Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
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MachRentaro said: 6Man said: This was one of the worst MCs i have ever seen. After he turned down Rem despite Rem being there for him ALL THE TIME he has now become THE WORST MC I HAVE EVER SEEN Its a shame he always gets revived because I want to see him permanently die Make that worst anime character as whole, including side characters. I thought you dropped this anime, but you can't even walk your own talk because you are salty that most people don't hold your opinion and they can understand the show much better than you. You can't actually let go, pathetic. There goes whatever meager credibility you had. |
MachRentaro said: 6Man said: This was one of the worst MCs i have ever seen. After he turned down Rem despite Rem being there for him ALL THE TIME he has now become THE WORST MC I HAVE EVER SEEN Its a shame he always gets revived because I want to see him permanently die Make that worst anime character as whole, including side characters. this comments makes me happy there is still some people with heart and brain in this world Emilia fangays are really disgusting |
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MachRentaro said: Jagd84 said: I thought you dropped this anime, but you can't even walk your own talk because you are salty that most people don't hold your opinion and they can understand the show much better than you. You can't actually let go, pathetic. There goes whatever meager credibility you had. I actually finished the entire anime before going to a single Re:Zero discussion forum. That being said, my credibility is still there. Not when you say the MC literally didn't not grow and claim he's bad for not solve his issues like shounen reject instead of using his head. But I'm not get into this with you because it's been established in the last thread that you are beyond delusional. That fact you had come back here to make this random ass post shows deep down you know your full of it and that Re:Zero is far better than admit so it's worth attacking. You can't ignore it's existence so thanks for vindicating it especially one of best episode in the series no less. |
MachRentaro said: Jagd84 said: Not when you say the MC literally didn't not grow and claim he's bad for not solve his issues like shounen reject instead of using his head. But I'm not get into this with you because it's been established in the last thread that you are beyond delusional. That fact you had come back here to make this random ass post shows deep down you know your full of it and that Re:Zero is far better than admit so it's worth attacking. You can't ignore it's existence so thanks for vindicating it especially one of best episode in the series no less. Just because I finished the anime doesn't mean I think it's good. I didn't say that you did? My point is that you are still sticking around this supposed terribly anime which you should immediately be able to let go, but you can't because you desperately need validation for shallow viewpoint. This is my last response to you. |
| That was the most wonderful confession of love I've ever witness in any sort of TV shows. |
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Sin_Vision said: I think Subaru is a idiot honestly and cowardly. It's a good anime don't get me wrong and I like the character but some of his choices and thoughts really piss me off. I already watched the anime once came back for a rewatch and it just really makes me mad that Subaru can only think about Emilia when the so many thoughtful characters like Rem and etc. Just needed to get that off my chest How exactly is Emilia not thoughtful? She was the one who first saved him when she didn't need to, brought him to her home and got him opportunity to start a new life instead of wondering out in the streets and dying a alley. She's been nothing but good to him. Rem on the other hand killed and tortured him and one point. But Emilia doesn't throw herself at him and Subaru values the fact he what he has right to her he's stupid and cowardly sticking to his feelings? What? It's not like he even dislikes Rem but who else would have done right from the beginning for him putting aside their own issues? |
| Unlimited Ice Work. Puck has transformed. Contract to destroy the world? WTF! The White Whale is coming. Dat reset. She's your Rem. She likes it when you're forceful. Dat proposal. Dat rejection. Dat Rem fantasy. Give her the D and make a child. You're her hero, damn it. Dat head to the oppai. Dat kiss on the forehead. Dat I love you. She said the name of the episode. Roll credits! Wow. You really said you love Emilia after all Rem said. Do not fuck this up. You better harem this shit. Tell Rem that you love her, too. You have some nerve asking Rem all that after rejecting her. He said the name of the episode twice. Roll...Oh, the title card appeared. Funny how the girl who killed Subaru multiple times ended up loving him. Subaru gonna hold dat grudge instead of harem-ing it. smh Looking forward to Episode 1 in the next episode. |
| If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have). |
| I seriously don't know how some of you guys could pay attention to ships during such an episode. Rem's speech was very sweet and supportive, I am very glad that she managed to bring him back on track even if she got rejected. Her love and admiration gave him motivation to try again, despite everything that has happened to him. The guy froze to death, he's been through so many horrific and painful deaths yet he managed to laugh with Rem and not give up and ultimately that's what truly matters. I hope that this ''let's try from square one'' speech marks the end of the worst for Subaru or am I too naive to think that |
Danae said: I seriously don't know how some of you guys could pay attention to ships during such an episode. Rem's speech was very sweet and supportive, I am very glad that she managed to bring him back on track even if she got rejected. Her love and admiration gave him motivation to try again, despite everything that has happened to him. The guy froze to death, he's been through so many horrific and painful deaths yet he managed to laugh with Rem and not give up and ultimately that's what truly matters. I hope that this ''let's try from square one'' speech marks the end of the worst for Subaru or am I too naive to think that THANK YOU. Somebody gets it! |
| Rem, my darling TT^TT Stupid Subaru. After she just poured her whole heart out to you, you still say you love Emilia /SOBS. I'm also ticked off that you offered to start a new life with Rem knowing fully well your heart won't be in it 100%. Bastard.  |
| Another time-filler episode. MC confessed to one who loving him - easy mode. So, big monologue from MC about how useless he is (at last he understood), how stupid, but what for all this social crap: "I was too free and did nothing, so this is why I so bad person!", because what? Dude need to work for some black company in Japan instead? His life and confession are laughable in comparison with MC's problems in ReLife for example. Behind boring and patterned anime is author himself which is boring and patterned too. Once again author, MC and the whole anime forgot that MC has a power, he is ruler of the time and every situation in fact, but instead he is acting just like he is retarded invalid or he can't remember anything from what happened except for death scenes, then anime would work in normal way with such circumstances and such MC, but no... Groundhog Day - MC learned everything about the same day he lived in, so he became a different person and learned a lot of things about people around, how to act with them, even learned some new professional practical skills. In Steins;Gate (VN) MC had difficult time but still he experimented a lot and studied many new facts so he had at least many options to start with, and he used them. Practically every MC from any anime where he has some unique ability or feature he learning it with patience, he want to understand all pros and cons of it, he used it when it needed and even when he just want to, because it's a power, and people like to use their advantages especially in difficult situations, BUT MC from ReZero is insane and the only one excuse the author has is "b-but MC doesn't like to die a-and he doesn't like to see deaths of others once again!". Cool, how about killing yourself in easy way by some chemistry or special magic, if he still won't too then he just a coward and hypocrite which can only cry. And second - all this traumatic bullshit should be for him a some kind of virtuality since he can reload everything, also he should get used to deaths because of permanent stress. Too much bullshit for only one anime... |
| FRIENDZONED!! |
| ***VERY IMPORTANT*** I firmly believe that as the great Jaime fooking Lannister once said....''You don't get to choose who you love'' but let me just say something. I basically have been re-watching the entire series and you know...never checked out the Re:Zero threads because i just joined not to long ago, so i decided to check this place out and came to this specific thread so i can see peoples opinion on episode 18. Of course i checked threads for prior episode first, but this one...i fully read all 33 pages. You know what? It's funny. I love Emilia....Rem more so, but i really do love Emilia and i was very understanding towards Subaru still choosing her...but...re-watching the series..just why? Keep in mind i'm a very open guy and that's very rare from where i come from, but this episode is so wrong....yet so right because Subaru got his sh!t together and honestly this was never about romance lol but still this is the equivalent of watching a dude passing up a victoria secret model who truly loves you for a better than average girl in school who does not even return the feelings and you can't help but laugh at the guy; but of course we need more context! Emilia has done very nice things for Subaru...helped him against a bunch of thugs, especially in a world where no one does things without expecting a reward, and then gave him a roof to stay under...well 50/50 because it was under Roswal's grace...lol looking at this thread no one realizes it was Roswal who gave Subaru the option to stay forever...indirectly of course. Emilia was also his comfort for a while *cough* lap pillow *cough*. It was sweet seeing them interacts throughout the first arc. NOW WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID! NONE OF THOSE COMPARE TO WHAT REM HAS DONE! Oh jeez. I mean however you look at it, quantity over quality or vice versa...Rem has Emilia beat and in terms of quality...quite badly. Of course love does not work that way, you don't do not keep count like that. I don't even what to mention what Rem has done as everyone probably remembers since it's all in the later half of the season; while it's most likely people have forgotten what Emilia has done sadly. Even though i'm more on Rem's side, damn do i love me some Emilia and it's