What should we do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYmKCRRbTIM First, let me just say in advance: I have no idea where to create this forum, so if I did do this in the wrong place, my apologies. Ok, so this YouTuber called AniNews made a video response to Dijibro's unique opinion on anime streaming services. This video is not biased (for the most part), and I think this highlights the truth behind the Anime Streaming landscape that stirs up a lot of controversy here in the anime community. This is a bit of an underground anime YouTuber, so I decided I would help his video reach those it needs, so we can have a bit more of a deeper understanding on how anime streaming works. I, personally, only support Chrunchyroll and watch the rest of my anime on KissAnime. I buy anime DVDs/Blu-Rays, and I DO NOT SUPPORT Anime Strike and Netflix. I also want to expand a little on a point made by AniNews, as in AnimeStrike and Netflix will ALWAYS get the bigger series for streaming purposes, because all the streaming services are bidding for the series they want, and it is common knowledge that Amazon and Netflix have bigger pockets than the others. However, we shouldn't be supporting bad business models, that is my opinion, at least. |
Draconix814Aug 16, 2017 6:37 AM
| If i only use legal streams i would never be able to watch my favorite anime shows. Other. |
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| Can you add the poll option: Digibro again! Anyway, what you showed isn't a data but a video of someone who presents the data. :/ Good thread title indeed. I almost report it as a spam thread... :/ |
_Ako_ said: Can you add the poll option: Digibro again! Anyway, what you showed isn't a data but a video of someone who presents the data. :/ Good thread title indeed. I almost report it as a spam thread... :/ Umm... Sorry? :/ Also, I can't add any other poll options after I already upload it. :/ |
| Netflix would be an option if they didn't delete/was forced to delete some of their anime over time. I could've legally streamed a lot of anime that were in Netflix but after a few weeks/months were gone |
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| I'm going to post the same thing here as I did in this thread over at AnimeSuki, because I really don't understand why everybody is so damn upset over all of this stuff. The consumer has more access to anime legally than ever before. In 1997, you could go to Blockbuster and rent a 2-episode VHS for about $3.99 for three days, which is $6.14 today. That means you had to pay over $6 for a 3-day window in which you could watch only two predetermined episodes of a single show. If you purchased a dubbed VHS with two episodes for $25 ($35 for subbed), you were effectively paying about $39.50 (about $54 subbed) today for unlimited access to only two predetermined episodes of a single show forever (or until the tape wore out). We had to wait for months, if not years, for some seasons to arrive legally in the West. Fansubbing had slow turnaround and you had to pay around $7 (today almost $11) for four episodes on a single VHS cassette. Granted, we did resort to lots of illegal methods, primarily dubbing VHS cassettes. Blank VHS cassettes usually came in 3-packs or 6-packs (about $5 and $9 respectively), so it was far more cost-effective to rent two VHS cassettes, hook two VCRs together and copy 4 episodes onto a single blank VHS tape. Quality was low, though, and copying fansubbed VHS tapes guaranteed even lower quality. It was a lot of work. Part of me feels like we have it made nowadays. Loads of anime is available for streaming and one month of Anime Strike, Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Crunchyroll subscription services amount to not much more than a two-episode VHS cassette subtitled after inflation. On top of that, when some of these VHS tapes were being sold back in the day, we had to wait months between two-episode releases. Yeah, the market has changed, but the only reason is it has changed is because mentalities have changed with the technology. My greatest frustration with the current distribution model is that it is difficult for me to legally stream any anime made before the year 2000 (like 1972's Devilman or Evangelion). That's about it. From my perspective, it has never been a better time to be an anime consumer with regards to distribution. The hobby costs way less today than it did when I was a teenager working part-time jobs just to buy one VHS a week. Everything is available at your fingertips for easy viewing. The downside is the physical distribution of media has suffered a bit. All my old VHS tapes are worthless (I don't have a VCR and they don't make them anymore). If I didn't get certain shows on DVD when they were available (like Evangelion), I have no means of legally watching them. This means I have to rebuy everything I once had or settle for watching them while they're licensed (which may be temporary) and never seeing them legally again while they're not. So yes, there are negatives to the current model. |
| > Netflix / Anime Strike is bad > watch the rest of my anime on KissAnime Facepalm.. If anything, kissanime is 100 times worse than Netflix/Anime Strike.. If you don't want to pay for anime, at least just download the torrents ffs.. Why bother giving ad revenue to shitty services like kissanime? <_< Yeah.. They way Netflix streams anime sucks.. While the content might be good, They just don't understand how seasonal anime works.. So yeah, they need to change their anime related service asap.. :/ So yep. I'm still sticking with CR, HIDive and Torrents.. |
