The hate for Shounen Anime

Kuma said:


the main problem of fairy tail is not that (thou personaly it kinda abused)...

the main problem of mashima that he hyped character out of nothings and discarded quickly afterwards (talking from recent chapter)... it's like waste of time and make me feel betrayed for being self investment to character especially villian for this series... i mean, look at fucking zeref and what he do for him in recent chapter...

Keiski said:
Why does it seem like everyone hates on Shounen Anime? Particularly the big 5. Like I saw a poll on here discussing who the worst Author between Hiro Mashima, Tite Kubo, and Masashi Kishimoto. Like wtf? There not perfect, but each is enjoyable to a vast majority of people.
Discuss Below.

Keiski said:


While I liked the Buu arc, the peaceful world saga following it (that lead into GT), is the most cringiest crap saga I have ever seen. (Then again it may have just been the Funi voice actors rushing to finish the show.)

RogueBubble said:
From what I heard One Piece stretches thin its content and has long recaps that have made watching the anime a chore. Dragon Ball has a lot filler; power creep that has left many side characters useless to the story; uneven production quality (e.g early episodes of dbs) and squandered the development of Gohan in favour of bringing back Goku.
Super Eyepatch Wolf videos on Naruto and Bleach are my only understanding of those series but the general feel I got was that those series squandered their potential. Which does resonate with my feelings on fairy tail. Villains are hyped to be really dangerous but are easily taken down the next chapter. So many fake outs on deaths so the battles lose all tension. I don't hate it, but I am disappointed that it didn't live up to its potential and has since gone downhill.
I'd suggest you watch Hunter x Hunter (2011) or Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood to see how good shounen really can be.

Johnnyd3rp said:


The Majin Buu arc is a freaking joke, i pretty much enjoyed Dragon Ball until the Cell arc and i freaking loved the part from the beginning to the Goku vs Piccolo fight at the tournament.

It should have ended with the Cell tournament or Goku shouldn't have been revived and let Gohan be the main protagonist for the rest of the manga. Instead we get a freaking long arc with endless power ups for the heroes and the villain.

While I liked the Buu arc, the peaceful world saga following it (that lead into GT), is the most cringiest crap saga I have ever seen. (Then again it may have just been the Funi voice actors rushing to finish the show.)

Keiski said:


Do you have to watch the original HxH first or is the 2011 version a remake?

ashfrliebert said:


The post Buu saga was three chapters lol.

I liked the Fat Maijn Buu. Never too big a fan of the rest of the buus.

Never liked Cell, but Android 17 and 18 were fun. The series utmost peak was obviously Namek, Freiza being probably the best character in the series.

The non-kai anime adaptation of the second Dragon Ball is a joke tho, it's like One Piece's anime on steroids.

Pullman said:
I love battle shounen. But Kubo is still a very bad author. Mashima is like average and Kishimoto is pretty good. That's my opinion.

zumac said:


Would love to know what exactly makes Mashima better than Kubo. Rave Master?

Pullman said:


Idk, I don't know Rave Master but Mashima just never gave me the impression of being particularly talented but he also didn't make any terrible writing decisions. Kubo on the other just made a lot of writing decisions that I find to be actively bad. My main issues are that in Bleach new arcs often felt disconnected from the continuity and seemed to come out of nowhere and not as part of the story organically evolving to new stages. New things are always introduced on a whim and not after having been hinted at, foreshadowed or at least mentioned beforehand. It just feels super awkward when you watch the characters do stuff in that world for hundreds of episodes and then suddenly something new pops up and I am to believe that they just happened to never mention it in any of the 200 previous episodes. To me it shows a lack of planning and not caring about consistency within the setting. Which are bad qualities in a writer, especially for long-runners like that. Oda is so amazing because I have never felt like any development or new character in the show wasn't meticulously planned beforehand while paying attention to not make it be in conflict with any other part of the setting. Kubo is the opposite for me.

And the second reason is that he also consistently ignored things he introduced to the world of Bleach at some point as soon as he gets bored of it, even if it has tons of potential and could make the show much more intriguing. The two prime examples for this are on the one hand the Kido combat spells which were intitially introduced as an alternative method of battling but quickly took the backseat and never had any relevance worth mentioning. It makes no sense for Kido to be so widespread and having every Shinigami learn it when it's always so much, much weaker than the normal combat to the point that it might very well be a purely cosmetic ability. It didn't start out like that and it didn't have to go down like that. It embodied the potential to make the battle system of Bleach more interesting and strategy based but Kubo discarded it because he didn't know what to do with it.

And on the other hand the Vizard suffered a similar fate of completely taking the backseat after their initial arc, never gaining relevance again even though they were at the time to me the best thing that happened to Bleach since the initial Soul Society arc. But Kubo seems incapable of writing more complex scenarios so when a new group of enemies/characters shows up they just replace the previous one which starts getting ignored instead of staying a vital part of the setting. The great thing about being able to write long-running stories like Bleach & co is that you can continuously add to the cast and world and getting more and more complex over time. Good writers make everything they introduce to a show count for the rest of its duration. Even Mashima knows how to do this, but Kubo failed every time he had the chance to.

So the bottomline is that Kubo just sucks at the one thing that usually makes me love every long-runner over time. Consistent, organic growth of the cast and worldbuilding. That's why to me he's by far the worst author from any popular battle shounen. He has his talents as a mangaka, no doubt. Mainly his character designs are really nice and I probably like them more than the designs of any of the other long-runners and he also can draw nice swordfighting action scenes and has generally a good sense for style in everything he does but I honestly think as a writer he's sub-par while Mashima is average.

zumac said:


When it comes to disconnection between arcs, most long runner struggle with that problem. You praise Oda, but there are so many things in OP that felt out of nowhere, all those islands in East Blue and even some in grandline (Thriller Bark) arcs have nothing to do with others either. You get the same episodic feeling from OP as you get from Bleach. And I know the so praised foreshadowing in One Piece, but there are some in Bleach too (Ichigo being a hybrid as one example), in fact all battle shounen have them.