sad people forget she is a sweet girl with a sweet voice and is very cute or has a sweet design. STILL IT'S VERY OBVIOUS REM>EMILIA AS THE BEST GIRL IN THE ANIME FACTUALLY AT LEAST. I am not gonna hype Rem in anyway because she gets enough credit while Emilia doesn't, so i'm not gonna do myself favors by denouncing her candidacy for Subaru while praising her but guess what? I'm that fair...or stupid. The biggest problem....eh...lets say technical problem...is the writing and i'm not saying Tappei(since his the author of the series this anime is based off) is a bad writer, no no no, but this love triangle of Subaru x Rem x Emilia sucked ballz like a vacuum sucking on a rock made of rice. Again...Emilia did good to Subaru..but when it comes to this contest of 'love feats' she's a level below Rem..along with others to be fair. The point is Tappei does not do much with Emilia in contrast to Rem, i mean look how people fall for Rem for her characterization and not Emilia at all! Hell most of the Emilia lovers from the anime series just dig her design and the rest do like her character, but all that and what Tappei does with Emilia on the whole previous arcs are not enough to contest with Rem THUS he makes Subaru look like an azz when he rejects Rem. So once again, Tappei does not flash Emilia enough or at the very least justify Subaru x Emilia enough. He should have worked on Surbaru x Emilia a little more and NO! Cute moments and interactions do not count! Please do not give me arc 4 and above okay, i can give you multiple reason why this argument is invalid so all i will say is this.....if you use arc 4 and above you are accepting the fact that in prior arcs, Emilia and Subaru did not have enough interaction to justify Subaru's type of love for Emilia. Honestly.....i can type more...but nah, as episode 18 was more than just the ships, It was about Subaru's development as a character. This episode was a 10/5. Edit: Oh just to clarify, i'm not salty over the rejection anymore. Just came to the realization that this whole love triangle could have done waay better. No point grieving but meh..wanted to give my 2 cents. |
HulkVahkiinOct 9, 2017 6:41 AM
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HulkVahkiin said: NOW WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID! NONE OF THOSE COMPARE TO WHAT REM HAS DONE! That's the point though. This episode not about what Rem has done for him and Subaru is not obligated to her return feelings because she helped him recently. It's just like with Ep 13 when Emilia told him she never asked for him to help her, he did it by his own will, it's same with Rem here. So why exactly should he coerced into taking her and abandoning someone he had set his heart on up to this point? Was all his actions and feelings now just worthless? Why put up with all the assassinations, murders (some committed by Rem herself) humiliation, self-sacrifices, emotional and physical pain if he's going just jump next person who said some kinds to him? It's not like Emilia wouldn't have done similar things that Rem did in past episodes either, the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her. If that had occurred with Rem too, then she mostly likely wouldn't be with him right now so using the previous loops as justification here is pretty skewered taken in context. The idea here is if you truly love somebody emotional manipulation/obligation should not factor into it. These are not debts or loans where Subaru is supposed to payback. |
Iron_MawOct 12, 2017 2:30 PM
Jagd84 said: Regardless on what the episode or even the entire series is about, that has only so much to do with looking deep into two characters interacting with one another. I already said before that this episode was for Subaru's development but that does not mean i'm gonna ignore my bad feelings for the Rem confession scene. To put it more clearly, regardless on how good a whole book is, right now we are talking about a possible bad page. To your point, just because this episode was not really about Rem x Subaru(kinda was) that does not mean there is no validity to what people(the right minded ones) are complaining about.HulkVahkiin said: NOW WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID! NONE OF THOSE COMPARE TO WHAT REM HAS DONE! That's the point though. This episode not about what Rem has done for him and Subaru is not obligated to her return feelings because she helped him recently. It's just like with Ep 13 when Emilia told him she never asked for him to help her, he did it by his own will, it's same with Rem here. So why exactly should he coerced into taking her and abandoning someone he had set his heart on up to this point? Was all his actions and feelings now just worthless? Why put up with all the assassinations, murders (some committed by Rem herself) humiliation, self-sacrifices, emotional and physical pain if he's going just jump next person who said some kinds to him? It's not like Emilia wouldn't have done similar things that Rem did in past episodes either, the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her. If that had occurred with Rem too, then she mostly likely wouldn't be with him right now so using the previous loops as justification here is pretty skewered taken in context. The idea here is if you truly love somebody emotional manipulation/obligation should not factor into it. These are not debts or loans where Subaru is supposed to payback. It's not about obligation! Yes you are right that in principle, what we are asking for Subaru is to return Rem's feelings because of what she has done but no one, i dare even say the blind hardcore Subaru x Rem shippers, truly wants Subaru to be with Rem due to obligation. It's more than that and i'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but calling it 'obligation' is just almost a formal way to disapprove the wanted 'romance' between Subaru x Rem. There is not one(maybe just a few in this 7 billion world population) person in this world that ships two characters together because one was 'obligated' to be in love with the other. Hell, even the most utter crack ships don't do that. Well sh!t, at least i hope. Either way, for others you might have a point but for me? No, because i don't see this ship and the request of it as due to Subaru's 'obligation' to Rem. F**k obligation. Hahaha, i wish any stubborn child can tell their parents he or she did not ask to be born into this world just to so he/she can remove whatever he/she owes to them but we all know it does not work that way. I know this point might either be extreme or slightly different but you get the message. This is in regards to you referring to episode 13 and the point you made following it. I mean regardless on what you said after said point, i fail to see how this particular logic has any weight. I mean we are not arguing that since Subaru is pretty much in Rem's situation when it comes to his relationship with Emilia, Emilia should love Subaru back like Subaru should love Rem back. I mean i get what you are saying and it make sense but that's a different argument. Co-co-co....coerced??? I don't care what your intentions were for that word or what your definition of what coerced means. I will slap if you don't take that back.........THAT MY FRIEND IS BEING COERCED. Tell me, who is threatening Subaru to love Rem? Definitely not Rem herself.....definitely not me....definitely not any sane person in this thread. Jezuz, the fact you think this way shows the scars you have received from this topic and trust me this is not sympathy, this is me telling you that you might not be as fair in this debate as you think. By the way, i'm not dismissing you because of your poor wording but really the fact you choose to use the word 'coerced' just shows how much of a terrible negative view you have about this. You think i'm exaggerating your mentality on this? Then if Subaru does take Rem over Emilia, why do you say and think it's abandoning Emilia? How about calling it *MOVING ON*!? Hell, even if what you meant was take Rem and leave Emilia to the cultist, guess what? no one person in this thread said that. Now next you say it's Subaru jumping to the next person? Ohhh maaan, why do see this in such negative light? Damn man relax, at least towards me because i'm not 'conspiring' against Emilia or anything. Listen, once more, it's called moving on or better yet, giving another person a shot. I mean are you telling me Subaru wouldn't be happy with Rem? Towards Subaru, Rem is just as caring as Emilia or even more so if you believe Rem does nothing but butter Subaru up. This is besides the point though, what i'm trying to tell you is that this very bad negative light that YOU see is just your own sad interpretation of the our arguments. No one who truly knows what he or she is talking about is saying Subaru should take Rem and leave Emilia to rot away; even if that is the case, how about accept Rem and then go ahead and save Emilia does that work out for you? Also, do you not even realize how hypocritical it is devalue Rem and her sacrifices for Subaru and then, regardless of whether you meant it to be an actual counter point or was just purely making an example, try to justify Subaru's love for Emilia by mentioning his sacrifices? The end goal might be different(Justifying Subaru's love for Emilia and demanding his love for Rem) the basis of the argument(sacrifice) is the same. I mean once again, in fairness to you, you are not wrong on Subaru's sacrifices for Emilia...but yeah...back to what i said earlier. As i said, i read all the pages to this thread and i must say that this point that Emilia would have done the same thing is a completely fallacious argument and a poor attempt to low ball Rem. Which you are guilty of the latter by the way, i mean i'm all for investing in whichever character you want in the show and also going on and on on how good they are as characters but don't condescend one(Rem) for another(Emilia). Now of course you might be thinking, what do i mean when i say fallacious argument. Well...honestly i've written long enough so i will just give an example instead of explaining on why your argument is fallacious. Imagine your dad bought you a gift, a nice $400 Rolex....now instead of thanking him you go like ''Meh mom would have bought me a gift too if i just ask''. Do you see how this looks? Now keep in my mind that everything is true here, your mom would have gotten you an expensive watch if you just ask because she loves you blah blah blah and no the prices don't mean anything in this example. Do you not see how the kind gesture by daddy only gets shafted in face value but the kind act and intentions and what not remains the same? It does not take away what the father is trying to do or has done. In short, you can try your best to dismiss everything Rem has done in anyway possible, but it changes nothing. I mean seriously this is the equivalent to unfairly saying Julius will never be as good as a friend to Subaru as Reinhard is; because anything Julius does for Subaru, Reinhard will do too. You