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Poll: Hibike! Euphonium 2 Episode 13 Discussion


Dec 29, 2016 8:15 PM

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I've had this season at a 9 this entire airing period, but after that episode I'm bumping it up to a ten.

It was so beautiful, heartfelt, and poignant. The timing was great, the recap was for emotional purposes (aka there was a purpose for it for once), the dialouge was so realistic and so powerful I felt tears slip from my eyes without any conscious effort whatsoever.

I'm very happy they didn't go down the ridiculously forced Shuichi route. I favored kumiko x reina up until midway through this season, but the development between Auska and Kumiko made me switch sodes. I still like kumikoxreina, but I don't feel the same emotion from them as I did in the last season. Their development felt just so natural. I couldn't help but fall for them.

The ending 5/5 This season 10/10 The anime 10/10



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Dec 29, 2016 8:31 PM

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And thus ends the second season of "Drama" the anime. Honestly took me a bit to get into this because the first few episodes just felt like they wanted to pull off the basic school anime cliches, but after taking like an 8 week break from this, I marathoned it and loved every second of it, remembering in the process why I like Hibike Euphonium and it's drama and characters. This was good. I liked this. Good way to rap this season up. 8/10. Our main protagonist found herself IN LOVE WITH HER GLASSES SENPAI. A NEW YURI RELATIONSHIP IS BORN. I support it.

shanimebib said:



Nevermind... Whatever, I support this too. I guess -w-
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Dec 29, 2016 8:32 PM
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gnodab said:
itszayeric said:
the yurism didnt advance. bummer

[img]omitted


Kumiko x Reina? That ship sunk long ago.
... probably no later than the rolling of the end credits of Season one, Episode eight ... when Kumiko was instructed by the creators of the story to make the dream come to an end in her narrator's voice. After she had been instructed to provide voice over commentary about her attraction to Reina and talk about the fear those feelings and this girl instilled in her - as they climbed and reached the top of the hill together. One of the highest points in the series.

In my opinion - Girls attracted to girls shouldn't be told to be afraid of their feelings. Nor be given the impression that they should fear the girls they love. In my opinion, they should be made aware that current society still prefers to pretend that their feelings don't exist. Especially as they mature. No matter how those feelings may develop. Develop into lasting friendship... or into brief moments together before parting ways completely.... Or into life long romantic attractions to girls. One or more than one.... or...

They need to be made aware that a society where only one option is acceptable - where only one way to deal with their attractions is offered- is not necessarily deserving of praise but in need of change. Here fear was directed at the wrong target... in my opinion.

Here Reina was shown to be attracted to a man. It happens. Kumiko is still up in the air about such matters. Hope they make the right choices for themselves. In a scenario where the end of the their first year in high school isn't treated as the best thing that happened in their lives.

So raise the curtains and let us see what happens next and we'll provide our commentary along the way. With such a broadcast you'd expect there'd be room for a lesbian or two...
Modified by removed-user, Dec 29, 2016 8:41 PM
 
Dec 29, 2016 9:16 PM
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Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
....
I know it would be great if the novelist could forget about the glas wall and the ugly gender inequality of our real world to set up proper unexpected female examples for the next generations.
Aozora Yell

It is possible that Kyoani was giving us their self-aware social commentary. Matsumoto Michie, veteran advisor walks in to a class room and a club room and tells the school girls to lower their skirts. She is the liaison with the animation studio and has been informed that their camera crews will be following the concert band members around for a while. To create a TV drama out of their lives. The advisor is aware that Yamada and Ishihara are attached to the project. Knows to expect low camera angles. Lots of focus on thighs. It makes sense to this advisor to tell the girls not to roll up skirts, raise hem lines - lest they reveal more than they want to show.
A little in joke where the animators poke fun at themselves and their shows. Breaking the fourth wall with subtlety as they re-create the town and offer us an other slice of life - gently cracking wise at but not trying to break through the glass ceiling in their reality show. Not trying to change everything. Not trying to alienate our audience. Don't put in actual gay people. That will scare off our regular viewers. Make them tune out. Reach for the remote control... Maybe.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
"these people seeing Yuri everywhere."
Maybe because there is hardly any real yuri anywhere? Did you watch Flip Flappers?
Modified by removed-user, Dec 30, 2016 12:10 AM
 
Dec 29, 2016 10:22 PM

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Nooooooo I don't want it to end 😢😭😭😭
But they broke all of my hopes 💔
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Dec 30, 2016 12:58 AM

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That resolution was better than I could have hoped for. Several things.






Overall I think it was a great story. I rated both seasons 8/10. The show got me to care, it played tricks on me, and it had a wonderful soundtrack along with the nice choices of compositions. You don't really have to like symphony music to enjoy it either. Also, it's conclusive. ......Yeah I'm looking at you Re:Zero. Why you gotta tug at my heart strings, bro.


 
Dec 30, 2016 1:14 AM

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Aside from all of the character stuff, does anyone have any responses to the level of music they actually played?

I mean, i've heard a lot of school bands, and they've never played music as complex as that, and i don't recall there ever being anything like solo bits or anything. More often than not they just played simplified versions of the Star Wars theme and stuff like that.

VersoSciolto said:
Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
"these people seeing Yuri everywhere."
Maybe because there is hardly any real yuri anywhere? Did you watch Flip Flappers?
Uh, there was way more yuri-like allusion in this than there ever was in Flip Flappers (aside from that freaky woman in the desert place with the bondage harem). It was another nonsensical dodge like Yuri Kuma Arashi. Flip Flappers had coming of age commentary, but not else. Most of it's symbolism was references to old art optical illusions, friendship, and family. The writer talked more about yuri than actually applied it.

Eupho had all the sensual touching, cuddling, embracing and gazing.
If Taki was still married, and Shuuichi wasn't part of the picture, then Kumiko x Reina would be a fact. Its not everywhere, it's just those two specifically. @Ysad_Ziwezhan
Modified by GenesisAria, Dec 30, 2016 2:13 AM
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Dec 30, 2016 2:02 AM
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GenesisAria said:
Aside from all of the character stuff, does anyone have any responses to the level of music they actually played? ...

