Deknijff said: EcchiLordMamster said: dont see why you need to say sorry for that @Deknijff well most people tend to prefer doushinji or hentai and just like the comedic or contextual use of ecchi, fewer seem to actually touch themselves like me, although i really feel many just don't admit it but don't worry you aren't alone when it comes to touching yourself I was touching myself at random 5 minutes ago because I just felt like it oh and also I prefer C.C's booty just saying while i do overall like C.C. better, Kallen is more fappable and sexier... wait... who do i actually like more? anyway, as long as i get more deliciousness from both of them this next coming season, im not complaining Darek said: @EcchiLordMamster lol I must have missed them Oi Kallen has an amazing ass. Too bad I am not alone in the room ;-; LOL that sucks, like i said before, too bad i already fapped several times yesterday and am trying to recharge... although this thread is tempting af |
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HolyDeathMacabre said: Occultic;Nine was weird as fuck in that regard. They made Ryotas's boobs very large, but they didn't used her for fanservicey scenes (the size of the boobs doesn't counts, I refer to nude and the likes). It was like if they gave her big boobs for the sake of having big boobs in the series.A good example of fanservice being awful is Occultic;Nine. It completely ruined the entire anime. |
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EcchiLordMamster said: I personally like C.C. the most of all the girls Deknijff said: while i do overall like C.C. better, Kallen is more fappable and sexier... wait... who do i actually like more?dont see why you need to say sorry for that but don't worry you aren't alone when it comes to touching yourself I was touching myself at random 5 minutes ago because I just felt like it oh and also I prefer C.C's booty just saying she also has better hair than Kallen so I automatically find her sexier  |
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Deknijff said: I personally like C.C. the most of all the girls she also has better hair than Kallen so I automatically find her sexier green hair is my favorite hair color and i do like CC better, however, im more excited for Kallen fanservice because it was just generally better lol _Lightsbane said: been times when I had to pause the anime, because my mind was busy thinking why I had been staring at someone's crotch for the past 10 seconds, or something. even my horny ass has never once paused the screen because the fanservice was just too hot... even if it is anyway, its ok to admit WHY you were actually pausing... come on... come clean man, we all do it.. the difference is some of us can actually wait and go back after the episode is over ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
EcchiGodMamsterMar 14, 2017 2:30 PM
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EcchiLordMamster said: found C.C. eating pizza hut sexier than every ass shot from Kallen honestly Deknijff said: green hair is my favorite hair color and i do like CC better, however, I'm more excited for Kallen fanservice because it was just generally better lolI personally like C.C. the most of all the girls she also has better hair than Kallen so I automatically find her sexier but that might just be me here since hair really matters to me |
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Darek said: Now all we need is a Kallen vs CC waifu war and this thread shall be complete. Instead of starting a war, why not both? |
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AntwanMantilla said: Darek said: Now all we need is a Kallen vs CC waifu war and this thread shall be complete. Instead of starting a war, why not both? you're just not making any sense at all ._. |
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Kallen and C.C are both wife material though. |
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romagia said: Pullman said: lol this part reminds me of this comicIn Kill la Kill fanservice is used excessively as part of the symbolism as themes the show was addressing, while also being there to be enjoyed by the less cerebral viewers. To me that's ideal. It's fun on the surface but it's there for a purpose and not just for pandering, although it might attract people who only care about the latter. It can satisfy both people who only care about fanservice and people who look for meaning in what they watch. And everyone in between.  What if I told you that the second image was about aqua... |
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Darek said: I like the way you think, sir. This got me inspired to look for some doujins featuring them in a thresome, got to write it down somewhere for furure reference. I'm glad that it inspired you to use it as reference. |
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| @EcchiLordMamster I missed the gifs. But 10/10 Karen does have dat ass C.C. best girl tho. |
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| Nah, it depends solely on whether or not I like the fanservice. Fanservice I like can only be an improvement to something I'm enjoying, while fanservice I don't like can only be detrimental. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| It just depends on how a viewer receives it. Perhaps, the viewer completely detests it, and therefore, the entire show is ruined for them - in that way, the fanservice has ruined the message. If the viewer, however, dismisses the fanservice, and completely forgets about it - then no, the message has not been ruined, though the fanservice didn't quite add or negate anything from this anyway. Maybe, the viewer instead interprets it as a subjectively 'good' part of the show, allowing the anime to become more accessible to the average audience, and therefore enabling the message to reach that wider pool of viewers, or possibly even promoting or enhancing the message, depending on what that message is, or what the viewer's interpretation of it is. |