know what? THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. Subaru and Reinhard aren't the best of friends but Reinhard is probably Subaru's closest male friend in the new wold. Now since Julius has actually fought together with Subaru does that make Julius Subaru's closest friend? Nope, not just looking at the fact that Reinhard has come to the aid of Subaru twice to counter the argument for Julius, but you also just can't replace a friend like that, but it does NOT in anyway diminish what Julius has done with Subaru and the very least you can say is Julius can be considered a veeery close ally or friend for Subaru after what happened and if they do become best buddies, don't blame them they fought together and saved their own skins. Of course this is friendship..we are talking about something more complex and that is love. I mean seriously mate, ''the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her'' this 'could have, should have, would have' is laughable, even more so than Subaru 'should love' Rem. I mean i'm not saying you are wrong(Don't know how many times i've said this for you lol) but you are using a hypothetical situation to denounce factual acts. Your point on Rem 'most likely' not being with Subaru if they were to fight is my breaking point. This is nothing but an assumption, almost half assed too. How dare you sit there, type and act like you are making a constructive argument and proceed to use such an amateurish assumption. I mean honestly, ON WHAT BASIS do you make this assumption? There is almost literally no evidence to show that Rem would have left Subaru if they were to have an argument, ZERO. As a matter of fact, in episode 18 itself Subaru at one point yells at Rem and tells her she does not know he feels in a hurtful way but guess what Rem does? She smiles and shrugs it off casually. Now i could compare this to Emilia leaving Subaru after his fight with Julius but i won't because that's a whole different contextual sh!tstorm but do you like ignoring acts that contrast to what you are saying? Hell, you mention Emilia would have done the same things for Subaru when he was taken by Cultist, now i don't blame you if don't remember this because i sure as hell didn't remember or correctly at least, but when Subaru and Ram went off to save Rem, Puck was urging Emilia to go help/save them but she didn't. Now of course you could argue that she was content that Ram was with Subaru but still yeah...this does not suit well for your case. However i'm not sure whether Subaru and Ram went off in secret and Emilia found out too late or the duo informed her but told her to stay behind, if it's the latter then i'm more in the wrong. If i'm right then it proves you just ignore stuff that clearly goes against your points. Seriously that particular logic you gave me pisses me off. Your context and interpretation are asinine in my opinion and you talk about me skewering stuff when in context. Sorry if i sound totally hostile to you, but some of your arguments for me are just bleh. You have a few good points here and there but the later half of your post is just plain wrong. Edit: By the way, Subaru disagrees with you about loans and debts via his mental breakdown XDXDXD 2nd Edit: Okay honestly, i really don't like how i came off in the later half of my post. I think i should have tone down a little. I guess emotions did run high in the end. |
HulkVahkiinOct 14, 2017 5:39 AM
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HulkVahkiin said: Regardless on what the episode or even the entire series is about, that has only so much to do with looking deep into two characters interacting with one another. I already said before that this episode was for Subaru's development but that does not mean i'm gonna ignore my bad feelings for the Rem confession scene. To put it more clearly, regardless on how good a whole book is, right now we are talking about a possible bad page. To your point, just because this episode was not really about Rem x Subaru(kinda was) that does not mean there is no validity to what people(the right minded ones) are complaining about. I well I'm not seeing anything bad about this page perosnally. If anything Rem already knew his feelings were she ddin't say those things to tear him away form Emilia. She only saying what she felt, but she didn't have much expectations of him returning anything given how hard his been trying support Emilia, unless she took his proposal which was the point. It's not about obligation! Yes you are right that in principle, what we are asking for Subaru is to return Rem's feelings because of what she has done but no one, i dare even say the blind hardcore Subaru x Rem shippers, truly wants Subaru to be with Rem due to obligation. It's more than that and i'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but calling it 'obligation' is just almost a formal way to disapprove the wanted 'romance' between Subaru x Rem. There is not one(maybe just a few in this 7 billion world population) person in this world that ships two characters together because one was 'obligated' to be in love with the other. Hell, even the most utter crack ships don't do that. Well sh!t, at least i hope. Either way, for others you might have a point but for me? No, because i don't see this ship and the request of it as due to Subaru's 'obligation' to Rem. F**k obligation. Why that's exactly what you're asking whether intended it or not when go but "look at what x has done for x". Like said this goes back to episode 13. You aren't entitled to anyone feelings no matter what you do unless there agreement. The person must come that way to feel about you. Maybe if there was other completely different set of circumstances that allow Subaru and Rem to meet he might fallen for just her, that's only he she come to like the way does in his timeline. Hahaha, i wish any stubborn child can tell their parents he or she did not ask to be born into this world just to so he/she can remove whatever he/she owes to them but we all know it does not work that way. I know this point might either be extreme or slightly different but you get the message. This is in regards to you referring to episode 13 and the point you made following it. I mean regardless on what you said after said point, i fail to see how this particular logic has any weight. I mean we are not arguing that since Subaru is pretty much in Rem's situation when it comes to his relationship with Emilia, Emilia should love Subaru back like Subaru should love Rem back. I mean i get what you are saying and it make sense but that's a different argument. It has everything to do with it. Subaru has put his own life and well being several times to save or support Emilia anyway he could. Even the midst of the 2nd half of the show he's still doing that. He's still reasonably rejected when it's brought up despite Emilia appreciating his help. A similar thing happens with Rem and Subaru because it would be hypocritical of the writing to have Subaru and Rem get together because of that being a factor. Co-co-co....coerced??? I don't care what your intentions were for that word or what your definition of what coerced means. I will slap if you don't take that back.........THAT MY FRIEND IS BEING COERCED. Tell me, who is threatening Subaru to love Rem? Definitely not Rem herself.....definitely not me....definitely not any sane person in this thread. Jezuz, the fact you think this way shows the scars you have received from this topic and trust me this is not sympathy, this is me telling you that you might not be as fair in this debate as you think. By the way, i'm not dismissing you because of your poor wording but really the fact you choose to use the word 'coerced' just shows how much of a terrible negative view you have about this. I'm not being negative about anything. Coerce is just another way of being forced or obligated into something. Don't be hung up about something so trivial. You think i'm exaggerating your mentality on this? Then if Subaru does take Rem over Emilia, why do you say and think it's abandoning Emilia? How about calling it *MOVING ON*!? It's same thing. You entirely point he drop his feelings for another just get with blue haired one. If Rem didn't exist you wouldn't be saying this. Subaru doesn't have to "move on" even Rem expected him go back and apologize and patch things between him and Emilia because they miscommunicated. If that didn't workout he could leave. But you're saying that he use this an opportunity to jump to somebody else. Hell, even if what you meant was take Rem and leave Emilia to the cultist, guess what? no one person in this thread said that. Now next you say it's Subaru jumping to the next person? Ohhh maaan, why do see this in such negative light? Damn man relax, at least towards me because i'm not 'conspiring' against Emilia or anything. I have no idea what exactly you are talking about here. I implied no such thing, this isn't Emilai's fate, but Subaru's own feelings. Listen, once more, it's called moving on or better yet, giving another person a shot. I mean are you telling me Subaru wouldn't be happy with Rem? Towards Subaru, Rem is just as caring as Emilia or even more so if you believe Rem does nothing but butter Subaru up. Subaru could potential be happy with a lot people, beyond those two, wouldn't that none of them be his first choice. There is no reason for him to pick Rem over Emilia because the former likes him. He should go with what he feels and that would be something Rem would want because she takes his feelings seriously. This is besides the point though, what i'm trying to tell you is that this very bad negative light that YOU see is just your own sad interpretation of the our arguments. No one who truly knows what he or she is talking about is saying Subaru should take Rem and leave Emilia to rot away; even if that is the case, how about accept Rem and then go ahead and save Emilia does that work out for you? Also, do you not even realize how hypocritical it is devalue Rem and her sacrifices for Subaru and then, regardless of whether you meant it to be an actual counter point or was just purely making an example, try to justify Subaru's love for Emilia by mentioning his sacrifices? The end goal might be different(Justifying Subaru's love for Emilia and demanding his love for Rem) the basis of the argument(sacrifice) is the same. I mean once again, in fairness to you, you are not wrong on Subaru's sacrifices for Emilia...but yeah...back to what i said earlier. Again, you devaluing her sacrifices by bring up as some bargaining chip. You're who first brought them to justify her love for him. The fact you don't understand why he rejected her (after she rejected him first) and claims that he should move on only adds to that. If anyone should move it be Rem anyway, since people tend go after others who already have people they are interested in. As i said, i read all the pages to this thread and i must say that this point that Emilia would have done the same thing is a completely fallacious argument and a poor attempt