Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Poll: Seikaisuru Kado Episode 12 Discussion


Jul 1, 2017 12:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 24
Tokoya said:
Was waiting for this DBZ level final battle that the haters were SO CERTAIN was going to go down but sadly that didn't happen huh?

Either way, I was pleasantly surprised by how they handled this series in the end, because not only did they throw most of the haters for a loop thinking that it was going to be some type of Naruto vs Sasuke match between Shindo and Yaha, but instead they did the exact opposite

The only predictable thing like @Stark700 said was Shindo dying (That was always a possibility given how close he and Yagha was, but I'm not even mad because that exchange of words between them was beautiful and the way it ended was really satisfying despite his death)

I liked that the show didn't have to dumb itself down either in regards to the fate of Fregonics and instead allowed both parties to maintain some level of intellect in regards to their strategies (Yaha linking Fregonics to KADO, so therefore, whatever happens to him happens tothe Wam that he gave the humans and likewise with Shindo and co using the Namo-can't bother typing this name out to enact their plan that I'm certain most including myself did not see coming)

YUKIKA.....My goodness she saved this finale from being predictable and a full on battle shounen finale.....And I love how she's essentially a culmination of Shindo and Yaha mixed with a bit of her mom.....The exact culmination of all 3 ideologies coming into one and having her be raised by the other dude is just sweet :''')

Like I said in the previous thread, I was never against humanity using the Wam etc but rather I felt like being forced to assimilate to anything IS fundamentally wrong on tons of fronts and levels and instead we should just naturally progress forward instead of rushing things that we are not ready for nor fully comprehend (Which is what Yaha was trying to do which in turn would destroy humanity) and that is why I'm glad that even though humanity lost it's Wam, they still have the knowledge to go off on so that naturally we will progress to achieving those higher dimensions and thankfully Yukika helped Yaha to understand this in the end because as I said before, she is the walking and talking culmination of all three ideologies

And lastly, I'm glad that Saraka chose to get rid of her powers since her keeping them would have made her a complete hypocrite as well as it being a huge contradiction to the purpose of this finale and the ending.....And I'm even more thankful that she didn't involve herself physically in this finale/confrontation lol

Easiest 9/10 I've ever given out this season


I quote this, because it's a good post and it expresses my positive feelings about the ending. As always, you don't fail to write well, Tokoya.

However, I can't help but feel disappointed, largely due to my own expectations. I was touched by Shindo and Yaha's conversation, but I wanted more than a small emotional stir. I expected a deep long debate, with Yaha openly expressing all the positives of his outlook and Shindo expressing his own. Yes, I understand that at that point Yaha was a bit unstable, since he was coming to terms with the human emotions that were surging inside him and the singularity realization, hence his immediate strong attachment to the one stable pillar before him - Shindo, yet that was no excuse for him to immediately jump to "If I can't have you, no one will". If there was such a scene, where Shindo thoroughly told him about how humanity reached this "singularity state" - emotions, pacing yourself, being at peace with the universe, etc. -, I believe the episode would have had a far more stable ground to put its "finished" flag. The debate doesn't need to be 15 or 20 minutes. It could have easily fitted before the two strike at each other, the latter moment being even more emotional, I believe.

It's exactly because this scene was missing that I felt awkward when the daughter appeared. Was it creative? Yes, it was. It was definitely not something we see every day. However, it doesn't make it fantastic. As Tokoya mentions, Yukika embodies all three ideologies, which is a good start, but the way her character performed ruined her concept to a certain degree in my eyes. Her being able to fling Yaha left and right without batting an eye, as if she were a goddess above all deities, for the 16 years she has been in existence, is so sweet it's perfectly bitter. Yes, it could be argued that, as a half-anisotropic being, both her physical and mental growth could have a greater speed than that of humans, but I find it hard to imagine a being trapped in an isolated house since birth for 16 years to possess a greater understanding of, generally speaking, everything than a being that has been in existence for what we could only fathom as eternity. Even if both Shindo and Saraka taught her, even if she was given many books to read, what pure genetics can do in the creation of the mental state is limited without the active various stimuli from the outside world. And this is coming from a person who loves genetics! It could even be said that her being able to do what she did sets fire on Saraka's ideology that the true miracle of humanity doesn't happen from being given everything in an instant, but from growing and experiencing many different things throughout your lifetime. Being part of the younger better generation does not automatically mean you are better than those older than you, who have wisdom from the time they have lived. Also, this is coming from a 20-year-old human being! I wouldn't have qualms against her defeating Yaha, because I understand this is about one concept toppling the other, if she hadn't done so without receiving a blow from Yaha or failing to properly use her powers. In fact, if there had been a moment in that "battle", where Yukika had found herself in a pinch with Yaha seemingly winning, it would have made much more sense in the scenario, because she embodies a young concept, one not entirely polished and without the experience of millennia, but her eventually winning would have shown that, despite existing flaws, she is the right answer.

In the end, I feel like I was promised chocolate cake, but was given only chocolate. It's delicious, but it's not cake. It doesn't have the finesse of cake. Until now, my rating was 9/10, but I'll lower it to 8/10. A shame, but I can't shut my eyes and pretend I didn't see what I did. Of course, this is how I feel about the ending and I'm not imposing it on anyone.

 
Jul 1, 2017 1:14 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5
Za Shunina 's expression was priceless, some scenes in this episode can become good memes.
 
Jul 1, 2017 1:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1099
Perfect 8ish/10 show.

Fantastic premise, average execution, average ending. In the end I could say more good things about it than bad for twelve episode Anime adaption. I think anyone who expected more is fooling themselves. In the spectrum of Anime adaptions this holds your attention pretty well on it's own and leaves you curious for more.
 
Jul 1, 2017 3:15 AM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
lost from what it aimed to be. what the purpose of that eps. 0 ? the last half episodes become like 'wth'
 
Jul 1, 2017 5:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 220
What a load of shit this was.
 
Jul 1, 2017 5:38 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
Kado's episode 12 commentary: "wat."
MyAnimeList』 『』 『MyMangaList
 
Jul 1, 2017 5:43 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Well, that sucked. Can't beleive how fast this show went to shit. Griffith levels of hate for Saraka btw
 
Jul 1, 2017 6:08 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 31
Fucked up ending.
I didn't expect this amount of shit.
Makes me think this show was "just a prank bro". How much ZaShunina tried to advance the humanity in all those episodes, in the end everything being screwed up by his foolish emotions.
Too rushed. Too many "wtf's moments".

I loved this so much, it was a 10/10
Too sad it downgraded to 7/10.
lol
 
Jul 1, 2017 7:17 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4585
This show better not have a season 2. Fuck this show. You had potential, and you ruined it. Thanks so much for ruining and wasting the 25 minutes of my Fridays.

