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ColdBreeze said: I like where this is heading. This discussion. Finally. Why do I imagine you with the most satisfactory grin saying this? Also, public apologies. The reasons were different, but I really used double standards to defend a point. My apologies, I believe it doesn't hurt my general argument, but that doesn't means I don't have to admit it. Hydra0411 said: This bullshit has 8.5? God, people here have no taste That's why I never take scores seriously in this site at least. |
 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| so we're headed to a stronghold called kongokaku, i'm curios whether there'll be a bunch of characters that are yet to be introduced or is it more likely that the plot will focus on what we have already ~ with that being said i was able to detect missionary work once again that's done by an anime lol i mean wouldn't it be weird if someone asks how i got into buddhism and then i'll be like yea that's because some anime managed to enlighten me. also i wonder if this will count the same amount of corpses as aot at the end. furthemore we do learn more about the kabaneri and their vampire habits. that last scene with ikoma and that lady -- i don't like cliffhangers. |
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DiabloMask said: I was glad that Ikoma finally proved that he's an ally, but freaking five minutes later...! Shouldn't they focus on developing the characters and advancing the plot instead of repeating the same scenes of a bunch of cowards whining about the Kabaneri being enemies? and btw where the hell is Ikoma's friend? I'm pretty sure he was with them at the end of episode 2! One of the Bushi was teaching him how to use the steam gun (he was on the machine compartment; Mumei and Ikoma were isolated in a separate car, this is why you didn't see Takumi and Ikoma together). The human mess in a middle of crisis is always charming by night. Hinted, the mess would be shipped to the stronghold of the Shogun. (they were discussing if the train arrives on schedule, whether the passengers would be still allowed to enter the city). Which is why they need Mumei, whether they like it or not. |
| @Kamisama751 It can be valid? I'm not discussing that, I'm discussing that you are basing yourself over a limited perspective, where it has been shown that the source of such information is not an expert, and you're presenting it as a truth of that world. Again, flat/round world argument. To add to this, the precise fact is is an uncertainty (questioning if it can or it can't be valid) should tell you that you shouldn't use it as an argument, since is not a fact. I can’t even find where I posted that even after searching backwards to the sixth page. Are you sure I wrote that? That's a nice case of convenient forgetfulness there. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: Also, nice fallacy Just because the scientific method is implied, inmediately the science of our world is applicable there. Brilliant!! Of course, it is not called science for no reason. And to reiterate, because the bait you throwed last time is apparently something you take serious, The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge Does that implies that the knowledge of our universe can be applied in their universe? Of course not. Does it automatically mean the main character is automatically wrong? No, then there is no problem to try to view things from that perspective. There is a problem. You are basing your argument on a single perspective. The fact the MC discovered something about the world and decided to used the word "virus" is not enough proof to say it is a virus. If he had used the word "disease" you would had been saying diseases. He's using a term to try to describe the phenomena, which is valid to convey a message, but it's not neccesarily the truth. There are two viewpoints mentioned in the show till now: science and magic/curse. Our protagonist did some research and concluded it is science. It concluded it is not a curse and later used the word virus. How does that makes it an inmediate target for analizying with our world's knowledge. You are forgetting the fact they have shiny hard coated hearts, which should already tell you there is some fiction in it. I also think you are using the word science wrong. I left the definition below. The other one is said but no one is even allowed to come near to it. If you ask about which of these two is “better”/”believable” then I will say science. Well, this shows your bias, nothing else. If the writing goes that way then I am even more right? Let's not kid ourselves, the bad writing has a high chance to lead us there. You are not really showing any sign of wit if you get if right. It's like guessing a kid's mistery story. I’d rather say common sense is mixed with something that doesn’t even come in contact with it in your example. “For example, how about they found a way to emulate gravity, since it is a force of nature?” Have they said/explained/mentioned it? No, then my quote still stands. It is not a valid example anymore if they did, which didn’t happen. Dude, it's science fiction. Can you explain the laser blades in Gundam? The answer is no, and is irrelevant to the story. Science fiction requires a certain ammount of suspension of disbelief, and you are comparing a pure science fiction show with a zombie apocalypse. Again, strawman fallacy. Also, I missed out on the detail, but you are comparing bad writing with bad writing. I don't think that can help your point. Is the “science” aspect 100% wrong now? No. So I based my