The musicians were identified as university students but there are quite a few good Japanese High School concert and marching bands. The one most often mentioned as a Takeda's inspiration is Kyoto's Tachibana. There are videos of their performances and some documentaries giving insight into their training regimes.

Flip Flappers.
 
Dec 30, 2016 2:18 AM

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@VersoSciolto
I was mostly talking about how the stuff they played was pretty complex. I wouldn't be surprised it it was accurate to japanese highschool, i was just curious if anyone noticed the fact that they weren't playing simple songs at all.

I'm still waiting on better subs, so i haven't seen the last ep of FliFla yet.
Modified by GenesisAria, Dec 30, 2016 2:57 AM
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Dec 30, 2016 2:39 AM
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GenesisAria said:
@VersoSciolto
I was mostly talking about how the stuff they played was pretty complex. I wouldn't be surprised it it was accurate to japanese highschool, i was just curious if anyone noticed the fact that they weren't playing simple songs at all.

I'm still waiting on better subs, so i haven't seen the last ep yet.
I don't remember where I read it but the suggestion was made that at least one piece of music was changed from the novel version because it was a bit too complex for kids of middle school and high school age.


It has been noted a few times along the way that the level required to play these compositions is pretty high and the music complex. It has also been noted that the musicians adjusted to sound age appropriate for the characters they were enacting.

Good opportunity to restate that I came to this series because of the musical instruments in promotion artwork and I thought the way the musical scenes were animated was outstanding. Confirmed by people with experience although a couple pages back someone posted about not being that impressed or moved by the performances....
 
Dec 30, 2016 2:48 AM

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GenesisAria said:

Eupho had all the sensual touching, cuddling, embracing and gazing.
If Taki was still married, and Shuuichi wasn't part of the picture, then Kumiko x Reina would be a fact. Its not everywhere, it's just those two specifically. @Ysad_Ziwezhan


I didn't interpret anything of this as potentially lesbian. The subtext was way too light, too unsubstancial, not like yuri on ice, where from ep 4 there were already way too much subtext to let it stop at the baiting level. If there were one exception in Hibike, it would be perhaps that time when Reina touched Kumiko's nose but that's all. I wondered because that was something intimate in my view, but that was the only thing and Reina saying she's in love with someone else and Kumiko not caring or even rooting for her. That didn't let me further speculate.

I don't mind if people have ships, even yuri one, what did bother me was the aggressiveness of the tone toward the heterosexual ship (poor Shuuichi) and the total bitterness when the facts didn't align with their delusions. Well, some are still in the delusional state even now that the series ended. It's crazy. I even came to understand why some say "yuri fans are cancer". I found it at first a bit rude but at a point I surprised myself being about to write it too. Anyway, not all yuri-shippers are that crazy/bothersome at least. I believe there's still a bit of humanity in some of them, for the other ones, it's too late : they transformed in crazy irrational monsters from hell already, there's no return it seems.
 
Dec 30, 2016 3:03 AM

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VersoSciolto said:
Good opportunity to restate that I came to this series because of the musical instruments in promotion artwork and I thought the way the musical scenes were animated was outstanding. Confirmed by people with experience although a couple pages back someone posted about not being that impressed or moved by the performances....
Yeah i spotted that way back. A keen eye and good reasoning, you don't have to be into music to tell that it was outstandingly accurate animation for the playing of the instruments. I love KyoAni's passion to actually make sure they do all of that stuff right.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
GenesisAria said:
Eupho had all the sensual touching, cuddling, embracing and gazing.
If Taki was still married, and Shuuichi wasn't part of the picture, then Kumiko x Reina would be a fact. Its not everywhere, it's just those two specifically. @Ysad_Ziwezhan
I didn't interpret anything of this as potentially lesbian. The subtext was way too light, too unsubstancial, not like yuri on ice, where from ep 4 there were already way too much subtext to let it stop at the baiting level. If there were one exception in Hibike, it would be perhaps that time when Reina touched Kumiko's nose but that's all. I wondered because that was something intimate in my view, but that was the only thing and Reina saying she's in love with someone else and Kumiko not caring or even rooting for her. That didn't let me further speculate.
You weren't watching very closely then. I'm one of the people who was really digging this JK(joshikousei) psychology goldmine, and those two were riding the edge of ROMANTIC, not sexual, partnership. The primary thing preventing Reina from getting Kumiko to look at her more, was the fact that she loved Taki more. They were way closer than normal friends, and they acted like it too; they were't even like best friends who shared their troubles normally, they wanted to know more about eachother, so they paid attention, and they gravitated towards one another irrationally like pre-lovers do. It's that edge-riding that's considered "okay as long as they grow out of it and it doesn't evolve into romance" in japan, as a cultural aversion to lesbianism - meaning they were in the pre-stage to lesbian relationship, with circumstancial and societal deterrents.

I don't mind if people have ships, even yuri one, what did bother me was the aggressiveness of the tone toward the heterosexual ship (poor Shuuichi) and the total bitterness when the facts didn't align with their delusions. Well, some are still in the delusional state even now that the series ended. It's crazy. I even came to understand why some say "yuri fans are cancer". I found it at first a bit rude but at a point I surprised myself being about to write it too. Anyway, not all yuri-shippers are that crazy/bothersome at least. I believe there's still a bit of humanity in some of them, for the other ones, it's too late : they transformed in crazy irrational monsters from hell already, there's no return it seems.
There's lots of idiots, but there's also something called "being right for the wrong reasons". Shuuichi was, frankly, played off as non-relevant in the anime. Even in his odd scenes where he shows a lot of understanding and thought for Kumiko, it was still in childhood friend territory. Many people shipped Reina x Kumiko because of scenes like the nose-caress, but they missed all of the psychology going on that actually made their case valid. Also, Kumiko has expressed both verbally and in body language that she's apathetic towards Shuuichi; she shrugs off every attempt to ship them, like it's nothing.

At any rate, the fact that people "ship" isn't a bad thing, it's actually a good thing, because they're promoting love. It's just often times they can be annoying or persistent about it, instead of just having pleasant dreams or making some doujins.
Modified by GenesisAria, Dec 30, 2016 4:00 AM
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Dec 30, 2016 3:28 AM

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GenesisAria said:
I'm still waiting on better subs, so i haven't seen the last ep yet.


