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huge lack of respectable female protagonists or heroines in anime?

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Aug 20, 2017 2:43 PM
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Yes there are very few but only those which are well made if u count all the anime including the genres boys don't watch then there is no lack at all
If u count future diary madoka magical and kakegurui these are enough and I could go on but then it would be an essay not a post
Hope this helps
 
Aug 20, 2017 2:44 PM
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Yes there are very few but only those which are well made if u count all the anime including the genres boys don't watch then there is no lack at all
If u count future diary madoka magical and kakegurui these are enough and I could go on but then it would be an essay not a post
Hope this helps
 
Aug 20, 2017 2:53 PM

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There are tons.

Such as: Balsa Yonsa from Moribito, Saber from Fate series, Irisviel from Fate/Zero, Shirayuki from Snow White w/Red Hair, Nausica from Valley of the Wind, Homura from Madoka Magica, Major from Ghost in the Shell, Re-l Mayer from Ergo Proxy, Faye Valentine from Cowboy Bebop was ok, Eva AND Anna from Monster both were respectable by the end imo, Ai Tanabe from Planetes, Aoi Miyamori from Shirobako, Nanami from Kamisama Hajimemashita, Shouko from The Shape of Voice, Ruler from Fate/Apocrypha might be a good character this season, there were also some good female characters in Hibike Euphonium, Michiko from Michiko & Hatchin was badass, any female character from HxH (2011)..

But yeah, there are respectable female characters. Just depends what you're looking for I guess.
Modified by Zelev, Aug 20, 2017 2:58 PM





Three things cannot be long hidden..
...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th.


 
Aug 20, 2017 4:20 PM

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kaijuguy19 said:
Like others said there's plenty of respectable and well written heroines in anime. I'll give my own examples.

Misty from Pokémon
The heroines from Digimon Adventure 01 and 02.
Ryuko Matoi from Kill La Kill
Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell
Winry,Hawkeye and the other heroines from Full Metal Alchemist and FMA Brotherhood
Kagome from Inuyasha
Akane from Ranma 1/2
The Studio Ghibli heroines

Just to name a few so there's really not a lot of lack of them.

Also am I the only one here who feels like there's a huge level of hypocrisy when it comes to how a female character ought to look,act and do in order to be respectable? Like most people demand for female characters to have larger and meaningful roles with more character depth and diversity to them yet those same people also say that unless that female character is not sexualized,not feminine,and not "soft" They cannot be taken seriously and respected. I know I'm using the more extreme examples here but still the fact that female characters of ANY medium let alone anime are starting to be judged harshly by what type of character they are even if that character is extremely well written regardless of what type of character she is and/or how she looks just comes across as hypocritical because you're still restricting what kind of female character you're trying to create just in a different fashion. Not to mention it's extremely insulting to some real life women who are more interested in being feminine or looking a little sexy because then they're made to look like fools or objects which is ironic given the whole point of wanting more strong female characters is to not label them in insulting tropes or group.

This isn't meant to be a jab at the original poster. It's just something I've wanted to say for some time.

TRUTH!!!!

When ppl Dislike a show (or Character) because of included sexyness then I truly Wonder if they actually would've liked the show (or Character) if it didn't have any of that.
yes maybe Fanservice might Distract ppl in Serious Situations, but That can also be the same with a poorly timed Joke in a Serious Situation Which is bad writing.
When I dislike a show that has Fanservice in it then I dislike it because of the Writing being SHIT in my opinion and not because it has fanservice in it.

LucisCaelum said:
Bourmegar said:

erm pls explain, I am not well known with Berserk enough yet.

She is archetypal character. Stronk girl. Maybe even tsundere, don't remember it that well. "Needs to be protected". Also, she did close to zero for plot. Following one dude (Who only used her for his own personal gain) is pretty much everything she does and just killed one guy of importance iirc. Oh, and every random guy wants to rape her (Someone even raped her).

Elizabeth (of Seven Deadly Sins) did WAY more, love is not THAT superficial, bacause... they will explore it more and nobody wants to rape her. Both of them are used for fanservice, so yeah... it sounds paradoxic.

And I think, there is a huge lack of fine characters in general. Thats normal for any medium of story-telling, I guess.

Especially with Anime it seems.....

Maybe Caska gets more Respect because she is portrayed more Seriously then Dianne? (7 deadly sins is a fun Show really and I am glad that we will FINALLY get a second Season.) I don't know...
 
Aug 20, 2017 5:21 PM

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I only watched 18 anime but I found some respectable female characters and maybe you'll like them

- Steins Gate: Makise Kurisu and Amane Suzuha
- Gintama: Imai Nobume, Tsukuyo and Kagura
- Shirobako: Miyamori Aoi, Sakaki Shizuka, Ema Yasuhara, Misa Todo, Diesel San, Erika Yano, Goth Loli Sama and Yumi Iguchi
- Garden of Words: Yukari Yukino
- Overlord: Narberal Gamma
- Eyeshield 21: Anezaki Mamori
- One Piece: Nico Robin and Belle Mere
- Fairy Tail: Ur

There are many respectable female characters in Claymore but i didn't watch the anime i just read the manga
Modified by kikiabdull, Aug 20, 2017 6:23 PM
 
Aug 20, 2017 10:09 PM
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Kenna_Pyralis said:
There is a HUGE amount of female characters who are just archetypes (anything that ends in "dere" these days), Moe blobs, cute for the sake of being cute, very generic, bland, needs to be "protected" and only there for fan service induced cancer instead of actual respectable mentally strong/have their own ideals which isn't something like "Kirito-sama!". (btw the list goes on) basically anything otaku bait. I am no feminist by today's definition but can we have someone like Shirayuki(snow white with red hair), Caska during gold age arc(berserk) or in non-animemovie some like Katniss Everdeen(from hunger games) or Beatrice Prior(from divergant).

