Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Poll: Boogiepop Phantom Episode 12 Discussion


#1
Jan 14, 2010 10:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 424
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Serial Experiments Lain meets Baccano!, what a great series. I'm trying to piece everything into place, I'll re-watched it when I find time or better I'll buy the Novels.
Modified by TuzoAnime, Jan 14, 2010 10:42 PM
 
#2
Mar 7, 2010 9:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 15153
One of the best anime I've ever seen... easily.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
#3
Mar 23, 2010 7:57 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 506
Scoop tickle.
 
#4
Apr 28, 2010 2:21 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Great series, I might buy the light novels for this. It was getting confusing in the middle where the timelines were non-linear and I still have some questions but all in all, I'm glad a watched this.
 
#5
May 27, 2010 1:53 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 65246
That was interesting. I don't think it's awesome though.
 
#6
Jun 28, 2010 12:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1723
insan3soldiern said:
One of the best anime I've ever seen... easily.

This.
Some things needed more focus though.Like the relationship between Toka and Boogiepop(yeah...the shock of seeing a body...how...convenient),the relationship Saotome-Manticore,Toka-Suema.The characters didn't leave a mark on me.They somehow felt like walking mental problems.Also,almost no focus on the organization and Echoes.Also,the story with the organzation felt really conveninent like:''How do we explain this?'',''I dunno...let's introduce a secret organization and an alien''.It didn't bother me that much though.Lol,I think I'm trying to find bad points because it's so good.Overral,I admit that this series is outstanding but I didn't enjoy it as much as I hoped.9.5/10
"This Forest isn't going to reveal all its secrets for the likes of you."
 
#7
Jun 30, 2010 9:13 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 456
Watch the live action "Boogiepop and Others" or read the light novel. It's absolutely necessary to get the full picture. Touka/Boogiepop, Echoes, Saotome/Manticore, et al. are expanded upon.
 
#8
May 4, 2011 1:35 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 219
this was indeed a very very good anime
After I Crush Your Dreams......
Your Bones Will Follow......
 
#9
Jul 2, 2011 2:38 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 418
This ending was not satisfying for me.
Also, I have to disagree with everyone shouting "best anime ever". It had the potential, but it wasted itself on a horrible plot and bland characters with convenient flaws that allow them to develop a mental issue, which seems to be the sole reason for their existence.

Probably the only things this anime excels at are sound effects and the side stories. Each episode focuses on a character and its respective trauma, with some supernatural to spice things up. These are the side stories, and their narrative is basically the series' strongest point. However, since episode 1, you can see there's something big going on in the background, and it just keeps getting more and more disappointing as more footage on it is shown. Footage, yes, because the main plot is only briefly touched on using flashbacks. Nothing is told, nothing is explained.
Case in point: This series' main plot is centered on a single event which is never explained - that pillar of light that showed up (a cataclysm, if we can call it that) when Boogiepop Phantom was created and the Manticore supposedly destroyed, and which was the reason for the strange abilities that some people developed after it. However, the series never explains what even happened. It simply throws pieces of a puzzle that has more imaginary fragments than real ones, as if the viewer is supposed to be the story teller. Nothing on what is Boogiepop, nothing on the secret organization other than it exists, nothing on whatever are Echoes, very little on what is Manticore other than it's an alien, etc.. The series explains nothing. It simply says that these things exist and it's up to the viewer to "imagine" what they're supposed to be.

I really cannot give this more than a 6. Not bad, but could have been so much more.
Modified by Arcanus, Jul 2, 2011 2:43 PM
 
Jul 23, 2011 5:18 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1641
I was wondering how this was going to end, and I have to say I'm not exactly satisfied either. This series had moments in which I loved the overall mood, and it was a good series, but I didn't like the ending and felt like something was missing... although to be fair I haven't read the novels, so I wouldn't know exactly what it is.
 
Jul 4, 2012 7:04 PM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 115454
Not bad although I found Paranoia Agent a bit better.
 
Sep 27, 2012 5:10 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1641
it finally ended although i did not feel satisfied with the series
 
Oct 26, 2012 8:15 AM

Online
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4412
I think I expected some kind of Tetsuo finale, maybe because I saw Lain before this, but now that I think about it, in Lain, it wasn't very effective...

So a very bright, almost colorful and soothing ending, fitting to the name Requiem (Everything will end falling asleep) of the episode.

With the final bits of knowledge provided (like Boogiepop's identity), I think a rewatching is in order. But I disagree with Arcanus, plenty of info is hinted at all the time, and to me the main plot is the side stories: a straight forward story (evil secret organisation that disapprooves of change... this has been overdone) would empoverish a great deal what is a very unique anime. True, it was on the weak side considering the graphics, but all the rest, namely the sound design, montage, directing, writing and characters (easy for a novel, but still)... were excellent. The end might have been a little anti-climatic, but I found it coherent with the rest of the anime.

