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Most Overrated/Underrated Anime Discussion Thread v.5

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Aug 26, 6:31 PM

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OnePunch18 said:
ShanAsuna said:


Oh trust me, the fans of Vinland Saga are one of the most entertaining bunch I've seen. Personally, I will judge people who call trashy online love novels literature, people who think bubblegum pop are masterpieces... And it applies to anime too because I actually consider anime a respectable form of art. In any case, calling something "overrated" implies there's an objective assessment of what's good and what's not and what's getting too much praise for what it's worth.


I know you love KnY, but, please stop


And I really think Vinland Saga is a steaming pile of... Yea, just to be clear
 
Aug 26, 6:36 PM
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So we're talking about underrated and overrated anime? Well, I got one underrated, have you ever heard of Burst Angel?
 
Aug 26, 7:10 PM
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One underated anime for me is redline. The artwork was mind-blowing good and I liked the whole setting and idea of racing through what was basically North Korea + Warworld.
 
Aug 26, 7:20 PM

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OnePunch18 said:
ShanAsuna said:


Oh trust me, the fans of Vinland Saga are one of the most entertaining bunch I've seen. Personally, I will judge people who call trashy online love novels literature, people who think bubblegum pop are masterpieces... And it applies to anime too because I actually consider anime a respectable form of art. In any case, calling something "overrated" implies there's an objective assessment of what's good and what's not and what's getting too much praise for what it's worth.


I know you love KnY, but, please stop

Just ignore him, the more you talk to him, the more he'll pester you.
Story comes first, art comes second.
 
Aug 26, 10:21 PM

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Elucid said:
OnePunch18 said:


I know you love KnY, but, please stop

Just ignore him, the more you talk to him, the more he'll pester you.


Well... Wrong again. Anyway, the hypocrisy is astounding. If one is free to criticise an anime in an opinion, why is it wrong to criticise an opinion? What makes opinions so sanctified here on MAL such that they are so "invulnerable" to criticisms? So someone's 3 minutes' worth of typing is more sanctified than a whole studio's months of effort in production, the author's years of effort in creation?
 
Aug 26, 11:46 PM

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Thanjh said:
ShanAsuna said:


Well... Wrong again. Anyway, the hypocrisy is astounding. If one is free to criticise an anime in an opinion, why is it wrong to criticise an opinion? What makes opinions so sanctified here on MAL such that they are so "invulnerable" to criticisms? So someone's 3 minutes' worth of typing is more sanctified than a whole studio's months of effort in production, the author's years of effort in creation?
Your reactions are so over the top and nonsensical but it’s exact what’s expected from a KnY fan. Nobody’s saying you can’t give your opinion or criticize someone else’s they’re just simply criticizing yours because if you look anywhere outside of the KnY forums I’m pretty sure the consensus is that KnY is nothing special if you take away its art and animation so they think it doesn’t make sense for you to say such things about the best seinen to come out in a long while when so much of this shounen trash is being released.


Let's break down what you said
Your argument: My opinion (that KNY is a much better anime than Vinland Saga) is "over the top" and "nonsensical"

Your justification (that's basically a bare assertion which is objectively and verifiably wrong) : if you look anywhere outside of the KnY forums I’m pretty sure the consensus is that KnY is nothing special if you take away its art and animation

Respomse: Reviewers such Goombastomp, Glass review, Gigguk (just to mention a few) have praised KNY (some even before ep 19 was released, just in case you make another false assertion) not just for its art, but its overall production (including direction, sound effects, soundtrack, and generic but still good story). All this is objectively verifiable facts, you can find their reviews on Google or YouTube.

Your second (more hilarious and again baseless) assertion: Vinland saga is the best seinen to come out in a long while

My response: Vinland saga's overall production (including art, sound effects, soundtrack, direction, pacing) is objectively subpar when held against any universally praised anime (not just KNY, but also Mob Psycho, Fate series by Ufotable, just to name a few).

