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Poll: Joker Game Episode 2 Discussion


#1
Apr 12, 2016 7:21 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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There's definitely some war propaganda going on in this series now.

Thrilling episode. I kinda like the fact that there's internal conflicts going on between members of the spies and superiors. Individually, we don't learn too much about the D Agency members yet but I think the show is doing a decent job at flushing out some of their personalities. Sakuma in particular is an interesting character and Mutou got owned hard lol
Modified by Stark700, Apr 12, 2016 10:29 AM
 
#2
Apr 12, 2016 10:15 AM
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https://twitter.com/jokergame_anime/status/718378120542351360

"After Episode 1 and 2, the members of the D Agency will change their names once more. As this is all part of being a spy, you’ll be fine if you don’t remember all their names. Lieutenant colonel Yuki will still keep his."
 
#3
Apr 12, 2016 10:35 AM

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Damn that Harakiri scene. It feels so intense even when he didn't really "finish" it in the end.
 
#4
Apr 12, 2016 10:40 AM

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another amazing episode!
mutou got rekt through and through, now he has no choice but to work with them, muhaha. ;c
 
#5
Apr 12, 2016 10:42 AM

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I really enjoyed this episode. It's just annoying to see all the Japanese pro-war propaganda in it. It seems like some scenes are almost trying to romanticize it. Who knows, I don't know how the Japanese people felt about the war back then, but it seems everyone in this anime is "happy" about it, for the lack of better words. Either way, I still enjoyed the episode thoroughly. It took time to figure out what they were talking about between the agency and the MP being involved. I just now realized he is a liason between the two organizations. I honestly thought he was a spy through and through with the ideals of a soldier, but I guess he is more of a soldier with spy potential acting as a messenger between the two organizations.

Can anyone explain why they couldn't touch the Imperial picture? Was there a law against tampering with photos of the Imperial at that time kind of like treason or something like that? Or destruction/defamation of the nation and its property?
 
#6
Apr 12, 2016 10:46 AM

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That was fantastic, wow.

Sakuma turned badass in the time of one episode! Yuuki is a huge boss :D
 
#7
Apr 12, 2016 10:48 AM

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Cejara said:
I really enjoyed this episode. It's just annoying to see all the Japanese pro-war propaganda in it. It seems like some scenes are almost trying to romanticize it. Who knows, I don't know how the Japanese people felt about the war back then, but it seems everyone in this anime is "happy" about it, for the lack of better words. Either way, I still enjoyed the episode thoroughly. It took time to figure out what they were talking about between the agency and the MP being involved. I just now realized he is a liason between the two organizations. I honestly thought he was a spy through and through with the ideals of a soldier, but I guess he is more of a soldier with spy potential acting as a messenger between the two organizations.

Can anyone explain why they couldn't touch the Imperial picture? Was there a law against tampering with photos of the Imperial at that time kind of like treason or something like that? Or destruction/defamation of the nation and its property?


As far as I understand, yes the Japanese take pride in stuff like war because of their bushido and other traditional beliefs. Oh well.

As for the Imperial pic, at this point, (Meiji era I think), the Japanese emperor, who was once powerless behind the shogun, now regained their 'heavenly' status from Shinto, so touching that pic is like desecrating a cross as a Christian would view. So yes, it would be a treason.
Modified by JPthugnificent, Apr 12, 2016 10:52 AM
 
#8
Apr 12, 2016 10:54 AM

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Did we really need about 3-4 minutes of flashbacks in the second episode? Really very little happened this episode and I hope it picks up the next few.
 
#9
Apr 12, 2016 10:58 AM
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Aside the looooong flashback, it was a nice episode. I'd like to see more of the internal conflict and the other spies.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:00 AM

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Interesting resolve overall, and another neat episode. Looks like this show really will be a great watch!
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:00 AM

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Tokoya said:
I'm never gonna get tired of this OP~
I could watch it all day. Based I.G.
I don't exist. But, maybe, I once did.
Twitter \\ Reviews // YouTube
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:04 AM

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Nice ED! Production I.G really upping their game with the animations. The last scene with the pink tree and the soldiers marching were so beautiful.
The MC's character development is great. Now he's starting to see the bigger picture in play.
Yuuki is a very interesting character, a little background about him would be great.
The war background with the spy setting has grabbed hold of me tighter now with the second ep.
Onto the next one!
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:04 AM

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For a moment I really thought he was gonna kill himself
"I lost all of what you could call feelings of love. They weren't sealed, so they can't be released. They weren't broken, so they can't be fixed. That which is lost, cannot be recovered." Shiba Tatsuya
"There are no regrets. If one can be proud of one's life, one should not wish for another chance." Saber
"No matter what happens, no matter how crazy things get, I'll always try to restore balance." Korra
"It's madness to let others take what's yours and accept it blindly." Baatar Jr
"Instinct is a lie, told by a fearful body, hoping to be wrong." Zaheer
"Partner in crime, partner in time" Chloe Price and Max Caulfield
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:08 AM

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Sakuma was able to find the evidence.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:08 AM

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Nice, I enjoyed this episode a lot. Can't wait for more...
I really liked Sakuma's character on this episode. It will be interesting to see the development of his character on this series.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:10 AM

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Nice to see Sakuma realize the trick himself before harakiri.
some internal conflict between agency goverment also mention it.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:16 AM

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Another interesting episode. Sakuma is one smart guy. He would be a fine spy if he wants to.


