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Poll: Seikaisuru Kado Episode 5 Discussion


#1
May 5, 2017 6:56 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Yaha-kui zaShunina is still such a complex character that I don't think Saraka is able to read him.

Pretty much another build up episode as the mystery thickens.

Yaha-kui zaShuina continues to demonstrate his cube powers to high level officials. Scientist girl makes another fascinating discovery.
 
 
#2
May 5, 2017 7:24 AM

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err... i am disappointed with the ending of this episode.
The recipe of Wam is too silly and unrealistic.
---
Now I am interested in the reaction of Tsukai for the release of the recipe.
At least, she was sensible for the matter.
 
#3
May 5, 2017 8:01 AM

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Interesting episode. Don't know how I feel about getting Wams from just shaping paper like that.
 
#4
May 5, 2017 8:05 AM

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The Prime Minister really shocked me with his wisdom and boldness.....I loved his conversation with Yaha as well as the press conference

But wow, that's pretty cool how the scientist girl was able to crack the secret behind making the Wam and I can't wait to see what happens worldwide now that everyone knows how simple it is to make
 
#5
May 5, 2017 8:11 AM
kage bunshin

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I don't get it so you make Wam from paper, or whaaaaat? But the other Wam was blue and red and this is white... I have no idea what's going on here.

"Maybe humans are the closest thing to demons alive."


 
#6
May 5, 2017 8:16 AM

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I like Shinawa's approach to science. If you don't know what it is, just try to eat it!
Wow I didn't expect them to be able to create Wam so easily. Then why did Zashu say that he needed time to make it and that only 197 were made so far?
Still can't wait for next week, to see what mess will happen throughout the world.
 
 
#7
May 5, 2017 8:25 AM

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RisuSaya said:
I don't get it so you make Wam from paper, or whaaaaat? But the other Wam was blue and red and this is white... I have no idea what's going on here.


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.
 
#8
May 5, 2017 8:29 AM

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No wonder I always do origami, yet I never created Wam :( hahaha
I enjoyed the episode. This will be crisis now all over the UN
 
#9
May 5, 2017 8:36 AM

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I thought the episode is called Nanoha but it was Nanoka instead :X
I like how Zashunina saw crazy scientiest girl eat his hand and said she is appropriate lol.
Oh and i totally think that the best part of this anime is seeing many people theorycraft what will humanity do with warps and seeing many different opinions seeing them honestly says a lot about people and their understanding of humanity.
Modified by Hiii-chan, May 5, 2017 8:40 AM
 
May 5, 2017 8:41 AM
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Seems like we're finally going to get into the meat of the story with the next episode. Wonder what that "next one" in the preview means..
 
May 5, 2017 8:50 AM

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Pointed out a few episodes ago technology advancement is not the main intention from Yaha, but humanity advancement as a whole. For humanity to understand themself more or in other words progress, technology is one of them, but what will be the next "question"? or what aspect he wants to advance?

In this episode having Wams disperse to everyone is indeed one of the way to avoid maximum confrontation/casualty(war etc), the same as how everyone using electricity. The minimum casualties(death, job loss etc) created by sudden change in technology can only be settled by human themself or to be specific the goverment/state.
Modified by valvravetruth, May 5, 2017 8:55 AM
 
May 5, 2017 9:02 AM

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Great episode even if I disagree with the whole DIY approach. I get the reasoning behind this gesture of mass distribution but the consequences are way too risky. I don't care how positive someone wants to be, humanity is not ready for that sort of thing and this would end in countless lives being destroyed.
 
May 5, 2017 9:08 AM

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Wam is about the shape :O
Japan publicizes the method and now free energy for everyone, no more corporations keeping back progress.
 
May 5, 2017 9:17 AM
kage bunshin

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Vinyet said:
RisuSaya said:
I don't get it so you make Wam from paper, or whaaaaat? But the other Wam was blue and red and this is white... I have no idea what's going on here.


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.


Oooh okay I see now. Thank you I somehow missed the information! :D

"Maybe humans are the closest thing to demons alive."


 
 
May 5, 2017 9:18 AM

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Holy fuck, you can make Wam yourselves as a human! I did not expect that whatsoever, scientist girl is a huge genius. This will cause a war after all, me thinks. Every single person can do the Wam and who knows what they will do with it. This just turned even more intense and interesting than it already was.

Tsukai told Yaha-kui in his face that she wouldn't have taken the Wam.

I'm still not sure what Yaha-kui's end game, he's a huge enigma but it makes the show so much better, i can't fucking tell where this is going.
 
May 5, 2017 9:28 AM

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Another great episode.

It was amazing how the scientist girl was able to discover how to make Wam, give her 10 Nobel Prizes! Also seeing the faces of those guys at the UN had me laughing. Guess you can't monopolise it losers :P

 
 
May 5, 2017 9:35 AM

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I think She wasn't the only person to find it. Shindo probably help her.
This serie is really good
 
May 5, 2017 9:36 AM
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The paper Wam's are probably weaker versions of original Wam's, generating only enough energy for each person.
 
May 5, 2017 9:39 AM

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Vinyet said:
RisuSaya said:
I don't get it so you make Wam from paper, or whaaaaat? But the other Wam was blue and red and this is white... I have no idea what's going on here.


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.


But still, the problem is a normal human shouldn't be able to fold paper into those higher dimensions.
 
May 5, 2017 10:02 AM
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Unlimited energy to everyone? That is absolutely terrifying!
 
May 5, 2017 10:02 AM

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m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:
Vinyet said:


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.


But still, the problem is a normal human shouldn't be able to fold paper into those higher dimensions.


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.
 
 
May 5, 2017 10:10 AM
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MegaBlasta said:
m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:


But still, the problem is a normal human shouldn't be able to fold paper into those higher dimensions.


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.


It depends on how you view the nature of reality.
 
May 5, 2017 12:21 PM

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One one had, yes, you can use the Wam for terrorism. On the other, if you literally have infinite power, why do you even need to resort to terrorism? In it's simplest form terrorism wants to take things from other. The poorest countries are more prone to that because they are poor. But what if they weren't poor?
 
May 5, 2017 1:06 PM

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That was very nice, for a moment there I thought they were just giving the Wam away, I'm glad that they shared the plans at the end!!
"At some point, I stopped hoping."
 
May 5, 2017 1:26 PM

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MegaBlasta said:
m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:


But still, the problem is a normal human shouldn't be able to fold paper into those higher dimensions.


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.

My guess is that anyone being able to fold Wams into existence has something to do with the arrival of zaShunina and Kado, or them introducing an element to humanity we still don't know of... though I'm no scientist and this is just a wild guess. I hope they come up with a plausible pseudo explanation next episode for how it's possible for an origami to turn into a Wam lol :D
 
May 5, 2017 1:55 PM

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Interesting episode, even though I can't really accept origami as being a possible Wam production method. I'd agree if they used some sort of hi-tech anti-matter process, but it wouldn't solve the problem of sharing Wam to all humanity, so I'll have to ignore this conflicted feelings for plot's sake.

Also, now they really have to start planning what to do about global warming.
Anime ga daaaai suki!!! Computer Engineering. Japan is awesome!!!
 
May 5, 2017 2:08 PM
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Loved the spin at the end although it's massively far fetched.

The creator of this show has nothing but contempt for the worlds superpowers it seems.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
May 5, 2017 2:08 PM

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SalemWitch said:
MegaBlasta said:


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.

My guess is that anyone being able to fold Wams into existence has something to do with the arrival of zaShunina and Kado, or them introducing an element to humanity we still don't know of... though I'm no scientist and this is just a wild guess. I hope they come up with a plausible pseudo explanation next episode for how it's possible for an origami to turn into a Wam lol :D

She did say that there was a trick to it and once you understand that you can create Wam.
However she didn't say what that trick was, so next week should probably explain it better.
 
May 5, 2017 2:52 PM
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What's the best anime this season (among the new ones) and why is it Seikaisuru Kado?
 
 
May 5, 2017 2:59 PM
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Anathor said:
SalemWitch said:

My guess is that anyone being able to fold Wams into existence has something to do with the arrival of zaShunina and Kado, or them introducing an element to humanity we still don't know of... though I'm no scientist and this is just a wild guess. I hope they come up with a plausible pseudo explanation next episode for how it's possible for an origami to turn into a Wam lol :D

She did say that there was a trick to it and once you understand that you can create Wam.
However she didn't say what that trick was, so next week should probably explain it better.


Wams are only the portals towards energy, they aren't generating anything. They are doors to allow infinite energy from the 4th+ dimensions to flow into our 3D world.

This is how I think it works: Think of a cubic room as our 3D world, all six sides solid walls, and the outside of the cube the other dimensions. If we create a hole on one of the walls, then the air (the energy) from outside can flow in. The Scientist girl (Shinawa Kanata) was able to create/mimic a specific shape that "pokes" a hole within our 3D world, and thus allow that energy to flow in. Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it. Energy, unlike matter, has no specific shape, so thus do not require any special calculations or medium. Thus the material of the wam doesn't matter, because it is routing shapeless things into our world. This obvious requires help from the 4th+ dimension, so thus never worked until zaShunina arrived. If this is the case, then why does it take Kado so long to make 200 of them? Maybe there is an efficiency disparity between those colored ones vs. DIY ones.

Also thinking about the plane:
Now that I think about it, I think I understand why it takes like <1 minute for the airplane to enter Kado, and more time to release everyone out. Bringing a lower dimension to the higher dimension is easy: Lift a piece of paper up from the corners, tada, your drawing (on the paper) is now in a 3D-space. You augmented the existing spatial data with extra information. However, when putting it back, we need to angle it parallel to the surface and project it down, if we want it to be back to original position. Obviously at 4th+ dimension, there are more potential projections and thus require calculations. By projecting from 4+ to 3 dimensions, we need to limit the information loss from projecting to the extraneous "extra dimensions", or else we will end up with parts lost. (like how zaShunina's arms are floating around him. His anatomy might allow disconnects, but humans might not) Thus the time required to calculate.

This episode/series is pretty interesting. Obviously fictional, but with enough scientific/logical basis that it might work.
 
 
May 5, 2017 3:00 PM

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Well, unlimited power is only unlimited where is no limit to it. Hence you can't seize 196 balls, because if there were only 196 balls it would be limited energy. It may seem obvious, that's pretty much message of the episode.

I still have to laugh how Japan are pretty much only moral country in the entire world filled with psychotic assholes. :D

It's just Gate, with less weapons (even though they couldn't help themselves and must include cool impossible tank manoeuvre)
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May 5, 2017 3:10 PM

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Everyone's faces at the conference was priceless. Now anyone can make WAM as much as they can. Infinite energy for everyone. Like the prime minister predicted, showing this information to the world can lead to bloodshed. Things are getting more interesting.
 
May 5, 2017 3:42 PM

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This anime has bested my expectation! So far its my top 3 anime for many reasons.Everything's going so far very intellectually!
 
May 5, 2017 4:28 PM

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Wow, they really did it. The world order will change, democracies will fall, money crumbles, the sole meaning to create anything you want anytime. Just wow.

This means the end of poverty, the end of elite class, the end of work. But it also means almost limitless power to army, terrorists and insane individuals.

This won't end well for sure. The bloodshed is coming. But yeah, this was the best choice they could have done. Goodbye UN, US, and Russia, goodbye other superpowers, your rein on the world is over now.

Really thought-provoking episode, especially when tied to modern world conflicts. One can only fear how this ends.
 
May 5, 2017 4:36 PM

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RainbowIslands said:
Anathor said:

She did say that there was a trick to it and once you understand that you can create Wam.
However she didn't say what that trick was, so next week should probably explain it better.


Wams are only the portals towards energy, they aren't generating anything. They are doors to allow infinite energy from the 4th+ dimensions to flow into our 3D world.

This is how I think it works: Think of a cubic room as our 3D world, all six sides solid walls, and the outside of the cube the other dimensions. If we create a hole on one of the walls, then the air (the energy) from outside can flow in. The Scientist girl (Shinawa Kanata) was able to create/mimic a specific shape that "pokes" a hole within our 3D world, and thus allow that energy to flow in. Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it. Energy, unlike matter, has no specific shape, so thus do not require any special calculations or medium. Thus the material of the wam doesn't matter, because it is routing shapeless things into our world. This obvious requires help from the 4th+ dimension, so thus never worked until zaShunina arrived. If this is the case, then why does it take Kado so long to make 200 of them? Maybe there is an efficiency disparity between those colored ones vs. DIY ones.

Also thinking about the plane:
Now that I think about it, I think I understand why it takes like <1 minute for the airplane to enter Kado, and more time to release everyone out. Bringing a lower dimension to the higher dimension is easy: Lift a piece of paper up from the corners, tada, your drawing (on the paper) is now in a 3D-space. You augmented the existing spatial data with extra information. However, when putting it back, we need to angle it parallel to the surface and project it down, if we want it to be back to original position. Obviously at 4th+ dimension, there are more potential projections and thus require calculations. By projecting from 4+ to 3 dimensions, we need to limit the information loss from projecting to the extraneous "extra dimensions", or else we will end up with parts lost. (like how zaShunina's arms are floating around him. His anatomy might allow disconnects, but humans might not) Thus the time required to calculate.

This episode/series is pretty interesting. Obviously fictional, but with enough scientific/logical basis that it might work.


One: I would like to point out that being able to create WAM yourself has not been specified as a result to zaShunina's arrival, or KADO's involvement of rerouting the energy of WAM into our world. Kado has been explained as being able to turn things from our 3rd dimension into his dimension and vice versa, but nothing has been said at all that his arrival to that universe had any worldwide affects, so I do not see why you would say that would be the case.

Two: We could talk about actual dimensions and how her being able to punch through the time dimension with a piece of paper is utter BS, but that's not the problem.
The problem is not the faulty reality of the situation, but the faulty of the reality within the world of this story. It would be more plausible if his solution was to ACTUALLY create some form of higher dimensional bomb that creates a chain reaction which that would FORCE a ton of wam into their world, because the solution would still be shrouded in the mystery of the higher plane which we are unable to fully understand. But now the solution was grounded into our world, where simply folding things into certain shapes to represent "funnels" which pour the energy from Za's world into ours when we were - and still are - never able to access and/or perceive ourselves. They started this story as something so close to realism with their accuracy of the concept of dimensions and processing of information, but then is stripped of that realism with this concept.

Three: As someone who knows Japanese, I can confirm that the trick she is referring to is the actual remembering the shape/making of the wam. To reword what she meant: "Well, there's a bit of a trick to doing it, but once you remember it, you'll be able to make it easy!"


-Edit-
Four: Correct me if i'm wrong at all, but what happened to the fregonics??? Does it not even matter anymore when creating wam?? All of these conflicting ideas X_X
Modified by MegaBlasta, May 5, 2017 4:58 PM
 
 
May 5, 2017 4:37 PM

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DmonHiro said:
One one had, yes, you can use the Wam for terrorism. On the other, if you literally have infinite power, why do you even need to resort to terrorism? In it's simplest form terrorism wants to take things from other. The poorest countries are more prone to that because they are poor. But what if they weren't poor?


actually it's wrong logic
because the existence of poverty is what makes humanity evolve

for example imagine that everyone in the world have millions dollars, who would do haircut for you ?
and that what called "Devaluation"
when some country print more money then official lowering of the value of a country's currency
for example if everyone have millions then 1 million dollars will equal 5 dollars now

Now let's take another field, imagine you have medication treats all diseases why we will need doctors or evolve in medical field? simply no more evolve

and the energy not different if everyone have endless energy then the value of energy will decrease

last thing read the history I can't recall any war start because of Need for energy it's always about "ideology "

Hitler believed Germans must rule the world
The Mongols believed they must rule the world
...... etc , all biggest wars in history it's just about "ideology " someone who believe in something

give energy for everyone it's just like give everyone the opportunity to start ِwar
 
May 5, 2017 5:08 PM

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This is getting more interesting by the episodes man. Loving it!

Btw don't tell me the cute girl was wearing a wedding ring?
 
May 5, 2017 5:29 PM
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MegaBlasta said:
RainbowIslands said:


Wams are only the portals towards energy, they aren't generating anything. They are doors to allow infinite energy from the 4th+ dimensions to flow into our 3D world.

This is how I think it works: Think of a cubic room as our 3D world, all six sides solid walls, and the outside of the cube the other dimensions. If we create a hole on one of the walls, then the air (the energy) from outside can flow in. The Scientist girl (Shinawa Kanata) was able to create/mimic a specific shape that "pokes" a hole within our 3D world, and thus allow that energy to flow in. Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it. Energy, unlike matter, has no specific shape, so thus do not require any special calculations or medium. Thus the material of the wam doesn't matter, because it is routing shapeless things into our world. This obvious requires help from the 4th+ dimension, so thus never worked until zaShunina arrived. If this is the case, then why does it take Kado so long to make 200 of them? Maybe there is an efficiency disparity between those colored ones vs. DIY ones.

Also thinking about the plane:
Now that I think about it, I think I understand why it takes like <1 minute for the airplane to enter Kado, and more time to release everyone out. Bringing a lower dimension to the higher dimension is easy: Lift a piece of paper up from the corners, tada, your drawing (on the paper) is now in a 3D-space. You augmented the existing spatial data with extra information. However, when putting it back, we need to angle it parallel to the surface and project it down, if we want it to be back to original position. Obviously at 4th+ dimension, there are more potential projections and thus require calculations. By projecting from 4+ to 3 dimensions, we need to limit the information loss from projecting to the extraneous "extra dimensions", or else we will end up with parts lost. (like how zaShunina's arms are floating around him. His anatomy might allow disconnects, but humans might not) Thus the time required to calculate.

This episode/series is pretty interesting. Obviously fictional, but with enough scientific/logical basis that it might work.


One: I would like to point out that being able to create WAM yourself has not been specified as a result to zaShunina's arrival, or KADO's involvement of rerouting the energy of WAM into our world. Kado has been explained as being able to turn things from our 3rd dimension into his dimension and vice versa, but nothing has been said at all that his arrival to that universe had any worldwide affects, so I do not see why you would say that would be the case.

Two: We could talk about actual dimensions and how her being able to punch through the time dimension with a piece of paper is utter BS, but that's not the problem.
The problem is not the faulty reality of the situation, but the faulty of the reality within the world of this story. It would be more plausible if his solution was to ACTUALLY create some form of higher dimensional bomb that creates a chain reaction which that would FORCE a ton of wam into their world, because the solution would still be shrouded in the mystery of the higher plane which we are unable to fully understand. But now the solution was grounded into our world, where simply folding things into certain shapes to represent "funnels" which pour the energy from Za's world into ours when we were - and still are - never able to access and/or perceive ourselves. They started this story as something so close to realism with their accuracy of the concept of dimensions and processing of information, but then is stripped of that realism with this concept.

Three: As someone who knows Japanese, I can confirm that the trick she is referring to is the actual remembering the shape/making of the wam. To reword what she meant: "Well, there's a bit of a trick to doing it, but once you remember it, you'll be able to make it easy!"


>> https://youtu.be/C6kn6nXMWF0?t=3m07s
Explains how 4D objects might look like if they pass through 3D space. This is inline with Za's shrinking detachable hand, which does not literally disappear in a split second.

1. The alternate idea of creating DIY wam was suggested by Za himself last episode, so it's definitely his idea. It's (probably) just that he didn't have a good grasp of 3D spatial geometry so he required a specialist (the girl scientist) to test it.
- Kado (which is basically a high-tech computer) + zaShunina's arrival didn't change anything about our world. That's because the 4th and onwards spatial dimensions (ones that zaShunina came from) is always there. As orthogonal objects, it's possible for them to "be there" and not interact with us. It's just that as 3D objects we have no way of perceiving it.

2. I'm speaking about spatial dimensions, not temporal dimensions. It is possible that the fractal shape creates a natural difference in potential energy, causing the shape to roll across a orthogonal 4D plane, and thus generating(transferring) energy into our world. As it is doing it across orthogonal plane, it would look like it's rotating across its own center, just like what is shown on screen.

- If you are not convinced, just replace this "wam infinite energy" with dark energy. We have no idea what it is, we can't detect it, but it is said to accelerate the expansion of our universe because we have evidence that our universe is expanding (and by elimination it must be it). Wam just allows us to access that energy. Since we have no idea what this kind of energy is, why must we be so certain that paper cannot be affected by it?

3. I can understand Japanese too. That's why I'm suggesting a metaphor towards how they're tapping into an different spatial dimension.

4. fregonics: Wasn't there a scene where they were attacking and testing it this episode? It's not being written off yet.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the shape of the DIY Wam also has a relationship with the arrangement of the original Wams. Maybe by lining up certain way allows her to see different cross-sections of its shape?

I'm sure they'll explain it somehow. I'm just saying it's plausible based on what I know about math and science. They did their research, and it shows.
Modified by RainbowIslands, May 5, 2017 5:53 PM
 
May 5, 2017 5:33 PM

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oh no, zaShunina also adopted Japan's engrish from Shindou's smartphone. just kidding.
The camera view and sunset backlight conveyed Tsukai's feelings and inner turmoil so nicely.
All the surprised faces at the ending was priceless.
All the comments here are eye opening. So if Wam is just the door to unlimited energy, the door could be created in form. Well, I think of the paper wam as a temporary object merely made for presentation purpose (if the anisotropic energy doesn't affect its durability). As for zaShunina's bead Wams, if the material it's being made of doesn't matter, maybe it's just in his world, the bead material is either the easiest one he could produce or the most durable and effective. The color of the wams is also merely for presentation?
The next episode preview is so intense. It seems they're still going to explain the form of wam further too...
 
May 5, 2017 5:58 PM

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Weird episode...so the Wam can be made out of paper because the shape is what generates the endless power source...interesting. This episode was a big slowdown in the progression of the story but a necessary one considering the complexity of the information they are trying to get across to us. I think it's interesting how the USA rep at the UN Security Council comes off as a "bad guy" in the decision of the Wam...maybe that's insinuated discontent with American politics. I look forward to how the plot progresses moving forward and what the next step will be.
I shall rule over the realms of anime and manga! Mwahhahahahaha!!!
 
May 5, 2017 6:46 PM
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dark-chaos said:
DmonHiro said:
One one had, yes, you can use the Wam for terrorism. On the other, if you literally have infinite power, why do you even need to resort to terrorism? In it's simplest form terrorism wants to take things from other. The poorest countries are more prone to that because they are poor. But what if they weren't poor?


actually it's wrong logic
because the existence of poverty is what makes humanity evolve

for example imagine that everyone in the world have millions dollars, who would do haircut for you ?
and that what called "Devaluation"
when some country print more money then official lowering of the value of a country's currency
for example if everyone have millions then 1 million dollars will equal 5 dollars now

Now let's take another field, imagine you have medication treats all diseases why we will need doctors or evolve in medical field? simply no more evolve

and the energy not different if everyone have endless energy then the value of energy will decrease

last thing read the history I can't recall any war start because of Need for energy it's always about "ideology "

Hitler believed Germans must rule the world
The Mongols believed they must rule the world
...... etc , all biggest wars in history it's just about "ideology " someone who believe in something

give energy for everyone it's just like give everyone the opportunity to start ِwar


I totally agree, Dark-Chaos and to be quite honest i think that is the end of humanity. Someone will eventually invent a way to use wam to destroy the world. People are not the same. If everyone thinks the same then it is no longer humanity. Either they will destroy the world or the world will be ruled by one person which will be Yaha-kui zaShunina.

What defines being human is mortality. We already have seen that Yaha-kui zaShunina can make infinite bread and water.

Humanity is not ready for this. I can't even fathom what would actually happen
 
May 5, 2017 6:46 PM
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I'm really thankful for some of the comments here because they explain some things pretty well, because even though I get it, I'm getting like the top layer of it.

For the most part I anticipated that to solve this whole thing they would need to distribute the wams nationally but I did not expect them to actually explain a diy version. Just thought that they were gonna pick 196 geniuses to see what they could build with infinite energy. I was also really surprised at how the Prime Minister responded because that's exactly what I was thinking when that other diplomat representative said that he shouldn't have given humanity the wam.

We of course all know that humanity is immature and does stupid things but those things will happen regardless. I could argue for wars not starting because you know, this is now mostly going to be a competition for those who are smart enough to actually utilize and understand the wams. You can really only plug them in to existing power using products now and you'd still have to invent anything you would want. I might just be maybe really positive or not care because like if you aren't smart enough to develop shields/self healing devices or whatever from someone else's devastating weapons then too bad, you've lost. (This just makes me particularly salty because the US no longer invests itself enough into the sciences, an example being cyber warfare and that we no longer have the mathematical/technical capability to send our own astronauts into space)

But I'm looking forward to see if they will explore any kinds of theoretical inventions that are really in the works right now but are really limited only by the insane amount of energy they would actually have to use.
Modified by xisue, May 5, 2017 6:54 PM
 
May 5, 2017 8:22 PM

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RainbowIslands said:
MegaBlasta said:


One: I would like to point out that being able to create WAM yourself has not been specified as a result to zaShunina's arrival, or KADO's involvement of rerouting the energy of WAM into our world. Kado has been explained as being able to turn things from our 3rd dimension into his dimension and vice versa, but nothing has been said at all that his arrival to that universe had any worldwide affects, so I do not see why you would say that would be the case.

Two: We could talk about actual dimensions and how her being able to punch through the time dimension with a piece of paper is utter BS, but that's not the problem.
The problem is not the faulty reality of the situation, but the faulty of the reality within the world of this story. It would be more plausible if his solution was to ACTUALLY create some form of higher dimensional bomb that creates a chain reaction which that would FORCE a ton of wam into their world, because the solution would still be shrouded in the mystery of the higher plane which we are unable to fully understand. But now the solution was grounded into our world, where simply folding things into certain shapes to represent "funnels" which pour the energy from Za's world into ours when we were - and still are - never able to access and/or perceive ourselves. They started this story as something so close to realism with their accuracy of the concept of dimensions and processing of information, but then is stripped of that realism with this concept.

Three: As someone who knows Japanese, I can confirm that the trick she is referring to is the actual remembering the shape/making of the wam. To reword what she meant: "Well, there's a bit of a trick to doing it, but once you remember it, you'll be able to make it easy!"


>> https://youtu.be/C6kn6nXMWF0?t=3m07s
Explains how 4D objects might look like if they pass through 3D space. This is inline with Za's shrinking detachable hand, which does not literally disappear in a split second.

1. The alternate idea of creating DIY wam was suggested by Za himself last episode, so it's definitely his idea. It's (probably) just that he didn't have a good grasp of 3D spatial geometry so he required a specialist (the girl scientist) to test it.
- Kado (which is basically a high-tech computer) + zaShunina's arrival didn't change anything about our world. That's because the 4th and onwards spatial dimensions (ones that zaShunina came from) is always there. As orthogonal objects, it's possible for them to "be there" and not interact with us. It's just that as 3D objects we have no way of perceiving it.

2. I'm speaking about spatial dimensions, not temporal dimensions. It is possible that the fractal shape creates a natural difference in potential energy, causing the shape to roll across a orthogonal 4D plane, and thus generating(transferring) energy into our world. As it is doing it across orthogonal plane, it would look like it's rotating across its own center, just like what is shown on screen.

- If you are not convinced, just replace this "wam infinite energy" with dark energy. We have no idea what it is, we can't detect it, but it is said to accelerate the expansion of our universe because we have evidence that our universe is expanding (and by elimination it must be it). Wam just allows us to access that energy. Since we have no idea what this kind of energy is, why must we be so certain that paper cannot be affected by it?

3. I can understand Japanese too. That's why I'm suggesting a metaphor towards how they're tapping into an different spatial dimension.

4. fregonics: Wasn't there a scene where they were attacking and testing it this episode? It's not being written off yet.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the shape of the DIY Wam also has a relationship with the arrangement of the original Wams. Maybe by lining up certain way allows her to see different cross-sections of its shape?

I'm sure they'll explain it somehow. I'm just saying it's plausible based on what I know about math and science. They did their research, and it shows.


??? Sorry I don't understand what the video was for. What point were you trying to make with that? I'm not trying to be smart, I just don't understand how that correlated to the point you were trying to make. Regardless, yes, I understand those concepts.

1- I never said it wasn't his idea, I said his arrival. What does it having to be his idea have anything to do with what I said?I said kado didn't changed anything about the world, and I understand why. You're misconstruing what I'm saying.
You said yourself " Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it." Which would require kado to be calculating ALL the wam that people "create" and route that energy through, thus affecting the entire world. Why are you going back on your word?

2- To get to higher dimensions we would have to punch through our temporal dimension, thus creating the 4th and higher spatial dimensions. The change of the "duration" of any one dimension is the direction in which the new dimension encompasses. We would have to punch through our own temporal dimensions to reach the 4th spacial dimension.

I suggest you watch this to get a better understanding on higher dimensions in relation to lower ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA&t=968s
but I digress.

My problem isn't that paper cannot be affected by WAM energy, it is that simply folding a 3d shape in a 3d dimension could make it so you can access a higher plane. A 2 dimensional being can only fold and two dimensions, and will never be able to access the third dimension no matter how hard they tried. why does that work here? As Za said, he lives in a world that is adjacent to our world. So unless we are able to "bend" or "fold" in that spacial dimension at all, there is no way we can create a slope to access that plane. It always being there doesn't mean we're able to suddenly affect things in that dimension. it's a top down hierarchy.


3. Well for one, that had nothing to do with my bullet. I mean, that's cool that you understand it, but I was talking clearing up what she meant at the end when she said there's a trick to it.

What metaphor? I think everyone understood from episode 3 that they're tapping into the energy into Za's dimension. They've said it multiple times in the show so there's no "suggesting".


4. I'm talking about the fregonics when she created a shape that somehow accesses a higher dimensional plane. Za said he can access it himself, but the friction/distortion of the dimensions between makes the fregonics. I guess we will understand next episode, but why does it not appear when she so suddenly creates a shape that can interact with the 4th dimension.


You're explaining a lot of obvious aspects about the show, but not addressing my problem. Yes I understand how real dimensions work, but this story takes a realistic understanding of dimensions, and then says that I can fold my toilet paper to access infinite energy to power this infinitely powerful shit I'm going to take on this anime.
I kid of course.

I mean, shit dude, I didn't know this show had you using math and shit man I've been watching this show all wrong; maybe I should go back to grade school so I can be as smart as you.
(this time im being smart :p)
Modified by MegaBlasta, May 5, 2017 9:16 PM
 
May 5, 2017 9:54 PM
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Yeah, it's not clear how you can produce an object that can affect higher dimensions without applying any sort of change in the higher dimensions. Essentially, an object limited in 2D plane, no matter how you make the object will remain in the 2D plane if the maker cannot access the 3D space outside of the plane.

The only explanation is that the world inside the anime is actually not fully 3D and might extend slightly into the extra dimensions but the humans cannot perceive it. As such the smashing of the paper balls folder with an unique pattern/shape somehow propels the object into the extra dimensions. Again, pretty dubious explanation.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
 
May 5, 2017 10:00 PM
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MegaBlasta said:
RainbowIslands said:


>> https://youtu.be/C6kn6nXMWF0?t=3m07s
Explains how 4D objects might look like if they pass through 3D space. This is inline with Za's shrinking detachable hand, which does not literally disappear in a split second.

1. The alternate idea of creating DIY wam was suggested by Za himself last episode, so it's definitely his idea. It's (probably) just that he didn't have a good grasp of 3D spatial geometry so he required a specialist (the girl scientist) to test it.
- Kado (which is basically a high-tech computer) + zaShunina's arrival didn't change anything about our world. That's because the 4th and onwards spatial dimensions (ones that zaShunina came from) is always there. As orthogonal objects, it's possible for them to "be there" and not interact with us. It's just that as 3D objects we have no way of perceiving it.

2. I'm speaking about spatial dimensions, not temporal dimensions. It is possible that the fractal shape creates a natural difference in potential energy, causing the shape to roll across a orthogonal 4D plane, and thus generating(transferring) energy into our world. As it is doing it across orthogonal plane, it would look like it's rotating across its own center, just like what is shown on screen.

- If you are not convinced, just replace this "wam infinite energy" with dark energy. We have no idea what it is, we can't detect it, but it is said to accelerate the expansion of our universe because we have evidence that our universe is expanding (and by elimination it must be it). Wam just allows us to access that energy. Since we have no idea what this kind of energy is, why must we be so certain that paper cannot be affected by it?

3. I can understand Japanese too. That's why I'm suggesting a metaphor towards how they're tapping into an different spatial dimension.

4. fregonics: Wasn't there a scene where they were attacking and testing it this episode? It's not being written off yet.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the shape of the DIY Wam also has a relationship with the arrangement of the original Wams. Maybe by lining up certain way allows her to see different cross-sections of its shape?

I'm sure they'll explain it somehow. I'm just saying it's plausible based on what I know about math and science. They did their research, and it shows.


??? Sorry I don't understand what the video was for. What point were you trying to make with that? I'm not trying to be smart, I just don't understand how that correlated to the point you were trying to make. Regardless, yes, I understand those concepts.

1- I never said it wasn't his idea, I said his arrival. What does it having to be his idea have anything to do with what I said?I said kado didn't changed anything about the world, and I understand why. You're misconstruing what I'm saying.
You said yourself " Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it." Which would require kado to be calculating ALL the wam that people "create" and route that energy through, thus affecting the entire world. Why are you going back on your word?

2- To get to higher dimensions we would have to punch through our temporal dimension, thus creating the 4th and higher spatial dimensions. The change and/or fold the "duration" of any one dimension to a different point or in this case, the possibility in our temporal space (time traveling/warm holing) is the higher dimension. So for us to get to any higher dimensions, we would have to punch through our own temporal dimensions to reach the 4th spacial dimension.

I suggest you watch this to get a better understanding on higher dimensions in relation to lower ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA&t=968s
but I digress.

My problem isn't that paper cannot be affected by WAM energy, it is that simply folding a 3d shape in a 3d dimension could make it so you can access a higher plane. A 2 dimensional being can only fold and two dimensions, and will never be able to access the third dimension no matter how hard they tried. why does that work here? As Za said, he lives in a world that is adjacent to our world. So unless we are able to "bend" or "fold" in that spacial dimension at all, there is no way we can create a slope to access that plane. It always being there doesn't mean we're able to suddenly affect things in that dimension. it's a top down hierarchy.


3. Well for one, that had nothing to do with my bullet. I mean, that's cool that you understand it, but I was talking clearing up what she meant at the end when she said there's a trick to it.

What metaphor? I think everyone understood from episode 3 that they're tapping into the energy into Za's dimension. They've said it multiple times in the show so there's no "suggesting".


4. I'm talking about the fregonics when she created a shape that somehow accesses a higher dimensional plane. Za said he can access it himself, but the friction/distortion of the dimensions between makes the fregonics. I guess we will understand next episode, but why does it not appear when she so suddenly creates a shape that can interact with the 4th dimension.


You're explaining a lot of obvious aspects about the show, but not addressing my problem. Yes I understand how real dimensions work, but this story takes a realistic understanding of dimensions, and then says that I can fold my toilet paper to access infinite energy to power this infinitely powerful shit I'm going to take on this anime.
I kid of course.

I mean, shit dude, I didn't know this show had you using math and shit man I've been watching this show all wrong; maybe I should go back to grade school so I can be as smart as you.
(this time im being smart :p)

… You don’t have to do a personal attack. I know I’m not eloquent.

Anyways. I think we’re misunderstanding each other.
The difference between our assumptions is this:
- You believe that there is some sort of barrier that separates us between higher dimensions and what we are in, and that unless an object is in a higher dimension, it will not be able to interact.
- But I believe that even though we cannot perceive the higher dimension, we are still situated within that higher dimension, despite with negligible (~0) length in certain directions.

“It always being there doesn't mean we're able to suddenly affect things in that dimension.” We’re not, they’re affecting us. The 3D-folded object itself never had a higher dimensional “length”. It acts as an interface so that energy can enter through it in-and-out into our world. Energy, non-matter and dimension-less, is an inherent quality all dimensions can perceive as long as it contains the normal components that lower dimension contains. My intention for posting that video is that it is easy for a higher-dimensional being to take a lower-dimensional object and manipulate it in a higher dimension. The lower-dimensional object will only still perceive a cross-section of the world, but the energy acted can still be perceived regardless if done within those the object can perceive.

Since it’s difficult to imagine a 4D-> 3D thing, I’ll do it in a 3D->2D example.
Say we stick a piece of paper on a merry-go-round (on one of the bars) perpendicular to the ground. The plane that the paper started off will be the 2D plane we’re considering (the one that the paper is perceiving). Let’s spin the merry-go-round. Obviously, the paper gained energy, it’s moving. Can the paper perceive it? Let’s project the whole motion onto the 2D plane I noted. It would be like a point bouncing between two ends of a line. Yes. It’s moving. It gained energy. That energy is what is poured in from the higher dimension. Obviously we don’t know what kind of motion is done in the higher dimension, but I can imagine something like a perpetual pendulum (possibly related to its shape), and thus transferring “infinite energy” to a lower dimension.


That how I view it and wanted to share. If it makes sense to you, great, if not, then thanks for reading.
Modified by RainbowIslands, May 5, 2017 11:00 PM
 
 
May 5, 2017 11:24 PM
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So far this series have been like the longest possible build up, we haven't really seen how good Shindo is at his job, I was expecting a master polemist capable of convincing and outsmarting other people in his same line of job with his wits and episode 0 was just meh as an introduction to his capabilities.
I really hope this takes off soon.
 
May 6, 2017 12:20 AM

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Lol ok I guess how I said it didn't convey correctly through text, but I meant that last bit playfully. It wasn't an actual attack, I'm sorry if it came off that way.

Well actually, my argument isn't that I think that they cannot interact, but a lower dimension would not be able to do anything in their own dimension to affect a higher plane in such a manner. It's the other way around. 3D beings live in an infinite amount of 2D planes, and the same rule goes down to lower dimensions. I understand that concept of energy, but the mere idea that a shape can funnel energy from a higher dimension seems silly to me. A 3D world can only effect itself unless it breaks it's own laws collapses over itself (black hole/white hole) and folds it's spatial dimension into another. Unless something from a higher plane (that can easily interact with the lower dimension) specifically intervenes, I just find it to be a silly idea for the writers to go with.

I understood your example, but I don't see how the 2d flatlanders creating a complex 2D shape would allow energy from the ferris wheel to flow down into the 2D plane. To me, unless a force from the 3D world appears and folds the 2D plane, the 2D flatlanders would not be able to get energy in that case.

I'm not trying to prove these theories or anything; I'm not a scientist. But I just think they REALLY stretched the believably with this idea.

Again, sorry if I came off as being mean, that wasn't my intention. I suppose I'm a bit too aggressive when I'm trying to prove my point.
 
May 6, 2017 12:29 AM

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kuro123qwer said:
The paper Wam's are probably weaker versions of original Wam's, generating only enough energy for each person.


That's what I thought too. And I guess, the better the material, the more efficient they'll be able to charge? Otherwise the original 197 Wam that were created would be a waste of time making..

 
May 6, 2017 1:36 AM

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Well then. Power companies, and fossil fuel leaders... They got fucked with hard! Well, not having to pay your power bill, or transportation will sure be cool. But wait. The prices of many commodities will go down... Holy shit, the more you think of the implications of a freely available power source for humanity like this, the more you start to realize the huge domino effect this will cause.

juui said:
kuro123qwer said:
The paper Wam's are probably weaker versions of original Wam's, generating only enough energy for each person.


That's what I thought too. And I guess, the better the material, the more efficient they'll be able to charge? Otherwise the original 197 Wam that were created would be a waste of time making..


Maybe, maybe not. But the whole mechanism in which Wam operates is probably only possible because of the Anisotropic making their visit. A phenomenon of sorts.

Which leads me to believe, based from the next episode's preview, that the governments from the world will be led to believe that if they're able to get rid of Kado, the phenomenon of Wam will cease to be. Therefore, Yaha will relocate Kado to a less populated area, to avoid collateral damage from any possible military action.
 
May 6, 2017 3:14 AM

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Episode felt super short for some reason, but I enjoyed the snobs in the UN getting the rug pulled from under them immensely. Serves you arseholes right.

Let's just see just how anarchy shall reign now.
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