l0li_m0e_ya0i said: Why do people actually think that if a show is not specifically categorized as ecchi that it shouldn't have fan-service? Yet no one has anything to say about fantasy, action, and horror shows having a sex scene every thirty minutes? But yeah, those anime should have fan service if the original creators intended for it to be that way. If someone has big boobs, people say something about it, and can even give them a nickname because of it. This is done like all the time in not only anime, but in real life too. What is really horrendous is that whoever made this article is actually making such a big deal about it. the stupidest part about this article... and honestly the poll itself is that Japan actually has no label for sexual fanservice in anime. it is us westerners who decide what an ecchi anime is if you walked up to a japaense person and said "i like ecchi anime" they'd probably think you meant what we westerners call hentai, since "ecchi" in japan is used as slang for sex despite having the same meaning as "hentai" which obviously means "perverted" there is no actual such thing as an ecchi anime |
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| Trigglypuffs be huffing and puffing once again |
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No they were just to prevent government censorship after a large series of risque films that released during the 1920s in addition to a series of scandals that caused people to question the morals of Hollywood. In particular there were 37 states that were planning on introducing 100 censorship bills so they created their own code to prevent that from happening. Which eventually after it became outdated for obvious reasons was to some extent scrapped in the 1960s for the one we have today. Except who defines or how is the line defined before something goes from casual to obscene? By the exact same logic fanservice in anime should be fine for anybody in moderation as long as the industry says they're censoring themselves. Which some stations actively do, granted I can't say I'm a fan but that's why I enjoy the option of uncensored versions. But the main point I was getting across is movie ratings are terrible and the defining line is really vague which makes it good concept in theory but outdated and odd in practice. Except it does apply to today like I said the example with LGBT issues with unjustified content ratings. Here's 2 articles that I'm much too lazy to summarize. The first being several cases of homophobia the second covering the issue with violence versus sexual content and language. 1. 2.. But one thing I do want to point out from the second, for some reason western parents are much more confident kids can sort out violence themselves but when issues of swearing or sexual content are on the table they assume they're idiots. |
GamerDLMOct 16, 2016 10:43 PM
Otaku-Gunso said: TheBrainintheJar said: The problem with fanservice is that it is, by definitions, only for the fans. It seeks to please the fans by giving them what they want regardless of whether they contribute. Imagine if Pantera suddenly put a killer groove riff in their cover of "Planet Caravan". That's fanservice since it's what the fans want, but it goes against the nature of the song. I'm all for sexy art, but panty shots and boob shots rarely contribute anything. You can gain the same effect by making a bundle of posters. I personally like figures myself and I'm sure that counts very much as "fan service" :p I'm fine with figures, but they're outside the story. They don't exist in the anime, but merchandise designed for fanservice. I don't want the sexy stuff clog the anime. Produce an artbook full of sexy shots? Fine with me. _Ako_ said: TheBrainintheJar said: I'm all for sexy art, but panty shots and boob shots rarely contribute anything. You can gain the same effect by making a bundle of posters. Because they don't check Hentai... There's more in Hentai than Ecchi/fanservice shit you'll find, of course the effects is different, but the flush of Dopamine is also different. You don't like Fanservice then don't click the bait "Ecchi" tag on every series you'll watch and later complain about it. If you know that there's a fan service/panty shot, that is being repetitive, drop it, don't continue watching it for the sake of you ranting about it. If you think that anime is full of fan service then don't watch any anime, simple as that. I get the fact that a lot, or possibly most series nowadays have fanservice or constant Dopamine rush scenes. But there's still some series that just shows "cute" or "moe" fanservice, and they're still hatin' it... God, is there a manual to "How to please EVERYONE in anime medium", because of there's one I'll print a bunch of it, and give it to any production out there. I think the only sensible respond to "If you don;'t like it don't watch it" is 'if you don't like criticism don't watch it'. |
TheBrainintheJarOct 17, 2016 1:37 AM
