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Sep 8, 2016 12:26 PM
#1
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Mar 2013
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I'd love to like this show, but there were too many questions left in my head without resolution after the show ended. Before giving it a review, for the sake of fairness I'd love it if the community could help me out with some of these questions - especially since it seems others were having problems understanding the show as well.

First off, the quantum mechanics.
I've been interested in the quantum field for some time, so I know enough about it to say that the show botched the science - it seems to use quantum indeterminacy as a plot-point, rendering the "science" part of "science fiction" moot because it just doesn't work. It's not important to the plot, ultimately (it's fictional, after all), but I felt that there were too many severe violations of the premises the plot was based on; ie, the plot was worse off for bringing quantum mechanics into it to begin with. This is why I think it doesn't work, and I'd like people's feedback in case I'm wrong:

I. Multiverse Theory and Dimensional Travel
It is repeatedly impressed on us that the show assumes a multiverse model - an infinite number of dimensions, branching off from the choices (and, ultimately, anything indeterminable) that happen across all dimensions. Dimensions within dimensions branching off into further dimensions.
1. If we are to believe that the multiverse model exists, then there are an infinite number of Harukas, Yuus... and Noeins as well. Yet the show proceeds assuming that there is only one Noein, and only one La'Cryma. At the same time it is perfectly happy making arbitrary numbers of copies of other characters (several Yuus, one extra Kooriyama).
2. You can't "hop" dimensions in a multiverse. You are a subjective observer, and any experiences you have are in your (essentially) "pocket dimension." If you "travel" to a different dimension, your observed reality suggests travel. But really what has happened is that you split off into a dimension in which you traveled to another dimension... dimensions within dimensions branching off into further dimensions... You wouldn't "travel" to other dimensions, you would observe them from your own and thereby establish the existence of the other dimension WITHIN your own. Tobi says as much, and this is the reason why Karasu (and eventually everyone) realize that taking the Dragon Torque back to La'Cryma is futile, since Haruka is no longer a possibility, but a real living thing.
3. The whole notion of disappearing in another dimension is unplausible, since (1) there IS no other dimension - by observing it we validate the other, from our point of view, "bringing" that dimension into our own, making it "real", and (2) even if there WERE different dimensions, the fact that the one in danger of disappearing is being observed in that dimension means they exist and therefore cannot simply disappear - e.g., Tobi is observed by others in Haruka's dimension and can't disappear; Yuu is observed by Ai in La'Cryma and can't disappear, which raises the question of...
4. Why does Yuu start disappearing in La'Cryma despite being observed, especially when others seem to have no problems bouncing between dimensions (namely, the other members of Haruka's gang)? Why do certain Dragon Knights have trouble with the Dragon Torque's dimension, while others do not, even without their lifelines?

II. Observation
1. What IS La'Cryma? Quantum mechanics generally postulates that the waveform of potential collapses into "actuality" upon observation. Observation does not necessarily have to be visual. Since there are people living in La'Cryma, observing one another, their existence is validated internally. It's supposedly a "quantum existence" without a real observer, but this is blatantly false. It is shown to be so near the end, where the dimension continues to exist despite the destruction of the quantum observer/computer. The inhabitants continue functioning just fine. Except for one man in the totally unexplored council-room who mysteriously starts bleeding from his eyes, the dimension is a-OK except for the invasion of Shangri'La. Why would their society fail to realize something like that?
2. Why was the computer in La'Cryma constructed if there was already an observer? The simulator would need an observer to begin with. The thing was BUILT by someone, at any rate. The story is that La'Cryma was reduced essentially to Reizu particles and this computer keeps them alive. But... we're all Reizu particles to begin with. Tobi says as much. And you can't have macro-level things exist on a quantum level according to the exclusion principle anyway, so... what the hell is up with any of this? What is the computer?
3. Why does Noein disappear when Yuu fails to acknowledge his existence? Aside from the assumption under multiverse theory that there are infinite Yuus and infinite Noeins (and by extension, one of those Yuus DOES acknowledge Noein), Yuu's willingness to "accept" what he is observing has nothing to do with the actual act of his observation: by observing Noein, Noein's existence is concretized. Even if every observer from Noein's dimension were to cease existing, he would remain self-aware - his own observer - and, barring that, would remain in people's memories and thereby remain in existence. In the same way that Haruka observes the future and thereby gives it existence (at least in one timeline) whether she "accepts" the fate or not, Yuu's lack of approval for Noein's actions should not invalidate the actual act of observation. His opinion of what he observes has no bearing on the act of observation, and should not cause Noein to disappear. Why doesn't Noein's existence become valid according to the same rules set up for other characters?