4/10
----------------------------------------
"NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~"
NANACHI (MADE IN ABYSS), 2017
----------------------------------------
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:14 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2270
I'm disappointed that the conflict was solved through deus ex machina rather than clever machinations or you know, negotiations, as the series' main theme..

tbh I'm not even sure how to rate it. I still quite like it until episode 11 but the ending is highly disappointing.

As someone else said earlier, Shindo's daughter was so OP that the first part with Shindo and Zashuina felt like nothing.. possibly a fan service for those damn fujoshis

I settled on 7/10 but I might change my mind later and give it lower
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
So...Deus Ex Machina time. Nice plotholes. Why didn't any higher-than-anisotropic beings happen before if Sakara has been around for so many years as different creatures? No seriously. LOL. Moreover, what happened to negotiation? Guess it's DBZ time. I didn't think the rating would drop on the last episode but I'm dropping my original rating form 8/10 to 5/10.
Modified by SongstressSL, Jul 1, 2017 10:08 AM
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4186
it's still dbz time cuz this is basically the equivalent of summoning Zen-o in future trunks arc lol
CrossAnge

Hey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste)
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:34 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
GangsterCat said:
it's still dbz time cuz this is basically the equivalent of summoning Zen-o in future trunks arc lol


yuliyana29 said:
Trainwreck/10. This makes Mayoiga look like a masterpiece.


Totally agree with both of you. Like, Valvrape makes more sense than this show and Gundam Seed Destiny was less of a trainwreck, lol. I even wondered if for this show, they changed writers in the middle or something.
Modified by SongstressSL, Jul 1, 2017 8:39 AM
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 240
I'm satisfied with the ending. Yukika's existence caught me off guard. Hanamori is the mvp. Masterful use of CG too. Interesting scifi show overall. 8/10

Now Toei, it's time to turn Rakuen Tsuihou: Expelled from Paradise into TV anime!

 
Jul 1, 2017 9:08 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1683
I loved this show so much and then it just kept going downhill until he was met with the worst ending of all. Ugh.


Also Hanamori was right. Yukika is HIS daughter. Screw biology in this case.

Also did Yahi Zashina die or just go back?
 
Jul 1, 2017 9:39 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 875
GokuNazz said:
Damn, that romance escalated quickly.

This show is missing the 'Romance' tag


Yeah that bit felt like like it was kinda forced in at the last second because they couldn't think of anything else. But overall I think it was a good show. Another good example that CG anime can be decent.
 
Jul 1, 2017 9:49 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
SabrinaKhuntia said:
HereticHunter said:


This ^^^^^ oh boy, those haters must be burning their salt into the highest temperature by now

boy this ending was unexpected from beginning to end, I even got mindfucked several times, but the show DID stick loyal to what it was doing: Mindfucking us while having interesting talking confrontations, that Development of zaShunina tho. and the introductión of Yukika was completely unexpected, the Anisotropic can be scary if you know how to use it huh?

what happened to the loli scientific?


Even though there wasn't some DBZ battle, I still found the ending to be shitty af. The focus of this show was how humanity responded to zaShunina's gifts, not just Shindo and Saraka but like the people as a collective whole and as individuals. What happened to the UN getting involved and all of that? And it's like the writers completely forgot about the Prime Minister of Japan, who actually had a decent role in the beginning, and then randomly brought him back in the finale because they remembered that governments would probably, I don't know, have an active role in all of this - or at least a significant reaction? There was so much potential with what they could've done after introducing the Sansa but instead, they switched to focusing on characters who were never even complex to begin with (other than the anisotropic). I said it before, but they even included a scene of Shindo's friend who we were apparently supposed to care about even though he is a random side charactes that had like a total of five minutes of screentime. Instead, they could've gone the route of showing:

- How the media would inevitably twist the truth in its presentation of what was going on
- How companies and corporations would take advantage of the situation
- How different world leaders would respond, and maybe even develop or change their viewpoint, as they got more and more gifts from zashu
- How there would be conflict within the scientific community in terms of what to do next

These are all plot points they set up in the first half. It wasn't just about Shindo and Saraka's response to the situation (and if it was, then I'd say the show wasn't even that great in the beginning then, since it's pretty unrealistic to expect a simple binary divide in thinking when it comes to something as complicated as this). I mean, to rephrase what I said earlier, those two were pretty one-dimensional, and that was alright since it was more about the philosophies of the individuals than the actual characters themselves. So switching the tone to make it heavily character-focused ended up turning this into a trainwreck imo.

GangsterCat said:
it's still dbz time cuz this is basically the equivalent of summoning Zen-o in future trunks arc lol


This too. XD


Agreed. I don't really care if a story isn't character focused if the plot can carry it. The plot was set for success so when they shifted it, it made this show lose its appeal. I was hoping for philosophical confrontations, not yandere yaoi pairing vs straight pairing. I don't even care if there is a pairing, to be honest. As such, I can't praise this show. I liked the beginning, but as a whole, this turned out to be a joke. Midway when Shindo was dying, I was laughing.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 9:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1210
What an asspull of an ending. I'd rather take no romance at all than nonsensical romance like this that ended up summoning a goddamn Deus ex machina to ruin the otherwise good and interesting show. Again. Damn.

7/10 just for the enjoyment the show was bringing me during this season barring the last few episodes.
Modified by CG, Jul 1, 2017 9:53 AM
ったく、嫌な世の中だよ。
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:08 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 79
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final
Modified by Masood_sama_XN, Jul 1, 2017 10:14 AM
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:19 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4585
MetaThPr4h said:
I wish I could forget about these last 4 episodes, what a way to ruin a show that had me hooked hard with the interesting Sci-Fi idea.

I'm not even sure how to rate this, fucking what man.

This is so me right now. I really loved this show so much, not until that Saraka as an anisotropic being episode happened. Y'all fucked up, Toei!
----------------------------------------
"NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~ NNAAAA~"
NANACHI (MADE IN ABYSS), 2017
----------------------------------------
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final


Agreed, haha. Saraka was the true villain of the story. And for me, their daughter is just a plothole.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:48 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 75
I understand why so many in this community have intense distaste for Kado, because I also had difficulties grappling with the story the show was truly trying to tell. Up until episode 9, I, like many of you, believed that this was going to be a high-concept science fiction show about the effects an unimaginably-more powerful but benevolent creature could have on human society. I understand why I made this mistake- I focused too much on the goings-on of the humans, and did not consider enough the thoughts Yaha-kui zaShunina was having.

Episode 9 brought zaShunina's character arc to the forefront and revealed that, in fact, this sci-fi show was more interested in telling a story about ideologies clashing and coexisting and advancing, and that all the human drama we were experiencing was itself little more than a part of a greater whole. If you look at Kado through a lens of mythological archetypes, the workings of the show become clear- through the medium of Shindo Kojiro, two embodiments of pure human drives have an argument. Tsukai Saraka, embodiment of love for tradition and humanity, and Yaha-kui zaShunina, embodiment of love for information and advancement, pit their ideals against each other and conclusions are reached:

Questing for knowledge without also cherishing the things you encounter along the way will lead not only to your own destruction, but also the destruction of everything you have come to value.

While a love for your surroundings may be noble, it alone is weak and cannot hope to combat the greedy and powerful.

Only by finding a compromise between these two lofty and yet unworkable ideologies can we hope to successfully advance while preserving the unique traits that keep us human.

That is the message of Seikaisuru Kado. That is the right answer.
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:59 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
PianoManGregory said:
I understand why so many in this community have intense distaste for Kado, because I also had difficulties grappling with the story the show was truly trying to tell. Up until episode 9, I, like many of you, believed that this was going to be a high-concept science fiction show about the effects an unimaginably-more powerful but benevolent creature could have on human society. I understand why I made this mistake- I focused too much on the goings-on of the humans, and did not consider enough the thoughts Yaha-kui zaShunina was having.

Episode 9 brought zaShunina's character arc to the forefront and revealed that, in fact, this sci-fi show was more interested in telling a story about ideologies clashing and coexisting and advancing, and that all the human drama we were experiencing was itself little more than a part of a greater whole. If you look at Kado through a lens of mythological archetypes, the workings of the show become clear- through the medium of Shindo Kojiro, two embodiments of pure human drives have an argument. Tsukai Saraka, embodiment of love for tradition and humanity, and Yaha-kui zaShunina, embodiment of love for information and advancement, pit their ideals against each other and conclusions are reached:

Questing for knowledge without also cherishing the things you encounter along the way will lead not only to your own destruction, but also the destruction of everything you have come to value.

While a love for your surroundings may be noble, it alone is weak and cannot hope to combat the greedy and powerful.

Only by finding a compromise between these two lofty and yet unworkable ideologies can we hope to successfully advance while preserving the unique traits that keep us human.

That is the message of Seikaisuru Kado. That is the right answer.


They would have done a better job with Saraka remaining human and representing people who actually are traditional and rising up against Yaha-kui than having her get in a relationship with Shindo. From the point when those two started a romance, the negotiation aspect, and the idea of representing sides kind of disappeared from focus. It just feels like Saraka bent whatever values or philosophies Shindo originally had and that's a marked trait of a Sue, hence the hate for her from other viewers.

Also, by forcing Yahakui to leave the story setting, the makers of this show put forth the following message: "No, if you don't agree with our traditional values, then you are simply denied your choice to advance (technologically)." While the technology was advancing too quickly at the start, this message isn't the right answer either.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:14 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
SabrinaKhuntia said:


This would all be well and good if they hadn't spent a sizable portion of the show focusing "on the goings-on of the humans". There's no point in spending 6+ episodes raising interesting plot points about government involvement and the response of the media and scientific community if the ending is just going to be about three characters. Even if they were always the main focus (which is arguable), I still find it a waste of potential to ignore the various ways different groups of human beings would react. Sure, they are only a small part of a greater whole, like you said, but the switch from focusing on all of that to focusing on the trio was done too abruptly.


This is why I compared the latter episodes' writing to fanfiction works in my review. It's totally off the point of the previous majority of the show.While this is okay in fanfiction works since fanfiction writing is all about having fun playing with whatever the original left off, this is kind of a different story since this is supposed to be one coherent work.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:21 AM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 63
K4ppin said:
fahsad said:



If you play close attention to both the Wam and paper cranes in their glass enclosures, at the moment the sound occurs, the Wam moves ever so slightly, and then the left crane tips over - something that shouldn't be able to happen in a sealed enclosure, implying that it was caused by the Wam and that the Wam is still able to generate energy.


I saw the crane tip over, not so much the wam. Also, heard that weird breathy whisper. I almost feel like Saraka went off into her own anisotrophic space as she walked off, could be why we hear that whisper. Maybe she doesn't have all of her powers left, but she could still have retained a portion, she is after all still an anisotrophic being. Said she doesn't have "that" power, but that doesn't necessarily mean she lost all her powers.


why is it so hard to understand? sarada say, "that which goes beyond information.." meaning something that cant be fully comprehend. And the shot which the crane fall in a glass box literally spell it, that shindo exist in another form which humanity cant explain (soul).


The ending for shindo yukika remind me of Shinsekai yori, where
i can comprehend the ending, using maria plot and time and space. 9/10 for enjoyment and uniqueness f the show.
Modified by RedTie, Jul 4, 2017 9:46 PM
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:28 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 75
SongstressSL said:
They would have done a better job with Saraka remaining human and representing people who actually are traditional and rising up against Yaha-kui than having her get in a relationship with Shindo. From the point when those two started a romance, the negotiation aspect, and the idea of representing sides kind of disappeared from focus. It just feels like Saraka bent whatever values or philosophies Shindo originally had and that's a marked trait of a Sue, hence the hate for her from other viewers.

Also, by forcing Yahakui to leave the story setting, the makers of this show put forth the following message: "No, if you don't agree with our traditional values, then you are simply denied your choice to advance (technologically)." While the technology was advancing too quickly at the start, this message isn't the right answer either.


I had not yet considered that people would be displeased with Saraka because of what they perceive as Mary Sue qualities, but now that I consider it, I think that it's unfair to characterize her in such a way. A Mary Sue is, almost by definition, a self-insert character, and I do not think it is possible to empathize with Saraka enough to experience things from her point of view. While you are correct that Saraka's views change Shindo's views, do not forget that Shindo was also affected by zaShunina's views: zaShunina literally forced his mindset onto Shindo in the first episode through his "conditioning". Shindo is meant to be changed by these two because he is a curious and compromising human mind, while zaShunina and Saraka are overpowering embodiments of pure ideologies. Basically, Saraka is not a Mary Sue, she is a force of ideological nature, and I think that because this is what Saraka is, she would not have been able to represent the same things if she was merely a human.

I hope this answer is complete enough.

SabrinaKhuntia said:
This would all be well and good if they hadn't spent a sizable portion of the show focusing "on the goings-on of the humans". There's no point in spending 6+ episodes raising interesting plot points about government involvement and the response of the media and scientific community if the ending is just going to be about three characters. Even if they were always the main focus (which is arguable), I still find it a waste of potential to ignore the various ways different groups of human beings would react. Sure, they are only a small part of a greater whole, like you said, but the switch from focusing on all of that to focusing on the trio was done too abruptly.


