| So far most of what shounen/seinen romance I have read or seen conclude their series on a really disappointing note, usually ending it immediately when they kiss (and even then they fucking manage to cockblock by "censor" the kiss scene by a random lightbeam or whatever dafuq) Sometimes I feel like japanese ppl think that a kiss is like the biggest fucking accomplishment of all mankind, and even then they can blur out the crap out of it No dating, no marriage stuff, no hanging out after that, no nothing Like if you follow a manga for 100+ chapters, then I fucking demand a satisfying ending, not some stupid crap like they tend to pull off What do u guys think? |
RobiiiiAug 29, 2016 11:20 AM
| I've seen a couple shounen/seinen romance manga that end in marriage. The problem is, most anime adaptations just don't get that far. |
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Robiiii said: So far most of what shounen/seinen romance I have read or seen conclude their series on a really disappointing note, usually ending it immediately when they kiss (and even then they fucking manage to cockblock by "censor" the kiss scene by a random lightbeam or whatever dafuq) Sometimes I feel like japanese ppl think that a kiss is like the biggest fucking accomplishment of all mankind, and even then they can blur out the crap out of it No dating, no marriage stuff, no hanging out after that, no nothing Like if you follow a manga for 100+ chapters, then I fucking demand a satisfying ending, not some stupid crap like they tend to pull off What do u guys think? dude were talking about an entertainment medium from Japan...JAPAN!! do you know how low their birth rate is? They are clearly not romance type people. |
| you should be thankful if your otp kissed in the end |
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astrozombie84 said: Robiiii said: So far most of what shounen/seinen romance I have read or seen conclude their series on a really disappointing note, usually ending it immediately when they kiss (and even then they fucking manage to cockblock by "censor" the kiss scene by a random lightbeam or whatever dafuq) Sometimes I feel like japanese ppl think that a kiss is like the biggest fucking accomplishment of all mankind, and even then they can blur out the crap out of it No dating, no marriage stuff, no hanging out after that, no nothing Like if you follow a manga for 100+ chapters, then I fucking demand a satisfying ending, not some stupid crap like they tend to pull off What do u guys think? dude were talking about an entertainment medium from Japan...JAPAN!! do you know how low their birth rate is? They are clearly not romance type people. It seems so and im not suprised if some authors genuinely dont know how it is to hang out with a gurl. Im just tired of these fucking disappointing shit really, I feel like i get treated like a kid lol Yet somehow shoujo ones absolutely nail dem endings, which is why this question was born :p Too bad the artstyle isnt appealing to me :c |
| Eroge are technically Seinen. Made by men, aimed at young adults. They definitely know how to conclude romance stories, and deliver fantastic endings. One of the recent examples (there is a marriage proposal scene in the OP too): Other game by same creators (with wedding dress scene in the OP): Every route in both these games ends with marriage. |
| @arcofdream Nice one, thanks. Looks lovely too :3 |
| It all depends on the anime or manga. I haven't really read any romance manga, but I'm sure there's some out there that concludes well and other stuff that doesn't. The author and their main audience are going to be the most important factors. |
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tone work's trademark games are pure love stories, amazing art and amazing soundtrack with some of the best heroines ever. I highly suggest playing their games if you're a fan of romance. Currently they have 3 games, Hatsukoi 1/1, Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai and their new game released 2 days ago, Giniro Haruka. Hoshi Ori and Giniro Haruka are god tier games, Hatsukoi is great also but pales in comparison to its successors. |
Robiiii said: So far most of what shounen/seinen romance I have read or seen conclude their series on a really disappointing note, usually ending it immediately when they kiss (and even then they fucking manage to cockblock by "censor" the kiss scene by a random lightbeam or whatever dafuq) Sometimes I feel like japanese ppl think that a kiss is like the biggest fucking accomplishment of all mankind, and even then they can blur out the crap out of it No dating, no marriage stuff, no hanging out after that, no nothing Like if you follow a manga for 100+ chapters, then I fucking demand a satisfying ending, not some stupid crap like they tend to pull off What do u guys think? In my experience, the Japanese suck at writing romance. I don't know if its because most of them are written by these dudes that haven't even spoken to a girl before and live in their mom's basement or if its like someone said above that the Japanese just aren't very romantic type people either way most of their romance anime/manga suck. Some don't even end with holding hands or officially start dating after a couple years. Its like they end with limp dick most of the time lol. With that being said you can find a few good ones that are amazing romance stories, but they are few and far between. Ones that don't actually rely on cliches and pussyfooting around the romance. |
