Altair: A Record of Battles
| Some of you folks are confused what is what and who is who, so i will try my best to explain it: -Although Shoukoku no Altair is completely fictitious and have its own course of story, its heavily inspired by Ottoman-Habsburg wars in 15-16th centuries. -In real life Mahmut, Zaganos, and Halil Pashas are all existed and served as Grand Vizier to Fatih Sultan Mehmet. Hence why Büyük Pasha looks like him. Mahmut and Zaganos Pasha were kind of rivals in real life too. -Rumeliana the name of the fictional Europe in SnA, derives from Rumeli, a Turkish word for describe "The Land of the Romans" Seljuks first used it for Anatolia, but then Ottomans started to use that term for the lands that they conquered in Europe . -Map of Rumeliana:  -Türkiye Pashadom/Stratocracy is inspired from the Ottomans, Once a small Turkish Beylik (Duchy) in Anatolia then later to be Empire spanned across 3 continents. Founded by ruler named Osman/Atman/Ataman bey. -About Tughrul Clan, Judging from their expertise at handling the Eagles, and being semi-nomadic, i guess they are inspired mostly from Turkmen tribes that resided in Ottoman Empire. And here is some bonus trivia: Tughrul is the name of mythical mighty eagle that features in Turkic and Hungarian mythologies. It's also name of the founder of the Seljuk Empire, (Tughrul bey) and the father of the Osman bey, Ertughrul ghazi. -Despite some people think Araba based off from the Arabs, Araba tribe is actually based off from the Romani(Gypsy) people.Reason why their tribe named "Araba" is that it means "Cart" in Turkish, and Romani people were nomads back then thus they travelled and lived in carts. -Phoenician Empire is loosely based off from both Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire and Phoenicia that existed in real life. -Bıçak(Knife), Mızrak(Spear), Kılıç(Sword), Balta(Axe) Sultanates are vassals of Turkish Pashadom. They are obligated to form Greater Türkiye once country is in State of War. Inspired from the other Turkish Beyliks in Anatolia. -Balt and Rhein Empire is inspired from Habsburgian Empire, a German/Austrian empire that was a prominent European power and had rivalry with the Ottomans. Though name "Balt-Rhein" also suggest that they could also be inspired from the Hohenzollern German/Prussian Empire, however during 19th century they maintained cordial relations with Ottomans due to Austria being Germany's rival at the time. -Venedik, aka Venice Was a prominent merchant republic in Italy in real life. Had a one of the most powerful armadas in the mediterranean. -Urado inspired from the Vlad Tepes' Wallachia (Romania). -Cuore de Rumeliana inspired from Italian city states league. Some Meanings that might you interested in: -Divan: Council in Turkish -Kubbealtı: Means "Under the Dome" in Turkish. Some characters will use in Altair will use that word to refer Divan. However the Sub translation itself left out or got mistranslated. -Altın: Capital of the Turkish Pashadom. Means "Gold" in Turkish -Mücehver: Means Jewel. It also name of the capital of the Bıçak Sultanate St. Michael: Capital of the Balt-Rhein Empire. -Zira: A measurement system once Turkics used. 1 Zira equals to between 50 to 75cm. Sub translator mistranslated as "Zilla". -Pasha: Was a title of General or Senior Officer in the Ottoman Empire. However title itself abolished when republic proclaimed, though it's still used as honorific/symbolic title to refer distinguished military officers today. -Binbaşı: Head of 1000. Equals to Major. -Yüzbaşı: Head of 100. Equals to Captain. -Onbaşı: Head of the 10. Equals to Corporal. -Er/Çeri: Soldier, Private. -Vali: Mayor in Turkish -Bey: Derives from old Turkic "Beg". Means "Sir", "Lord" or "Duke". However it could also be used as "Mister" (Bay). -Beylerbey: Means Bey of Beys, usually it's a title that given to Administrators of the Regions in Turkish Khanates. It also can be used also referring the Turkish princes. -Beyoğlu: "Means Son of the Bey". -Alay: Regiment -Ak: White -Mavi: Blue -Al-Kaplan: Red Tiger -Doge: Elected ruler in the Italian Merchant Republics. -Devshirme system: A system where young males from balkans gets drafted then converted to Islam. They trained to be either bureucrat, administrator, scholar, or soldier depending on its skill. In Shoukoku no Altair, everyone can join Devshirme if one wants to become a Pasha, such as Mahmut. -Hisar means "Fortress" or "Citadel" in Turkish. -Janissary/Yeniçeri: Elite soldiers that drafted at young age through Devshirme system in real life.They were only loyal to Padishah (Ottoman Emperor) but in SnA other turkish factions has its own Yeniçeris with Mızrak ones are being most prominent one. -Sipahi: Equilevant of the Knight in the Ottomans -Khan: Equilevant of King in Turkics and Mongols. -Khaghan: Equilevant of Emperor in Turkics and Mongols. -Khanum/Hanım: Wife of Khan, aka Queen.However, it also means "lady" in Turkish. -Khatun: Wife of Khaghan -Sultan: Equilevant of King in Muslim Monarchies -Sultana: Title of wife and daughters of the Padishah (Emperor) in the Ottoman Empire. -Shahzade: Equilevant of Prince in Ottoman and Persian Empires. -Silahtar: Means Weaponmaster. In Ottoman Empire, title itself were given to senior bodyguards of Sultans, Viziers, and Royal Family. -Şark yay: Name of the Musket, means "Eastern Bow". -Ghazi: A warrior who goes to Jihad, Today it's used to refer veterans in the Turkey. -Ulema: A Scholar. Will update the list as story progresses. If you have any questions, feel free to ask it! |