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| Point 2: kek Anime is a global industry therefore requires a global business model but instead lets focus on North America. NA is not the center of the world.Amazon is expanding its prime video service globally but I don't know how much is actually available everywhere. Furthermore I already have a prime account since it offers nice perks that I use very often so the upgrade to Anime Strike is not a paywall to me. Netflix seems to be trying to buy global license when possible so even if their anime library is rather small you know what you get, also it will increase with time as they will likely continue to buy the license to most hyped shows every season. Moreover I would get all kinds of shows available with their subscription, not only anime. If I were to buy a subscription it would probably be Netflix. People complain that Netflix doesn't simulcast, oh well too bad for you but since watching anime seasonally sucks I prefer binge watching. Crunchyroll seems the worst of the three, it focuses only on North America. I am looking at the simulcast list on normal page and with a NA proxy server but on the normal list I am missing Katsugeki TOUKEN RANBU, OWARIMONOGATARI and Boku no Hero Academia, some of the most popular shows of the season and the main reason I would subscribe to them if I actually liked those shows. Talking about bad business practices you call Amazon a bad business practice when you probably have no idea of the Loss Leader Strategy that made Amazon and Walmart the huge companies they are today. Running at a loss is not necessarily a bad business practice if there is enough cash flow. I agree that we shouldn't support bad business strategies but for me the one that has the bad strategy is Crunchyroll. Torrents > Kissanime |
zalAug 16, 2017 11:51 AM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Funds, Funds, funds for least pirate sites out there.. Why bother THO >I couldn't even care less about the production |
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
zal said: Point 2: kek Anime is a global industry therefore requires a global business model but instead lets focus on North America. NA is not the center of the world.Amazon is expanding its prime video service globally but I don't know how much is actually available everywhere. Furthermore I already have a prime account since it offers nice perks that I use very often so the upgrade to Anime Strike is not a paywall to me. Netflix seems to be trying to buy global license when possible so even if their anime library is rather small you know what you get, also it will increase with time as they will likely continue to buy the license to most hyped shows every season. Moreover I would get all kinds of shows available with their subscription, not only anime. If I were to buy a subscription it would probably be Netflix. People complain that Netflix doesn't simulcast, oh well too bad for you but since watching anime seasonally sucks I prefer binge watching. Crunchyroll seems the worst of the three, it focuses only on North America. I am looking at the simulcast list on normal page and with a NA proxy server but on the normal list I am missing Katsugeki TOUKEN RANBU, OWARIMONOGATARI and Boku no Hero Academia, some of the most popular shows of the season and the main reason I would subscribe to them if I actually liked those shows. Talking about bad business practices you call Amazon a bad business practice when you probably have no idea of the Loss Leader Strategy that made Amazon and Walmart the huge companies they are today. Running at a loss is not necessarily a bad business practice if there is enough cash flow. I agree that we shouldn't support bad business strategies but for me the one that has the bad strategy is Crunchyroll. Torrents > Kissanime good points but you guys realize thos limitation is set by japan company it self rather than licencor buyers (which is streaming site, i think it affected the price they had to pay) because japan company want licencing money, right? just like recent sentai refuse oversea disc buyers.... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| if you are going to pirate then just torrent or XDCC to not give profit from this illegal streaming sites that steal supposedly free stuff coming from fansubbers and webrippers like horriblesubs (and fansubbers and webrippers that are the true robin hood only runs on donations anyway) torrenting/XDCC is the lesser evil of pirating anime |