to low ball Rem. Which you are guilty of the latter by the way, i mean i'm all for investing in whichever character you want in the show and also going on and on on how good they are as characters but don't condescend one(Rem) for another(Emilia). Now of course you might be thinking, what do i mean when i say fallacious argument. Well...honestly i've written long enough so i will just give an example instead of explaining on why your argument is fallacious. Imagine your dad bought you a gift, a nice $400 Rolex....now instead of thanking him you go like ''Meh mom would have bought me a gift too if i just ask''. Do you see how this looks? Now keep in my mind that everything is true here, your mom would have gotten you an expensive watch if you just ask because she loves you blah blah blah and no the prices don't mean anything in this example. Do you not see how the kind gesture by daddy only gets shafted in face value but the kind act and intentions and what not remains the same? I'm not sure why you have an issue with that. As you said with Emilia caring about others, Rem doesn't monopoly on self-sacrifice either. Emilia might not have done out of love, but she no less put her life on line to fight and help others. It's not devaluing of Rem, but an attack on skewered argument that only stated because Emilia wasn't in a position to do the same thing. Julius will never be as good as a friend to Subaru as Reinhard is; because anything Julius does for Subaru, Reinhard will do too. You know what? THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. Subaru and Reinhard aren't the best of friends but Reinhard is probably Subaru's closest male friend in the new wold. Now since Julius has actually fought together with Subaru does that make Julius Subaru's closest friend? Nope, not just looking at the fact that Reinhard has come to the aid of Subaru twice to counter the argument for Julius, but you also just can't replace a friend like that, but it does NOT in anyway diminish what Julius has done with Subaru and the very least you can say is Julius can be considered a veeery close ally or friend for Subaru after what happened and if they do become best buddies, don't blame them they fought together and saved their own skins. Of course this is friendship..we are talking about something more complex and that is love. I mean seriously mate, ''the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her'' this 'could have, should have, would have' is laughable, even more so than Subaru 'should love' Rem. I mean i'm not saying you are wrong(Don't know how many times i've said this for you lol) but you are using a hypothetical situation to denounce factual acts. Example you analogy doesn't work here because 1) Emilia and Suabru has know each other as long as Rem and Subaru has if not longer. 2) They have interacted and supported each other more than once physically and emotionally. It's not same thing meeting one guy once and another guy multiple times and choosing the first one to befriend. Furthermore Subaru wasn't interested in becoming friends with either one, it just happened. Rem's relationship with him no more complex than his with Emilia, in fact it's a mirror. Your point on Rem 'most likely' not being with Subaru if they were to fight is my breaking point. This is nothing but an assumption, almost half assed too. How dare you sit there, type and act like you are making a constructive argument and proceed to use such an amateurish assumption. I mean honestly, ON WHAT BASIS do you make this assumption? There is almost literally no evidence to show that Rem would have left Subaru if they were to have an argument, ZERO. As a matter of fact, in episode 18 itself Subaru at one point yells at Rem and tells her she does not know he feels in a hurtful way but guess what Rem does? She smiles and shrugs it off casually. Now i could compare this to Emilia leaving Subaru after his fight with Julius but i won't because that's a whole different contextual sh!tstorm but do you like ignoring acts that contrast to what you are saying? Hell, you mention Emilia would have done the same things for Subaru when he was taken by Cultist, now i don't blame you if don't remember this because i sure as hell didn't remember or correctly at least, but when Subaru and Ram went off to save Rem, Puck was urging Emilia to go help/save them but she didn't. Now of course you could argue that she was content that Ram was with Subaru but still yeah...this does not suit well for your case. However i'm not sure whether Subaru and Ram went off in secret and Emilia found out too late or the duo informed her but told her to stay behind, if it's the latter then i'm more in the wrong. If i'm right then it proves you just ignore stuff that clearly goes against your points. It's not an assumption. If you understood a little of characters and weren't' so defensive of you're ship you would understand that. And basis for why Rem would have have left him too? Did you forget that this same person who went far enough to murder and tortured him in different timelines? Why hell wouldn't she able to just drop him if they relationship progressed to point where was untenable? And comparison between ep 18 and 13 is nonsensical. Emilia cut him off because Subaru was being too unreasonable and said something terrible when she tried to listen to his problems and talk about it. Subaru simply made his feelings that Rem already knew he had clear that's why she reacted that way. So you're comparison doesn't prove a thing because Subaru has never talked to Rem in such a manner. So you can't compare them. Seriously that particular logic you gave me pisses me off. Your context and interpretation are asinine in my opinion and you talk about me skewering stuff when in context. Sorry if i sound totally hostile to you, but some of your arguments for me are just bleh. You have a few good points here and there but the later half of your post is just plain wrong. There is nothing wrong with my logic and anyone takes the time to think about it, removes their bias from a specific character and think about how Subaru feels should understand. This not even an attacked on Rem either like you're talking it. The point is arguing that Subaru has own legitimate feelings and you shouldn't belittling them to push him towards you're preferred ship. Look I'm not saying Subaru and Rem can't get together, but because the relationships in this series don't happen in a strictly black and white sense is exactly why don't see other characters just switching gears. What Subaru likes from Emilia is completely different from what he likes from Rem and neither of girls can fill the same role because they are different people. Edit: By the way, Subaru disagrees with you about loans and debts via his mental breakdown XDXDXD Which Subaru admits he was wrong and apologizes for later in the show. 2nd Edit: Okay honestly, i really don't like how i came off in the later half of my post. I think i should have tone down a little. I guess emotions did run high in the end. It's alright. Apology accepted. :) |
| [quote=Jagd84 message=52650532] HulkVahkiin said: Regardless on what the episode or even the entire series is about, that has only so much to do with looking deep into two characters interacting with one another. I already said before that this episode was for Subaru's development but that does not mean i'm gonna ignore my bad feelings for the Rem confession scene. To put it more clearly, regardless on how good a whole book is, right now we are talking about a possible bad page. To your point, just because this episode was not really about Rem x Subaru(kinda was) that does not mean there is no validity to what people(the right minded ones) are complaining about. I well I'm not seeing anything bad about this page perosnally. If anything Rem already knew his feelings were she ddin't say those things to tear him away form Emilia. She only saying what she felt, but she didn't have much expectations of him returning anything given how hard his been trying support Emilia, unless she took his proposal which was the point. It's not about obligation! Yes you are right that in principle, what we are asking for Subaru is to return Rem's feelings because of what she has done but no one, i dare even say the blind hardcore Subaru x Rem shippers, truly wants Subaru to be with Rem due to obligation. It's more than that and i'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but calling it 'obligation' is just almost a formal way to disapprove the wanted 'romance' between Subaru x Rem. There is not one(maybe just a few in this 7 billion world population) person in this world that ships two characters together because one was 'obligated' to be in love with the other. Hell, even the most utter crack ships don't do that. Well sh!t, at least i hope. Either way, for others you might have a point but for me? No, because i don't see this ship and the request of it as due to Subaru's 'obligation' to Rem. F**k obligation. Why that's exactly what you're asking whether intended it or not when go but "look at what x has done for x". Like said this goes back to episode 13. You aren't entitled to anyone feelings no matter what you do unless there agreement. The person must come that way to feel about you. Maybe if there was other completely different set of circumstances that allow Subaru and Rem to meet he might fallen for just her, that's only he she come to like the way does in his timeline. Hahaha, i wish any stubborn child can tell their parents he or she did not ask to be born into this world just to so he/she can remove whatever he/she owes to them but we all know it does not work that way. I know this point might either be extreme or slightly different but you get the message. This is in regards to you referring to episode 13 and the point you made following it. I mean regardless on what you said after said point, i fail to see how this particular logic has any weight. I mean we are not arguing that since Subaru is pretty much in Rem's situation when it comes to his relationship with Emilia, Emilia should love Subaru back like Subaru should love Rem back. I mean i get what you are saying and it make sense but that's a different argument. It has everything to do with it. Subaru has put his own life and well being several times to save or support Emilia anyway he could. Even the midst of the 2nd half of the show he's still doing that. He's still reasonably rejected when it's brought up despite Emilia appreciating his help. A similar thing happens with Rem and Subaru because it would be hypocritical of the writing to have Subaru and Rem get together because of that being a factor. Co-co-co....coerced??? I don't care what your intentions were for that word or what your definition of what coerced means. I will slap if you don't take that back.........THAT MY FRIEND IS BEING COERCED. Tell me, who is threatening Subaru to love Rem? Definitely not Rem herself.....definitely not me....definitely not any sane person in this thread. Jezuz, the fact you think this way shows