The only possible redeeming factor for Vinland saga (which is probably why it is being hyped) is the story in the manga would get better (after ep 8, the latest episode released). I wouldn't know and I wouldn't comment on it because I've never read the manga. But given that MAL has a separate title and score for manga, shouldn't all these manga fans be limited to rating the manga high scores rather than hyping up the anime that is clearly not delivering and thus undeserving of its hype.
Modified by ShanAsuna, Aug 26, 11:50 PM
 
Aug 27, 3:06 AM

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@Thanjh He's pretentious and nonsensical. With his retarded thread in the VS forum discussion he literally admits to not understanding the story and characters but still acts as if he has any valid criticism.

So he makes more retarded claims ''subpar against any universally praised anime''. Who is he lmao? It's not hard to pick some shows which do actually look less stellar than VS. It IS above norm and nothing changes that. He's right on one thing at least, Mob Psycho clearly has more detailed art... right? Jeez this guy also isn't someone who can comment on the pacing of the story because he never understood it so eh (what's even wrong with the pacing?). Believes it's undeserving of hype, only way he can back his claim up is by saying that some anime have higher production values, a living meme right here. I'll wait for the time he can actually criticize it without falling back on completely different shows.

But anyway, just take a look at the links I posted. I gave my opinion on the setting of KnY and he starts belittling me while ranting about AoT and pointing out ''gaps in the story'', all objectively wrong. I think that says enough, he'll never appreciate the richer stories of stuff like VS or AoT because his fanboying for KnY gets in the way.

 
Aug 27, 9:02 AM

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@Elucid


I'm sorry I have to post my reply to your private message here, but since you've disabled the receipt of messages, I have no other choice if I wanted to give you a response.

First of all, thanks for the private message, I appreciate it.

This would probably surprise Vinland saga fans who have gotten into heated debates with me, but I am honestly open to different preferences in anime. I would never criticise someone for saying, "Vinland Saga is my favorite anime". My arguments with Vinland Saga fans only arise when they are stating an objective statement such as "Kimetsu no Yaiba is overrated, Vinland Saga is underrated".

Now the subtle difference between the two statements may not be immediately obvious to most people, but I'm a stickler for logical arguments and concise expressions (as you have probably observed from my lengthy posts on different forums). When we say something is "overrated" or "underrated", it is predicated on the assumption that there is an objective assessment of anime, in terms of how good or bad they are, because only with this objective scale, can we then proceed to say whether the "hype" or "praise" or "MAL score" given to the anime is deserving or undeserving (overrated/underrated).

I have read and understood your point of view on why you like Vinland Saga as an anime. I do not agree with them, as you already know, but I can respect that you have a different opinion. After all, our opinions are subjective. We like different things probably due to our different personal experiences, upbringing, political, cultural, or gender-based differences, etc.

It is only when we assert or imply our opinions are objective (such as when we use the terms overrated/underrated) that these opinions will be justifiably subjected to intensive scrutiny. After all, something can only be objectively good or bad when there are objective factors upon which we may measure them. I personally believe there IS an objective assessment for the quality of anime and there are several objective factors which we can use to assess an anime. But that's a topic for another day.

Anyway, thanks again for the email. I like engaging in discussions about anime so I appreciate the effort. This is probably contrary to the belief of my "opponents" in forum discussions, but I harbor no ill will towards anyone just because they argue against my point of view. However, I must admit I will judge people based on their opinions/statements because I believe it is a reflection of their intellect and character (as do most of us, I believe).

Best of luck in finding the next awesome anime and see you around on MAL
Modified by ShanAsuna, Aug 27, 9:47 AM
 
Aug 27, 9:39 AM

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Thanjh said:
ShanAsuna said:


Let's break down what you said
Your argument: My opinion (that KNY is a much better anime than Vinland Saga) is "over the top" and "nonsensical"

Your justification (that's basically a bare assertion which is objectively and verifiably wrong) : if you look anywhere outside of the KnY forums I’m pretty sure the consensus is that KnY is nothing special if you take away its art and animation

Respomse: Reviewers such Goombastomp, Glass review, Gigguk (just to mention a few) have praised KNY (some even before ep 19 was released, just in case you make another false assertion) not just for its art, but its overall production (including direction, sound effects, soundtrack, and generic but still good story). All this is objectively verifiable facts, you can find their reviews on Google or YouTube.

