| (and those who avoid old anime like the plague) Don't you think they're just full of confirmation biases and are just closed minded as hell? |
| Not really, but if said person likes to believe that their viewpoints are objective, that's when I have a problem, as I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Besides, even though I haven't seen these series yet, I don't think retros always win as evidenced by OVAs like MD Geist, and Garzey's Wing. |
| I'm just confused by the whole concept of scoring by "Writing and characters." If you're not entertained, why should you care? |
ilovewendy16 said: CapitalistGod said: yes i do, that is exactly what i think. there is shit anime in every year. including the "retro" years.(and those who avoid old anime like the plague) Don't you think they're just full of confirmation biases and are just closed minded as hell? There are great anime in every year, too. Some of my all time favorites are more recent. |
 Click the banner for anime lists, discussions, reviews, and let's plays! |
| the answer is always legend of the galactic heroes |
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| The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Zelkiiro said: Good stuff that you can't see cause the art and animation is too shitty.The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. |
CapitalistGod said: Animes prior to 2008 were the best tho.(and those who avoid old anime like the plague) Don't you think they're just full of confirmation biases and are just closed minded as hell? |
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| There are good and bad anime no matter which year you look at. Complex and gritty stories does NOT equal quality. Yuru Yuri for example is a great show. Retro fans don't agree because it has young cute girls doing cute things. Sorry, but retro fans will always be in the minority. |
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kryptic2g said: Zelkiiro said: Good stuff that you can't see cause the art and animation is too shitty.The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. I'll take Escaflowne's aesthetic over The Asterisk War's any day of the week month year ever. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
kryptic2g said: Zelkiiro said: Good stuff that you can't see cause the art and animation is too shitty.The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. Also irrelevant. TBH, its not very complicated: There are enjoyable shows every year. Retro and new fans allow preference to cloud their judgment and they begin saying old stuff is shit or new stuff is shit. Yuru Yuri was a great show, but so was the 90s classic Romeo no aoi sora. Both had vastly different approaches, but both are fantastic. |
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Kagami said: Also irrelevant. TBH, its not very complicated: There are enjoyable shows every year. Retro and new fans allow preference to cloud their judgment and they begin saying old stuff is shit or new stuff is shit. Yuru Yuri was a great show, but so was the 90s classic Romeo no aoi sora. Both had vastly different approaches, but both are fantastic. I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. |
Lyuze said: Kagami said: Also irrelevant. TBH, its not very complicated: There are enjoyable shows every year. Retro and new fans allow preference to cloud their judgment and they begin saying old stuff is shit or new stuff is shit. Yuru Yuri was a great show, but so was the 90s classic Romeo no aoi sora. Both had vastly different approaches, but both are fantastic. I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. I can't vouch for the show as a whole, but this clip is absolute genius: The way I see it, the only way this scene could be dubbed is if the girls were played by Jamieson Price, J. Michael Tatum, etc. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Lyuze said: Kagami said: Also irrelevant. TBH, its not very complicated: There are enjoyable shows every year. Retro and new fans allow preference to cloud their judgment and they begin saying old stuff is shit or new stuff is shit. Yuru Yuri was a great show, but so was the 90s classic Romeo no aoi sora. Both had vastly different approaches, but both are fantastic. I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. Clearly you didn't get my sentiment at all. I compared two vastly different anime to show that anime can be good with a complex and amazing story, but can also be good if they offer fun stories and rely on character interaction and are cute. There is no right way to be a good show - There are plenty of ways to create good anime. If you think Yuru Yuri is bad, so be it. Not worth discussing. |
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Based on the forum pics on the site alone I would say people like newer Anime more so I dont think your going to run into too many people that think only old Anime is good. |
MiraniaJun 25, 2016 7:36 PM
