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Apr 7, 2017 4:23 AM
#1

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Apr 2015
240
In the credits, 3 people are listed as a "Unity エンジニア", translated as Unity Engineer. I searched up the exact same phrasing in Google and it lists plenty of jobs for Unity 3D.

It seems very strange to implement CG (that actually looks really nice) in a real-time game engine rather than something like Blender, Maya or 3DS Max which are commonplace for colleges in Japan providing Anime CG courses and are industry standard.

To be honest though, on a lot of the environments (not any on characters), there's quiet a bit of aliasing on things like decal textures for roads, but with solid models having the typical MSAA look to it.

In any case, it's looking good for a CGI anime so I'm not complaining, just thought it was very interesting. Like how CrazyTown used Unreal Engine 3 for the backgrounds, though that was mainly for real-time sync and composition with cameras for the CG backgrounds.

Apr 7, 2017 7:22 AM
#2

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Jul 2012
411
Wao! I didn't realise. This is truly interesting, and it actually looks much better than other CGI anime out there.
よろしく!
Apr 7, 2017 3:36 PM
#3

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Jun 2010
1091
We might be looking at some presentation of new state-of-the-art CGI-ing. Probably some investment deal in technology presented as anime.

Yes, most would present it within a game which would give back the investors a hefty profit margin, but if the objective is exclusively marketing, there isn't any media better than anime to showcase new CG tech, since you make everything in CGI.

Also, if I'm right: it's fucking beautiful and I want it to succeed so I won't cringe with CGI in anime anymore.
Apr 7, 2017 11:11 PM
#4
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Aug 2015
23
It's becoming more of a thing to use game engine tech to do rendering, because they're designed around faster iteration times than traditional film rendering, which maximizes quality but aims for minutes to hours on individual frames. Being able to preview a nearly-final version in real time and then slightly bump up the quality for final is much better for the animator's workflow than having a huge gap between low-poly mannequins and a completed scene and allows more details to be perfected. Rogue One also used Unreal Engine 4 for some cuts.

I find the people animation in this series a little bit stiff and clearly CGI, but in stills it looks amazing.
Apr 7, 2017 11:26 PM
#5

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Jan 2009
92307
big if true
cool if true
lol

but seriously thats great, too bad this is not an action oriented show so i dropped it
Apr 8, 2017 12:27 AM
#6
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Jan 2015
15
This is great news for CG anime series. A really great news, and still casual fans doesn't care.

I think they want to kept pushing for it, because of Netflix or Disney. Disney keeps buying CG anime from Japan, and outsourcing some projects on Toei's CG department.

And remember that traditional animators will go extinct in the future, even more rarer than before. Kids nowadays doesn't like to work on a sweatshop, with a salary lower than a cashier, compare to a CG animator with a x2 or greater income by just sitting all day and clicking buttons.
Apr 9, 2017 1:37 AM
#7

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Apr 2015
240
Just took a screenshot that has good examples of some of the background rendering in the series.



While this scene does look nice at first glance, you can definitely tell it it's rendered real-time cause of some of the artifacts you can see.

You can see that the white text on the road has a material which uses an alpha-cutoff texture to mask the text. It's common to have that issue with Unity, but using just standard alpha-blending is a better solution. I also noticed that on some parts of the bushes, you can clearly see a really small outline on the texture, I don't know why, if it's a part of some shader or whatever.

Also, the characters don't have the best smoothing that you can see on their black outlines. I think this is cause it's using the default MSAA in Unity, which makes things sharp but isn't the best. (TXAA and Temporal AA would be better). Looks like the characters are placed and shown smaller than the native resolution of those characters, and if it was done in After Effects, the lines wouldn't be as sharp and ugly.

Also, the trees have some peculiar properties to them. You can see a lot of aliasing between the very bright sides and dark sides, which would never happen if the trees were painted like that before importing the textures to Unity. So it might be that they have two or more diffuse textures that has it's opacity masked by the direction of the main directional light source or some other method. Personally it looks ugly and has a lot of artifacts.

I think game engines are also far more efficient for rendering CG with a low budget (like 99.9% of anime). Cause most of the lighting, materials and camera effects are really quick to edit, you can see changes as they happen, and are much, MUCH, MUCH, 10x as much easier to learn, and has a better workflow. Hand Shakers is a prime example of piss poor CG that looks like it took the CG artists much more time rendering than fixing most of the issues with the 3D models.

So yeah, very interesting tech being used, but still needs a bit of polishing.
MysteriousSoulApr 9, 2017 1:50 AM

Jun 16, 2017 7:50 AM
#8
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Feb 2015
69
MysteriousSoul said:
Just took a screenshot that has good examples of some of the background rendering in the series.



While this scene does look nice at first glance, you can definitely tell it it's rendered real-time cause of some of the artifacts you can see.

You can see that the white text on the road has a material which uses an alpha-cutoff texture to mask the text. It's common to have that issue with Unity, but using just standard alpha-blending is a better solution. I also noticed that on some parts of the bushes, you can clearly see a really small outline on the texture, I don't know why, if it's a part of some shader or whatever.

Also, the characters don't have the best smoothing that you can see on their black outlines. I think this is cause it's using the default MSAA in Unity, which makes things sharp but isn't the best. (TXAA and Temporal AA would be better). Looks like the characters are placed and shown smaller than the native resolution of those characters, and if it was done in After Effects, the lines wouldn't be as sharp and ugly.

Also, the trees have some peculiar properties to them. You can see a lot of aliasing between the very bright sides and dark sides, which would never happen if the trees were painted like that before importing the textures to Unity. So it might be that they have two or more diffuse textures that has it's opacity masked by the direction of the main directional light source or some other method. Personally it looks ugly and has a lot of artifacts.