| I think the idea of 'how we fell in love' is a lot more appealing than the 'what we did when we started dating' aspect. The former builds the characters and makes the payoff a lot more satisfying whereas the latter would be a lot more casual and weightless, almost like a slice of life instead of a romance. I picture two random background characters going throughout their date, holding hands and kissing - the whole package, and us the viewer just watching them do it. There's no investment in that. Even if we had a series where we saw a couple get together, had the depth and understanding to them, where would it end? Where would it be satisfying to end that off, and what could we do with it? There's little drama or interest in that to me, versus the moment we get a confession and we recognize both characters are ready to progress with their relationship. If lets say marriage is the end point what does that make everything in between the moment they form a relationship to that point? It's almost filler-like, prolonged moments until the 'happy ever after'. There has to be something moving the interest forward other than simple dating. To restate what I said previously, I think aspect of 'who are these people and how did they fall in love' is a lot more interesting for a romance driven plot than the 'lets date be intimate with each other' slice of life feeling that we would receive should the latter be fleshed out. There has to be a payoff somewhere and an interest driving the plot to that point. |
KingKatsura said: lot of romance series that go past the kiss/confession/start dating point end up declining in quality. i think the purpose of the genre is to show 2 people falling in love, thats where the romanticism lies. i don't think thats a problem at all. Perhaps the climax tends to drag though, moreso in seinen and shounen. Regardless if they decline in quality and whatnot, just to see how their daily life looks like feels better than just a damn kiss, if even that at all For example for me to see how a tsundere does her daily life things after getting together with someone is already interesting on its own, questions rise like "will she be more dere to him or still rather cold" etc |
| I have no complains for seinen, but for shounen... We'll get another waifu wars after Nisekoi. |
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| The vast majority of mangaka most likely don't have romantic experience. As their are otaku, is hard for them to fit in a society that look at them with disgust. Also if they start working at a young age, due to the harsh program a mangaka has to put up every week, they don't really have a social ife outside their job (is valable for both males and females). So they simply learn about romance from other manga. Now it depeneds on the manga too: if is mainly an action manga, in the last chapters is more importat to finish the final battle and present the post battle situation, than wasting limited panels with too much romance. If the manga revolves around romance, then you will definetly have a conclussion. Once again it depeneds on what the author think is mre suited at the end - I mean, if the characters are in highschool to end the story with them getting together while still in highschool is ok. Is not necessary to allways have time skips... plus if you think that once you get a lover in highschool you will definetly end it up with marriage, then you need to learn a thing or two about romance yourself. Anyway, from a Japanese point of view, the romance in manga is strong and comparable with the dreams about princes and princesses the Westerns have, as Japanese are not particulary romantic peoples by their nature. |
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kronopy said: The vast majority of mangaka most likely don't have romantic experience. As their are otaku, is hard for them to fit in a society that look at them with disgust. Also if they start working at a young age, due to the harsh program a mangaka has to put up every week, they don't really have a social ife outside their job (is valable for both males and females). So they simply learn about romance from other manga. Now it depeneds on the manga too: if is mainly an action manga, in the last chapters is more importat to finish the final battle and present the post battle situation, than wasting limited panels with too much romance. If the manga revolves around romance, then you will definetly have a conclussion. Once again it depeneds on what the author think is mre suited at the end - I mean, if the characters are in highschool to end the story with them getting together while still in highschool is ok. Is not necessary to allways have time skips... plus if you think that once you get a lover in highschool you will definetly end it up with marriage, then you need to learn a thing or two about romance yourself. Anyway, from a Japanese point of view, the romance in manga is strong and comparable with the dreams about princes and princesses the Westerns have, as Japanese are not particulary romantic peoples by their nature. Lol when its a highschool setting then dating after confession is just fine, no need for marriage (i wont mind if its included tho as a timeskip) But I see what you mean :p |