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Otaku-Gunso said: I personally like figures myself and I'm sure that counts very much as "fan service" :p I'm fine with figures, but they're outside the story. They don't exist in the anime, but merchandise designed for fanservice. I don't want the sexy stuff clog the anime. Produce an artbook full of sexy shots? Fine with me. _Ako_ said: Because they don't check Hentai... There's more in Hentai than Ecchi/fanservice shit you'll find, of course the effects is different, but the flush of Dopamine is also different. You don't like Fanservice then don't click the bait "Ecchi" tag on every series you'll watch and later complain about it. If you know that there's a fan service/panty shot, that is being repetitive, drop it, don't continue watching it for the sake of you ranting about it. If you think that anime is full of fan service then don't watch any anime, simple as that. I get the fact that a lot, or possibly most series nowadays have fanservice or constant Dopamine rush scenes. But there's still some series that just shows "cute" or "moe" fanservice, and they're still hatin' it... God, is there a manual to "How to please EVERYONE in anime medium", because of there's one I'll print a bunch of it, and give it to any production out there. I think the only sensible respond to "If you don;'t like it don't watch it" is 'if you don't like criticism don't watch it'. I think that's a good plan, I also like art books myself. Save the REAL fan service for the art books :P |
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| I DON'T even care anymore....fanservice can be good 'n' bad ....there is time and place for everything...some weird weird drag queen over internet bitching about everything doesn't get my muscle stand on it's own....View Whore's always stays View hoe..we still have the same sky, the same water, the same reruns on TV....it changes nothing ...apes are apes.... |
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Otaku-Gunso said: TheBrainintheJar said: I'm fine with figures, but they're outside the story. They don't exist in the anime, but merchandise designed for fanservice. I don't want the sexy stuff clog the anime. Produce an artbook full of sexy shots? Fine with me. I think the only sensible respond to "If you don;'t like it don't watch it" is 'if you don't like criticism don't watch it'. I think that's a good plan, I also like art books myself. Save the REAL fan service for the art books :P Then you get far more detailed art. I saw pictures from the Freezing artbook and it's beautiful. It's not just panty shots. There is attention to detail, to angles - it's a celebration of erotica instead of mere sexual content. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
JustALEX said: flannan said: 1) This is likely to be self-fulfilling prophesy, not some ironclad law. 2) Screw your flawed understanding of economics, and your capitalism. Often enough, capitalism has to be beaten up with standards and regulations to prevent it from making things worse. Please explain why my understanding of economics is flawed. Anime (the product) is mostly consumed by MALES....this is a FACT. And not only is it mostly consumed by males....the demand is greater from males than from females and thus why the majority of anime and anime merchandise is done to satisfy this demand. Am I wrong here? Why should the anime industry change in any way? 1) Supply does not reflect the demand. Because people are stupid. In particular, people making decisions such as "what anime should we make" are stupid. 2) Supply does not reflect the demand. Because anime producers conspire with manga producers and merchandise producers to avoid making complete anime that we want. So that we would buy the manga. And so that they could make more different anime, and thus sell more merchandise. 3) It's alright to make anime that will satisfy males. But a lot of anime will naturally appeal to both genders - you just have to make it not repulsive to the other gender. Sure, you can't satisfy everybody's demands, but it makes economic sense to file off the sharp edges. 4) Much of anime is adapted from manga. Without changing much in the way of fanservice, sexism and most other ways too. Manga has a lot more even demand across the genders, I'm told. No idea what it's like with LNs and VNs. 5) Much of anime is adapted from something else. People who make those things tend to be special people, the ones who didn't follow the more traditional career paths. You should not expect their output to make economic sense - after all, their lives don't make much economic sense too. |
| I don't care. We have more pressing things at hand, like, you know, the state of society and the world. Not that I care about these that much really... :P |
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| I think this is the best summary of this entire topic: http://nichegamer.com/2016/03/01/japanese-representative-refutes-un-suggestion-to-ban-media-depicting-sexual-violence/ |
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_Ako_ said: 15poundfish said: The problem is solved easily if anime avoided genre creep. Fan service doesn't need to exist in anime that didn't have any fan service for 8 episodes. Its annoying because its unexpected and adds nothing to the 8 episodes before the show. Nobody is mad at watching anime that has an ecchi tag and gasping that there is ecchi. You don't have this problem in other mediums, you don't watch a pg-13 action, scifi movie and see scenes that are basically soft core porn. Lel... You're making me laugh.... If no one hates Ecchi how the hell feminist and other shitty things on the internet that blames "fanservice" about the "issues" in Japan, bashing people on the internet just because he/she watches Ecchi series. Or, enjoys fanservice... Dude, are you averting your eyes? Like I said, if you don't like constant dopamine rushed scenes, then don't ever lay your finger to a possibly series that's like that. Either it's CGDCT or just plain Ecchi. Too bad that's there's also don't have a manual in "How to teach easily butthurt anime watchers to watch anime series PROPERLY" because, if there's one, everyone will be happy. I'm sure of that. I