viewpoint on it. Is the “curse” aspect 100% wrong now? No. So you can base your view on it. First, my attitude is "There's no evidence to support that that specific virus works the same way the virus works in real life", and my most clear evidence is that there is no virus in real life that gives you a shiny hard coated heart. Thus, any use of knowledge of our universe is useless to determine if it is a legit virus because, from the first second, it establishes fiction, a separate universe. Second, let's take again the definition of science, according to wikipedia... Science is a systematic enterprise that using mathematics and measurement, creates, builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable observations, explanations and predictions about the universe. Keywords there are Knowledge and Universe. Our universe is not the same as the one in the show. Therefore, the knowledge of our world doesn't necessarily transpose to the knowledge of our world. You are, therefore, imposing our universe's knowledge in other universe. Must I base my view on the “curse” aspect? No, but I can. You didn''t though, since you have a bias on "science". So to conclude, you can't use our knowledge of viruses to explain the viruses in the anime's universe, because there's no indication that our knowledge can be applied in that universe and because from the very beggining the show already indicated us that it's fiction (Why the fuck do I have to state this?) because even if it is a virus, it doesn't presents symptoms that our knowledge can explain. Both are equally valid because nothing is explained yet. I based my points on "science". You can base yours on "curse" and that won't make your points invalid (neither mine). This relativist point of view doesn't helps your case. If anything, it makes you look like those guys that say "well, it's just your opinion" without stopping to think if their opinion are right or wrong. kamisama751 said: Both are equally valid because nothing is explained yet. I based my points on "science". You can base yours on "curse" and that won't make your points invalid (neither mine). kamisama751 said: me said: There's another way too. How about waiting for more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions? The animation of this show is nice. “How about waiting for more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions? They might give you crap animation like Aku no Hana later.” Mumei is very strong. “How about waiting for more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions? She can also get defeated by some regular human in a fair 1v1 afterwards.” “How about waiting for more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions? My points are not necessary wrong.” That sentence kills everything in these type of threads, independent of praise or bad talking. “How about waiting for more evidence instead of discussing it in a thread? Nothing is sure now after all.” Now go to the mods and tell them to stop creating episode discussions. We are here at the episode 3 discussion. What do we do? Discussing about it. What am I doing? Discussing about it. Such a lazy tool for people to stop others bad talking about a show they like. Replace "How about waiting for more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions?" with "nothing is explained yet". I'm not even sorry. |
ThieveryApr 30, 2016 5:04 PM
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| I know it's not going to happen but I'm praying that Ayame and all of the goverment officials go and die. They are so unlikeable and predictable. They are single handedly bring this show down for me and I get mad every time I see them on screen. |
  Rarity is Best Pony! |
KoreaWS said: ColdBreeze said: I like where this is heading. This discussion. Finally. Why do I imagine you with the most satisfactory grin saying this? Also, public apologies. The reasons were different, but I really used double standards to defend a point. My apologies, I believe it doesn't hurt my general argument, but that doesn't means I don't have to admit it. Hydra0411 said: This bullshit has 8.5? God, people here have no taste That's why I never take scores seriously in this site at least. +1, i agree with you, because the score is high, it doesn't mean that the show was super good, it still depends on the watcher |
| First two episodes were pretty good, but I couldn't help but feel annoyed and dissatisfied by the execution of this episode. Poor execution and just... A ribbon holding back the whole fucking infection from spreading, but then Ikoma suddenly turns? Kabaneri please, I really want to say I enjoy this show, but you're making it hard for me to enjoy you. :/ |
nozoris said: She is a typical OP girl.There's something about Mumei that annoys me, like idk I kinda don't really like her character now? Such a shame tho she was quite fun in the first episode. |
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FononZero said: Ok? Well if you say so.ExTamplier said: I'd say she's moderately strong. Decent at best.She is a typical OP girl. |
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| Okay guys, this is the next episode's preview: |
| Omg, Mumei you are confusing the heck out of me. I don't think she cares what happens as long as she gets to Kongoukako. Such a contrast in personalities, I don't know if I like it. Kanabeis need blood so they don't go insane...? I don't get the benefit of getting on the bad side of the people, like Mumei has been doing. I can't guess her plans and how she wants to be treated on the train. That samurai knight dude protecting the princess seems to know what he's doing. |