I empathize with what you're saying, but as a person who loves Neon Genesis Evangelion to death, I have experienced a shift in focus like this before. I admit that perhaps I am abnormally receptive to such a shift. I think responding more completely to your opinion would require me to first rewatch the entirety of Seikaisuru Kado, and I am afraid I have too many other things to watch first...
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
PianoManGregory said:


I had not yet considered that people would be displeased with Saraka because of what they perceive as Mary Sue qualities, but now that I consider it, I think that it's unfair to characterize her in such a way. A Mary Sue is, almost by definition, a self-insert character, and I do not think it is possible to empathize with Saraka enough to experience things from her point of view. While you are correct that Saraka's views change Shindo's views, do not forget that Shindo was also affected by zaShunina's views: zaShunina literally forced his mindset onto Shindo in the first episode through his "conditioning". Shindo is meant to be changed by these two because he is a curious and compromising human mind, while zaShunina and Saraka are overpowering embodiments of pure ideologies. Basically, Saraka is not a Mary Sue, she is a force of ideological nature, and I think that because this is what Saraka is, she would not have been able to represent the same things if she was merely a human.

I hope this answer is complete enough.


Yahakui didn't condition Shindo in the beginning, merely transferred a lot of information at once because he didn't know how to talk like a human. And no, nowadays, Mary Sue is loosely defined to the point where even canon characters can qualify if they are "special" enough. In this case, yes, Saraka qualifies. Mind you I don't strictly hate Mary Sues. Some are well written and can be liked. In the case of Saraka, she bends the plot to be from about philosophical views and people collectively to being about her forcing her choice to remain in a cocoon world on everyone else by basically seducing a man. The governments are quickly forgotten once her romance starts. This kind of twisting of the plot is precisely what fanfiction Mary Sues are criticized for.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:50 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 315
Some of things confused me:

1. I'm confused about the daughter.. Hanamori said he raised her for 16 years. Where did he raised her? Parallel world? She seems to be wearing very generic school uniform.
So that means Shindo in this world is dead and Shindo is alive on the other parallel world? If that's true, how about Hanamori in the other parallel world? It's making me more confused the more I think about it.

2. Saraka's ring is supposed to be her seal? When she was young she didn't wear any ring, how come when she's in college she already wearing ring? If that ring is a seal, why did she not wear it since young? The ring has been zoomed in multiple times but there's no explanation about it.

3. Why did Shindo need to die? If she got that OP daughter I don't think he need to die? Is it for the dramatic plot? Did his death was a trigger to activate his daughter noble phantasm? I think the attack would be cooler if the summoned car hit Yahakui.

SabrinaKhuntia said:
HereticHunter said:


This ^^^^^ oh boy, those haters must be burning their salt into the highest temperature by now

boy this ending was unexpected from beginning to end, I even got mindfucked several times, but the show DID stick loyal to what it was doing: Mindfucking us while having interesting talking confrontations, that Development of zaShunina tho. and the introductión of Yukika was completely unexpected, the Anisotropic can be scary if you know how to use it huh?

what happened to the loli scientific?


Even though there wasn't some DBZ battle, I still found the ending to be shitty af. The focus of this show was how humanity responded to zaShunina's gifts, not just Shindo and Saraka but like the people as a collective whole and as individuals. What happened to the UN getting involved and all of that? And it's like the writers completely forgot about the Prime Minister of Japan, who actually had a decent role in the beginning, and then randomly brought him back in the finale because they remembered that governments would probably, I don't know, have an active role in all of this - or at least a significant reaction? There was so much potential with what they could've done after introducing the Sansa but instead, they switched to focusing on characters who were never even complex to begin with (other than the anisotropic). I said it before, but they even included a scene of Shindo's friend who we were apparently supposed to care about even though he is a random side charactes that had like a total of five minutes of screentime. Instead, they could've gone the route of showing:

- How the media would inevitably twist the truth in its presentation of what was going on
- How companies and corporations would take advantage of the situation
- How different world leaders would respond, and maybe even develop or change their viewpoint, as they got more and more gifts from zashu
- How there would be conflict within the scientific community in terms of what to do next

These are all plot points they set up in the first half. It wasn't just about Shindo and Saraka's response to the situation (and if it was, then I'd say the show wasn't even that great in the beginning then, since it's pretty unrealistic to expect a simple binary divide in thinking when it comes to something as complicated as this). I mean, to rephrase what I said earlier, those two were pretty one-dimensional, and that was alright since it was more about the philosophies of the individuals than the actual characters themselves. So switching the tone to make it heavily character-focused ended up turning this into a trainwreck imo.

GangsterCat said:
it's still dbz time cuz this is basically the equivalent of summoning Zen-o in future trunks arc lol


This too. XD


Agreed.
I was disappointed after fake Shindo came out. Literally everyone just agreed what the fake Shindo said, they're like brainwashed.
Hanamori which is on par with Prime Minister also has been only in front of his desk all the time, no wonder Shindo refused the job.

Shindo was great at the prequel episode, I was expecting more like that. Meanwhile Saraka since the beginning does not have the attitude and behaviour of 'ace' negotiator, her boss was even worse. No wonder she's an ace at her department.

SongstressSL said:
Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final


Agreed, haha. Saraka was the true villain of the story. And for me, their daughter is just a plothole.


I agree that Saraka is the true villain.. She forced her ideals to Shindo(brainwashing), killed him, made Hanamori lost 16 years of his life and forced him to raise her daughter. I think she's laughing at the end on the background.

Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final


Her daughter is Shindo's noble phantasm! Read my post above :)
The one who raised her was Hanamori, he wasted 16 years for that.
Why does it need to be 16 years? Not 12? Not 14? 16 years is the exact trigger needed for noble phantasm!
 
Jul 1, 2017 11:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
@LeonLanford Hahaha! I'm surprised there's more plotholes than the obvious, but yeah. I'm still confused how the daughter has more dimensions than either parent. Even more confused why none of Saraka's previous scions (she's been around forever, come on), are higher than anisotropics.
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 12:21 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 315
SongstressSL said:
@LeonLanford Hahaha! I'm surprised there's more plotholes than the obvious, but yeah. I'm still confused how the daughter has more dimensions than either parent. Even more confused why none of Saraka's previous scions (she's been around forever, come on), are higher than anisotropics.


For that let's assume the ring is her 'seal'. The ring was never broken before this, that's why after the 'seal' broke, she gained the ability to create OP descendant. Yahakui did not know about this ability because he did not know that male(human) and female(anisotropic) can procreate, that's why he was really surprised when he saw the daughter(me too).