get that each season have this kind of pattern, this cycle that other users will make bait threads about fanservice and stuff like this just because one Ecchi series is airing. And they can't handle the fanservice... If you don't like it, watch 2DEEP4ME. If you also don't like it, don't watch anime, heck, anime industry don't give a fuck if you're not watching or your watching. Lel... I'm sick and tired of this constant rant about this... Now I am ranting about it... Lel... The irony I guess.... I'll dig through stuff if there's a manual about "How to teach easily butthurt anime viewers how to watch anime PROPERLY", maybe I can find it because, no matter how you said, if I don't like a series, I wouldn't sit my ass through XX mins just to finish it and rant about it. Personally, I recommend overdosing. Binge-watching shows like Strike Witches, until you get used to the panties enough to not lose all track of plots and moods just because of a glimpse of panties. Going to a nudist beach is a good idea too. |
15poundfish said: GamerDLM said: Except it does apply to today like I said the example with LGBT issues with unjustified content ratings. Here's 2 articles that I'm much too lazy to summarize. The first being several cases of homophobia the second covering the issue with violence versus sexual content and language. 1. 2.. But one thing I do want to point out from the second, for some reason western parents are much more confident kids can sort out violence themselves but when issues of swearing or sexual content are on the table they assume they're idiots. The movie in the first article has bdsm toys in the movie and strong language which warrants a rated R by the MPAA. How a ratings board evaluates the content depends on the rating board and each one usually follow a methodology to come to their conclusions. It makes sense that a rating board evaluates age restricted content differently because each society has different boundaries on what they consider acceptable or obscene. No it features clothing similar to that of bondage style which is a notably different thing to censor. I mean bondage style clothing could just imply lots of leather, and there is also a link in that particular article that compares it to a much more graphic film to say how the system is just inaccurate. You also mentioned it yourself though "it is entirely up to the rating board" which means it can be incorrect, be subject to prejudice, or simply be outdated. To tie it back to anime if a system so clearly flawed is considered completely acceptable I don't see why the anime industry is then criticized because they're more easy going with sexual content than western content raters. If anything the idea of "everybody has their own system and it's fine" should also apply to other cultures. 15poundfish said: GamerDLM said: But one thing I do want to point out from the second, for some reason western parents are much more confident kids can sort out violence themselves but when issues of swearing or sexual content are on the table they assume they're idiots. The reason is because western parents generally want to raise their children to speak politely before they are old enough to understand how to use profanity. Young kids are not smart enough to understand what sex is or do it responsibly. If they did single mothers would not exist or teenage mothers because the consequences of sex require lots of planning and delayed gratification (self-control). Parents know kids are stupid and naive which is why they don't want to expose them to sexual content until they reach a certain age. But you're ignoring the part about how violence is totally cool and a kid can somehow figure out on their own when it is fantasy versus reality. Sexual content doesn't mean only sex, nudity in any kind jumps to an R rating, and really in both this case and with swearing it sems like sheltering a child is just putting off the responsibility until it is much to late. Mostly because the idea of "protect the children" just means that when they get older chances are it's going to hit them all at once and be much harder to deal with when really a good parent should be able to introduce things to them in moderation. Or conversely it should be the parents responsibility to prepare them before and not after the fact, if you assume kids aren't going to have any kind of exposure to any similar content until they're 18 it's the parent who is stupid and naive. Not to mention PG-13 does have swearing depending on how it's used. But the root of this is missing on major factor, PG-13 implies 13 years old or above (not suitable for kids) ie. starting out puberty years. If a pg-13 movie with a ton of gun violence isn't going to turn a kid into a shooter then how is seeing a boob going to suddenly turn them into an unprepared parent. It's just a standard slippery slope argument which rarely works in reality. But it all falls back to cultural importance as I mentioned earlier, in the west violence is cool, but swearing is iffy and sexual content is a huge no. But in terms of the anime industry sexual content is fine in moderation (ie. no genitalia or nipples), violence is fine and time slot probably defines how acceptable blood content would be, and vulgar language is iffy. So basically western ideals shouldn't be applied to censor content released just because a boob or panty shot somehow offends a western viewer. |
| I like fan service but I'm a degenerate. However, I wouldnt mind if they toned it down on the mainstream stuff because it makes it hard to defend anime and I can understand why some people shun it when half the anime shows are showing little girl panties every few seconds. It undermines the truly good shows when they are grouped together as "anime". |