the scars you have received from this topic and trust me this is not sympathy, this is me telling you that you might not be as fair in this debate as you think. By the way, i'm not dismissing you because of your poor wording but really the fact you choose to use the word 'coerced' just shows how much of a terrible negative view you have about this. I'm not being negative about anything. Coerce is just another way of being forced or obligated into something. Don't be hung up about something so trivial. You think i'm exaggerating your mentality on this? Then if Subaru does take Rem over Emilia, why do you say and think it's abandoning Emilia? How about calling it *MOVING ON*!? It's same thing. You entirely point he drop his feelings for another just get with blue haired one. If Rem didn't exist you wouldn't be saying this. Subaru doesn't have to "move on" even Rem expected him go back and apologize and patch things between him and Emilia because they miscommunicated. If that didn't workout he could leave. But you're saying that he use this an opportunity to jump to somebody else. Hell, even if what you meant was take Rem and leave Emilia to the cultist, guess what? no one person in this thread said that. Now next you say it's Subaru jumping to the next person? Ohhh maaan, why do see this in such negative light? Damn man relax, at least towards me because i'm not 'conspiring' against Emilia or anything. I have no idea what exactly you are talking about here. I implied no such thing, this isn't Emilai's fate, but Subaru's own feelings. Listen, once more, it's called moving on or better yet, giving another person a shot. I mean are you telling me Subaru wouldn't be happy with Rem? Towards Subaru, Rem is just as caring as Emilia or even more so if you believe Rem does nothing but butter Subaru up. Subaru could potential be happy with a lot people, beyond those two, wouldn't that none of them be his first choice. There is no reason for him to pick Rem over Emilia because the former likes him. He should go with what he feels and that would be something Rem would want because she takes his feelings seriously. This is besides the point though, what i'm trying to tell you is that this very bad negative light that YOU see is just your own sad interpretation of the our arguments. No one who truly knows what he or she is talking about is saying Subaru should take Rem and leave Emilia to rot away; even if that is the case, how about accept Rem and then go ahead and save Emilia does that work out for you? Also, do you not even realize how hypocritical it is devalue Rem and her sacrifices for Subaru and then, regardless of whether you meant it to be an actual counter point or was just purely making an example, try to justify Subaru's love for Emilia by mentioning his sacrifices? The end goal might be different(Justifying Subaru's love for Emilia and demanding his love for Rem) the basis of the argument(sacrifice) is the same. I mean once again, in fairness to you, you are not wrong on Subaru's sacrifices for Emilia...but yeah...back to what i said earlier. Again, you devaluing her sacrifices by bring up as some bargaining chip. You're who first brought them to justify her love for him. The fact you don't understand why he rejected her (after she rejected him first) and claims that he should move on only adds to that. If anyone should move it be Rem anyway, since people tend go after others who already have people they are interested in. As i said, i read all the pages to this thread and i must say that this point that Emilia would have done the same thing is a completely fallacious argument and a poor attempt to low ball Rem. Which you are guilty of the latter by the way, i mean i'm all for investing in whichever character you want in the show and also going on and on on how good they are as characters but don't condescend one(Rem) for another(Emilia). Now of course you might be thinking, what do i mean when i say fallacious argument. Well...honestly i've written long enough so i will just give an example instead of explaining on why your argument is fallacious. Imagine your dad bought you a gift, a nice $400 Rolex....now instead of thanking him you go like ''Meh mom would have bought me a gift too if i just ask''. Do you see how this looks? Now keep in my mind that everything is true here, your mom would have gotten you an expensive watch if you just ask because she loves you blah blah blah and no the prices don't mean anything in this example. Do you not see how the kind gesture by daddy only gets shafted in face value but the kind act and intentions and what not remains the same? I'm not sure why you have an issue with that. As you said with Emilia caring about others, Rem doesn't monopoly on self-sacrifice either. Emilia might not have done out of love, but she no less put her life on line to fight and help others. It's not devaluing of Rem, but an attack on skewered argument that only stated because Emilia wasn't in a position to do the same thing. Julius will never be as good as a friend to Subaru as Reinhard is; because anything Julius does for Subaru, Reinhard will do too. You know what? THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. Subaru and Reinhard aren't the best of friends but Reinhard is probably Subaru's closest male friend in the new wold. Now since Julius has actually fought together with Subaru does that make Julius Subaru's closest friend? Nope, not just looking at the fact that Reinhard has come to the aid of Subaru twice to counter the argument for Julius, but you also just can't replace a friend like that, but it does NOT in anyway diminish what Julius has done with Subaru and the very least you can say is Julius can be considered a veeery close ally or friend for Subaru after what happened and if they do become best buddies, don't blame them they fought together and saved their own skins. Of course this is friendship..we are talking about something more complex and that is love. I mean seriously mate, ''the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her'' this 'could have, should have, would have' is laughable, even more so than Subaru 'should love' Rem. I mean i'm not saying you are wrong(Don't know how many times i've said this for you lol) but you are using a hypothetical situation to denounce factual acts. Example you analogy doesn't work here because 1) Emilia and Suabru has know each other as long as Rem and Subaru has if not longer. 2) They have interacted and supported each other more than once physically and emotionally. It's not same thing meeting one guy once and another guy multiple times and choosing the first one to befriend. Furthermore Subaru wasn't interested in becoming friends with either one, it just happened. Rem's relationship with him no more complex than his with Emilia, in fact it's a mirror. Your point on Rem 'most likely' not being with Subaru if they were to fight is my breaking point. This is nothing but an assumption, almost half assed too. How dare you sit there, type and act like you are making a constructive argument and proceed to use such an amateurish assumption. I mean honestly, ON WHAT BASIS do you make this assumption? There is almost literally no evidence to show that Rem would have left Subaru if they were to have an argument, ZERO. As a matter of fact, in episode 18 itself Subaru at one point yells at Rem and tells her she does not know he feels in a hurtful way but guess what Rem does? She smiles and shrugs it off casually. Now i could compare this to Emilia leaving Subaru after his fight with Julius but i won't because that's a whole different contextual sh!tstorm but do you like ignoring acts that contrast to what you are saying? Hell, you mention Emilia would have done the same things for Subaru when he was taken by Cultist, now i don't blame you if don't remember this because i sure as hell didn't remember or correctly at least, but when Subaru and Ram went off to save Rem, Puck was urging Emilia to go help/save them but she didn't. Now of course you could argue that she was content that Ram was with Subaru but still yeah...this does not suit well for your case. However i'm not sure whether Subaru and Ram went off in secret and Emilia found out too late or the duo informed her but told her to stay behind, if it's the latter then i'm more in the wrong. If i'm right then it proves you just ignore stuff that clearly goes against your points. It's not an assumption. If you understood a little of characters and weren't' so defensive of you're ship you would understand that. And basis for why Rem would have have left him too? Did you forget that this same person who went far enough to murder and tortured him in different timelines? Why hell wouldn't she able to just drop him if they relationship progressed to point where was untenable? And comparison between ep 18 and 13 is nonsensical. Emilia cut him off because Subaru was being too unreasonable and said something terrible when she tried to listen to his problems and talk about it. Subaru simply made his feelings that Rem already knew he had clear that's why she reacted that way. So you're comparison doesn't prove a thing because Subaru has never talked to Rem in such a manner. So you can't compare them. Seriously that particular logic you gave me pisses me off. Your context and interpretation are asinine in my opinion and you talk about me skewering stuff when in context. Sorry if i sound totally hostile to you, but some of your arguments for me are just bleh. You have a few good points here and there but the later half of your post is just plain wrong. There is nothing wrong with my logic and anyone takes the time to think about it, removes their bias from a specific character and think about how Subaru feels should understand. This not even an attacked on Rem either like you're talking it. The point is arguing that Subaru has own legitimate feelings and you shouldn't belittling them to push him towards you're preferred ship. Look I'm not saying Subaru and Rem can't get together, but because the relationships in this series don't happen in a strictly black and white sense is exactly why don't see other characters just switching gears. What Subaru likes from Emilia is completely different from what he likes from Rem and neither of girls can fill the same role because they are different people. Edit: By the way, Subaru disagrees with you about loans and debts via his mental breakdown XDXDXD Which Subaru admits he was wrong and apologizes for later in the show. 2nd Edit: Okay honestly, i really don't like how i came off in the later half of my post. I think i should have tone down a little. I guess emotions did run high in the end. It's alright. Apology accepted. :) Jagd84 said: You know what? F**k it, i'm not doing this until i learn how to....i actually don't know how it's describe ...how you separate phrases and qoute them? I've done it before on other forums but i don't know how to do it in MAL. Lol i honestly do not want want my arguments to look like essays when i'm replying to someone :PHulkVahkiin said: Regardless on