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#1
Jun 17, 2016 6:01 PM

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For those of you who are dissatisfied with the writing, or execution, or the path this anime has taken, Allow me to ask...how would you have done it? What would you do differently? What would you change completely? Is time to show your inner "writer spirit" and post here your version of the story...

But of course, this needs some rules to work:

1. The Koutetsujou (Train) needs to exist and events involving the train need to occur periodically. It wouldn't be Koutetsujou no Kabaneri otherwise...

2. The fact that Kabane have almost impenetrable heart cages must not change. Otherwise they would just be another creature...

3. The already introduced characters of the anime must not cease to exist. You can change their actions and development, but they must exist...

Now, with those rules in mind, be free, do whatever you want, it's all you ;)
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
#2
Jun 17, 2016 7:21 PM

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I've been asking myself that question as well since I started watching this. While not as poorly executed compared with other anime, this one so far was still a hit and miss. Great potential, but the story ended up suffering because it became too predictable, especially with Siba.

I'm seriously considering doing a Anime That Deserved Better discussion on this show, but that will take some time seeing that there's still two episodes left and that I'm still finishing up my first one centered on Chivalry of a Failed Knight before doing one centered on The Asterisk War.

Ask again when this series is finished.
"You talk too much. Think too much."
"I don't care how justified you think your reasons are. I won't tolerate liars or thieves."
"If you're not going to be nice to me, don't expect me to be nice to you."
"I'm a soldier, not a superhero. Don't ever think of me as one."
"The world doesn't revolve around you. Get that through your thick skull."
"People who live by their emotions go nowhere in their lives. They only find misery.
"If you don't like the way your life is than do something about it instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself."
"You want something go get it. Period."
 
#3
Jun 17, 2016 11:54 PM

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I was so hyped for steampunk heavy metal adventures on a train!

I'm no clever writer. I would have been much more satisfied with even a simple, straightforward [rail]road trip with escalating Kabane as the only enemies - a quest for a macguffin, or to get out of slavery dystopia to paradise island or whatever. A self-aware dumb story is far better than trying to be smart and failing.

Whatever it is, it should follow a rule: if the conflict you want can only be triggered by something incredibly stupid that will make your audience seethe, then stop. Find a different conflict to write about.

Biba should be an actual human character who can be understood and sympathized with. His evil choices should be relatively minor, and should make sense given his motivation and origin story. His POV should give the other characters, and the show's audience, a moral dilemma with no easy answer. Say, he doesn't commit mass genocide, but he does turn people into Kabaneri - often without their consent - creating a powerful fighting force that has staved off waves of Kabane and saved many human lives. And what if children actually make the strongest Kabaneri - make up some nonsense about how they have more "potential life energy" or whatever - and Mumei is only one of many children he's turned? Many people still support burning children with firebombing and nuclear bombs "to save lives" in WWII; turning them into Kabaneri fighters who can save their people is actually better than that, no?

I can't decide what to do with Mumei, to get her out of the oblivious character trope. She could have already rebelled at the beginning, but that would collapse her arc. And I had some thoughts about an almost Children of Men type scenario, where children are rare and valuable, and the heroes could protect some kids from being recruited by Biba... but I couldn't figure out how to make it all work with an internally consistent world, at least not at 2:30 AM. :D

It's certainly fun to think about what could have been. Fans on the internet often resort to "let's see you do better," but that evades the point. People who can't cook can still critique food, even if they couldn't make it better themselves.
 
#4
Jun 18, 2016 12:27 AM

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It'll be easier to respond to this after the series is over, because there're still a bunch of things which haven't been explained. It seems what most people would have liked is if Biba wasn't evil and instead of dealing with him the Kotetsujyo crew kept battling unique Kabane. They could arrive at Kongokaku earlier in the series then start going on the offensive with (or without) the Hunters, seeking Kabane hordes and taking them down.

There's a problem with that though. Not only do I think it would be too draining animating almost constant Kabane battles, but also it would get kinda boring and repetitive without some sort of human conflict just because of how powerful the Kotetsujyo crew and the Hunters are. You would literally have to take away almost all of their technology for the Kabane to stand a chance, and even then if the Kotetsujyo crew/Hunters have a way to pierce their hearts, it's not going to be a very interesting battle. A lot of people don't seem to understand human conflict is a must. If Biba and the Hunters were all nice and everyone got along, I'm honestly not sure how interesting things would have remained. That's why as of now I don't have a problem with the story. How would you have done it, HyperL?
 
#5
Jun 18, 2016 12:55 AM
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BIBA should not exsist..
that is all...

even if he exsist... he should not be an enemy but a comrade...

it should be 24 episodes...

12 episodes about chara development and action pure on train

another 12 episodes about more chara development..but mainly on ikoma and mumei conflict..
then BIBA appeared... as a friend... not an enemy..
and biba dies, while ikoma becoming more and more stronger than biba... to protect mumei..

simple! the final bos should be black smoke...
 