AxBattler said: A little anecdote for no reason other than I feel like it. One of my friends recommended High School of the Dead. It ended up being an anime that I enjoyed less because of the fans service. Since it is the friend who recommended Death Note, Code Geass, FMA amongst other things, the fan service surprised me (I rarely check reviews, especially when I get a straight recommendations from friends). When I told her that her my impression of the show, she commented how she isn't bothered by/even likes anime with fan service now and then. What's interesting to me, isn't she's a girl who do not mind/likes shows ecchi shows (I've met others). But she does care and talk about women's right, equal opportunity and other things that falls under the feminist flag, that I am happy to agree with. Makes me wonder how many female anime fans are really bothered about the characterisation of fictional anime characters. EcchiLordMamster said: the stupidest part about this article... and honestly the poll itself is that Japan actually has no label for sexual fanservice in anime. it is us westerners who decide what an ecchi anime is if you walked up to a japaense person and said "i like ecchi anime" they'd probably think you meant what we westerners call hentai, since "ecchi" in japan is used as slang for sex despite having the same meaning as "hentai" which obviously means "perverted" You're right that "ecchi anime" is a Western made construct, but it's not like they do not recognise anime with great deal of fan service for being a bit different. Reading Japanese reviews of what would be classified as "ecchi anime", the word that pops up the most is "Ero". While not used as often as "Ecchi" in the West, you can find it as a tag in Anikore, as there are lists of "non-H Ero-Anime" which is pretty much like a list of Ecchi anime" (e.g. http://blog.livedoor.jp/monkuso0927/archives/1005449680.html and http://anipla.net/curations/760). oh wow thanks, i'd actually be interested in japanese ppls reviews of anime, especially ones with ecchi... despite anime not being mainstream, there culture is definitely a lot more accustomed to these things, so i wonder how a lack of western bias affects their reactions to anime |
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| Quite personally, I don't mind fanservice in and of itself. But I do prefer to keep it in shows where I know there is going to be fanservice and I'm generally put off when it's forced in for obvious reasons. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Scorching Ping Pong Girls, which literally has a character named “mune-mune,” which translates to “chest-chest.” If you were to localize that, it’s be “boobie-boobie.” I know Japanese. She shows up on screen and it says “Third-year mune mune sempai.” It would be, “15-years-old boobie-boob.” That is horrendous. Would anime lose viewers if women were only gratuitously sexualized in shows like Keijo rather than in shows like Scorching Ping Pong Girls? I don’t think so. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A F*CKING IDIOT The character name is 大宗 夢音 Those two kanji mean "dream" and "sound", respectively. The kanji for "breast" is 胸 "I know Japanese" PFFFFFFFFFFFFT NOT WELL ENOUGH, DUMBASS. |
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origamimissile said: Fabuubz said: I don't speak English by default I love this so much, it works so well :) What do you mean with that exacly? It confuses me |
| "This signature is under construction." ~Fabuubz |
Chiibi said: Scorching Ping Pong Girls, which literally has a character named “mune-mune,” which translates to “chest-chest.” If you were to localize that, it’s be “boobie-boobie.” I know Japanese. She shows up on screen and it says “Third-year mune mune sempai.” It would be, “15-years-old boobie-boob.” That is horrendous. Would anime lose viewers if women were only gratuitously sexualized in shows like Keijo rather than in shows like Scorching Ping Pong Girls? I don’t think so. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A F*CKING IDIOT The character name is 大宗 夢音 Those two kanji mean "dream" and "sound", respectively. The kanji for "breast" is 胸 "I know Japanese" PFFFFFFFFFFFFT NOT WELL ENOUGH, DUMBASS. I haven't seen the anime, but they provide a screenshot: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/auok7snnsvwfa8mppcaz.png Given that it's written in kana, that's probably not the name that is written in her passport, but her nickname. Or maybe a one-off joke. MightySheep said: I like fan service but I'm a degenerate. However, I wouldnt mind if they toned it down on the mainstream stuff because it makes it hard to defend anime and I can understand why some people shun it when half the anime shows are showing little girl panties every few seconds. It undermines the truly good shows when they are grouped together as "anime". Always, always start defending anime by saying that it is a wide variety of totally different shows, not whatever stereotype the other person has. |
TheBrainintheJar said: Otaku-Gunso said: I think that's a good plan, I also like art books myself. Save the REAL fan service for the art books :P Then you get far more detailed art. I saw pictures from the Freezing artbook and it's beautiful. It's not just panty shots. There is attention to detail, to angles - it's a celebration of erotica instead of mere sexual content. Well now that I think of it I have 2 code geass art books and both of which are very beautiful and detailed <3 Yea they should just save the "fan service" for the art books :P |