| I believe that unless you know for sure that you don't like a concept, you should keep exploring it. Whether it be characteristics of people or a genre of some sort, you never know if you don't like it until you've seen quality work corresponding to that genre. Keep exploring until you've found something you enjoy, or something of quality. Then you know what's bad, what's good, and what isn't for you. ( ･ㅂ･)و ̑̑ Everyday life. |
| Oh that Ikoma at the end. Like they said, they are human and kanabe. The action was intense, I like how the people continue to reject them, it's seems realistic. |
| Well, I'm glad to see that things will be more interesting once again next week. This week's episode was a little too cheesy for my taste. |
| Shingeki no Kabane~ Hot-headed weakling Protagonist who has a body that can regenerate vowing to kill ALL kabanes? Narrow minded protective officers + general public turning against their key to survival due to an irrational sense of fear? Cities protected by giant walls? Mindless flesh-eating monsters? Strong female characters who beat up the men? I like where this is heading.. |
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FononZero said: no more cheesy kabane after this episode, finally get to see their powered forms. They aren't messing around this time. Oh snap, this fucking crazy ass shit about to get turn, them kabane will be coming out swinging |
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Thank you dude! But, if they go this way, i kinda see at the end of the day, almost sure there would be a leveled-up subspecies of higly intelegent kabane called kabaneri, that has some kind of power to control the horde of kabane... very convinient! |
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Thanks for the vid! I think the Wazatori could be seen back in episode 1: That one dude Ikoma tried to lure ...  didn't take the bait - Ikoma was attacked by another kabane from the roof. And since most of the kabane bite the neck, I was wondering why this one was holding a katana (or a stick - I can't see well). If so, back at the Aragane station other things had happened, aside the birth of another Kabaneri. We'd see in the next episode what the Wazatori are capable of, but perhaps they are skilled in wielding weapons, which will increase their offensive power immensely (and explain why so many stations have been lost). |
kamisama751 said: He has shown us one of his foundings: How to not become a Kabane. This should give his "science" some believability at the very least. He actually didn't research the process as he simply didn't had any test subjects and no change to witness it when it is happening. At very least, not until it was all too late and he was also infected. As expected from such a situation, he convinces himself that it is merely a "virus" and there must be "scientitic explanation" to it and then proceeded by bolting the metal to his body then strangling himself. He didn't know it will work, he didn't even had a working theory that it might work. He was desperate and tried something random - and it worked. We don't know if procedure he applied on himself would work again. No one ever tried to save the infected. However, if exactly same or similar process can be applied to other infected in order to make them into Kabaneri, you will be proven correct. This however didn't happened yet and no one in the setting seems to be concerned to even try saving the infected. Not even protagonist, who (at least according to theory) should know better. As for doing research and "doing science" - main character indeed "did some science" - he developed the pneumatic spiked hammer intended to punch through Kabane's glowstone hearth. His design was eventually proven effective in field condition as he used it to fight during the attack - before that, it wasn't working. Process of developing his weapon was scientific enough, but it was in different field He never did a research into the process of Kabane transformation though. |
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NEXT EPISODE BE LIKE [url]https://youtu.be/aHSDB664SJk[/url] #カバネリ #kabaneri wanna know what can Ayame , with her Steam Powered Bow do next episodes? |
moncikoma said: Seems quite heavy for even for a guy to hold that in one hand...NEXT EPISODE BE LIKE [url]https://youtu.be/aHSDB664SJk[/url] #カバネリ #kabaneri wanna know what can Ayame , with her Steam Powered Bow do next episodes? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| @Kamisama751 Oh that one. :D Again, I can also say the “curse” aspect is unbelievable because it can’t go away by simply chocking. Denying facts present in the show, alright. The curse dissapeared by simply chocking. The fact it defies common sense is one thing and the show doesn't handles that well, so it is bad exposition, but it happened. If you say about facts, both are equal. You are clearly ignoring one for the sake of your argument. You are a biased hypocrite. Since the show is not finished, there will be split perspectives for sure. Sure, but you are taking one of them and using it as fact. If anything, you should not be using that argument for that same reason. So this is also personal bias? Yes, since in the case of Mushi-shi, the MC is an expert on his field, while here Ikoma is a greasemonkey with broader, yet not for that absolute knowledge of how the curse attacks the human organism. I just brought a good example to justify my point. That argument also doesn't adress the fact you are biased nevertheless. And in the way that it makes you look overconfident. The laser