Your second (more hilarious and again baseless) assertion: Vinland saga is the best seinen to come out in a long while

My response: Vinland saga's overall production (including art, sound effects, soundtrack, direction, pacing) is objectively subpar when held against any universally praised anime (not just KNY, but also Mob Psycho, Fate series by Ufotable, just to name a few).

The only possible redeeming factor for Vinland saga (which is probably why it is being hyped) is the story in the manga would get better (after ep 8, the latest episode released). I wouldn't know and I wouldn't comment on it because I've never read the manga. But given that MAL has a separate title and score for manga, shouldn't all these manga fans be limited to rating the manga high scores rather than hyping up the anime that is clearly not delivering and thus undeserving of its hype.
Another nonsensical reply. Your opinion isn’t nonsensical or over the top (I didn’t say it was either) because that’s your opinion and I can respect that. What I was referring to was the way you reply to people even the reason I never responded to your first reply to me days ago was because you went on some tangent about the definition of overrated or something I’m not bother to go back and check.

My point about the consensus being that KnY is nothing special was about MAL I thought that was clear but my bad for not specifying that. Still, I don’t see the relevance of anitubers and online reviewers opinions. They’re just average guys with their own opinions. I haven’t seen those videos and I’m not going to but I can acknowledge that KnY has great production value but I don’t think that justifies its praise when everything else is so lack luster to me. If you were a popular anituber who made a review would I still disagree with you? Yes Would your opinion mean more? No.

You say its story is generic but still good. I don’t see why something should be praised as the next great shounen for it then. Why accept such mediocrity just because it’s placed along side great production.

You seem to value production value more than anything else that makes anime great which is fine but I feel like it’s a waste of a viewing experience. Anyways you mentioned fate series and mob psycho for their production value. 1. They’re not seinen which is what I said Vinland saga was the best of in a while. 2. I don’t care how high the production value of something is. If I don’t like things like characters and story then I’m not gonna like the show I don’t care how well it’s made. Ping Pong looks ugly as fuck to me but I still that it’s one of the best anime.

Lastly you go on to say some shit about Vinland saga that I’m not gonna finish reading because you start taking about manga readers or whatever. Vinland saga clearly isn’t for you. You clearly stated the story would be a redeeming factor, which alongside having good characters is one of the most important things for an anime so I don’t know what to tell you I guess you just like shit than looks and sounds good no matter what goes on in the show.


*sigh* Arguing to someone who doesn't understand basic premises is going to be difficult and it doesn't help that I am brutally honest when I point out people's logical fallacies, because as we all know, when you're engaged in a debate you don't really care what's objectively true/false or logical, you get emotionally invested and the spite you feel from being told you're wrong just makes you more defensive and more convinced of your original position.

But I'm just one of those annoying people who love debates and can't let a logical fallacy pass without a scathing remark. (Honestly, it doesn't even bother me if you don't read this, I'm just enjoying the mental exercise of logical exposition and debate)

Anyway, here's the list of logical fallacies and factual errors in your reply:

1. You don't care about the definition of "overrated". If you don't even care about what "overrated" means, how do you decide what is overrated and what is not (which is the whole point of this "Most Overrated ..." forum)?

2. You meant my "reaction" was nonsensical and over the top, not my opinion, and by that you meant how I went off on "tangent" by talking about the definition of overrated. Well, I've explained why the definition of overrated is important. Let me reiterate it in another way. How do you say something is "beautiful" or "ugly" if you do not even first clarify what the definition of "beautiful" is? Same goes for "overrated".

3. I see you have narrowed your argument from "outside of KNY forum generally nobody thinks KNY is special" to "outside of KNY forum, but within MAL forum". Whether or not that's a genuine clarification or a retroactive amendment of position to salvage your argument, I don't know, but let's leave that aside for now.

This is yet another bare assertion without proof (which btw is again wrong), that "outside of KNY forum, but within MAL, nobody thinks KNY is special". If you go to the general forum about "most beautiful scenes in anime", you'll find multiple MAL users stating KNY ep 19 as one of the most beautiful scenes in anime.

4. I said reviewers have opined that KNY's story is "generic but good". You seem to have interpreted that to mean it is mediocre. That's not what it means. Generic means it revolves around a common theme, a story doesn't have to be "uncommon" to be good. For example, a hamburger is generic party food, but that doesn't mean a hamburger can't be heavenly, or top-tier food, just because it's common.

Conversely, just because something is uncommon, doesn't mean it must be good. That applies to both food and stories. For example, some communities eat tarantulas or other insects (that's uncommon), but that doesn't mean tarantulas or insects are amazing foods, just because they're uncommon.

5. You assert that I value production above everything else. That's your opinion which is clouded by your presumption that KNY is only commendable in terms of its production related areas (art, sound effects, soundtracks, voice acting, direction, etc.).

In any case, even if I apportion equal weight to studio production areas and story, KNY would outperform Vinland Saga because of the significant difference in performance of the former.

And like I said, if you're going to give such an overwhelming weight to the story as compared to other factors (anime production related factors like art, soundtrack, etc.) you might as well be assessing a novel. Even then, the beauty of the language/prose would affect one's rating of a novel. In any medium of entertainment or expression, the story is important, but so is how you tell it.

Anyway, as to your comments about how I'm a "fanboy... that everyone notices and dislikes", that's ad hominem, which is distasteful to say the least. And I see you've prowled the KNY forums and figured out my favorite character is Zenitsu and decided to target him, probably in an attempt to rile me up. Again, distasteful.
Modified by ShanAsuna, Aug 27, 10:00 AM
 
Aug 27, 9:50 AM

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Thanjh said:
ShanAsuna said:


*sigh* Arguing to someone who doesn't understand basic premises is going to be difficult and it doesn't help that I am brutally honest when I point out people's logical fallacies, because as we all know, when you're engaged in a debate you don't really care what's objectively true/false or logical, you get emotionally invested and the spite you feel from being told you're wrong just makes you more defensive and more convinced of your original position.

But I'm just one of those annoying people who love debates and can't let a logical fallacy pass without a scathing remark. (Honestly, it doesn't even bother me if you don't read this, I'm just enjoying the mental exercise of logical exposition and debate)

Anyway, here's the list of logical fallacies and factual errors in your reply:

1. You don't care about the definition of "overrated". If you don't even care about what "overrated" means, how do you intend to say anything with regards to what is overrated and what is not (which is the whole point of this "Most Overrated ..." forum)?

2. You meant my "reaction" was nonsensical and over the top, not my opinion, and by that you meant how I went off on "tangent" by talking about the definition of overrated. Well, I've explained why the definition of overrated is important. Let me reiterate it in another way. How do you say something is "beautiful" or "ugly" if you do not even first clarify what the definition of "beautiful" is? Same goes for "overrated".

3. I see you have narrowed your argument from "outside of KNY forum generally nobody thinks KNY is special" to "outside of KNY forum, but within MAL forum". Whether or not that's a genuine clarification or a retroactive amendment of position to salvage your argument, I don't know, but let's leave that aside for now.

This is yet another bare assertion without proof (which btw is again wrong), that "outside of KNY forum, but within MAL, nobody thinks KNY is special". If you go to the general forum about "most beautiful scenes in anime", you'll find multiple MAL users stating KNY ep 19 as one of the most beautiful scenes in anime.

4. I said reviewers have opined that KNY's story is "generic but good". You seem to have interpreted that to mean it is mediocre. That's not what it means. Generic means it revolves around a common theme, a story doesn't have to be "uncommon" to be good. For example, a hamburger is generic party food, but that doesn't mean a hamburger can't be heavenly, or top-tier food, just because it's common.

Conversely, just because something is uncommon, doesn't mean it must be good. That applies to both food and stories. For example, some communities eat tarantulas or other insects (that's uncommon), but that doesn't mean tarantulas or insects are amazing foods, just because they're uncommon.

5. You assert that I value production above everything else. That's your opinion which is clouded by your presumption that KNY is only commendable in terms of its production related areas (art, sound effects, soundtracks, voice acting, direction, etc.).

In any case, even if I apportion equal weight to studio production areas and story, KNY would outperform Vinland Saga because of the significant difference in performance of the former.

And like I said, if you're going to give such an overwhelming weight to the story as compared to other factors (anime production related factors like art, soundtrack, etc.) you might as well be assessing a novel. Even then, the beauty of the language/prose would affect one's rating of a novel. In any medium of entertainment or expression, the story is important, but so is how you tell it.