 
Apr 12, 2016 11:23 AM

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Pretty nice that Sakuma figured it out, a bit short on that part, but not something I found completely bad. He is a pretty nice MC so far, I really like his way of thinking aswell.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:24 AM

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Do some still have something to say against Sakuma? The young Lieutenant was simply amazing. Job well done, boy. Hopefully we'll see him again cuz I have a feeling that, probably, the following episodes will start focusing solely on the spies.
ウォリック
アルカンジェロ
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:26 AM
Acid flashback

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It seems that the game will be a much between themselves (domestic power struggles) as it will be with foreign powers. I like it that they're taking things nice and slowl. No doubt there will be those that thought it was slow and 'nothing happened' though.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
Apr 12, 2016 11:31 AM

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Pretty interesting. I'm glad that it's something very different than I thought at the beginning.
Dub = fake crap. Always.
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:32 AM

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wow Sakuma's quick thinking... it's great how Miyoshi's brief talk of tautology helped lead Sakuma's trail of thought to the imperial portrait (along with childhood flashbacks)

... of course none of that would've mattered had they weren't acting as the imperial army.

Sakuma clearly hiding his intelligence...
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:50 AM

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my favourite anime of the season so far. really like the characters and the setting.
Chimera-Ant Arc sucks
A1-Pictures is great
Lelouch is alive
 
Apr 12, 2016 11:57 AM

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12 episodes... and such a huge premise... 2 episodes gone. Don't think we'll be getting much out of this.
_____ _ _ ______


Within pain, there is desire.

_____ _ _ ______
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:01 PM

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Kundalini said:
12 episodes... and such a huge premise... 2 episodes gone. Don't think we'll be getting much out of this.


It's adapting the full novel, so I don't see why not.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:05 PM

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What a dull episode. Almost 6 minutes of flashbacks for no real reason (flashbacks are NOT needed in the second episode, for goodness sake!) and then the show seemed utterly determined to shy away from much in the way of actual animation to present things in as boring a manner as possible. Oh, and the inevitable war propaganda is very annoying and only makes this worse.

I really do hope that this can improve though.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:11 PM

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Owww, how cute! ^^ "I refuse to be a pawn who is used, then cast aside!"

Still a matter of who sets the chessboard/s, but everyone begins from somewhere, right? :D

5/5 for episode 2, and keep it up!
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:26 PM

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definitely a great and interesting episode. and it was a little bit mind blowing to me.
i like how they revealed everything like that. like i didn't even expect that.
i'm going to like this series more than before if something like this will happen in the future episode :D

kinda reminds me of No Game No Life.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:27 PM

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danieltortoisee said:
What a dull episode. Almost 6 minutes of flashbacks for no real reason (flashbacks are NOT needed in the second episode, for goodness sake!) and then the show seemed utterly determined to shy away from much in the way of actual animation to present things in as boring a manner as possible. Oh, and the inevitable war propaganda is very annoying and only makes this worse.

I really do hope that this can improve though.


I totally agree, but I still do hope things improve.
I like the premise and setting but so far they seem intent on doing nothing with it.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:28 PM

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Cejara said:
I really enjoyed this episode. It's just annoying to see all the Japanese pro-war propaganda in it. It seems like some scenes are almost trying to romanticize it. Who knows, I don't know how the Japanese people felt about the war back then, but it seems everyone in this anime is "happy" about it, for the lack of better words.


You wouldn't make a good spy then :P The whole episode mocked it, though subtly. The very reason that the American spy almost got away was because the Japanese soldiers saw their country through such romantic goggles and thus did not even consider "desecrating" the Imperial portrait (or the fact that an American would not give a BLEEP about such symbols). Like in the first episode, the Japanese soldiers are presented as brainwashed... and stupid.

In other words, the presentation of Japanese society here is the Joker Game: if you think the Anime glorifies this society, than you are seeing a Poker Game. But if you pay a little more attention, you will realize that this is actually a joker Game. Like a spy, the author criticizes this era of Japanese history subtly, rather than by having his characters criticize it directly (it isn't really that subtle tbh so I'm surprised that so many people see "Poker" here).

Cejara said:
Can anyone explain why they couldn't touch the Imperial picture? Was there a law against tampering with photos of the Imperial at that time kind of like treason or something like that? Or destruction/defamation of the nation and its property?


Not sure if there's a law, but these soldiers were brainwashed into worshiping Japan, worshiping the government and were taught not too think much about it. That's why, in the last ep, the MC was shocked that the spies considered the possibility of Japan losing a war: the soldiers here think that this is impossible. It obviously doesn't make sense, but a brainwashed soldier doesn't think properly.
So when they saw the portrait of their divine Emperor, they did not even consider touching it. They revered it and kept their fingers away. But a spy, who is taught to think rationally, did not have such stances and "desecrated it" without a second thought.