#6
Jun 18, 2016 1:10 AM
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12 episode is just stupid if u adding human conflict..
for me the series end as 7 episodes beautifull 140 minutes movie
while epiode 8-12 is just a koutetsujo no FUFUMOFUU !! *shimo kawa mikuni TOMMOROW playin on BGM
 
#7
Jun 18, 2016 1:44 AM

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moncikoma said:
12 episode is just stupid if u adding human conflict..
for me the series end as 7 episodes beautifull 140 minutes movie
while epiode 8-12 is just a koutetsujo no FUFUMOFUU !! *shimo kawa mikuni TOMMOROW playin on BGM
Human conflict is what made episodes 1-6 interesting in my opinion. I can't imagine humans/Kabaneri who work well together having consistently interesting battles with the Kabane (because then battles would essentially only be like the one in episode 8), but maybe that's just me.
 
#8
Jun 18, 2016 2:43 AM
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1. Mumei is the only Kabaneri(revealed later in the story). Ikoma is the cool headed science guy that makes new weapons.
2. Story takes place most of the time in the Koutetsujou.
3. No bullshit armed Kabaneri, fused colony or beam spam kabaneri.
4. Koutetsujou is basically a delivery train that delivers supplies and weapons to other towns.
5. Biba is introduced in the beginning and he is the guy that resolves conflict through violence. His motto is no retreat no surrender. He dies a dramatic death fighting a horde of Kabane by himself.
6. Story is basically about Ikoma finding a way to defeat the Kabane through science.
7. The cure is actually Mumei. She developed anti-bodies to combat the Kabane virus. Ikoma uses her anti bodies to create a vaccine. Humans now have a fighting chance. The end.
 
#9
Jun 18, 2016 6:10 AM

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It's a fun action anime with decent pacing and it's not really trying to be anything more.

Idk what people are complaining about honestly as it's been pretty simple since the beginning. I hear a lot of people say its like "Guilty Crown" but it doesn't have any crazy plot twists as its been fairly generic so far. If this was like that, Ikoma would have turned evil or something.

My guess though is people have a problem with it because they wanted the anime to slow down a bit. If that's the case the only thing I would really change is give us a few more episodes to really seep in how much Biba had kind of corrupted Mumei's behavior.

Idk I'm fine with a simple anime. People complain about Biba, but technically this has always been about the human's reaction to the Kabane then the Kabane themselves. So I believe it makes sense for the main baddie to actually be a human instead.

Maybe people wanted something deeper? If so I'm not sure why they were looking here.
 
Jun 18, 2016 11:14 AM

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hyperknees91 said:
People complain about Biba, but technically this has always been about the human's reaction to the Kabane then the Kabane themselves. So I believe it makes sense for the main baddie to actually be a human instead.


The problem with Biba is that he's practically his own version of Bane from The Dark Knight Rises. And when he's talking to Mumei, he's pretty turns into the Joker when he was talking to Harvey Dent in the hospital.
"You talk too much. Think too much."
"I don't care how justified you think your reasons are. I won't tolerate liars or thieves."
"If you're not going to be nice to me, don't expect me to be nice to you."
"I'm a soldier, not a superhero. Don't ever think of me as one."
"The world doesn't revolve around you. Get that through your thick skull."
"People who live by their emotions go nowhere in their lives. They only find misery.
"If you don't like the way your life is than do something about it instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself."
"You want something go get it. Period."
 
Jun 18, 2016 12:45 PM

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DirectorK said:
hyperknees91 said:
People complain about Biba, but technically this has always been about the human's reaction to the Kabane then the Kabane themselves. So I believe it makes sense for the main baddie to actually be a human instead.


The problem with Biba is that he's practically his own version of Bane from The Dark Knight Rises. And when he's talking to Mumei, he's pretty turns into the Joker when he was talking to Harvey Dent in the hospital.


So he puts on a mask to hide the fact that he's a crazed guy?

Biba is a simple generic villain indeed but hey, that's just how the show is. I imagine he's this way so he's just fun to watch being taken down.
 
Jun 18, 2016 1:19 PM

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hyperknees91 said:
So he puts on a mask to hide the fact that he's a crazed guy?

Biba is a simple generic villain indeed but hey, that's just how the show is. I imagine he's this way so he's just fun to watch being taken down.


Pretty much. I mean up until he actually appears for the first time we knew there was something not quite right about him. His motivations, plans, and manipulations all resemble Bane and the Joker.

If they wanted to portray as a sympathetic villain they should have portray him as the Captain Nemo of this series. At least that's how I would have done it.
"You talk too much. Think too much."
"I don't care how justified you think your reasons are. I won't tolerate liars or thieves."
"If you're not going to be nice to me, don't expect me to be nice to you."
"I'm a soldier, not a superhero. Don't ever think of me as one."
"The world doesn't revolve around you. Get that through your thick skull."
"People who live by their emotions go nowhere in their lives. They only find misery.
"If you don't like the way your life is than do something about it instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself."
"You want something go get it. Period."
 
Jun 18, 2016 3:52 PM

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Well I don't the series has really tried to make him sympathetic. If they wanted to, they could have had 1-2 episode flashback of his tragic past and betrayal. But really like said before I think he's mainly there to be a villain figure.
 
Jun 18, 2016 5:27 PM

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Phoebe3315 said:
It'll be easier to respond to this after the series is over, because there're still a bunch of things which haven't been explained. It seems what most people would have liked is if Biba wasn't evil and instead of dealing with him the Kotetsujyo crew kept battling unique Kabane. They could arrive at Kongokaku earlier in the series then start going on the offensive with (or without) the Hunters, seeking Kabane hordes and taking them down.