Anyway, as to your comments about how I'm a "fanboy... that everyone notices and dislikes", that's ad hominem, which is distasteful to say the least. And I see you've prowled my forums and figured out my favorite character is Zenitsu and decided to target him, probably in an attempt to rile me up. Again, distasteful.
God I'm not even interested in continuing the debate at this point but I don't know if you think you're special or something but I wouldn't go out of my way to find out your favorite character xD I think Zenitsu is shit and ruined the show, not just by his presence which annoys me but also by the change in tone that he brought with him. He spends his time acting scared and screaming and being used for comedy which I find to be very shit. He has his moments like defending nezuko's box but his moments of being annoying outnumber his moments of being likeable by a large margin for me.


Sure, if you say it's a coincidence, I'll take your word for it.
 
Aug 27, 10:53 AM
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Niggas been praising Kimetsu like its the saviour of anime, bruhh if it weren't for Ufotable... It reminds me of the praise of OPM S1, shit is average
 
Aug 27, 9:55 PM

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@ShanAsuna Oh god, you're not in any position to talk about objective qualities. Not even in giving criticism to be honest. Just like in your thread in the VS forum discussion, you don't back up your statements.

1) What's up with the nonsense about Vinland Saga's production being supposedly subpar in comparison to any other ''universally praised anime'' (you should rephrase this into ''every popular anime I like'' btw). It's impossible to back this up when there's an easy counterexample from this year lol; AoT S3 P2. You don't really thoroughly explain what your criticism of VS is other than ''this is bad/mediocre, that is good''.It's also impossible to objectively analyze the art and come to the conclusion it's mediocre. Try and do so?

2)
I think if the manga explained these ideological issues Thorfinn had, the anime should have adapted them, instead of wasting all that time on the slow starting episodes, which didn't really add anything to the story.


The 3 first episodes literally explain Thorfinn's ''ideological issues''. It showed how the whole village was ingrained in Viking culture, you know, the place of the protagonist's upbringing. On top of that his dad's teachings conflicted with everyone else's. There's a lot of dialogue about honour, it's objectively false that the anime didn't convey enough meaningful scenes to work with. You're nonsensical

I think this quote is also where your true intentions are shown, how does ''didn't really add anything to the story'' explain your position to anyone? How are you ''logical''? You're either deliberately dishonest or too far up your own ass. If you've already seen episode 8 by now it should be obvious why your thread was a huge pile of ill-informed shit.

3)
And like I said, if you're going to give such an overwhelming weight to the story as compared to other factors (anime production related factors like art, soundtrack, etc.) you might as well be assessing a novel. Even then, the beauty of the language/prose would affect one's rating of a novel. In any medium of entertainment or expression, the story is important, but so is how you tell it.


And in a visual medium you want to be spoonfed right away by internal monolgue? Because if YOU didn't understand it it's the fault of the story? Even if other people did understand it? Again, it's clear you've never studied any form of criticism otherwise you wouldn't be making these ridiculous points. There's nothing wrong with production values or story-telling. You can only fall back to "I didn't feel anything!'', which is to be expected when you let everything go over your head and don't pay attention to other viewers who did pick things up. This is all subjective territory.


 
Aug 27, 10:05 PM

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I feel as though Re: Zero is overrated. I've already went into a lot of detail in other threads why I think that, so I'll just be brief here:

-Protagonist with 0 backstory, and likeable traits
-Story with no clear direction
-Story constantly kills off characters we have no reason to care for
-Tonal clash between the dark tone and art style, and not for a specific contrast like Higurashi; it's tonal clash for the sake of appealing to more people by using a cute art style, instead of servicing the story.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
Aug 27, 10:16 PM

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Underrated - Sket dance, Beelzebub, Golden kamuy, house of 5 leaves.
 
Aug 28, 12:17 AM
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Underrated: Mori wa Ikiteiru, Yuureisen, Malay-oki Kaisen, Inaka Isha, Shisha no Sho, Magical Angel Creamy Mami

Overrated: Nearly everything popular
 
Aug 28, 3:53 AM

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ShanAsuna said:
@Elucid


I'm sorry I have to post my reply to your private message here, but since you've disabled the receipt of messages, I have no other choice if I wanted to give you a response.