I wish there were more anime like this. I'm probably gonna check the live action next...
 
Jan 19, 2013 5:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 212
The end was a little weak, more there to tie things up than to really have a climax. All told the series was good, it had some problems in my eyes--the characters were on the weaker side being the most glaring one. All told I give it a 7/10, if it weren't for a couple episodes that I gave 3/5 it would have been an 8/10. I'd recommended it to anyone who likes Lain and Paranoia Agent. My assessment is that it's on a level with Paranoia Agent but far below Lain.
 
Apr 15, 2013 2:49 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
certainly an interesting series. i like it's dark (Lain wannabe) setting. but the end was weak.
 
Apr 22, 2013 11:27 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 170
Real enjoyable show,,,never regret watching it.
 
May 19, 2013 1:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 77
The issue present seems to be that you either know all these little secrets coming in, having watched a live action film or read the books, or don't have a clue about any of the events. And the problem is that it never warns anybody that there is some prerequisite knowledge required to fully understand what's going on and proceeds assuming you did.

The rest is an artistic choice. The focus on side characters has always been a franchise style and it's fitting I think. Really, really fun to put together a plot from the disjointed stories.

Characters were actually quite enjoyable. I think they really represent an issue in society and creates a great dynamic with the pied piper aspect. Maybe it's because I've grappled with some of the issues presented (and, in a Neon Genesis Evangelion fashion, you need to be familiar with the issues to really, really relate to them), or because I love the psychological dynamics this show presents...but it's quite a fun adventure.

I personally liked the last episode. A bit of end tying, as it may be. There needed to be a little bit of a wrap up to let people who are familiar have a little bit of a closing. It's a little slow by comparison, since the show climaxes at the 9-11 mark.

Needless to say, this show feels a bit underrated...but it was its own undoing. It should really include a half episode or something highlighting the original events that it needs you to know. Maybe right at the very end, where it dumps the entire key Boogiepop at Dawn event.
Modified by kirant, May 19, 2013 1:51 AM
Burkeism - Our president is more truculent than yours.
 
Aug 22, 2013 8:16 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1127
For me the series would have been better without the last episode. It was too normal and kind of pointless.
But overall this anime was fun to watch.
 
Jun 25, 2014 9:59 AM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2517
I did enjoy the individual tales as some were interesting and even heart warming.The overall plot was eh.I understood most of it and the only thing that left me confused was the boogiepop said that girl revived kuroda and I didint know who were they talking about.The anime did rap up since all the strings were tied but the only characters that stood out in the overall plot was nagi and manaka.Everyone els just felt there.I liked the overall atmosphere for the anime though.I wonder if leaving those kids with powers stuck on that wall was a good idea.I mean construction does happen so theres a chance they can be killed. Overall it was ok.
Modified by souledge94, Jun 25, 2014 10:05 AM
 
Jul 3, 2014 1:59 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8550
So he was the detective afterall, what do you know. I admit I like the series becasue of the storytelling style, however too much is left unexpained because of the novels that take place before the series. Had those been animated into a series first I think this would be far more enjoyable.

You cannot make a show where people have to read all the novels before and you jump into the middle of the story unless its adequately explained. This is where Baccano and Durarara shine and Boogiepop failed.

So for that I have to drop the score from 8/10 to 6/10.
 
Dec 3, 2014 5:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 13618
I definitely wasn't expecting this kind of ending. A fairly calm ending that ties up the events of the series. I won't claim to understand everything that occurred, but from what I did gather this was a solid experience. Initially I found it to be a bit too dreary and bland but it quickly grew on me and I enjoyed the psychological & philosophical ideas that were brought to the table, such as regret and what our memories mean to us. By the end I felt like the initially dull art complimented the mood of the show well. Not everything should be flashy or top tier art.

I'm not going to nitpick too much since honestly I have no idea where to start anyway. I'll just say that I enjoyed it well enough but I can't say anything revolutionary or awe inspiring clicked in place for me. A rewatch would probably do this series justice but that might have to wait several years, just as I did when slowly unraveling Serial Experiments Lain.

7/10
 
Dec 30, 2014 12:41 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2642
End already.?
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Sep 30, 2015 9:04 PM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602
Solid, but not outstanding, I agree with AlexSadist-sama! Story is a bit too linear for my taste...
 
Jul 31, 2016 5:50 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 81
Final episode was done nice.
A nice ending compared to the tone of the other episodes.

But I didn't get an explanation for a lot of the mysteries. I might have to rewatch this someday. Might watch the live action film instead.
 