What confused me more is why she lost her anisotropic, it was more reasonable if her anisotropic was 'transferred' to her daughter. But she lost it after the story ended one month later..
I think maybe one month later her body realized that she's not virgin anymore(when her 'period' came) thus removing her status as anisotropic. Source: I read story about some princesses who lost their virginity before wedding and removed from their status.

I don't know what I'm talking about lol

SabrinaKhuntia said:
LeonLanford said:



Her daughter is Shindo's noble phantasm! Read my post above :)
The one who raised her was Hanamori, he wasted 16 years for that.
Why does it need to be 16 years? Not 12? Not 14? 16 years is the exact trigger needed for noble phantasm!


Yes, little did people know, the anisotropic + his powers is actually Gilgamesh + EA (his name even happens to be zashu, Gil's favorite word) and Shindo is Enkidu, the only person who can counter him.

Which obviously means that Yukika, as Shindo's noble phantasm, is none other than Enki's Enuma Elish.

This analogy is clearly the "right answer" they have been referring to all along.



I forgot to mention that Shindo is Saraka's servant(slave), but you seem to understand what I meant!
You're almost correct! The right answer is make a baby with your servant to save the world :)

 
Jul 1, 2017 12:30 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5793
Shadowwolfcat said:
Tokoya said:
Was waiting for this DBZ level final battle that the haters were SO CERTAIN was going to go down but sadly that didn't happen huh?

Either way, I was pleasantly surprised by how they handled this series in the end, because not only did they throw most of the haters for a loop thinking that it was going to be some type of Naruto vs Sasuke match between Shindo and Yaha, but instead they did the exact opposite

The only predictable thing like @Stark700 said was Shindo dying (That was always a possibility given how close he and Yagha was, but I'm not even mad because that exchange of words between them was beautiful and the way it ended was really satisfying despite his death)

I liked that the show didn't have to dumb itself down either in regards to the fate of Fregonics and instead allowed both parties to maintain some level of intellect in regards to their strategies (Yaha linking Fregonics to KADO, so therefore, whatever happens to him happens tothe Wam that he gave the humans and likewise with Shindo and co using the Namo-can't bother typing this name out to enact their plan that I'm certain most including myself did not see coming)

YUKIKA.....My goodness she saved this finale from being predictable and a full on battle shounen finale.....And I love how she's essentially a culmination of Shindo and Yaha mixed with a bit of her mom.....The exact culmination of all 3 ideologies coming into one and having her be raised by the other dude is just sweet :''')

Like I said in the previous thread, I was never against humanity using the Wam etc but rather I felt like being forced to assimilate to anything IS fundamentally wrong on tons of fronts and levels and instead we should just naturally progress forward instead of rushing things that we are not ready for nor fully comprehend (Which is what Yaha was trying to do which in turn would destroy humanity) and that is why I'm glad that even though humanity lost it's Wam, they still have the knowledge to go off on so that naturally we will progress to achieving those higher dimensions and thankfully Yukika helped Yaha to understand this in the end because as I said before, she is the walking and talking culmination of all three ideologies

And lastly, I'm glad that Saraka chose to get rid of her powers since her keeping them would have made her a complete hypocrite as well as it being a huge contradiction to the purpose of this finale and the ending.....And I'm even more thankful that she didn't involve herself physically in this finale/confrontation lol

Easiest 9/10 I've ever given out this season


I quote this, because it's a good post and it expresses my positive feelings about the ending. As always, you don't fail to write well, Tokoya.

However, I can't help but feel disappointed, largely due to my own expectations. I was touched by Shindo and Yaha's conversation, but I wanted more than a small emotional stir. I expected a deep long debate, with Yaha openly expressing all the positives of his outlook and Shindo expressing his own. Yes, I understand that at that point Yaha was a bit unstable, since he was coming to terms with the human emotions that were surging inside him and the singularity realization, hence his immediate strong attachment to the one stable pillar before him - Shindo, yet that was no excuse for him to immediately jump to "If I can't have you, no one will". If there was such a scene, where Shindo thoroughly told him about how humanity reached this "singularity state" - emotions, pacing yourself, being at peace with the universe, etc. -, I believe the episode would have had a far more stable ground to put its "finished" flag. The debate doesn't need to be 15 or 20 minutes. It could have easily fitted before the two strike at each other, the latter moment being even more emotional, I believe.

It's exactly because this scene was missing that I felt awkward when the daughter appeared. Was it creative? Yes, it was. It was definitely not something we see every day. However, it doesn't make it fantastic. As Tokoya mentions, Yukika embodies all three ideologies, which is a good start, but the way her character performed ruined her concept to a certain degree in my eyes. Her being able to fling Yaha left and right without batting an eye, as if she were a goddess above all deities, for the 16 years she has been in existence, is so sweet it's perfectly bitter. Yes, it could be argued that, as a half-anisotropic being, both her physical and mental growth could have a greater speed than that of humans, but I find it hard to imagine a being trapped in an isolated house since birth for 16 years to possess a greater understanding of, generally speaking, everything than a being that has been in existence for what we could only fathom as eternity. Even if both Shindo and Saraka taught her, even if she was given many books to read, what pure genetics can do in the creation of the mental state is limited without the active various stimuli from the outside world. And this is coming from a person who loves genetics! It could even be said that her being able to do what she did sets fire on Saraka's ideology that the true miracle of humanity doesn't happen from being given everything in an instant, but from growing and experiencing many different things throughout your lifetime. Being part of the younger better generation does not automatically mean you are better than those older than you, who have wisdom from the time they have lived. Also, this is coming from a 20-year-old human being! I wouldn't have qualms against her defeating Yaha, because I understand this is about one concept toppling the other, if she hadn't done so without receiving a blow from Yaha or failing to properly use her powers. In fact, if there had been a moment in that "battle", where Yukika had found herself in a pinch with Yaha seemingly winning, it would have made much more sense in the scenario, because she embodies a young concept, one not entirely polished and without the experience of millennia, but her eventually winning would have shown that, despite existing flaws, she is the right answer.

In the end, I feel like I was promised chocolate cake, but was given only chocolate. It's delicious, but it's not cake. It doesn't have the finesse of cake. Until now, my rating was 9/10, but I'll lower it to 8/10. A shame, but I can't shut my eyes and pretend I didn't see what I did. Of course, this is how I feel about the ending and I'm not imposing it on anyone.

Great post there buddy
 
Jul 1, 2017 12:39 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
LeonLanford said:
SongstressSL said:
@LeonLanford Hahaha! I'm surprised there's more plotholes than the obvious, but yeah. I'm still confused how the daughter has more dimensions than either parent. Even more confused why none of Saraka's previous scions (she's been around forever, come on), are higher than anisotropics.


