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Poll: How would you rate this character?


#1
Feb 19, 2010 9:51 AM

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Spotlight Character: Nana Komatsu (NANA)



MAL Character Information Page: Nana "Hachi" Komatsu


MAL Favorites: 477

For the next week I would like to have everyone familiar with this character discuss what they think makes it an exceptional character. What attributes make it stand out in the ocean of interesting characters that exist in the realms of anime and manga.

Unlike the other two subjects I will not force this conversation to fall into any set structure. Characters that are nominated typically get here because they are adept at breaking the existing character moulds and defying definition.

Because of this freedom I encourage everyone to do their very best to stay on topic and keep any and all debate civil. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this character.


RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL

Nana Komutso was NOT inducted into the club Character list:
10 Yes - 31.2%
22 No - 68.7%

50 Don't know this character - 60.9% of the total number polled
0 Abstained - 0.0% of the total number polled
Modified by santetjan, Mar 1, 2010 3:19 PM
You do not beg the sun for mercy.
 
#2
Feb 20, 2010 6:17 AM

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Please refer to the other Nana as well, because I commented a bit on this one on her spotlight.

In resume, I find this Nana very true. I fully identify with her and understand all her actions, even though most of them are dumb. However, I know a lot of real life Hachis and sometimes I'm a bit Hachi. She is not a character anymore, she is human. I find her a perfectly constructed character, as her incongruency is very accurate to what happens in reality.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
#3
Feb 21, 2010 12:23 PM

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I hate her. She's crap and never learns her lesson, even though she recognizes her problems. This is realistic for some people, but it's still very bad. Unfortunately, the anime didn't have enough quantity of multiplied by quality of music to save it from Hachi's negative effect.

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#4
Feb 21, 2010 1:16 PM

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gave her a 7. she has no control on her own life.. i dont know how people can be some dumb but meh kinda too emo at the wrong parts of the manga. other nana was a lot better. post trapnest this char is getting worse with all the drama.


 
#5
Feb 21, 2010 8:21 PM

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She's one of the most annoying female characters i can remember. I hate how her dumbness creates more and more drama and she never learns. She never grows up and I feel she's kept a dumb character for the sake of creating drama and continuing the manga! I never have been able to feel for her or see any depth in her character. She's the usual too kind and too dumb character we see in many shojou creations. I like Nana story wise but Nana/hachi the character is nothing special in my opinion.


 
#6
Feb 22, 2010 3:26 AM

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As has already been said, she is a tragically realistic character. It's unfortunate but people who are as oblivious and delusional as her exist and are plentiful. Her only redeeming quality is her appearance and arguably her meekness. She makes numerous bad decisions even after reasoning out what the best choice should be (and not choosing it) because of some insane obsession to feel like she's needed.

Even though it seems like she was supposed to be the main character, I think at some point the writer realized how worthless she is and attempted to downplay her as much as possible. Basically all of her friends disappear after a few volumes and she completely assimilates into the non-worthless Nana's group. She's hardly more than an object at this point.

Just another example of how realistic character ≠ good character.
 
#7
Feb 23, 2010 11:07 AM

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I kind of agree with everyone. She is realistic and identifiable to a fault. And that fault is development. I suppose if she had been an older character, it wouldn't be so abhorrent, but to me, Nana is as much a coming of age tale as it is a show about the music business and romance. In that regard, I feel like Hachi fails, because she never assumes responsibility for her own life. But then, we come back to the fact that if the show is a character study, it does a magnificent job at getting to the heart of her delusion. Whereas Oozaki is more at fault for lacking in development, part of me loves the idea of this horrific woman (not a bad character), even though she ruins the lives of a cast that I adore.

As a character, I don't think we are supposed to like her, and she does her job well. It's one of these occasions where we have to weigh how much we like a character with how much we were able to feel for them. And hate is a feeling just as valid as love.

I'm torn.
 
#8
Feb 24, 2010 7:50 PM

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Nana Komatsu is the greatest character of all time. She is the greatest "stereotypical" "dumb" girly girl in a manga ever.