Sep 4, 2016 9:57 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1058
A very convoluted mess if you havn't read the source material XD
 
Sep 8, 2016 3:43 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 176
I really enjoyed the first 11 episodes of Boogiepop, but I really didn't much care for this final episode. I honestly think the show would have been much better without this ending.
 
Sep 9, 2016 1:05 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3538
this was a waste of time
 
Mar 12, 2017 2:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 996
Pretentious gobbledygook with bland characters and unexplained plot no doubt to add to the "mystery" of this show. I cared nothing about what occured here, only time I was ever entertained was the amusement park showdown episode. Other than that.. bleh.
 
Mar 22, 2017 5:29 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 174
Meh. Good show. I'd rate it just slightly below Lain. Both of them have their strengths and weaknesses.
The one, significant problem with this anime is the plot's not very focused. It's very obviously a small, condensed part of something much larger. Episodes 1-11 felt like the first half of a 26 episode series.
 
Mar 24, 2017 1:09 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25599
Well I can say that this anime was rather different, in general it was first quite hard to get used to the very colorless and dark atmosphere and in terms of storytelling it also was quite different.

The pacing also fluctuated quite heavily and that did bother me quite a bit, as well as the rather unclear yet clear statements of the whole story line.

But in general a rather interesting and unique anime, but definitely not something I'd recommend or suggest to anyone personally.
 
Jun 8, 2017 9:01 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2471
Grippng the sudden bad turn of devasted tormented within fear comes to an end, Not all ending could be meaningful but it symbolized every tune livin' deep inside our voices. Mostly every story are connected, "the main core of an Important girl since ep 11, once again relies the path of living and open up her on mind to freedom as she doesn't exist outside from our world. Cause the final last standing is naturally a well done.

5/5 Best ending to me :D
Modified by -HippySnob-, Jun 8, 2017 9:06 PM




Dirt on me, I'm finna blossom . . .----
 
Jun 16, 2017 9:01 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1056
High school
A song of the city. The city sings.
Never have I seen a collage of discontented youth portrayed as gorgeously as this
 
Jun 16, 2017 9:10 AM
Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1056
The ending is fukking nice pp. It offers a note of hope, for God sake. Don't you feel for the characters, haven't you nauseated for them? Don't you want a calm denouement to look back and to be given at least some hope for the future???
The plot meh???? Fukkk. This is the most intricately constructed anime everrrr, on par with GITS:SAC. Yeah, read the first novel for God sake. But aside from Manticore and Saotome's flashback, this is unrelated to that novel in theme and focus (except the portrayal of youth's discontent and directionlessness in modern life).
The novels deal with some psychological, relationship problems, even diseases. This does others.
And this is all about the "side" characters anyway, and how their stories and hopes and dreams are linked together by a girl who want to create a kingdom of friendship, of children, of the past. Longing for the past is not a theme of the 1st novel at all, this is totally new.
 
Oct 17, 2017 2:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 6435
This series was incomplete for me because there was that light that seemed to be the cause, how did it happen and what caused. We only saw it disappearing with Manaka but not how it came to be, to me it never fully explained also Boogiepop's existence or why boogipop phantom existed also. But this last episode was twisted a bit with Kishida being really Kuroda, they did lookalike but I never guessed but that Manticore is one persistent bastard. I will give it 6/10 for life lessons it taught, also because it had that edgy feeling and dark aura but picture it was old and cranky.
Modified by lihle808, Oct 17, 2017 2:36 PM
¡Ay, caramba! --- Bart Simpson

 
Jan 16, 2018 3:53 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 79
tbh I get exhausted with these "cerebral", "delve into the human psyche" animes, and this series made me realize two major reasons why. The lesser of the two being that its insights into memory and delusion and the implications of a mind-generated universe were not very developed, and were spoon fed to the audience via spamming Kirima Seiichi quotes and character dialogue that blatantly lays the themes bare. For the most part, it misses the "delve" part of the phrase "delve into the human psyche", and it's certainly not alone in this, I feel similarly about Ghost in the Shell. Secondly, and more of an issue for me, is this show was just so relentlessly bleak. The information provided in this final episode does beg a rewatch, but I don't know if I want to put myself through this show again. Like, I'm sure I'd notice some cool, interesting things now that I know who and what Boogiepop and the Manticore are, but idk if it's worth sitting through brutal tragedy after brutal tragedy just to piece together the overarching plot that isn't even the main focus of the series in the first place. It's a trend that "cerebral" animes are also dark and depressing, and this series at times felt like a caricature of that trend.

You can have a series/film/whatever that is great because of how tragic it is OR you can have a series/film/whatever that is great because subsequent viewings unravel the mystery more and more, making it an addictive, puzzling watch. Pick one.
 
Mar 14, 2018 2:31 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Fantastic series. So much better than Lain, because unlike it Boogiepop actually means something. Lmaoing at the brainlets who can't understand it.
 