what the episode or even the entire series is about, that has only so much to do with looking deep into two characters interacting with one another. I already said before that this episode was for Subaru's development but that does not mean i'm gonna ignore my bad feelings for the Rem confession scene. To put it more clearly, regardless on how good a whole book is, right now we are talking about a possible bad page. To your point, just because this episode was not really about Rem x Subaru(kinda was) that does not mean there is no validity to what people(the right minded ones) are complaining about. I well I'm not seeing anything bad about this page perosnally. If anything Rem already knew his feelings were she ddin't say those things to tear him away form Emilia. She only saying what she felt, but she didn't have much expectations of him returning anything given how hard his been trying support Emilia, unless she took his proposal which was the point. It's not about obligation! Yes you are right that in principle, what we are asking for Subaru is to return Rem's feelings because of what she has done but no one, i dare even say the blind hardcore Subaru x Rem shippers, truly wants Subaru to be with Rem due to obligation. It's more than that and i'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but calling it 'obligation' is just almost a formal way to disapprove the wanted 'romance' between Subaru x Rem. There is not one(maybe just a few in this 7 billion world population) person in this world that ships two characters together because one was 'obligated' to be in love with the other. Hell, even the most utter crack ships don't do that. Well sh!t, at least i hope. Either way, for others you might have a point but for me? No, because i don't see this ship and the request of it as due to Subaru's 'obligation' to Rem. F**k obligation. Why that's exactly what you're asking whether intended it or not when go but "look at what x has done for x". Like said this goes back to episode 13. You aren't entitled to anyone feelings no matter what you do unless there agreement. The person must come that way to feel about you. Maybe if there was other completely different set of circumstances that allow Subaru and Rem to meet he might fallen for just her, that's only he she come to like the way does in his timeline. Hahaha, i wish any stubborn child can tell their parents he or she did not ask to be born into this world just to so he/she can remove whatever he/she owes to them but we all know it does not work that way. I know this point might either be extreme or slightly different but you get the message. This is in regards to you referring to episode 13 and the point you made following it. I mean regardless on what you said after said point, i fail to see how this particular logic has any weight. I mean we are not arguing that since Subaru is pretty much in Rem's situation when it comes to his relationship with Emilia, Emilia should love Subaru back like Subaru should love Rem back. I mean i get what you are saying and it make sense but that's a different argument. It has everything to do with it. Subaru has put his own life and well being several times to save or support Emilia anyway he could. Even the midst of the 2nd half of the show he's still doing that. He's still reasonably rejected when it's brought up despite Emilia appreciating his help. A similar thing happens with Rem and Subaru because it would be hypocritical of the writing to have Subaru and Rem get together because of that being a factor. Co-co-co....coerced??? I don't care what your intentions were for that word or what your definition of what coerced means. I will slap if you don't take that back.........THAT MY FRIEND IS BEING COERCED. Tell me, who is threatening Subaru to love Rem? Definitely not Rem herself.....definitely not me....definitely not any sane person in this thread. Jezuz, the fact you think this way shows the scars you have received from this topic and trust me this is not sympathy, this is me telling you that you might not be as fair in this debate as you think. By the way, i'm not dismissing you because of your poor wording but really the fact you choose to use the word 'coerced' just shows how much of a terrible negative view you have about this. I'm not being negative about anything. Coerce is just another way of being forced or obligated into something. Don't be hung up about something so trivial. You think i'm exaggerating your mentality on this? Then if Subaru does take Rem over Emilia, why do you say and think it's abandoning Emilia? How about calling it *MOVING ON*!? It's same thing. You entirely point he drop his feelings for another just get with blue haired one. If Rem didn't exist you wouldn't be saying this. Subaru doesn't have to "move on" even Rem expected him go back and apologize and patch things between him and Emilia because they miscommunicated. If that didn't workout he could leave. But you're saying that he use this an opportunity to jump to somebody else. Hell, even if what you meant was take Rem and leave Emilia to the cultist, guess what? no one person in this thread said that. Now next you say it's Subaru jumping to the next person? Ohhh maaan, why do see this in such negative light? Damn man relax, at least towards me because i'm not 'conspiring' against Emilia or anything. I have no idea what exactly you are talking about here. I implied no such thing, this isn't Emilai's fate, but Subaru's own feelings. Listen, once more, it's called moving on or better yet, giving another person a shot. I mean are you telling me Subaru wouldn't be happy with Rem? Towards Subaru, Rem is just as caring as Emilia or even more so if you believe Rem does nothing but butter Subaru up. Subaru could potential be happy with a lot people, beyond those two, wouldn't that none of them be his first choice. There is no reason for him to pick Rem over Emilia because the former likes him. He should go with what he feels and that would be something Rem would want because she takes his feelings seriously. This is besides the point though, what i'm trying to tell you is that this very bad negative light that YOU see is just your own sad interpretation of the our arguments. No one who truly knows what he or she is talking about is saying Subaru should take Rem and leave Emilia to rot away; even if that is the case, how about accept Rem and then go ahead and save Emilia does that work out for you? Also, do you not even realize how hypocritical it is devalue Rem and her sacrifices for Subaru and then, regardless of whether you meant it to be an actual counter point or was just purely making an example, try to justify Subaru's love for Emilia by mentioning his sacrifices? The end goal might be different(Justifying Subaru's love for Emilia and demanding his love for Rem) the basis of the argument(sacrifice) is the same. I mean once again, in fairness to you, you are not wrong on Subaru's sacrifices for Emilia...but yeah...back to what i said earlier. Again, you devaluing her sacrifices by bring up as some bargaining chip. You're who first brought them to justify her love for him. The fact you don't understand why he rejected her (after she rejected him first) and claims that he should move on only adds to that. If anyone should move it be Rem anyway, since people tend go after others who already have people they are interested in. As i said, i read all the pages to this thread and i must say that this point that Emilia would have done the same thing is a completely fallacious argument and a poor attempt to low ball Rem. Which you are guilty of the latter by the way, i mean i'm all for investing in whichever character you want in the show and also going on and on on how good they are as characters but don't condescend one(Rem) for another(Emilia). Now of course you might be thinking, what do i mean when i say fallacious argument. Well...honestly i've written long enough so i will just give an example instead of explaining on why your argument is fallacious. Imagine your dad bought you a gift, a nice $400 Rolex....now instead of thanking him you go like ''Meh mom would have bought me a gift too if i just ask''. Do you see how this looks? Now keep in my mind that everything is true here, your mom would have gotten you an expensive watch if you just ask because she loves you blah blah blah and no the prices don't mean anything in this example. Do you not see how the kind gesture by daddy only gets shafted in face value but the kind act and intentions and what not remains the same? I'm not sure why you have an issue with that. As you said with Emilia caring about others, Rem doesn't monopoly on self-sacrifice either. Emilia might not have done out of love, but she no less put her life on line to fight and help others. It's not devaluing of Rem, but an attack on skewered argument that only stated because Emilia wasn't in a position to do the same thing. Julius will never be as good as a friend to Subaru as Reinhard is; because anything Julius does for Subaru, Reinhard will do too. You know what? THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. Subaru and Reinhard aren't the best of friends but Reinhard is probably Subaru's closest male friend in the new wold. Now since Julius has actually fought together with Subaru does that make Julius Subaru's closest friend? Nope, not just looking at the fact that Reinhard has come to the aid of Subaru twice to counter the argument for Julius, but you also just can't replace a friend like that, but it does NOT in anyway diminish what Julius has done with Subaru and the very least you can say is Julius can be considered a veeery close ally or friend for Subaru after what happened and if they do become best buddies, don't blame them they fought together and saved their own skins. Of course this is friendship..we are talking about something more complex and that is love. I mean seriously mate, ''the only reason didn't happened because he go in a fight with her'' this 'could have, should have, would have' is laughable, even more so than Subaru 'should love' Rem. I mean i'm not saying you are wrong(Don't know how many times i've said this for you lol) but you are using a hypothetical situation to denounce factual acts. Example you analogy doesn't work here because 1) Emilia and Suabru has know each other as long as Rem and Subaru has if not longer. 2) They have interacted and supported each other more than once physically and emotionally. It's not same thing meeting one guy once and another guy multiple times and choosing the first one to befriend. Furthermore Subaru wasn't interested in becoming friends with either one, it just happened. Rem's relationship with him no more complex than his with Emilia, in fact it's a mirror. Your point on Rem 'most likely' not being with Subaru if they were to fight is my breaking point. This is nothing but an assumption, almost half assed too. How dare you sit there, type and act like you are making a constructive argument and proceed to use such an amateurish assumption. I mean honestly, ON WHAT BASIS do you make this assumption? There is almost literally no evidence to show that Rem would have left Subaru if they were to have an argument, ZERO. As a matter of fact, in episode 18 itself Subaru at one point yells at Rem and tells her she does not know he feels in a hurtful way but guess what Rem does? She smiles and shrugs it off casually. Now i could compare this to Emilia leaving Subaru after his fight with Julius but i won't because that's a whole different contextual sh!tstorm but do you like ignoring acts that contrast to what you are saying? Hell, you mention Emilia would have done the same things for Subaru when he was taken by Cultist, now i don't blame you if don't remember this because i sure as hell didn't remember or correctly at least, but when Subaru and Ram went off to save Rem, Puck was urging Emilia to go help/save them but she didn't. Now of course you could argue that she was content that Ram was with Subaru but still yeah...this does not suit well for your case. However i'm not sure whether Subaru and Ram went off in secret and Emilia found out too late or the duo informed her but told her to stay behind, if it's the latter then i'm more in the wrong. If i'm right then it proves you just ignore stuff that clearly goes against your points. It's not an assumption. If you understood a little of characters and weren't' so defensive of you're ship you would understand that. And basis for why Rem would have have left him too? Did you forget that this same person who went far enough to murder and tortured him in different timelines? Why hell wouldn't she able to just drop him if they relationship progressed to point where was untenable? And comparison between ep 18 and 13 is nonsensical. Emilia cut him off because Subaru was being too unreasonable and said something terrible when she tried to listen to his problems and talk about it. Subaru simply made his feelings that Rem already knew he had clear that's why she reacted that way. So you're comparison doesn't prove a thing because Subaru has never talked to Rem in such a manner. So you can't compare them. Seriously that particular logic you gave me pisses me off. Your context and interpretation are asinine in my opinion and you talk about me skewering stuff when in context. Sorry if i sound totally hostile to you, but some of your arguments for me are just bleh. You have a few good points here and there but the later half of your post is just plain wrong. There is nothing wrong with my logic and anyone takes the time to think about it, removes their bias from a specific character and think about how Subaru feels should understand. This not even an attacked on Rem either like you're talking it. The point is arguing that Subaru has own legitimate feelings and you shouldn't belittling them to push him towards you're preferred ship. Look I'm not saying Subaru and Rem can't get together, but because the relationships in this series don't happen in a strictly black and white sense is exactly why don't see other characters just switching gears. What Subaru likes from Emilia is completely different from what he likes from Rem and neither of girls can fill the same role because they are different people. Edit: By the way, Subaru disagrees with you about loans and debts via his mental breakdown XDXDXD Which Subaru admits he was wrong and apologizes for later in the show. 2nd Edit: Okay honestly, i really don't like how i came off in the later half of my post. I think i should have tone down a little. I guess emotions did run high in the end. It's alright. Apology accepted. :) Edit: If it wasn't clear enough, yes i am asking someone to teach me. |
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| Rem is so supportive and that speech! So incredible well executed :) |
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| Why talk about running away if Puck's going to destroy the world? So much for "I love Ram and Rem." Filler episode told me what I knew though it is interesting Puck mentioned the witch. Time to start the 'who is Subaru' meme because he's dead to me. /s |
primaltare said: Hmm. Everyone loves this episode despite all the others. Don't get me wrong, I did too, but I don't like how they spent the entire duration of the episode on that one heart-to-heart. It was touching, but easy to lose interest. Anyway, wow, I was wrong. By appearance, many girls surpass Rem. But by personality... she has just gone to number one in my book after revealing her true self. To take a man that is that defeated, looks down on himself that much, and wants to give up... and give him love, hope and courage... unconditionally accepting him... that is very, very deep. I can't respect her more than I do now. I love seeing Subaru comforted and reassured after every time he's tortured. It's really touching. <retraction of original P.S.> P.P.S. Admit it, everyone screamed like a girl when he said "starting again... from Zero". No, just me? Okay. PrOxAnto said: When Rem started talking about their potential future together the only thing I could think of was Subaru eventually dying of old age and getting back to the same checkpoint with the Appa merchant. Rem really is a fantastic character, she was so lovely when she got Subaru back on his feet ... eventually even confessing. - Despite all that he still loves Emilia as much as he did before, understandable seeing how he keeps dying to save Emilia. Poor Rem being turned down as she's REALLY in love with Subaru but his heart's already been taken by Emilia. i am speechless about Rem's speech & how she takes it all, i just want to jump in this anime & hug her primaltare said: Jagd84 said: I always find how interesting some people say this based on recent fleeting emotion and forget everything else that happened prior. Emilia saved his life long before came in the picture. She gave a home and job before Rem came in to the picture. She comforted him emotionally. She didn't kill him over a misunderstanding and mistrust unlike Rem. She went pulled some strings with one of her rivals for the throne to get him treatment. Emilia has been one of the few people who consistently treated him decently even when she didn't have to and the selfless attracted him to her. Yet some people ask what has she done for him? What do people expect from her here? To throw her entirely life aside for him? Apparently Rem sacrificing herself suddenly means she only person who did any for him even though he pushed away everyone including Emilia who did do things for him because of his own attitude. I guess Subaru totally shut of his prior feelings and then get anyone throws themselves at him even if didn't ask for it. He's right afterall, people most love another person entirely based on obligation rather than actual feelings. It's totally fine to sympathetic to Rem, but unless you have some unreasonable hate towards Emilia it's hard to grasp why pick her. Plus just going for Rem now just would miss point of ep 13 and would just be him run away from his problems. It basically saying yeah "Emilia snubbed me for acting like a brat out of pride so instead changing my faults I'm just gonna go anyone who puts up with that side of me because I don't ever ". And he Rem ever have a fight he'll just drop her too go with somebody else because he wouldn't have learned the lessons here to work out his flaws. Basically I don't it's being fair at all, especially since Subaru's feeling towards Emilia are very much like Rem's toward him. Thank you for a non-hostile response despite differing views. Emilia didn't really save his life... if he were to die there, he would have just respawned as any other time (unless he became cursed by the Jealous Witch after he was attacked by the thugs, in which case I retract my comment... no spoilers please). Also, she only gave him a home and a job in compensation for his assistance in retrieving her insignia, which literally saved her from losing her candidacy as King. I'm sure his housing was temporary. Keep in mind how reluctant she was to have anything to do with him at the start... And couldn't you argue that her pulling of strings was simply to keep him in his place, (to increase the odds of) preventing him from interfering during the selection process? Although, I will argue that it is true that he had been reset so many times that he can claim to know Emilia without her reciprocation. In defense of Rem, she did put her life at risk several times. She was very hard to "open up" because of her inherent nature and past. And whoa, wait, believing that love is typically the result of obligation instead of actual feelings is a pretty bold claim...however, I guess you are right in claiming that Rem's reason for liking him is the same as Subaru's reason for liking Emilia...the saving of each other's lives... I used to be a big advocate for Subaru being with Emilia, so obviously I don't have anything against her. Maybe it's simply because I haven't seen her for several episodes. Also, it is true that despite Subaru's betrayals, even leading to her death in one timeline, she still respected him. Actually, as I was typing this, I was starting to realize that I was neglecting a lot of the criteria that actually made Emilia a very good candidate for him in the first place. You made a really good argument. So, you could argue that you've changed my views back. Thank you for your comment, I do understand your point and admit that I was wrong. :) to be really fair without Emilia he would have died meany times more, despite her role wasn't that big & also u can't control to whom u fall for on a scale ur hes feelings are heavier then Rem's deeds what she has dome for him Saffron_entity said: That was an amazing confession, and Rem is truly an amazing person. She took that rejection like a champion. But I don't understand why everybody hates Subaru for not accepting her. Is he obliged to love her simply because she's an (amazing) girl who loves him? Subaru has developed a lot in a great way, and I love how Rem helps him develop and supports him, but under no circumstances is anyone obliged to love anyone. Emilia isn't obliged to love Subaru, and we all hated him for thinking that (and trying to push himself onto Emilia). So why are we hating Subaru for not being in love with Rem? That's just sick. some ppl cant live without bitching & whining XD |
Sugram22Nov 8, 2017 11:54 AM
| So, it really was Puck who's the big-ass beast. It's his/her true form? Jeez. Puck ended up killing Subaru for he broke 3 promises and Puck's reason in living is dead and it's Emilia, so once she lost that reason, she'll destroy the world? Damn. Subaru like lost the will to fight to fix everything and he chose to run away with Rem, but Rem said no because she don't want to see Subaru being like THAT. When Subaru's falling apart, Rem is there to cheer him up. I'm not okay with this shit. Aww, Rem, why are you such an angel? Already called it that Rem fell in love with Subaru when he saved her and Ram in the forest. The way she confessed her love to Subaru was so sweet. Rem was saved by Subaru. Subaruw as saved by Rem. Too many feels. After this episode, I suddenly wanted Subaru to choose Rem instead of Emilia. Ohmygod. This episode obviously made me love Rem more than Emilia, but I still love Emilia, but Rem is on the another level. What the shit did this episode do to me!?!? I feel so violated. Hahaha. |