gun is part of the setting and is told to be a product of futuristic technology. The gravity in Aldnnoah.Zero however, is not part of the setting and is unexplained. Please, leave that AldZero strawman die. It is not helping your point. It is part of the sci.fi setting and yes, it is unexplained. Also I said sword, not gun, now you aren't even reading. Ok, but where is consistency. I've already posted contextual evidence before that they have been consistent about how the zombie virus works. They failed in the exposition. You came with science to argue it and I've already explained why you are wrong by doing so. They can say this type of “virus” is this and that but everything else they don’t explain is/should be based on our world. No. Thanks for ignoring my use of the science definition. They can do complete irrelevant things with logic just because they got Mechas? No, they need to excuse it either with our or their logic. Mechas doesn't has to do with the argument. They have to excuse it with their logic or else is simply inconsistent and bad. If they set the story in our universe (which in the case of AldZero, Naruto and Kabaneri it isn't) then we can attack their logic with ours (for example, Steins:Gate). Since they haven’t done it with the spreading speed yet I can only base it on our world’s science unless they do. You are again imposing this universe's knowledge, only because you are close minded. Also, why are you using the bad exposition as an excuse? Until now, all your examples are about bad shows. Talk about bad quality evidence. See first paragraph. Regardless of the context, you still used the "wait and see" argument when you clearly attacked me for using it. By the way, why don’t you say the exact same thing to everyone no matter if the praise it or not. Why do you care about that? You mad? Let me give you a hand @Malise There are only two explainations for this till now, which are however, contradicting each other so you can only choose one: science and curse. No, they actually aren't. Through science, Ikoma is discovering how the curse, a phenomena exclusive to his universe, works. You already know the definitions so I'll skip them. You also didn't adressed the scientific method argument and the science argument. Your use of sharpshooter fallacy made you miss the important part. Keep trying to argue if you want, I already got my point through. |
ThieveryMay 1, 2016 6:50 AM
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| fuckin anime, now Ikoma goes full eren with that "I exist for the purpose of IPPIKI NO KOROSU", now i'm starting to lose faith in this attack on zombies on the train, why the hell would the studio make a character with the same personality like this? I'm find with same settings and whatnot, but this? W0W just W0W. Well, not entirely eren though as Ikoma also goes FULL HARUTO WITH THAT SCENE WITH AYAME, VALVRAVE ANYONE? Seems ayame going to end up the same as Saki Rukino HUEHUEHUEHUE |
| Hm. So this is a Tokyo Ghoul-like setup? I mean I really liked it so far but the blood-thing is kinda annoying. Please don't let them lose control when they don't get enough blood every once in a while. I really hope that was just a side-effect for the guy because he transformed just recently. If it turns out to be like I hope it is not this will get a lot more uninteresting. Those things just get too predictable and in this case it just serves to make Kabaneri "evil" because they can't live like normal humans. |
| This show would be so much more interesting if the main characters were Kurusu and the aristocrat girl. You know, realistic humans that try to solve problems in realistic ways, not special snowflakes like Mumei and Itoma. Also, the Kabane are not the slightest bit intimidating. Titans, Vampires, and Ghouls are all far scarier. |
| What Kabaneri Did Wrong: - Edgelord protagonist - Special snowflake girlfriend - Giving humans powers - Failing to create a unique/memorable setting What Kabaneri Did Right: ... |
| Oops now that's not good. Things are getting nasty. The mc is turning into a punching bag lol. I can't wait to see how things will play out. |
kamisama751 said: ]Science and curse (aka magic) just can’t merge.. Actually, it can. We are speaking about the fictional universe that doesn't have to follow the same limitations as our (real) one does. In other world, in some fictional universes magic is real and if some of them, it can actually mix with relatively advanced technology. Problem is we don't know whether either is a case here. Show simply declares that there are zombies (Kabane), that they are difficult to kill and that they make more zombies by even scratching otherwise healthy people. True nature of Kabane aren't explained. No one in the setting knows how they exactly work. Majority of common folk within the setting are superstitious lot that believe it is a curse. There doesn't seem to be any real research done on the matter and what is even worse, no one in the setting is actually willing to do any. People in charge seems to be either incompetent, ignorant or obscurantist fools that wouldn't ever try to support anything meaningful. There is only person affected by Kabaneri syndrome the same as main character, that's Mumei, however Mumei herself doesn't have any knowledge on the matter. She herself believe it is a curse or doesn't bother. |