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| The erotic shots in Evangelion are there for Shinji to witness. In other words, their purpose is to express Shinji's want for human intimacy, not to service the fans. I assume this is the sort of thing the Monogatari series does as well, given my own impressions without having watched it myself. If nudity or sexualization takes place within whatever mature themes are present, like in Berserk for example, it isn't fanservice. Otherwise, they should be as distant as possible so the tones don't counteract one another. Put seriousness and erotica together, and you land back at square one. |
AltoRoark said: The erotic shots in Evangelion are there for Shinji to witness. In other words, their purpose is to express Shinji's want for human intimacy, not to service the fans. I assume this is the sort of thing the Monogatari series does as well, given my own impressions without having watched it myself. If nudity or sexualization takes place within whatever mature themes are present, like in Berserk for example, it isn't fanservice. Otherwise, they should be as distant as possible so the tones don't counteract one another. Put seriousness and erotica together, and you land back at square one. What is the narrative necessity and meaning of a shot like this? http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/Soras_Teva_Gee/PenPen.jpg |
| If I think the fanservice is only there for the sake of fanservice, then I can't help but thinking that I can't take such anime seriously, no matter how strong the theme it trying to explore. |
"People who don't see that anime has changed are either wearing "glasses" or watching only a certain type (and or era) of anime" "Having a low mean score doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't enjoy anime. Rating system is not a school grading system." "Elitist is people who think he is superior than others. Not necessarily ones who insulting/critisizing your favorite anime or people who enjoy a certain type of anime" "Fanboy is people who translating "your favorite anime is shit" into "you are shit". "Being a fanboy is an indication of elitism" |
HolyDeathMacabre said: @EcchiLordMamster I missed the gifs. But 10/10 Karen does have dat ass C.C. best girl tho. yep, and the context of the scene is irrelevant, just fucking praise the cameraman |
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| I honestly didn't even bother to read what you had to say after the title because I will take fan service over plot any day. |
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15poundfish said: How sexuality is portrayed is important, if you don't care about that you probably should just watch Ecchi/hentai. There is a difference between seeing a girl in a bikini from 10 feet away and a zooming in a shot of her camel toe or bouncing boobs. I rather see more respectable camera angles in anime that doesn't rely heavily on fan service because I want to immerse myself into its premise and narrative. When you see it a mostly non ecchi anime it really takes you out of it and becomes harder to take seriously. bakemonogatari is probably one of the best harem anime there is and has some of the best back and forth dialogue in anime. The fan service is great sometimes but other times its completely out of place and really mediocre for an overall good franchise. I think the anime probably would not be nearly as successful without fan service but I think fan service should be done in better taste in some scenes. you do realize that the issue is that YOU find it distracting.... theres some of us that actually have self control.... why should the creators prioritize the people who complain about it over the people who like it, when the creators clearly like it too? |
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| Now, not every fanservice scene is equally good. I do not want to see a girl's panties when she is eaten by zombies or beaten up by evil criminals (HotD and Triage X respectively). I do not know whether the authors did it to shock the fans or to please them or both. bbBM said: What I said was only a really shitty writer would put fan service in a show that has no need for it. Fan service, by definition, is needed in any positive anime. Only broadcasting restrictions and expected age of the audience are the limits. Of course, it might be unnecessary in negative anime, like tragedy and horror. But horror can use sexuality in its own horrible ways, like Isuca did. And tragedy might use some judicious fanservice to build empathy towards a character.  Let me put it like this: if a show has a girl that is as good-looking as in the gif, that show can't be all bad. bbBM said: Most of the shows you listed in the OP aren't especially fan service heavy so our doesn't really matter. The thing about art is that it should only contain elements that benefit its purpose. Anything that contradicts or distracts from the point of the work is a strike against it. Obviously it's difficult to manage that and produce a marketable TV anime. I've never even heard of Koi Kaze so that tells me how well they succeeded there. Koi Kaze is a dead serious incestuous romance anime, with an extra doze of age difference. It doesn't have much comedy, action or fanservice. In short, there is little opportunity to refer to it, and even when there is, most people asking for romance probably aren't looking for incest. EcchiLordMamster said: Deknijff said: no not really it only hurts if the person in question doesn't like fanservice which is just their problem then I didn't care they had lots of pantie shots of Shana at the end of season 1  just like I didn't care they didn't do any pantie shots in the last episode of season 3 i marathoned Shana back in early to mid 2009... COMPLETELY FORGOT the anime had pantyshots... holy shit, then again, that was nearly 8 years ago lol For some reason, Shana manages to not have any pantyshots in normal operation and normal fighting, and only gets them in particularly intense fighting scenes, like season 1 finale. Usually, people are too involved in what is going on to give much notice to these pantyshots. Illyricus said: HolyDeathMacabre said: Occultic;Nine was weird as fuck in that regard. They made Ryotas's boobs very large, but they didn't used her for fanservicey scenes (the size of the boobs doesn't counts, I refer to nude and the likes). It was like if they gave her big boobs for the sake of having big boobs in the series.A good example of fanservice being awful is Occultic;Nine. It completely ruined the entire anime. Ryoutas is an archetypal dojikko, similar to Asahina Mikuru or the nurse from HotD. Big breasts, small brains, overall cuteness and innocence - a very powerful combination for a certain type of fan. Except Ryoutas is smarter than she seems, and she did foreshadow it since the early episodes. EcchiLordMamster said: bbBM said: And sometimes they're wrong. If a show has nine minutes of just a walk sequence, or eight episodes in a row that have the exact same plot, that's bad writing and the writer should feel like an idiot for putting that in the show. Fam service is no different. that is an issue with being extremely cliché or repetitive but theres a difference between complaining that boob grab scenes are overused and complaining that you found a butt filling the screen at a particular moment was distracting and one can definitely make a creative 8 min scene of someone walking, like if the creators know how to make the shots interesting, many of which may be fanservice and don't know of a show where every episode is the same thing to the point where you seem to describe regardless, its still freedom of expression, just because someone doesn't like it, doesn't mean its "wrong" "8 episodes of the same plot" probably refers to Endless Eight arc. Of course, this is a pacing issue, not a fanservice issue. |
EcchiLordMamster said: 15poundfish said: How sexuality is portrayed is important, if you don't care about that you probably should just watch Ecchi/hentai. There is a difference between seeing a girl in a bikini from 10 feet away and a zooming in a shot of her camel toe or bouncing boobs. I rather see more respectable camera angles in anime that doesn't rely heavily on fan service because I want to immerse myself into its premise and narrative. When you see it a mostly non ecchi anime it really takes you out of it and becomes harder to take seriously. bakemonogatari is probably one of the best harem anime there is and has some of the best back and forth dialogue in anime. The fan service is great sometimes but other times its completely out of place and really mediocre for an overall good franchise. I think the anime probably would not be nearly as successful without fan service but I think fan service should be done in better taste in some scenes. you do realize that the issue is that YOU find it distracting.... theres some of us that actually have self control.... why should the creators prioritize the people who complain about it over the people who like it, when the creators clearly like it too? There's objectively more anime that don't go all-out on fanservice but instead know how to handle it in a way that doesn't only appeal to the small subset of fans (and that's what you are, a small subset of fans) that literally have no standards when it comes to the execution of fanservice. So with your logic that would mean that's what the creators want to produce, while you want to force your standards on them against their will. I don't know where you get the idea that your no-standard-anything-goes attitude towards fanservice is the prevalent one. It's not. You are the minority, and the minority of shows appeal to you. Just look at this season, there's I think 2(!) ecchi shows that go all out, and a million of normal shows that either have no fanservice or a more balanced approach that cares about the execution. Don't make it seem like the industry exists for you and the rest of us (aka the majority) just tries to change it against their will. That's just not based on reality. If the creators really were all like you we would be getting way more than 2 ecchi shows per season. But no, extreme stances like yours will always be the minority and even among people who like fanservice many will care about the context and execution and creativity of it. You should just accept that you're a minority but I always see you implying that your standard is actually what creators care about the most and sorry but that's just delusional. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| @Pullman You're definitely hella exaggerating what I said, I've said many times that ppl are always exaggerating how much fanservice there actually is and that I don't feel as though theres any significant increase since anime of the 80s Pepole will see 2 pantyshots in an episode and claim the anime l shobed ecchi in their face, which is ridiculous, so by this criteria people have even less reason to complain And believe me when I say, there's alot more people like me than it may seem, yes we are probably not as numerous as I'd like to believe, but you always have to keep in mind the many many people who just won't admit they love excessive fanservice in order to not seem like a pervert I get pms every week from ppl who clearly only want to talk to someone who they feel won't judge them, which is the issue, most ppl who agree with me dont want to be known as the horny bastard, so it makes it seem as though theres fewer of us than there actually may be Look at my friend list? Look how many friends I have, most of those ppl dnt even talk to me, they just friend me cause of something I said or cause they think my page is hot I don't just pull the shit I say out of my ass, i know there's lots of closeted ppl thru being one of the open ones Saying that you only like fanservice used in specific ways is the safe spot response which ppl will jump on just to appease those who never stop complaining The majority of fans will feel better about themselves if they feel they maintain the status quo The biggest issue is shame, which I lack, if less ppl felt shame in liking ecchi youd see more ppl like me, but unfortunately even many ecchi fans are shameful, so they will bow down to criticism in order to sound reasonable even if they don't actually agree |
EcchiGodMamsterMar 15, 2017 7:13 AM
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15poundfish said: EcchiLordMamster said: You are kidding right? What does self-control have to with noticing something that seems out of place in non ecchi anime? Mature themes with serious plots are just way more enjoyable when they don't have done to death ecchi gags. I can still enjoy Cross Ange with its ecchi gags because its a dark but also light hearted anime you shouldn't take too seriously. The first episode has a controversial cavity search and also has attempted rape scene a few episodes after. It works for the anime because it helps us connect with an otherwise piece of shit main character and also to show that her new life is hell. The Yuri baiting also works with the narrative that living in a hellish work environment makes people want to unwind by having sex even when its done primarily for fan service. If Cross ange played all of its themes straight and its plot it would really be an awful anime.you do realize that the issue is that YOU find it distracting.... theres some of us that actually have self control.... why should the creators prioritize the people who complain about it over the people who like it, when the creators clearly like it too? What I'm saying is then why are there ppl who dont think ecchi interferes with anything? There's people who don't even like ecchi who aren't bothered by it because they don't allow it to, the issue is that you are letting it bother you An "out of context" ecchi scene doesn't have to be something that "kills the mood", the problem is your preconceived notion that sexual content can't mix with certain elements I completely lack these kinds of biases which is why I never complain about anime in general |
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| @EcchiLordMamster speaks the truth. Everyone's got their own standards, but I'd say we all like fanservice on a base level. You don't have to admit it out loud, but it goes for almost everyone. |
ImNotHere said: @EcchiLordMamster speaks the truth. Everyone's got their own standards, but I'd say we all like fanservice on a base level. You don't have to admit it out loud, but it goes for almost everyone. This sums up my thoughts rather well. I've always felt like "it needs to be mature and tied in with teh sturry" was just an attempt at intellectually justifying liking animu tiddies and little else whenever I've seen it said. Of course, I have no proof of that being the case, but my gut feeling always tends to lead me in the direction of just dismissing it as an excuse for liking stuff like that, as opposed to being a sincere stance people take on it that I can respect. An act, a cover-up, what have you. |
ManabanMar 15, 2017 8:26 AM
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| You can fap and think about deep stuff at the same time. If anything, it just makes it better. |
| NGE Makes fun of it's fanservice, At least sometimes. |
| Liking traps is gay and liking Lolis is Pedophila. Come at me bruh! |
| I think your example is bad. First off, NGE doesn't have much service. Its sexuality is directly tied to its characters, they deal with frustration and desire. As for KLK/TTGL, these shows don't explore their themes deeply. Instead, they express them in wacky ways. TTGL doesn't explore the psychology of fighting for humanity's existence and believing it, but letting the theme drive the story and make it exciting and important. These shows are more about telling an exciting story, only they use their themes to make the stories more emotionally engrossing. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
15poundfish said: so you are telling me it has nothing that made Oreimo great?an example is Koi Kaze where it plays it themes straight and easily one of the best incest anime there is it doesn't indulge in the pandering like others typical of its genre.  I mean I can appreciated a show being serious and not having pandering but I always find it weird people will complain about pandering but still when they find something they like that does have pandering they will lie and say its deep or some shit I love Elfen Lied but Im not going to say its deep I will be honest and just say yeah Im a hardcore sadist who likes gore and sex there is nothing wrong with that |
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| If they cut the action scene and go into ecchi chibi mode then maybe, but then again, it's striking another audience group :] |
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| @15poundfish I'll never understand this "distracts from the story" shit... just because the camera is angled a certain way doesn't mean the show has stopped Manaban said: ImNotHere said: @EcchiLordMamster speaks the truth. Everyone's got their own standards, but I'd say we all like fanservice on a base level. You don't have to admit it out loud, but it goes for almost everyone. This sums up my thoughts rather well. I've always felt like "it needs to be mature and tied in with teh sturry" was just an attempt at intellectually justifying liking animu tiddies and little else whenever I've seen it said. Of course, I have no proof of that being the case, but my gut feeling always tends to lead me in the direction of just dismissing it as an excuse for liking stuff like that, as opposed to being a sincere stance people take on it that I can respect. An act, a cover-up, what have you. Yea man, the whole "I only like contextual sexual fanservice" at least for some is a way to admit they like it without coming off as a horny bastard I feel as though because ecchi isnt always necessarily meant to be jerked off to, many ppl will be afraid to admit they find it fappable and enjoy being teased since to many its associated only with horny teens |
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EcchiLordMamster said: @15poundfish I'll never understand this "distracts from the story" shit... just because the camera is angled a certain way doesn't mean the show has stopped "Ahh, I'm watching this anime and there's this pretty eh story going on about a guy helping this girl with a curse and stuff. I think -"  "OH MY GOD I FORGOT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE STORY I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON HERE ANYMORE" "But wait, this is tied into the story because he has to look at her body to check for something. Everything is entirely okay and this is how sexual undertones in anime should be done! Mature and tied to the story! Never mind that it's zooming into specific parts of her body generally associated with sexual attraction instead of just showing the entirety of her body since that's what's really being examined, I'll just pretend that this isn't the case! So it's okay that I like it because it ties into the narrative and is important!" I think this is basically the gist of it ._. |
ManabanMar 15, 2017 9:30 AM
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15poundfish said: AltoRoark said: Asuka in the tv anime is introduced with a panty shot.@SuperRed That be a Rebuilds pic. I doubt it would have the same intention as that of the series. That's just a comedic way of characterizing her as the tsun-tsun she is. Besides, dem panties weren't even visible. |
| @Darek why not take it even further... |
| @Manaban Yea seriously it's definitely for many just a way to come off as less of a pervert Yea man, I have a friend who's a fan of ecchi but he couldn't finish hyakka ryouran samurai girls because he had to keep pausing during the sexy scenes.... it's like, dude, calm tf down lol Even me of all people am able to concentrate no matter how turned on I get by an anime What do ppl do during ecchi scenes? Whip out their dicks? So because you saw a girls pantsu nothing else in that scene matters anymore? Please... |
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| I suppose if you got some sudden twerking scene in a Mushishi episode it might be a case, but it is pretty much always in line with the shows art direction and spirit. There might be some intentionally provocative cases around, but usually those are quickly forgotten. |
| you all hear that? its a sound we're all used to by now  |
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EcchiLordMamster said: @15poundfish I'll never understand this "distracts from the story" shit... just because the camera is angled a certain way doesn't mean the show has stopped I find Strike Witches to be a perfect example. During the action scenes, the camera shows their underwear pants even more than usual. It doesn't prevent the scenes from being good fight scenes. In fact, I tend to pay less attention to their pants during action scenes. |
EcchiLordMamster said: @Pullman You're definitely hella exaggerating what I said, I've said many times that ppl are always exaggerating how much fanservice there actually is and that I don't feel as though theres any significant increase since anime of the 80s Pepole will see 2 pantyshots in an episode and claim the anime l shobed ecchi in their face, which is ridiculous, so by this criteria people have even less reason to complain And believe me when I say, there's alot more people like me than it may seem, yes we are probably not as numerous as I'd like to believe, but you always have to keep in mind the many many people who just won't admit they love excessive fanservice in order to not seem like a pervert I get pms every week from ppl who clearly only want to talk to someone who they feel won't judge them, which is the issue, most ppl who agree with me dont want to be known as the horny bastard, so it makes it seem as though theres fewer of us than there actually may be Look at my friend list? Look how many friends I have, most of those ppl dnt even talk to me, they just friend me cause of something I said or cause they think my page is hot I don't just pull the shit I say out of my ass, i know there's lots of closeted ppl thru being one of the open ones Saying that you only like fanservice used in specific ways is the safe spot response which ppl will jump on just to appease those who never stop complaining The majority of fans will feel better about themselves if they feel they maintain the status quo The biggest issue is shame, which I lack, if less ppl felt shame in liking ecchi youd see more ppl like me, but unfortunately even many ecchi fans are shameful, so they will bow down to criticism in order to sound reasonable even if they don't actually agree I just think it's pretty condescending to go into every discussion about the topic with the mindset that most people who don't agree that fanservice requires no standards and is automatically an improvement are just ashamed to admit it. I definitely don't believe there are many people like you, and even the people you attract are probably not as extreme as you in most cases. Don't forget that even if you think ecchi can be more or less well done and out of place or fitting depending on the show/scene/execution there will be a lot of discrepancy regarding what exactly these standards are. I'm aware that I have very high standards for ecchi and fanservice because as a standalone element I just don't like it very much while my standards for something like sports or battle shounen tropes are much lower. But even for the things I'm most biased towards I'd never see the context and execution doesn't matter at all. I don't have a one-track mind like that. Even if I always love sports tropes, I will enjoy them significantly less when executed poorly. It baffles me that someone could be completely oblivious to differences in execution no matter how much they like something. It really does. I'd generally assume people who say that are just lying to themselves and do in fact still like certain ways of executing their favorite aspects more than others but from what I can tell you're genuine, and that's a bit scary because it's just so far removed from what I think of as normal, human behaviour patterns. You definitely are one of the only people I've ever met with such an extreme stance on any aspect of anime or any other medium. Others might have much lower standards for what good ecchi constitutes than I have but I honestly don't think many people would go as far as you and say it doesn't matter at all what scene, what kind of show, what tone, how creative the execution was, whether the derived comedy was funny or not etc... You must be aware that it is an extreme position to completele deny the relevance of the context for ANY element in storytelling, not just ecchi. But you always sound like it's common sense to not care about execution, context or tone and any deviation from your stance is just a weird outlier when it's really your stance that is the weird outlier as far as I can tell. I mean if nothing matters why not just stare at sexy art? When you put sexy stuff in a narrative it automatically gets a context and the natural response is to care about that context to some degree if you specifically seek it out in the context of a narrative and not just in form of isolated designs or whatnot, not pretending there is no context. Idk, this has nothing to do with shame or even ecchi in particular as far as I'm concerned. Any narrative relies heavily on context and execution and to completely deny the relevance of these two core aspects and treat it as common sense while people who disagree with you get treated as weirdos for even entertaining the idea that standards of any sort are generally something humans have. And don't say you're not doing that because every single time someone talks about caring about the execution or context you reply like it's absurd to think like that and it's not something people could seriously believe except to hide their shame. Shame has nothing to do with having standards or valuing context. You can have no standards and not be ashamed of watching ecchi, and you can only enjoy ecchi in certain shows and still feel ashamed when you watch them. I also think it's a very exaggerated conclusion to think everyone who approaches you because you like ecchi doesn't care about anything else like you do. And even if it's true, 500 people like that accumulated over a few years still doesn't constitute very high number overall. And I promise you that the vast majority of people who say they only like ecchi when they like how it is executed are not lying or pretending. Just like most people like romance when it is executed in a way that they like, or any other aspect. Most people have standards and the ability to discern that they liked one thing more than the other based on how it was portrayed and written into the narrative. If you and some others lack that ability when it comes to ecchi that's good for you, but it's far from the norm. But what I mainly find obnoxious in a lot of your posts is how you construct this anime industry where the majority of creators think exactly like you and should ignore any criticism about ecchi because they themselves have no desire of having any standards when it comes to executing ecchi. That's simply not true. The shows that are made specifically for people like you are a vast minority and most creators in the anime industry are aware that humans in general have standards and care about the execution even if there are exceptions. You always paint this very one-sided picture of the anime industry based solely on how you would act if you were a creator. I haven't just seen it in this thread, but sentences like why should the creators prioritize the people who complain about it over the people who like it, when the creators clearly like it too? can be found in a lot of your recent posts. It is neither true that most creators think like that, just judging from the anime they create and how most of them are not unadultered ecchi fests nor is it true that people like you are anything close to the majority, not even within the part of the community that watches ecchi shows, and should therefore rightfully be prioritized by the creators. I know you attract a lot of ecchi fans but it's wishful thinking to assume that most of them don't care about context, execution and related aspects. Heck, if you dislike a single ecchi show you already can't completely not care about any of these because otherwise you'd love anything with ecchi in it, period. Even you seem to care about stuff like the designs and whether the girls appeal to you or not. I just don't buy that anyone could have literally no standards and pay no attention to context and execution. It's all just a matter of degree. You have very low standards and only care about a few select aspects of the execution, I have pretty high ones, others have even higher ones etc... There's tons of people on every level between your stance and people who avoid anything with pantyshots. You always paint this debate mostly black and white, with you on the one side and everyone else on the other side. But that 'other side' includes people who generally like ecchi, but don't like it when it's very poorly executed, it includes people who generally dislike ecchi but can enjoy it if they like the execution and it includes people who will always hate it no matter what. These are 3 very distinct groups with very different attitudes towards ecchi and different reasons for thinking like they do. But to you they are all the same because they can't ignore context and execution. I don't think that's fair at all. So many people, including me have tried in the past to explain this simple, human fact to you that context changes how we perceive things for everyone to some degree, but every time I see you arguing with someone about that topic you insist that you 'have no idea how people can think like that' and I can only explain that by you actively refusing to understand us and always projecting your values unto others because by god have there been a shitton of literal walls of text explaining in detail how us 'normies' think about anime, or storytelling in general. Context and execution make or break anything. That's why we watch stories, and not just still images of appealing designs. Because the context of the narrative matters. Especially with elements that one doesn't blindly loves. Which is another thing. You always make it seem like anyone who likes ecchi less than you (or generally just likes ecchi under certain circumstances), really doesn't like ecchi at all and/or is ashamed of it. Which is extremely obnoxious. Just because someone only enjoys it in certain contexts doesn't mean them liking it is 'fake' or they're just trying to fit in. You can enjoy things to various degrees. There is a LOT of middle ground between your stance of liking it no matter what in every context and disliking it. But you tend to ignore that. It's the 'safe' answer (as you put it) because it's derived from common sense and aligns with the nature of human perception that is always dependent on context. It's safe because for most of us it's true. I know you will probably never accept that and always think the world is full of closet 'you's who secretly think like you but act totally different because of outside pressure and not being strong enough like you to stand by their desires but eh, from time to time I'll still feel the need to try and convince you that's not the case. But it's hard since your whole argument is built to ignore evidence to the contrary because it's just people 'pretending' or 'being ashamed'. When the core of your position is that tons of people think like you and them saying they don't or acting like they don't is not acceptable evidence because society pressures them into not agreeing with you, there really is no ever to ever prove you wrong. We will never be able to read minds so as long as you think most people are secretly like you, that's how it's gonna be for you. I do think that every assumption that can't be proven wrong by default is worthless but I doubt it'll make a difference to your conviction in that regard :/. So if anything always chooses the the 'safe' argument it's you. Impossible to prove wrong, and you always just back it up by talking about the hundreds of people like you that you met already, which is again something we can't disprove. Except that based on your general tendency for projection and thinking you know better why people like or dislike what they like than themselves, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the anecdotal evidence you usually provide ('look at my 500 friends who all think like me') is just the result of you making assumptions about why they added you and what their position on the relevance of context and execution is. But again, we will never be able to tell because your whole hypothesis and all evidence for it is completely self-referential (I know those people that they think exactly like me exist in relevant quantities because I've talked to them. Noone else has though and they'd never admit it in public so don't even try finding and questioning them, I am the only one who knows their names and what they really think because they told me in secret!). I exaggerated it on purpose but basically that is what your line of reasoning boils down to. It's not a matter of having a good or bad argument in favor of your position, it's a matter of faith. How am I ever supposed to argue against that? My experience and intuition tells me it can't be true and I don't think many people who are completely oblivious to context and execution and whatnot exist. Your experience and intuition allegedly tells you the opposite. There's really no way out of this in terms of arguments. I'd be willing to just trust you when it comes to just the number of ecchi fans, but definitely not when it comes to ecchi fans who have the same stance regarding context and execution that you have. Only hard facts could ever convince me of that because of how generally absurd I find that stance. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| @Pullman I read everything you said but there is so much so I can't comment on everything just going to say well said and that here you can see Mamster having a standard of some sorts I guess |
|
Deknijff said: @Pullman I read everything you said but there is so much so I can't comment on everything Well I haven't done a direct reply to him in a while so I guess my issues piled up a bit :>. I often see posts of his where I want to chime in but usually I hold myself back because basically everything between us has been said already in the past already but idk, guess I was in the mood today. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
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