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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- I will edit this post later when the Eng. translation is up(I don't trust Google translate). I need to know what they're talking about Utsuro really is. ------------------------------------ EDIT: Rough translations of 593 593 Translation by Kewl and BDR This is the end Oboro... So, Utsuro is longing to become a human, to meet his end, to end his infinte suffering. Countless times he was tortured and killed, countless times he resurrected. Even with these translations, I couldn't understand anything. I need more enlightenment. |
lagba2Jun 23, 2016 6:55 PM
 NANDESUKA KORE? |
| I don't even know the hell's going on here man. Most of it seems like flashbacks of his previous lives or whatever, but how does he keep killing himself wtf. Are there really more Utsuros? |
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| Same here i have no idea what i just read. Are there other utsuros? Are they clones or something? I dont get anything |
| Such a dialogue heavy chapter, this chapters looks like it'd be the best in the arc once translated. The transitions were phenomenal. |
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| Basically this chapter was all about Utsuro's past and how he turned into Shouyo and vice versa which is really interesting Utsuro went through a countless of torture or death in the past until he began to resist or wanting to change which is why he created "Yoshida Shouyo". The reason why he saved Gintoki is because he could relate to him (both were called as monsters when they were young). And so he keeps resisting Utsuro inside himself and live as Yoshida Shouyo. However in the end, he got captured and beheaded by Gintoki or Utsuro himself. The clones you see in this chapter was just part of the imagery of his past deaths. I hope this could be somewhat accurate based on the Korean scans I've read |
| I guess this chapter is more weird than confusing. It's really cool how this chapter shows the similarity between Gintoki and Utsuro, as both were known as demons before. So is it possible for the Shouyou personality to come back if he resists the Utsuro personality, or is the Shouyou personality permanently dead? 5/5 |
GoldenDevilGamerJun 24, 2016 9:20 AM
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| Really interesting chapter. Never liked Utsuro much but the explanation for Shouyou and his "death" was surprisingly interesting. |
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| Many shit is happening in the recent chapters, i really think Sorachi-senpai might end it soon. Anyway, im just hoping for a "happy arc" after all this serious shit... |
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| i found it pretty simple, i don't understand why it's soo hard to understand.. edgy as fuck thou... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Weird chapter but I really liked the insight about Utsuro. reireinatto said: Basically this chapter was all about Utsuro's past and how he turned into Shouyo and vice versa which is really interesting Utsuro went through a countless of torture or death in the past until he began to resist or wanting to change which is why he created "Yoshida Shouyo". The reason why he saved Gintoki is because he could relate to him (both were called as monsters when they were young). And so he keeps resisting Utsuro inside himself and live as Yoshida Shouyo. However in the end, he got captured and beheaded by Gintoki or Utsuro himself. The clones you see in this chapter was just part of the imagery of his past deaths. I hope this could be somewhat accurate based on the Korean scans I've read Thanks for the explanation, I understood this much more clearer now. |
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reireinatto said: Basically this chapter was all about Utsuro's past and how he turned into Shouyo and vice versa which is really interesting Utsuro went through a countless of torture or death in the past until he began to resist or wanting to change which is why he created "Yoshida Shouyo". The reason why he saved Gintoki is because he could relate to him (both were called as monsters when they were young). And so he keeps resisting Utsuro inside himself and live as Yoshida Shouyo. However in the end, he got captured and beheaded by Gintoki or Utsuro himself. The clones you see in this chapter was just part of the imagery of his past deaths. I hope this could be somewhat accurate based on the Korean scans I've read Thnx for summing that up. It is an interesting chapter. So utsuro created this double personality aka shouyo as a means to escape his past. And that scene with him as a child, so he was born immortal like kouka then? |
Chalo08 said: reireinatto said: Basically this chapter was all about Utsuro's past and how he turned into Shouyo and vice versa which is really interesting Utsuro went through a countless of torture or death in the past until he began to resist or wanting to change which is why he created "Yoshida Shouyo". The reason why he saved Gintoki is because he could relate to him (both were called as monsters when they were young). And so he keeps resisting Utsuro inside himself and live as Yoshida Shouyo. However in the end, he got captured and beheaded by Gintoki or Utsuro himself. The clones you see in this chapter was just part of the imagery of his past deaths. I hope this could be somewhat accurate based on the Korean scans I've read Thnx for summing that up. It is an interesting chapter. So utsuro created this double personality aka shouyo as a means to escape his past. And that scene with him as a child, so he was born immortal like kouka then? Not really. Throughout his years being killed over and over (this is before 500 years ago. When he was in the cellar) he started creating multiple personalities. Not just one. As he was a Naraku during those 500 years one of the personalities (Shoyo) started suppressing the other personalities until he was the only one left (other than the original ofc). And thus he lived as Shoyo until the time came where he was gonna be killed by Gin. The Original Utsuro was in control after that. But yes He was born immortal tho |
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| This was surprisingly complex, I never expected Sorachi to go into this direction. But I'm still missing the comedy and most importantly, I'm thrilled to finally get more (casual) Joui4 interaction! How long have we waited for the boys to get together again... |
[.center]  [./center] |
Kuma said: i found it pretty simple, i don't understand why it's soo hard to understand.. edgy as fuck thou... We read the Chinese scans, plus this time the pages were scattered, and the page where he kills himself like Gintoki killed him were in the middle of reading for me, it got me confused. But luckily English translation got out really fast so we're good. |
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reireinatto said: this is what i get in this chapter....However in the end, he got captured and beheaded by Gintoki or Utsuro himself. The clones you see in this chapter was just part of the imagery of his past deaths. I hope this could be somewhat accurate based on the Korean scans I've read since utsuru deny his immortality on his mind because that mean he haas to burden the whole painful experience he get as one, he prefer to deny his previous experience... each time he dies, his mind automaticaly make new personality that have no relation with the past personality and only use the past memories without take any burden/bound out of it... yoshida shouyou character is distortion of those personality after life enough live and start to developing feelings after experience he get... (which one exactly this part is still blurry... my guess is with oboro as showed in oboro flashback and the monolugue he give when reviving oboro)... the apperence another child that also called "oni" make him even more relate to human (which he already thrown away in the past because his immortality) and make him want to feel it too (feelings to be human).. but in the end, he got killed by gintoki, which mean again, he has to deleting shouyo personality that developed before and growing new personality that sadly, has no bound with previous personality... only take memory from it without have any relationship with shouyo at all.. TL;DR so the part when gintoki and utsuro killing shouyo mean: yes, shouyo already dies the time when gintoki slice that head... but no, gintoki is not the one that killed shouyo.. it was utsuro and utsuro replace shouyo place in that body.. there is no connection left between shouyo, utsuro, and shouyo student except utsuro replace shouyo personality in that cursed body... |
KumaJun 24, 2016 6:05 AM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Didn't think that Gintama's story can get so complicated. Good read nonetheless |
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| Holy shit, I always know Sorachi is a great writer, and now he exceed my expectation again by introducing DID into the picture. I have to say that he handle his characters's psychology aspect extremely well. And I'm always a huge sucker for DID stuff, so this explanation is an instant win for me. |
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| As I said before, once translated, this might be the best chapter in this arc and for me, I think this chapter did it. I loved the way the whole thing was told, about his multi-personality disorder and how Gintoki was similar to him. Great chapter, loved it. I think this will be glorious if it gets a chance to be animated. |
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| Quite a confusing chapter. |
"I’ve set myself to become the King of the Pirates…and if I die trying…then at least I tried!" Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece) |
Kuma said: i found it pretty simple, i don't understand why it's soo hard to understand.. edgy as fuck thou... Dude if you think this is edgy, then you obviously don't know what real edgy post is. Let me show you some real edgy posts, beware for the skin cuts. |
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CG-Silver said: Okay, you got me at the 3rd picture of Kabaneri. Legit laughed out loud from that.Kuma said: i found it pretty simple, i don't understand why it's soo hard to understand.. edgy as fuck thou... Dude if you think this is edgy, then you obviously don't know what real edgy post is. Let me show you some real edgy posts, beware for the skin cuts. |
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CG-Silver said: dude what? no, i don't said edgy as critics/ bad things. it's just using sharp turn to tell the story and this did it in extream way... Kuma said: i found it pretty simple, i don't understand why it's soo hard to understand.. edgy as fuck thou... Dude if you think this is edgy, then you obviously don't know what real edgy post is. Let me show you some real edgy posts, beware for the skin cuts. especiality in those multiple personality part... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Barion-Zara said: Chalo08 said: Thnx for summing that up. It is an interesting chapter. So utsuro created this double personality aka shouyo as a means to escape his past. And that scene with him as a child, so he was born immortal like kouka then? Not really. Throughout his years being killed over and over (this is before 500 years ago. When he was in the cellar) he started creating multiple personalities. Not just one. As he was a Naraku during those 500 years one of the personalities (Shoyo) started suppressing the other personalities until he was the only one left (other than the original ofc). And thus he lived as Shoyo until the time came where he was gonna be killed by Gin. The Original Utsuro was in control after that. But yes He was born immortal tho Now that I re-read it again through the English version, yes it's actually Utsuro have made multiple personalities and Yoshida Shouyo was the last one remaining. The multiple Utsuro in the cellar scene was referring to the personalities, not his past deaths. I must've misread it earlier so I apologize for that. But still, this chapter left me in awe for the complexity of Utsuro's character. The foreshadowing about Nobume's line about Utsuro was the one who kills Shouyo makes sense now. Sorachi's such a brilliant writer and I cannot wait how's the final battle gonna be like |
Kuma said: CG-Silver said: dude what? no, i don't said edgy as critics/ bad things. it's just using sharp turn to tell the story and this did it in extream way... Dude if you think this is edgy, then you obviously don't know what real edgy post is. Let me show you some real edgy posts, beware for the skin cuts. especiality in those multiple personality part... Oh ok .............. if you ever feel you're not edgy enough, feel free to take a look at these posts. This is my daily dose of edgy-ness. |
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| Damn so Shouyou as we knew him was struggling, even when taking care of Gintoki of Co? That's just sad :( A character who was just a minor character in the beginning shows up to be one of the most complex and deepest in the show...I really didn't expect that tbh. |
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CG-Silver said: Kuma said: dude what? no, i don't said edgy as critics/ bad things. it's just using sharp turn to tell the story and this did it in extream way... especiality in those multiple personality part... Oh ok .............. if you ever feel you're not edgy enough, feel free to take a look at these posts. This is my daily dose of edgy-ness. I don't understand edgy (I'm serious) anyone can told me? |
HiatusXHiatus said: I don't understand edgy (I'm serious) anyone can told me? From Urban Dictionary: The act of being edgy is basically teenage kids that think they're cool. Hardcore kids seem to think they're the fucking edgy-est things ever. |
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| Now that ive read the English translation im very proud of gorilla's depth in writing. The complexity of utsuros character is the one of the best ive seen in this series. |
| What a cruel fate Utsuro had, all that suffering made him snap. |
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