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kamisama751 said: That is also the situation where Ikoma said it is science. In which the show itself present it as right and showed us the chocking. Does the chocking make sense? No, it is a mistake but the show counts it as right. Therefore, even if it makes no sense you can counter what is coming afterwards with it unless the real answer is clear.. Ikoma is mechanic by profession, engineer if you like, that's profession that comes up as man of science in my eyes. He indeed should be claiming everything can be explained in scientific fashion. However, there is no exposition that confirms his claims or explain what's really happening. And I have a bad feeling that it will never happen. Story isn't trying to explain things, just jump into the action. |
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kamisama751 said: And I have a bad feeling that it will never happen. Story isn't trying to explain things, just jump into the action. Yeah, probably they are just going:  [/quote]This is exactly the situation where Mr. Okabe Rintarou (or whoever is his counterpart in this particular show, Ikoma isn't it) should start spouting a incredible amount of techno babble to convince us that that there is some well explained/explored phenomena in works. They obviously don't do that. Gundam or NGO were famous with technobable. This show isn't even trying. |
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kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: Denying facts present in the show, alright. The curse dissapeared by simply chocking. The fact it defies common sense is one thing and the show doesn't handles that well, so it is bad exposition, but it happened. KoreaWS said: I've already posted contextual evidence before that they have been consistent about how the zombie virus works. They failed in the exposition. You came with science to argue it and I've already explained why you are wrong by doing so. That is also the situation where Ikoma said it is science. In which the show itself present it as right and showed us the chocking. Does the chocking make sense? No, it is a mistake but the show counts it as right. Therefore, even if it makes no sense you can counter what is coming afterwards with it unless the real answer is clear. You are, again, using the definition of science wrong. Also, let me use FMA:B as example: alchemy cannot be explained with our knowledge. Does it makes sense that if put your hands together you can later manipulate steel? No, not at all. It does, however, makes sense in the fiction's world, it's a fact there, therefore is okay to suspend your disbelief about how Ed uses alchemy. Ikoma choking made the virus dissipate from his skin. Does it makes sense? No, but it's a fact of their world, and we haven't seen another Kabanerification process to say if that process is constant or if the show contradicts itself, therefore it's okay to suspend your disbelief about the Kabanerization process. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: You are clearly ignoring one for the sake of your argument. You are a biased hypocrite. The Mumei one? I can also use what you have said threre to counter this: KoreaWS said: The fact the MC discovered something about the world and decided to used the word "virus" is not enough proof to say it is a virus. If he had used the word "disease" you would had been saying diseases. He's using a term to try to describe the phenomena, which is valid to convey a message, but it's not neccesarily the truth. Wrong. I don't ignore neither Ikoma nor Mumei's positions. Is because I consider both that I stand where I am. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: Sure, but you are taking one of them and using it as fact. If anything, you should not be using that argument for that same reason. I have also said it is a valid way of analyzing. If you can also analyze the same thing through the perspective of curse. However, no matter how much these two clashes, none of them is truly correct now.You can analyze from a certain perspective even if it is not a fact for sure yet and show the results. http://classroom.synonym.com/write-point-analysis-essay-2285.html First of all, just because you can do fancy point analysis essays doesn't means you are correct. Look again at my flat/round earth argument you conveniently ignored. Second, look at the bolded statement. Just because you don't have peace of mind doesn't means that you should take that stance and defend it as a fact, when, as much as you are using that stance now since suddenly you became a relativist, none of them is really clear, which is, by the way, my original point. Thanks for agreeing with me. Therefore, you shouldn't even use knowledge of our world (again, this point) on something that isn't even clear on the other world. Now, what was overthinking again? Third, you agreed that no perspective is unlimited. Then you proceed to use then a non-unlimited perspective to defend your argument only because is convenient for you point. That's the bias I am reffering about you. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: Yes, since in the case of Mushi-shi, the MC is an expert on his field, while here Ikoma is a greasemonkey with broader, yet not for that absolute knowledge of how the curse attacks the human organism. I just brought a good example to justify my point. That argument also doesn't adress the fact you are biased nevertheless. And in the way that it makes you look overconfident. I can also say Ikoma researched it (which the show also told us he did) and the rest don’t even come near to it because they are afraid and Mumei is 12. That do also not make you look any better if you say I am using personal bias. I'm not using that to make me better, I'm using it to show that you are wrong. I also explicitly bring bias because it's obvious you narrowly choose only the point of views that are favorable for your arguments, ignoring the others that aren't favorable. Mumei has proven, in screen, that she has more experience of the world. I used that argument previously, and you skipped it. Why are ages important now if we both know Ikoma is 15, where 5 of them has been working as a greasemonkey and the rest as a child? Age is irrelevant to the point. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: Please, leave that AldZero strawman die. It is not helping your point. It is part of the sci.fi setting and yes, it is unexplained. Also I said sword, not gun, now you aren't even reading. No matter how I view it that example is on my side. The gravity “logic” is not part of the setting even though the show is science fiction. See, the problem is you. First you ignore that science is a force of nature, therefore it could be manipulated in a science fiction story, the same way in our universe we've found a way to manipulate fire and electricity, both elements of nature. Second,aldzero is science fiction because it has elements of futuristic science and technology (Kataphraktos, MC's eye implant), including space travel (Moon colonization, space colonies). The manipulation of gravity, therefore, is included in the "futuristic science and technology" department. If you are dismissing this obvious fact then it's [quote=kamisama751 message=45836259]That is also an example that if their logic doesn’t cover it our logic kicks in. Don't be fooled. Generalizing from your own perspective doesn't helps your point. That's the Hasty generalization fallacy. It's your logic that tries to fit in, not "our". If anything, it shows that you're the problem. I already showed how your idea of analyzing a show when it shows something "scientific" is wrong anyways. kamisama751 said: Then they should simply explore it, which they haven’t done yet. Before that, what is illogical and even unexplained is based on our world. I stopped talking about the bad writing. Is something we both agree. Why, then, are you using it as an argument, if it is bad? I already proved you wrong with that. I, Robot uses outdated science, yet it still makes sense in it's own logic. Steins:gate uses science in our world and uses it in a way it doesn't makes sense, therefore is bad. Simple as that. Give me someone of authority already that can cover you here, I stopped believing you make sense in this point since you used the strawman fallacy. Huh? I have said many times that if they excuse it afterwards then I will delete the point. I can’t see the problem. If one point stays alive till the end then it is just a mistake. If one point doesn’t then it isn’t one. The problem is that you are using uncertainties to make arguments. Using an unstable base hurts your arguments. kamisama751 said: Mine is: You can show your results but if they are true or not is decided later. The sentence you use is like: Don’t say anything because nothing is sure. If that really were your stance, you wouldn't be pushing those as "Attack on Trainwreck mayor mistakes", especially with an unstable logic base. I also used the phrase "don't jump to conclusions without enough evidence", which can also be interpreted as "don't put your predictions made with not enough evidence as conclusions". Why do you care about that? You mad I'm using it on you? kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: No, they actually aren't. Through science, Ikoma is discovering how the curse, a phenomena exclusive to his universe, works. You already know the definitions so I'll skip them. Science and curse (aka magic) just can’t merge. You didn't even bothered to read what I wrote there. In fact, it's funny that you left it untouched. I used the scientific method definition there to explain how the curse is beign investigated by Ikoma, in a way it makes him understand how the curse works. And since this curse it's not in our knowledge database, you are overthinking indeed. You are making things out of thin air ("That virus can be explained with out world's scientific knowledge") and you have both empty presumptions ("the MC used the word science therefore is right to judge the events and situations of that world as if my scientific knowledge transposed to that world") and over-analisis ("The choking stopped the skin color change, but that's not common sense, but it is what happened, but our science can't explain that, etc, etc, etc). I was right saying you are an overthinkerabout the virus. kamisama751 said: KoreaWS said: You also didn't adressed the scientific method argument and the science argument. You are right about that one since I missed the point of that sentence. However, “if they don’t cover it up with their logic then ours kicks in” is my answer to it. The fact you missed is the one that makes your whole way of defending your point wrong. But hey, dat sharpshooter fallacy. It is also not my fault you couldn't understand it.. Once again, generalizing. See, the problem in this argument is you. You are using a prediction as a fact, using only one perspective of the world instead of trying to broaden it, and excusing yourself on a bigger term (science) without, in the first place, using it right, and in the second place stopping to think if yours the correct way to look at the problem (pro-tip: I've proven it's wrong) ______________________________________________________________________ Malise said: kamisama751 said: Yeah, probably they are just going: "It's science, I don't have to explain" This is exactly the situation where Mr. Okabe Rintarou (or whoever is his counterpart