It really saddens me when the top 50 most popular anime on MAL does not have a single main female lead that isn't otaku bait, bland love interest, female archetype or just a fanservice female model(I challenge you on that btw). even though its not in the top 50 most popular look at seven deadly sins as an example. Elizabeth is a bland fan service model who pretends to have her own ideals but in reality gathering the sins is an excuse to be with meliodas-sama(at least she does not take the goal seriously imo) and a 1 dimensional love interest. nothing respectable in the least. the same with diane "Meliodas-sama" and fanservice model love interest with no real ideals of her own.


What I am trying to say is that I can like these characters but I cannot respect these characters. Is there any prevalent respectable female characters in anime with their own ideals and why is this a very unpopular trend in anime fans?


I totally disagree with you and with others who agree with you.
There are a lot of respectable female characters that it will be very difficult to name them all . For example :
Hana from Ookami Kodomo no Ame to Yuki.
Celty from DRRR!!
Nagisa from Clannad
Akame
Falangies from Arslan Senki
Miho from Bakuman
Misaki from Maid Sama
Kiryuuin Satsuki
Erza from Fairy Tail
Riza Hawkeye
Nishimiya Shouko from Koe no Katachi

And these are just a faction of the list. If you don't think these ladies as respectable , well then there is no point in even talking to you .

And as far as females in Top 50 are concerned , I think all of them have a very unique character and that is why people like them.
I don't what the term " respectable " means to you but the way you said that it sounded like you are saying females in Top 50 are bitches or sluts.
In conclusion , what you said is the worst thing I have ever heard regarding anime and as I said earlier , I absolutely disagree with you.
 
Aug 21, 2017 12:22 AM

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Kizaru2000 said:
Asuna is literally the definition of tsundere

Which Asuna? I guess Sword Art Online's Asuna.
No, she isn't the definition of tsundere. Tohsaka Rin is the definition of tsundere. (and the concept is even older)
Asuna isn't even that good at fitting the modern definition of tsundere. You will not find her blushing and saying something like "I'm not doing it because I like you!". She is just a high-spec girl that warms up to the protagonist as the story goes on.

Bourmegar said:
Maybe Caska gets more Respect because she is portrayed more Seriously then Dianne? (7 deadly sins is a fun Show really and I am glad that we will FINALLY get a second Season.) I don't know...

More like, Berserk is a critically-approved grimdark anime, and that's why people go out of their way to praise it, regardless of how good a particular element is.
 
Aug 21, 2017 1:11 AM

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Bourmegae said:
LucisCaelum said:

She is archetypal character. Stronk girl. Maybe even tsundere, don't remember it that well. "Needs to be protected". Also, she did close to zero for plot. Following one dude (Who only used her for his own personal gain) is pretty much everything she does and just killed one guy of importance iirc. Oh, and every random guy wants to rape her (Someone even raped her).

Elizabeth (of Seven Deadly Sins) did WAY more, love is not THAT superficial, bacause... they will explore it more and nobody wants to rape her. Both of them are used for fanservice, so yeah... it sounds paradoxic.

And I think, there is a huge lack of fine characters in general. Thats normal for any medium of story-telling, I guess.

Especially with Anime it seems.....

Maybe Caska gets more Respect because she is portrayed more Seriously then Dianne? (7 deadly sins is a fun Show really and I am glad that we will FINALLY get a second Season.) I don't know...


Dunno, really. For me Anime characters > Live-Action characters and I have seen more movies than anime.
I don't remember live-action women being as good as Yonsa Balsa, Hawkey, Armstrong, Re-L Mayer, Lisa Lisa, Yukako, Youko, Lain, Doc, Palm or Nausicaa. Maybe even men. And there is Alita and other JoJos to adapt...

Caska? Portrayed (more) seriously (than Diane)? When MC does everything for her, is only used by her leader (Bacause following him is her only raison d'etre), everybody wants to rape her (One did it) and her development was to become a waifu of MC? Maybe bacause its edgy?

No, I don't think so. At least Diane is way more important and is not disrespected on left and right in-verse. Also, she is one of the strongest giants. SDS's females are not really great characters, but its weird when "They are archetypes, who are not respectable, so give me more Caska".
Modified by N1eR, Aug 21, 2017 6:56 AM
 
Aug 21, 2017 9:02 AM

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Kizaru2000 said:
If Asuna is not a tsundere then explain why she literally becomes princess peach in the second part of SAO

1) Becoming a damsel in distress is not a defining characteristic of tsundere. While a tsundere, if she is also "samurai girl", is likely to get in over her head and need rescuing, an arc worth of rescuing is more common with sweet girls.

2) Because the author wrote it so. It is a classic plotline, and it is probably not as distasteful for the author as it is for the western audience.
 
