| @On_the_Lam Would your highness mind giving some examples of a show with a "complex" political theme? Nico- said: On_the_Lam said: If politics are going to have an important role in telling your story, then at least try to make it interesting and logical. What if I told you politics aren't logical at all? Then according to him you belong with us inferior people who lack "brain-cells" |
| @On_the_Lam .... I was basically saying that Anime as a whole doesnt have many shows that are heavy on politics... even if there are, they are mostly a minor element. So naturally, it wont be a developed one. Correct me if Im wrong but I dont think Im saying something so complicated. '_>' |
On_the_Lam said: Anime is a very versatile medium, so you can't say it is the wrong medium for politics. Of course, I mean, look at Akihabara, just know to be home of the middle-aged group. On_the_Lam said: And please don't talk about a genre's popularity, because we all know that moe has been the death of anime for quite some time due to its unpredictable popularity. Ah, the good ol' moe is killing anime. OP, there's only one sentence for you now.  Cause I FREAKING DIDNT RECOMMEND SHIT TO YOU. The politics in anime are dumbed-down because of audience like you OP./s |
Are you finished with your unnecessary salt? Yeah, because it's either 80s anime or 2010s; nothing else in-between. And politics are apparently dumbed down for audiences who complain about it being dumbed down... I can't argue with this logic at all. You didn't suggest a title, but you did suggest I check a different medium with the genre. Are you a fucking pre-schooler to not be able to properly reply to something you willingly started discussing without needlessly throwing an insult or two, or what? Klassical said: @On_the_Lam Would your highness mind giving some examples of a show with a "complex" political theme? No. Klassical said: @On_the_Lam Would your highness mind giving some examples of a show with a "complex" political theme? Then according to him you belong with us inferior people who lack "brain-cells" No, you're the only person I referred to as to lacking brain cells, because you obviously do. I simply generalized so that you wouldn't feel alone. |
archaaiSep 28, 2016 1:13 PM
| 12 Kingdoms talked about how to manage people in more than 12 different styles. As the leader change, the style change. It covers a lot, agriculture/economy, foreign policy/military, civil management, education, legal system, and it's unique leader selection process. But it's not deep enough, interesting but injected with fantasy and drama and it's not modern. There are only a handful of election related manga. Some go wild talk about China invading Japan, the first Japanese president in US. With modern economics like Shima Kousaku, featuring an electronic enterprise, dealing business in Japan, US, China and SE Asia in the 90s. Some explain why you need to Hate Korean and Chinese. Some explain why the Japanese politics fail. But almost all got criticism when it get to the deep core part of the reality. It's bland because producers don't want troubles. If it goes wrong, the whole anime page can be brought down by flaming. If it's to be broadcasted by TV then the TV staff would have to pass it. And some one has to be able to sponsor the risky investments. Audience watching anime seldom ask for these kind of stuff. Political manga are mostly adapted to TV drama or movie instead. |
bottleSep 28, 2016 1:28 PM
On_the_Lam said: Klassical said: @On_the_Lam Would your highness mind giving some examples of a show with a "complex" political theme? No. Boy OP, I don't think I'm the salty on here. On_the_Lam said: I really doubt that people from the 80s would have thought that 30-40 years later +20 year olds would watch cute girls while spooning a dakimura with their favorite loli's face on it. The same can be said about the future of "political anime". lol, you are indeed the reason that politics in anime are dumbed-down. here, I'll let you finish this post off yourself: On_the_Lam said: I can't argue with this logic at all. |
aqing0601Sep 28, 2016 1:16 PM
aqing0601 said: Boy OP, I don't think I'm the salty on here. On_the_Lam said: I really doubt that people from the 80s would have thought that 30-40 years later +20 year olds would watch cute girls while spooning a dakimura with their favorite loli's face on it. The same can be said about the future of "political anime". lol, you are indeed the reason that politics in anime are dumbed-down. here, I'll let you finish it yourself: On_the_Lam said: I can't argue with this logic at all. Ok. I guess I do have to elaborate on every single implied detail. Here you go: The 80s and the 2010s are more or less complete opposites of each other. The 80s is when anime got its reputation for being violent porn, and the 2010s is when it got its reputation for it being "cute girls doing cute things", hence the comparison I made above, which also had nothing to do with the topic, but I touched on it since you mentioned the term "popularity". I DID NOT PRAISE THE 80s, but I do dislike the moe trend. Instead of trying to act slick, why not stop and think for a moment? |
archaaiSep 28, 2016 1:20 PM
| @On_the_Lam LOL smartass. You said i was the only person you referred then you generalized! what a shitty comeback. A little criticism from me is all it took for you to go berserk, i guess I'll stop before your condition worsen. P.S: You really overrate your Intellectual abilities. |
Dr-EyesSep 28, 2016 1:35 PM
