| For the upteen millionth time, no, apples are not oranges and US animation is not anime. Doesn't mean they're not good though. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
OneNaughtyBear said: Definition of anime according to Merriam-Webster dictionary: a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes And I don't consider Chinese/Korean cartoons anime either. Until the official definition changes, anime is from Japan. Just wanted to point out that the definition you're quoting doesn't support your argument. "Style of animation originating in Japan" means that the style itself, and not the show, originates from Japan. By that definition any show with "stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes" can be considered anime, regardless of where it was made. (That's my opinion) Oxford dictionary's definition is a little vague but works better for your case: "A style of Japanese film and television animation, typically aimed at adults as well as children." |
AnotherGuyMay 3, 2017 2:29 PM
| I don't think they should be as they aren't Japanese, I don't get why this site has Korean and Chinese Cartoons on it though. |
Mods sneakily moved the topic from anime discussions to music and entertainment.  |
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actually this is just a new acc, i joined 2014, but I got banned from a lot so I made a new one but by no accounts am I new... |
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| Here we go again. Is this thread not locked yet? Anime was originally created by China. This spread to Japan and korea. Now its centered in Japan and korea with some chinese productions still made. With different animation and art styles (from FMA to Shin chan), there is no way to pin down a type or art-style as "anime", rather it will remain as "entertainment animations created by Asian companies for airing on asian media channels". Fucking /thread I also like how the mods moved this to music and entertainment. |
the40ftbadger said: i have palpable amounts of salt for FO4. It's like a clown put on my dead dad's clothes and is running around my house going "LOOK I'M YOUR DAD, ISN'T THIS FUN?!?!" |
| I would say no simply because the themes are kind of more reminiscent of Chinese mythology and storytelling. Not that there is much difference a lot of the time... I just think the emphasis on kind of close-relations and adventures is a lot more kind of charming and comedic as opposed to mythic and epic like Miyazaki. The whole Korra universe seemed like it was ripped straight out of late 19th century English-Hong Kong relations and universe that was emerging at that time (complete with sensationalist news things) Obviously the Kiyoshi seem to have been vaguely angling at a Samurai thing, but then they were just feudal-clan warriors moreso which were everywhere (moreso in China than Japan, to be honest) The catbus was definitely copyright infringement levels of thievery on the catbus from Totoro though, that's for sure. |
Kuma said: because they are also writed anime (they has same kanji)... that's what i heard in database thread... really? the same kanji? I'll have you know it's the "same" because kanji uses chinese characters. also, many of those are simplified characters and are actually different in written form from traditional characters, which is what kanji borrows. frankly i can't see why anyone would use the justification that mal only lists something because it's produced in japan or directed towards a japanese audience when it's obvious that's not the case. i'm 100% sure your quan zhi gao shou primary audience isn't in japan. it's also somewhat offensive that it's listing a chinese title as a "japanese" title... whoever runs this site should know better than that. ezikialrage said: Outside of Japan anime refers to Japanese cartoons made primarily for a Japanese audience. bs and you know it. at least if we're talking about what mal includes in its database, considering the fact that this site is titled myanimelist. i will accept this definition though- Johnnyd3rp said: Everything made by people with almond eyes is anime edit: actually, no, i lied i can't accept that definition either. if this were the case, then mal should also have most of the chinese and korean cartoons in its database too, which it doesn't. |
chromeMay 4, 2017 9:40 PM
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| I agree that they are both anime. They're a variation of the original but still closely related to the seed. Avatar is anime, get over it anime purists. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I voted no, but if we consider it to be a style then yes |
| "My only agenda is to eviscerate any who might try to rule over and control me"- Sousuke Aizen "Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life... but if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it"- Orochimaru "All men are not created equal... both in birth and in upbringing, in sheer scope of ability, every human is inherently different"- Charles zi Britannia We are the Contra Mundi. We serve the great inimical Goddess who in her own time will destroy the world. Tremble, reprobates, in fear of her pitiless gaze. |
| anybody that just thinks anime is just made in japan is the true Casual. I just want avatar & korra to have the respect they deserve, I know that's a lot to ask of you a-holes who say shit just to hear themselves talk/post to sound like all the other butthurt japanime fans. feel free to butthurt post now. P.S that means you naysayers. |
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| LOL....MAL mods moved this thread OUT of Anime Discussion forum... I guess that tells you where they stand on this matter! |
carpaccio said: Kuma said: because they are also writed anime (they has same kanji)... that's what i heard in database thread... really? the same kanji? I'll have you know it's the "same" because kanji uses chinese characters. also, many of those are simplified characters and are actually different in written form from traditional characters, which is what kanji borrows. frankly i can't see why anyone would use the justification that mal only lists something because it's produced in japan or directed towards a japanese audience when it's obvious that's not the case. i'm 100% sure your quan zhi gao shou primary audience isn't in japan. it's also somewhat offensive that it's listing a chinese title as a "japanese" title... whoever runs this site should know better than that. do you realize that animation in japan originated from china? hence the confusing started... and it's not only happened on MAL... you can see chinese anime in every anime database like anidb or ann... (what i don't understand why they still rejecting taiwanese animation, even they are formally part of china, they still can't moved from 2 china policy) again, i don't disagree with calling avatar as anime, i simply disagree it added on MAL... because if avatar is anime, then every cartoon in existance must added to database... i doubt mal have enough staff to do that... anime simply cartoon if using japan standard... anime is east asian cartoon if we using westeron standard... avatar is no exception and i don't see why it is a special case... bakawatcher said: anybody that just thinks anime is just made in japan is the true Casual. I just want avatar & korra to have the respect they deserve, I know that's a lot to ask of you a-holes who say shit just to hear themselves talk/post to sound like all the other butthurt japanime fans. feel free to butthurt post now. P.S that means you naysayers. why calling it anime soo important? it doesn't mean shit... |
KumaMay 5, 2017 1:37 AM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: carpaccio said: really? the same kanji? I'll have you know it's the "same" because kanji uses chinese characters. also, many of those are simplified characters and are actually different in written form from traditional characters, which is what kanji borrows. frankly i can't see why anyone would use the justification that mal only lists something because it's produced in japan or directed towards a japanese audience when it's obvious that's not the case. i'm 100% sure your quan zhi gao shou primary audience isn't in japan. it's also somewhat offensive that it's listing a chinese title as a "japanese" title... whoever runs this site should know better than that. do you realize that animation in japan originated from china? hence the confusing started... and it's not only happened on MAL... you can see chinese anime in every anime database like anidb or ann... (what i don't understand why they still rejecting taiwanese animation, even they are formally part of china, they still can't moved from 2 china policy) First off, i'm not buying the statement that anime originated from China. What's your source on this? 2nd, even if this were true, Japan and China aren't the same thing. Everyone claiming that all anime on here is from japan only and directed towards a Japanese audience is flat out wrong. Idc if that's their personal definition, but their personal definition isn't going to explain why Chinese cartoons are included here |
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carpaccio said: Kuma said: do you realize that animation in japan originated from china? hence the confusing started... and it's not only happened on MAL... you can see chinese anime in every anime database like anidb or ann... (what i don't understand why they still rejecting taiwanese animation, even they are formally part of china, they still can't moved from 2 china policy) First off, i'm not buying the statement that anime originated from China. What's your source on this? what i mean originated was not that they are the creator, but animation technique was transferred from europe to japan obviously flowing from china first, and they are influencing each other... hence why their early animation was pretty similiar since they does correlated each other... the difference developed after that... they got totaly separated when political come to table with sino-japan war after meiji... chinese animation however got hit by cultural revolution and declined since then... they just recovered recently with their economic bubble... during this time, it's when first time pop culture western know chinese animation and they are confused since theay are pretty similiar to begin with.. https://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=1327615&fileOId=1327616 carpaccio said: 2nd, even if this were true, Japan and China aren't the same thing. Everyone claiming that all anime on here is from japan only and directed towards a Japanese audience is flat out wrong. Idc if that's their personal definition, but their personal definition isn't going to explain why Chinese cartoons are included here eh, most people in here saying anime=cartoon, nothing more nothing less... the restriction apply on mal simply for database sake... some people does thinking like that, but then again, you should ask them, not me... i don't understand why calling avatar anime mean anything either... what's the difference? |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
JustALEX said: LOL....MAL mods moved this thread OUT of Anime Discussion forum... I guess that tells you where they stand on this matter! This lol I guess you lost OP. Even the mods don't agree with you xD Anyway, that's cartoon. I don't regard it as anime. |
 Join Emilia's self-proclaimed knights club if you are a fellow Emilia fan |
Kuma said: carpaccio said: First off, i'm not buying the statement that anime originated from China. What's your source on this? what i mean originated was not that they are the creator, but animation technique was transferred from europe to japan obviously flowing from china first, and they are influencing each other... hence why their early animation was pretty similiar since they does correlated each other... the difference developed after that... they got totaly separated when political come to table with sino-japan war after meiji... chinese animation however got hit by cultural revolution and declined since then... they just recovered recently with their economic bubble... during this time, it's when first time pop culture western know chinese animation and they are confused since theay are pretty similiar to begin with.. https://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=1327615&fileOId=1327616 carpaccio said: 2nd, even if this were true, Japan and China aren't the same thing. Everyone claiming that all anime on here is from japan only and directed towards a Japanese audience is flat out wrong. Idc if that's their personal definition, but their personal definition isn't going to explain why Chinese cartoons are included here eh, most people in here saying anime=cartoon, nothing more nothing less... the restriction apply on mal simply for database sake... some people does thinking like that, but then again, you should ask them, not me... i don't understand why calling avatar anime mean anything either... what's the difference? I'm not sure whether you even read the title of that article. Originate means that anime started in China. There is no evidence that it did so. In fact the article that you linked describes how Japanese animation influenced Chinese culture, and not the other way around. Influenced is not the same as originate. Kuma said: but then again, you should ask them This is what I was doing until you decided to respond. |
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| Avatar is American animation since 99% of the people involved are from America. Definitely it's not Japanese animation. I don't care if anyone names "anime" something made outside Japan and/or by non-Japanese people, but for me anime is just a different way to identify Japanese and Japanese only animation. So no, Avatar has nothing to do with anime. |
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| No Avatar is not anime. I do not think that shows created anywhere but Japan should be on Mal. I think if you think Avatar is an anime than you should think Disney films are anime. If you don't consider Disney anime then, Do you consider Glibly anime. By created in Japan I mean the creative elements not the grunt work. |
carpaccio said: Kuma said: what i mean originated was not that they are the creator, but animation technique was transferred from europe to japan obviously flowing from china first, and they are influencing each other... hence why their early animation was pretty similiar since they does correlated each other... the difference developed after that... they got totaly separated when political come to table with sino-japan war after meiji... chinese animation however got hit by cultural revolution and declined since then... they just recovered recently with their economic bubble... during this time, it's when first time pop culture western know chinese animation and they are confused since theay are pretty similiar to begin with.. https://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=1327615&fileOId=1327616 eh, most people in here saying anime=cartoon, nothing more nothing less... the restriction apply on mal simply for database sake... some people does thinking like that, but then again, you should ask them, not me... i don't understand why calling avatar anime mean anything either... what's the difference? I'm not sure whether you even read the title of that article. Originate means that anime started in China. There is no evidence that it did so. In fact the article that you linked describes how Japanese animation influenced Chinese culture, and not the other way around. Influenced is not the same as originate. sigh...this is why i hate i don't save any article i read online because my shitty pc... when i read history of oldest animation in japan, it was brough by europe trough china by same style group... hence why both of them was kinda similiar... go watch prencess of iron fortress (during sino-japan war) and momotaro (2 film during ww2) to see it your self... again, i never saying orignated as creator but as source... east asia animation was introduced by western cartoon to begin with... the article it self explained why japan and chinese animation was similiar with anime especially during the revival of chinese animation on 80's, the same time western pop culture contacted with them hence the confussion... carpaccio said: Kuma said: but then again, you should ask them This is what I was doing until you decided to respond. i simply answering why they including east asia animation but not avatar was understable... oh, even north korean animation was on mal too... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: sigh...this is why i hate i don't save any article i read online because my shitty pc... when i read history of oldest animation in japan, it was brough by europe trough china by same style group... hence why both of them was kinda similiar... go watch prencess of iron fortress (during sino-japan war) and momotaro (2 film during ww2) to see it your self... again, i never saying orignated as creator but as source... east asia animation was introduced by western cartoon to begin with... the article it self explained why japan and chinese animation was similiar with anime especially during the revival of chinese animation on 80's, the same time western pop culture contacted with them hence the confussion... no actual source no dice sorry =\ Kuma said: i simply answering why they including east asia animation but not avatar was understable... oh, even north korean animation was on mal too... the claim was that according to mal, anime is only from japan. east asian was never specified in any of the posts i quoted previously. had it been, i wouldn't have asked why chinese cartoons were also in the database. again, china and korea =/= japan. it doesn't matter how much influence one has on another, they aren't the same thing. claiming that either china or korea is the same as japan just because they heavily influence each other or use the some of the same written characters makes one either ignorant, racist, or both. now if they simply said that they weren't aware chinese or korean cartoons were also listed as anime series on mal and that they disagree with the listing, that's another story. |
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carpaccio said: Kuma said: sigh...this is why i hate i don't save any article i read online because my shitty pc... when i read history of oldest animation in japan, it was brough by europe trough china by same style group... hence why both of them was kinda similiar... go watch prencess of iron fortress (during sino-japan war) and momotaro (2 film during ww2) to see it your self... again, i never saying orignated as creator but as source... east asia animation was introduced by western cartoon to begin with... the article it self explained why japan and chinese animation was similiar with anime especially during the revival of chinese animation on 80's, the same time western pop culture contacted with them hence the confussion... no actual source no dice sorry =\ OK carpaccio said: the claim was that according to mal, anime is only from japan. east asian was never specified in any of the posts i quoted previously. had it been, i wouldn't have asked why chinese cartoons were also in the database. again, china and korea =/= japan. it doesn't matter how much influence one has on another, they aren't the same thing. claiming that either china or korea is the same as japan just because they heavily influence each other or use the some of the same written characters makes one either ignorant, racist, or both. now if they simply said that they weren't aware chinese or korean cartoons were also listed as anime series on mal and that they disagree with the listing, that's another story. MAL (in here database, not comunity) never claimed such a thing... https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141101 there is no distinction between japan, china, and korea because it's useless i think because they are not that different... not to mention korean and china animation just recently become noticable... the distinction was very clear in comic counter part since japan,china, and korea comic has estabilished stable industry... |
KumaMay 5, 2017 8:23 PM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: carpaccio said: the claim was that according to mal, anime is only from japan. east asian was never specified in any of the posts i quoted previously. had it been, i wouldn't have asked why chinese cartoons were also in the database. again, china and korea =/= japan. it doesn't matter how much influence one has on another, they aren't the same thing. claiming that either china or korea is the same as japan just because they heavily influence each other or use the some of the same written characters makes one either ignorant, racist, or both. now if they simply said that they weren't aware chinese or korean cartoons were also listed as anime series on mal and that they disagree with the listing, that's another story. MAL (in here database, not comunity) never claimed such a thing... https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141101 right but that's not my reference, my reference were the posts i initially quoted, thus "the claim" |
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carpaccio said: Kuma said: MAL (in here database, not comunity) never claimed such a thing... https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141101 right but that's not my reference, my reference were the posts i initially quoted, thus "the claim" and i am answering why chinese animation is added to database as well... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: carpaccio said: right but that's not my reference, my reference were the posts i initially quoted, thus "the claim" and i am answering why chinese animation is added to database as well... right, because mal itself does include chinese and korean animations and considers it as anime. however if we were to go by the definitions some posters have made in this thread that they claim to be mal's definition, which = only from japan/directed to japanese audience, then it's just flat out incorrect. hence why neither of the individuals i quoted responded. |
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carpaccio said: right, because mal itself does include chinese and korean animations and considers it as anime. however if we were to go by the definitions some posters have made in this thread that they claim to be mal's definition, which = only from japan/directed to japanese audience, then it's just flat out incorrect. hence why neither of the individuals i quoted responded. some posters doesn't representing the whole mal? |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: that's why i specifically quoted them ...some posters doesn't representing the whole mal? |