Episode 13 subtitle from CR wasn't flawless (Yuuko's "Aoi-senpai!" instead of "Kaori-senpai!" was pretty blatant) and one of Kumiko's lines when she shot down Asuka's suggestion on the bridge was pretty un-lady like (even for Kumiko) and could have been phrased better. But it was overall good.

----------------------------------------------------


One of the best moments of the episode was Reina looking towards Kaori-senpai before preforming her solo as we see Kaori-senpai's relaxed smile and then Yuuko looking towards Reina with a gentle smile.



Moments like this that make this anime such a treat even though it replaced more poignant moment from the novel.



----------------------------------------------------


Also I am positive that next year Kitauji will attract more students, probably some of them will be really talented ones now that Kitauji has made a name by performing in the Nationals. Who knows, maybe they will even go on and win gold. Why do I feel like that? Because of the little segment Shuuichi had in the final episode.



It may seem strange and purely coincidental but Shuuichi has this ability to understand situations better than those of his age and predict outcomes which have always been accurate throughout the story. Putting aside the facts that he was the first person to question Asuka-senpai's character and even question Taki-sensei's ability to deal with situations when called for (which became evident during the all important Asuka arc), he was also the first person to really consider that going to Nationals was a possibility seeing how everyone was improving within a short period of time while others were not even sure about the prefecture level. He was also confident that they would be alright in the prefecture level because of the amount of practice the put into it and they ended up getting gold. And then he was shown worried the night before the Nationals and Kitauji ended up getting bronze. He is literally The Guy Who Knows Too Much.

----------------------------------------------------


Oh! Kumiko! Why are you so tensed and stuttering when Shuuichi is only talking about Kitauji's chances in next year's Nationals?


 
Dec 30, 2016 3:40 AM

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shanimebib said:
It may seem strange and purely coincidental but Shuuichi has this ability to understand situations better than those of his age and predict outcomes which have always been accurate throughout the story. Putting aside the facts that he was the first person to question Asuka-senpai's character and even question Taki-sensei's ability to deal with situations when called for (which became evident during the all important Asuka arc), he was also the first person to really consider that going to Nationals was a possibility seeing how everyone was improving within a short period of time while others were not even sure about the prefecture level. He was also confident that they would be alright in the prefecture level because of the amount of practice the put into it and they ended up getting gold. And then he was shown worried the night before the Nationals and Kitauji ended up getting bronze. He is literally The Guy Who Knows Too Much.
Sounds like me lol. It's just the mark of someone who is consistently using abductive reasoning: assessing situations, forming hypotheses and testing them... it means he's intelligent.

Ps: when i said i was waiting for better subs, i meant FliFla, not Eupho.

Edit:
Btw, what's your take on what i said?
Modified by GenesisAria, Dec 30, 2016 4:29 AM
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Dec 30, 2016 4:17 AM
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shanimebib said:
"The Guy Who Knows Too Much"
Highly suspicious in a story with a cast of 90% girls to have this god like boy in their midst. Fortunately he was reduced to size in the tv series.

The trumpet moments were nice and it would have been more difficult to have those exchanged glances between Reina and Kaori during the actual performance at nationals. It wouldn't have made it possible to show Kaori's finger movements...

Still wish they'd allowed Reina's character more dignity at the the nationals stage. I was really looking forward to hearing how - if at all- her performance of the solo would have changed after the many changes in her life.

The argument made by some that the performance would have been a repetition doesn't hold water for me. That is the essence of live music performance. Not one concert is the same even by the same musicians or ensemble. Not sure what the reason was but I consider it a missed opportunity and potentially even a slight indication of underestimating the audience (..though that last point may be too cynical a view)
Modified by removed-user, Dec 30, 2016 4:32 AM
 
Dec 30, 2016 4:34 AM

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GenesisAria said:

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
I didn't interpret anything of this as potentially lesbian. The subtext was way too light, too unsubstancial, not like yuri on ice, where from ep 4 there were already way too much subtext to let it stop at the baiting level. If there were one exception in Hibike, it would be perhaps that time when Reina touched Kumiko's nose but that's all. I wondered because that was something intimate in my view, but that was the only thing and Reina saying she's in love with someone else and Kumiko not caring or even rooting for her. That didn't let me further speculate.
You weren't watching very closely then. I'm one of the people who was really digging this JK(joshikousei) psychology goldmine, and those two were riding the edge of ROMANTIC, not sexual, partnership. The primary thing preventing Reina from getting Kumiko to look at her more, was the fact that she loved Taki more. They were way closer than normal friends, and they acted like it too; they were't even like best friends who shared their troubles normally, they wanted to know more about eachother, so they paid attention, and they gravitated towards one another irrationally like pre-lovers do.


Agree they were more than normal friends. KumikoxReina was stronger than KumikoxMidori for instance. However if you want to reach the romantic level, you need something different or more than the great friendship/admiration hints we got.


I don't mind if people have ships, even yuri one, what did bother me was the aggressiveness of the tone toward the heterosexual ship (poor Shuuichi) and the total bitterness when the facts didn't align with their delusions. Well, some are still in the delusional state even now that the series ended. It's crazy. I even came to understand why some say "yuri fans are cancer". I found it at first a bit rude but at a point I surprised myself being about to write it too. Anyway, not all yuri-shippers are that crazy/bothersome at least. I believe there's still a bit of humanity in some of them, for the other ones, it's too late : they transformed in crazy irrational monsters from hell already, there's no return it seems.
There's lots of idiots, but there's also something called "being right for the wrong reasons". Shuuichi was, frankly, played off as non-relevant in the anime. Even in his odd scenes where he shows a lot of understanding and thought for Kumiko, it was still in childhood friend territory. Many people shipped Reina x Kumiko because of scenes like the nose-caress, but they missed all of the psychology going on that actually made their case valid. Also, Kumiko has expressed both verbally and in body language that she's apathetic towards Shuuichi.


Apathetic in a romantic way, I think too, but the scene between her and Schuuichi in episode 12 for me was the proof that they are very close at least in a brother - sister like manner.The way they speak, the way she teases him, even the way she rebuffs him at first and the way he lets it slide, it's typical from people who know eachother since a long time and gets along relatively well. I loved this scene and with episode 12 - 13 I really had the feeling that Schuuichi did give up "for the moment" on being with her in a romantic way, he's not "pushy", but still cares for her a lot, obviously, and she doesn't hate him, obviously.