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Zelkiiro said: Lyuze said: I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. I can't vouch for the show as a whole, but this clip is absolute genius: The way I see it, the only way this scene could be dubbed is if the girls were played by Jamieson Price, J. Michael Tatum, etc. Good scene, haha. Yuru Yuri in general was pretty great if you can accept that its a cute girls doing cute things show. The characters were great, they all had great chemistry and mixed well, the material was great. I feel plenty of people dismiss it for that reason too. Just like new fans dismiss old anime for quality they see as bad. I think accepting retro and new is the best option. |
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Kagami said: Clearly you didn't get my sentiment at all. I compared two vastly different anime to show that anime can be good with a complex and amazing story, but can also be good if they offer fun stories and rely on character interaction and are cute. There is no right way to be a good show - There are plenty of ways to create good anime. If you think Yuru Yuri is bad, so be it. Not worth discussing. I understood your sentiment perfectly fine, which is why I wrote that I understood before calling Yuru Yuri trash. |
Lyuze said: Kagami said: Clearly you didn't get my sentiment at all. I compared two vastly different anime to show that anime can be good with a complex and amazing story, but can also be good if they offer fun stories and rely on character interaction and are cute. There is no right way to be a good show - There are plenty of ways to create good anime. If you think Yuru Yuri is bad, so be it. Not worth discussing. I understood your sentiment perfectly fine, which is why I wrote that I understood before calling Yuru Yuri trash. Calling it a bad comparison in the context you wrote made it seem the opposite, but either way it doesn't matter. What matters is - Its fine if you personally hate Yuru Yuri, but I don't see our conflicting tastes worth discussing. Rather, hopefully obnoxious retro and new fans will stop letting preference cloud their judgment. Sadly, it likely will never happen. |
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| Retrofags. You don't talk about those faggots around here. Although might as well add this one thing in there. People who aren't open to watching older anime are just as dumb though. It doesn't matter what era it's from, there'll always be good and bad anime.. |
Gesu- said: Retrofags. You don't talk about those faggots around here. Although might as well add this one thing in there. People who aren't open to watching older anime are just as dumb though. It doesn't matter what era it's from, there'll always be good and bad anime.. Yes. Sadly, some retro and some new fans let preference of when anime was created cloud and fog actual logical thinking. Its fine if you prefer retro or new, but calling one shit when you prefer the other typically is biased from what I've seen. GunBuster from the 80s was good and had a 10/10 ending, but just because its core foundation and cliches were different from let's say Natsuiro Kiseki, doesn't make it better for that reason. There are so many ways to approach the concept of what makes a show good. Is it grit? Is it cuteness? Nah. Its how the show was made despite which year its from. Yuru Yuri is as good as good 80s anime, but good 80s anime is as good as FMA B. All are completely different shows, but all were good at what they did. |
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Kagami said: Gesu- said: Retrofags. You don't talk about those faggots around here. Although might as well add this one thing in there. People who aren't open to watching older anime are just as dumb though. It doesn't matter what era it's from, there'll always be good and bad anime.. Yes. Sadly, some retro and some new fans let preference of when anime was created cloud and fog actual logical thinking. Its fine if you prefer retro or new, but calling one shit when you prefer the other typically is biased from what I've seen. GunBuster from the 80s was good and had a 10/10 ending, but just because its core foundation and cliches were different from let's say Natsuiro Kiseki, doesn't make it better for that reason. There are so many ways to approach the concept of what makes a show good. Is it grit? Is it cuteness? Nah. Its how the show was made despite which year its from. Yuru Yuri is as good as good 80s anime, but good 80s anime is as good as FMA B. All are completely different shows, but all were good at what they did. I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. |
Gesu- said: Kagami said: Yes. Sadly, some retro and some new fans let preference of when anime was created cloud and fog actual logical thinking. Its fine if you prefer retro or new, but calling one shit when you prefer the other typically is biased from what I've seen. GunBuster from the 80s was good and had a 10/10 ending, but just because its core foundation and cliches were different from let's say Natsuiro Kiseki, doesn't make it better for that reason. There are so many ways to approach the concept of what makes a show good. Is it grit? Is it cuteness? Nah. Its how the show was made despite which year its from. Yuru Yuri is as good as good 80s anime, but good 80s anime is as good as FMA B. All are completely different shows, but all were good at what they did. I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. Probably. I can let them have their preference, but saying an entire time period is bad due to grit and art is not very logical. Though, dismissing new anime because some do not have super duper complex stories is not logical either. I bet you, most people dismiss Yuru Yuri because it has cute girls doing cute things. Though, putting biased opinions aside: Were the characters bad? HECK NO. Was it bad material? NOPE. Were the situations badly tackled? NAH. So, I assume some say its trash due to my former reason. |