OttomanKebabSep 29, 2017 3:21 PM
| Thank you so much this really helped me understand the language used in the show. Side note- how did you know all this? 😂 |
| I was honsetly surprised that some people don't know what pasha is. Like throughout history this very title was associated with famous historical Turkish generals and leaders and I'm sure people encountered it in their history class yet no one bothered to know or ask . Personally, I know that Lebanon has a strong history with Ottoman empire and what Jamal pasha did back in the early 1900's and I studied in school history concerning the ottoman empire. |
Shishou_23Jul 17, 2017 1:45 PM
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DragonSlayer_19 said: I was honsetly surprised that some people don't know what pasha is. Like throughout history this very title was associated with famous historical Turkish generals and leaders and I'm sure people encountered it in their history class yet no one bothered to know or ask . Personally, I know that Lebanon has a strong history with Ottoman empire and what Jamal pasha did back in the early 1900's and I studied in school history concerning the ottoman empire. I'm still amazed that people are apparently incapable of doing a brief Wikipedia search... |
| Wow! Thanks for this! |
| Zehir: poison in Turkish. |
| On the names and their meanings: - Shehir Khalil - Şehir means city or town in Turkish - Halil is a generic Turkish name - Zehir Zaganos - Zehir means poison - Zağanos is a historical name. - Tughril Mahmut - Tuğrul is a species of bird and also some kind of phoenix in Turkish mythology - Mahmut is a generic name - Shapka Ibrahim - Şapka means hat - İbrahim is a generic Turkish name - Buyuk Pasha - Buyuk means great - This person is probably equivalent to the Sultan in the Ottoman Empire and Buyuk Pasha is his title, we do not know his real name - İskender - İskender is how we pronounce Alexander the Great's name. It can be used as a name for boys By the way this is tea:  Or "Çay" (Chai) as we call it. We Turks consume unhealthy amounts of it. |
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SirKurt said: On the names and their meanings: - Tughril Mahmut - Tuğrul is a species of bird and also some kind of phoenix in Turkish mythology - Mahmut is a generic name - Shapka Ibrahim - Şapka means hat - İbrahim is a generic Turkish name İbrahim is Islamic version of Abraham. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_in_Islam Mahmut is a Arabic-rooted name. It means praised, praisable. It is also one of the names of prophet Muhammad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud |
SirKurt said: Buyuk Pasha - Buyuk means great - This person is probably equivalent to the Sultan in the Ottoman Empire and Buyuk Pasha is his title, we do not know his real name I believe that the Chief Pasha is actually called Burak (a Turkish male name) and that Buyuk is a mistranslation... The reason is that in the manga we have the country of Buyuk Turkiye, or Greater Turkiye, and the furigana for the two words (his name, and the country's name) are different. ビュラク (Byuraku) = Burak (Pasha) ビルリキ (Biruriki) = Buyuk (Turkiye) |
m0gJul 23, 2017 5:40 AM
I rewatched the first episode and I think you are right that they do not actually call him Buyuk. I wonder why not just ブラク (Buraku) if it is meant to be Burak. Also I cannot find any historical reference to anyone called Burak Pasha. Edit:  Text reads 大将軍 (Daishogun) (Great General) and 大 literally translates to Büyük. |
OonokamiJul 23, 2017 6:51 AM
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SirKurt said: I rewatched the first episode and I think you are right that they do not actually call him Buyuk. I wonder why not just ブラク (Buraku) if it is meant to be Burak. Also I cannot find any historical reference to anyone called Burak Pasha. Not all the Pashas are based on historical figures :) |
| Very good thread. Thank you. |
| But why would they use the exact same kanji and completely different kana for Buyuk (大) Turkiye? His title can be Great Pasha and his name can still be Burak. |
| More info from episode 4: Göz: Eye Kulak: Ear Göz kulak: Can mean 'to overwatch' or 'to protect' when written together. Pretty neat name for a spy network if you ask me. Başkan: President or chief Kara: Black Kanat: Wing Kara Kanat: Black Wings (duh) Süleyman: Arabic name, equivalent of Solomon Barbaros: Name of the famous Ottoman navy admiral, wasted on a small character if you ask me. Before 1934, people in Turkey did not have surnames required by law. So they were aliased by their traits, feats, appearance, father's name, clan' name, or other things. That is why every Turkish character has a meaningful label before their name. |
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| Really interesting read even though I already knew 90% of the meanings being an Arab. But amazing effort! |
Raw_yogurt said: I didn't say the words were Arabic. Being an Arab most likely means you know these words cause they're commonly used between themRaz1515 said: Really interesting read even though I already knew 90% of the meanings being an Arab. Not really. Most of the words up there actually Turkish with some Farsi(Persian), Italian/Latin and Arabic. |
| Many trivia on the latest episode. I can guess how hard it is to follow for non-Turkish people. I have seen many mistakes in the HorribleSubs and wanted to clarify for everyone else. I am going to write what I remember for the record. Bear with me: - Sultanlu (written Sultanlık in Turkish): Sultanate - a state or country governed by a sultan - Mızrak: Spear - Kuluch (written Kılıç in Turkish): Sword - Balta: Axe - Bechke (very poor translation, written Bıçak in Turkish): Dagger or Knife - Tesisat-Kapi: Interesting name even for me. Kanji written means water gate. "Tesisat" itself means "system". Can be water system. "Kapı" means gate or door. - Liman: Means "seaport". Used as the city's name here. - Silahtar: Can mean Weapon master or armorer - Beyoğlu: Son of bey. Can loosely mean "prince". - Hanım: Miss, Mistress - Yenicheri (Yeniçeri): Janissary, elite troops of Ottoman Empire - Armut: Pear - Selim, Fatma, Ayşe are very generic names. "Uzun" means "tall". "Sarucha" (Salça) means "tomato paste". Beyazit and Selim are names of famous Ottoman Sultans. Balaban is an obscure word. |
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| Another mistake - his name's Saruca, called after a historical pasha. |
| From Episode 10: Mujher: (Actually Mücevher) Jewel Djinn: (Written as Cin in Turkish, read as Jin) A scary figure in Turkish/Islamic belief. So scary, even mentioning it is enough to turn people away from you, end friendships, summon the abmyssmal soul of zalgo linto our plane of existence, destr-...... Well, if you have to mention them no matter what, we call them "Three letters". Because there is a belief that even mentioning them will summon one next to you. Shark: (Şark in Turkish) East. Yay: Bow Şark yay: Means "eastern bow" I guess. Probably there was a time guns were referred as this. Because guns were invented in China. We don't user this wording anymore. Orhan: Name of the second Sultan of Ottoman Empire. Also a popular name. İsmail: A generic name Birlik: Union m0g said: Another mistake - his name's Saruca, called after a historical pasha. Thanks. Sarıca Pasha: A pasha that served the Ottoman Empire in the same time about Zaganos pasha and Halil pasha. Sarıca means "yellowish". |
OonokamiSep 16, 2017 2:48 AM
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| woah. What a nice information you got there. Really helpful. I read the manga version, very fascinating works though they're just fictitious. The translating group also did a great job to translate moreover with the confused stuff as well the side notes at the end of the every chapters such as given the real information of the real world story. This anime/manga really amazing and worth for the top. Though outside from the Japan this manga was less popular but in Japan, it were booom the popularity. Well, not everyone have the same tastes. Just enjoy any what kind of you liking. |
| From Episode 13: - Kemal: A generic male name. - Cassim (Kasım): A generic male name. It means November. - Nilüfer: A female name. It means lotus. - Kayut (Actually kayıt): Means record.Great pasha uses it to mean "Let it be recorded, ...." or something like that. |
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| so......recently up until now there is some (I mean Lot) of unpredictability name change. Map of Rumeliana or apparently what they call it now is Rumeriana Turkiye or Torqye?. I'm lost....Why they keep name change? I like Kotono's better. |
DEUS VULT! Let's bring some gunpowder firearms   |
Sevenman2345 said: so......recently up until now there is some (I mean Lot) of unpredictability name change. Map of Rumeliana or apparently what they call it now is Rumeriana Turkiye or Torqye?. I'm lost....Why they keep name change? I like Kotono's better. Just to confuse you more: Türkiye: How we spell Turkey in Turkish language. Read as written. Turkiye: Romanized "Türkiye", it is not an actual word in any language afaik. Turkey: English word for Turkey, duh. Toruko: Means Turkey in Japanese when written in Katakana. Read as written. Torukiye: (Kotono's, written in Katakana) Closest japanese spelling to how we Turks say "Türkiye". Read as written. Torqye: English made up word by subbers. You read it as "Torkiye". |
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| While the real world places and people SnA draws parallels to are interesting, as someone who's interested in history enough to look at more than a few maps and names on a wiki article this show commits the same sin most fictional works seem perpetually marred by: nonsensical depiction of war. It's true the Ottomans historically had their origins found among nomadic tribes, and of course the show never ceases to remind the viewer at every turn about the same origins of the essentially-Turkish peoples of SnA, but by the time the Ottomans existed as an entity on a map they had long since become settled down. Despite maintaining strong cavalry traditions the Ottoman Empire of history was won not by a horde of predominantly light cavalrymen that inexplicably defeat everything infront of them, but rather the janissary corps that was among the forces trampled in the show rather effortlessly by our Turkish-analogue protagonists. The issue of how capable cavalry is on a battlefield, and the very history of cavalry with which to draw upon endless historical evidence, simply cannot be covered in detail with a brief comment such as this, though it's sufficient to say real world army compositions did not reflect those depicted in the show. From the dawn of human history, no matter how sidelined and lacking glorification, the bread and butter of armies has been infantry. A principle which remains even to this day, in an era where cities can be flattened without ever having to come close to bring such firepower to bear. To have infantry so whimsically peddled as highly situational and largely inconsequential clowns on the battlefield is painful to watch. I mean really, a janissary corps of bishonen that couldn't hit someone with the right edge of their sword if their lives counted on it just... defies explanation. You end up with a end product that largely reverses the roles of the two forms of combatants in classical formation battles. While they look nice on screen, whether rendered in live-action, CGI, or animation, a blob of people on horses can only do so much before things like rough terrain, a big fucking wall, or a myriad of other things, renders the presence of those horses a disadvantageous aspect of those troops. Certainly pitting them against a largely homogeneous professional infantry force would be a task far from easy, to compound that with one that is blatantly a fusion of Roman legionaries and Hellenic phalangites, encased in a smattering of late-medieval armour, odds are getting pretty bad. With a full panoply that stretches how believable it can be by being entirely comprised of the heaviest things you can reasonably expect someone to fight in/with, those Balt-Rhein cannon fodder make most historical heavy infantry look like worthless meatshields. Putting that aside, they're even drilled to the point of perfection it would seem, and are organized in an extremely modern fashion that far outstrips the organizational abilities of late-medieval and early-renaissance armies. That's a fighting force the historical Habsburgs lacked entirely and would likely sell their souls to acquire. What you're left with is the anime equivalent of Space Marines in a sword-and-shield setting being defeated by an equal (often lesser) number of blind cripples using spitballs while riding on retarded donkeys. There's much and more to be said for why this is the case, but most of it can be discerned by quickly skimming through the history of cavalry in battlefield engagements. What they did work against, what they didn't work against, how they had to be employed in order to achieve those successes and failures, all have parallels found that remain consistent even in locations far removed from one another and persisting in the use of cavalry throughout the ages. Pikes, such as those the endless supply of Balt-Rhein fodder wield, are among the few overtly evident weapons that are the bane of cavalry. This and many other things found in the show regarding the endless martial aspects such a narrative stand out more than they should. If you have any topic in which you have ample knowledge on or is your field of expertise, you probably know what it feels like to watch a movie, TV show, or even just listen to the conversation of someone, and simply cannot help but notice they do not know what they're talking about. Everything from jargon being thrown around incorrectly to "what the fuck?" egregiously inaccurate portrayal/explanation of how something functions or how a task is carried out, it just sticks out like a sore thumb from any work of fiction, especially ones that are reminiscent of historical-fiction more than true fantasy/sci-fi that have less restrictive "rules" by which they can be reasonably expected to follow. |
LawLx2Dec 22, 2017 4:41 PM
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