On_the_Lam said: Ok. I guess I do have to elaborate on every single implied detail. Here you go: The 80s and the 2010s are more or less complete opposites of each other. The 80s is when anime got its reputation for being violent porn, and the 2010s is when it got its reputation for it being "cute girls doing cute things", hence the comparison I made above, which also had nothing to do with the topic, but I touched on it since you mentioned the term "popularity". I DID NOT PRAISE THE 80s, but I do dislike the moe trend. Instead of trying to act slick, why not stop and think for a moment? OP, as you clearly can see from this picture, the 80s are the age of moe, now is the age of violence./s Anime was the same, is the same and will be the same. It's easy to cherry-pick one or two anime from the era and say that anime has gone downhill when in fact the anime industry is doing better than ever. There is no "moe trend". There is more moe, yes, because there is more anime airing now than the 80s. So more variety of anime will appear when you have 20-30 new anime coming out each season. Also, you wanna hug this shit instead? There is a target audience of anime in general, heck, there's even tags: shounen, seinen, shoujou and jousei. Granted, a shounen could watch a shoujou anime if he wants to. But all shounen anime are normally targeted...well...at shounens. btw, thanks for calling me slick, I appreciated that. |
| Since I don't have an interest in politics, when it's brought up in anime I don't really care about it. Unless it's a really important part of what keeps the plot of the show going. |
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| League of the Galactic Heroes did a spectacular job at the politics side of things.... Spice and Wolf and Maou Maoyuu Yuusha to some extent too. |
Generalizations happen. And, yes, I'd definitely want those hunky men on my pillow instead of pre-school-looking girls. Nico- said: >Do you mind showing me a show with complex politics? >No KEK, you just answered your own question. It's like fucking pottery. Don't expect this answer to change in the foreseeable future where the miserable you still can't find anything. Excuse me, but why would I give someone like him examples, when he keeps coming back for no reason other than to be(passive-?)aggressive towards me just because I dislike his favorite anime? Klassical said: P.S: You really overrate your Intellectual abilities. One can't overrate what he doesn't have. The same thing can be said about you, though. Klassical said: A little criticism from me is all it took for you to go berserk berserk |bərˈzərk| adjective (of a person or animal) out of control with anger or excitement; wild or frenzied: after she left him, he went berserk, throwing things about the apartment. Wow, that's exactly how I felt. Even the example describes exactly what I did after reading your constructive criticism. lul |
archaaiSep 29, 2016 7:39 AM
On_the_Lam said: I didn't ask for political anime suggestions. I was just wondering why politics, WHEN it plays a bigger than average role in the anime, lacks complexity in this medium. I'll take a stab at this. First, anime is a popular medium whose primary target audience is teens and young adults. Stories that present a complex and mature view of political conflict are unlikely to sell well in that market. Instead we get simplistic good-vs-evil shows with little nuance. Zankyou no Terror is a good example of how what could have been an interesting story about terrorism and Japanese politics quickly became a show about bad CIA agents. Second, Japanese politics since the War have been pretty uninteresting. The Liberal Democratic Party has dominated Japanese political life for nearly the entire period except for the recent, brief interregnum when the Democratic Party of Japan won a majority in the Diet. In that context political conflict in Japan is largely between factions within the LDP and does not mobilize popular forces. Japanese politics did have a couple of brief periods of intense conflict during the 1960s, but you'd never know it from watching anime. Sakamichi no Apollon stands out because it briefly references the rather violent student protests from the early sixties. But once those events are mentioned it goes back to being a coming-of-age story about high schoolers. Bartender has an episode that portrays two left-wing film makers later in life where they lament how success has diverted them from their ideals. I've watched many of the shows that cater to older viewers and can only identify these two as having any contact with that rather tumultuous period in postwar Japanese history. Commercial pressures obviously have a lot to do with this. A show about sixties protests against American bases by Communist and other left-wing student groups is simply not going to be viewed warmly by production committees. That's especially true in the current climate which is dominated by right-wing politicians like Abe Shinzo. The rise of serious military threats to Japan from China and North Korea also discourages the portrayal of internal political conflicts. The one glaring exception to this notion concerns Okinawa where the combination of American efforts to expand its facilities there and the abuse of local women by American military personnel have led to a new round of protests. The murder of a 20-year-old woman this spring allegedly by a former American Marine brought thousands of people into the streets. Yet the only show I've seen which touches on these long-standing tensions on Okinawa is Blood+, which has strong anti-American themes. (At one point the enemy in the show, the monsters called "chiropterans," meet at the White House with obvious stand-ins for Donald Rumsfeld and Condolezza Rice to develop plans to take over the world.) I think also that Japan exemplifies what Almond and Verba would call a "subject" political culture, one that discourages active citizen participation and reinforces authoritarian norms. There are shows that directly confront these beliefs like Kill la Kill and Gatchaman Crowds Insight, both of which have strong anti-fascist themes, but they are pretty rare. In the end the shows with more sophisticated political themes generally focus either on historical elite conflicts like Hyouge Mono or, as in the case of Monster, personalized conflicts set within a broader political context. In neither case are the fundamental structures of Japanese politics questioned or threatened. |