     "Maybe he's trying to take a shit, but the shit just won't come out." Captain Levi, 2014 (／^-^)／☆♪  ♪☆＼(^０^＼) |
| That was a 20 minute episode of Subaru and Rem going into some of the strongest Voice acting I've seen come from animated media. Holy shit. I'm not sure anything I've ever seen could top the amount of pain and love coming from the two characters. Like I'm seriously blown away. I need to take a moment before the next episode. No wonder everyone fell for Rem. Talk about best girl. She is on another level. |
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| Well, Subaru went back to this point and not when he woke up in the Mansion after being attacked by the white whale! Glad for that. Now this conversation between Rem and Subaru is probably more closely than any other conversation in the whole anime so far!!! The interaction right there is over the chart! After Rem persuaded Subaru to keep on going... Subaru literally just rejected her!? Even though both of them does not really show any pain initially, well... 3...2...1... OMFGWTFSUBARUWHYWOULDUREJECTHEROMGEMILIAUSEDTOBEBETTERBUTNOWREMISSOMUCHBETTEREVENIFSHEDONTUNDERSTANDSHEWONTLEAVEYOU......... (and so on...) Yeah, so in conclusion basically, no matter how I try to love Emilia more than Rem, she is closer to Subaru. If Subaru met rem first in this world, then he would've chosen Rem... |
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i'm just gonna say that he does love rem later I know... |
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| Ok, this isn't getting reset, I hope. |
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| Oh God, that was so emotional episode. But damn Subaru... To turn Rem down just after such beautiful confession... He could've been more indirect about his feelings for Emilia, at least at that moment. Rem is such a wonderful girl and now I feel sorry for her more than for Subaru. |
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| Subaru are u kidding me? Rems loyality, her countless sacrifices and her pure love for him and he still picks Emilia over her? Talk about retarded. Atleast he realized what kind of a scumbag he really is but still.. konrad509 said: Oh God, that was so emotional episode. But damn Subaru... To turn Rem down just after such beautiful confession... He could've been more indirect about his feelings for Emilia, . He basically had to say yes or no after her confession, anything else would have been very rude to Rem. But why the hell would he chose Emilia over Rem...Emilia saved him in episode 1 from worthless thugs, thats it. Rem on the other hand... |
| I found it to be quite derivative |
Zip_Zip said: Subaru are u kidding me? Rems loyality, her countless sacrifices and her pure love for him and he still picks Emilia over her? Talk about retarded. Atleast he realized what kind of a scumbag he really is but still.. konrad509 said: Oh God, that was so emotional episode. But damn Subaru... To turn Rem down just after such beautiful confession... He could've been more indirect about his feelings for Emilia, . He basically had to say yes or no after her confession, anything else would have been very rude to Rem. But why the hell would he chose Emilia over Rem...Emilia saved him in episode 1 from worthless thugs, thats it. Rem on the other hand... She didn't just save him from the thugs, she is his entire reason he has life right now becasue she constantly looked for him without needing to be in love with like Rem. Plus killed and tortured him just an arc ago while Emilia has been pretty supportive of him and saved him not just emotionally, but physically too. What the point going everything he did to stay by her side if to just drop everything for Rem because she sacrificed for him one and twice? Are his feelings that wishwashy? I think much more of an insult to Rem if he were a person who could go through all that for one person and then switch his affection for nearest person he saw. |
Iron_MawFeb 19, 2018 9:59 PM
| @Jagd84 Look im not into shipping wars, I actually dont care about it at all but: Emilia: So what exactly did she do? She allowed him to accompany her and smiled whenever he did something awkward. She was nice to Subaru because shes kind hearted (but also out of pity for his sorry existence) "She constantly looked for him without needing to be in love like Rem" Thats her character she was nice to all people that doesnt mean she gave Subaru any special treatment in the beginning. I think she even told Subaru in the first Cycle that she Satella, just so he would leave her alone (He was clueless though) Rem: Yes you're right, she killed him and tortured him but out of good reason. Its not like she killed him on sight, she spyed on him and concluded that he was way to suspicious (Comes out of nowhere, mysterious past, odor like the witch, his goal is unclear) and Emilia and her Master had many enemys. Idk where im going with this, I guess my main problem is that I cant see why hes so in love with her. |
Zip_ZipFeb 20, 2018 8:29 AM
Rehls said: @Zip_Zip She told him she was Satella as she thought it very likely that he'd leave her, due to the infamy involved with that name--so she did the wise thing, which took her courage--opposed to keeping it a secret, which'd be stupid and fearful. She tends to treat everyone well, but Subaru became special to her, since he became her first friend (as mentioned in the show). Emilia showed kindness that people (like Rem) normally wouldn't to strangers; this is something Subaru values well. She was the first. Subaru was needy for affection; he ended up falling in love for her. He's been putting effort primarily for her. He had been focusing on her (longer). Subaru's loyal. She apparently has more qualities Subaru values than Rem does. Subaru believes she's in more need of him. Yeah, Rem killed him reasonably. I don't care about Shipping (nor I think Jagd does) but the story. Okay, I understand this makes actually a lot of sense. I guess I felt a bit disapointed that Subaru stayed loyal to Emilia after hearing Rems confession. |
| Omg, puck looks so cute when he’s a giant dog. I feel this episode was some kind of filler where Subaru will get his strength and willpower back. But now I hate him even more.. he literally asked rem to runaway with him and start a life together. And when Rem confessed her feelings, this jerk said he lives Emilia. Unbelievable. He doesn’t deserve Rem or her help. I hope he’ll stay alone forever, no matter what he’ll do later. You can’t toy with someone’s feelings like that. |
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yoite- said: Omg, puck looks so cute when he’s a giant dog. I feel this episode was some kind of filler where Subaru will get his strength and willpower back. But now I hate him even more.. he literally asked rem to runaway with him and start a life together. And when Rem confessed her feelings, this jerk said he lives Emilia. Unbelievable. He doesn’t deserve Rem or her help. I hope he’ll stay alone forever, no matter what he’ll do later. You can’t toy with someone’s feelings like that. Actually, it only seemed this way for most anime-only watcher because the anime skimmed past a lot of monologue on this particular scene. Subaru asking Rem to run away with him is just his excuse of running away from the problem which was too much for him. Rem saw through his lies and demanded Subaru to be his usual resilient self, the Subaru she loves, fully knowing this Subaru won't return her love. Subaru then realized that he had a grave misconception of how Rem think of him: she's not someone who would tolerate the Subaru that finds the easy way out, she's someone who would make Subaru live up to her ideal, the never giving up Subaru. He then decided to at least trying to live up to Rem's ideal of him, and told her that his heart at that time still belongs to Emilia because he doesn't wanna lie to Rem after having heart-to-heart conversation, with Rem smiling in return because she knew in the beginning this would happen. All Subaru could do at that time is to live up Rem's ideal, until... |
NitroKageAki said: yoite- said: Omg, puck looks so cute when he’s a giant dog. I feel this episode was some kind of filler where Subaru will get his strength and willpower back. But now I hate him even more.. he literally asked rem to runaway with him and start a life together. And when Rem confessed her feelings, this jerk said he lives Emilia. Unbelievable. He doesn’t deserve Rem or her help. I hope he’ll stay alone forever, no matter what he’ll do later. You can’t toy with someone’s feelings like that. Actually, it only seemed this way for most anime-only watcher because the anime skimmed past a lot of monologue on this particular scene. Thank you for clearing that up. I felt kinda weird how close he was with Rem now and then suddenly said he still loves Emilia. Got a bit confused. |
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| WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU SUBARU Rem doesn't deserve this Whatever. I'm just glad this show is much more than shipping characters together. |
christoff522 said: ShadowZ_AnimeZ said: . If Subaru met rem first in this world, then he would've chosen Rem... Not only that, Emilia is so boring and stuffy compared to Rem, Rem is badass and cute, and she has infinite patience with him. Emilia doesn't even seem to understand that Subaru has feelings for her, and yes she has Puck which is cute, but Rem is cuter, I mean "I feel connected to you when you put your hand on my head", I mean jeez, when has Emilia said anything like that. Subaru is like a novelty to her, "oh yay a friend who doesn't judge me because I'm half elf wooo" - thats literally what she said in the bedroom to him before she told him to gtfo. He's got a bad case of oneitis, and man I guess this anime has me now!! two posts in ten minutes. That's pretty ironic because your reasons for why Subaru should have picked Rem amounts her being obsessed with him which far more shallow. If that all it takes to get in his pants and can't handle who are willing to check him for being wrong than he's beyond pathetic and Emilia should left him to die. Aside form that who's cuter or more badass is subjective. Also: christoff522 said: EDIT: after seeing a few more posts I am hoping Rem's kokuhaku didn't fall on deaf ears. She deserves to be happy! I am now more optimistic. Rem doesn't deserve happiness anymore than anyone else who's suffered and continues to do so. She certainly shouldn't need Subaru to be happy unless she has no life of her own. |
Iron_MawMar 13, 2018 1:49 PM
| Powerful emotional speech from subaru about his own character and rem being there for him too :'( |
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