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flannan said: 1) Supply does not reflect the demand. Because people are stupid. In particular, people making decisions such as "what anime should we make" are stupid. 2) Supply does not reflect the demand. Because anime producers conspire with manga producers and merchandise producers to avoid making complete anime that we want. So that we would buy the manga. And so that they could make more different anime, and thus sell more merchandise. You're confusing "popular demand" with economical demand. From an economical point of view, the offer perfectly reflects the demand, and people making decisions are far from stupid. Sure people that want fan service and otaku-pandering shows are a minority, but they're the one who pay the most and that's the only thing that matters. Having 100,000 people that want fan-service free, gender neutral and story-driven anime doesn't matter as long as they're not willing to pay as much as the 20,000 otakus to support the industry. And people might not like uncomplete shows, but they still buy them, meaning that there is a demand. If people stopped buying unfinished anime series, noone would make them anymore. Demand is not a question of number of people interested, but a question of money available in a market. It's the same as why Japan doesn't care about western viewers. Even though, from the common definition, there's a lot of demand for anime in the west, from an economical point of view the demand (aka the money there is to be made) is anecdotical compared to the japanese market because 90% of western viewers won't be willing to spend any money. If it was true that the supply did not reflect the demand, then the few studios who produce non-male-oriented anime that "fans really want" should make tons of money, because they would be almost alone in a market with high demand and limited supply. And they would have tons of money to produce even more of these anime the next season. But that's not the case, the most profitable anime are still the male-targeted ones. flannan said: 3) It's alright to make anime that will satisfy males. But a lot of anime will naturally appeal to both genders - you just have to make it not repulsive to the other gender. Sure, you can't satisfy everybody's demands, but it makes economic sense to file off the sharp edges. If it was true, then anime that appeal to both genders (because they exist, even if it's a minority) should be the most profitable ones. But that's not the case. If people make more anime that target a specific gender, it's because it sells better. Having fan service means more blu ray sales (for uncensored scenes), and having attractive characters provide revenues from merchandise. If Danmachi did not feature a big-boobed loli with tons of fan service, it would have had more appeal to both genders, but it would not have sold as much. flannan said: 4) Much of anime is adapted from manga. Without changing much in the way of fanservice, sexism and most other ways too. Manga has a lot more even demand across the genders, I'm told. Manga are a perfect example that supply and demand are in good balance. There are much more female manga readers than female anime watchers, which is reflected in the manga offer. There are more shoujo mangas than shounen mangas, and more yaoi mangas than ecchi mangas. If people in the indsutry only cared about male audience because they're stupid as you say, this would not happen. flannan said: 5) Much of anime is adapted from something else. People who make those things tend to be special people, the ones who didn't follow the more traditional career paths. You should not expect their output to make economic sense - after all, their lives don't make much economic sense too. People "making" the content, mangakas, LN authors and animators are not the ones who decide what will be produced, it's the producers and publishers who do. And these people are all businessmen in the traditional sense. They know what will sell, and give money to the content creators that have a chance of being commercially succesful. |
YarrowiaOct 18, 2016 5:43 AM
Yarrowia said: You're confusing "popular demand" with economical demand. Yes, I do not like capitalism, and in particular I dislike the logic that makes capitalists make crap because it sells well. If you're ever in need of minions that will make some better economic system come true, I would gladly help you. Yarrowia said: flannan said: 3) It's alright to make anime that will satisfy males. But a lot of anime will naturally appeal to both genders - you just have to make it not repulsive to the other gender. Sure, you can't satisfy everybody's demands, but it makes economic sense to file off the sharp edges. If it was true, then anime that appeal to both genders (because they exist, even if it's a minority) should be the most profitable ones. But that's not the case. If people make more anime that target a specific gender, it's because it sells better. Having fan service means more blu ray sales (for uncensored scenes), and having attractive characters provide revenues from merchandise. If Danmachi did not feature a big-boobed loli with tons of fan service, it would have had more appeal to both genders, but it would not have sold as much. I doubt the highlighted statement. Sure, female fans do not enjoy male-oriented sexual fanservice. But does it necessarily repulse them? Or does it just serves as a marker "this work is meant for men"? Or