SeijiSenseiSep 29, 2016 10:28 PM
| @On_the_Lam Jin Rou has police politics as background to its story and it was structured to be a film but then decided to make an anime out of it but it still has the feeling of a film. |
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SeijiSensei said: On_the_Lam said: I didn't ask for political anime suggestions. I was just wondering why politics, WHEN it plays a bigger than average role in the anime, lacks complexity in this medium. -snip- Now that you mention the '60s protests, doesn't Jin-rou take inspiration in the opening scene from those protests as well? (Not pointed at you SeijiSensei) If anything, when it comes political reality, perhaps Veep is one of the few shows that portrays politics realistically; Show Me A Hero also portrays how politics are done, which why often times shows like those are underwatched or found boring. As SeijiSensei said, the anime market target audience is largely teens and young adults, which hardly anyone would understand if a complex issue were showcased. |
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| OP ffs, are you under the impression every anime is either Oni Chichi or GATE? Seinen is a thing, try looking into it. |
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zal said: Complaining about lengthy conversations in politics? That's kinda contradictory. Just wait for Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu (2017) to make politics in anime great again. Politics in LOGH is badly done... Not as bad as the military aspect of that show, but still very stupid. SeijiSensei said: On_the_Lam said: I didn't ask for political anime suggestions. I was just wondering why politics, WHEN it plays a bigger than average role in the anime, lacks complexity in this medium. I'll take a stab at this. First, anime is a popular medium whose primary target audience is teens and young adults. Stories that present a complex and mature view of political conflict are unlikely to sell well in that market. Instead we get simplistic good-vs-evil shows with little nuance. Zankyou no Terror is a good example of how what could have been an interesting story about terrorism and Japanese politics quickly became a show about bad CIA agents. Second, Japanese politics since the War have been pretty uninteresting. The Liberal Democratic Party has dominated Japanese political life for nearly the entire period except for the recent, brief interregnum when the Democratic Party of Japan won a majority in the Diet. In that context political conflict in Japan is largely between factions within the LDP and does not mobilize popular forces. Japanese politics did have a couple of brief periods of intense conflict during the 1960s, but you'd never know it from watching anime. Sakamichi no Apollon stands out because it briefly references the rather violent student protests from the early sixties. But once those events are mentioned it goes back to being a coming-of-age story about high schoolers. Bartender has an episode that portrays two left-wing film makers later in life where they lament how success has diverted them from their ideals. I've watched many of the shows that cater to older viewers and can only identify these two as having any contact with that rather tumultuous period in postwar Japanese history. Commercial pressures obviously have a lot to do with this. A show about sixties protests against American bases by Communist and other left-wing student groups is simply not going to be viewed warmly by production committees. That's especially true in the current climate which is dominated by right-wing politicians like Abe Shinzo. The rise of serious military threats to Japan from China and North Korea also discourages the portrayal of internal political conflicts. The one glaring exception to this notion concerns Okinawa where the combination of American efforts to expand its facilities there and the abuse of local women by American military personnel have led to a new round of protests. The murder of a 20-year-old woman this spring allegedly by a former American Marine brought thousands of people into the streets. Yet the only show I've seen which touches on these long-standing tensions on Okinawa is Blood+, which has strong anti-American themes. (At one point the enemy in the show, the monsters called "chiropterans," meet at the White House with obvious stand-ins for Donald Rumsfeld and Condolezza Rice to develop plans to take over the world.) I think also that Japan exemplifies what Almond and Verba would call a "subject" political culture, one that discourages active citizen participation and reinforces authoritarian norms. There are shows that directly confront these beliefs like Kill la Kill and Gatchaman Crowds Insight, both of which have strong anti-fascist themes, but they are pretty rare. In the end the shows with more sophisticated political themes generally focus either on historical elite conflicts like Hyouge Mono or, as in the case of Monster, personalized conflicts set within a broader political context. In neither case are the fundamental structures of Japanese politics questioned or threatened. /salute. I like that answer. Good examples of shows as well. |
ZefyrisSep 30, 2016 3:42 AM
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| Can take the politics more seriously in anime right now then I can take Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich Trump and Hillary |
