Seikaisuru Kado Episode 12 Discussion
Jun 30, 2017 11:32 AM
Jun 30, 2017 11:35 AM
Jun 30, 2017 11:49 AM
Jun 30, 2017 12:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Oh well at least they went all in. They didn't want to end it in a simple way (some sparring, then talking, then ZaShunina leaving or something like that) and i respect that. If you began destroying a perfectly good and interesting idea, then go all the way to make it the most cringy and stupid ending that you could ever think of, because the show is already beyond saving anyway. Not that i expected anything good of the show's finale after it went downhill, but at least it wasn't boring.
The most disappointing anime series of 2017 for me so far and it will remain as the show that destroyed my faith in Toei.
Modified by Denireno, Jun 30, 2017 12:20 PM
Jun 30, 2017 12:39 PM
Jun 30, 2017 12:56 PM
Jun 30, 2017 12:58 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Trainwreck/10. This makes Mayoiga look like a masterpiece.
LOl rarely do i see smeone mention Mayoiga in 2017. I agree Mayoiga is a materpiece compared to Kado... Really what the hell was that final episode...
FROM being Scifi political anime that requires you to think it got into some kind of Mahou shoujo stuff :D
Also studio was basically saying GET REKT fujiyoshis RIp Shindo Zashunina. OTP is Shindo x Saraka
Jun 30, 2017 1:05 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:07 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:16 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:21 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:27 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Probably the worst ending that could've happened. Depending on if there is second season (i presume there is not) there is some space for it to excuse itself.
I expected this series to end with zaShunina becoming a human like Saraka did. He would live in limited world, but would have unlimited information.
Modified by TokyoNight, Jul 2, 2017 6:58 PM
Jun 30, 2017 1:49 PM
Jun 30, 2017 2:00 PM
Jun 30, 2017 2:24 PM
Jun 30, 2017 2:25 PM
Jun 30, 2017 2:58 PM
Jun 30, 2017 3:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Shido and Saraka are legitimate sociopaths.
zaShunina was the purest maiden.
Hanamori's fate was just mean.
Comedy of the year and best "lolwut" moments since Guilottine Gorilla.
Liked it because Samurai Flamenco is fundamental.
Otherwise you are wrong and this series is also too advanced for the average viewer. It does give everyone the right answer, and ultimately everyone is happy.
U just cant process it! The information is beyond u hahahahahaaaa!!
May you get there though. Best wishes to everyone.
Jun 30, 2017 3:24 PM
Jun 30, 2017 3:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
There is tremendous value in the series either way. (Not even saying it could not have ended any other way and still be integral and coherent). The pretense that this was a simply talking-science-fiction busted loudly with the appearance of the (higher being behind the existence of humanity) second ani-being... Most people were content and did not even think it would turn out that way. But when it did, "Booo worthless, booo not how I would make it"... Foolish. There is tremendous value in the series even if you simply follow masses reacting. I approve.
Jun 30, 2017 3:46 PM
Jun 30, 2017 3:56 PM
Jun 30, 2017 4:09 PM
Jun 30, 2017 4:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
I admit, the ending could be worse, solving everything on an ilogical and pointless DBZ style battle. But, it's still terrible. A lot of things gone unexplained.
ZaShunina going full emotional in just 2 episodes makes no sense. His yandere conclusion "I can't have you, so I'll kill you" had both no logical nor emotional embasement.
Also, Shindo's death was probably to shock the public, but the setting for his death was poor, and it had no point at all, since his daughter was so OP, and time could be altered at will by Saraka, Shindo's death was completely pointless.
The devices stopped working for no reason after Kado was gone. When they said Kado was linked to the devices? Humanity wasn't taught how to make them, so they didn't need to rely on anisotropic to produce Wam?
Introducing a new character would be a good idea, if she wasn't introduced in a rush and thrown out at the same speed. Felt like "QUICKLY, WE NEED TO END THE SHOW ON EP 12, WE NEED A FAST SOLUTION, ANYTHING!" and that how she was born. Also, the concept isn't quite right. If the point is the union of anisotropic power and human individuality, then Saraka and ZaShunina should be equally OP, because when they "descended" to the human world, they eventually developed this individuality, wich ZaShunina explicity manifested. So, what exactly make the anisotropic-human daughter so OP again? We'll never know.