do some specific kinds of fanservice repulse them, and others are okay? It's hard to get answers to these kinds of questions, especially because people with the most extreme positions are the ones that tend to reply, and people who are more tolerant/calm tend to keep silent. As a man, I do not mind seeing half-naked men in anime. Or good-looking men in anime. But some scenes make me think "I did not want to see that". And some anime, like Umisho, make me think "just why can't male characters be as good looking as female ones?". Yarrowia said: flannan said: 4) Much of anime is adapted from manga. Without changing much in the way of fanservice, sexism and most other ways too. Manga has a lot more even demand across the genders, I'm told. Manga are a perfect example that supply and demand are in good balance. There are much more female manga readers than female anime watchers, which is reflected in the manga offer. There are more shoujo mangas than shounen mangas, and more yaoi mangas than ecchi mangas. If people in the indsutry only cared about male audience because they're stupid as you say, this would not happen. Yet, anime audience is not as balanced as manga audience. Which suggests something is wrong, and can be profitably made right. Yarrowia said: flannan said: 5) Much of anime is adapted from something else. People who make those things tend to be special people, the ones who didn't follow the more traditional career paths. You should not expect their output to make economic sense - after all, their lives don't make much economic sense too. People "making" the content, mangakas, LN authors and animators are not the ones who decide what will be produced, it's the producers and publishers who do. And these people are all businessmen in the traditional sense. They know what will sell, and give money to the content creators that have a chance of being commercially succesful. Indeed. But the starting pool they have to choose from reflects the biases, problems, and so on of Japanese people in general, and of authors in particular. Hence, anime cannot be much better on matters such as sexism than the Japanese society in general, and the kinds of people who become authors in particular. Also note that some works sold well as doujinshi first, and only became giant franchises later. For example, Fate/Stay Night. |
| Any obnoxious amount of fanservice should be removed from anime and be left for hentai only, it'd improve anime quality a lot, but then again, lot of virgin weeaboos love to fap to ecchi instead of hentai so that would be huge loss of money. |
I luv u |
flannan said: Personally, I recommend overdosing. Binge-watching shows like Strike Witches, until you get used to the panties enough to not lose all track of plots and moods just because of a glimpse of panties. Going to a nudist beach is a good idea too. Personally, I think the second option is much better. The first one will just make a new rant and will continue the cycle again. |
AxBattler said: EcchiLordMamster said: oh wow thanks, i'd actually be interested in japanese ppls reviews of anime, especially ones with ecchi... despite anime not being mainstream, there culture is definitely a lot more accustomed to these things, so i wonder how a lack of western bias affects their reactions to anime I didn't spend too spend a lot of time reading lots of reviews, but of the ones I've glanced through, there aren't much complaint about anime with lots of fan service for having too much fan service. They will usually mention things like "There are boobs everywhere", or it's "Very ero" (I am too lazy to find a better way to phrase it), but generally I do not see much negative language being used to describe it. Some may comment that the story is/isn't interesting, etc., but those are treated separated from the comments about having boobs everywhere. I think that people who do not like that kind of anime would simply avoid it though, and won't bother to review. To me, it makes sense. I've said it before, I am generally not a big fan of fan service especially in genre with a generally "serious" atmosphere, but if it bugs me as I will just drop it as not being my genre. Their existence do not offend me in the least. To complain about it seem to be like complaining that beer is bitter. Just drink something else. I have tried looking up similar subjects in Japanese (using keywords like "What do you think of anime with a high level of ero" etc., but by and large, I do not find much discussions. I couldn't find any major groups with opposing views (or a significant majority of people holding a particular view). That said, I did find -one- thread where they did use the word "ecchi" like it is used in English. However it was a thread where they post about foreigners impressions of the increased fan service in Pokémon (http://blog.livedoor.jp/drazuli/archives/8229249.html). Even if you can't read Japanese, it's still amusing to know that they are Japanese paying attention to Western reactions :) awe man, too bad i can't read much japanese, cause i'd be really interested to see their reactions to western butthurt lol, im ALWAYS saying this to people: "if you don't like it, drop the show" or don't start watching, its not that hard. but no, ppl just want to continue to complain as if there aren't 264624264362 other things in this world they could be doing instead anime is not your life line.... though many seem to believe it is |
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| There's nothing wrong with having a discussion about fanservice in anime or feminism in anime. Both can be pretty interesting topics, with a lot to dissect. It doesn't sound like she's calling to ban all fanservice anime or anything, so what's the problem? |
