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Why do a lot of people who only watch newer anime seem hate on the fans of old school anime?

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Jan 12, 2017 4:44 AM

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Mar 2008
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"Oh god, you're so incoherent that any attempt to respond requires me to decipher each section of your post," precisely!

Soo anything can be a problem and you agree with it but the popular ones are the most "important" ones you say and if in one community people should reach that even how stupid it is?Naaah not my cup of tea.Well I ahve more "important" problems than "Why do a lot of people who only watch newer anime seem hate on the fans of old school anime?"

"it's not my cup of tea and I have a life of problems, so there is no problem!"



I still dont know why this is a problem to begin with.Can't we just let people watch what they want?Or should we bash them because they don't like to watch "Anime X?"Maybe you like to watch every type of anime but that one guy is not.Should we kill him?

So on the one-hand, people can like what they like and that's a paramount sanctity. On the other-hand it doesn't matter why people like things. It doesn't matter why people dislike things. It doesn't matter why people disagree on these things. Because it doesn't matter, people are isolated systems of purely refined and unadulterated taste!


There is no "escapism" here because there is nothing to escape to begin with.The whole anime community based on opinions.Some rate Ginatama 1/10 just for "fun" or their fav anime is lower others rate 10/10 because again they think it is funny.Sorry but I can't see any seriousness in this matter too.

1/10, almost on point.

Well yes I like to watch when someone talks about best anime is Anime X and argue about it with others.I really like to watch this and will always post a meme too.Sometimes even I join to make some irony.

At the end to me anime is just for entertainment and no I refuse to argue someone about anime.But if you really like it then go on.

It's alright, I can see there's little use in surmounting your great wall of oblivion.
Jan 12, 2017 4:50 AM

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Mar 2009
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VAMPIRE HUNTER D
My friend with whom I watch anime, loves this one. He had watched it way back when, before I got him into anime, and still speaks fondly of it.
Now when I try to get him to watch Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Trigun or almost any other anime older than 10 years, he won't even give it a chance because "it looks like shit".
But what about Vampire Hunter D? I wonder if he hadn't watched it, and I proposed it to him now, what would he say? Probably no, because "it looks like shit".
Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature!
Jan 12, 2017 4:58 AM

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Feb 2010
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jejehartadi said:
Pullman said:


Yeah imo it's worse since it's not based on anything. I'd much rather talk to someone who hates stuff they watched and didn't like than someone who hates stuff they haven't watched and never will. Someone bashing a modern anime based on having watched it at least gives the courtesy to others to make them able to defend that anime. How do I defend my favorites against being hated on for no tangible reason, just because they are a bit older? It's infinitely more frustrating than dealing with people who just legitimately don't enjoyed a show and base their criticism on that.


haha, relax. what I mean by avoiding is, not watching and not giving any hate or opinion about said anime. not the 'hating without watching'. an easy example is currently I don't want to watch bleach because it has lots of episodes and I'm not in the mood to watch long running series. not watching bleach in this case doesn't mean I hate bleach right? I mean this kind of avoiding. I think there are a lot of people not wanting to watch certain old series just because they're not in the mood of watching, doesn't mean they absolutely hate or they will never watch them.

For old anime, I've only watched a few, some old mecha (macross n gundam), kids anime n some battle shonen (yu yu hakusho, dragon ball, samurai x). I think they're good, I especially apreciate hand drawn mecha. I haven't watched other genre so I can't really give my opinion about which era is better. Still, I'd like to say that old and new anime are good.


Don't worry, I am relaxed.

When you avoid something because of objective reasons like it's length that's just avoiding, but if you avoid stuff based on prejudices that, many times, frankly aren't true, I do see it as unfair hating. The difference being that it's more hating on a whole period and not hating on individual shows. People will see the latter as more toxic but to me it isn't toxic when you watch a show, dislike it, and voice your complaints. And I think a lot of people would not see it as toxic either, but as soon as 'I prefer older anime' is part of someone's opinion people suddenly view it as toxic and reduce their whole preference to a meme, which I find unfair as well.

I guess one way you could put it is that I think one has to earn the right to disrespect and dislike stuff. It's much less ignorant to dislike something after you've spend time on it, thought about it, analyzed it and whatnot. If I've watched a show I have a right to voice my opinion on it no matter how negative it is. But nobody has a right to make false statements about something they have no idea about as far as I'm concerned. But somehow the former is seen as toxic and the latter as normal by most people in this thread.

And most of the time statements about avoiding old anime at all costs do come with pseudo-arguments like 'everything old is ugly' or 'art improves over time' (yeah right that's why modern art is so much more intricate than say the Mona Lisa) so they aren't just preferences, they are judgments not based on facts. Trust me, if people weren't so insistent on making random preferences for anything after 2xxx seem like the reasonable, objectively understandable thing to do I wouldn't be so salty. But 9 out of 10 times people will hide behind 'subjectivity' and 'preference' on defense while implicitly insulting old anime and by extension their fans. Everytime someone says 'nothing old please because I care for visuals' I feel like they're taking a stab at me because I probably care more for visuals than they do and I love many old anime exactly for that reason.

The same goes for artstyles. Artstyles vary a lot independent of when the anime was produced, pretending that every old anime has the same 'old' artstyle is just plain wrong. Artstyle is a symptom of an individual show, not something that's set in stone for whole decades.

Basically if people wouldn't constantly attach bullshit to their preferences and treated me like a delusional oldfag whenever I try to explain to them how wrong their prejudices are from an objective perspective (its a fact that most 80s and 90s movies with a decent budget have much better animation than 95% of modern TV Series, for example) I wouldn't get so salty about the new=better hivemind. But you almost always see these preferences being voiced on the cost of old anime being treated like garbage, sometimes more sometimes less directly.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 4:59 AM

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@Ckan

No actaully I was surprised that you wrote a whole essay.
"you're so incoherent that any attempt to respond requires me to decipher each section of your post"

Well actually that was my purpose.Talk about some different points in you essay.

Also it is really funny that in "every section" you missed my point too.But I will rate 5/7 because of memes.

Of course if you like or dont like something you should able to explain it.But I can't see the part where this person A is not able to do it too.Referring to OP.

Gintama part was about how this anime community works when it comes to opinions.I was saying that since people like this exist this "I don't like the old anime" problem(if you insist to call it like that) is expected.

Oh you like the wall?I build it based on Deadlands.

Small ES:O reference.




Yes yes then let's talk about why you rated God Eater as 5 for example.Why?I don't know.We are doing the same thing basically.

sasalxJan 12, 2017 5:03 AM
Jan 12, 2017 5:00 AM

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Let me put it like this; the common, hive-minded individual, fears the process of aging. Old age is regularly connected to disease, or death. Humans have been trying their darndest to halt the process of naturally aging — with medication, cosmetic surgery, even cryogenics, etc. It is therefore very "natural" to defy anything of old age and handle it with less decency, and in turn people praise and worship the new without looking back. A funny little thing; have you ever noticed how few individuals are interested in history class, in say... highschool? People believe in a saying "let the past be the past", and focus only on their present and future endeavors. It is therefore very regularly that you see a phenomenon of "new attacking old", not the other way around.

» "Mercy is for losers..." «

⍏⍏⍏⍏⍏

inspector @ MAL's anime watching challenge
Jan 12, 2017 5:04 AM

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Uhh I don't think I ever had that problem nor have I heard of it. Maybe the other way around but even that is a stretch.
Jan 12, 2017 5:05 AM

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jejehartadi said:
Still, I'd like to say that old and new anime are good.

That's literally the point Pullman is defending, against "anything pre 2000 is ugly" wich is a stance I hear often here.
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Jan 12, 2017 5:12 AM

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I don't know what anime world have you been living people but those who prefer new anime, new stuff, new style or anything with a "new" label, can be as harsh and aggressive as those who prefer old stuff and old styles and bash the modern anime industry.

People on YT or anywhere else can't just claim they prefer old animes and old styles without being called "nostalgia fags", "hipsters", "tasteless" people and being invited to "take the nostalgia goggles off so you can see that new = better".

If these aren't attacks then I don't know what they are.
Jan 12, 2017 5:21 AM

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Clebardman said:
jejehartadi said:
Still, I'd like to say that old and new anime are good.

That's literally the point Pullman is defending, against "anything pre 2000 is ugly" wich is a stance I hear often here.

Well, you can see on his response when he quoted me that he mistook my word 'avoiding' in a negative way, so I need ti tell him that I have the same opinion on old and new.
Jan 12, 2017 5:44 AM

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JustALEX said:
WHAT?!

Isn't it "Old School" anime fans that are CONSTANTLY bitching about how all new anime sucks?

How animation and plot was better in the 80s and 90s?

I swear to god.....these people are ALWAYS BITCHING!


The funny thing is....I'm a "90s kid".

I grew up watching Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Cardcaptors, and other 90s shows.

And guess what?!

I like today's anime better!


Paul said:
I honestly rarely see any new viewers intentionally bash on old shows. They say it doesn't interest them or they're not interested in its visuals but that's not bashing. Hell, if anything, the people who bash on new anime while only constantly only praising older ones are far more notable during the time I've been on MAL.


All three of us join MAL since year 2008. And from my long years observation here in MAL, just like both of you,it certainly is the other way around where old anime fans hating new anime far more common. I got no idea how does people get the idea modern day anime fans hating old anime. New anime fans only says they are not interested in watching old anime. That is certainly not the same as hating. Yes,I'm a 90s kid too.
ZapredonJan 12, 2017 10:55 AM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion.

http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30

It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist.
Jan 12, 2017 5:48 AM

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Is the OP from another dimension?... because I am pretty sure its the other way around.
Jan 12, 2017 5:54 AM

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Pullman said:
It's sad how many people are ignorant enough to believe, really believe, that it's the other way round. I guess being pampered in a community where 90% are a new=better hivemind makes people unable to see reality in an unbiased way. Because they share that mindset they see every attack on older anime as not an attack, but a reasonable preference, while the other way around it's always a biased attack that goes against common sense and never just a harmless preference. How to selective perception 101.


How is it a biased perspective when some people based their opinions here on actual experience? Considering you've been around here in MAL three years more than I have, I'm quite sure you've already bore witness to such threads regarding how the whole anime industry is sinking into an abyss of mediocrity with their money-grabbing tactics and studios wasting their talents in producing animation of below average quality just to pander to a market where they will supposedly gain huge profits. Because for someone like me who has only been here since 2013 I sure have seen these kind of topics being discussed quite often and even actively during the time when ecchi and harem were still rampant. It's barely happening nowadays, because despite what some people say there's actually more variety now in the type of anime being released, but you can't deny the fact that it did happen quite a lot in the past. The common target of such attacks were usually ecchi, harem, highschool setting in general and moe anime. While those type of shows could indeed range from apalling to average, which I'm honestly not quite sure since I have only seen a few of them but judging from the comments in the past it's safe to assume that it was the general concencus of such threads, the fans of those kind of anime don't go out of their way to bash on older anime because they just couldn't care less. They just avoid it and move on with their lives because either the art or animation is just not their cup of tea, either they think it was outdated which is argueable since some old anime's animation are far more fluid and consistent than what we currently have now or they're just pampered too much by modern animation in which case is usually based upon prettier colors due to technological advancement and occasional sakuga animation during relevant events such as fight scenes, while the opposing party would always go out of their way to come up with threads degrading the quality of such works due to appealing to an audience they deem a lower lifeform than them or in MAL's language - those with shit taste in anime which will obviously trigger the modern fans who genuinely love those genres.

What you say about how most of those threads are usually created by modern anime fans who have only seen less than a hundred anime and thought that 2008-2010 was an old age for anime also holds some truth in it since I too have seen such threads being made by those type of people. However those people are just being pretentious by implying that those times weren't plagued by those particular genres they so despise and complain about except maybe moe since if memory serves me right it was only in abundance after K-On became a success. Honestly though, despite agreeing for the most part with what you said I still firmly believe that they weren't the majority of people who create those threads based on MY experience here in MAL since 2013. Most of the time, critically-acclaimed classics like Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell or Neon Genesis Evangelion are usually the ones that are being placed in a pedestal labeled as the golden age of anime and are the main targets of comparisons between old anime and new anime. Occasionally, they might just be obnoxious internet trolls trying to rile up a certain fanbase for the hilarity of it but there are still those newcomers to the community but still prefer older anime since this thread is not about those older anime fans who have watched anime since the 1980-1990s but the fans of old anime as a whole including new faces with vintage taste . You can say we're ignorant of the points you mentioned about how these oldschool anime fans complaining about new anime are just a minority in the fandom but that's exactly why we have these thoughts. Because that's what we see in the forums and that's the only evidence we need to support our stance. It's not being biased if you're only shown one side of the story. In most cases, oldschool people would often initiate the conflict with their opinions regarding new anime and the reactions of modern fans is just retaliation on their part since people here in MAL are so passionate about their favorite animu. Once the modern people cry out over the matter then the old anime watchers who were previously just laying silent would back up the vocal individual because of the ruckus that the modern fans are creating. It's just a game of who gets baited and would quickly devolve to flame wars among why this generation of anime is pure and utter shit and whatnot. It might be an unfair judgment on the modern fans' side since most of them have not really watched old anime but it still does not change the fact that the uproar was caused by old anime watchers. Ignorance is not an attack towards older anime. Ignoring is just fundamentally different from hating. It's just a matter of preference. Oldschool people might have a preference for pre-2000 anime but if you settle within those grounds then it's just a simple preference or what you would describe as "harmless". Actively bashing on modern anime however because it does not align with your taste or because it just couldn't capture the charm that lured you to old anime or even worse because they appeal to what you consider degenerates doing such revolting acts such as masturbating to loli hentai and buying dakimakuras claiming it as their waifu is what you call hating and that's why people perceive the situation as being the other way around because it's usually those kind of stuff that we see here in MAL instead of modern fans expressing hatred towards old anime which wouldn't make sense for them to do so since you can't possibly hate on something you have not personally experienced. If you do, you're the bottom of the barrel. The worst of the worst.

In summary of what I said, modern fans tend to be generally passive towards old anime. Rather than outright hating it, they just don't really care while the old anime watchers would often be very vocal of their disdain for modern anime which in turn would start this war between the two factions.
Dull_LullJan 12, 2017 10:05 AM
Jan 12, 2017 6:04 AM

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The subject of this thread is "why newer anime fans seems to hate on the fans of old school anime". It's not about hatred toward older anime, it's hatred toward older anime fans. You see, "nostalgia goggles" tend to use as an insult toward older anime fans.

Why discussion here usually goes to anywhere? Ckckckck
Kurniawan_KtrJan 12, 2017 6:16 AM
"People who don't see that anime has changed are either wearing "glasses" or watching only a certain type (and or era) of anime"
"Having a low mean score doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't enjoy anime. Rating system is not a school grading system."
"Elitist is people who think he is superior than others. Not necessarily ones who insulting/critisizing your favorite anime or people who enjoy a certain type of anime"
"Fanboy is people who translating "your favorite anime is shit" into "you are shit".
"Being a fanboy is an indication of elitism"
Jan 12, 2017 6:21 AM

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I've always wondered this myself. I think it has a lot to do with the majority of regular posters here being young, and only liking newer stuff. These people tend to gang up on old school fans and ridicule them because their tastes are different. Many young people try to say it's the "Other way around," but they don't realize how hurtful they are sometimes towards old school fans.

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of newer Anime, although I do try to watch a little bit of it. But it's difficult to relate to kids on a forum whom you have next to nothing in common with, and that's why many old school fans stick to clubs, and ignore the main part of the forum. I've done this from time to time, but I keep coming back and posting here for some reason.

Jan 12, 2017 6:22 AM
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Pullman said:
EcchiLordMamster said:
@Jonouchi-Katsuya

i almost never see that lol... always this:

MODERN ANIME SUCKS

ANIME HAS GOTTEN WORSE

ALL ANIME IS NOW IS FANSERVICE

ITS ALL GENERIC PANDERING TRASH

DEEP STORY IS ALL THAT MATTERS

NEWER ANIME IS FOR TEENAGERS

STOP CATERING TO FAT BASEMENT NECKBEARDS

YOU'RE A LOSER FOR HAVING A WAIFU PILLOW

YOU'LL NEVER GET A GIRL

I MISS WHEN ANIME WAS LIKE THIS

THERE WASN'T AS MUCH ECCHI IN THE PAST

THIS SEASON IS SHIT, IM ONLY WATCHING ONE SHOW

THIS YEAR SUCKS, I ONLY LIKED 4 SHOWS



to quote "The King and I"

"etcetera, etcetera, etcetera"



you NEVER see people say this shit about fans of 80s and 90s anime, most ppl who don't watch older anime simply don't like the art and animation. and when they do attack "nostalgia fags" its almost always due to these kinds of quotes or again just the way it looks


anyway, being born in 89, im fine with all of it and don't think anime has/had a "best era"


As I said earlier, if you pay attention to who makes these statements you'll see that the vast majority doesn't come from people who prefer pre-2000 stuff. It's people who got into anime 3 years ago, now burn out and project their issues onto whatever the most recent seasons were. But much more often than not the people complaining about anime going downhill, the most recent season sucking ass and, pandering, fanservice and catering to neckbeards etc... will just be your regular modern anime fan who doesn't touch anything from before 2000 or 2005. It's hard to see but 'anime has gone downhill' usually doesn't mean 'since the 80s or 90s' but 'since I first got into anime in 2012 and everything was still new and exciting'.

