Legal restriction - CR unblocker I may not know how much of the money I pay CR goes to the industry, but I'm absolutely sure that from illegal streaming sites goes 0%. Merch you buy either way cause merch, other then 1$ key-chains or something, is not comparable to what you are paying for watching anime. Amazon is pure BS though, I wouldn't buy their service now out of principle. I can understand going illegal for stuff you can't find on legal sites, but that is for 1 watching, more than justifies buying it in any way available. The only thing that irritates me though is saying "I have no money for a streaming service". Did you finish elementary school?? You have time to waste on anime?? You have time to earn the damn 7 dollars a month. Do some chores and parents will probably give you that much. Not all parents reward and circumstances vary. Seriously, it's pretty simple. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
Erebus25 said: I find CR quite convinient, I don't have complaints about their service at all. Legal restriction - CR unblocker I may not know how much of the money I pay CR goes to the industry, but I'm absolutely sure that from illegal streaming sites goes 0%. Merch you buy either way cause merch, other then 1$ key-chains or something, is not comparable to what you are paying for watching anime. Amazon is pure BS though, I wouldn't buy their service now out of principle. I can understand going illegal for stuff you can't find on legal sites, but that is for 1 watching, more than justifies buying it in any way available. The only thing that irritates me though is saying "I have no money for a streaming service". Did you finish elementary school?? You have time to waste on anime?? You have time to earn the damn 7 dollars a month. Do some chores and parents will probably give you that much. You need all the legal services available if you want to watch all the anime they have legally. CR has shows Netflix doesn't. Amazon has shows that CR doesn't. It's way more than 7$ bud. |
|
Swagernator said: So OP basically, you get ranted on discord and then you come here on MAL to get your shit together ? Or is this just an advert for discord ? Uh, this is more asking for thoughts on this subject. I love discussions and getting new perspectives. |
| Sincerely, from Scorpio. |
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