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AxBattler said: @EcchiLordMamster TBH, I think they are just enjoyings/sharing various light hearted memes and the likes :) I think there is a certain awareness that some foreigners aren't used to certain aspect of Japanese anime characters, but I rarely see any particularly argumentative posts in Japanese anime forum. Even on topic where people do share their opinions, it's rarely strong worded (I have only come across one post where I've seen a poster snap while browsing some Japanese forums). Japanese people tend to be much more respectful than westerners, or at least, that is how they come off.... that is probably why lol |
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| It is dangerous when someone starts a crusade against something, especially (like it or not) in a form of art, entertainment and business, common things like news and even TV series, have the same things that fan- service in anime, music is another example of ambiguous content, but has content for everyone, each has a niche, in anime like any format of enterteiment mainstream, first is based on the wishes of the director, writer and the people to put the monet for do it, and if you begin to deny something or forbid something, you begin to tell everyone how to do things, as a rule and if you do not adhere to this rule will be banned is that what we want in an expression is supposed to be artistic? also then they shall prohibit else, and so, if l give the power to some people to decide how the things should be done, in the end they will decide what's good for me and what's bad based on their judgment and ignoring my freewill, we should stay away from moral conscience, there is fan-service because people consuming, maybe then it is a matter of "educate" the consumer, in the short term, but in te end is not possible, no one have the real right to tell people what to see and think, what to do, more when people have a certain age, maybe instead of thinking tha all the anime must be for children, why do not we get to see what chindren see (and not only in anime), and if you see an anime with content that you do not like express is your right or ignore it, no one forces you to watch anime, but as a form of expression, censor or attempt to do so, can be very dangerous... |
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| Ppl complaining about girls getting sexualized is nothing new. Yh I only like that kind of fanservice when it makes sense and adds to the overal thing. But men have it tough to you know? Men in Anime get judged on when they are sad characters most of the time while girls get a free pass for that for example. |
Oh! alright. Yeah, it's uh.. just something i came up with and thought it was okay |
| "This signature is under construction." ~Fabuubz |
erykisdead said: "Anime Femimist-" Stopped reading it right there. Art should never be controlled. If they don't like then maybe they shouldn't watch it. Not everything can cater to everyone, especially art. I actually did read the whole thing and I still think she needs to just watch better anime ... If you know a series is known for heavy fan service like that then find something else and move on. Its not like someone is pointing a gun to her head and saying she HAS to watch it. Some people just want something to complain about. Jaguer91 said: Any obnoxious amount of fanservice should be removed from anime and be left for hentai only, it'd improve anime quality a lot, but then again, lot of virgin weeaboos love to fap to ecchi instead of hentai so that would be huge loss of money. The 2D complex is strong xD |
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origamimissile said: Fabuubz said: Oh! alright. Yeah, it's uh.. just something i came up with and thought it was okay Well, I think that it's fantastic :) Yeah, uh.. thanks i guess :^) English is a funny language |
| "This signature is under construction." ~Fabuubz |
| as long as ecchi dosent ruin the whole thing and just appears at certain scenes then its completely fine lol it also adds a lil comedy into it, but just not too much otherwise it be kinda dead :/ |
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Kezone said: There's nothing wrong with having a discussion about fanservice in anime or feminism in anime. Both can be pretty interesting topics, with a lot to dissect. It doesn't sound like she's calling to ban all fanservice anime or anything, so what's the problem? Whenever feminists say something, people feel threatened so they respond with aggression and 'shut up you're trying to censor me' crap. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| They got unreasonably upset about the shower scene in Izetta. Instead, I am annoyed with it for ruining all of the above with voyeuristic shots of Finé in the shower and that shot in all the trailers of a pantsless girl riding a giant gun. Um, those were the best scenes in the whole anime. Also, the shower scene wasn't "voyeuristic"; it was straight-up tame. The camera never focused on her breasts or other private parts, and there were multiple shots of just her face. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