First of all, thanks for the private message, I appreciate it.

This would probably surprise Vinland saga fans who have gotten into heated debates with me, but I am honestly open to different preferences in anime. I would never criticise someone for saying, "Vinland Saga is my favorite anime". My arguments with Vinland Saga fans only arise when they are stating an objective statement such as "Kimetsu no Yaiba is overrated, Vinland Saga is underrated".

Now the subtle difference between the two statements may not be immediately obvious to most people, but I'm a stickler for logical arguments and concise expressions (as you have probably observed from my lengthy posts on different forums). When we say something is "overrated" or "underrated", it is predicated on the assumption that there is an objective assessment of anime, in terms of how good or bad they are, because only with this objective scale, can we then proceed to say whether the "hype" or "praise" or "MAL score" given to the anime is deserving or undeserving (overrated/underrated).

I have read and understood your point of view on why you like Vinland Saga as an anime. I do not agree with them, as you already know, but I can respect that you have a different opinion. After all, our opinions are subjective. We like different things probably due to our different personal experiences, upbringing, political, cultural, or gender-based differences, etc.

It is only when we assert or imply our opinions are objective (such as when we use the terms overrated/underrated) that these opinions will be justifiably subjected to intensive scrutiny. After all, something can only be objectively good or bad when there are objective factors upon which we may measure them. I personally believe there IS an objective assessment for the quality of anime and there are several objective factors which we can use to assess an anime. But that's a topic for another day.

Anyway, thanks again for the email. I like engaging in discussions about anime so I appreciate the effort. This is probably contrary to the belief of my "opponents" in forum discussions, but I harbor no ill will towards anyone just because they argue against my point of view. However, I must admit I will judge people based on their opinions/statements because I believe it is a reflection of their intellect and character (as do most of us, I believe).

Best of luck in finding the next awesome anime and see you around on MAL

Oh yeah, sorry about that haha. It should be fixed, apologies.
I'm not going to make a ton of paragraphs evaluating what you said (I don't have time for that at the moment.) So I'll make it brief.

- I expected you to disagree with my opinions, I was right.
- There can be ways to objectively measure something's quality, however what matters is enjoyment and taste. If a show has mediocre art but great characters and story and you like those aspects, you'll enjoy it. Vice versa.
- Art is like asking someone what they think of a painting, people will have different perspectives. Someone will think it's bland, while another will think it's inspiring. In this case regarding Vinland Saga, both of us see opposite sides.
- I hate the term "Overrated/Underrated" due to the intense scrutiny of subjectivity as you mentioned. I prefer the term: "I dislike [show]." as it calmly conveys subjectivity instead of slamming forced objectivity while showing immense subjectivity.
About Vinland Saga: If you stay long enough, there's another main character who has a very interesting development that might save you from Thorfinn. That's when it reaches the part where this series gets the most recognition. You might actually enjoy it, who knows.
Story comes first, art comes second.
 
Aug 28, 9:40 AM

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Every single overrated/underrated anime forum thread in a nutshell
 
Aug 28, 10:53 AM

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Oh shit, um.. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is pretty underrated? haha.

Idk, I guess any super old obscure anime/hentai is almost always disregarded.

Also why is this thread a thing.

Should've been titled obscure anime that never gets talked about or something instead.

This is bait thread.
 
Aug 30, 11:15 AM
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Seven Deadly Sins, Fairy Tail, Naruto, Naruto Shippuuden
 
Sep 15, 12:15 AM
lonely love

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I'll copy/paste what I said in a Discord chat:

Mo Dao Zu Shi

Guys, if you haven't seen Mo Dao Zu Shi, and you like any or all of the following:
1. Zombies
2. Action
3. Gorgeous backgrounds
4. Gay sexual tension
5. Political drama
6. Strong women
7. China
8. Fantasy

Watch it. It's so good, 10/10, one of the best of the past decade.
To prove my point about gorgeous backgrounds, here are some screenshots, all just from a single episode:




This show is criminally underrrated.


i ached for you throughout time
i was left forgotten
through my tears i saw your sillhouette
yet i couldn't call out to you
filled with this unspeakable yearning called love


interview quiz
 
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