There's a problem with that though. Not only do I think it would be too draining animating almost constant Kabane battles, but also it would get kinda boring and repetitive without some sort of human conflict just because of how powerful the Kotetsujyo crew and the Hunters are. You would literally have to take away almost all of their technology for the Kabane to stand a chance, and even then if the Kotetsujyo crew/Hunters have a way to pierce their hearts, it's not going to be a very interesting battle. A lot of people don't seem to understand human conflict is a must. If Biba and the Hunters were all nice and everyone got along, I'm honestly not sure how interesting things would have remained. That's why as of now I don't have a problem with the story. How would you have done it, HyperL?


Modified by HyperL, Jun 18, 2016 5:32 PM
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
Jun 18, 2016 5:51 PM

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HyperL said:
Phoebe3315 said:
It'll be easier to respond to this after the series is over, because there're still a bunch of things which haven't been explained. It seems what most people would have liked is if Biba wasn't evil and instead of dealing with him the Kotetsujyo crew kept battling unique Kabane. They could arrive at Kongokaku earlier in the series then start going on the offensive with (or without) the Hunters, seeking Kabane hordes and taking them down.

There's a problem with that though. Not only do I think it would be too draining animating almost constant Kabane battles, but also it would get kinda boring and repetitive without some sort of human conflict just because of how powerful the Kotetsujyo crew and the Hunters are. You would literally have to take away almost all of their technology for the Kabane to stand a chance, and even then if the Kotetsujyo crew/Hunters have a way to pierce their hearts, it's not going to be a very interesting battle. A lot of people don't seem to understand human conflict is a must. If Biba and the Hunters were all nice and everyone got along, I'm honestly not sure how interesting things would have remained. That's why as of now I don't have a problem with the story. How would you have done it, HyperL?


Okay, that's understandable. I'm not sure how he would have gotten through the station in episode 9 without having to kill people, though. If he tried to force his way through a bunch of the guards would probably start shooting at him, and they'd warn the people at Kongokaku so Biba wouldn't have a good chance of getting revenge without resorting to killing innocent people. Honestly...the Shogun sounds almost as bad as Biba to me. He basically sent 400,000 people to their deaths.

Again, I'll have to see the final two episodes before I can really judge how I feel about the previous two.
 
Jun 18, 2016 5:56 PM

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hmm... I think there's nothing wrong with this anime...
but Biba ruined it...
 
Jun 18, 2016 6:40 PM

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Phoebe3315 said:
HyperL said:


Okay, that's understandable. I'm not sure how he would have gotten through the station in episode 9 without having to kill people, though. If he tried to force his way through a bunch of the guards would probably start shooting at him, and they'd warn the people at Kongokaku so Biba wouldn't have a good chance of getting revenge without resorting to killing innocent people. Honestly...the Shogun sounds almost as bad as Biba to me. He basically sent 400,000 people to their deaths.

Again, I'll have to see the final two episodes before I can really judge how I feel about the previous two.


You now how Biba just released his horde of kabane into the station? In other to pass through, Biba could've threaten the boss of the place of releasing the kabane if he didn't let the train pass. For the sake of his people, the boss would have no other choice but to comply and let the train pass. Biba then would be able to progress without really harming any citizens...
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
Jun 18, 2016 7:39 PM

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HyperL said:
Phoebe3315 said:
Okay, that's understandable. I'm not sure how he would have gotten through the station in episode 9 without having to kill people, though. If he tried to force his way through a bunch of the guards would probably start shooting at him, and they'd warn the people at Kongokaku so Biba wouldn't have a good chance of getting revenge without resorting to killing innocent people. Honestly...the Shogun sounds almost as bad as Biba to me. He basically sent 400,000 people to their deaths.

Again, I'll have to see the final two episodes before I can really judge how I feel about the previous two.
You now how Biba just released his horde of kabane into the station? In other to pass through, Biba could've threaten the boss of the place of releasing the kabane if he didn't let the train pass. For the sake of his people, the boss would have no other choice but to comply and let the train pass. Biba then would be able to progress without really harming any citizens...
There's a big problem with that. The only reason Mumei opened the gate was because she didn't think Kabane would be let in. If he sent her to open the gate and then threatened to let Kabane in, there would be a small window of time while the gate remained open. For a threat like that to actually work while people are aiming a gun at his head, he would have to have it set up such that if the Hunters didn't receive some special signal within a short amount of time (maybe have them use the signal in the beginning of ep 7 to communicate with trains?), they would go ahead and release the Kabane. But Mumei is there expecting the train to hurry through, not to mention Ikoma trying to stop what's happening. Maeda would have to decide very quickly that Biba is not bluffing and agree to let him through for the threat to have a chance of working and not lead to the massacre. In other words, the chances of that working are really freaking low.

After reading the extra bit on Biba's background I do think it makes sense that he did what he did. It's not just that he needs by. He hates the stations, understandably so.