Aug 21, 2017 9:08 AM
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FMA brotherhood got the full package

Olivier Armstrong


Izumi Curtis


Riza Hawkeye


Winry Rockbell


 
Aug 21, 2017 3:25 PM

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LucisCaelum said:
Bourmegae said:

Especially with Anime it seems.....

Maybe Caska gets more Respect because she is portrayed more Seriously then Dianne? (7 deadly sins is a fun Show really and I am glad that we will FINALLY get a second Season.) I don't know...


Dunno, really. For me Anime characters > Live-Action characters and I have seen more movies than anime.
I don't remember live-action women being as good as Yonsa Balsa, Hawkey, Armstrong, Re-L Mayer, Lisa Lisa, Yukako, Youko, Lain, Doc, Palm or Nausicaa. Maybe even men. And there is Alita and other JoJos to adapt...

Caska? Portrayed (more) seriously (than Diane)? When MC does everything for her, is only used by her leader (Bacause following him is her only raison d'etre), everybody wants to rape her (One did it) and her development was to become a waifu of MC? Maybe bacause its edgy?

No, I don't think so. At least Diane is way more important and is not disrespected on left and right in-verse. Also, she is one of the strongest giants. SDS's females are not really great characters, but its weird when "They are archetypes, who are not respectable, so give me more Caska".

mmm ok then well I think that this following Quote will be a good answer to the Question

flannan said:

Bourmegar said:
Maybe Caska gets more Respect because she is portrayed more Seriously then Dianne? (7 deadly sins is a fun Show really and I am glad that we will FINALLY get a second Season.) I don't know...

More like, Berserk is a critically-approved grimdark anime, and that's why people go out of their way to praise it, regardless of how good a particular element is.
 
Aug 21, 2017 3:41 PM

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There are plenty of respectable female characters... but they're overshadowed by fanservice and... "waifu's"

People like a good heroine, but they also love their cute girl with big boobs, bitch who'll beat the shit out of their love interest, slutty girl who'll fuck any nerd, and badass heroine who's insanely in love with yet again, another nerd.

So, it sells a lot better than a female with realistic anatomy and self-respect ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Aug 21, 2017 3:47 PM

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Bourmegar said:
LucisCaelum said:


Dunno, really. For me Anime characters > Live-Action characters and I have seen more movies than anime.
I don't remember live-action women being as good as Yonsa Balsa, Hawkey, Armstrong, Re-L Mayer, Lisa Lisa, Yukako, Youko, Lain, Doc, Palm or Nausicaa. Maybe even men. And there is Alita and other JoJos to adapt...

Caska? Portrayed (more) seriously (than Diane)? When MC does everything for her, is only used by her leader (Bacause following him is her only raison d'etre), everybody wants to rape her (One did it) and her development was to become a waifu of MC? Maybe bacause its edgy?

No, I don't think so. At least Diane is way more important and is not disrespected on left and right in-verse. Also, she is one of the strongest giants. SDS's females are not really great characters, but its weird when "They are archetypes, who are not respectable, so give me more Caska".

mmm ok then well I think that this following Quote will be a good answer to the Question

flannan said:


More like, Berserk is a critically-approved grimdark anime, and that's why people go out of their way to praise it, regardless of how good a particular element is.

Well... That's Berserk in a nutshell D:
 
Aug 21, 2017 3:54 PM

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As has been said by everyone so far; you aren't looking hard enough. There are so many anime with strong female leads. You should have made this question "looking for strong female protagonists" and you would have probably gotten a large list of anime you've never seen that met all your requirements. Also, why do these characters, or anime, have to be in the top 50 of any list? I'm not being misogynist, I'm only asking why? Do they have to triple their production of strong female protagonists until it equal with male, is that what you want? The consumers decide what is popular or not, we can't force things to be some way for some kind of ideal we hold, let the chips fall where they may.
 
Aug 21, 2017 7:10 PM

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What bugs me about this is that it is actually incredibly easy to find *sigh* respectable female characters in anime, girls with goals, complex emotional schemes, strength and/or will. They are everywhere, and they tend to be quite memorable to me. I mean, it's not that the live action medium is more or less filled with great female characters, but there's something about the imagery of anime that makes these characters more iconic.

I don't personally feel that much interested in conventional action heroines but even in that case, wherever you look there's like eight hundred of them.
 
Aug 21, 2017 9:38 PM

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IMO, there are plenty of strong women in anime

There aren't that many strong women who aren't sexualized in some way.

existentialist said:
Also, why do these characters, or anime, have to be in the top 50 of any list? I'm not being misogynist, I'm only asking why?

So the way I see it, there's two options here:

1) The community is sexist and consistently looks down on female protagonists despite them being of equal merit to male protagonists

2) Not as much time and attention is being given to female protagonists, and/or they're being compromised in some way that cheapens their character. Overall impact being that the average female protagonist is "worse" than the average male.

At the end of the day, if it's not a fairly even split in a "top ## anime" list, then gender is the only real discriminator and misogyny is the cause somewhere along the line, either in production or consumption.
 
Aug 21, 2017 10:59 PM

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DirtyYogurt said:
existentialist said:
Also, why do these characters, or anime, have to be in the top 50 of any list? I'm not being misogynist, I'm only asking why?

So the way I see it, there's two options here:

1) The community is sexist and consistently looks down on female protagonists despite them being of equal merit to male protagonists

2) Not as much time and attention is being given to female protagonists, and/or they're being compromised in some way that cheapens their character. Overall impact being that the average female protagonist is "worse" than the average male.