III. Other
1.The generic evil corporate guy is right - macro effects don't work the same way as quantum effects. It seems this was a nod from the author/producer that they didn't really know what was going on, but why was this glaring reveal left unexplored? How could the corporate dude know more about the specialists' field than they do? Ignoring all that, Mayuzumi and Uchida appropriately enough say nothing in response (because that would mean the show would have to take a shot at how quantum-macro interaction works), but one would assume Uchida has something to say, considering she wrote the whole report on the interaction herself. I was waiting for this event to lead to something - some realization regarding our reality, quantum existences, Shangri'La - or, anything, really. Why bring this up to begin with if it remains unanswered?

===== ===== =====

Next, the plot. The botched science shouldn't matter so much - It's fiction, and one should be able to overlook the holes in favor of good plot. But I have tons of questions here, too:
I. The Dragon Torque
1. "What IS the Dragon Torque?" is the elephant in the room. Seems like a shoddy Deus ex machina to me. It can teleport people and rewind time, travel to other dimensions... who knows what else it can do?
2. Who is the old man? We get he's some embodiment of the Ouroboros, but then that basically means he is God, of sorts, putting the Deus into "deus ex machina." But, if he is God, then...
3. Who "chose" Haruka to be the Dragon Torque? The Old Man/God says she "was chosen", implying NOT by him alone - potentially some council of sorts. If there are multiple "God's," along the lines of an "ultimate observer" then doesn't this suggest there are multiple Dragon Torques?
4. Why is the most broken power in the universe left unexplored? How many Dragon Torques are there? If there is only one, why? What can it do? Why does she have it? Who gave it her?

II. Haruka and La'Cryma
1. Why does Haruka sacrifice herself at La'Cryma? And why her of all people? That Haruka was not *the* Dragon Torque. There seems to be only ONE Dragon Torque across all dimensions. So what makes La'Cryma-Haruka special amongst all the others?

III. Shangri'La and Noein
1. How the hell does Yuu, in his respective dimension, become Noein, a trans-dimensional god-like being? (1) Yuu experiences a car crash, (2) Yuu is distraught over his loss of Haruka, (3) Yuu becomes a transdimensional being. Something is missing, and it wasn't explained (or I missed it).
2. How does Shangri'La "erode" other dimensions? It seems that all "eroding" means is destruction by way of creepy humanoid spaceships. But wiping out humans does nothing to destroy a dimension. It just kills the humans living in it. And just as there are infinite dimensions, there are infinite La'Crymas in which at least one observer in all of their respective universes exists, and therefore validates the dimension. So what exactly is Shangri'La doing, if not destroying dimensions?
3. Why does Noein decide to destroy all the dimensions? Hasn't the Dragon Torque power been proven to be capable of reversing effects (when Haruka reversed the destruction of the dam)? Isn't the future fundamentally NOT set in stone (wasn't that the point of the show)? And the past, for that matter, especially with the introduction of causal reversing? Isn't Noein, with the Dragon Torque's powers, able to come up with a better solution than "kill everything?"
4. Why does Noein keep observing things when he knows his act of observation brings these things into existence? If he really wanted to wipe out dimensions or avoid pain, he'd (a) stop looking at painful futures, and (b) stop sending creepy spaceships to blow things up, causing more pain ultimately. The act of observation "creating" reality was well-established. The show's antagonist falls prey to being "generic bad guy who wants to destroy everything for no reason" while at the same time failing to realize the significance of what he himself preaches.
5. So is the future set, or not? To me it makes no sense to even have the notion along with multiverse theory - the theory takes a solid stance on future, and that is that the future is always changing, potential - each moment is branching off in infinite possibility. Certain branches will have certain "futures" that are more likely, but never certain, especially when you introduce a wildcard like the Dragon Torque into the equation. But much of the conflict in the plot deals with the notion that the future is, in fact, unavoidable (the whole reason Noein wants to blow everything up). The ending seems to suggest this is not the case and is the single recognizable theme of the show - the future is open to possibility. This is the conclusion the show ends up with. Why would a transdimensional being, along with an entire society based on quantum principles fail to grasp the notion of an indeterminable future (which a 12-year old understands, apparently)?