Edit: Oops, I guess I was overthinking things above. They could just drive the train in and then Biba could say if he didn't get back to the train within a short period of time and be allowed to pass through they would release the Kabane. This would actually have a pretty good chance of working; Ayame could even verify Kabane were indeed on the train. Still, what Biba did isn't out of character given his past, and some of what happened will likely play an important part in the future. That's why I keep saying the last two episodes will shape how I view episode 9.
Modified by Phoebe3315, Jun 18, 2016 8:20 PM
 
Jun 18, 2016 8:06 PM

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The biggest problem I have with this anime is their inconsistency about Kabane.

When they introduced Kabane's weak point, I imagined it similiar to Titan's nape, which is the only way you could kill them. But throughout the series, it has been shown that you can kill them by other means, like decapitating, or basically crush their head. If that's the case, why bother trying to figure out how to penetrate the heart cage? Just make a gun strong enough to blow their heads up. They told us so many times that the heart cage is super strong so I assumed the skull won't be nearly as hard to destroy. It'll save more time and resource.

And about the Kabane itself-I honestly don't understand what kind of creatures are they trying to make. The Kabane is 'born' from human, yeah, but do they intend to retain the 'human' part or not? I thought that Kabane is just like how zombie is, y'know, human without a functional brain and left with instinct alone. But looks like the Kabanes are capable of learning, and they can be emotionally triggered. Does that mean that Kabanes are actually still human but doesn't have 'human' consciousness?

It really irritates me that they just make the Kabane a super creature without reasoning. And don't even make me starts on the Kabaneris.

And another problem: Biba. He literally just there to serve as a villain, an evil for the sake of being evil. For this one, though, I can tolerate it because... well, they only have 12 eps.
 
Jun 18, 2016 8:26 PM

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Phoebe3315 said:
HyperL said:
You now how Biba just released his horde of kabane into the station? In other to pass through, Biba could've threaten the boss of the place of releasing the kabane if he didn't let the train pass. For the sake of his people, the boss would have no other choice but to comply and let the train pass. Biba then would be able to progress without really harming any citizens...
There's a big problem with that. The only reason Mumei opened the gate was because she didn't think Kabane would be let in. If he sent her to open the gate and then threatened to let Kabane in, there would be a small window of time while the gate remained open. For a threat like that to actually work while people are aiming a gun at his head, he would have to have it set up such that if the Hunters didn't receive some special signal within a short amount of time (maybe have them use the signal in the beginning of ep 7 to communicate with trains?), they would go ahead and release the Kabane. But Mumei is there expecting the train to hurry through, not to mention Ikoma trying to stop what's happening. Maeda would have to decide very quickly that Biba is not bluffing and agree to let him through for the threat to have a chance of working and not lead to the massacre. In other words, the chances of that working are really freaking low.

After reading the extra bit on Biba's background I do think it makes sense that he did what he did. It's not just that he needs by. He hates the stations, understandably so.


If I remember well, Horobi was also there at the meeting, she's a kabaneri, if she showed the glowing spot of her body and proved Biba carry such monstrosities with him, the Boss wouldn't have much more to doubt that Biba is saying the truth about the horde...Horobi can survive shots from normal guns too so she's not in danger...

And man, I know that they're working with limited space but it's a huge shame that they don't expose all these details in the anime itself...
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
Jun 18, 2016 8:31 PM

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KannaAyasaki said:
But throughout the series, it has been shown that you can kill them by other means, like decapitating, or basically crush their head. If that's the case, why bother trying to figure out how to penetrate the heart cage? Just make a gun strong enough to blow their heads up.
You're wrong. Piercing the Kabane's heart IS the only way to kill them. Decapitating will immobilize them for at least a bit, sure, but there's definitely a problem with not actually piercing the heart. Rewatch the scene in episode 9 where Mumei tries to save the mother and daughter. She beheads a Kabane, then stabs it in the heart, causing the light in its eyes to fade. It wasn't dead until pierced in the heart.
I thought that Kabane is just like how zombie is, y'know, human without a functional brain and left with instinct alone. But looks like the Kabanes are capable of learning, and they can be emotionally triggered.
...If you wanted a straight-up zombie anime, this isn't it. I thought they made it pretty clear from the beginning that Kabane aren't your typical zombies, seeing as in episode 1 a Kabane was operating a train, another was wielding a knife, and another copied the pointing motion of a little girl.
 
Jun 18, 2016 8:35 PM

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HyperL said:
I know that they're working with limited space but it's a huge shame that they don't expose all these details in the anime itself...
The anime isn't over. :l They'll likely include it in the next episode.
 
Jun 19, 2016 6:40 AM

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HyperL said:
Phoebe3315 said:
It'll be easier to respond to this after the series is over, because there're still a bunch of things which haven't been explained. It seems what most people would have liked is if Biba wasn't evil and instead of dealing with him the Kotetsujyo crew kept battling unique Kabane. They could arrive at Kongokaku earlier in the series then start going on the offensive with (or without) the Hunters, seeking Kabane hordes and taking them down.

There's a problem with that though. Not only do I think it would be too draining animating almost constant Kabane battles, but also it would get kinda boring and repetitive without some sort of human conflict just because of how powerful the Kotetsujyo crew and the Hunters are. You would literally have to take away almost all of their technology for the Kabane to stand a chance, and even then if the Kotetsujyo crew/Hunters have a way to pierce their hearts, it's not going to be a very interesting battle. A lot of people don't seem to understand human conflict is a must. If Biba and the Hunters were all nice and everyone got along, I'm honestly not sure how interesting things would have remained. That's why as of now I don't have a problem with the story. How would you have done it, HyperL?




