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Aug 6, 2016 2:28 PM
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Zefyris said:
Ein said:

So the type of audience that would enjoy that scene was with the show for the episode that aired just last week? Huh. That seems to contradict what you said about the rating going up because only the people who appreciate this anime for its narrative technique stuck with the show. Hmm, what was that thing you said about basic thinking?

I never said that. Are we going to talk about basic reading skill now? I said that the remaining audience was able to enjoy the show. Not why it was enjoying it. The current audience appreciate it for stuff like that scene in episode 4, yes. That's why it's rising so much now. Because even though it didn't really find the audience it should have found out, it still manage to be so good that even other peoples outside of this audience can still really appreciate it. Which is fine. Usually peoples enjoying something aren't only peoples originally intended.

Huh. It's so weird that you describe this show as atypical and outside of the preferences of the average anime viewer but when it pulls off an over the top fight scene which you described alongside other generic tropes, it's suddenly genius for attracting the usual crowd.
 
Aug 6, 2016 2:37 PM

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Because when you get an anime adaptation, a studio is obviously interested in giving more attention to the part thery know will attract more peoples toward it. Taking Danmachi as an example, that novel has basically no focus on hestia most of the time, let alone on hestia's ribbon (I read the goddamn novels and didn't even notice she had thatr ribbon until the buzz the anime made out of it, to give you an idea of how much difference there is). JC staff banked on what they knew would please anime audience. Hestia became a really important character screen time wise, with lots of shots toward her breasts.
Madhouse aren't stupid either. When they get a bloody fight, they get the best out of it. In the novel, that fight wasn't that long at all, didn't had that much speedy move and the like. That's... adapting a show to its audience. They cannot do a thing about the fact that the main themes aren't stuff interesting anime watchers and they weren't disrespectful so they didn't go with an ecchi version of the story, but they obviously still take what they can when it's possible. Whenever there's a fight, they'll get the most of it to raise the popularity of the show.
That's normal. But the novel didn't especially focus on that tho, that's true as well.


Ein said:

Also a shows advertisement has nothing to do with its mal score. The rating judges the show, not it's market strategy.


Who rate? Those who watched. Who watched? Those who were interested to watch it, through the synopsis (advertising), the previews (advertising) and the buzz around it (advertising).
So what decided who watch it? Advertising. So if the advertising isn't good, it's not going to work. i'm going to take an extreme example, but if you advertise a yuri show with a fujoshi bait preview, fujoshi aren't going to rate that show well at all coz they didn't come for that.
Because of bad advertising the yuri show didn't found its audience liking yuri and was badly rated by peoples wanting yaoi, no matter the quality as an entertainment. This is very easy to avoid that by advertising at yuri, right? But basically the more complex a show is, the more difficult to do a proper advertising to get the correct audience it becomes. RnY had the same problem last summer. Lots of peoples thought it was a straight forward grand fantasy story about a group of heroes going to defeat a demon king, not a detectiove/psychological/fantasy mix at all.
Modified by Zefyris, Aug 6, 2016 2:43 PM
 
Aug 6, 2016 2:51 PM
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Zefyris said:
Because when you get an anime adaptation, a studio is obviously interested in giving more attention to the part thery know will attract more peoples toward it. Taking Danmachi as an example, that novel has basically no focus on hestia most of the time, let alone on hestia's ribbon (I read the goddamn novels and didn't even notice she had thatr ribbon until the buzz the anime made out of it, to give you an idea of how much difference there is). JC staff banked on what they knew would please anime audience. Hestia became a really important character screen time wise, with lots of shots toward her breasts.
Madhouse aren't stupid either. When they get a bloody fight, they get the best out of it. In the novel, that fight wasn't that long at all, didn't had that much speedy move and the like. That's... adapting a show to its audience. They cannot do a thing about the fact that the main themes aren't stuff interesting anime watchers and they weren't disrespectful so they didn't go with an ecchi version of the story, but they obviously still take what they can when it's possible. Whenever there's a fight, they'll get the most of it to raise the popularity of the show.
That's normal. But the novel didn't especially focus on that tho, that's true as well.


Ein said:

Also a shows advertisement has nothing to do with its mal score. The rating judges the show, not it's market strategy.


Who rate? Those who watched. Who watched? Those who were interested to watch it, through the synopsis (advertising), the previews (advertising) and the buzz around it (advertising).
So what decided who watch it? Advertising. So if the advertising isn't good, it's not going to work. i'm going to take an extreme example, but if you advertise a yuri show with a fujoshi bait preview, fujoshi aren't going to rate that show well at all coz they didn't come for that.
Because of bad advertising the yuri show didn't found its audience liking yuri and was badly rated by peoples wanting yaoi, no matter the quality as an entertainment. This is very easy to avoid that by advertising at yuri, right? But basically the more complex a show is, the more difficult to do a proper advertising to get the correct audience it becomes. RnY had the same problem last summer. Lots of peoples thought it was a straight forward grand fantasy story about a group of heroes going to defeat a demon king, not a detectiove/psychological/fantasy mix at all.

>"So what decided who watch it? Advertising"
And what decides the score they give? The show itself.

Advertising affects the amount of people who watch the show. It does NOT affect the score viewers give the show. As for why this show has the score that it does here on MAL, advertisement is not the answer. Yes it may have reached less eyes due to poor marketing, but I doubt people thought "man this was a good show, but I better lower my score because the advertising wasn't that strong". It's as simple as that really.
Modified by --l--, Aug 6, 2016 2:55 PM
 
Aug 6, 2016 3:37 PM

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Ein said:
Zefyris said:
Because when you get an anime adaptation, a studio is obviously interested in giving more attention to the part thery know will attract more peoples toward it. Taking Danmachi as an example, that novel has basically no focus on hestia most of the time, let alone on hestia's ribbon (I read the goddamn novels and didn't even notice she had thatr ribbon until the buzz the anime made out of it, to give you an idea of how much difference there is). JC staff banked on what they knew would please anime audience. Hestia became a really important character screen time wise, with lots of shots toward her breasts.
Madhouse aren't stupid either. When they get a bloody fight, they get the best out of it. In the novel, that fight wasn't that long at all, didn't had that much speedy move and the like. That's... adapting a show to its audience. They cannot do a thing about the fact that the main themes aren't stuff interesting anime watchers and they weren't disrespectful so they didn't go with an ecchi version of the story, but they obviously still take what they can when it's possible. Whenever there's a fight, they'll get the most of it to raise the popularity of the show.
That's normal. But the novel didn't especially focus on that tho, that's true as well.




Who rate? Those who watched. Who watched? Those who were interested to watch it, through the synopsis (advertising), the previews (advertising) and the buzz around it (advertising).
So what decided who watch it? Advertising. So if the advertising isn't good, it's not going to work. i'm going to take an extreme example, but if you advertise a yuri show with a fujoshi bait preview, fujoshi aren't going to rate that show well at all coz they didn't come for that.
Because of bad advertising the yuri show didn't found its audience liking yuri and was badly rated by peoples wanting yaoi, no matter the quality as an entertainment. This is very easy to avoid that by advertising at yuri, right? But basically the more complex a show is, the more difficult to do a proper advertising to get the correct audience it becomes. RnY had the same problem last summer. Lots of peoples thought it was a straight forward grand fantasy story about a group of heroes going to defeat a demon king, not a detectiove/psychological/fantasy mix at all.

>"So what decided who watch it? Advertising"
And what decides the score they give? The show itself.

Advertising affects the amount of people who watch the show. It does NOT affect the score viewers give the show. As for why this show has the score that it does here on MAL, advertisement is not the answer. Yes it may have reached less eyes due to poor marketing, but I doubt people thought "man this was a good show, but I better lower my score because the advertising wasn't that strong". It's as simple as that really.

Advertising affects WHO watches the show and therefore WHO rates it. If a show is advertised as a romance, peoples not interested in romance aren't going to watch it. If a show is advertised as gay romance, peoples who like romance but not gay romance won't watch it. If it's advertised as a basic shounen battle, peoples who don't like that will not watch it.
So if it's badly advertised, peoples who would be interested miss it, and peoples that aren't interested try it. Since only peoples who try it rate it, this is a pretty huge deal as far as rating goes.
If a show gets its targeted audience for 95% of its watchers, it means that 95% of the peoples rating it will already like the type of show it is. After that, it's still not won for the show, but it's far easier.


This is also why on MAL, usually each seasons sequels (at least sequels that aren't awful compared to their prequel obviously) are usually far more easily very good rating. In the top 10 rating of each seasons, you often get lots of sequels. Why? is it that sequels are better than the first series? no. But sequels are watched by peoples who liked the first series. Those who didn't aren't coming. In other words, while the number of peoples watching sequels is usually lower in average compared to first season, their % of (targeted audience rating this show)/(total number of rating for this show) is incredibly high.

Bad advertising lead to abnormally low % of(targeted audience rating this show)/(total number of rating for this show). This naturally lead to an average rating lower than it should be otherwise.

It's very simple really. Bad advertising do not change someone's rating, yes, you're correct. However, it changes who rates and who does not. And as such, it change the average rating of this show.
What do you think would happen to the rating of a very good gay romance story if 80% of the peoples rating it absolutely dislike gay romance? Think it's going to be a good rating just because the story is good? Well no.
Those who could have appreciated it didn't notice the show so they cannot rate it, those who cannot appreciate that saw it, would be pissed of it was gay romance, and rated it with tons of 1 and 2/10.
Modified by Zefyris, Aug 6, 2016 3:49 PM
 
Mar 9, 2017 8:10 PM

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I think the current score is fine, I don't believe it to be underrated.
"At some point, I stopped hoping."
 
Mar 17, 2017 6:37 AM

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joe_g7 said:
I think the current score is fine, I don't believe it to be underrated.
It was around 7,50 when that thread was posted, so it went up quite a bit since then. :)
I wouldn't call it underrated right now either, especially considering the number of mistakes madhouse made, the anime's current mean rating seems quite correct.
 
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