V. Other
1. If it takes the entire processing power of La'Cryma to perform a fixed reverse calculation, how can a single shitty quantum computer in Uchida's trunk perform the same thing? I have a feeling that I'm recalling this incorrectly, but Atori is sent to Sangri'La using Kosagi's power module (that Kuina left her) somehow...
2. Phone call to the past - what does this have anything to do with the plot? Why was an entire episode focused on this seemingly inconsequential event? It would seem to suggest the past cannot be changed, but what does that have anything to do with... anything? The main conflict is about the future, and the question of whether it is set in stone or not. And with causal reversal and an indeterminable future, we are simultaneously given the idea that the past is as malleable as the future. So which is it? And why does it matter? The audience is given inconsistent vibes on matters that have no bearing on the plot - are things set in stone, or not? And why does it matter?
3. Kooriyama - I think his "death" and consequent reappearance was a huge ass-pull. Despite infinite numbers of Kooriyamas existing across infinite dimensions, one (1) additional Kooriyama spawns, and before the original even gets to die properly (does he even die?), Uchida just thinks, "Oh, no problem, I'll just observe the one who didn't die," despite the fact that she had already clearly observed both - the "native" Kooriyama who was shot, and the "alien" Kooriyama from another dimension.
4. Reversal of causality: that's some serious stuff. We know that causality on a quantum level is a little funky, observers being able to react to things before they actually happen, but how does this affect the plot at all? Why was the concept introduced? This alone has huge implications for the show - if the future isn't set in stone, as the show observers, and if causality can be reversed, then the past is also subject to change, throwing all of everything up into the air and invalidating the entire plot. At that point, one might as well choose one's past and future to create a perfect world.

===== ===== =====

Noein seems to throw the science of "science fiction" under the bus in favor of covering the drama between characters, but then leaves much to be desired in that department as well. I thought this was a great show until I thought about it, and then there just seemed to be too many holes to be palatable. If folks can shed light on some of those holes, I'd appreciate it.
Apr 30, 2017 11:07 PM
#2

Offline
Apr 2017
147
proberen5 said:

3. Why does Noein disappear when Yuu fails to acknowledge his existence? Aside from the assumption under multiverse theory that there are infinite Yuus and infinite Noeins (and by extension, one of those Yuus DOES acknowledge Noein), Yuu's willingness to "accept" what he is observing has nothing to do with the actual act of his observation: by observing Noein, Noein's existence is concretized. Even if every observer from Noein's dimension were to cease existing, he would remain self-aware - his own observer - and, barring that, would remain in people's memories and thereby remain in existence. In the same way that Haruka observes the future and thereby gives it existence (at least in one timeline) whether she "accepts" the fate or not, Yuu's lack of approval for Noein's actions should not invalidate the actual act of observation. His opinion of what he observes has no bearing on the act of observation, and should not cause Noein to disappear. Why doesn't Noein's existence become valid according to the same rules set up for other characters?


I'm glad I'm not the only one who is bothered by this!

proberen5 said:

3. Why does Noein decide to destroy all the dimensions? Hasn't the Dragon Torque power been proven to be capable of reversing effects (when Haruka reversed the destruction of the dam)?


I thought that Haruka just exchanged that area of the dimension (the breaking dam) with that same area of another dimension (an unbroken dam); in that other dimension, the dam did end up breaking, perhaps for no apparent reason (?)...
Thorn_WallApr 30, 2017 11:11 PM

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