This isn't that type of human conflict anime. This is more of, what effects do the Kabane have on humanities psyche? For example them shooting that innocent guy in the first episode just because they give into fear. How they shamelessly hated on Ikoma in the first couple of episodes despite him doing no harm and saving their asses.

Biba on the flip side is not suppose to be a sympathetic villain. He's not even suppose to be a guy whose suppose to be seen as doing the right thing (as it's very clear by both Mumei and Ikoma's reactions that they think he is very easily wrong). Biba is simple a guy who submitted to his fear/revenge because of his tragic past and now wants to wreck everything that caused it.

Why didn't he just threaten to let the Kabane in? I imagine because as soon as he learned that is what his dad that abandoned him in the previous episode he kinda lost it a bit more. Now he wants to kill those who support them, and subject the same fear and pain to the people that always cowered from it.

If this actually wanted to be about moral dilemmas and psychology and grey areas all over the place ala Monster. It would need to be slower paced and less based on action. This was never that kind of show, but it's also giving it too little credit by saying the show didn't adequately set up this kind of villain. Remember not every villain needs to be sympathetic/human. Being threatening/entertaining is also fine enough.
 
Jun 19, 2016 8:19 AM

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It should of been like this:


1. It would be best if it is actually Biba that was really fighting against the kabane for real. They are the most Elite, and they have the resolve to die for their fight. They should have a dark sense of justice that don't involve the innocent.

2. Twist should be that the government are the ones who caused the kabane problem. Biba's group discovered the reality and were persecuted.

3. Instead of destroying fortresses they should of recruited people for their cause.
like saving a station to add to their rebellion.

4. Ikoma should of been their lead scientist in kabane research to improve their war potential. He be like making artificial kabaneri's or something to volunteers.

5. Mumei should grow-up (not literal). I want her personality to be the same as Mikasa. Cool headed character or something but OP.



6. To sum it up. Their goal is to rehabilitate abandoned fortresses. Research kabane then improve their war potential. Recruit people and turn some volunteers into kabaneri. Enter a civil war with the real culprits while fighting kabane at the same time.
 
Jun 19, 2016 8:30 AM

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Biba should be more like Levi.
A naughty knight should be punished.

 
Jun 19, 2016 8:30 AM

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ravagestorm said:
1. Mumei is the only Kabaneri(revealed later in the story). Ikoma is the cool headed science guy that makes new weapons.
2. Story takes place most of the time in the Koutetsujou.
3. No bullshit armed Kabaneri, fused colony or beam spam kabaneri.
4. Koutetsujou is basically a delivery train that delivers supplies and weapons to other towns.
5. Biba is introduced in the beginning and he is the guy that resolves conflict through violence. His motto is no retreat no surrender. He dies a dramatic death fighting a horde of Kabane by himself.
6. Story is basically about Ikoma finding a way to defeat the Kabane through science.
7. The cure is actually Mumei. She developed anti-bodies to combat the Kabane virus. Ikoma uses her anti bodies to create a vaccine. Humans now have a fighting chance. The end.


That sounds like it would be one of the best anime for a long time coming, and something that would make it as far if not farther that other recent shows like ERASED and Re:Zero have.
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Jun 19, 2016 2:51 PM
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This shit is so stupid there is no saving it.
Dont be a chitogetard!!!!
 
Jun 19, 2016 3:41 PM

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catullus said:
This shit is so stupid there is no saving it.


What do you mean?...You're saying that even the premise of the show is unworkable?
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Jun 19, 2016 6:47 PM
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catullus said:
This shit is so stupid there is no saving it.

Still leagues better than attack on titan.

At least I can say that pinktler could have been Done better.

But with attack on titan,they would intentionally deraill the plot for the sake of their contrived "mystery".

Kabaneri should. appeal to Americans as goods writing.It's very Hollywood like.So I am not disappointed,cause it was set up this way in the first place.


 
Jun 19, 2016 7:35 PM

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I'm no writer, but I'll list what I would have liked to see this series do that it didn't.

1: More time to humanize the characters. The first episode threw us into this conflict and it took until episode 7 before we knew anything about the characters outside of their base traits. Even when we got that episode, it wasn't enough time and now I could care less about how it ends or who dies.

2: More emphasis on the world itself. All we know about it is flooded with zombies the hierarchy sucks. We were never shown exactly why, but were rather told instead. The only thing we saw is in episode 7 when that higher-up guy wanted his gun cleaned and made it very clear that he should be in front of Ikoma because he is of a higher status.

3: More character development for Biba, and for him to be introduced MUCH earlier in the anime. He didn't even get screen time until episode 8, and went pretty much straight into full fledged evil mode. He could have been developed as an odd-duck, but still relatable to a degree before delving further into a villain. It would definitely give more justification to Mumei's faith and trust in Biba. As of right now, it is too stupid to take seriously.
Modified by EternalSerenity, Jun 19, 2016 7:43 PM
 
Jun 19, 2016 7:50 PM

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My biggest problem is it didn't feel like post apocalypse. The tenseness they sorta get right but everything else, no.
 
Jun 19, 2016 9:00 PM
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I agree with ravagestorm's comments in relation to Ikoma. The first episode makes it seem like he'll be more Edward Elric then Naruto, but after getting bitten he just defaults to generic, loud, shounen hero who rarely thinks things through. Edward, particularly in FMA: Brotherhood, does that often too, but less than average. The other characters aren't much better.

I think where the series has struggled the most is the conflict. I don't think it's given you a reason to care whether any of the characters survive or not. Hopefully they all do and the Kabane inherit Japan.
 
Jun 20, 2016 2:13 AM
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HyperL said:
For those of you who are dissatisfied with the writing, or execution, or the path this anime has taken, Allow me to ask...how would you have done it? What would you do differently? What would you change completely? Is time to show your inner "writer spirit" and post here your version of the story...

But of course, this needs some rules to work:

1. The Koutetsujou (Train) needs to exist and events involving the train need to occur periodically. It wouldn't be Koutetsujou no Kabaneri otherwise...

2. The fact that Kabane have almost impenetrable heart cages must not change. Otherwise they would just be another creature...

3. The already introduced characters of the anime must not cease to exist. You can change their actions and development, but they must exist...

Now, with those rules in mind, be free, do whatever you want, it's all you ;)


3 words.

FUCKING ICHIRO OKUCHI.
Modified by JafriZin, Jun 20, 2016 5:41 AM
 
Jun 20, 2016 3:17 AM
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the main and biggest problem is Biba,human conflict only good with 24 ep series not 12
i don't get why the author try to put and solved biba's problem into this show with only few ep,a super kabane/kabane boss battle is alot better for me
 
Jun 21, 2016 7:51 PM

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To everyone who is still on board and still really cares about the characters, that's great. I'm jealous, I wish I could enjoy this show, as it is, like that. Even now I still have some hope it might end strong and bring me back in to some extent.

hyperknees91 said:
Remember not every villain needs to be sympathetic/human. Being threatening/entertaining is also fine enough.


My favorite movie is Return of the King. I think the villain with the most lines and screen time (not counting Denethor as a villain) is Gothmog, the pale orc general with the spongy elephant man face. He just wants to exterminate humanity. Cool, that's great. There could be a clan of Kabaneri who think they should rule as the new master race, like vampires in many stories, with their human cattle.

I'd say that if Biba has to believe he's doing some good for humanity, then sympathetic/human is probably the best way to go. I'm not entertained; I don't expect I'll even care much if he dies, because to me he's not a character at all, he's just a thing the writers did. He's The Thing That Should Not Be.
 
Jun 21, 2016 8:07 PM

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The direction the show is going for is good for Mumei's development, but it's a liability for every other aspect of the show. If this show is truly only going to be 12 episodes and the whole story will be concluded on that 12th episode, then it basically set itself up for disappointment. When you have such a small timeframe, you can't afford to focus on a particular character's development, at least not a character who isn't the main protagonist. What can possibly come of the story now? Biba is defeated and the Koutetsujou makes it to the capitol or whatever and everyone lives happily ever after? So the whole anime was just a glorified and really, really bumpy road trip? And then what if they decide to make a sequel? Make the kabane somehow break in again and start the events of the story all over again?

Seems like they essentially wrote themselves into a corner. Shame really. I'm still enjoying the show but it's been going down hill since episode 1.
 
Jun 22, 2016 3:59 AM

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Protaku said:
The direction the show is going for is good for Mumei's development, but it's a liability for every other aspect of the show. If this show is truly only going to be 12 episodes and the whole story will be concluded on that 12th episode, then it basically set itself up for disappointment. When you have such a small timeframe, you can't afford to focus on a particular character's development, at least not a character who isn't the main protagonist. What can possibly come of the story now?
The thing is, technically the whole story was meant to be focused around Mumei from the beginning. In an interview, the director said the original concept for the show was a girl felling enemies one after another, and they didn't decide until later to make the main main character a boy (Ikoma).

Thinking about it, it makes sense...I mean, as I said above I think the vast majority of the interest in this series comes from human conflict, and Mumei is pretty much the cause of all the human conflict. Without her, the show wouldn't be close to what is, even in the beginning.
Modified by Phoebe3315, Jun 22, 2016 4:06 AM
 
Jun 22, 2016 6:08 AM

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>My favorite movie is Return of the King. I think the villain with the most lines and screen time (not counting Denethor as a villain) is Gothmog, the pale orc general with the spongy elephant man face. He just wants to exterminate humanity. Cool, that's great. There could be a clan of Kabaneri who think they should rule as the new master race, like vampires in many stories, with their human cattle.

I'd say that if Biba has to believe he's doing some good for humanity, then sympathetic/human is probably the best way to go. I'm not entertained; I don't expect I'll even care much if he dies, because to me he's not a character at all, he's just a thing the writers did. He's The Thing That Should Not Be.


I don't think the point is for hin to be sympathetic or humanized. I think he's suppose to be your average corrupted guy who is delusional. I don't think a guy who would blatantly use a young girl for his own revenge plan and toy around with her memories is suppose to be a character you sympathize with primarily.

I mean the flip side is having someone like the female titan in AoT since people like to compare this to that. Who not only had no personality and seemingly no real motivation besides daddy issues, but also the show wanted us to sympathize with her despite her absurdly brutal actions.
 
Jun 22, 2016 9:23 AM
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I'm not really convinced with Biba as a character. He has really interesting ideals about how the strong must survive and the weak must die but it doesn't really justify his slaughters. Like if I was someone who shared his beliefs, I would still not commit mass murder. Someone who could be capable of that needs to be more crazy and fucked up in the head, but Biba as they've shown his appears to be more reasonable. Most of his actions just seem to serve the purpose of creating emotional trauma for the plot.
 
Jun 23, 2016 5:31 PM

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There might have been more of this through the serie but I don't remember.


In the beginning of the serie, it was emphasized on fear to explain the irrational behaviour of many. It's true that fear prevents some to think, but in a survival situation they are also many who used their brain to take advantage of whatever might be to escape. The "let kill the kabaneri on the spot" right after they saved them all would have been a fun idee if it was a comedy ... but it's not.
To make a comparison on this point, the same idea (fear/paralisis/irrationality) is used in SnK but it's better executed and more believable there.


The main character is a pain. He shouts or cry more than he talks, and when he talks, he sounds like a stupid guy who try to use the brain he doesn't have ... and this same guy was able to create great tools to fight kabanes and to save himself from becoming one ... so he does have a brain in theory, too bad it doesn't feel like that. I think all the writting around this character and his behaviour is bad or wrong HOWEVER I can admit that it was an intentional choice of the writters since you can find this kind of stupid MC in other shows and it works somewhat but here it is quite extreme and it can't please so many people.


Not everythings wrong in the show (I won't speak about the good points) but many times I was like "eeeehhh ??????" with the reactions of the characters.
Modified by Ysad_Ziwezhan, Jun 23, 2016 5:37 PM
 
Jun 23, 2016 6:15 PM

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So here's one small idea I just had...

What if they had done Biba's arc on the second season instead pushing it now? Like they actually did another arc with a different story to wrap this season and then in the second season they introduce Biba, give him caracterization (and make him seem nice), carefully build up his "I'm evil" plot twist, do the plot twist in the most epic way possible, do the flashback telling the tale of his tragic life in detail, and them finally make the final confrontation against him in the most epic way possible...In other words a big arc, like the ones in long shonen anime such as One Piece...
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
Jun 23, 2016 11:35 PM

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They should've had Donald Trump make a wall, and have the trains jump over the wall.
Then MC needs to have the secret power to turn into a train to attack the trains.
Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you.
 
Jun 24, 2016 2:29 AM

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ravagestorm said:
1. Mumei is the only Kabaneri(revealed later in the story). Ikoma is the cool headed science guy that makes new weapons.
2. Story takes place most of the time in the Koutetsujou.
3. No bullshit armed Kabaneri, fused colony or beam spam kabaneri.
4. Koutetsujou is basically a delivery train that delivers supplies and weapons to other towns.
5. Biba is introduced in the beginning and he is the guy that resolves conflict through violence. His motto is no retreat no surrender. He dies a dramatic death fighting a horde of Kabane by himself.
6. Story is basically about Ikoma finding a way to defeat the Kabane through science.
7. The cure is actually Mumei. She developed anti-bodies to combat the Kabane virus. Ikoma uses her anti bodies to create a vaccine. Humans now have a fighting chance. The end.
MortalMelancholy said:
They should've had Donald Trump make a wall, and have the trains jump over the wall.
Then MC needs to have the secret power to turn into a train to attack the trains.
Yup...Pretty much these...I just hope this doesnt get a second season or even if it gets one,at least Ikoma and Biba dies so it will be a new show with Mumei as the main character...
 
Jun 24, 2016 2:37 AM

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Ikoma should have been dead earlier and does not become kabaneri. He's too annoying. He can only know how to shout but can't think at all. The action are good though.
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion.

http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30

It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist.
 
Jun 25, 2016 9:50 PM
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I was expecting the extra part takes place after ep6, it would be have more survival arc (ala how to survive zombie I mean kabane apocalypse) before it leads to EP7,

but when the scenario turns out ala Guilty Crown/Valvrave the liberator when "Bieber" show up, the writer had been smoking at this point which it's PATHETIC & UNACCEPTABLE EXCUSE.

I'm not gonna stand this anime plot has reached quite THIS LOW INTO STUPIDITY in terms of quality writing.

WHY? Fucking Ichiro Okuchi.

Oh am I the only person who thought Biba (or Bieber who you want to called) reminds me of Apocalypse (X-men) which his motive,

"Everything they've built will Fall. And from the Ashes of their World, we'll build a better one."?

ravagestorm said:
1. Mumei is the only Kabaneri(revealed later in the story). Ikoma is the cool headed science guy that makes new weapons.
2. Story takes place most of the time in the Koutetsujou.
3. No bullshit armed Kabaneri, fused colony or beam spam kabaneri.
4. Koutetsujou is basically a delivery train that delivers supplies and weapons to other towns.
5. Biba is introduced in the beginning and he is the guy that resolves conflict through violence. His motto is no retreat no surrender. He dies a dramatic death fighting a horde of Kabane by himself.
6. Story is basically about Ikoma finding a way to defeat the Kabane through science.
7. The cure is actually Mumei. She developed anti-bodies to combat the Kabane virus. Ikoma uses her anti bodies to create a vaccine. Humans now have a fighting chance. The end.