However I think you don't need that much time or so many hints to transform a close relationship in something romantical. An invitation, one gaze in the eyes, the right words at the right moment, a hesitation, a blushing, ... a situation can change pretty fast and looks believable for the viewers, for a yuri conclusion aswell, if the autor wants it and give the right hints with a good timing. Contrarily to what some yuri fans say, it's not like a Kumiko x Schuiichi would come from nowhere or had to start from zero, there's already a strong old bond (even if it doesn't look like mutual love yet) It was for me at least obvious in episode 12.
That's why I'm waiting for an eventual OVA.
 
Dec 30, 2016 4:47 AM
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For whatever it's worth. My dislike for the childhood friend scenario wouldn't have changed at all. I dislike this coddling to obnoxious comments like the one made by Shuuichi on the bench by the river at the very start of the series and I seriously think he hasn't changed - and the implication that the girl will love a boy who says such things regardless is unpleasant to me.
That dislike is further compounded by the friends of the girl never accepting her word for it that she truly wants to remain friends wit him.

Hard to believe perhaps but that is entirely separate from any yuri considerations.

Examples:


... still curious if you think there might be a connection with Genji Monogatari. Perhaps it can serve as point of departure when wondering if perhaps polite sophisticated language isn't the way to get the point across. It was written over a millennium ago, after all.
Modified by removed-user, Dec 30, 2016 5:10 AM
 
Dec 30, 2016 4:48 AM

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@Ysad_Ziwezhan
Yeah i know all that (hence why i said childhood friend aka osanajimi), and i know that Kumiko x Shuuichi is what is in store for the future... But like you said, all it takes is that one extra little push; Kumiko x Reina were getting there too, and as i said, the thing keeping Reina from going for Kumiko, was Taki.
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Dec 30, 2016 4:53 AM

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bitch ribbons is the new president......oh my

anyway,what the heck was up with everyone trying to convince Kumiko that she likes Shuichi?was it jab at people who ship them despite their zero relationship development during the course of both seasons?
btw.i think of the novels as stand alone piece...what is novel canon,is not anime canon.

me watching this episode like....."does Kumiko like Asuka?"
*Kumiko goes to look for Asuka*
"is she going to confess?hahah"
Kumiko:"because now,i love you"
me:"..........ok"
(still makes more sense than Kumiko x Shuichi)

Anyway,i was kinda mad so i wanted to give is measly 8 but i can't say i truly didn't enjoy this season so...
 
Dec 30, 2016 6:44 AM

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Fuckin beautiful, 8/10.
 
Dec 30, 2016 8:38 AM

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An amazing finale to end this season, the drama was really beyond me. I can't handle it anymore
If there would be a 3rd Season or a OVA/Movie sequel I'm still gonna watch it.
Anyway, I'm gonna rate this show an 8 out of 10 score overall.
Haters always gonna hate.
 
Dec 30, 2016 9:39 AM

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I don't know what to say but this was the most beautiful conclusion to the series. The first post said already much I would like to say. It was such a fitting ending that I was so happy that the third-years have graduated and everything was to start anew for the new year for Kumiko and the others. The last scene with Asuka and Kumiko is what got me so much in tears that she used to didn't like Asuka for her attitude on things but that she really loved how Asuka played her euphonium splendidly. I do believe it's a fresh start after Asuka gave her that notebook and I was so surprised about the title that it gave me the feels.

I really, really enjoyed this season and KyoAni does an amazing job with their animation and visuals that impresses me on how they do things! I love the characters so much that it's been a ride since S1. Even though they never won gold for the Nationals, there's always a chance that they can be successful and come back to do it again. Thanks for a wonderful season, KyoAni! :)
 
Dec 30, 2016 11:11 AM

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The show on a whole was just beautiful.
I think i shed a tear(that managed to roll down my cheek) on episode 12 which is amazing because only AnoHana has ever managed to do that. KyoAni went all out with Hibike and when you think about this adaption being from a Novel(no sound, no instruments, no pictures. Just words) it becomes clear as day just how spectacular it is.

A few scenes in particular were just astounding, for example Kumiko's face when she reacts to Reina's confession outburst at the concert hall for Taki-sensei was just easily a 15/10 on the drawing and animation quality scale.

10/10 on a whole just because i love the series. Hibike has definitely firmly positioned itself among my favourites.

P.S: And i think it's clear i like Yuri ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) But did anyone really expect this fabulous show to end up focusing on Kumiko x Reina? It's a slice of life / music / drama show. All that matters is that we did indeed receive a large number of very high quality yuri-ish scenes that made our inner selves shout 'YEAH MAN, THATS RIGHT'. That alone mixed with a show with excellent visuals, beautiful music and great writing only further justifies that i rate it a tad higher than others simply because i appreciate the yuri scenes more.

I'll be waiting for Citrus and Netsuzou TRap for our true yuri delights next year!
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Dec 30, 2016 11:17 AM

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This is the first time I ever click "update" button on MAL with teary eyes, knowing there wont be any new episode next week. A lot of ups and downs but the former shines far brighter late game wise.
It's such a rare case to enjoy amazing story, beautiful arts and high quality music, all in one package. Well done KyoAni, you won, I'll order those BDs.
 
Dec 30, 2016 12:11 PM

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Another great show music show down. I just finished Your lie in April yesterday too ;_;

A definite 8/10, only because the first half with Mizore got pretty stupid and unrealistic. But a strong conclusion and I loved Asuka's arc. Asuka is definitely best girl.

AsukaXKumiko is all I see now. That was one hell of a proposal.
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Dec 30, 2016 6:11 PM
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Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
GenesisAria said:

Eupho had all the sensual touching, cuddling, embracing and gazing.
If Taki was still married, and Shuuichi wasn't part of the picture, then Kumiko x Reina would be a fact. Its not everywhere, it's just those two specifically. @Ysad_Ziwezhan

I didn't interpret anything of this as potentially lesbian. The subtext was way too light, too unsubstancial, not like yuri on ice, where from ep 4 there were already way too much subtext to let it stop at the baiting level. If there were one exception in Hibike, it would be perhaps that time when Reina touched Kumiko's nose but that's all. I wondered because that was something intimate in my view, but that was the only thing and Reina saying she's in love with someone else and Kumiko not caring or even rooting for her. That didn't let me further speculate...
... but that further is the key word for me here, together with the word speculation. The possibility already existed. People with potentially lesbian feelings in the real world had already picked up on these little hints and spotted other hints you might not have seen. Hope was raised. The very fact that it never goes anywhere after that is what is so devastating to me about a series like this. Most people also gave up after these moments - around the same time you did when you went checking to see what the fuss was about and no longer saw it as going anywhere - or further down the line - because it never pans out. That is the point. It was never allowed to pan out. Hope was raised and then removed. Crushed even. You may label that hope delusional and many had given up the illusion alongside you but it didn't hit you the way it hit those people.

In that respect many absolutely straight as an arrow stories can even be said to have less impact on those who are looking for someone who resembles them in fiction. In many series there is no one to attach those feelings to and there is not even the slightest hint of representation of the feelings some teenagers develop for their same sex peers. Not finding someone who resembles you can be hard but finding someone who does and then seeing that character be given only one way to deal with those feelings, is numbing. In some respects that may even make all those other series easier to watch and read. In some respects gay characters are better represented in animated series in which there is not even a hint of a gay character because invisibility is a key to being a lesbian in Japan.

You keep saying that Hibike! doesn't owe anyone a spot on the cast. In some respect you are correct. You keen saying that Takeda isn't required to portray lesbians after giving lesbians -and especially potential lesbians- a glimmer of hope that she was doing just that. I'm not saying that you are entirely wrong but I'm also saying that you are downplaying the damage which can be done by raising hopes and then never fulfilling them because the potential was there.

In some sense of this conversation you don't matter. At some level I don't care if you saw the potential for a lesbian relationship to develop or not. You are in a position from which you can begrudge people their speculation because you do indeed have the luxury of having other series. Thousands of years of series. In other forms of art and now manga and anime - yet you complain when people see yuri "everywhere". In some sense your complaints don't matter. Ultimately, you're indeed not my concern.

It may even be helpful that you can see yuri fans as cancer because that is how many queer people are treated in the real world. As a decease to be cured. As a mental condition to be treated. As a phase to grow out of. As a sign of arrested development when they don't. Immature?

You find it unpleasant how the male character and his potentially heterosexual relationship is treated - yet that is the reality for too many gay people every day of their lives. How does it feel? To say it is unpleasant would be an understatement, wouldn't it? Yet that is how many treat gay people and gay relationships. As unpleasant. As unworthy of consideration. As criminal, even, in still far too many places around the world.

If you're still reading at this point - Happy new year. I hope the next one will be a better one but few series will be as good as this show and Hibike is indeed a good show. The friendships and camaraderie are wonderful and so is the way music is incorporated in the story... but there is something missing and not because there weren't any hints that this missing element was there. Could have gone beyond the hinted potential.

Not all girls attracted to girls will be lesbians but some will be. For those who wonder if they might be this series does very little beyond raising the possibility, as a topic for conversation. There are teenagers in Japan who don't know what a lesbian is, but they might be one themselves.
Don't tune out.

If you want to tune out from me that's fine but perhaps you can have the conversation with GenesisAria.

"Yeah i know all that (hence why i said childhood friend aka osanajimi), and i know that Kumiko x Shuuichi is what is in store for the future... But like you said, all it takes is that one extra little push; Kumiko x Reina were getting there too, ... "

Perhaps you're already thinking up a reply. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Someone sitting at home may well think: "...that girl who plays trumpet is interesting and I think Kumiko finds her attractive too, the way she looks at her and wants to get close - but I don't see what everyone else finds so attractive about the boy who switches to trombone, and ... is Taki really that handsome? I don't really see him that way... and I don't think Kumiko does either ..."

What our protagonist Kumiko felt for Reina can be a friendship but it could have been something else.
What Reina feels for Taki is love but it may not be the whole story.

Modified by removed-user, Dec 30, 2016 8:00 PM
 
Dec 30, 2016 8:17 PM
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Kitsu-nee said:
Great music, nice animation, but it felt a bit weird to watch entire performance again, when it's not even the middle of the series. Imo they could have showed shortened version now, it felt a bit too, huh, big for the 5th episode.

But what do I know :v
I'm replying here although you posted your comment in the thread for episode five. Don't read this spoiler until you get to the end of this thirteenth episode.
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Dec 30, 2016 11:10 PM
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GenesisAria said:
VersoSciolto said:
Good opportunity to restate that I came to this series because of the musical instruments in promotion artwork and I thought the way the musical scenes were animated was outstanding. Confirmed by people with experience although a couple pages back someone posted about not being that impressed or moved by the performances....
Yeah i spotted that way back. A keen eye and good reasoning, you don't have to be into music to tell that it was outstandingly accurate animation for the playing of the instruments. I love KyoAni's passion to actually make sure they do all of that stuff right.

I'm not sure if you commented on that before but I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the themes in the chosen musical pieces and how these themes were perhaps echoed in the story and the actions of the characters.

GenesisAria said:
I'm one of the people who was really digging this JK(joshikousei) psychology goldmine, and those two were riding the edge of ROMANTIC, not sexual, partnership.
There is arguably very little sexuality in the Hibike! series itself. Some couples dating or married never show much intimacy openly. I don't think there was any kiss in the main series and one may well wonder how all these kids were ever conceived. The two sisters enter each others' rooms seemingly unsuspecting there might be anyting else but a converation with a cactus to disturb inside. (... and I'm not suggesting incest here.)

What little sexuality may have been hinted is not shown explicitly. It is also not my intention to suggest that relationships must be sexual or that same sex attraction can only be seen as or interpreted through physical manifestations. In other words. Having sex or showing sex isn't the only way to look at yuri or identifying -potential- yuri relationships. Or intimacy in general.

Contrary to what has been suggested, however, I do think Kumiko was physically attracted to Reina. It is made ambiguous through her self image issues. The moments Kumiko stares at other girls -and other girl's breasts in particular- can be explained away using that point of view. An issue I'm not trivializing because -unfortunately- breast size concerns are a real issue for many teenage girls. It is how Kumiko was introduced to us on her first morning preparing herself before heading off to the trains and her first day of high school.

Last season the comment was frequently made that girls and women in Japan bathe together and change in communal dressing rooms before entering or leaving the shared baths and hot springs. Some modesty can still be expected in such environments when fully nude. I'm not suggesting that certain behaviour can automatically be interpreted as evidence that a girl is a lesbian because I am aware that in some respects Japan is different from many places around the world. It was cited to diffuse any suggestion that -for example being asked to tie someone's hair and complying, or holding hands in public and semi-privacy- should "automatically" be seen as evidence of romantic attachment or interest.

I am suggesting, however, that some girls entering those baths do not go there just to clean themselves. One of the manga I referenced last year was mentioned primarily for a different point - Love, death and dying for someone. In contrast with life, living for a partner you chose to live with and love. As a profession of that love. The manga was also mentioned for a second reason however. Namely the fact that one of the women in that series enters a public bath house to have a look at a woman in whom she has become interested. It is revealed that both are aware of the situation. One as the aware object of desire. The other as the seductress.
Even if girls happen to find themselves in the company of other naked girls or girls undressing in front of them -as Kumiko this season- they don't necessarily check bodies because of self image and comparison.
There was no sexual relationship but there was physical attraction and that wasn't restricted to those moments in the bath house. Some of the scenes on the train are in my mind examples of friendship but I'm not sure that was the only thing I saw in all those moments Kumiko spends in Reina's company.

I'm not convinced that wasn't intentional on the part of the creators of this story. There is a lot of ambiguity.

Modified by removed-user, Dec 30, 2016 11:21 PM
 
Dec 31, 2016 2:45 AM
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A significant amount of the episode was flashbacks to earlier events in the story, but I still enjoyed the other parts of the episode. Some nice emotional scenes, plus we get to hear a performance by the band!

The season as a whole was surprisingly good; I found the themes of living life without regrets pretty inspirational (even if some may find it cliched). Some characters fell by the wayside as new ones were introduced, but we actually got to explore Kimiko's character and her relationship with her sister more.

All in all, it was a pretty solid season.
Pie is delicious.

 
Dec 31, 2016 12:19 PM

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But it's probably time for me to move on! Had a lot of fun in Hibike! Euphonium threads and now I am really glad that I came to love this anime which in the end made it into my all time top 10 overtaking anime such as Hunter x Hunter (2011) and even Chihayafuru 2 in the process.

I really hope we get to see more of this anime. I heard Takeda is planning to write sequels due to the huge reception it got and I will hope to own a copy of my own of her novels when they are released in North America. No matter what others say, and even if the disc sales don't live up to the expectations, know that it is really appreciated in most of the Japanese sites such as anikore, bangumi, niconico etc.

I am always attracted towards character-driven stories so Hibike! will hold precious place in my heart and Kumiko will remain one of my most favourite female characters. Now I will look forward to Gintama next season, which is presumed to be the final season. I will miss Gintama the most when the show is over because it is at the pinnacle of everything that is great about character-driven stories, at least for me. :)

 
Dec 31, 2016 12:59 PM

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Weird ending. It wasn't bad in terms of slice-of-life but it was hardly satisfying for a conclusion.
The previous episode felt more like an end..

And that would-be confession from Kumiko to Asuka felt kinda out-of-place (I know she meant it only as a friend but still). Maybe it was because they started developing Asuka's character so late into the game that she never grow onto me as a character as Kumiko, Reina or Mizore for example, but I hardly felt anything during her scenes. That's not to say I don't like her or something but they could try to develop her better, starting with making her showing at least some emotions from time to time (and nope, that one little moment of happiness when she heard about her father message was hardly enough)

Lots of flashbacks and boring random music scenes didn't help either. I understand they tried to imitate an atmosphere of passing and moving on as graduation took place but I wouldn't certainly call it satisfying closure.

All-in-all, this series had its highs and lows and I really enjoyed it. I take it as great piece of slice-of-life but contrary to the first season it lacked something that would tie everything happening together towards some common theme.

Therefore it's 7-8 for me (would be 8 if for the better ending), an anime well-recommended to watch.
Judging both seasons, the first one flowed a bit better as a series but the second one had some great scenes and subplots.

Edit: Yeah, I think now they have everything prepared for romance-centered and closure-oriented upcoming movie like they did with Tamako Market.
Modified by Mich666, Dec 31, 2016 1:03 PM
 
Dec 31, 2016 5:45 PM
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VersoSciolto said:
Kitsu-nee said:
Great music, nice animation, but it felt a bit weird to watch entire performance again, when it's not even the middle of the series. Imo they could have showed shortened version now, it felt a bit too, huh, big for the 5th episode.

But what do I know :v
I'm replying here although you posted your comment in the thread for episode five. Don't read this spoiler until you get to the end of this thirteenth episode.


Same warning as before but using the opportunity to copy one of my earlier comments here as another thought on the matter of options and possible explanations.
[/quote]
 
Dec 31, 2016 5:49 PM
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shanimebib said:
... and even Chihayafuru 2 in the process...
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Not to take anything away from Hibike. (... and several childhood friends, no less.)
 
Dec 31, 2016 11:35 PM

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Kumiko x Asuka ship? lolol

At the end, it was pretty evident like mid-season that ships weren't going to be the main focus (or even focused at all). At the last scene with Asuka it was clear that the show was all about the journey and the adventures of the whole band.

Still I'm disappointed but not surprised that the Kumiko x Reina ship didn't get sailing. Hell, Reina almost became unimportant in the final episodes (whatever happened to wanting to be special and fulfilling Taki's wife's dying wish of getting gold and not accomplishing it)??? She didn't get a lot of attention in the last episodes and that's probably the weakest part of the series. Still absolutely loved the show though, I hope Reina gets some sort of conclusion with the OVAs, optimistically speaking. I knew about the LN end with the KumikoxShuu ship but I'm glad KyoAni just left all the big ships open ended lol. I'm gonna miss this show.
 
Dec 31, 2016 11:40 PM
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... so in the end no one ended up shot because of your disappointment?
 
Dec 31, 2016 11:43 PM

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VersoSciolto said:
... so in the end no one ended up shot because of your disappointment?


At the end of the day bro we're all being baited by KyoAni no matter who you ship or even if you ship at all. The open ended nature of the final episode just made everything so complex, yet so simple. It's like shipping paradox, technically any ship is possible at this point but realistically there aren't any ships. It's all fun and games in the whole scheme of things but shit I was really hoping for a ship :( Well the show never focused on romance anyways, but still :((
 
Dec 31, 2016 11:46 PM
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Yup. Know those feelings. Boat loads of them. By any other name.
 
Dec 31, 2016 11:51 PM

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VersoSciolto said:
Yup. Know those feelings. Boat loads of them. By any other name.


I, along with an entire internet community, fell hook, line and sinker to this trap and didn't bother getting out of it. Ships are built out of hope and irrationality, but that's what makes it fun I guess. Hibike S2 challenged me a lot watching it, considering Kumiko x Reina was like the first ship I've ever shipped watching anime lol.

http://imgur.com/a/utb8L
This explains things well from a shipper's point of view.
 
Jan 1, 2017 12:00 AM
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Certainly one way of looking at it.
I still hold on to the idea that Reina will study music abroad and Kumiko shares an apartment when they're there - in Paris or Prague - but I may already be falling back on a different story for that scenario. Maybe Asuka can write an arrangement of Rachmaninoff for trumpet and Euphonium for them.... :)
Modified by removed-user, Jan 1, 2017 12:03 AM
 
Jan 1, 2017 12:25 AM

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VersoSciolto said:
Certainly one way of looking at it.
I still hold on to the idea that Reina will study music abroad and Kumiko shares an apartment when they're there - in Paris or Prague - but I may already be falling back on a different story for that scenario. Maybe Asuka can write an arrangement of Rachmaninoff for trumpet and Euphonium for them.... :)

Nice headcanon you have there. Ships are basically built on the emotions and feelings of all of us yeah.

Happy fucking new years.
 
Jan 1, 2017 12:49 AM
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Head canons - have to have them, but you have to be careful at whose head you point them... especially in cases involving disappointment.

Take it easy and Happy New Year to you too.
 
Jan 1, 2017 10:41 AM

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was a great ep but needed more Reina
 
Jan 1, 2017 2:44 PM

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VersoSciolto said:
I'm not sure if you commented on that before but I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the themes in the chosen musical pieces and how these themes were perhaps echoed in the story and the actions of the characters.
I'm not really into classical music, just neoclassical, so i can't really say. I don't know any of the pieces by name.

GenesisAria said:
I'm one of the people who was really digging this JK(joshikousei) psychology goldmine, and those two were riding the edge of ROMANTIC, not sexual, partnership.
There is arguably very little sexuality in the Hibike! series itself. Some couples dating or married never show much intimacy openly. I don't think there was any kiss in the main series and one may well wonder how all these kids were ever conceived. The two sisters enter each others' rooms seemingly unsuspecting there might be anyting else but a converation with a cactus to disturb inside. (... and I'm not suggesting incest here.)

What little sexuality may have been hinted is not shown explicitly. It is also not my intention to suggest that relationships must be sexual or that same sex attraction can only be seen as or interpreted through physical manifestations. In other words. Having sex or showing sex isn't the only way to look at yuri or identifying -potential- yuri relationships. Or intimacy in general.

I'm not convinced that wasn't intentional on the part of the creators of this story. There is a lot of ambiguity.
I already said romantic. Scientifically most girls are technically bi (and more capable to gain sexual pleasure from more things, such as other animals mating), and either morals or preference guides them to being mostly straight; it's not just about lesbian or not lesbian. I'm not sure what brought up the baths, that's a normal thing that happens all the time in japan. Most people watching an anime like this know absolutely nadda about JK psychology, or psychology in general. Stuff like touching and comparing boob sizes or girls talking on about breasts is common everywhere in the world lol. Girls talk about breasts more than guys talk about any part of girls' bodies. There wasn't much sexuality in Eupho no, but that bears no affect on romance. If japanese culture wasn't so much about reservation and stuff, there'd have been a lot more hugging and touching.

And yes, it was definitely done intentionally. There's no way they'd have applied his much psychology and not have thought it through.
Modified by GenesisAria, Jan 1, 2017 2:48 PM
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Jan 1, 2017 6:44 PM
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If I understand your comment correctly we are in agreement that the conversation isn't as simple as reducing our assessments to whether the characters are "lesbian or not lesbian".

By extension we may well be somewhat in agreement that the series can't easily be categorised with -or without- a yuri tag based exclusively on the criteria: who expressed love for whom; or based on the gender of the cast to see who is currently dating whom - who might date whom in the future.

Last season the comment was frequently made that girls and women in Japan bathe together and change in communal dressing rooms before entering or leaving the shared baths and hot springs. At the time, bathing together was cited to diffuse any suggestion that -for example being asked to tie someone's hair and complying, or holding hands in public and semi-privacy- should "automatically" be seen as evidence of romantic attachment or interest.

It is the automaticity of the dismissal I attempted to address with the example manga. Girls in Japan frequently hold hands but not all those girls holding hands will be heterosexual - that's where I was going with that train of thought. It is not uncommon for characters in yuri stories to use the seemingly accepted practice of girl friends holding hands in public to hold hands in public with their girlfriends - the line used often something like this: "no one will suspect we are on a romantic date because other girls who aren't dating romantically hold hands in public too."

The series addresses several realistic issues which are concerns for girls going through puberty. Arguably, sexuality isn't really addressed. Arguably even romantic attraction is not given full scope by not addressing those girls who don't fall within the binary categories. The series offers just one option to girls who develop attractions to their same sex classmates.
Would it be fair to say we agree on that point?

Explicit depictions of sexuality would have put the creators of the series into a slightly different discussion. I can wonder if a series in which teenage girls are depicted as having no sexual desires is a good or entirely realistic portrayal. I can wonder if women and young girls are depicted this way because they aren't supposed to have sexual desires. Not to suggest they all must but this is a large cast while the highlighted characters who are in confirmed -heterosexual- relationships don't exhibit any romantic forms of intimacy or much passion towards each other. That too has been suggested as done deliberately - by design as a core focus of the creators. The fan service issue which only briefly came up this season for the way they animated the pool episode.
I mentioned it but can put it aside when addressing the romantic aspect of the attractions between the young women depicted - or the supposed lack thereof.

In previous comments I tried to attach themes and characters from the performed music to the themes and characters in Hibike! - which I believe to be a modern fable as much as a slice of life animation. Not just musical references - the play Undine was specifically mentioned in the school festival episode and I wondered why it was name dropped. Reina was compared with a Yuki-onna and I've wondered why ever since. Possible connections with an other ghostly apparition she enacted and the film Kwaidan and Lafcadio Hearn.

As far as music is concerned, Ravel's Daphnis and Chrloe was apparently dropped for the animation of certain scenes -possibly for reasons to do with technical ability and age of the students but perhaps because the themes didn't match the objectives of the animators. A piece of music, Rydeeen by YMO, was used and I wondered if there might be connections to "Confessions of a Mask" or Yeats references based on other music created by that band. Crescent Moon Dance is the English title given to an other of Kitauji's performance pieces, a fictional piece by a Japanese composer in-universe and written for the series to become one of the highlights of the staged competitions. I've wondered if there might be a connection to the poetic allusions in Murasaki Shikibu's words via that moon reference. Things like that. Maybe someone else will come along to address those.
Modified by removed-user, Jan 1, 2017 7:30 PM
 
Jan 1, 2017 8:16 PM

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@VersoSciolto
Oh, no it definitely doesn't need a yuri tag. There's lots of anime with lesbian chars in which the anime is not labelled as yuri. I was merely talking about the psychological aspects, and what's going on between the lines.

As far as "who might date whom" anybody reading the source material knows the answer already.

Last season the comment was frequently made that girls and women in Japan bathe together and change in communal dressing rooms before entering or leaving the shared baths and hot springs. At the time, bathing together was cited to diffuse any suggestion that -for example being asked to tie someone's hair and complying, or holding hands in public and semi-privacy- should "automatically" be seen as evidence of romantic attachment or interest.
Communal changing happens in public pools all around the world.

It is the automaticity of the dismissal I attempted to address with the example manga. Girls in Japan frequently hold hands but not all those girls holding hands will be heterosexual - that's where I was going with that train of thought. It is not uncommon for characters in yuri stories to use the seemingly accepted practice of girl friends holding hands in public to hold hands in public with their girlfriends - the line used often something like this: "no one will suspect we are on a romantic date because other girls who aren't dating romantically hold hands in public too."
As i said, most girls are naturally pansexual, whither they choose to be bi or or hetero or homo. In places where it's taboo to touch other people, then stuff like hand-holding happens more often. Social stigmata cause people to keep their distance, but in actuality people just want to touch eachother and be touched by people they like. If you've watched any pocky games before, girls and guys alike often don't have huge problems touching lips in the process, or do it for the dare. In places like Japan, the subtle difference between friendship hand-holding and lover hand-holding is understood - the difference is emotional (not in the appearance).

I can wonder if a series in which teenage girls are depicted as having no sexual desires is a good or entirely realistic portrayal. I can wonder if women and young girls are depicted this way because they aren't supposed to have sexual desires.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I really don't know any of that music, and lazy to look it up haha.
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Jan 1, 2017 8:40 PM
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I'm suggesting that a series dealing with the same sex attractions between high school girls deals -in one sense of that word- with yuri related themes. The exploration of these yuri related themes isn't restricted to the question who the depicted girls end up dating at age sixteen. The question who Kumiko starts dating at the end of the story can be answered when going by the collection of short stories tagged on as the fourth volume of the novels - of the source materials - but not based on the animated series. That isn't the exclusive indicator of her orientation.
Are you not saying something similar to that?

The point about the public baths was not my argument but mentioned here as an example of someone else's rebuttal - mentioned because I don't find it persuasive when someone uses it to dismiss that certain specific actions by Kumiko and Reina might have been signs of romantic attraction between those two specific young women.

I'm talking about the expectation of chastity and the assumption that Japanese women don't -or aren't supposed to- have and enjoy sex. I'm suggesting that a series in which their sexual desires aren't depicted at all can't be considered the whole picture in a series aiming to be as naturalistic in its recreation of the real world.
I'm also suggesting that raising this point is a double edge sword because it might give the impression that sexuality is all that matters or that sex is the only way to see same sex attractions or high school students in Japan in this series or anime in general.

You mentioned the point of intimacy and I agree with that. I'm curious why Rikko needs to depicted as not interested in kissing her boyfriend, Gotou, for example, in the specials and not all in the main series. That's not to suggest that teenagers can't be shy or shouldn't be shy about kissing ... but it is a large cast.
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Jan 2, 2017 4:42 AM

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Strange sort of season.

All the 'big' moments (the prefecture performance + that lovely conclusion) felt fantastic but everything else was rather underwhelming. The first four episodes were literally pointless, even if it eventually leads to something significant down the road. Feels like it could have been dealt with in quicker fashion. Same goes for Asuka's side story.

Genuinely surprised the second season rates higher than the first. Still overall it's a nice show when it's at its best. It leaves me wanting more at least. Felt a bit like a 'bridging' season.
 
Jan 2, 2017 4:48 AM

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@VersoSciolto
I don't know what to say to that, you use a lot of thick language. I don't know why sexuality is a topic; it isn't, and never was, relevant to this series.

Most japanese media that shows women having sex focus on pleasuring the woman more than the man, or rather the man(or viewer) getting pleasure from exciting or climaxing the woman. So i have no idea where the "not supposed to enjoy it" came from, though it does sound vaguely familiar - maybe it was a thing in the past, but it's not anymore.

But again no sexual anything was even slightly referenced in this anime, so it shouldn't be a topic.
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Jan 2, 2017 5:48 AM

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Did anyone notice the brilliant touch of how the piece given by Asuka to Kumiko was the anime title itself? It basically sums up how every character in the show 'sounds' their emotions through their instruments. What a nice way to sum up the show.
 
Jan 2, 2017 1:49 PM

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Great show!!! I wish there was more, but that was a great place to end it.

8/10
 
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