Tomislavr7 said: My point about Crunchyroll is that among those new shows where its appeal lies in the most hyped/popular ones are not available in my country. The reason I called Crunchyroll's model bad is because of the premise the youtuber makes in point 2:zal said: Netflix seems to be trying to buy global license when possible so even if their anime library is rather small you know what you get, also it will increase with time as they will likely continue to buy the license to most hyped shows every season. Moreover I would get all kinds of shows available with their subscription, not only anime. If I were to buy a subscription it would probably be Netflix. People complain that Netflix doesn't simulcast, oh well too bad for you but since watching anime seasonally sucks I prefer binge watching. I also think Netflix will become a good option even for those who primarily watch anime as it keeps expanding its library. The originals seem like a nice idea (they should be available for a long time and in many countries) and it's really nice for not-weekly watching, which I highly prefer over weekly. For Amazon, I don't use Prime and I don't know how available their shows are in other countries. I think they should allow for some more direct options, though (just have an anime-only platform and give discount through Prime or something). And Crunchyroll is fine for those who only care about new shows, since they don't seem to have much of a selection outside a few countries otherwise. I think they're more of a platform you and I don't care about rather than one doing business poorly. The rest of the platforms focus only on a few countries, too. I also like the future possibility of those such as Steam having the digital download option, since I believe it to be the better version of buying DVDs/BDs and it might be able to bring more options with older shows. Cheers. Anime is a global industry therefore requires a global business model which is exactly what only Crunchyroll fails at doing while Amazon is trying to do it by expanding their services (in my country there was no prime TV so last year I couldn't watch Koutetsujou no Kabaneri legally even if those with amazon prime could in the USA. Only recently I received a card regarding prime TV here so they did expand/are expanding in an attempt to make it global). Crunchyroll's model is not necessarily universally bad, time will tell, but after the video says that the anime industry needs a global model it seems contradicting not calling Crunchy's regional model bad, limited of whatever. I heard that Netflix allows the download of their shows on Windows 8, which (despite what people think of windows 8) is damn great for online streaming services. Also hopefully the Netflix model of releasing the shows in one go will decrease the animation errors of the airing shows (at least for their own shows) instead of having to wait for the DVD/Blu ray. |
zalAug 17, 2017 1:35 AM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| this might concern you OP Film Critic Responds to Netflix's Rise in Japan http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/interest/2017-08-16/film-critic-responds-to-netflix-rise-in-japan/.119931 |
zal said: Tomislavr7 said: My point about Crunchyroll is that among those new shows where its appeal lies in the most hyped/popular ones are not available in my country. The reason I called Crunchyroll's model bad is because of the premise the youtuber makes in point 2:I also think Netflix will become a good option even for those who primarily watch anime as it keeps expanding its library. The originals seem like a nice idea (they should be available for a long time and in many countries) and it's really nice for not-weekly watching, which I highly prefer over weekly. For Amazon, I don't use Prime and I don't know how available their shows are in other countries. I think they should allow for some more direct options, though (just have an anime-only platform and give discount through Prime or something). And Crunchyroll is fine for those who only care about new shows, since they don't seem to have much of a selection outside a few countries otherwise. I think they're more of a platform you and I don't care about rather than one doing business poorly. The rest of the platforms focus only on a few countries, too. I also like the future possibility of those such as Steam having the digital download option, since I believe it to be the better version of buying DVDs/BDs and it might be able to bring more options with older shows. Cheers. Anime is a global industry therefore requires a global business model which is exactly what only Crunchyroll fails at doing while Amazon is trying to do it by expanding their services (in my country there was no prime TV so last year I couldn't watch Koutetsujou no Kabaneri legally even if those with amazon prime could in the USA. Only recently I received a card regarding prime TV here so they did expand/are expanding in an attempt to make it global). Crunchyroll's model is not necessarily universally bad, time will tell, but after the video says that the anime industry needs a global model it seems contradicting not calling Crunchy's regional model bad, limited of whatever. I heard that Netflix allows the download of their shows on Windows 8, which (despite what people think of windows 8) is damn great for online streaming services. Also hopefully the Netflix model of releasing the shows in one go will decrease the animation errors of the airing shows (at least for their own shows) instead of having to wait for the DVD/Blu ray. While it kinda sucks to wait long for a series, it would be worth it if it got bingereleased in full complete indeed. But there is one thing that I have to explain to you about CR. CR Doesn't stream only shows where they have the License of. They also stream shows where they don't have the license from and thus CR has to obey to the rules of the licensors of these shows. Like Boku no Hero for example is Licensed by Funimation and Funimations License is NA only. CR's own license covers quite a lot of regions (America and Europe and etc except for asia for some reason). So the big issue with CR is that many other licensors have the regional model. And then there is the fact that CR is small in comparison to Netflix and Amazon. |
Fvlminatvs said: I'm going to post the same thing here as I did in this thread over at AnimeSuki, because I really don't understand why everybody is so damn upset over all of this stuff. The consumer has more access to anime legally than ever before. In 1997, you could go to Blockbuster and rent a 2-episode VHS for about $3.99 for three days, which is $6.14 today. That means you had to pay over $6 for a 3-day window in which you could watch only two predetermined episodes of a single show. If you purchased a dubbed VHS with two episodes for $25 ($35 for subbed), you were effectively paying about $39.50 (about $54 subbed) today for unlimited access to only two predetermined episodes of a single show forever (or until the tape wore out). We had to wait for months, if not years, for some seasons to arrive legally in the West. Fansubbing had slow turnaround and you had to pay around $7 (today almost $11) for four episodes on a single VHS cassette. Granted, we did resort to lots of illegal methods, primarily dubbing VHS cassettes. Blank VHS cassettes usually came in 3-packs or 6-packs (about $5 and $9 respectively), so it was far more cost-effective to rent two VHS cassettes, hook two VCRs together and copy 4 episodes onto a single blank VHS tape. Quality was low, though, and copying fansubbed VHS tapes guaranteed even lower quality. It was a lot of work. Part of me feels like we have it made nowadays. Loads of anime is available for streaming and one month of Anime Strike, Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Crunchyroll subscription services amount to not much more than a two-episode VHS cassette subtitled after inflation. On top of that, when some of these VHS tapes were being sold back in the day, we had to wait months between two-episode releases. Yeah, the market has changed, but the only reason is it has changed is because mentalities have changed with the technology. My greatest frustration with the current distribution model is that it is difficult for me to legally stream any anime made before the year 2000 (like 1972's Devilman or Evangelion). That's about it. From my perspective, it has never been a better time to be an anime consumer with regards to distribution. The hobby costs way less today than it did when I was a teenager working part-time jobs just to buy one VHS a week. Everything is available at your fingertips for easy viewing. The downside is the physical distribution of media has suffered a bit. All my old VHS tapes are worthless (I don't have a VCR and they don't make them anymore). If I didn't get certain shows on DVD when they were available (like Evangelion), I have no means of legally watching them. This means I have to rebuy everything I once had or settle for watching them while they're licensed (which may be temporary) and never seeing them legally again while they're not. So yes, there are negatives to the current model. People are upset because for the past five years or so, things have been exceptionally cushioned and cheap. A Crunchyroll membership pretty much guaranteed you access to the hottest anime. Now they're being forced into at least two different subscriptions (Prime and Anime Strike), and have to deal with whether to be late to the party and watch something legally on Netflix or just pirate it and be able to discuss it while people still care. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
j0x said: this might concern you OP Film Critic Responds to Netflix's Rise in Japan http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/interest/2017-08-16/film-critic-responds-to-netflix-rise-in-japan/.119931 the coment is interesting, in other hand, they criticaly him for grossly misinformated and exagrating, but at the same time, it's reaks of hope investment as well better production comitee model since netflix solely stakeholder with less conflict of interest in it... however, it still risky since money doesn't automaticaly goes to anime quality and animator... well, time surely will answer... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| My takeaway from the article above is that, in general, the funding Netflix could provide anime studios dwarfs that of most anime production committees. This means that native Japanese committees would have to be more willing to risk larger sums of money in order to fund content and compete with Netflix for a piece of the pie. At the same time, the Japanese could come to resent the foreign influence and try to shut Netflix out. Foreign companies sitting in on Japanese production committees could be a good or bad thing. Netflix seems to have a rather "hands-off" approach, I think. I could be wrong but they appear to give money to creative teams and let them make their shows without meddling. Amazon appears to be doing the same thing (see shows the The Grand Tour, where they give Hammond, May, and Clarkson more creative control than the BBC did). At the same time, Cartoon Network's meddling with Fooly Cooly seasons 2 and 3 could be a sign that Western involvement means focus-tested mediocrity of the Western variety. Again, I could be wrong but I think Netflix and Amazon are more likely to fund shows and let the creators do what they do best without much intervention. |
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