Yes, she does have the typical shoujo traits of her being needy , clingy, very girly, whatever you assume sereotypical whiny shoujo leads are. and I have to say, I did hate her quite as well, because i thought she is really dumb... but Hachi is anything BUT dumb. and if you don't see this, I am curious as to how much you have read.


What really shows her maturity and responsibility is how she reacted when she was pregnant. If it were any other happy-go-lucky dumb shoujo lead, she would have stayed with Nobu since she "loves him more" and whatnot. But no, Hachi knew staying with Takumi would be the best for the baby regardless of her own feelings on the ordeal.

And honestly, the more I see her progress in the story after being married to takumi, the more I see her as being very in control of her life and trying to make the best of the situation. Sure, she might have been happier with Nobu, but he could not handle the responsibility of being a father and taking care of both hachi and the child. Even though Takumi treats Hachi like shit, and she's not really oblivious to it either, she still stays with him through it all not necessarily because of her feelings but because she knows that it would be bad to break it off with him.

I don't see how you all think Nana is more responsible than Hachi. All nana does in the more recent volumes is wallow in her self-pity, but Hachi has overcome that and puts effort into living her life the best she can. She is also so attune to others feelings to some extent, how she "mothers" shin, and cares deeply for how Nana is feeling,and tries her hardest to make an effort to see Nana when she is really down, which is especially seen in the chapters leading up to Ren's death.

Considering NANA is actually told from Hachi's point of view from the future, you can see very well into her thoughts, and you can see how even though her relationship with Takumi seems to be failing in the future with their two kids, that she still has her life together and is making the best of it.

Hachi is the one of the most "in-control of her life" characters in Nana, and is anything but the dumb stereotypical shoujo lead that she deceivingly starts off as.

And yes, She does start off as your typical shoujo dumb lead, which is why I'm sure many of you dislike her (myself included). She just concerned about boys and romance, but who isnt at her age? But when faced with a life-changing decision with getting married and the responsibility of a child, Hachi does what is right, sure she has a few blunders and acts stupid along the way, but she is anything but stupid in my eyes.
Modified by katsup, Feb 24, 2010 8:04 PM
 
#9
Feb 25, 2010 8:18 PM

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Nope. The only "right'' decision was having an abortion.
 
Feb 26, 2010 3:18 AM

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noteDhero said:
Nope. The only "right'' decision was having an abortion.

Ya know, sometimes people think with something else besides their brains.
True story.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
Feb 26, 2010 4:08 AM

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Just a quick look at what Nana (Hachi) has done as of chapter 84. It's also important to note that I only started reading from chapter 40ish (where the anime ends):

  • She whores it up in high school and is generally a dumb slut.
  • She basically fails out of art college.
  • She constantly relies on Junko (giving basically nothing back).
  • She moves to Tokyo to be with a Guy she has shallow connections with (and who later dumps her).
  • She attempts to hold down a real job but fails to be anything less than shitty at it, showing a complete lack of responsibility (in line with her life so far).
  • She realizes her infatuation for Takumi isn't actually love... then gets knocked up by him anyway.
  • She ends up keeping the baby because she's too afraid to make a decision. If she actually makes a choice then she has responsibility for it, so instead she takes the easy path and allows the choice to be made for her.
  • She realizes she loves Nobu but chooses to reject him because of the baby (or rather used the baby as a way to justify not being able to make a real choice between the two men).

  • She spends most of her time after that attempting to help other Nana/Rin as a means to justify her shallow existence while she leaches off Takumi.
  • A MAJOR EVENT happens and she spends most of her time supporting other Nana.

Now you could argue that she keeps the baby because she believes it's morally wrong to abort or because it's morally wrong not to consider the wished of the father but the reality is that she doesn't express that and her prior actions don't support that type of moral code. You are also correct about her becoming less worthless but that has allot to do with everyone else becoming more pathetic. She still lives largely as a child, safe in the assumption that someone will protect her regardless of how badly she screws up. In a sick way isn't Satsuki only there to protect her from dieing without purpose?

The only person in Nana who's actually in control of their life is Yasushi.

Also in the anime the narration done by Hachi is done as a back and forth between the two Nanas instead, which puts a completely different spin on the series.

EDIT: I forgot one thing. She helped Nana reconnect with Rin... but credit where credit is due, that's largely the reason Nana is in her current ruined state.
 
Feb 26, 2010 9:24 AM

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Nah, she kept the baby because she saw a cute embryo and could not kill it.

And I've met a person who kept hers exactly for the same reason.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
Feb 26, 2010 10:39 AM

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ladyxzeus said:
noteDhero said:
Nope. The only "right'' decision was having an abortion.

Ya know, sometimes people think with something else besides their brains.
True story.


I know. But saying that the 'right' choice was to keep the baby and marry Takumi is incredibly shortsighted.
 
Feb 26, 2010 7:10 PM

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ladyxzeus said:
Nah, she kept the baby because she saw a cute embryo and could not kill it.

And I've met a person who kept hers exactly for the same reason.
Even assuming that's true, she doesn't show any intention of making a choice on the issue early on. She waits on the choice because she doesn't want to feel responsible, then it becomes too late for her to justify "killing" it (even though this type of morality isn't previously established). She is still allowing the choice to make itself because she's too meek to actually live her life.
 
Feb 27, 2010 6:28 AM

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I think that she is a real character - a true one - who can live in real world because life means also mistakes. It's true that she makes most of the time mistakes and she is instable but i understand her. Finally she realize what she truly wants but what she did wrong can't be fixed.
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Feb 28, 2010 5:34 AM

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noteDhero said:
ladyxzeus said:
noteDhero said:
Nope. The only "right'' decision was having an abortion.

Ya know, sometimes people think with something else besides their brains.
True story.


I know. But saying that the 'right' choice was to keep the baby and marry Takumi is incredibly shortsighted.

If we see it from her perspective she probably though it would be the "right" choice. I questioned myself a variety of times after that moment in the anime "why didnt you stay with Nbu as he treated you well for once?" but looking at this like katsup said... It makes sense. Not semantically perfect, but makes some sense.

bbobjs said:
ladyxzeus said:
Nah, she kept the baby because she saw a cute embryo and could not kill it.

And I've met a person who kept hers exactly for the same reason.
Even assuming that's true, she doesn't show any intention of making a choice on the issue early on. She waits on the choice because she doesn't want to feel responsible, then it becomes too late for her to justify "killing" it (even though this type of morality isn't previously established). She is still allowing the choice to make itself because she's too meek to actually live her life.

I never supposed morality and whatsoever was supposed to be at stake here. I know 2 ladies that went through an abortion because they could not really raise anymore kids. And never through their heads the issue "this is morally right or wrong" appeared, as far as they've told me. A lot of things like economy and feeling horrible were considered, but "wong" or "right" were not. This to say... When you have to go through the process you probably don't think if it's right or wrong, you don't have an internal debate similar to those we watch on tv. So, even on this, I find Hachi's dilemma realistic. Yes, she was dumb and she kept the baby. But she just could not kill the cute morula inside of her for no apparent reason.

Geez people, we sometimes do things for no apparent reason.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori
 
Feb 28, 2010 6:22 AM

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If you assume that no moral debate takes place in her head before making her "choice" to keep the baby, then the need for my previous explanation of how she's not actually making a choice can be replaced by a much more simple one. She is now no longer delaying her decision because of a moral struggle but instead delaying it simply for the sake of delaying it. In stead of struggling between two options and waiting until one disappeared, she is not even considering either option and hoping that if she ignores it long enough the problem will go away. When she's out of time to delay she realizes that 'killing' is against her moral code (regardless of if she's actively aware of this, that is what not being able to kill means). In either case she isn't actually choosing.

Case 1: Is aware of her moral code and struggles with a choice until it's too late to justify bending her code = forced choice.
Case 2: Is unaware of her moral code but never considered making a choice in the first place = defaulted choice.

You could argue she made the choice to wait but even that is a passive choice that shows lack of control over her life.
 
Feb 28, 2010 6:43 AM

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I think it happens exacly what you said, it was a passive choice. No moral involved, it does not matter if she is aware or not. She simply waited, looked at the proto-baby, could not get rid of it at the moment, then she waited, then she started accepting she would have to keep it forever. Then she gave it a name.
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori