Forum Settings
Forums
New
Feb 18, 2017 4:39 AM
#1

Offline
Mar 2008
46859
Keisuke Iwata, president of Japan's anime television network AT-X, spoke at Tokyo's Digital Hollywood University last Thursday about a possible transition to using artificial intelligence (AI) in anime. With decades of experience in the industry, Iwata said, "It is fully conceivable that anime production processes may be completely replaced by AI."

Iwata has served as a producer for many hit anime such as Pokémon, Prince of Tennis, and Shaman King. He joined the AT-X parent company TV Tokyo in 1979 when it was known as Tokyo Channel 12.

The network president said he believes there is a possibility that AI could replace manual anime production. Human creativity is traditionally seen as key for many processes used to make anime. However, advances in AI technology could change the outlook for future production. Deep learning, a branch of machine learning based on algorithms that model abstract data, is one technique that AI can use to produce detailed work that seems to be the result of human labor.

Last year, several companies such as Microsoft and the Dutch bank ING collaborated on The Next Rembrandt AI project. AI analyzed Rembrandt's 346 paintings to produce artwork (pictured left) in the 17th-century painter's style.

In the future, similar technology might be used to analyze Hideaki Anno's Neon Genesis Evangelion, Shin Godzilla, and other works, for example. AI could then create a perfect "Anno-style" imitation of his art. Iwata believes that AI may come to compete with humans in the realm of creativity.

He said, "AI is already starting to encroach on the area of creation. It seems AI will be able to support things like character design, storyboards, art design, backgrounds, sound production, and color setting. Unlike AI, humans have a 'function that can forget' and can continue to evolve with use of the brain. If [you] continue to discipline your brain, you should be able to demonstrate creativity (that won't lose to AI)."

Iwata had predicted in 2009 that "the global marketplace for Japanese animation will shrink from 2010 onward." Whether or not his prediction is proving true, the anime market is evolving. Current conditions for people working in the industry will continue to play a role in that process.

The anime industry often comes under fire for low wages, poor working conditions, and work hours beyond legal limits for animators. The Japan Animation Creators Association (JAniCA) published a report in 2015 that stated animators earned US$28,000 on average in Japan in 2013. The study also reported that entry-level animators earned US$9,200 per year in Japan. If work conditions remain unsatisfactory for Japanese animators, AI could replace jobs to get around the anime industry's apparent inability to provide for human workers.

On the other hand, Studio Ghibli co-founder Hayao Miyazaki described a certain CG animation produced by AI last year as "an insult to life itself." Miyazaki appeared in a special on November 13 about his upcoming CG animation film Kemushi no Boro. In the television special, a CGI team at Dwango Artificial Intelligence Laboratory gave a presentation about an experiment with an animation program that learns via AI. A human model was used, and the program learned to make it move forward at a more rapid rate while ignoring concepts like 'pain.' People like Miyazaki might consider the result an unsettling, zombie-like creature. With Miyazaki no longer producing feature-length anime, it remains to be seen how the industry will respond to his views in the near future.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-02-16/at-x-president-ai-may-replace-humans-in-anime-production/.112255

As if they arent already paid too low now they could be fully replaced to maximize profits. Shit tons of shit tier anime devoid of any humanity.
This topic has been locked and is no longer available for discussion.
Feb 18, 2017 4:40 AM
#2

Offline
Mar 2014
21290
What a bunch of dickbags

Feels good not to support this industry
Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite
Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained
Feb 18, 2017 4:43 AM
#3
Offline
Mar 2011
25073
traed said:
Keisuke Iwata, president of Japan's anime television network AT-X, spoke at Tokyo's Digital Hollywood University last Thursday about a possible transition to using artificial intelligence (AI) in anime. With decades of experience in the industry, Iwata said, "It is fully conceivable that anime production processes may be completely replaced by AI."

Iwata has served as a producer for many hit anime such as Pokémon, Prince of Tennis, and Shaman King. He joined the AT-X parent company TV Tokyo in 1979 when it was known as Tokyo Channel 12.

The network president said he believes there is a possibility that AI could replace manual anime production. Human creativity is traditionally seen as key for many processes used to make anime. However, advances in AI technology could change the outlook for future production. Deep learning, a branch of machine learning based on algorithms that model abstract data, is one technique that AI can use to produce detailed work that seems to be the result of human labor.

Last year, several companies such as Microsoft and the Dutch bank ING collaborated on The Next Rembrandt AI project. AI analyzed Rembrandt's 346 paintings to produce artwork (pictured left) in the 17th-century painter's style.

In the future, similar technology might be used to analyze Hideaki Anno's Neon Genesis Evangelion, Shin Godzilla, and other works, for example. AI could then create a perfect "Anno-style" imitation of his art. Iwata believes that AI may come to compete with humans in the realm of creativity.

He said, "AI is already starting to encroach on the area of creation. It seems AI will be able to support things like character design, storyboards, art design, backgrounds, sound production, and color setting. Unlike AI, humans have a 'function that can forget' and can continue to evolve with use of the brain. If [you] continue to discipline your brain, you should be able to demonstrate creativity (that won't lose to AI)."

Iwata had predicted in 2009 that "the global marketplace for Japanese animation will shrink from 2010 onward." Whether or not his prediction is proving true, the anime market is evolving. Current conditions for people working in the industry will continue to play a role in that process.

The anime industry often comes under fire for low wages, poor working conditions, and work hours beyond legal limits for animators. The Japan Animation Creators Association (JAniCA) published a report in 2015 that stated animators earned US$28,000 on average in Japan in 2013. The study also reported that entry-level animators earned US$9,200 per year in Japan. If work conditions remain unsatisfactory for Japanese animators, AI could replace jobs to get around the anime industry's apparent inability to provide for human workers.

On the other hand, Studio Ghibli co-founder Hayao Miyazaki described a certain CG animation produced by AI last year as "an insult to life itself." Miyazaki appeared in a special on November 13 about his upcoming CG animation film Kemushi no Boro. In the television special, a CGI team at Dwango Artificial Intelligence Laboratory gave a presentation about an experiment with an animation program that learns via AI. A human model was used, and the program learned to make it move forward at a more rapid rate while ignoring concepts like 'pain.' People like Miyazaki might consider the result an unsettling, zombie-like creature. With Miyazaki no longer producing feature-length anime, it remains to be seen how the industry will respond to his views in the near future.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-02-16/at-x-president-ai-may-replace-humans-in-anime-production/.112255

As if they arent already paid too low now they could be fully replaced to maximize profits. Shit tons of shit tier anime devoid of any humanity.



the J.A.A will have somthign tosay about this
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
Feb 18, 2017 4:48 AM
#4
Offline
Apr 2013
12542
Righttttttttttttttttttt

Maybe another 50 years Mr Iwata cause people seriously overestimating AI capabilities just like with human space colonisation program back in the 1970s.
Feb 18, 2017 4:52 AM
#5

Offline
Mar 2008
46859
worldeditor11 said:
Righttttttttttttttttttt

Maybe another 50 years Mr Iwata cause people seriously overestimating AI capabilities just like with human space colonisation program back in the 1970s.

Key framers probably would be used still at first. Such tech already exists. It just fills in gaps.
Feb 18, 2017 4:54 AM
#6

Offline
Jan 2013
14160
Okay. Do anything you want just not CGI please.
Feb 18, 2017 2:20 PM
#7

Offline
Jul 2015
5421
only if loks gud
am doubt ai can match skilld artists draw & style

how wold ai even know what draw?
youd ned program new algorithm every time if ur change draw
am thinken:

1. maybe company provide dozens or more templats to ai -different characters & objects & location then ai learn how draw dis in future

2. is pure 3d cgi since ai wold work better w/ dis.
Feb 18, 2017 2:27 PM
#8

Offline
Jun 2012
12244
Anime can't get any worse. I say give robots a chance.
Feb 18, 2017 2:41 PM
#9

Offline
Nov 2008
27787
999 said:
Anime can't get any worse. I say give robots a chance.


Robots will be the end of anime. Anime needs love and passion to even be decent.

Salvatia said:
only if loks gud
am doubt ai can match skilld artists draw & style

how wold ai even know what draw?
youd ned program new algorithm every time if ur change draw
am thinken:

1. maybe company provide dozens or more templats to ai -different characters & objects & location then ai learn how draw dis in future

2. is pure 3d cgi since ai wold work better w/ dis.


All full 3DCG anime future will be a nightmare.


Feb 18, 2017 2:48 PM

Offline
Oct 2015
1476
Honestly, i think AI shouldnt touch anime, or art in general. Art is supposed to be an expression of the human soul right? Well AI dont have souls at all.
The peasant is bound by the king. The king is bound by the peasants and their kingdom. But the Viking is bound to nothing but themselves.


Feb 18, 2017 2:54 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
101
Mhm. Weird. I was sure developing asian countries likes Thailand and Vietnam were going to replace japanese animators, since they are dirt cheap...
Feb 18, 2017 2:57 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
101
King_O_Cum said:
Honestly, i think AI shouldnt touch anime, or art in general. Art is supposed to be an expression of the human soul right? Well AI dont have souls at all.


Very outdated definition of art, we had a huge uprising of Minimalism in the 60s+
meaning legitimate distancing from abstract art and generally expressionism, basically minimalism was about taking things face value and not reading deepness in it.

Look up Andy Warhol for example. Minimalism was and is still popular.
Or maybe an example: Remember when there are those weird art exhibition where there was only a block of stone in the middle of the room? Or these massproduced posters worth 10 bucks, but in an exhibition worth 10 grand? These are works of minimalism
Feb 18, 2017 3:03 PM

Offline
Feb 2015
6845
It'll be interesting to see what comes of it, but it'll probably take a few decades for it to become practical. AI is still in too early of a stage to do these kind of things.
Feb 18, 2017 3:14 PM

Offline
Oct 2015
1476
Tiyelle said:
King_O_Cum said:
Honestly, i think AI shouldnt touch anime, or art in general. Art is supposed to be an expression of the human soul right? Well AI dont have souls at all.


Very outdated definition of art, we had a huge uprising of Minimalism in the 60s+
meaning legitimate distancing from abstract art and generally expressionism, basically minimalism was about taking things face value and not reading deepness in it.

Look up Andy Warhol for example. Minimalism was and is still popular.
Or maybe an example: Remember when there are those weird art exhibition where there was only a block of stone in the middle of the room? Or these massproduced posters worth 10 bucks, but in an exhibition worth 10 grand? These are works of minimalism

Ok, how about this as the definition of art?
"The Purposeful Rearrangement of Elements to Evoke a Response".

Andy Warhol? You mean the guy who made this?
The peasant is bound by the king. The king is bound by the peasants and their kingdom. But the Viking is bound to nothing but themselves.


Feb 18, 2017 3:21 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
27787
King_O_Cum said:
Honestly, i think AI shouldnt touch anime, or art in general. Art is supposed to be an expression of the human soul right? Well AI dont have souls at all.


They don't have a heart either so they can't feel. You need a heart to love and what's a staple of anime, romance. I'd rather have any animal (who all have hearts and souls) making anime than AI.


Feb 18, 2017 3:21 PM

Offline
Dec 2016
655
Consumables can be made through machines.

Art should be made by humans.

That's my take on things. The question is if you want anime (or some part of it) to be consumable or art (or both of it, but I think you get what I mean).
Feb 18, 2017 3:23 PM

Offline
Jan 2009
92410
in-betweening animator jobs are about to be extinct

but full automation of anime production is not yet possible with todays AI technology

Feb 18, 2017 3:25 PM

Offline
Oct 2015
1476
Hoppy said:
King_O_Cum said:
Honestly, i think AI shouldnt touch anime, or art in general. Art is supposed to be an expression of the human soul right? Well AI dont have souls at all.


They don't have a heart either so they can't feel. You need a heart to love and what's a staple of anime, romance. I'd rather have any animal (who all have hearts and souls) making anime than AI.

Exactly, with stuff like shounens you need excitement, and the desire for adventure. AI dont have that. How can you express something you cant feel? And besides, dont Ai follow a specific Algorithym? If anything, having AI make art will just make it even more repetitive.
The peasant is bound by the king. The king is bound by the peasants and their kingdom. But the Viking is bound to nothing but themselves.


Feb 18, 2017 3:31 PM

Offline
Dec 2016
655
I think there needs to be a line in what AI & technology should do for humanity. I love tech, but stuff like this kinda makes me worried how big it will become.
Feb 18, 2017 3:34 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
101
King_O_Cum said:

Ok, how about this as the definition of art?
"The Purposeful Rearrangement of Elements to Evoke a Response".

Andy Warhol? You mean the guy who made this?


Thats actually a really nice definition ^^

Yesexactly ^^ the print was a mass print, not even entirely printed by him but assistents xD Still the price for that print was enormous, oh how I love art x.x
Feb 18, 2017 3:40 PM

Offline
Oct 2015
1476
Tiyelle said:
King_O_Cum said:

Ok, how about this as the definition of art?
"The Purposeful Rearrangement of Elements to Evoke a Response".

Andy Warhol? You mean the guy who made this?


Thats actually a really nice definition ^^

Yesexactly ^^ the print was a mass print, not even entirely printed by him but assistents xD Still the price for that print was enormous, oh how I love art x.x

Thanks, i learned that from my college professor, he even dared everyone in class to make up a better definition of art. That definition he give pretty much encomposes every art from you can think of.