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carpaccio said: bs and you know it. at least if we're talking about what mal includes in its database, considering the fact that this site is titled myanimelist. MAL used to list Thuiundercats and various other cartoons whose animation was outsourced to Japan. Just because MAL chooses to list Chinese and Korean cartoons does not make those anime. |
ezikialrage said: carpaccio said: bs and you know it. at least if we're talking about what mal includes in its database, considering the fact that this site is titled myanimelist. MAL used to list Thuiundercats and various other cartoons whose animation was outsourced to Japan. Just because MAL chooses to list Chinese and Korean cartoons does not make those anime. it's fine if you choose to disagree with what mal considers anime, but i understood your response to be in the context of the op, rather than what anime is in general. this being why doesn't mal include korra and avatar if it considers chinese and korean cartoons to be anime. |
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carpaccio said: ezikialrage said: MAL used to list Thuiundercats and various other cartoons whose animation was outsourced to Japan. Just because MAL chooses to list Chinese and Korean cartoons does not make those anime. it's fine if you choose to disagree with what mal considers anime, but i understood your response to be in the context of the op, rather than what anime is in general. this being why doesn't mal include korra and avatar if it considers chinese and korean cartoons to be anime. Scanner Darkly and Waking Life shares the same animation style as Aku no Hana and Kowabon. Technotise: Edit & I is a Serbain cartoon that shares the same animation style as a lot of anime, should it be called a anime? So does Boondocks, Teen Titans, Totally Spies!, various American made Transformers cartoons, Code Lyoko, Monica Teen , Kung Fu Jimmy Chow and many others share the same animation style of many anime. Do we start calling those anime? Crayon Shin Chan, Kanashimi no Belladonna, Cleopatra, Senya Ichiya Monogatari, 1001 Nights and many other anime doesn't have the animation style as many typical anime, do we stop calling those anime?There are many anime that look like What many people who don't know any better think of anime is based merely on one of the many animation styles that is used in anime. They think oh the characters have big pancake eyes, unrealistic hair color and its about something other than comedy so it must be anime. |
ezikialrage said: carpaccio said: it's fine if you choose to disagree with what mal considers anime, but i understood your response to be in the context of the op, rather than what anime is in general. this being why doesn't mal include korra and avatar if it considers chinese and korean cartoons to be anime. Scanner Darkly and Waking Life shares the same animation style as Aku no Hana and Kowabon. Technotise: Edit & I is a Serbain cartoon that shares the same animation style as a lot of anime, should it be called a anime? So does Boondocks, Teen Titans, Totally Spies!, various American made Transformers cartoons, Code Lyoko, Monica Teen , Kung Fu Jimmy Chow and many others share the same animation style of many anime. Do we start calling those anime? Crayon Shin Chan, Kanashimi no Belladonna, Cleopatra, Senya Ichiya Monogatari, 1001 Nights and many other anime doesn't have the animation style as many typical anime, do we stop calling those anime?There are many anime that look like What many people who don't know any better think of anime is based merely on one of the many animation styles that is used in anime. They think oh the characters have big pancake eyes, unrealistic hair color and its about something other than comedy so it must be anime. still not quite sure what point you're trying to make here. my issue is that you claimed anime to be from japan only - which is fine, as long as you're understanding that mal doesn't follow your definition, or the general definition of what anime is. if we're talking in the context of op's question which is what mal considers as anime by its own guidelines, and why there are chinese and korean cartoons in the database, clearly by mal standards anime isn't from japan only. also your point was that mal USED to list thundercats and various other cartoons (which you're implying it has hence been removed as mal has revised its definition); i'm pointing out the things that currently exist in its database by its current definition: 1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database: Professionally produced, animated works created: in Japan for the Japanese market; in Korea/China for the Korean/Chinese market; as a joint production between Japan/Korea/China and another country. Note: This does not include productions where only the animation is outsourced. you can personally go on calling anime whatever you want. i may not agree and mal certainly doesn't use your definition, nor does google even, but i frankly don't care how you personally want to define anime. the only thing that i will completely disagree with is that your definition of anime is the same as what mal considers anime, because that's just not true. |
chromeMay 7, 2017 9:49 AM
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| I read somewhere that Japanese people count it as an anime because it just means any cartoon. But I wouldn't refer it as an anime tbh since the association with anime is not just all cartoons, its japanese cartoons. Though it's heavily influence by anime art styles, nah. |
| Xtina is my mother! |
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