THIS IS HOW SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE!! Welp, what else can I say but this anime is coming to an end & I'm really really upset & dissapointed about this.
Modified by JafriZin, Jun 25, 2016 10:31 PM
 
Jun 26, 2016 10:23 PM
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JeffreyZin said:
I was expecting the extra part takes place after ep6, it would be have more survival arc (ala how to survive zombie I mean kabane apocalypse) before it leads to EP7,

but when the scenario turns out ala Guilty Crown/Valvrave the liberator when "Bieber" show up, the writer had been smoking at this point which it's PATHETIC & UNACCEPTABLE EXCUSE.

I'm not gonna stand this anime plot has reached quite THIS LOW INTO STUPIDITY in terms of quality writing.

WHY? Fucking Ichiro Okuchi.

Oh am I the only person who thought Biba (or Bieber who you want to called) reminds me of Apocalypse (X-men) which his motive,

"Everything they've built will Fall. And from the Ashes of their World, we'll build a better one."?

ravagestorm said:
1. Mumei is the only Kabaneri(revealed later in the story). Ikoma is the cool headed science guy that makes new weapons.
2. Story takes place most of the time in the Koutetsujou.
3. No bullshit armed Kabaneri, fused colony or beam spam kabaneri.
4. Koutetsujou is basically a delivery train that delivers supplies and weapons to other towns.
5. Biba is introduced in the beginning and he is the guy that resolves conflict through violence. His motto is no retreat no surrender. He dies a dramatic death fighting a horde of Kabane by himself.
6. Story is basically about Ikoma finding a way to defeat the Kabane through science.
7. The cure is actually Mumei. She developed anti-bodies to combat the Kabane virus. Ikoma uses her anti bodies to create a vaccine. Humans now have a fighting chance. The end.


THIS IS HOW SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE!! Welp, what else can I say but this anime is coming to an end & I'm really really upset & dissapointed about this.


Haha cant agree more
 
Jul 1, 2016 11:19 AM

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Yo, guys, Now that Shingeki no Koutetsujou (Attack on Train) is finally over, is time we revive this thread for real...Let's keep this up until the 'negative hype' dies down...
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
Jul 1, 2016 11:56 AM

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HyperL said:
Yo, guys, Now that Shingeki no Koutetsujou (Attack on Train) is finally over, is time we revive this thread for real...Let's keep this up until the 'negative hype' dies down...
I think a lot of people are mainly just disappointed with 5 episodes revolving around Biba and Kabane becoming less focused on. If they were to make another season and Kabane were the primary focus throughout, I bet many people would be much less upset. I mean, I think having Biba was a good way to bring some focus to the story so there could be a conclusive (yet open) ending. If they do more, the focus would probably be destroying all the Kabane and fulfilling the wishes of the characters. It could be a bit difficult, though, to have consistently interesting Kabane battles unless they somehow ramp things up a lot (without putting too much strain on the animation team)...seeing as how Mumei was stepping on them like ants.
 
Jul 3, 2016 11:43 PM
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Welp, I don't care anymore. They could've give a proper in-story explanation of how the hell did that happened.

Yup, they mostly done it off screen, NO EXPLANATION, AS USUAL till makes me wondering how? When? like other shows are. Why? Because they hired that Idiot writer Ichiro Okuchi who wrote Guilty Crown & valvrave & tried to do similar scenes like those shows are. Yup, sometimes it makes NO sense & everything. Hell when it comes to 12 eps, it has a bunch of time skips that have me wondering what are the characters were doing in-between. Or maybe the fact that director & writer just went lazy with the storylines or something.

I would've called it...

THE DUMBEST WRITING.... EVER.

Geez, I can't believe I've been saying this by asking an in-story explanation but NO one cares by the way... sigh... Even though the show is over, and I still not really satisfied.

Phoebe3315 said:
I think a lot of people are mainly just disappointed with 5 episodes revolving around Biba and Kabane becoming less focused on. If they were to make another season and Kabane were the primary focus throughout, I bet many people would be much less upset. I mean, I think having Biba was a good way to bring some focus to the story so there could be a conclusive (yet open) ending. If they do more, the focus would probably be destroying all the Kabane and fulfilling the wishes of the characters. It could be a bit difficult, though, to have consistently interesting Kabane battles unless they somehow ramp things up a lot (without putting too much strain on the animation team)...seeing as how Mumei was stepping on them like ants.


Would it be better IF they had some sorta extra episodes instead of 'this' excuse (putting only 12 eps & rush it out)? Like 'How to survive the apocalypse'?
Modified by JafriZin, Jul 3, 2016 11:58 PM
 
Jul 4, 2016 12:55 AM

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@JeffreyZin
Yeah, it probably would have been better with more episodes so there could be more build-up and explanation. But they had 12. So I'm not going to complain. The writing for this series is definitely not the "dumbest ever"...Kabaneri's plot makes more sense and is better thought out than Guilty Crown's. If Ichiro Okuchi really makes you that upset you should seriously consider not watching anything else he writes.
 
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