For that let's assume the ring is her 'seal'. The ring was never broken before this, that's why after the 'seal' broke, she gained the ability to create OP descendant. Yahakui did not know about this ability because he did not know that male(human) and female(anisotropic) can procreate, that's why he was really surprised when he saw the daughter(me too).

What confused me more is why she lost her anisotropic, it was more reasonable if her anisotropic was 'transferred' to her daughter. But she lost it after the story ended one month later..
I think maybe one month later her body realized that she's not virgin anymore(when her 'period' came) thus removing her status as anisotropic. Source: I read story about some princesses who lost their virginity before wedding and removed from their status.

I don't know what I'm talking about lol

SabrinaKhuntia said:


Yes, little did people know, the anisotropic + his powers is actually Gilgamesh + EA (his name even happens to be zashu, Gil's favorite word) and Shindo is Enkidu, the only person who can counter him.

Which obviously means that Yukika, as Shindo's noble phantasm, is none other than Enki's Enuma Elish.

This analogy is clearly the "right answer" they have been referring to all along.



I forgot to mention that Shindo is Saraka's servant(slave), but you seem to understand what I meant!
You're almost correct! The right answer is make a baby with your servant to save the world :)



I don't know what you're talking about either. It makes more sense to just assume some female staff member of the show's production team had the hots for Shindo and convinced her colleges to write her into the story and since she is from a higher dimension than the story, she is an anisotropic, but then this didn't make much sense so next, some executives from the animation company inserted themselves as the "daughter" to somehow end the story, thus the "daughter" has more dimensions (authority) because the executives pay the production team in the (anisotropic) real life. And so, this is why anisotropics have power over the universe and why Saraka suspiciously fits the loosely defined term of Mary Sue.

Disclaimer: I'm not making statements about any specific real people. The above is just a joke meant to critcize the plot of Seikaisuru Kado.
Modified by SongstressSL, Jul 1, 2017 1:31 PM
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 12:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
SabrinaKhuntia said:





You just inspired a new concept of Lelouch x C.C. fanfiction for me to eventually write about. xD
There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 12:55 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 315
@SabrinaKhuntia
@SongstressSL

Ahaha.. I think I'm done posting here..
Thanks for the laugh :)

@SongstressSL
It seems some anisotropic deleted your post, but no worry I've already read it with Nanomis-hein :)
 
Jul 1, 2017 1:55 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 212
That ending was a giant turkey (nothing against turkeys btw).

If you are gonna have an all powerful daughter that can come back in time to save the would, the least she could have done was arrive before Shindou died so she could have saved him too.

Blah. Gobble gobble, giant turkey.
 
Jul 1, 2017 2:04 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1
I interpret the ending as humanity refusing evolution, honestly. zaShunina acted childish in the end because he gained human emotions, including selfishness and attachment to Shindo. He was a superior being who didn't have emotions and there was a void in him, I could compare him to Light from Death Note in that sense, who was a bored genius. Since he's been there from the beginning of the universe, I imagine he saw all he could see, and combined with him being unable to perceive emotions, he ultimately just wanted a friend. I believe that if Shindo wasn't rushed and influenced by Saraka, he would've been able to properly negotiate with zaShunina and cooperate to evolve the world in a way favorable to humans too. Having those technologies wasn't a bad thing. Of course, they could've been misused, but that risk is present in any form of progress. And there's mentioned that they were left with something very important, the knowledge that the fregonics exist and that they will maybe visit zaShunina on their own, with their own power - I don't see this possible, since getting to that level of progress would take so much time and resources and it's very possible that humanity won't even survive that long. zaShunina's initial intentions, before gaining human traits and drifting a little from his initial purpose in my opinion, were those of wanting to share his knowledge, and that was pretty much the essence of his objective, mutual information sharing. He initially didn't have any sense of good and evil, so I believe that his thoughts when he was in that state where the purest form of his intention, and since he wanted more and more information, he wouldn't want to destroy that very source. I think that Saraka's interference was bad, cause at that time he already gained human emotions and he probably felt cornered, he wanted Shindo for himself. He never had a friend before, he didn't know how to react, and he rushed things in order to secure the fact that Shindo won't go away. Everything was new to him, and he couldn't control his emotions, that could be seen pretty clearly when he was shown the video with Shindo and his daughter. He was indeed surprised, but he was also angry, confused and he probably felt betrayed, but he still held Shindo- his first friend- dear. After all that, he even rushed to him before being sent back to his dimension. To conclude, I'd like to say that I think that this is a story about the fear of the unknown, and maybe about the way people interpret concepts such as genius, divinity, progress. A higher being offered his knowledge to the humans, and humanity gave him in exchange human emotions. People ultimately rejected the sudden progress and chose to be left to their own devices, and drove away that being. I would've loved to see an ending where humanity actually managed to use that technology, but I find this ending kinda fitting.
Sorry for the barrage of text, I really wanted to say all this >.< I hope I was coherent xD
And this is just my opinion, by no means I'm saying it is the correct view or anything, it's just how I interpreted it. I would love to hear your opinion on this~


 
Jul 1, 2017 2:39 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 310
LaPokota said:
That ending was a giant turkey (nothing against turkeys btw).

If you are gonna have an all powerful daughter that can come back in time to save the would, the least she could have done was arrive before Shindou died so she could have saved him too.

Blah. Gobble gobble, giant turkey.


Yeah, the "surprise bitch!" straight up doesn't make any sense. She could have entered Kado and stomped him in 5 seconds.

Unless he really did EVERYTHING to surprise him, which means he wasted 16 years of Hanamori's life, deprived a mother of her daughter, locked out his daughter for 16 years in isolation and finally basically committed suicide just to surprise him before killing him.

Heck, how did Shido even know she was going to have hax powers anyway?

 
Jul 1, 2017 3:00 PM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1
So, the right answer was sakoku. It helped medieval Japan, now should repeat it for the whole universe.

Hugely disappointing ending.
 
Jul 1, 2017 3:03 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 506
Wow, YaZa turned from a robot to Yandere in just 1 ep. Also, Shindou fucked Saraka, conceived a child, and handed her off to Hanamori in a closed space for 16 years and BAAM "My child! Destroy thy 'real' father's enemy". WTF happened to this show in the last 3 eps. Dissappointing. 6/10

YaZa wanted information overdose, maybe he should have hooked on INTERNET!!
 
Jul 1, 2017 3:38 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 177
rinneganfire4u said:
Wow, YaZa turned from a robot to Yandere in just 1 ep. Also, Shindou fucked Saraka, conceived a child, and handed her off to Hanamori in a closed space for 16 years and BAAM "My child! Destroy thy 'real' father's enemy". WTF happened to this show in the last 3 eps. Dissappointing. 6/10

YaZa wanted information overdose, maybe he should have hooked on INTERNET!!