Well, i see the point he's trying to make with that kind of art, but i dont really like it. I prefer art with more...spirit i guess. Its really funny though that he got rich just by painting a soup can tho.
The peasant is bound by the king. The king is bound by the peasants and their kingdom. But the Viking is bound to nothing but themselves.


Feb 18, 2017 3:45 PM

Offline
Dec 2016
655
I don't want to be mean to that Iwata guy, haven't read much about him, but Pokemon often had lazy animation if I remember correctly. Also watched Shaman King, but it has been to long to remember how good it was in terms of animation. But maybe it has nothing to do with him, don't want to jump to conclusions.

Just want to say that this viewpoint could lead to boring & repetitive animation.
Feb 18, 2017 3:59 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
101
King_O_Cum said:
Tiyelle said:


Thats actually a really nice definition ^^

Yesexactly ^^ the print was a mass print, not even entirely printed by him but assistents xD Still the price for that print was enormous, oh how I love art x.x

Thanks, i learned that from my college professor, he even dared everyone in class to make up a better definition of art. That definition he give pretty much encomposes every art from you can think of.

Well, i see the point he's trying to make with that kind of art, but i dont really like it. I prefer art with more...spirit i guess. Its really funny though that he got rich just by painting a soup can tho.


Yes I am the same, still stuck in the age where talent, meta and effort make the best artists, rather than meta alone!



BUT, back to the topic xD
While it is disheartening to see AI be "more creative" than us, it is nothing more than an object, that has learned and copied human style. I think thats not too different from SOME people, that copy without true intent on owning their own style.

Now to Anime specifically:
On another note I think its even better to have AI at least animate mundane animation like background movement or even key character movement for "casual" scenes
TiyelleFeb 18, 2017 4:03 PM
Feb 18, 2017 4:04 PM

Offline
Dec 2016
655
But such a thing wouldn't work for manga right? I could never imagine an AI copying some of the unique & detailed artstyles of various artists.
Feb 18, 2017 5:11 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
27787
BlueBlack37 said:
But such a thing wouldn't work for manga right? I could never imagine an AI copying some of the unique & detailed artstyles of various artists.


They'll be taking over manga eventually, AI must not be able to make anime, manga, or any other form of art that requires a heart and soul.


Feb 18, 2017 5:44 PM

Offline
Mar 2008
46859
Tiyelle said:
Mhm. Weird. I was sure developing asian countries likes Thailand and Vietnam were going to replace japanese animators, since they are dirt cheap...

They already use them sometimes I think but it's still a limited supply. If or as conditions in those countries improve the less profitable exploitation they can make
Feb 18, 2017 8:12 PM

Offline
Sep 2013
22818
Business normalfags who don't even like anime will ruin it, the ultimate loss.
This tech could already be used in couple of years if they combine it with the animators but no, gotta get all the money.


Use them to make the backgrounds and demons/monsters better quality.
It would be cool if this is used on Overlord.
Feb 18, 2017 11:06 PM

Offline
Apr 2012
34062
Animation by ai sounds uninspiring as fuck

Then again anime wasn't that inspiring to begin with l0l

Feb 18, 2017 11:34 PM

Offline
Jun 2014
632
In theory of course it would be possible, but is it really creativity? Even in the case of the Rembrandt the AI was taking patterns from the existing paintings and applying the most common patterns found and in the end was successful in creating a painting that is a fairly good representation of his style.

That's not really creativity as I would define it though and taking what is basically a formulaic approach would lead to even more stagnation in anime than what exists currently.
This topic has been locked and is no longer available for discussion.

More topics from this board

Sticky: » The Current Events Board Will Be Closed on Friday JST ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Luna - Aug 2, 2021

272 by traed »»
Aug 5, 2021 5:56 PM

» Third shot of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine offers big increase in antibody levels: study ( 1 2 )

Desolated - Jul 30, 2021

50 by Desolated »»
Aug 5, 2021 3:24 PM

» Western vaccine producers engage in shameless profiteering while poorer countries are supplied mainly by China.

Desolated - Aug 5, 2021

1 by Bourmegar »»
Aug 5, 2021 3:23 PM

» NLRB officer says Amazon violated US labor law

Desolated - Aug 3, 2021

17 by kitsune0 »»
Aug 5, 2021 1:41 PM

» China Backs Cuba in Saying US Should Apply Sanctions To Itself

Desolated - Aug 5, 2021

10 by Desolated »»
Aug 5, 2021 1:36 PM
It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login