The FEMALE Japanese manga-ka certainly know how. Ohohohoho :D |
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Even those are kind of sucky too :/. I should probably stick to more Josei if I want a good romance. Would probably be my best bet instead of looking for romance under the general shoujo demographic. I find that the female romance writers tend to use the stupid cliches a lot like 10 million "misunderstandings" which annoys me to no end because in real relationships you communicate with the person you love not run away and be all depressed and not communicate over something. I don't know they just annoy me, its probably because I have enough experience with relationships, so I can see all the bullshit they try to pass as a realistic romantic development and I roll my eyes. |
No, Arina Tanemura is romance goddess. :3 Read her stuff. |
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Sure why not, I am willing to give it a try. I was hoping for Orange to be good this season for a romance series, but I feel like I lose brain cells watching that show especially when it comes to Naho. Not to mention the fact that everyone is forcing this relationship with 0 chemistry all in the name to save this guy. I don't know, just weird plot, cliche bs, was kind of hoping it was good, but was letdown :(. |
| Romantic anime is notoriously bad at having any reasonable conclusion and often lead nowhere. They don't even try to take it somewhere. I would even go as far and accept the fact that romance is unrealistic, because it's fictional after all, only to have it going somewhere. It doesn't! |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| Maison Ikkoku heavily disagrees with this statement. |
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KingRequiem said: Maison Ikkoku heavily disagrees with this statement. Which again, is written by a woman. XD WE KNOW. WE KNOW HOW TO WRITE LURVE. |
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Chiibi said: I couldn't disagree even if I wanted to... There are a few male writers out there who can write decent romantic relationships, but it's always just a bonus that complements the main point of story. Which is why one who wants a good romance centered story should (most of the time) look into Josei instead.KingRequiem said: Maison Ikkoku heavily disagrees with this statement. Which again, is written by a woman. XD WE KNOW. WE KNOW HOW TO WRITE LURVE. |
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Chiibi said: KingRequiem said: Maison Ikkoku heavily disagrees with this statement. Which again, is written by a woman. XD WE KNOW. WE KNOW HOW TO WRITE LURVE. It is also more than 20 years old (and it means something if you try to say last good anime is that old) and is aimed at female audience (which makes it everything else but not shounen/seinen) While women have slightly better idea how to write an romance than average male mangaka, most of their work goes under category "nothing ever happens" too. Sometimes it bores even other women to death as not everyone is interested in rip-off of South American Soap opera that has been rewritten to be Japanese only. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| The only kiss scene in a shounen that really pissed me off and made me want to slap the ever loving shit out of someone was But that anime and manga really isn't concluded but it doesn't stop me from getting extremely annoyed that they would tease us like that! Also, most shounen anime/manga doesn't really focus on romance, does it? So it's really not all that surprising if it doesn't give the romance a proper ending. The only shounen anime I've watched that had a very noticeable romantic subplot is Inuyasha. And they managed to conclude that romantic story, even though it took forever. |
ArillionAug 29, 2016 3:42 PM
| Honestly, shoujo/josei authors suffer from this too, but just to a lesser degree. It's a problem that affects any piece of work when the author focuses too much on the wish-fulfillment aspects to appeal to the audience. That isn't to say that complete, satisfying, fleshed out romances aren't wish-fulfillment either, but whatever. Point is, authors think that the most fulfilling part of romances come from seeing the couple come together, and that people want to turn a blind eye to all the real problems that actually come from a relationship. The result is all the disappointing romances that end like the way OP describes. Note: I don't agree with the part that is considered "most fulfilling", I'm just saying what I think authors believe. If anyone believes there is a completely different reason for the existence of these lackluster romances, I'm all ears. TL;DR authors think they know their target audiences and give them what they want, when in reality they couldn't more off the mark. |
beast_regards said: It is also more than 20 years old (and it means something if you try to say last good anime is that old) and is aimed at female audience (which makes it everything else but not shounen/seinen) Eh? Maison Ikkoku is definitely for guys. Rumiko Takahashi doesn't write for a female demographic. She never has. All of her works are shounen manga. |
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Ari_the_Lioness said: The only kiss scene in a shounen that really pissed me off and made me want to slap the ever loving shit out of someone was But that anime and manga really isn't concluded but it doesn't stop me from getting extremely annoyed that they would tease us like that! Also, most shounen anime/manga doesn't really focus on romance, does it? So it's really not all that surprising if it doesn't give the romance a proper ending. The only shounen anime I've watched that had a very noticeable romantic subplot is Inuyasha. And they managed to conclude that romantic story, even though it took forever. Im even suprised they have (tried) such a thing in the first. That is almost shocking lol With these huge shounen mangas im not all that suprised tbh, but I can tell that once they try to actually to pull it off, its just a massive cocktease. I would say that unless they actually do something with the kiss scene and move things on from there, this is literally an indicator that u should stick around, coz it probably will go downhill. This is the case only when they do the kiss scene, and then forget about the possible relationship for 300 chapters all of a sudden. Thats when its really bad @cejara Could you gimme some names which u think are great romance animus/mango? |
RobiiiiAug 30, 2016 12:44 AM
Robiiii said: Ari_the_Lioness said: The only kiss scene in a shounen that really pissed me off and made me want to slap the ever loving shit out of someone was But that anime and manga really isn't concluded but it doesn't stop me from getting extremely annoyed that they would tease us like that! Also, most shounen anime/manga doesn't really focus on romance, does it? So it's really not all that surprising if it doesn't give the romance a proper ending. The only shounen anime I've watched that had a very noticeable romantic subplot is Inuyasha. And they managed to conclude that romantic story, even though it took forever. Im even suprised they have (tried) such a thing in the first. That is almost shocking lol With these huge shounen mangas im not all that suprised tbh, but I can tell that once they try to actually to pull it off, its just a massive cocktease. I would say that unless they actually do something with the kiss scene and move things on from there, this is literally an indicator that u should stick around, coz it probably will go downhill. This is the case only when they do the kiss scene, and then forget about the possible relationship for 300 chapters all of a sudden. Thats when its really bad @cejara Could you gimme some names which u think are great romance animus/mango? To be honest I don't really know any good ones :(. All I know are the cliche ones that other people would think are good like Kimi ni Todoke, ToraDora, Lovely Complex (I personally liked this one). Kimi ni Todoke pissed me off though with a misunderstanding every freaking episode. I have been looking for a good romance anime/manga for a while and I always come across the crappy ones, but I also never read any Josei.... so..... To be honest I was kind of hoping someone would point me in the right direction of a good Josei xDDD. I'm sick of all these bullshit romance anime/manga that suck. Sidenote: If you want a 50 shades of gray type thing (like the whole SandM type of relationship but in a better romance format) look for Sundome, its pretty tragic, good romance development, but the S&M parts are kind of weird haha. |
| "do i look like a fooken romance author" - every shounen and seinen mangaka ever |
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| @cejera Sounds like we re on the same boat pretty much :p To me the endings of romance stories really matter, so after they formed as a couple, anything goes really (dates or marriage, sex or everything inbetween). Thats what I always look for. Thats well i feel like it has a proper conclusion lol As for Joisei I really have no clue, cant help u here lol romagia said: "do i look like a fooken romance author" - every shounen and seinen mangaka ever Pretty much lol. On other hand, whats the point if u include romance parts, but dont end it well xD Why include it in the first place xD |
| {seinen} Rurouni Kenshin handled it's main romance very nicely, especially in the manga. [shounen] FMAB was a bit frustrating, but it was still conclusive. [also, RK was written by a man vs FMA written by a woman so...] If I took a quick look through my list, I'm sure I could find a lot more examples... Heck, E7 has fantastic romance and it's a shounen. [AND IT'S WRITTEN BY MEN. some japanese men DO have a grasp on it, believe it or not. ;>] I think the problem is that the anime/manga in the last five or so years hasn't been ending/handling their romance subplots very well, I did notice that with more then 4 manga that finished recently, everyone seemed to be rather dissatisfied with the rushed feeling/unresolved part. |
Ericonator said: By definition, everything is retro since by the time you realize something has happened it's already in the past.  |
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