But then this show would have nothing to show for like, 10 episodes. Production staff needz to make moneyz from dis showz! :>

There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so.
 
Jul 1, 2017 4:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 76
GokuNazz said:
Damn, that romance escalated quickly.

This show is missing the 'Romance' tag


The romance ruined everything, if only had I known that it'd turn out like that I would never had watched it.

MetaThPr4h said:
I wish I could forget about these last 4 episodes, what a way to ruin a show that had me hooked hard with the interesting Sci-Fi idea.

I'm not even sure how to rate this, fucking what man.


Same man, same. Among all the good animes that I watched that were ruined by their crappy end this one is the worst. I gave it a 4 for the good musics and CGI but that's it. It deserves more a 3 or even a 2 tbh.

Jin_uzuki said:
Unless he really did EVERYTHING to surprise him, which means he wasted 16 years of Hanamori's life,


Hanamori's the true victim. Stay strong Hanamori.
Modified by kikusan, Jul 1, 2017 4:52 PM
 
Jul 1, 2017 7:44 PM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 8
I did enjoyed this final chapter, that was a superb use of Hegel's dialectics, and I'm pretty agree with those who see Yukika as a "mix" of the postures in debate, as a synthesis of them. I could complaint with the zaShunina's "humanization" pacing execution (that faces lol), but the main narrative and its ending is way beyond that.
Modified by dermaister, Jul 1, 2017 8:00 PM
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 157
This anime was rather unique. It has a powerful begining and most of it was wonderful, but how they ended it is a bit...
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:42 PM
Observer

Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5280
Rushed ending that used crappy anime tropes to resolve the conflict (their child being the chosen one). It had promise with the concept until it became a really badly paced shounen series.

I cannot express how disappointed I am.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
Jul 1, 2017 8:50 PM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4
It was entertaining I guess, and the first 7 or 8 episodes were strong enough to prevent this anime from being a painfully average piece of shit.

I gave it a 6/10. Any higher would have been too generous and unfair to the dozens of well-written animes I've given 7s and 8s.
 
Jul 1, 2017 9:31 PM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 75
AoKirisaki said:
I interpret the ending as humanity refusing evolution, honestly. zaShunina acted childish in the end because he gained human emotions, including selfishness and attachment to Shindo. He was a superior being who didn't have emotions and there was a void in him, I could compare him to Light from Death Note in that sense, who was a bored genius. Since he's been there from the beginning of the universe, I imagine he saw all he could see, and combined with him being unable to perceive emotions, he ultimately just wanted a friend. I believe that if Shindo wasn't rushed and influenced by Saraka, he would've been able to properly negotiate with zaShunina and cooperate to evolve the world in a way favorable to humans too. Having those technologies wasn't a bad thing. Of course, they could've been misused, but that risk is present in any form of progress. And there's mentioned that they were left with something very important, the knowledge that the fregonics exist and that they will maybe visit zaShunina on their own, with their own power - I don't see this possible, since getting to that level of progress would take so much time and resources and it's very possible that humanity won't even survive that long. zaShunina's initial intentions, before gaining human traits and drifting a little from his initial purpose in my opinion, were those of wanting to share his knowledge, and that was pretty much the essence of his objective, mutual information sharing. He initially didn't have any sense of good and evil, so I believe that his thoughts when he was in that state where the purest form of his intention, and since he wanted more and more information, he wouldn't want to destroy that very source. I think that Saraka's interference was bad, cause at that time he already gained human emotions and he probably felt cornered, he wanted Shindo for himself. He never had a friend before, he didn't know how to react, and he rushed things in order to secure the fact that Shindo won't go away. Everything was new to him, and he couldn't control his emotions, that could be seen pretty clearly when he was shown the video with Shindo and his daughter. He was indeed surprised, but he was also angry, confused and he probably felt betrayed, but he still held Shindo- his first friend- dear. After all that, he even rushed to him before being sent back to his dimension. To conclude, I'd like to say that I think that this is a story about the fear of the unknown, and maybe about the way people interpret concepts such as genius, divinity, progress. A higher being offered his knowledge to the humans, and humanity gave him in exchange human emotions. People ultimately rejected the sudden progress and chose to be left to their own devices, and drove away that being. I would've loved to see an ending where humanity actually managed to use that technology, but I find this ending kinda fitting.
Sorry for the barrage of text, I really wanted to say all this >.< I hope I was coherent xD
And this is just my opinion, by no means I'm saying it is the correct view or anything, it's just how I interpreted it. I would love to hear your opinion on this~


I deeply appreciate your empathetic perspective toward Yaha-kui zaShunina, thank you, you've given me some stuff to think about. I have a few thoughts to add:

Throughout Seikaisuru Kado, I think it was made pretty apparent that despite learning to value Shindo specifically, zaShunina always regarded humans as inferior to him, only useful as a means to an end. The very first thing zaShunina does is carelessly disrupt the lives of hundreds of individuals and then brainwash the first person who attempts to make contact! Even in the final encounter, it is true that zaShunina displays emotions and affection for Shindo, but his first response to Shindo's disobedience is a successful attempt at killing him. Also, if I remember correctly, he referred to humans as "lower dimensional beings" in that episode. I believe that, given some more time, zaShunina would have been able to develop a true love and respect for humans, but in the show we were never able to see zaShunina's attitude towards them go beyond the affection that an owner might have for a pet. I still have huge amounts of sympathy for him and his struggles to process his emotions, I just don't see him as very admirable, and his frankly sociopathic nature made his presence unacceptably dangerous to humanity.

Remember, we learn in the end that all the awesome developments brought to humanity by zaShunina only had their effect as long as he was interfering with their universe; removing zaShunina would unavoidably result in removing all the amazing gifts he brought, and again, zaShunina was a dangerous sociopath who regarded humans as little more than useful pets, humanity's well-being was not at all guaranteed under his care. While I think it is regrettable that zaShunina's rejection resulted in all the amazing advances humanity had made, I also think it was necessary- after all, if humankind IS able to pull through in the end and achieve a similar level of understanding and advancement to that which zaShunina temporarily gifted, such understanding would be stable and not subject to the whims of an all-powerful and reckless master. I do think that humanity one day achieving a similar level of comprehension is both possible and feasible, after all humanity now has some lofty goals that they might well decide to seek in unity.