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Gesu- said: I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. Most likely. Watching Gainax shows in the 90's(at least the mos popular ones ... mainly NGE and His and Her Circumstances) is a bad starting point for modern anime fans who takes aesthetics and animation into importance... There are much older anime than those 2 that has excellent aesthetics and animation. Zelkiiro said: The benefit of hunting for shows of the past is that they're, well, past. You don't need to sit through the harem garbage anymore--you can just dive straight into the good stuff. That's the mentality I'm describing here. xD |
Kagami said: Gesu- said: I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. Probably. I can let them have their preference, but saying an entire time period is bad due to grit and art is not very logical. Though, dismissing new anime because some do not have super duper complex stories is not logical either. I bet you, most people dismiss Yuru Yuri because it has cute girls doing cute things. Though, putting biased opinions aside: Were the characters bad? HECK NO. Was it bad material? NOPE. Were the situations badly tackled? NAH. So, I assume some say its trash due to my former reason. I get what you're saying. Even an echchi anime can be really good too so you'd be doing yourself disservice by writing all echchi anime off as trash. Bottom line; people should keep an open mind going into things.. CapitalistGod said: Gesu- said: I doubt most 'retro-haters' have even seen any old anime to begin with. Most of them probably just watched a bit of NGE and concluded that 'it has shitty animation'. Most likely. Watching Gainax shows in the 90's(at least the mos popular ones ... mainly NGE and His and Her Circumstances) is a bad starting point for modern anime fans who takes aesthetics and animation into importance... There are much older anime than those 2 that has excellent aesthetics and animation. I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu |
Gesu-Jun 25, 2016 8:33 PM
| You can go wrong with 80's and 90's OVAs, there was turd after turd in the OVA format. Stuff like Macross Plus was few and far between. |
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Gesu- said: Kagami said: Probably. I can let them have their preference, but saying an entire time period is bad due to grit and art is not very logical. Though, dismissing new anime because some do not have super duper complex stories is not logical either. I bet you, most people dismiss Yuru Yuri because it has cute girls doing cute things. Though, putting biased opinions aside: Were the characters bad? HECK NO. Was it bad material? NOPE. Were the situations badly tackled? NAH. So, I assume some say its trash due to my former reason. I get what you're saying. Even an echchi anime can be really good too so you'd be doing yourself disservice by writing all echchi anime off as trash. Bottom line; people should keep an open mind going into things.. Yes. Its all how the product handles itself. For example, people will write off ecchi because its more titties than story? Though, that's being extremely ignorant. Its better to grasp all aspects of a show before judging the entire thing. I thought Highschool DXD was pretty good. As good as Romeo no aoi sora? IMO, no. I do believe however that the characters were fun and the situations between them were crafted well. |
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| Yep, pretty much. Every year has it's good and bad shows. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
Kagami said: Gesu- said: I get what you're saying. Even an echchi anime can be really good too so you'd be doing yourself disservice by writing all echchi anime off as trash. Bottom line; people should keep an open mind going into things.. Yes. Its all how the product handles itself. For example, people will write off ecchi because its more titties than story? Though, that's being extremely ignorant. Its better to grasp all aspects of a show before judging the entire thing. I thought Highschool DXD was pretty good. As good as Romeo no aoi sora? IMO, no. I do believe however that the characters were fun and the situations between them were crafted well. I've seen people so far as to say Kill la Kill is bad because "too much oppai lel". |
Gesu- said: CapitalistGod said: Most likely. Watching Gainax shows in the 90's(at least the mos popular ones ... mainly NGE and His and Her Circumstances) is a bad starting point for modern anime fans who takes aesthetics and animation into importance... There are much older anime than those 2 that has excellent aesthetics and animation. I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu Pretty much the poster boy for that one...haha! Speaking of posterboys.... This guy is another one... I mean, it's Snob who inspired me to make this post... haha! |