At the end of the day, if it's not a fairly even split in a "top ## anime" list, then gender is the only real discriminator and misogyny is the cause somewhere along the line, either in production or consumption.

Well, look at the top list, and you will see - it is dominated by protagonists of famous anime. Especially the very top.
And most of these famous anime are shounen action anime, with male protagonists.
There are main female characters of famous anime there too, but these anime don't get as mainstream.

By the way, there are 15 female characters in the top 50. Not bad, but not equality either.
 
Aug 21, 2017 11:34 PM

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flannan said:
By the way, there are 15 female characters in the top 50. Not bad, but not equality either.


So let's touch on that, I'll grab the first five and break down my beef with how anime treats female protagonists. In no particular order:

1) Taiga Asuka:
She's a romantic foil to another male MC. Her existence and importance in the show is tied to her relation with a man. In all fairness to Taiga, the same criticism could be leveled at Ryuuji, but for me that criticism lacks impact when applied to him because it's not part of a larger trend with male characters.

2) Hitagi Senjougahara:
Her importance in the show is determined by her relationship to Araragi. Similar to my complaint with Taiga, but worse since she's just one of many orbiting characters even if she's the most important to Araragi. The vast majority of what she says and does is in relation to him. IE, take away Araragi, how much of her character remains? We know her personality and backstory, but what actions within the show are left?

3) Mikasa Ackerman:
Perfect example of what I'd like to see more of. She is strong, independent, and capable. Her relationship with Eren could drastically change and it wouldn't alter her character or place in the show. EDIT: credit where credit is due, pretty much all the women in AoT can be praised similarly. This show really hits the nail on the head with handling its characters.

4 & 5) Yuno Gasai & Kurisu Makise
I haven't seen either of these shows so I'll keep my complaints brief. One is described as being a yandere obsessed with a man, the other is characterized as a tsundere. This leads me to believe a lot of how their characters are built is based on their interactions with men.

To sum all this up, my biggest complaint is that so few women are allowed to be great characters without a significant portion of who they are being built around their romantic attachment to the men they share the screen with. If you look at the men on the list, while many of them have relationships with women the bulk of who their character is is built independent of the women's influence and presence. Most of the women in that top 50 reinforce how I feel.

IMO, favorite woman in any anime, Balsa from Seirei no Moribito. Her motivation are duty bound, rather than romantic and the boy's passiveness places her squarely in control and her decisions tend to exist without direct input from any male character.
Modified by DirtyYogurt, Aug 21, 2017 11:57 PM
 
Aug 22, 2017 12:31 AM

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DirtyYogurt said:
flannan said:
By the way, there are 15 female characters in the top 50. Not bad, but not equality either.


So let's touch on that, I'll grab the first five and break down my beef with how anime treats female protagonists. In no particular order:

1) Taiga Asuka:
She's a romantic foil to another male MC. Her existence and importance in the show is tied to her relation with a man. In all fairness to Taiga, the same criticism could be leveled at Ryuuji, but for me that criticism lacks impact when applied to him because it's not part of a larger trend with male characters.

2) Hitagi Senjougahara:
Her importance in the show is determined by her relationship to Araragi. Similar to my complaint with Taiga, but worse since she's just one of many orbiting characters even if she's the most important to Araragi. The vast majority of what she says and does is in relation to him. IE, take away Araragi, how much of her character remains? We know her personality and backstory, but what actions within the show are left?

3) Mikasa Ackerman:
Perfect example of what I'd like to see more of. She is strong, independent, and capable. Her relationship with Eren could drastically change and it wouldn't alter her character or place in the show. EDIT: credit where credit is due, pretty much all the women in AoT can be praised similarly. This show really hits the nail on the head with handling its characters.

4 & 5) Yuno Gasai & Kurisu Makise
I haven't seen either of these shows so I'll keep my complaints brief. One is described as being a yandere obsessed with a man, the other is characterized as a tsundere. This leads me to believe a lot of how their characters are built is based on their interactions with men.

To sum all this up, my biggest complaint is that so few women are allowed to be great characters without a significant portion of who they are being built around their romantic attachment to the men they share the screen with. If you look at the men on the list, while many of them have relationships with women the bulk of who their character is is built independent of the women's influence and presence. Most of the women in that top 50 reinforce how I feel.

IMO, favorite woman in any anime, Balsa from Seirei no Moribito. Her motivation are duty bound, rather than romantic and the boy's passiveness places her squarely in control and her decisions tend to exist without direct input from any male character.

1) Aisaka Taiga. Well, ToraDora is romance, so everything that's going on in that anime is defined by their romantic relationships.

2,3 ) I haven't actually seen Monogatari series or Attack on Titan (dropped them on episode 1), so I'll take your word on it.
5) I haven't seen enough Steins;Gate to give feedback on Makise Kurisu either. She looks like she'll do fine without any relationships.

4) Yuno Gasai. Yuno is strong and capable, but the opposite of independent. She defines her place in the world by her relationship with the male lead. Because she's crazy, and their relationship is portrayed as obviously unhealthy.
She is no role model, but from a feminist perspective, having a protagonist like her is a good thing. Girls aren't meant to be put on a pedestal.
By the way, I consider Yuno to be the protagonist, and the male lead to be a point-of-view character, like Dr. Watson for Sherlock Holmes.

Finally, there is a bunch of female characters in the top 50 who are not defined by romantic relationships. Saber, Suzumiya Haruhi, Erza Scarlet and Izumi Konata surely aren't. Asuna and Horo probably depend on interpretation. There is more of them in the second 50 favorites.
 
Aug 22, 2017 1:04 AM

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flannan said:
She is no role model, but from a feminist perspective, having a protagonist like her is a good thing. Girls aren't meant to be put on a pedestal.
By the way, I consider Yuno to be the protagonist, and the male lead to be a point-of-view character, like Dr. Watson for Sherlock Holmes.

Finally, there is a bunch of female characters in the top 50 who are not defined by romantic relationships. Saber, Suzumiya Haruhi, Erza Scarlet and Izumi Konata surely aren't. Asuna and Horo probably depend on interpretation. There is more of them in the second 50 favorites.


You have a good point about Yuno if you appraise her in a vacuum, ignoring her place in a broader trend. That broader trend being women whose characters, good as they may be written, revolve around men.

Case in point, you list a handful of female characters that I would like to see more of, but out of 50 characters maybe 5 or 6 are women whose characters extend well beyond their romantic interactions with men. It's not that I want to see the women on this list go away. By criticizing, I'm not trying to argue that the status quo is bad and every woman needs to be expertly crafted and independent. I just want to see more Mikasa's, more Balsa's, more Kino's, and less generic black haired dude MC #673.

I love women characters like that because, since they're women, writers are more comfortable having them portray a wider range of emotions and do so with more sincerity. This ties back to one of my bigger complaints with anime as a whole, which is the reliance on established archetypes. It make characters feel more like checklists than people. When my sort of ideal women get written, it's all about eschewing these stereotypes and we that opens up a whole world of possibilities to writers. In almost every case, I feel this leads to better characters being written. And while I'm focusing this post on how this all relates back to women characters, the same applies to men.
 
Aug 22, 2017 8:55 PM

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DirtyYogurt said:
IMO, there are plenty of strong women in anime

There aren't that many strong women who aren't sexualized in some way.

existentialist said:
Also, why do these characters, or anime, have to be in the top 50 of any list? I'm not being misogynist, I'm only asking why?

So the way I see it, there's two options here:

1) The community is sexist and consistently looks down on female protagonists despite them being of equal merit to male protagonists

2) Not as much time and attention is being given to female protagonists, and/or they're being compromised in some way that cheapens their character. Overall impact being that the average female protagonist is "worse" than the average male.

At the end of the day, if it's not a fairly even split in a "top ## anime" list, then gender is the only real discriminator and misogyny is the cause somewhere along the line, either in production or consumption.


Well there is a third option: Because of the proportion of strong male leads compared to strong female leads in anime is heavily on one side, the proportion of good anime with good leads is also bent in that direction. We would only expect equal numbers if the quantity was the same, unless we posit the quality of female lead anime is better, but I see no reason to draw that conclusion.

I'd say this is the main reason. Though your other points about how female characters are written is sound, there just aren't as many good female leads as male leads, do to the fact there aren't as many anime created where the lead is female.
 
Nov 19, 2017 2:19 PM
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What is wrong with wanting to respect the characters. After all love tends to turn cruel, selfish, and twisted when there is no repect. Also there are woman in shounen that are strong willed, smart characters, with self respect for themselves but they are lacking in numbers. Shounen is also not forever connected to fan service type shows it is a genre that is appealing to boys and that is all it means the fan service is there because that is what companies think they like but that is why I also agree to step away from top 50 you have to dig a little to find certain shounen. For instance I think psycho pass is shounen the girl is very smart and mentally strong and I think at one time it had high ratings. That brings me to another topic anime that are shounen also tend to go into more violent, psychological, and more political themes without going too dark unlike other genre and many girls want to watch them too. I know some boys like the girl character for the role they play in fan service type anime but we are suppose to teach this generation to respect females and it is nearly impossible when the media that people are expose to are not helping. Girls are not the ones who need to always take the first step boys have to help too. I know some of you may disagree on this issue however message boards are to express our opinions respectfully so please do not be too disrespectful to another person opinion by using crude words and only state your arguement and try to properly hear them out. Oh I also understand shoujo has the same issues it is not a singular genre and there are also always exceptions to any rule and I understand that. We don’t have to agree just look at it from someone else’s perspective. And on the part where they say that there ideals and ambition are not there and are only for the boy that is not true either, a person can achieve their ambition and still want to achieve with the person they care for. Thanks for hearing me out and keep a open mind to all possibilities.
Modified by Nameforthenaive, Nov 19, 2017 2:24 PM
 
Nov 20, 2017 7:20 AM

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Why isn't Asuna, Elizabeth respectable?
Is it wrong if I respect them?

And "all top main female leads are otaku bait, bland love interest, female archetype or just a fanservice female model" is just your subjective opinion.

There are a lot of strong, independent female characters like Revy, Saber, Erza, ...

But what if I don't like these strong girls and I think they are boring.

Anime is a medium that serves for all type of fans, that why we need cute, moeblob for people who like that type of girls.

After all, don't force everyone to follow your taste. You like strong female characters doesn't mean anyone must like these characters like you.
 
Nov 20, 2017 1:11 PM

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I dislike most of the top 50 to begin with.
Only character I know of that I admire is Homura, due to her having to endure so much bs and only going crazy near the end of it all.
(Compared to Sayaka, who went crazy once just 1 thing didn't go her way)

I admire her stamina.

But I could be biased due to having gone through a similar event myself... who knows.
 
Nov 20, 2017 1:51 PM

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Oh hey, bait thread for me!



THINGS I'VE SEEN IN ANIME

* girls leave comfortable home lives to participate in a political rebellion
* girls operate military outpost, maintain good relations with townsfolk
* two girls are amongst the most elite covert/special ops agents in the entire galaxy, and their actions can have huge economic and political ramifications
* the first high school girl to go to space -- no, wait, the first two or three
* girls recruited into special mini-mech military unit, also do rescue work on the side
* the cool girls are the ones who are stationed in space; we're still stuck manning their cleanup duty here on Earth. I wish we could go to space too and be like them!
* princess explores ancient ruins, dives deep into the mysteries of the world, and keeps political opponents and even assassins at bay, all in an unlikely bid to give peace a chance
* two more than two? assassins, one ancient conspiracy
* programmer high school girl tasked with saving space station and Earth from natural disaster
* oh hey, all of these pop idol girls you thought were just half-baked combinations of tropes? they actually have interesting personalities and lives.
* this girl is god, and she doesn't even know it
* girls tasked with rescuing survivors in radiation-tainted city ruins
* three girls transported to another world and tasked with saving the princess. at least, that's what they're told.
* five girls explore the meaning and sacrifices of heroism
* girl makes friends (repeatedly) through use of good diplomacy aided by a big (magical) stick
* girl makes a friend through magical mixed martial arts
* girl works to convince people not to fight nature, but to live with it
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Nov 20, 2017 1:54 PM
 
Nov 20, 2017 1:51 PM

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Nausicaä and Erin are the absolute cream of the crop.
 
Nov 26, 2017 7:32 AM

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I'm simply amazed by the amount of buzzwords and memes OP managed to cram into his post, and I would guess based on it that he has seen maybe five or so anime, since everything he says is in complete opposition to reality. Yet, his list shows over 200 completed TV anime. What's strange is that it's not even unusual to see people make these complaints, even though, again, they are in complete opposition to reality.

AI-Anon said:
There are decent female characters out there. Unfortunately the industry is male dominated and it was thought for many years that females were only interested in love stories, tragic or otherwise. You also have to take in the culture aspect. Women in Japan were meant to be subservient and have an male imposed image of how they should behave and even speak. Things are progressing though.

The overwhelming increase in fan service is down to cold hard cash. The reality is that there is a long standing male audience.

In the end, if you require an anime with a solid female character/characters, then you may have to put pen to paper yourself for the time being. There is hope for the future. Writers are becoming more aware that they have a strong female fan base that is steadily growing larger and that money can be made from us too.

Here's another one (and surely only one of many, but I didn't read the thread further). She's seen a lot of anime, but her interpretation of it is complete fantasy, like she just took some pre-existing feminist narrative based on American culture and slapped it on top of anime. How does this keep happening?

My brothers room mate said there is now a Female Hentai writer. Maybe not a strong anime character and not what your thread is about. But hell.....A female that has managed to infiltrate what is a totally male dominated genre obviously has strength of character and the conviction in her ability to enter this field, is a Hero in my eyes.

Women have always dominated the production of pornographic fan-made manga. Comiket, the largest event where these (and other things) are published, has only recently become almost gender equal due to increased male participation. There's lots of women creating commercially released pornographic manga as well. Urusei Yatsura, likely the prototype for the entire harem genre, was even made by a woman, Rumiko Takahashi. The anime and manga industries in general are full of women.
 
Nov 26, 2017 7:52 AM

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To Love Ru has plenty of respectable girls and heroines.

I'm being 100% serious on this.
 
Nov 26, 2017 8:13 AM
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this is a problem with every media, not just anime, look at Holywood
BUT..., you didn't look hard enough, let just limit ourself to the top 50 like you said
- Winry from FMA:B, Kurisu from Stein;Gate, Shouko from Koe no Katachi, Kaori from Your lied in April, Saber from Fate/Zero
Satisfy? of course not, they're pretty good female protag alright, but they can still be listed in the "fan service" model you're talking about, that's if you're being very, Very critic
this next is a list of the Female protag that you don't f*ck with, Ever:
- Senjougahara from Monogatari seri, Riko from Made in Abyss, Chihiro from Spirit Away, Valentine from Cowboy Bebop, San from Princess Mononoke, Hana from Wolf Children, Haruhi and Nagato from Haruhi seri, Yoko from Gurren Lagann, Sophie from Howl's moving Castle, the Sisters in March come in like a Lion.
 
Nov 29, 2017 6:08 AM

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I find the lack of respectable posters here as disappointing.
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed"


-Swagernator 2017
 
Nov 30, 2017 10:00 AM

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Kenna_Pyralis said:
There is a HUGE amount of female characters who are just archetypes (anything that ends in "dere" these days), Moe blobs, cute for the sake of being cute, very generic, bland, needs to be "protected" and only there for fan service induced cancer instead of actual respectable mentally strong/have their own ideals which isn't something like "Kirito-sama!". (btw the list goes on) basically anything otaku bait. I am no feminist by today's definition but can we have someone like Shirayuki(snow white with red hair), Caska during gold age arc(berserk) or in non-animemovie some like Katniss Everdeen(from hunger games) or Beatrice Prior(from divergant).

It really saddens me when the top 50 most popular anime on MAL does not have a single main female lead that isn't otaku bait, bland love interest, female archetype or just a fanservice female model(I challenge you on that btw). even though its not in the top 50 most popular look at seven deadly sins as an example. Elizabeth is a bland fan service model who pretends to have her own ideals but in reality gathering the sins is an excuse to be with meliodas-sama(at least she does not take the goal seriously imo) and a 1 dimensional love interest. nothing respectable in the least. the same with diane "Meliodas-sama" and fanservice model love interest with no real ideals of her own.


What I am trying to say is that I can like these characters but I cannot respect these characters. Is there any prevalent respectable female characters in anime with their own ideals and why is this a very unpopular trend in anime fans?



I can feel your frustration.

There are however some more "hidden" anime which do have respectable and dignified female protagonists. (Avoid Otome anime btw)

Kino's Journey is one I've always loved because Kino is an individual doing things for herself, not for any man or any other woman. It's all her own ideals, her own dream, her own actions. I think you'd love her if you liked Katniss and Beatrice, as she's also particularly skilled in combat and self defense. Her background story (which is only shown in one of the movies also shows how she was when she was younger, and how she developed from that innocent young girl into the matured toughened woman she is now)
Luckily, Kino's Journey has multiple series and movies to enjoy, including a new anime series that is airing now (though I must say, I would recommend starting with the older series because the new one seems to lean towards becoming more moe-fied with the new female side characters, though Kino herself remains awesome as always).

I'd highly recommend the first arc of "Otogi-Zoushi", as this is definitely what you would love if you like the non-fetishized female warrior type. She's sort of like a mix of Mulan and Katniss. She is taking the place of her brother (in disguise) and defends herself with a bow and arrow. The anime itself has a very realistic art-style opposite of moe, and it takes place in medieval Japan, which is hard to find anime taking place that long ago.

Ancient Magus' Bride is a recent one and may or may not be what you like. For me it started awesome and I love the heroine not being sexualized or loli (plus she has a normal voice!), but I can also see some problems such as her reliance on the male not really getting better so far (on episode 8 now), though I'm HOPING that she develops through the anime. It also had one recent episode with a fairy queen with huuuuge exaggerated hentai tits, so... I'm kind of wavering. I feel like I continue to watch it because our standards just have to be so low to enjoy anime.

There was also another one I enjoyed called "Aoharu x Kikanjuu", where the heroine is a boyish-looking girl with a strong sense of justice, and the anime is about a survival-competition with toy guns (it's more action-packed and intense than you'd think). She's not treated as a girl at all in the entire anime (though, it's due to all the guys assuming she's a boy). I figured if you like Hunger Games, you may like this too. If you like Ouran Highschool Host Club, you also would probably like it, as they have a similar premise of "you break it, you work for it".

I remember a few years ago there was an anime called "Soredemo Sekai wa Utsukushii", which maybe you would like as it is a shoujo/josei with a more mature-looking (non-loli) protagonist with a normal adult voice, and a non-moe, yet perky personality with sense of humor. The only iffy thing is that the male love interest (?) is an underaged boy, not sure if that is something to you. I'm not actually sure if they're lovers or just marriage for the family status type of deal. From what I watched there wasn't anything romantic about them going on since they don't seem to even get along at first.

If you are okay with manga (actually it's Taiwanese manhua), I'd recommend "Half Prince", because that deals with an assertive/confident female gamer, an adult and not a high-schooler, not sexualized/moe-fied at all. Some side characters are moe, though, but she actually makes a point to criticize that in the beginning. Plus it's an MMORPG, so it's kind of like a story of a girl going through a space that is typically male's. She's shown to have the desires that anime normally hides, such as attraction to beautiful male characters (which she makes as her own character).

On that topic, there's also "Kiss Him Not Me" which features a protag who isn't shy about proclaiming her love for beautiful anime guys and BL/yaoi. There is a bit of problem with how the guys treat her at first, though, and the unrealisticness of her weight loss. Other than that, I enjoyed it, though. It was refreshing to see an anime that shows a female otaku character being a pervert for anime guys for once (and not the female otaku being perv for male-oriented hentai). XD

Similar to that is Watamote, a comedy anime, which has a protag who also is an otaku/fujoshi, though the anime seems to get tamer and tamer with the fujoshi stuff as it goes on and leans more to moe with her female friend. I didn't really continue watching it after that, so I don't know if it gets better or not. I did like how the protagonist is essentially the opposite of mary-sue, even considered unattractive, though. It was highly realistic for comedy. She also has crippling anxiety, which is a LOT like myself irl, so I could easily relate to things like having trouble talking to classmates and making friends. It was actually the most realistic portrayal of Anxiety disorder (complete with awkwardness) that I had ever seen in anime or even in any form of media. Not the stereotypical shy girl act that moe anime loves to abuse.

Well, yeah, sadly there's not that many anime with such great female characters... so I've been mostly saving myself from the stress of sifting through the countless male-otaku-bait stuff, and primarily falling back on watching "fujoshi" anime or anime with all-male casts, when there's no new anime I can find with respectable heroines.

I actually find that I typically relate more closely to a lot of male anime characters (without romance/fanservice, or yaoi only), so I actually tend to prefer watching such male-protag anime nowadays, particularly Yaoi because it's romance that doesn't suffer from "doormat girly-girl syndrome" that even a lot of shoujo anime does, and almost all Otome anime suffers from. You know, stuff like where they draw the anime girl always with her knees stuck together, or running all princess-like and having high-pitched falsetto voices. =_=
I couldn't stand shoujo anime like "Hatsukoi Monster" because of the heroine being so extremely cliche girly-moe, and felt like I was watching an anime made for male lolicon otaku, as it would even go as far to do those upskirt angles to her in a miniskirt, and she looks 10 or younger (loli).

If that's how anime will portray girls, I'd rather relate to feminine anime males that don't suffer those things. Like I am 4'11", so height isn't the issue for me, it's when they draw her to look really like a child while the guy looks completely adult, and she looks like a different species with eyes 100x bigger than any of the guys, and a baby's head. I can understand if it's just the art style for BOTH genders, like Clannad draws both girls and guys very cutesy/young-looking, but when it's a very tall mature-looking man with a chibi-looking girl, it's just ugh.

It's kind of sad that even the girls who are very feminine-looking in the shows I talked about above, are considered by Japan's standards to have "tomboy" or "manly" personalities, as if it's abnormal for women to have their own life and desires and opinions.
Modified by Pikangie, Nov 30, 2017 10:51 AM
 
Nov 30, 2017 10:21 AM
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Jormungand = Koko , Black lagoon = Revy and also the main character of Sakurako-san no Ashimoto ni wa Shitai ga Umatteiru is another one i found very interesting.

I would say they are much their own although i agree that leading female characters are a lack of. Many of them are annoying = Sakura type , while some are there just to tail after the main guy. Its hard to imagine many other there you remember the girl as being the one you really remembered well unless you heard about the guy first.

I would say another problem is that in many anime ivolving main girls or girls that are to remembered if you will. Is that sometimes they are too plain or dont have the looks as they grant the other girls in the anime. Rarely do i see a main female character and think she is beautiful or if she got the beauty she doesnt have the grace that other characters are gifted with. Yeah i get it see under what covers her bs but still wouldnt people want a main anime woman that gets the good look treatment or acts more highly. Skip beat is an example there the main character gets beautiful /gracefull as she grows into her role but after that she is back to being same old same old which is kinda eh.

Maybe its part of the discussion of me liking a main general thats more than a wimpy monkey with lack of braincells = sawamura or Naruto being the big examples.
And on the female side i wish for a gracefull/beautiful woman who acts as she looks in many ways.
 
Nov 30, 2017 10:22 AM

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Pikangie said:

I can feel your frustration.

There are however some more "hidden" anime which do have respectable and dignified female protagonists.

Her frustration is nonsensical and there is nothing "hidden" or unusual about such anime.

It also had one recent episode with a fairy queen with huuuuge exaggerated hentai tits, so... I'm kind of wavering.

They are realistically sized. In real life there are even bigger ones.

non-moe personality

Moe is not a personality type.

Well, yeah, sadly there's not that many anime with such great female characters...

For real, how do you people come to these conclusions? This is like if people went to Tokyo and complained that it's sparsely populated. Makes no sense.

otaku-bait stuff

By the same token the anime you listed must be baiting female viewers with their respectable and dignified female protagonists. And of course BL anime is baiting fujoshi. The logical end point here is that everything is bait and nobody sincerely likes anything.

It's kind of sad that even the girls who are very feminine-looking in the shows I talked about above, are considered by Japan's standards to have "tomboy" or "manly" personalities, as if it's abnormal for women to have their own life and desires and opinions.

What a blatant strawman.
 
Nov 30, 2017 10:56 AM

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PirateMadryk said:
I think Moribito wasnt mentioned until now.A visual stunning anime with a spear fighting female lead.


Lol was just thinking on that, great show and not that known by the comunity
 
Nov 30, 2017 1:00 PM

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first, if you want to discuss something, dont forget about the respect towards other.
throw away those hatred of yours towards moe first and discuss it with people, kindly and gently together in this forum or people can't take your thread seriously.

just 3 or 5 words after i was reading it i can't take it seriously lol.

need some manner kid.
did your parents never teach you that ? even if this is an social media, you are still talking to people hahaha
if it's face to face i bet you aint gonna say that because you would be scared and became coward.
i hope this aint gonna triggered you or someone lmao.
 
Feb 26, 2018 6:50 PM
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I've been waiting for someone to say something like this. A show like Darling in the Frankxx is a good juxtaposition of the mature, interesting, personally motivated characters like Zero Two or Ichigo. And cliched, uninteresting, airhead characters like Nanami and Sayori. Anime is targeted at males, so a lot of the time, the characters in the show we are supposed to empathize with are males and a lot of the time, females are sidelined by these male characters.

Another factor to consider: There seems to be some notion in anime/japanese culture that intelligence is not cute or maybe that the lack of intelligence is cute. But taking Darling in the Frankxx as an example again, Ichigo is adorable and it's a pleasure to watch her try and achieve her goals. Nothing is cuter than that.

To not make this too long, I just hope to see more female characters worthy of respect and capable of protecting their own smiles. The white knight animes have been burnt to the ground and it's time to mix things up before I get bored of these airheads fml.
 
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