I think it is relatively difficult to develop empathy for Saraka because her true character is only revealed during the final quarter of the show, but I have a lot of love for her. She is a primordial being who gave up most of her awesome anisotropic abilities in order to develop true love for a universe, and I really love that kind of devotion. Remember that before she interfered, zaShunina planned to slay Shindo and then replace him with a clone and then probably repeat that process again and again and again, desperately hoping that just one Shindo would agree with him and join him in the anisotropic. Saraka's interference literally saved Shindo countless deaths, and also in the end provided him with the ability to truly defeat zaShunina. In truth, though, I appreciate Saraka most as a metaphorical embodiment of a belief- the belief that humans are valuable as they are, and that there is something about human nature that should be preserved. zaShunina in return is a metaphorical embodiment of another belief- the belief that knowledge is the ultimate good, and that there is no sacrifice too great in the pursuit of more knowledge. Shindo, brainwashed by zaShunina and seduced by Saraka, sires a child who embodies and achieves a balance between these beliefs, beliefs that on their own each lead to strife and destruction.

I think Seikaisuru Kado is a parable about human nature, it is a teaching tool about the danger of unchecked desire for knowledge, and it is a reminder that even in our ignorant and pitiful current state, humans are able to create meaning in our world, and surely that meaning has value. I felt really uplifted by this show, and I only hope that my thoughts have added to yours even the tiniest bit.
 
Jul 1, 2017 10:14 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 326
anime tries to be deep -> mahou shoujo -> top 10 most epic anime NTR. 6/10
 
Jul 2, 2017 12:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 737
So bad it's funny.

And what could they throw us in the face as last bad idea to end this trainwreck in beauty?

...

A deus ex maquina!!! Yeah, a superior than superior being, a high speed bred daughter/highschool girl produce of a romance between a human and super hot alien tsundere with super powers !!!

Ha Ha Ha!

I loved aswell Zashuhina last minutes "character development", mental age falling down to a 4 years old boy with big psychological disorders. Amazing, but this one, we saw it coming with the last episodes.

At least in the beginning it was a kind of "food for brain" type of show but the middle-school mentality approach just destroyed everything.


One thing is sure, I won't forget this show, it's exceptional in its own way.
 
Jul 2, 2017 1:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 79
LeonLanford said:
Some of things confused me:

1. I'm confused about the daughter.. Hanamori said he raised her for 16 years. Where did he raised her? Parallel world? She seems to be wearing very generic school uniform.
So that means Shindo in this world is dead and Shindo is alive on the other parallel world? If that's true, how about Hanamori in the other parallel world? It's making me more confused the more I think about it.

2. Saraka's ring is supposed to be her seal? When she was young she didn't wear any ring, how come when she's in college she already wearing ring? If that ring is a seal, why did she not wear it since young? The ring has been zoomed in multiple times but there's no explanation about it.

3. Why did Shindo need to die? If she got that OP daughter I don't think he need to die? Is it for the dramatic plot? Did his death was a trigger to activate his daughter noble phantasm? I think the attack would be cooler if the summoned car hit Yahakui.

SabrinaKhuntia said:


Even though there wasn't some DBZ battle, I still found the ending to be shitty af. The focus of this show was how humanity responded to zaShunina's gifts, not just Shindo and Saraka but like the people as a collective whole and as individuals. What happened to the UN getting involved and all of that? And it's like the writers completely forgot about the Prime Minister of Japan, who actually had a decent role in the beginning, and then randomly brought him back in the finale because they remembered that governments would probably, I don't know, have an active role in all of this - or at least a significant reaction? There was so much potential with what they could've done after introducing the Sansa but instead, they switched to focusing on characters who were never even complex to begin with (other than the anisotropic). I said it before, but they even included a scene of Shindo's friend who we were apparently supposed to care about even though he is a random side charactes that had like a total of five minutes of screentime. Instead, they could've gone the route of showing:

- How the media would inevitably twist the truth in its presentation of what was going on
- How companies and corporations would take advantage of the situation
- How different world leaders would respond, and maybe even develop or change their viewpoint, as they got more and more gifts from zashu
- How there would be conflict within the scientific community in terms of what to do next

These are all plot points they set up in the first half. It wasn't just about Shindo and Saraka's response to the situation (and if it was, then I'd say the show wasn't even that great in the beginning then, since it's pretty unrealistic to expect a simple binary divide in thinking when it comes to something as complicated as this). I mean, to rephrase what I said earlier, those two were pretty one-dimensional, and that was alright since it was more about the philosophies of the individuals than the actual characters themselves. So switching the tone to make it heavily character-focused ended up turning this into a trainwreck imo.



This too. XD


Agreed.
I was disappointed after fake Shindo came out. Literally everyone just agreed what the fake Shindo said, they're like brainwashed.
Hanamori which is on par with Prime Minister also has been only in front of his desk all the time, no wonder Shindo refused the job.

Shindo was great at the prequel episode, I was expecting more like that. Meanwhile Saraka since the beginning does not have the attitude and behaviour of 'ace' negotiator, her boss was even worse. No wonder she's an ace at her department.


1. There were no parallel world or multi universe, they were just in sealed place somewhere near boundary

2. Who did make the ring and seal?

3. Just with no other anisotropic, Shindo's copy could have turn down Zashunina and teach him to love human's world (Why he should love human world where there are always wars going on different countries and humans kill each other?)
Why can't an anisotropic in higher dimension copy a human rightly? (Because cloning is bad?)
or take that crazy physicist girl to anisotropic, she would gladly come, Is Shindo special?

"DBZ level final battle"? Ending was more like Sailor Moon with no love

SongstressSL said:
Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final


Agreed, haha. Saraka was the true villain of the story. And for me, their daughter is just a plothole.

I agree that Saraka is the true villain.. She forced her ideals to Shindo(brainwashing), killed him, made Hanamori lost 16 years of his life and forced him to raise her daughter. I think she's laughing at the end on the background.

Masood_sama_XN said:
You know? Actually bad guy is Saraka for me, Up until EP9 ending everything was good
An anisotropic that have all humanity's dimensions and more, can't have a child with a human that has more dimensions and surpass anisotropics and how can two completely different being have a child?
The child grew up to 16 years old, what about the one who raised her, cooked for her, played with her... and not aged?
there is a PS4 in her room which she played and like there're no games to release in her future
7 up to EP9/5 to EP11/ and 4 after final


Her daughter is Shindo's noble phantasm! Read my post above :)
The one who raised her was Hanamori, he wasted 16 years for that.
Why does it need to be 16 years? Not 12? Not 14? 16 years is the exact trigger needed for noble phantasm!


26 years old Hanamori, after 16 years of life like prison, 42 years old Hanamori has no difference but just two wrinkle around his mouth which I didn't had notice at first
When Hanamori is supposed to raise her and not die at the end, why not be her biological father?
and her 16th birthday, his father funeral and she becoming an anisotropic murderer happens on same day
Modified by Masood_sama_XN, Jul 2, 2017 2:43 AM
 
Jul 2, 2017 6:47 AM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
they fucked up everything that this show has become such a joke and you can't help but laugh. lol
 
Top
Pages (5) « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »