Basic Mafia v4: Haruhi Suzumiya Mafia | Game Over - Mafia and Third Party Win

Sonata said:
" Attempting to decide if a player is town or mafia based on a flavor claim also has the potential to end badly. This is your warning."

From #1, rule 9.

Grapefruit21 said:
So if nobody here is lying (which is not by any means a garuntee) then scum has to be among Phraze, LucianRoy, Gruffin, Kit, Logic and Sithis. Denja, Sonata, and Penta are all claiming town power (again not necessarily all town, but for now I believe) and if Sonata is telling the truth Rosie is town (I think, might have misunderstood a claim there).

I do not believe Kit is scum, that means there are 3 to 4 scum amongst Lucian Phraze, Gruff, Logic, and Sithis. I don't think I'll be able to get momentum for a Logic lynch so we are looking at a high probability of hitting scum among Phraze, Gruff, Lucian, and Sithis for our lynches for today. I do not think it makes sense to lynch Sonata tonight if I am reading cryptic claims correctly regardless of alignment and I am will to believe Denjax and take Penta at face value for now. Am I missing anything if everyone is telling the truth?

Kit said:
Gruffin (as well as me) saw the post sonata made about hinting having a power role before sonata edited it out. Do you think if Sonata is town, and a scum had seen that hint, that scum team would have chosen not to kill sonata?

Grapefruit21 said:
Unless they'd found Soren's role and figured he was a better NK than Sonata, with Denja's visit and knew he was a better PR because of it. Only problem with that is why would Denja confirm what Sonata said unless it was a slip up.

DenjaX said:
which post was the edited one?

I reckon editing is not allowed

Kit said:
I don't think he hinted it, so i'm not sure how they'd find out, unless jailor sends a role block notification, one of the mafia got the roleblock notification, and another mafia has a tracker ability and tracked soren and saw him visit the scum buddy that got blocked. But even at that all they know is he can roleblock since i dont think anyone assumed jailor was in the game. (and that situation is so convoluted it seems unlikely)

Grapefruit21 said:


This is all confusing but what I was trying to get across is Mafia saw the edit, but wanted to NK Soren because DenjaX had investigated N1 and found a PR. This idea makes everything click except for Denja confirming a Soren visit N1.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Kit this whole thing is making my brain hurt. Everyone seems to be accidentally claiming from a town mindset except Denja who confirmed a claim that confirmed them as a PR which would have 0 benefit for them to do as scum.

So either all 3 are town (because Penta looks unbelieveably towny coming out of this) or either Sonata or Denja did something anti-scum as scum...

Kit said:
Maybe I was right all along and Lucian is scum? Along with phraze and sithis due to POE. game solved XD

Grapefruit21 said:


I'm thinking you might be right about Lucian, I still suspect Gruff but that is dependant on DenjaX being scum at this point (which doesn't seem super likely) so possible teams look like: Denja/Gruff/x/y(if 4 scum teams) or Lucian/Rosie/Sithis/Phraze/logic. I guess I need to stop and not town clear you, but I've had you town piled for a while and I'm too excited about this to relook at you right now.

Grapefruit21 said:
Only problem with our gamesolve @Kit is if Sonata is scum and super outplaying everyone. Hmmmm need to think.

Kit said:
Yeah that is the problem I'm having, and Sonata's flip either way doesn't even confirm Denja either way since Sonata could be town or scum watcher (if denja is town) or could be scum lying about being watcher (if both are scum) which is frustrating

edit: or if sonata is town and denja scum then denja could have a scum pr

Grapefruit21 said:
On suspecting Gruffin I have had a several small things pinging me, D1 stuff I didn't like, defending Lucian and Sonata so zealously in D3, Votes, dismissing VCA and interaction analysis as useless before scum flips (taking tools even in a diminished state off the table), and a few small things. Not enough that I ever wanted to make them the top train, but enough that they were consistently on my radar.

Kit said:
oh but if Sonata's scum watcher and Denja's town they would have killed Denja/aa-dono on night 2... and if Denja's scum and Sonata's town then Denja could have lied and claimed he didn't visit Soren n1 and push sonata mislynch... :/

So maybe they're either both town or both scum

This is making me do a lot of hypothetical thinking

Grapefruit21 said:


I agree with all of that. The only small thing is if Denja went next level thinking cc leads to the mislynch which instantly leads to his lynch and decided to try and clear both of them. But I don't know if I believe that because of the way he reacted to Sonata making the claim and his interactions with Penta.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Kit what I'm most confused about now is Sonata being so convinced that DenjaX is town and they would clear them while staying so suspicious of Penta who comes out of it looking like confused town.

Also reading it now Denja's post come across as town, but it's not a hard read. And I'd had a town town lean on aa-dono all along so that might be my bias showing.

Grapefruit21 said:

None of this explains why you moved off in the first place. You are making a lot of defeatist noise about your move here, but you still made it. I'm just asking what you have to gain from making the move. By your own words you don't think it would lean to anything, so why bother? I see two possible motivations to move your vote either to stop a mislynch or to earn town credit. And you just admitted you weren't particularly interested in stopping a mislynch: "How am I supposed to care about a player who was practically inactive for a good majority of the phase?"

logic340 said:
unvote
vote: PentaFlare
My vote on Sonata isn't doing anything and hey seems to be a town consensus, lets see if this get a better reaction. I have nothing definitively scummy I actually have a town lean on him most game but this makes me feel as if they have gone under my radar a little bit. They have done a great job of explaining their thought process but now the whole Bursama over explaining thing stands out to me. I am going too look back over the thread and see if there are any other instances where Penta stands out to me.

I will say this I have gotten the Chione feel from early on this game, especially in regards to the NKA discussion. I don't know how to feel about NKA because I have never been scum and don't truly know the though process behind a NK.

From experience town have talked about NKA while scum have discouraged it.

Penta was discouraging NKA talk (I was too though). I know this isn't solid but couple that with the fact that Penta isn't voting yet this phase and it's enough to make me want to look deeper into Penta.

Phraze said:
lynches: x40, Bursama [passive aka easy-to-die-off players]
nightkills: Mish, Soren [reserved aka confusing players]
[even the deaths look pro town.... lol]

Grapefruit and Logic seem to be on the same wavelength aka alignment. Grapefruit comes off as town to me, so Logic should be town. I've also mentioned before that Logic would be hella nervous for his first scumgame. by association, Lucian should be town for agreeing with that. combined with some of his seemingly pro town strategy.
[townreads for Grapefruit/Logic/Lucian via association]

Gruffin: claimed new playstyle, but it seems more anti town than her old one.
Kit: under radar. but she would be nervous for her first scumgame, similar vein to Logic. she approached Gruffin confidently, so it's a big town tell. [newb!scum won't do so]
Phraze: well.... I'll just let ppl read off me and my interactions~
Rosie: new to the game. pretty direct so far. another not-newb!scum tell.
Dono(now Denja): been more active D3, but emotional. rep'd out
Sithis: been feeling scum neutral from them since D1, hasn't improved at all.

Sonata: getting townreads for doing something so obviously scummy. could be staged.
Penta: not likeing their interaction with Dono. it looks fluffy suspicious. staged?

suspects:
Gruffin/Sonata
+ Dono or Penta whichever fits from their interaction
+ I like Sithis in PoE so adding him in
+ Sonata/Penta/Gruffin? thoughts?

Grapefruit21 said:
@LucianRoy Sonata claimed and named DejnaX as a PR then Penta claimed a PR trying to cc but then said oops. Kit and I have been trying to sum it up and PoE what it means.

Grapefruit21 said:
@LucianRoy Right you are that is pretty embarrassing by me, well there goes that case. My bad.

LucianRoy said:

Yoooooo, ok, uhh, what?

logic340 said:
Personally they owe me nothing. They said they would make up for their mistake so am I wrong for trying to hold them to that? Does it make me scummy for asking? Right now Sonata's play looks pretty scummy end of D2 a lot of us are giving it a pass right now due to the fact that another mislynch is a really bad move. I still cannot discount the fact that this could have been a risky scum move, espeiclaly when I look at the post where you called this exact scenario. It begs the question is Lucian a guessing genius this game??
-Guessed 40 right
-Guessed Bursama right
-Guessed Sonata's moves leading up to the hammer correctly.

Some may look at this and think you have inside information. Are you a mafia soothsayer?

Lord_Sithis said:
Well, for now I'm going to vote Phraze, but I have lots of catching up to do, so that might change.

Vote: Phraze

logic340 said:
@LucianRoy I don't think you have mentioned much about the exchange between Kit and Gruffin over you. Do you feel like Gruffin made valid points? Do you feel like Kit should be voting for you given their position? Also I see you avoided a question that Grapefruit asked you in regards to myself I would like to hear your thoughts on the situation. I would like everyone to chime in on that post instead of ignoring it.

Gruffin said:
I would saaay...Sithis, Phraze, aa-dono have all not been very open and I feel that Phraze, Sonata, and Kit are all doing things that promote confusion/paranoia. With Kit, that’s because of our interaction yesterday, so I need to give that another look to judge if that was their intention though.

Everyone else has shown me signs of acting in the interest of directing the game to a clearer state.

Wellll, I mean more like who isn't trying to do things that will help them understand the game better and help their fellow players understand better? Who's stirring up the pot and who's coasting without the effort to solve the game?

@DenjaX Ayyy welcome, comrade.

Could you give me details on how your read progressed? Like what points jumped out as scummy/townie as you were forming your read?

@Grapefruit21 Yeah, I got carried away defending my stance on Lucian. :\ I’ll let him respond to accusations on his own so I can see how he’ll react.

Yeah. Phraze has been very confusing so far, I'd like to see more of her thought process today if at all possible.

Vote: Phraze

This is subject to change as I reread stuff. I was thinking about Kit, but need to reread on them first.

I feel that Phraze hasn't done much to stay off my scumlist, still confusing as ever.

Sonata...Might be town? Her apology read as geniune to me and no matter how hard I try I cannot find a good reason for scum to do what she did. I mean, yes, one mislynch achieved, but potentially endangering a teammate that had towncred over a ML that was most likely going to happen on its own? It doesn't make any sense to me.