I think game engines are also far more efficient for rendering CG with a low budget (like 99.9% of anime). Cause most of the lighting, materials and camera effects are really quick to edit, you can see changes as they happen, and are much, MUCH, MUCH, 10x as much easier to learn, and has a better workflow. Hand Shakers is a prime example of piss poor CG that looks like it took the CG artists much more time rendering than fixing most of the issues with the 3D models.

So yeah, very interesting tech being used, but still needs a bit of polishing.


These backgrounds are all hand drawn ^^
Jun 16, 2017 7:55 AM
#9
Offline
Jun 2017
489
those 3d would be perfect for ps4 games like p5 legend of zelda....
but awful for an anime it make me remember the awful cgi of bersek the 2d animation is still way better
the background in that anime are good at least
Since Koe no Katachi has a very high rating her on MAL, rated by nearly 100k users currently should we try to upvote the movie on the worlds largest database related to films? This movie only has around 4,5k votes at the moment. Let's all vote and make the rating higher?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5323662/

if we make it more popular it will raise more money so it will support the anime industry and make anime more popular between all the peoples since IMDb is not an anime site
so more quality anime will be made
Jun 17, 2017 2:31 AM

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Apr 2015
240
DrBlock42 said:


These backgrounds are all hand drawn ^^

Doubt it for quiet a few of the scenes. A lot of the scenes were hand-drawn, but it would silly for an artist to somehow make pixel-perfect road markings that shift up exactly 1/1080th in scale on paper with naked eyes for perspective. Same goes with the trees and what-not. I broke it down pretty thoroughly, and it if was hand-drawn, then those Unity engineers don't have much to do then since the anisotropic and the characters are done in 3DS MAX (there was an older video on the anime's YouTube channel about this.)

I've worked with Unity for about 5 years and there are a lot of trails of Unity can find in this show.

Jun 17, 2017 5:39 AM
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Feb 2015
69
MysteriousSoul said:

A lot of the scenes were hand-drawn, but it would silly for an artist to somehow make pixel-perfect road markings that shift up exactly 1/1080th in scale on paper with naked eyes for perspective. Same goes with the trees and what-not. I broke it down pretty thoroughly, and it if was hand-drawn, then those Unity engineers don't have much to do then since the anisotropic and the characters are done in 3DS MAX.

There is an article up on Crunchyroll about the techniques used for KADO:

One of the most important tasks was making [the] giant cube, “Kado” into something wondrous and alien. They decided to base it on a Mandelbox, a fractal object found by Tom Lowe in 2010. When Lowe originally posted the formula, 3D fractal enthusiasts explored through its bizarre shapes and set out to create their own variations. [...]

Yasuhiro Kato was one such enthusiast and set out to reproduce the effect, moving from software to software in order to create the image the director had in mind. Eventually this led to Kado’s exterior being rendered in Maya and the interior being developed in the game engine Unity.

The only part of the project they used Unity for was the interior.

These artifacts you pointed out can be found in most anime backgrounds - Because almost all of them are drawn using Photoshop. These are normal digital artifacts caused by perspective tools, etc. These backgrounds are clearly not 3D rendered - What even is this perspective? It's the normal "good enough, but technically wrong"-anime perspective.

And it would simply be silly to composit 2D backgrounds using Unity. No studio in their right mind would ever do this. These backgrounds aren't any different than most anime backgrounds: The consist of some layers - So characters can move through them -, put together with the 2D character art and 3D character art in After Effects.

PS: By no means I want to discredit your Unity experience - As someone who works in an animation studio myself and does a lot of research on the Japanese animation industry, I simply ment to help you.
DrBlock42Jun 17, 2017 5:43 AM
Jun 18, 2017 7:26 PM

Offline
Apr 2015
240
DrBlock42 said:
MysteriousSoul said:

A lot of the scenes were hand-drawn, but it would silly for an artist to somehow make pixel-perfect road markings that shift up exactly 1/1080th in scale on paper with naked eyes for perspective. Same goes with the trees and what-not. I broke it down pretty thoroughly, and it if was hand-drawn, then those Unity engineers don't have much to do then since the anisotropic and the characters are done in 3DS MAX.

There is an article up on Crunchyroll about the techniques used for KADO:

One of the most important tasks was making [the] giant cube, “Kado” into something wondrous and alien. They decided to base it on a Mandelbox, a fractal object found by Tom Lowe in 2010. When Lowe originally posted the formula, 3D fractal enthusiasts explored through its bizarre shapes and set out to create their own variations. [...]

Yasuhiro Kato was one such enthusiast and set out to reproduce the effect, moving from software to software in order to create the image the director had in mind. Eventually this led to Kado’s exterior being rendered in Maya and the interior being developed in the game engine Unity.

The only part of the project they used Unity for was the interior.

These artifacts you pointed out can be found in most anime backgrounds - Because almost all of them are drawn using Photoshop. These are normal digital artifacts caused by perspective tools, etc. These backgrounds are clearly not 3D rendered - What even is this perspective? It's the normal "good enough, but technically wrong"-anime perspective.

And it would simply be silly to composit 2D backgrounds using Unity. No studio in their right mind would ever do this. These backgrounds aren't any different than most anime backgrounds: The consist of some layers - So characters can move through them -, put together with the 2D character art and 3D character art in After Effects.

PS: By no means I want to discredit your Unity experience - As someone who works in an animation studio myself and does a lot of research on the Japanese animation industry, I simply ment to help you.


Ahh I see, I haven't read this article. It's probably because this anime was in actual 1080p, and not 900p upscaled that I could see the full artifacts clearer.

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