The romance between Saraka and Shindo is something that was discussed on episode 10, I don't need to rectify how terrible that was.
I think I'm missing many more things that have gone unexplained or without embasement, but I will stop my rant here.
I'm giving that show a 5, in respect to the original idea and the way it gone until episode 10. I expected much more from Seikaisuru, and it disappointed me so much I'm not trusting any Toei animes anymore.
Modified by Biscuri, Jun 30, 2017 4:31 PM
Jun 30, 2017 5:31 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:01 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
zaShunia's facial expression was exceptionally amusing. Woah a kid huh, gotta fulfill nature's duty of passing on those genes somehow. I do hope Hanamori gets overtime compensation. It did not end with a timeline reset as I expected so that was interesting. 8/10 as long as you don't get your panties in a bunch over an anime.
Jun 30, 2017 6:13 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:19 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:46 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:49 PM
Jun 30, 2017 6:59 PM
Jun 30, 2017 8:08 PM
Jun 30, 2017 8:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
In the end, it wasn't a shounen battle between Shindo and zaShunina.
Still, I didn't like the way this series turned after ep 10.
zaShunina turned from a cold and logical being to a complete emotional being too fast
It complete replaces humanity questioning about evolution for a struggle between Saraka and zaShunina about how to manage humanity. The humanity itself had no way to speak for itself if they wanted to go to the anisotropic or not.
It had great potential to be a good sci-fi. It feels the story is broken somehow (probably it was a 24ep story)
not really... zaShunina was cold and logical, to ANY creature the idea of the unknown is daunting and he's been struggling with that the moment he interacted with humans, the more he learned the more he began to struggle and cope, it's no surprise at all he began to basically break down in what APPEARED to be really quickly, I mean a few months shown in 12 episodes, there's a lot we don't get to see...
my question is, is Shindo really dead? Didn't his daughter talk to his corpse as if he were alive? I think his "soul" survived though his body is now empty hence "beyond information", also with Saraka saying she has no power left yet on the balcony it's implied she does, you hear the sound effect of the anisotropic so either she lied and left earth maybe searching for shindo's soul? or her daughter returned but then there'd be no point for Saraka to have walked out of sight... I think that's the symbolism of the paper swan, one of each representing shindo, Saraka and their daughter, at least that's my thought... I was hoping to find a comment that mentioned this to justify my own idea but so far no one seems to mention it that I've seen yet, any thoughts on this?
Modified by jinchuurikki, Jun 30, 2017 8:40 PM
Jun 30, 2017 8:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
So not only did they have a daughter for the sole purpose of being a weapon but trapped her in a prison with just one other person for 16 years. Gon's dad, Goku, yeah they got nothing on these two.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That's so out of character. They didn't seem like the sociopathic kind till then and bam suddenly they're creating baby weapons and shit, completely disregarding the babies life. And zashunina turned from unemotional to emotional way too fast. Man what a waste of potential.
You know the funny thing is I keep seeing people say "poor Hanamori" because he sacrificed 16 years of his life to raise their daughter. But she was trapped in a bubble her entire life. Honestly that's a villain origin story if anything. I wouldn't have blamed her if she sided against Shindo. Unless Hanamori spent those 16 years indoctrinating her for the final confrontation. Brainwashing is always a sound tactic when raising child soldiers.
Jun 30, 2017 8:43 PM
Jun 30, 2017 9:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Wtf was that, the ending was a trainwreck and man the show went from 100 to 0 real fast.
You really can't convince me that zaShunina didn't notice/forsee time being manipulated or could stop them from using the feature?? It's HIS creation ffs. And how would that even work, the "child" is half human half anisotropic and her "mom" lost most of her powers since she was reborn as partly human or something like that so how the hell would she be stronger than zaShunina? Thats just flawed logic. How the hell did the car get in there?
Also HOW did 16 years pass and like where, cause it sure as hell didnt happen in the outside world so was it inside Kado? Without him noticing? But then how does that work? They did the deed and then manipulated time on Saraka so the pregnancy + 16 years would pass by quickly? Then how come she isn't older looking?
It just seems like bullshit & extremely flawed writing to me and I'm honestly shocked by how disappointed I am in the ending, I had such high hopes for the anime.
What also really bothered me is that Shindo basically emotionally manipulated his best friend into losing 16 years of his life to raise their "child"/"creation". What the fuck.
I'm so disappointed and irritated god this is so not what I'd hoped for.
Actually he wouldn't notice it... it's something that can be used individually and it's not HIS creation, it's something anisotropic beings are capable of and anyone really with that "4th gift", and it's not time being manipulated... it's a pocket of time, separated, they specifically explain it
Sarakas powers were surpressed and released, she was still quite the anisotropic being, not human
The car came out of the pocket of manipulated space
Hybrids are more powerful in just about any sci-fi genre... the best of both worlds, the fact she had an understanding of humanity AND anisotropic leading her to understand better of both worlds, which one of each could not fully understand the other
If you notice the guy who was younger than Shindo was now physically older... recall when zaShunina was explaining to shindo about time manipulation? one went faster than the other by 6hrs which appeared to be like 2minutes? Were you even paying attention to the show at all? They weren't with their daughter... they had sex, she conceived and after like 1 year to them or I assume the 17 MINUTES SHINDO WAS "MISSING" they left their daughter to stand before zaShunina and within the (what would have "realistically been") maybe more than the time in the show, 16 years could have passed... or maybe they had sex they night they kissed in the episode and what they told that guy that distraughted him was partly that "we've had a child" so the following few days was that 16 years...
It was actually quite smart writing in my opinion because I understood these things the series had basically explained quite simply... also Shindo didn't emotionally manipulate his friend to do anything, he asked. He says he could've asked a number of people, and his friend clearly doesn't seem to look regretful, he was basically like an uncle taking care of his neice and willingly, practically thinks of her as a daughter
Jun 30, 2017 9:03 PM
Jun 30, 2017 9:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Jokes aside, this anime went downhill fast IMO. I don't really mind the romance specifically (although I'd prefer if it hadn't been a thing), but the show went from being plot-driven to character-driven within the span of, like, one episode and it was an extremely awkward transition. Heck, even in the previous episode, there was a moment between Shindo and some guy whose name I've already forgotten that was supposed to be touching, but I barely even felt anything since he was a random side character who's only shown up on screen like three times.
6/10, since the concept was unique and decently lived up to its potential for a good chunk of the duration.
^^This^^ It started out so strong! Then it fell flat and never revived. I felt that the art and music were pretty good so I gave it the same score.
Jun 30, 2017 9:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
I know this a probably a stupid question, but I'm new to anime. This caught my attention through. Do you think think Shindo loved Saraka and Yukika in his own way? Because it look like it to me in the phones video. Plus he said he had precious things in his world, and looked at Saraka. Please don't get mad at my question.
Jun 30, 2017 9:46 PM
Jun 30, 2017 9:49 PM
Jun 30, 2017 10:53 PM
Jun 30, 2017 11:47 PM
Seems like the right answer was making babies ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
That ending was bad, could have been worst tho and be a boring dbz style battle but it finished with a bang instead. It sure was a spectacle..
Going to give it a 6/10 and not less tho because before episode 9 it was a legit good show and i was looking forward to it a lot this season.
Modified by DatRandomDude, Jul 1, 2017 12:17 AM
Jul 1, 2017 12:15 AM
Jul 1, 2017 12:29 AM
Jul 1, 2017 12:36 AM
Jul 1, 2017 12:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Was waiting for this DBZ level final battle that the haters were SO CERTAIN was going to go down but sadly that didn't happen huh?
Either way, I was pleasantly surprised by how they handled this series in the end, because not only did they throw most of the haters for a loop thinking that it was going to be some type of Naruto vs Sasuke match between Shindo and Yaha, but instead they did the exact opposite
The only predictable thing like @Stark700 said was Shindo dying (That was always a possibility given how close he and Yagha was, but I'm not even mad because that exchange of words between them was beautiful and the way it ended was really satisfying despite his death)
I liked that the show didn't have to dumb itself down either in regards to the fate of Fregonics and instead allowed both parties to maintain some level of intellect in regards to their strategies (Yaha linking Fregonics to KADO, so therefore, whatever happens to him happens tothe Wam that he gave the humans and likewise with Shindo and co using the Namo-can't bother typing this name out to enact their plan that I'm certain most including myself did not see coming)
YUKIKA.....My goodness she saved this finale from being predictable and a full on battle shounen finale.....And I love how she's essentially a culmination of Shindo and Yaha mixed with a bit of her mom.....The exact culmination of all 3 ideologies coming into one and having her be raised by the other dude is just sweet :''')
Like I said in the previous thread, I was never against humanity using the Wam etc but rather I felt like being forced to assimilate to anything IS fundamentally wrong on tons of fronts and levels and instead we should just naturally progress forward instead of rushing things that we are not ready for nor fully comprehend (Which is what Yaha was trying to do which in turn would destroy humanity) and that is why I'm glad that even though humanity lost it's Wam, they still have the knowledge to go off on so that naturally we will progress to achieving those higher dimensions and thankfully Yukika helped Yaha to understand this in the end because as I said before, she is the walking and talking culmination of all three ideologies
And lastly, I'm glad that Saraka chose to get rid of her powers since her keeping them would have made her a complete hypocrite as well as it being a huge contradiction to the purpose of this finale and the ending.....And I'm even more thankful that she didn't involve herself physically in this finale/confrontation lol
Easiest 9/10 I've ever given out this season
I quote this, because it's a good post and it expresses my positive feelings about the ending. As always, you don't fail to write well, Tokoya.
However, I can't help but feel disappointed, largely due to my own expectations. I was touched by Shindo and Yaha's conversation, but I wanted more than a small emotional stir. I expected a deep long debate, with Yaha openly expressing all the positives of his outlook and Shindo expressing his own. Yes, I understand that at that point Yaha was a bit unstable, since he was coming to terms with the human emotions that were surging inside him and the singularity realization, hence his immediate strong attachment to the one stable pillar before him - Shindo, yet that was no excuse for him to immediately jump to "If I can't have you, no one will". If there was such a scene, where Shindo thoroughly told him about how humanity reached this "singularity state" - emotions, pacing yourself, being at peace with the universe, etc. -, I believe the episode would have had a far more stable ground to put its "finished" flag. The debate doesn't need to be 15 or 20 minutes. It could have easily fitted before the two strike at each other, the latter moment being even more emotional, I believe.
It's exactly because this scene was missing that I felt awkward when the daughter appeared. Was it creative? Yes, it was. It was definitely not something we see every day. However, it doesn't make it fantastic. As Tokoya mentions, Yukika embodies all three ideologies, which is a good start, but the way her character performed ruined her concept to a certain degree in my eyes. Her being able to fling Yaha left and right without batting an eye, as if she were a goddess above all deities, for the 16 years she has been in existence, is so sweet it's perfectly bitter. Yes, it could be argued that, as a half-anisotropic being, both her physical and mental growth could have a greater speed than that of humans, but I find it hard to imagine a being trapped in an isolated house since birth for 16 years to possess a greater understanding of, generally speaking, everything than a being that has been in existence for what we could only fathom as eternity. Even if both Shindo and Saraka taught her, even if she was given many books to read, what pure genetics can do in the creation of the mental state is limited without the active various stimuli from the outside world. And this is coming from a person who loves genetics! It could even be said that her being able to do what she did sets fire on Saraka's ideology that the true miracle of humanity doesn't happen from being given everything in an instant, but from growing and experiencing many different things throughout your lifetime. Being part of the younger better generation does not automatically mean you are better than those older than you, who have wisdom from the time they have lived. Also, this is coming from a 20-year-old human being! I wouldn't have qualms against her defeating Yaha, because I understand this is about one concept toppling the other, if she hadn't done so without receiving a blow from Yaha or failing to properly use her powers. In fact, if there had been a moment in that "battle", where Yukika had found herself in a pinch with Yaha seemingly winning, it would have made much more sense in the scenario, because she embodies a young concept, one not entirely polished and without the experience of millennia, but her eventually winning would have shown that, despite existing flaws, she is the right answer.
In the end, I feel like I was promised chocolate cake, but was given only chocolate. It's delicious, but it's not cake. It doesn't have the finesse of cake. Until now, my rating was 9/10, but I'll lower it to 8/10. A shame, but I can't shut my eyes and pretend I didn't see what I did. Of course, this is how I feel about the ending and I'm not imposing it on anyone.