Once you realize that it's only a small percentage of the people who rant about modern seasons who are actually 'oldfags' and start paying attention to the users who create these threads it becomes much harder to pin all the blame on them.


you know the funniest thing about this response is that i used to say this all the time... i guess i had forgotten since i've only noticed ONE OR TWO "anime is getting worse" threads in the last few months

i used to mention how it was ALMOST ALWAYS someone with less than 100 completions who joined the previous 2 years xD

when i think about that, you're right, i can only recall ONE person who had like 500+ who made a thread like that

i mean, its true, if you've seen 500+ anime from various eras, you should know theres not some huge difference between then and now
Jan 12, 2017 7:20 AM

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It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences. Personally it's the sort of fan I dislike the most, even more than casual watchers who claim to be "otaku".
"Now, come here. So long as we hold hands, we won't be separated."
Jan 12, 2017 7:35 AM

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azoth212 said:
It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences.


Try to say also for example that you liked more the original Hunter x Hunter with it's gritty cel-animation over the more shinier HD modern remake. A charming welcome of this comment by the remake supporters is not precisely what you are going to find.

I'm not deying that what you mention it's true, I've seen it a lot, but the fact that modern anime supporters can sometimes be as harsh as the old school ones can't be denied either.
Jan 12, 2017 8:08 AM

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FreshPrinceofMAL said:
I'm not necessarily referring to MAL but in general it seems like your "modern" anime fan tends to hate on the OG fans and say that they only like the older anime for nostalgia and that new anime is objectively better than the old stuff.


You bring up so many things.
'Why do a lot of people who only watch newer anime seem hate on the fans of old school anime?' It's some kind of alarming perspective as if it's people fault, Idk, some people want to have fun and pay zero mind while others are caught up in recency and see new animes as currency for opinions.
Idk what OG fans are.
Nostalgia is essentially fake history and animes are drenched in that regardless of age. References to other animes abound for waves or generic stuff with "important" messages fans soldier on to tell people what to watch like they belonged to some family that never was.
FondenteJan 12, 2017 8:14 AM
Jan 12, 2017 8:31 AM

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azoth212 said:
It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences. Personally it's the sort of fan I dislike the most, even more than casual watchers who claim to be "otaku".

elitist pandering anime
Old school anime
Monster [...] Mushishi

Hey, I think Pullman is talking about you in his posts, you might want to read them. You're the perfect example. You lumppeople who disagrees with you in an imaginary category called "elitists" because it's easier than actually dealing with other people's opinions, or backing up your owns.

Mushishi, old school... *laughs*
DeathkoJan 12, 2017 8:34 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Jan 12, 2017 8:38 AM

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Clebardman said:
azoth212 said:
It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences. Personally it's the sort of fan I dislike the most, even more than casual watchers who claim to be "otaku".

elitist pandering anime
Old school anime
Monster [...] Mushishi

Hey, I think Pullman is talking about you in his posts, you might want to read them. You're the perfect example. You lumppeople who disagrees with you in an imaginary category called "elitists" because it's easier than actually dealing with other people's opinions, or backing up your owns.

Mushishi, old school... *laughs*
I'm sorry, should I care about your or his posts?
"Now, come here. So long as we hold hands, we won't be separated."
Jan 12, 2017 8:39 AM

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I can't wait for the 2030 anime cucks to be fighting the 2010 cucks. The only time I've seen the newer anime generation bash the older generation is when the older generation initiates the conflict.

Plus, weren't there like 3-4 threads in the last few weeks about how "anime is getting worst"?
Jan 12, 2017 8:45 AM
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First time I've heard of this. Usually it's the other way around though isn't it?

Jan 12, 2017 8:57 AM

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@azoth212 I don't know, maybe because you're insecure? You're the one who's butthurt enough about others opinions to hide behind delusions after all.
Or maybe because you joined an anime forum to discuss anime...

"elitist pandering anime" lol, that's a nice way to introduce yourself. Welcome to MAL, pleb ;3.
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Jan 12, 2017 8:59 AM

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Maybe, just maybe, the reason newer anime fans are hating on you has little or nothing to do with your preferences. As someone who loves the best of both worlds, I don't get flak from either side because I'm typically not an ass to someone who likes Sword Art Online or Dragon Ball. I'm also not brandishing threads on a daily basis titled the likes of "why is moeshit killing anime?", "loli pedoshit ruined industry", or "lol anime dead otakushit is otakushit."

Perhaps, OP, just perhaps acting like a decent human being will cause other people to treat you like a decent human being.
Jan 12, 2017 9:07 AM

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Clebardman said:
@azoth212 I don't know, maybe because you're insecure? You're the one who's butthurt enough about others opinions to hide behind delusions after all.
Or maybe because you joined an anime forum to discuss anime...

"elitist pandering anime" lol, that's a nice way to introduce yourself. Welcome to MAL, pleb ;3.
Try to figure out the difference, I don't have to label others as "plebs", nor did I call anybody an elitist, all I did was simply stating that those sort of shows tend to attract that specific target. Given the fact that you have to call people names to feel superior, whatever you say demonstrates an evident lack of self worth.
azoth212Jan 12, 2017 9:11 AM
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Jan 12, 2017 9:11 AM

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Ratohnhaketon said:
Maybe, just maybe, the reason newer anime fans are hating on you has little or nothing to do with your preferences. As someone who loves the best of both worlds, I don't get flak from either side because I'm typically not an ass to someone who likes Sword Art Online or Dragon Ball. I'm also not brandishing threads on a daily basis titled the likes of "why is moeshit killing anime?", "loli pedoshit ruined industry", or "lol anime dead otakushit is otakushit."

That's exactly where I stand. I mostly watch 90's and 2000's shows, and way too much ecchi and popcorn stuff to pretend being an old school fan or elitist. But oh boy, the lack of self-awareness of some people really gets at me. I stay away from people who believe in an elitist conspiracy because they have nothing interesting to say. They're usually crybabies who can't stand constructive criticism, have no arguments to back up their opinions, and are ignorant to the point where they don't know the difference between art style and animation. I'd rather argue with a Texhnolyze fan.

edit: ^ please, I'm dying, that was such an obvious bait lol. Try to stay on topic next time instead of writing your unrelated rant about "elitists", this thread is about old school fans.
DeathkoJan 12, 2017 9:34 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Jan 12, 2017 9:11 AM

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you (general you) can make anything up about people and derail the whole thing, stick to discuss anime instead
Jan 12, 2017 9:31 AM

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Ratohnhaketon said:
edit: ^ please, I'm dying, that was such an obvious bait lol. Try to stay on topic next time instead of writing your unrelated rant about "elitists", this thread is about old school fans.
Well, seems like "this is a bait" is the new excuse for "I don't know how to reply". In that case, provide an accurate definition of "rant", please.
"Now, come here. So long as we hold hands, we won't be separated."
Jan 12, 2017 9:45 AM

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I'm 1000% sure it's the other way around most of the time.I'm not even an old member of this community but the amount of ''Modern anime sucks'' ''Anime is dying'' ''Moe is killing anime'' etc. threads I've seen , I've lost the count.

Can't we just watch whatever we like from whatever year be and act fine about it?If someone prefers old anime that's fine if someone prefers new anime that's also fine.
Jan 12, 2017 10:06 AM

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Anything pre 2006 is ugly unless it was produced by Madhouse, OLM, or Studio Gallop.
Jan 12, 2017 11:20 AM

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Tenshi_Shura said:

In summary of what I said, modern fans tend to be generally passive towards old anime. Rather than outright hating it, they just don't really care while the old anime watchers would often be very vocal of their disdain for modern anime which in turn would start this war between the two factions.


Yeah this is true but simply because old anime fans have actual shows they complain about because they are watching them, they are open-minded enough to not shun the whole decade and actually experience stuff which they sometimes end up disliking. That combined with what I previously wrote about the minority just feeling a stronger need to voice their opinion than the majority whose opinion is socially accepted and you know why you see more vocal threads from people who prefer old anime.

But that doesn't mean they have the worse attitude. Once the topic is on the table modern fans are at least as judgmental, prejudiced, generalizing and ignorant as the worst oldfags except without any basis in their actual experience. They just tend to bring it up less because they don't need to, and if they do rant they often disguise themselves as oldfags (anyone saying 'anime has gone downhill' will be seen as an oldfag by people even if they haven't watched any pre-2010 shows). And that gets largely ignored or downplayed by likeminded people who probably don't even realize how bad their attitude is because to them it is common sense to look down on old stuff by default. Judging by how many people sincerely think that looking down on modern and worshipping old anime is the more prevalent attitude, the community is in dire need of some reality lessons on the topic.

azoth212 said:
It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences. Personally it's the sort of fan I dislike the most, even more than casual watchers who claim to be "otaku".


Only Akira is old of those, Mushishi and Monster are just some of the modern anime that tend to also appeal to some of the older fans, but their fanbases are mostly modern fans so they have nothing to do with preferring old anime.

Also idk what dreadful consequences you've encountered, can you elaborate? It's easy to paint the boogeyman on the wall but usually it's either isolated incidents with individual assholes which can appear in every community at any point, or you not telling the whole story, provoking people, being first to insult a show and their fans and then acting surprised when there is backlash etc... For example if someone bashes on Akira because of the animation of course I won't be able to take them seriously and look down on their opinion because it's obvious that the person has no idea what constitutes good animation but pretends to be able to expertly talk about it. That's just being an ignorant prick. Not liking Akira because of any other reason aside from the one thing the movie is objectively good at? No problem. Not big on the movie myself, the manga is much superior in every aspect aside from animation. But when people start lying just to trashtalk something I have no tolerance.

The bottom line is that it's easy to always blame fans of old anime for reacting confrontationally when you're ignorant about your own toxic attitude provoking people. Not saying that's necessarily the case for you, but based on how you carry yourself in this thread so far it's definitely a possibility. If you're always make sweeping generalizations, insulting whole groups of people like in the post I quoted (old anime fans think they have absolute taste, they are all elitists, everyone who likes mushishi or monster is an elitist too etc... It's funny how many sweeping generalizations fit in such a short post) then I'm not surprised if you as a person might have more negative encounters with the fans of those shows than your average joe.
There's seldom enough history behind these claims to justify the conclusion that people like you always draw, that there's a whole regiment of elitist oldfags out there who do nothing but bash everything modern and anyone who likes modern things and who all like the same shows. Especially if your examples for shows they like are two modern shows.

I've seen it too often, people starting with sweeping generalizations about a group and then pointing fingers at anyone trying to defend themselves by reacting in kind. Just like I've too often seen people twist every word of anyone who admits to liking old anime to make it seem like they are being aggressive even when they just neutrally post their preference, until they eventually lose their patience and start acting the way the other side expects them to out of frustration.

So sorry if I'm a bit skeptical that you're a poor victim of verbal abuse from old anime fans, when you come into this thread behaving like an asshole and exhibiting all the negative traits that you claim are so typical for old anime fans. I'm pretty sure you're just under a negative impression because you antagonize people and set a very aggressive tone from the start, especially when it comes to anyone who seems to enjoy anything you deem 'elitist' (which in turn is probably everything you don't like).
Basically your typical stuff. You perfectly represent the attitude of the average community member, with all its ignorance and the already-aggressive-towards-'elitist'-anime-from-the-start baseline that lets any fan of those shows immediately know what you think of them.

There'll always be people like you so I don't really expect to change your attitude about any of this, but you've been such a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier that I had to showcase your comment for that purpose.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 11:28 AM

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jejehartadi said:
Clebardman said:

That's literally the point Pullman is defending, against "anything pre 2000 is ugly" wich is a stance I hear often here.

Well, you can see on his response when he quoted me that he mistook my word 'avoiding' in a negative way, so I need ti tell him that I have the same opinion on old and new.


I never really argued against your personal stance on the topic, just on the general point that avoiding something is better than hating on something you watched and disliked. It's good to know you like both but it's not really part of the discussion. I just generally find it worse to avoid something for no reason than to hate something for a reason so I couldn't agree with your point.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 11:32 AM

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A: *watches currently airing animu*
B: those series are trash! anime from the 1960-80s were much better
A: whatever dude, let me enjoy my animu in peace
B: peasant
A: chill dude, who cares if you don't like them (current anime). not everyone is an elitist.
B: omg why all the hate i get D:
You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/.
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Show your support to your favorite artist if you can!
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Jan 12, 2017 11:38 AM

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Pullman said:
Not liking Akira because of any other reason aside from the one thing the movie is objectively good at? No problem. Not big on the movie myself, the manga is much superior in every aspect aside from animation, color palette, voice acting and soundtrack.

Fixed it for you :>

Keep the long ass posts coming, I really like your tone. Wall of texts here often reek of arrogance but yours are always pretty neutral and interesting. Also, your rekt him
Prophetess of the Golden Era
Jan 12, 2017 11:43 AM

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Clebardman said:
Pullman said:
Not liking Akira because of any other reason aside from the one thing the movie is objectively good at? No problem. Not big on the movie myself, the manga is much superior in every aspect aside from animation, color palette, voice acting and soundtrack.

Fixed it for you :>

Keep the long ass posts coming, I really like your tone. Wall of texts here often reek of arrogance but yours are always pretty neutral and interesting. Also, your rekt him


I definitely got a bit condescending in the last one but whatever, glad you still enjoyed it ^^.
I do think that's it for today, I finally want to sit back and watch some anime after studying all afternoon :>.

And I'll accept those fixes. Sometimes I just can't be bothered to list everything specific to the animation medium (colors, sounds, movement) so I just write 'animation' to summarize. But yeah I usually mean what you wrote, the inherent advantages of the medium, but not improving on the source material in any ways other than those inherent advantages.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 11:51 AM

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Honestly the way I see it newer anime fans have a more elitist attitude than older anime fans. Older anime fans are chill, at least they actually try to critically assess their feelings towards a show and show a little respect and restraint when disagreeing with someone. I would say the average older viewer has more respect than average younger viewer, and this really goes for any fans of any medium.... Not necessarily true 100% of the time but likely accurate.

Newer anime fans just don't give a fuck whether someone disagrees with their opinion or not. They are blunt af and say whatever they feel like regardless of someone's opposing opinions or feelings. It's just a matter of being polite or respectul imo. I don't think the hate necessarily stems from someone being an "older" anime fan, but more from the new-age culture, the post-internet culture I guess you can put it? Anonymity within comments, allowing people to just say or do whatever the hell they want without worrying about any repercussions.

I guess I would consider myself somewhere in the middle? maybe more aligned to the older school anime (in my early 30s). Although I might not have any right to say anything about this topic, when I was young (kids, teens, early 20s) I've never really seen this topic as an issue. Nobody was flaming older fans and older fans really didn't flame newer shows, or newer fans when I was little. It was more friendlier back then, more niche, I'm sure those play in as factors... but I digress.

It's only recently that shit has been hitting the fan harder when it comes to this issue, at least in my eyes.
Jan 12, 2017 12:03 PM

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While I have seen mostly post 2000 stuff and majority of the post 2000 stuff is 2010s, I do appreciate older anime. New, old, it's all pretty fucking cool stuff.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
Jan 12, 2017 12:05 PM

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One thing I do find funny though, when people complain about a season of shows without actually watching the shows from a season which I consider to be good and interesting, instead just watching the few most popular then dismissing.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
Jan 12, 2017 12:24 PM

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Paul said:
Jonouchi-Katsuya said:


What are they praising though? 2011 anime? That doesn't count as being an oldfag. That isn't the Bluray split. If they were praising things from before Haruhi and saying oh things after Haruhi sucked, yeah that would be one thing, but no, people just miss what they watched when they were a teenager. That is it. It is not about genuine artstyle changes.

Modern anime fans will watch things post 2006. They wont watch even Chobits because it looks gross to them... it seriously confuses an oldfag like me... like they just... I think Chobits looks fantastic and I think it has aged amazingly well. But they think it looks really really old. :( They wont watch it.


I'm not talking about people who like think 2010 is considered old, cause it's not. I'm talking about those who keep bragging on about shows from like 1980's and 90s while bashing everything modern. In comparison to that, I rarely see any modern day viewer openly bash on old anime without being taunted or baited into.


I think I've seen maybe 3 or 4 people actually do that in the 7 years I've been active on AD. It's just some outliers, individual assholes, but not large enough to even call it a trend or a group of people.

More often I've seen people talk about how much they love some 80s or 90s shows and that they prefer them over most modern shows and how it's a shame that there aren't many people around who share their preferences etc...., and then modern fans twisting it into something like 'you keep bragging on about shows from like 1980's and 90s while bashing everything modern, fuck you elitist oldfag go back to your ugly shit' or something similar. You really don't need to have aggressive intentions to be perceived as being aggressive when you talk about liking old anime.

Seriously, at least half the time I see people claim some oldfag is being an asshole about his preferences and bashing and insulting every modern anime and their fans, that's just no the case after reading through the thread. It's just that people immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is hating and bashing and insulting everything modern as soon as they voice their preference for old stuff. Unless you pay 10 times as much attention to being diplomatic or emphasizing that you do not prefer old anime, you just also like them, there will always be people who twist your words and make you seem like the bad guy. Which you can always do to everyone if you're semantically tedious enough do the work.

Even when people just made a thread to find other fans of old anime to talk to, the implication is always that they are 'bragging about their elitist taste' when they go out of their way to talk about their preference in any context. Just in general people tend to see it as 'bragging' for some reason when people talk about their preferences and they happen to be not mainstream or perverted. Sometimes it is, but the general public is much quicker to jump to that conclusion than I am in my experience.




And I do in general agree that modern fans tend to bring up the topic of new vs old less, but as I said before that's because they don't need to. They represent the consensus, you don't have to point out that you agree with the consensus, it's a given as long as you don't say otherwise. Old anime fans tend to say otherwise, which is why they catch your attention. But once the topic is on the table both sides can behave equally judgmental and shitty, except modern anime fans will always be in the majority, will always be the 'establishment'.