The Kido spells sealed aizen and there was tactical use of it during the battles against the Espadas, it was after the Arrancar arc when they became useless. I agree with the vizard stuff though.

Can't really say much about Fairy Tail, since I haven't read much of it because it was boring to me, but the amount of shit it gets can't be due to the writer making good writing decisions.

Gekko Moriah is the fifth Shichibukai to be shown. Boa Hancock is also briefly mentioned but will not be fully revealed until the Amazon Lily Arc.[10]
Amongst Moriah's zombie army is a pirate named Captain John, which so happens to be the former owner of a treasure that Buggy just so happens to be after. After collecting the treasure on Thriller Bark, Luffy begins wearing a bracelet which he gives to Buggy in the Impel Down Arc which Buggy reveals the bracelet to be a lead to Captain John's treasure.
After defeating Ryuma, Zoro gets Shusui to replace the sword he lost back in the Enies Lobby Arc. Later around the end of the Punk Hazard Arc, it was revealed by Kin'emon that Ryuma's grave was robbed and it causes him to believe Zoro is the culprit, to which he plans to take the sword back from him so it could be returned to Wano Country.
Perona having been sent to Kuraigana Island would foreshadow Zoro being sent there by Kuma the following arc, resulting in them having to get along for the next two years while he trains there.
Teach's new position as a Shichibukai is confirmed according to Kuma. In the previous arc, Ace and Teach had a battle, which Ace had lost and led Teach to become a Shichibukai, as well as the events of the Impel Down and Marineford arcs are foreshadowed after Ace has been captured following his defeat against Teach.
Both of the remaining two members of the Yonko are briefly introduced in this arc after their concept was initially brought up in the previous arc.
Kaido of the Yonko is briefly mentioned. Also, Gekko Moriah appears to have fought on equal footing against him in the past and had lost his entire crew.
Lola, captain of the Rolling Pirates captured by Moriah, is later revealed to be the daughter of Charlotte Linlin of the Big Mom Pirates.
Lola also originally believed that her mother would help the Straw Hats in the New World, but it was later proven to be completely false during the Whole Cake Island Arc as Big Mom despises Lola and wouldn't hesitate to kill her for costing her a chance at becoming the Pirate King, which Lola is unaware of. They end up becoming enemies and Nami refuses to divulge Lola's location to Big Mom to protect her friend.
However Nami's friendship with Lola would also help her befriend Lola's twin sister, Charlotte Chiffon, whom still considers Lola to be her family (other than their father). Because of the negative cruel treatment her mother gives to her after Lola left due to their resemblance, Chiffon would also side against Big Mom.
The Straw Hats (minus Luffy) begin to realize that they need to become stronger, foreshadowing the Post-War Arc.
Moriah also notes that Luffy with his current strength would lose his crew on upcoming seas.[11] Not long after that the foreshadow came true, as the Straw Hats did indeed suffer a crushing defeat and separation at Sabaody Archipelago,[12] thus beginning a training period of two years to prepare themselves for the New World.
Bartholomew Kuma reveals his Devil Fruit powers, the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi and his history with Monkey D. Dragon is briefly foreshadowed.
Zoro is severely wounded when Kuma uses his powers to remove all of Luffy's pain from his battles and give it to Zoro. Zoro is not shown with the wounds healed until after the timeskip.
Brook tells the full story behind Laboon's past, and that he is the one who left Laboon.
Brook joins the Straw Hat Pirates as Luffy wanted a musician for a long time.
Lola informs the Straw Hats the secret of the Vivre Card.
Lola also gives them a Vivre Card to her mother to help in the New World.
As it was revealed in the Whole Cake Island Arc that Big Mom does not allow for any of her children to have her Vivre Card, it is unknown to how Lola got ahold of one.
Nami would later put Big Mom's Vivre Card to use during the Whole Cake Island arc.
Lola reveals the paper Ace gave Luffy back in the Alabasta Arc is a Vivre Card as revealed by Lola. Luffy has also noticed that the Vivre Card has begun to burn.
Luffy initially refuses to to go after Ace so as to avoid interfering with his journey, as he is unaware of Ace's current predicament. However, Luffy would later learn the truth in the Amazon Lily Arc, resulting in Luffy traveling to Impel Down to save Ace.

Keiski said:


Do you have to watch the original HxH first or is the 2011 version a remake?

Keiski said:
Why does it seem like everyone hates on Shounen Anime? Particularly the big 5. Like I saw a poll on here discussing who the worst Author between Hiro Mashima, Tite Kubo, and Masashi Kishimoto. Like wtf? There not perfect, but each is enjoyable to a vast majority of people.
Discuss Below.

Imaishi said:
Don't pay attention to these.
Especially considering how shitty the criticism for battle shonen usually is. These people can't say anything besides 'plot armor', 'nakama power' or 'no one ever dies' as if that was actual criticism.

adams215 said:
You can't list one reason for why people dislike something. Especially an entire genre. When it comes to shounen anime/manga a lot of people dislike it because they outgrew the genre, the main points of shounen never appealed to them, some people just dislike what's popular and the list can go on and on. I kind of dislike posts like this because you're not really going to learn anything from it because people have different taste and you would probably be better off asking specific people for their opinions instead of trying to get one or 2 blanket reasons for something so broad from a couple of forum posts.