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Zefyris said: What's badly done about it? It's mainly a representations of ideologies with a 1700-1800 civilization in space but from there to call it stupid there's a gap I don't get.zal said: Complaining about lengthy conversations in politics? That's kinda contradictory. Just wait for Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu (2017) to make politics in anime great again. Politics in LOGH is badly done... Not as bad as the military aspect of that show, but still very stupid. |
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zal said: There is no way, absolutely no way that several billions of peoples scattered across the galaxy can be governed with such pitiful (both in size and in organization) government. That wouldn't even be enough to govern properly something as small as the Luxembourg. They feels like they're governing a small region with a few hundred of thousands of peoples at best. Too much personal matters involved, not enough delegation, not enough peoples involved by far, no consideration for the distance between the governed and the governing, and the decisions often are very shallow with no reflection on the consequences at all.Zefyris said: What's badly done about it? It's mainly a representations of ideologies with a 1700-1800 civilization in space but from there to call it stupid there's a gap I don't get.Politics in LOGH is badly done... Not as bad as the military aspect of that show, but still very stupid. Also the reflection about corruption in democracy and the vision of the modern political system as a whole is candid and feels like it comes from a middle schooler. |
ZefyrisSep 30, 2016 4:10 AM
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Zefyris said: True, kinda hard to believe there was only few cities on each planet and all the scale was poorly handled (like the amount of citizens the republic had after few centuries it exaggerated since it was not humanly viable to go from the first colony to those dimensions, we don't reproduce like rats). However dealing with all the detail and the stuff would have made it even more boring than it already is.zal said: There is no way, absolutely no way that several billions of peoples scattered across the galaxy can be governed with such pitiful (both in size and in organization) government. That wouldn't even be enough to govern properly something as small as the Luxembourg. They feels like they're governing a small region with a few hundred of thousands of peoples at best. Too much personal matters involved, not enough delegation, not enough peoples involved by far, no consideration for the distance between the governed and the governing, and the decisions often are very shallow with no reflection on the consequences at all.What's badly done about it? It's mainly a representations of ideologies with a 1700-1800 civilization in space but from there to call it stupid there's a gap I don't get. Also the reflection about corruption in democracy and the vision of the modern political system as a whole is candid and feels like it comes from a middle schooler. I highly doubt a middle schooler would have the same reflections. Most of the stuff is inspired from history and transported in the future in a bigger scale. There wasn't enough adaptation from the past to the future to be believable nowadays but for the time it was written it's well-done. "no reflection on the consequences at all" Not true, most of the times there are reflections on the consequences. |
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| CGDCT> who wants to watch that serious edgy garbage politics = serious? donald trump HAH! |
| Murder is kind of commonplace as a theme in a lot of edgy shows nowadays, and in most cases they are unrealistic and exaggerated, for better or worse. Berserk had some arcs where it depicted corruption within the royal family very well. As for politics, honestly I feel like Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu is the only show where politics was an intergral part and they still executed it extremely well. Overall in anime, corruption and politics themes are not being used nearly as much as they could be. Producers prefer making school oriented SoL bullshit instead of something more interesting like this. |
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On_the_Lam said: zal said: Complaining about lengthy conversations in politics? That's kinda contradictory. Just wait for Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu (2017) to make politics in anime great again. Lengthy and uninteresting conversations* Literally one of the defining features of politics. A lot of mamorou oshii films and jin rou have pretty interesting politic aspects. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
On_the_Lam said: OneTrueEmiya said: OP ffs, are you under the impression every anime is either Oni Chichi or GATE? Seinen is a thing, try looking into it. Please just take a look at the series that are labeled under "seinen". Your point? Crab-Wrangler said: OneTrueEmiya said: OP ffs, are you under the impression every anime is either Oni Chichi or GATE? Seinen is a thing, try looking into it. I've been waiting to see if anyone said anything about GATE. GATE and its "politics" lmao |
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On_the_Lam said: The question above. I have yet to watch an anime that takes its politics as seriously as western series. GitS 2nd gig is a good example of decent execution of politics, although I did find it quite jarring at times, due to spending too the rather lengthy conversations. Don't bother mentioning Code Geass. It's just "okay" storytelling more than politics themselves, and what I watched borrowed from movies and comics of old so Idk. If you look at Dead Dead Demon's DeDeDeDestruction what you get is very open and opinionated writing, for a lack of better terms, but politics and social commentaries are used not to pretend japan is some kind of fantastic place to live in and it all flows like a charm between that and the slice of life part. |
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