And I'm rarely under the impression that you need to bait modern fans into saying shit about old anime. When the opportunity presents itself there's always more than enough people willing to emphasize how ugly and inferior they are. They do bring up the topic less often and don't start rants about it, but they damn sure love voicing their disdain of old anime to pay back the (real of imaginary) oldfags and their 'elitist bragging' about their taste when given an opportunity.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 12:34 PM
fanservice<3

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lol this reminds me of the Tupac and Biggie and other 90's hip hop meatriders who go on new songs just to comment about how disappointed Tupac and Biggie would be about todays rap, as if they knew them or something. lots of oldschool 90s rappers end up being featured on new artists tracks, and even the other way around for those 90s rappers that still make music

however, there's a CLEAR difference between mumbling over a hard ass beat using too much autotune as well as never staying on subject, and 90s hip hop poetry storytelling in comparison with 80s/90s and modern anime, which i don't really see a huge change

@Pullman

no matter who it is, you still usually never see people shit talking 80s and 90s anime in a way that isn't a sort of "revenge" tactic
Jan 12, 2017 12:39 PM

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black1blade said:
One thing I do find funny though, when people complain about a season of shows without actually watching the shows from a season which I consider to be good and interesting, instead just watching the few most popular then dismissing.


Yeah that's silly, but you can also apply the argument here that people commonly use against fans of old anime - That they only focus on the popular, memorable stuff from those past decades. I don't think it's unfair to use those as a basis as long as you do the same for modern anime - which is what the person you're describing is doing. Comparing the shows a year is known for, the ones that have mass apeal, to each other should provide a fair means of comparing two years or decades.



I know this is not really related to your post anymore after this, but it always bothers me when people complain that some fan of old anime compares idk, NGE and Utena and Bebop to SAO, Attack on Titan and Love Live saying 'you only focus on the masterpieces from back then and the crap from today that's so biased and unfair'. In fact he's comparing the biggest/most popular shows from the late 90s to the most popular shows of the early 2010s.

If you happen to see the 90s ones as Masterpieces and the modern ones as crap that actually shows that you secretly agree with his point that back then stuff was better. And if you insist that there are tons of great modern anime, they just are a bit less mainstream and more 'hidden gems' you should be willing to admit the same possibility about older anime, but usually the implication is that everything old that isn't still vividly remembered, is crap. Which isn't true. Just like every era has their bad anime, every era has their hidden gems. But what does the best job when comparing two time periods is focusing on the mainstream and successful stuff.

So saying that you prefer the 90s over today because back then we got utena and NGE and DBZ and now we get SAO and AOT and Love Live is absolutely legit. Nothing unfair about this selection. The only way to disagree with it is if you actually think that the shows representing the 2010s (in this case SAO, AOT and Love Live) over the shows representing the late 90s (Bebop, NGE, Lain, HxH etc..). But people always use the 'unfair comparison' argument although half the time it's bullshit and doesn't apply. But it is so socially accepted that nobody questions it anymore.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 12:50 PM

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EcchiLordMamster said:

@Pullman

no matter who it is, you still usually never see people shit talking 80s and 90s anime in a way that isn't a sort of "revenge" tactic


maybe, but half the time the 'revenge' is not based on any experiences but just the general victim complex of modern anime fans cowering from the elitist boogeymen who are everywhere and nowhere at the same time ^^.
Or some of those 'I watch only post 2010 anime but recently it has been going downhill' people offended them and they now take revenge by bashing the 80s or 90s and their fans. You call it revenge, but it's often unalled for imo.

Also the issue I have is less about actively shit-talking the anime from those time periods, but shit-talking the fans. Not even necessarily with the intention to insult, but just by being ignorant pricks in general. Like taking it for granted that nothing old can ever have visuals worth watching and when I or someone else comes in to correct them we get treated like delusional people whose enjoyment is solely dependent on nostalgia. The default opinion the community has about old anime fans is that they are elitists, blinded by nostalgia who don't care for visuals and always brag about their taste. The default opinion the community has about a modern anime fan is that it's normal, nobody thinks twice about it. You don't have to have to be insulted to your face everyday or have your favorite shows insulted to just feel the disdain the average anime fan has for you(r taste). I'm sure you don't need someone to spell it out for you to realize it when they are looking down on ecchi or fanservice. It's kinda like that.
I probably regret this post by now.
Jan 12, 2017 1:05 PM
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Pullman said:
The default opinion the community has about a modern anime fan is that it's normal, nobody thinks twice about it.


i agree with everything but to a degree, this part lol... while it is considered normal, you can't avoid the shit otaku have to constantly hear, and its obviously not just from "old fags" as you stated, its most likely not



anyway, as an old mf, i love my 90s anime and some 80s as well i mean, the girls are still hot af and i agree that its missing out not to watch them. but as someone who doesn't watch non anime cartoons because he doesn't like the way they look i can't fault people who avoid things they think look bad, although the art isn't really that much different in anime, at least to me
Jan 12, 2017 1:08 PM

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Pullman said:
Tenshi_Shura said:

In summary of what I said, modern fans tend to be generally passive towards old anime. Rather than outright hating it, they just don't really care while the old anime watchers would often be very vocal of their disdain for modern anime which in turn would start this war between the two factions.


Yeah this is true but simply because old anime fans have actual shows they complain about because they are watching them, they are open-minded enough to not shun the whole decade and actually experience stuff which they sometimes end up disliking. That combined with what I previously wrote about the minority just feeling a stronger need to voice their opinion than the majority whose opinion is socially accepted and you know why you see more vocal threads from people who prefer old anime.

But that doesn't mean they have the worse attitude. Once the topic is on the table modern fans are at least as judgmental, prejudiced, generalizing and ignorant as the worst oldfags except without any basis in their actual experience. They just tend to bring it up less because they don't need to, and if they do rant they often disguise themselves as oldfags (anyone saying 'anime has gone downhill' will be seen as an oldfag by people even if they haven't watched any pre-2010 shows). And that gets largely ignored or downplayed by likeminded people who probably don't even realize how bad their attitude is because to them it is common sense to look down on old stuff by default. Judging by how many people sincerely think that looking down on modern and worshipping old anime is the more prevalent attitude, the community is in dire need of some reality lessons on the topic.

azoth212 said:
It's the other way around. Old school anime fans tend to offend people who watch newer anime. They believe their taste is absolute and their "classic" anime are untouchable, try to say that you've dropped Monster or that you didn't like Akira, Mushishi or any other elitist pandering anime and see for yourself the consequences. Personally it's the sort of fan I dislike the most, even more than casual watchers who claim to be "otaku".


Only Akira is old of those, Mushishi and Monster are just some of the modern anime that tend to also appeal to some of the older fans, but their fanbases are mostly modern fans so they have nothing to do with preferring old anime.

Also idk what dreadful consequences you've encountered, can you elaborate? It's easy to paint the boogeyman on the wall but usually it's either isolated incidents with individual assholes which can appear in every community at any point, or you not telling the whole story, provoking people, being first to insult a show and their fans and then acting surprised when there is backlash etc... For example if someone bashes on Akira because of the animation of course I won't be able to take them seriously and look down on their opinion because it's obvious that the person has no idea what constitutes good animation but pretends to be able to expertly talk about it. That's just being an ignorant prick. Not liking Akira because of any other reason aside from the one thing the movie is objectively good at? No problem. Not big on the movie myself, the manga is much superior in every aspect aside from animation. But when people start lying just to trashtalk something I have no tolerance.

The bottom line is that it's easy to always blame fans of old anime for reacting confrontationally when you're ignorant about your own toxic attitude provoking people. Not saying that's necessarily the case for you, but based on how you carry yourself in this thread so far it's definitely a possibility. If you're always make sweeping generalizations, insulting whole groups of people like in the post I quoted (old anime fans think they have absolute taste, they are all elitists, everyone who likes mushishi or monster is an elitist too etc... It's funny how many sweeping generalizations fit in such a short post) then I'm not surprised if you as a person might have more negative encounters with the fans of those shows than your average joe.
There's seldom enough history behind these claims to justify the conclusion that people like you always draw, that there's a whole regiment of elitist oldfags out there who do nothing but bash everything modern and anyone who likes modern things and who all like the same shows. Especially if your examples for shows they like are two modern shows.

I've seen it too often, people starting with sweeping generalizations about a group and then pointing fingers at anyone trying to defend themselves by reacting in kind. Just like I've too often seen people twist every word of anyone who admits to liking old anime to make it seem like they are being aggressive even when they just neutrally post their preference, until they eventually lose their patience and start acting the way the other side expects them to out of frustration.

So sorry if I'm a bit skeptical that you're a poor victim of verbal abuse from old anime fans, when you come into this thread behaving like an asshole and exhibiting all the negative traits that you claim are so typical for old anime fans. I'm pretty sure you're just under a negative impression because you antagonize people and set a very aggressive tone from the start, especially when it comes to anyone who seems to enjoy anything you deem 'elitist' (which in turn is probably everything you don't like).
Basically your typical stuff. You perfectly represent the attitude of the average community member, with all its ignorance and the already-aggressive-towards-'elitist'-anime-from-the-start baseline that lets any fan of those shows immediately know what you think of them.

There'll always be people like you so I don't really expect to change your attitude about any of this, but you've been such a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier that I had to showcase your comment for that purpose.
I never intended to offend or provoke anybody, any show or anything in the world and I already pointed out what I truly meant to say. That aside from my personal experience, old anime watchers tend to be the ones who point their finger at anybody who dislikes their precious classic anime, no more no less. Unfortunately it seems like people here are easily triggered by the word "elitist" and "pandering" even when they're used with no intent to offend.
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Jan 12, 2017 1:18 PM

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I've never seen someone say "NEW ANIME IS OBJECTIVELY BETTER THAN OLDER ONE". Most of the hate for old school anime fans comes from their elitism. They think they are better than anyone, that only old anime is good and everything that comes now is shitty.
I'm not saying that every old anime fan is like this, but most of the ones I've seen act like that. And a lot of them don't even see or give attention to actual anime while still saying that there's nothing good coming out. I myself have enjoyed a lot of nice shows in 2016 and I'm pretty happy with that. I guess a lot of people want every show from every season to be a masterpiece, but that's impossible and unrealistic. If more shows and more shows are airing it's impossible for all of them to be good. That's why if I find at least one or two enjoyable shows every season I'm happy with that.
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Jan 12, 2017 1:22 PM

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This doesn't really happen. It's the other way around
Jan 12, 2017 1:24 PM

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4:3 is really a problem for some people? I don't even notice the black space on the edge of my screen after 10 seconds.

I'm an old guy just getting back into anime and haven't watched anything from the 2010's yet except Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, which may be a high bar to compare other anime to. I'm reliving some nostalgia for the stuff I watched as far back as the 80's, but storytelling has evolved and I would be shocked if the newer stuff doesn't blow me away.

TV dramas are light years ahead of what they were 20 years ago; many books I read in the 80's wouldn't be published today. Movies are another story-- the movie industry has been ruined by the "blockbuster or bust" mentality, but I digress...

I appreciate stuff from my generation with nostalgia, and it doesn't always hold up even with that in mind. I appreciate stuff from before my generation as a fan of entertainment history... the classics are usually great, but sometimes require a degree of patience.

So kids, if it's not your thing, no worries. Occasionally challenge yourself anyway, you might be surprised. And to the old farts, don't be so defensive. That is all.
Jan 12, 2017 1:28 PM

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In my personal experience, it's the other way around.
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Jan 12, 2017 1:37 PM

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A lot of modern fans tend to be very closed minded. Most of them refuses watch shows before 2010s or the mid-2000s because apparently those shows have awful animation & art style.

What's worse is when this same individuals come up with nonsense statements such "People that like old anime only like those shows for simple nostalgia" or classifying anyone that praises old anime to be a elitist prick.
ElliestyJan 12, 2017 1:48 PM
Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM

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Really because maybe they perceive the older anime lovers as maudlin elitist who do not appreciate the newer anime series. Actually, I like to watch both old and new series, I never would limit myself to just one period or genre of anime.
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