in this particular show, Ikoma isn't it) should start spouting a incredible amount of techno babble to convince us that that there is some well explained/explored phenomena in works. They obviously don't do that. Gundam or NGO were famous with technobable. This show isn't even trying. In the first place, Rintarou's setting is our world. This show's setting is a post zombie apocalypse feudal steampunk japan. Don't fall for the strawman logic there. They haven't thrown technobabble either up to this point. MC just said "It's a virus" and used a method to obtain partial knowledge of how the curse works. That doesn't means we know how the curse works in it's totallity, and even less allows us to say if it could be possible in our world (which from the beggining it can't since we don't have viruses that give us shiny hard coated hearts). That guy is just overthinking. _________________________________________________________________________ @ColdBreeze I believe it has a way of working, which is what science tries to present: explanation of a particular phenomena. From that prespective you could call it science, the inner workings of something. It, however, can't be explained with our world's scienctific knowledge, starting with the fact that we don't have knowledge of any phenomena as the one in the show. This doesn't contradicts my posture that Kami there is using the definition of science wrong, and therefore is wrong. |
ThieveryMay 1, 2016 1:03 PM
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
I can stop seeing similitudes with SnK but despite of that I'm really enjoying the series because it's been handling the plot quite nicely. Sincerely I was not expecting the things to turn out like that in the end, with Mumei asking for actual blood (I thought that was a joke) and Ikoma turning into a zombie... I like it, I like it. I also have to say I like the ED way more than the OP. I just looked and it is by Aimer, the group that made Brave Shine, the second OP of Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade works, song I also liked. As a side comment: |
HumbertoZeroMay 1, 2016 1:24 PM
| So they like blood! Ikoma is going to drink from Ayame, if Kurusu see it, he is going to get mad for sure! |
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| Not the best day for Ayame, eh? I wonder, how will the Kabaneri duo quell their thirst for blood? On another note, Mumei's actions speak more than her words. It would seem she truly has given up on society accepting the Kabaneri. A rather bleak prospect indeed. |
Bowgli said: It was the stone charm that stopped the curse. Mumei even said that the stone hurts when it touches her. Until now we only know it is a stone. Unless it just so happens a common river stone is the kabane's kryptonite, it will stay that way. Mumei said that because she has never seen Ikoma without his gloves up until she asks that question, and wonders what he has on his glove that hurts her. It turns out to be a stone. We are, however, expecting the "It's magic after all" considering the writing. I didn't checked the other day, but I'm looking up why a Kabaneri could suffer pain from hits but not pain from heat. My prediction is that a Kabane's body has increased tolerance to pain through direct exposition to heat sources (like the steam pipe). It kinda resonates with the theme of shiny hearts. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| I have a couple of issues with the show as well. How does choking yourself stop a damn virus? And if it's that easy, I don't understand why not a lot of people have done the same. I feel like the show is over-emphasizing how dangerous the Kabane are. The humans in this show should have the technology required for explosives- not sure why they aren't using them. The girl decapitated the Kabane's head off pretty easily, so it's not like Kabane body parts are strong enough to be resistant against explosions. Why the fuck are these samurai so paranoid for? Maybe the show will explain it later, but we have yet to see a Kabane actually disguise as a human. And I don't think "they're paranoid of a person being potentially infected" is a valid rebuttal, since they're so unwilling to trust the main character for the reason of "the kabane is trying to trick us!" meanwhile the kabane obviously lack the level of intelligence needed to perform that. Also this: "As the world is in the middle of an industrial revolution, a monster appears that cannot be defeated unless its heart, which is protected by a layer of iron, is pierced." is just fucking wrong. Even says so on the wiki, given the girl sliced a kabanes head off and it died. Finally, it isn't clear how long it takes to be fully infected. The main character's infection spread quick as fuck, but the pregnant woman's infection spread slowly. If it's the former, then people don't have to take these dumb Kabane infection checks. If people got infected fully in seconds, there's no reason why a person walking around and talking would be infected. If it's the latter, then the writers simply decide how long it takes for someone to be fully infected whenever they want to, for plot convenience. Other points were made already in this forum. Can anyone actually still defend this show seriously? This show, just from 3 episodes, is a dumbed down SnK, which I didn't think was possible. |
MapplesauceMay 1, 2016 2:15 PM
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ynat11 said: Mapplesauce said: I have a couple of issues with the show as well. How does choking yourself stop a damn virus? And if it's that easy, I don't understand why not a lot of people have done the same. I feel like the show is over-emphasizing how dangerous the Kabane are. The humans in this show should have the technology required for explosives- not sure why they aren't using them. The girl decapitated the Kabane's head off pretty easily, so it's not like Kabane body parts are strong enough to be resistant against explosions. Why the fuck are these samurai so paranoid for? Maybe the show will explain it later, but we have yet to see a Kabane actually disguise as a human. And I don't think "they're paranoid of a person being potentially infected" is a valid rebuttal, since they're so unwilling to trust the main character for the reason of "the kabane is trying to trick us!" meanwhile the kabane obviously lack the level of intelligence needed to perform that. The MC cut of circulation to his brain which supposedly stopped the "virus" and somehow didn't kill him but the visual representation did look odd so I would understand that confusion. Also I'm assuming most people dont have time to attempt to choke themselves randomly before the virus consumes them so yeah that point is kinda invalid assuming knowledge on the Kabane condidtion is minimal. Mumei is far stronger than the other people because of her Kabaneri super powers (which I assumed was the result of the virus attempting to make a stronger host) which is why i would assume that she makes that look easy. However I do agree that for the most part the Kabane seem to be to weak of an enemy so far. As for the paranoia stuff, in the context of this time period and from what we've been exposed to, most people in this universe have very little knowledge of how the virus/curse/whatever functions. Also in the first episode of the series we saw Kabane in the front car of the train pulling on the air horn and such and we also saw that some of the Kabane carried weapons, so we don't know the extent of their intelligence. The varying times for infection like varies from person to person or from where someone was bit, most Kabane are shown to bite in the neck area possibly because it is the most affective spot for the virus to spread from. Hopefully most of this stuff can be more clearly shown to us or explained eventually but for now this is my view point on the most glaring logic issues xD. Some of your points kind of seem like excuses though. I mean, they explained in the show that they taught basic understanding on the anatomy of a kabane and how the infections works I believe. Also I heavily doubt that the guy really cut all circulation to the brain or else he would have passed out lol I do hope they at least try to explain these issues. Kinda seems like a mess at the moment |
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I've developed a theory based on the relation between injury size and speed in which it manifest, based on the 3 days rule. Up until now it's consistent, and I'm waiting for either a screw up or me beign acknowledged. That's basically where I'm finding the fun on this show. Mapplesauce said: Can anyone actually still defend this show seriously? This show, just from 3 episodes, is a dumbed down SnK, which I didn't think was possible. Did you know: This anime's idea came out when the AOT staff was drunk. Have a look at this article http://myanimelist.net/featured/1613 I mean, they explained in the show that they taught basic understanding on the anatomy of a kabane and how the infections works I believe. AFAIK, Ikoma, his fat friend and probably mumei and his ani-sama know something about that. Where did you got that? |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
KoreaWS said: Mapplesauce said: Can anyone actually still defend this show seriously? This show, just from 3 episodes, is a dumbed down SnK, which I didn't think was possible. Did you know: This anime's idea came out when the AOT staff was drunk. Have a look at this article http://myanimelist.net/featured/1613 I thought they were joking? Fuck |
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Mapplesauce said: @KoreaWSKoreaWS said: Did you know: This anime's idea came out when the AOT staff was drunk. Have a look at this article http://myanimelist.net/featured/1613 I thought they were joking? Fuck That is a joke from the author of the article, the sarcasm is quite obvious. |
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ynat11 said: I'm also hoping they actually do give clear answers,but for now I'm using these "excuses" to keep the show watchable because I still believe it has potential. So it's not that entirely disagree with the people hating on the show its that I think they should still see it through until we do or do not receive our answers in a reasonable way. That's fair. I think that the show still has some potential left over, so let's just hope they resolve these issues. Also I believe the main character said something of the lines of "they taught us at the academy that you will only be infected once the infection spreads to the brain" when he was trying to convince his chubby friend of his that he cured himself. Could be wrong, but I think I remember something of the lines of that scene. |
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To be quite honest, I'd believe it, and I still believe it. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| If you believe it or not doesn't matter, it is not the truth. It is simply a joke so you shouldn't reference it as source. |
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it was boring , i mean this episode was a waste of time nothing important happened  |
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