CatSoul said: They got unreasonably upset about the shower scene in Izetta. Instead, I am annoyed with it for ruining all of the above with voyeuristic shots of Finé in the shower and that shot in all the trailers of a pantsless girl riding a giant gun. Um, those were the best scenes in the whole anime. Also, the shower scene wasn't "voyeuristic"; it was straight-up tame. The camera never focused on her breasts or other private parts, and there were multiple shots of just her face. I'm starting to think feminists are the one's sexually obectifying women. cook said: Okay, look, she’s a witch. (Spoilers for anyone who didn’t read the title, I guess.) When we first meet her she is levitating on a branch, so this is pretty much the same, right? With two key differences: when she rides the branch she is a) fully dressed, b) sitting side-saddle and c) a child. Apparently growing up means fewer clothes and more phallic imagery. I probably shouldn’t blame them though, they obviously wanted to cram in whatever “manly” items they could to offset all the queer coding of the final scenes and closing credits. Wouldn't "queer coding" (yuri bait) be targeting a male demographic? |
| LOL, I checked out that Anime Feminazi website and saw this... https://www.animefeminist.com/update-why-are-so-many-men-supporting-anifem-and-other-questions/ ^Nice to see the anime "community" does in fact have males selling out their own gender... There IS something worst than a feminist....it's a male feminist. |
My initial reaction after reading the article... Ok so lets for a moment say that this non-Japanese person who has been "educated" in Japanese culture has a good understanding of their culture. Japan is a more collectivist society than America, they aren't as individualistic and self-centered as many Western societies are...in fact much of the world isn't. So if she wants to effect change in any way, she is still going to be seen by Japan as: 1) An outsider and foreigner making demands 2) Someone with a limited perspective on their culture 3) A person with (seemingly) skewed understanding of how supply/demand in markets works 4) Another social activist saying things need to be changed because she says so (as opposed to majority opinion) Demanding "more options" is basically saying "Do things my way because I demand them". Now before anyone pegs me as a misogynist or whatever, let me elaborate on my feelings concerning "fan service" in anime. Personally, I feel many series don't NEED it, and I do feel it can be used as a cheap means to sell figurines or boost anime popularity. One of my favorite series didn't really consist of ANY "fan service" at all, Kuragahime. I've heard it called a girl's anime, but it's one of my favorites and I thought it was fantastically done. Concerning many other animes, the obligatory beach episode, bathhouse scene, and any other lame excuses to skimp on clothing make me roll my eyes. When it's done in a series like Ichigo Mashimaro (believe me, when I finish it and write my review, I am TOTALLY mentioning this) which concerns REALLY young little girls, this is the only time when I say I bring personal feelings into the discussion...and personally I find it absolutely horrendous and sickening. Sexualizing children (not even teens, CHILDREN) is something I feel crosses moral boundaries no matter what culture you are in. Even from a biological standpoint, this can be objectively pointed to as unnatural. Whew...well moving on... So how do we "fix" this? It's very simple...we don't. What's there to "fix"? Anime is supplied to us by another country exclusively, one that may not take the weight of our contributions that seriously. We are partakers from the outside, but some people seem to think this works the same way that America (and some other countries) does...you dislike or are offended by something and you pitch a fit until you get what YOU want or YOU think is right. If people demanded series without all this stuff, it will get made. If the people in the country of origin wanted something different, or the market reacted differently, they would likely adapt. However I seriously doubt they are going to pay attention to a (self-proclaimed, mind you) feminist protestor who thinks that anime needs to be segregated by intention of content, opting for an "either/or" mentality with no hope of blending from what she's saying. Now she did say she doesn't want to impose censorship or banning, just wants "more options". If there isn't market demand for it, why should writers and animators care if she wants more options? I honestly wouldn't care if there was less fan service in anime, in fact I might like some of them more if there was less, but I realize it's kind of futile and whiny to go out and demand something just because I dislike something in it, especially if I'm in the minority. She doesn't realize it, but she's displaying the TEXTBOOK definition of ethnocentricity. In her mind, these Japanese people making the anime are wrong, but she is not. She thinks they need to do something different because she views their actions as wrong. They should then change their M.O. to create more anime that SHE deems as correct simply because that's her viewpoint....regardless of market interest in THE FREAKIN COUNTRY IT'S MADE IN. I am just agitated by SJWs that think they can bully another culture into conforming to their standards simply because they are offended. It's demeaning to the culture, reflects badly on westerners, and is an insult to art and expression universally. TL;DR - Don't tell other cultures how to create THEIR cultural art or what the balance of content should be. You are not a special snowflake, you are a grain of sand on a polluted beach. Don't like it, don't watch it. Need to stop the loli pedos though. Not everything can be Kuragehime ;-) |
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