Gesu- said: Kagami said: Yes. Its all how the product handles itself. For example, people will write off ecchi because its more titties than story? Though, that's being extremely ignorant. Its better to grasp all aspects of a show before judging the entire thing. I thought Highschool DXD was pretty good. As good as Romeo no aoi sora? IMO, no. I do believe however that the characters were fun and the situations between them were crafted well. I've seen people so far as to say Kill la Kill is bad because "too much oppai lel". Those people have a preference that indicates they don't like oppai which is fine, but the oppai and KLK mixed very well. If anything, KLK's foundation was a girl who was young, but needed to accept her body and not being embarrased about showing it in battle made her stronger. KLK I thought had a stunning presentation and the oppai never took away from the show. Not to mention it was pretty fresh material. |
KagamiJun 25, 2016 8:53 PM
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Kagami said: Those people have a preference that indicates they don't like oppai which is fine, but the oppai and KLK mixed very well. If anything, KLK's foundation was a girl who was young, but needed to accept her body and not being embarrased about showing it in battle made her stronger. KLK I thought had a stunning presentation and was the oppai never took away from the show. Not to mention it was pretty fresh material. Which, in itself, was incredibly refreshing. Many anime just shove tits onto the screen and call it a day, but Kill la Kill decided, "Y'know what? We're actually gonna do something relatively clever with all this partial nudity and give our show something to say!" And from what I understand, Shimoneta is doing the same thing, and I say that's a good thing; if you're gonna load your series with fanservice, at least have a good reason for it. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
CapitalistGod said: Gesu- said: I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu Pretty much the poster boy for that one...haha! Speaking of posterboys.... This guy is another one... I mean, it's Snob who inspired me to make this post... haha! Oh god not this guy again.. I do agree with a lot of opinions on here but he can't back it up for shit.. If his only argument for not liking something is "it's not retro" I feel really sorry for this guy. I can't imagine someone being excited for every single season yet coming out in disappointment every time. That sounds retarded. Kagami said: Those people have a preference that indicates they don't like oppai which is fine, but the oppai and KLK mixed very well. If anything, KLK's foundation was a girl who was young, but needed to accept her body and not being embarrased about showing it in battle made her stronger. KLK I thought had a stunning presentation and was oppai never took away from the show. Not to mention it was pretty fresh material. The oppai was just a distraction. The main focus is how the Honnouji academy works (which symbolizes a nation under a totalitarian fascist ruler) and how Ryuko Matoi wants to take it down while also coming to terms with herself and who she is.. |
Zelkiiro said: Kagami said: Those people have a preference that indicates they don't like oppai which is fine, but the oppai and KLK mixed very well. If anything, KLK's foundation was a girl who was young, but needed to accept her body and not being embarrased about showing it in battle made her stronger. KLK I thought had a stunning presentation and was the oppai never took away from the show. Not to mention it was pretty fresh material. Which, in itself, was incredibly refreshing. Many anime just shove tits onto the screen and call it a day, but Kill la Kill decided, "Y'know what? We're actually gonna do something relatively clever with all this partial nudity and give our show something to say!" And from what I understand, Shimoneta is doing the same thing, and I say that's a good thing; if you're gonna load your series with fanservice, at least have a good reason for it. I can agree to that. Though, I also at the very least think its plausible to be good even if there are tits being shown more than needed. I think it boils down to other aspects such as characters and how they engage. Also, characters that seem generic being bad characters due to that is a myth. Everything personality wise has almost completely been done if you look at every medium in the world. Sure, Koneko from DXD isn't as deep as let's say Hajime Ippo... though, she brought a smile to my face due to her interactions and how they were handled. I thought she was a good character. |
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Gesu- said: Well, hes got some good points, even with his shit taste.Oh god not this guy again.. |
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Zelkiiro said: Which, in itself, was incredibly refreshing. Many anime just shove tits onto the screen and call it a day, but Kill la Kill decided, "Y'know what? We're actually gonna do something relatively clever with all this partial nudity and give our show something to say!" And from what I understand, Shimoneta is doing the same thing, and I say that's a good thing; if you're gonna load your series with fanservice, at least have a good reason for it. I agree even if I'm an ecchi/harem fan(I just have to mention this seeing your sig... xD). Though, I personally have no problem with anime that shoves tits and asses into my screen. Most of the time, they're not really distracting(or I just grew accustomed to it). |
Kagami said: @Gesu- I didn't see it as a distraction. At least, not one that took away from the show. I guess it just depends on the individual then. I personally failed to notice the oppain about 70% of the time. I mean there were legit few times where the show got my dick hard (satsuki in a cage) but there were so many other things to notice. |
Gesu- said: Kagami said: @Gesu- I didn't see it as a distraction. At least, not one that took away from the show. I guess it just depends on the individual then. I personally failed to notice the oppain about 70% of the time. I mean there were legit few times where the show got my dick hard (satsuki in a cage) but there were so many other things to notice. Lol, I always enjoyed the Nonon moments. I've always wished they did more with her tbh. |
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Kagami said: Gesu- said: I guess it just depends on the individual then. I personally failed to notice the oppain about 70% of the time. I mean there were legit few times where the show got my dick hard (satsuki in a cage) but there were so many other things to notice. Lol, I always enjoyed the Nonon moments. I've always wished they did more with her tbh. lmao yeah, she needed a bit more air time. She wasn't as fleshed out as say gamagoori. She even had a great theme : |
Gesu- said: Kagami said: Lol, I always enjoyed the Nonon moments. I've always wished they did more with her tbh. lmao yeah, she needed a bit more air time. She wasn't as fleshed out as say gamagoori. She even had a great theme : If there was an anime WWE, I could legit picture her coming out to that theme. The pop I'd give her would be huge! |
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Kagami said: Gesu- said: lmao yeah, she needed a bit more air time. She wasn't as fleshed out as say gamagoori. She even had a great theme : If there was an anime WWE, I could legit picture her coming out to that theme. The pop I'd give her would be huge! Still can't beat Ragyo though: |
| @Gesu- That Ragyo theme is 10/10. It's the perfect OST for a villain.... But, we're getting sidetracked here... haha! xD |
| Though, I can imagine Ragyo never getting to main event level or needing to put Nonon over. Nonon just screams "small and an underdog story". |
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| There are good and bad shows every year but we can see only the good ones from the past because the bad ones have been forgotten by the majority. Other than that nostalgia plays a big role. Zelkiiro said: You've seen it from my profile or did you find it yourself?Lyuze said: I agree with your sentiment but Yuru Yuri is trash and that was an atrocious comparison. I can't vouch for the show as a whole, but this clip is absolute genius: The way I see it, the only way this scene could be dubbed is if the girls were played by Jamieson Price, J. Michael Tatum, etc. CapitalistGod said: For retro do you mean prior to 2000? Because if so the funny thing is that most of the highest rated reviewed shows by TAS are after that year. Just taking his top10 reviewed you can find only 3 shows prior to 2000 which are LOGH, Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion.Gesu- said: I think their judgement doesn't even go that far. Some people look at it's year and get into the series assuming it's gonna be bad. Some people are that close minded. look at this guy for example; http://myanimelist.net/animelist/tragedydesu Pretty much the poster boy for that one...haha! Speaking of posterboys.... This guy is another one... I mean, it's Snob who inspired me to make this post... haha! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| *cough* Pardon me, I couldn't even handle Code GeAss. How do you expect me handle your retro? >.> |
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Z-Dante said: *cough* Pardon me, I couldn't even handle Code GeAss. How do you expect me handle your retro? >.> Since when was Code Geass retro?..... |
GoldenKappa said: I'm comparing the Artstyle quality. Z-Dante said: *cough* Pardon me, I couldn't even handle Code GeAss. How do you expect me handle your retro? >.> Since when was Code Geass retro?..... Code Geass is fairly modern ( 2007) and well received but it got some freakin' terrible Artstyle. If I can't handle the code Geass graphics, how am I supposed to handle the Retro ones? |
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| Retro anime has it's own fair share of bad titles as well, it's just they look at it through a vacuum where only those that stood the test of time are recognized. In the end, it's all a matter of preference. |
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