Apr 25, 2018 6:37 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6008
The big reveal! Toka is Boogiepop!
It's one of those things that's like "oh, why didn't I see this before?"

Fitting end. Filled in the final gaps. Well sort of. It's still difficult to keep track of all the characters, who's who and all that. Maybe I'll rewatch it again with the director's commentary on my DVDs, could be interesting.

7/10 (good) it remains.
Great soundtrack on this one. Visuals are, not sharp. Interesting arrangement / story telling (which is why I like it).
 
Nov 21, 2018 3:00 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2426
Thought this episode was quite also interesting especially they added color for some reason (reminds me the opposite of Aim for ace!'s final ep). Overall the show has been confusing but turned out to be really fantastic experience especially dementia had been cursed genre for me haha (since every other dementia show always left me mixed bag). Each episode always left me intrigued with those wtf moments and bizzare things. SE had similar thingy with scifi but for some reason I found myself incredibly invested with this show (imo BP had better atmosphere and more intensity). 8/10, Definitely interested to check out its related materials to fill out the holes and rewatch this!

BTW I have a feeling one of the girl was Boogiepop phantom toward the end. That also add another nice surprise!
Modified by SkyDrop, Nov 21, 2018 7:29 PM
 
Nov 24, 2018 7:31 PM

Online
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 15668
Easily the most confusing anime I've ever seen and I'm not really satisfied with the conclusion.

It was still worth watching for the side stories imo, even tho I wasn't able to get the overarching plot in it's entirety.

And also for the atmosphere, especially the sound was excellent.
One Piece episode 914 & 915 were a mistake.

 
Dec 10, 2018 8:46 PM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1841
really wanted to like it cause it does so many things well but it's just thematically unfocused and the exposition dumps surrounding kirima and kuroda really unravel all the intricate structures built in the first half of the show
 
Jan 16, 2019 1:03 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2079
Confusing, confusing, confusing.. ugh my brain.
 
Mar 10, 2019 1:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5953
An okay epilogue, confirming various suspected elements.

3/5


Great 2000s night show delving into modern society's teenagers and troubles, where the background story never gets too important for the series plan. It manages its poor animation quite well and the overall style (narration, audio, visuals) enhances the content.

Score: 8/10

Production notes: http://evaotaku.com/boogiepop/notes.html


It's weird to read that the series requires to have read the novels. I never touched one myself. Also, the peoples questionning about Echoes, the Manticore, whatever. An episode claims that Echoes is an alien being that was found and used for experiments, that the Manticore was one of those failed experiments, that the serum came from that too, etc. It's not like we didn't get the minimal informations needed tonmake sense of the (uninteresting) scifi red thread.

@Urufuzu_rein You're asking the series to tell the story it simply used as background canvas. A few eps were enough to understand that the series "main" thing wasn't this intrigue but rather the exploration of its themes through the various depicted cases.

@Arcanus Maybe the "side stories" were the "story"?

@bitchassdarius I thought the many cases we saw were going along fine. Why was it "thematically unfocused"?

@Skydrop Aim for the top* (Ace is a tennis series)
Modified by Rei_III, Mar 10, 2019 10:11 AM
 
Mar 10, 2019 7:53 AM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1841
Rei366 said:
An okay epilogue, confirming various suspected elements.

3/5


Great 2000s night show delving into modern society's teenagers and troubles, where the background story never gets too important for the series plan. It manages its poor animation quite well and the overall style (narration, audio, visuals) enhances the content.

Score: 8/10



It's weird to read that the series requires to have read the novels. I never touched one myself. Also, the peoples questionning about Echoes, the Manticore, whatever. An episode claims that Echoes is an alien being that was found and used for experiments, that the Manticore was one of those failed experiments, that the serum came from that too, etc. It's not like we didn't get the minimal informations needed tonmake sense of the (uninteresting) scifi red thread.

@Urufuzu_rein You're asking the series to tell the story it simply used as background canvas. A few eps were enough to understand that the series "main" thing wasn't this intrigue but rather the exploration of its themes through the various depicted cases.

@Arcanus Maybe the "side stories" were the "story"?

@bitchassdarius I thought the many cases we saw were going along fine. Why was it "thematically unfocused"?

@Skydrop Aim for the top* (Ace is a tennis series)

iiirc all the character studies pull in different directions and instead of being a meditation on one or two themes consistently, it ends up being a scattered portrait of the "human condition," which is really difficult to pull off convincingly in a 1-cour show.
 
Nov 27, 2019 1:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 122
Katsu-kun said:
Confusing, confusing, confusing.. ugh my brain.

Yep...but that’s why I somehow liked it. It being somewhat creepy helped too. Barely makes it to 8/10
 
Top