That's what a militarist society is like. The soldiers don't need to think: they need to die for their country. And these unreasonable beliefs make them more efficient on the battlefield because they are less likely to get terrified, start running away, complain about their suffering, etc.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:30 PM

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the pace was really good, it only felt like a 15 minute episode
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:32 PM

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@Nayrael

It seems like the MC is a little brainwashed too then, since he keeps talking about willingly dying as a soldier although he doesn't mind doing the other stuff as well, since he is a liason.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:38 PM

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Wow, great episode this week! Loved to see that the MC isn't just a mindless soldier.

Didn't really care about the propaganda since it was wartime Japan anyway, and they were imperialists before they got nuked by Murica.
I need sleep.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:39 PM

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Cejara said:
It seems like the MC is a little brainwashed too then, since he keeps talking about willingly dying as a soldier although he doesn't mind doing the other stuff as well, since he is a liason.


Yep, he did not change that much since the last ep. But a larger change than that would be unrealistic and sudden. Heck, I'm surprised that he even had a brain after all that went on in the last ep.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:44 PM

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Gg Sakuma! The flashback was a bit unnecessary though.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:46 PM

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I like where the series is heading however I don't need a flashback from something that happened in the same episode I don't have the memory of a goldfish (I am not referring to the ones they used to show his reasoning).
Planetes said:
Living alone and dying alone... alone... How could anyone be satisfied with that? It's stupid... Space is too big to face all alone.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:49 PM

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It's thought-provoking. Though a little bit more philosophy and politics will make it more amazing.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:50 PM
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I felt like the flashback wasn't really needed for this episode, but the episode in itself was better than I could imagine from the series. Really see some interest into this the more I watch it to be honest.
 
Apr 12, 2016 12:50 PM

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Nice episode. The slow pace made me savor the details even more.
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.

But does the heart have the right perspective?
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:02 PM

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I laugh at EVERYONE that doubted and hated on Sakuma....

It's only the second episode and this man already got great character development and became a fucking BADASS

This episode was fucking GOAT and Based Yuuki is a fucking boss lol
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:08 PM

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JPthugnificent said:
Cejara said:
I really enjoyed this episode. It's just annoying to see all the Japanese pro-war propaganda in it. It seems like some scenes are almost trying to romanticize it. Who knows, I don't know how the Japanese people felt about the war back then, but it seems everyone in this anime is "happy" about it, for the lack of better words. Either way, I still enjoyed the episode thoroughly. It took time to figure out what they were talking about between the agency and the MP being involved. I just now realized he is a liason between the two organizations. I honestly thought he was a spy through and through with the ideals of a soldier, but I guess he is more of a soldier with spy potential acting as a messenger between the two organizations.

Can anyone explain why they couldn't touch the Imperial picture? Was there a law against tampering with photos of the Imperial at that time kind of like treason or something like that? Or destruction/defamation of the nation and its property?


As far as I understand, yes the Japanese take pride in stuff like war because of their bushido and other traditional beliefs. Oh well.

As for the Imperial pic, at this point, (Meiji era I think), the Japanese emperor, who was once powerless behind the shogun, now regained their 'heavenly' status from Shinto, so touching that pic is like desecrating a cross as a Christian would view. So yes, it would be a treason.


It's the early Showa era (1926-1989), not the Meiji. The Meiji era is when the attitude shown in this anime started though, so I can see how you got confused. Basically Japan pre-1945 was increasingly nationalistic and Emperor Hirohito (the emperor in 1937) is considered the last "divine" emperor. The easiest way to think about it is to compare it how much older civilisations thought of their rulers: Ancient Egypt believed the pharaoh was an incarnation of the god Horus, Chinese emperors were thought to be the sons of heaven, etc. Shinto (the main Japanese religion) often claimed that the emperor was descended from the goddess Amaterasu, the sun goddess. This led a lot of people to go as far as to worship their emperor and, like other religious artefacts (the cross is a good example), moving it can be considered sacrilegious, especially considering how right-wing and outright fascist Japan was becoming (you can read more on this here). It wasn't until 1946 that Hirohito personally spoke out and debunked this belief, calling the emperor instead a "symbol of the state and unity of the people". Hopefully this is enough for everyone in the thread to get an understanding of the meaning of that scene.
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:14 PM

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Well, if it continues like that, it'll definitely be one of my favourite anime of this season ^^
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:19 PM

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Great episode ! I enjoyed it a lot...

.
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:23 PM

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Another very good episode! The flashback was nice too. I mean, it doesn't matter if not much actually progressed in real time of the story, it go lot of stuff happening at the same time. However as the viewer, we only saw a small part. Going back to it allow us to understand the events and as an episode, there is full of content.

Also, people keeps complaining about the nationalism. Yet they don't understand the history. Japan back then were very pro-war. This irritates me because this anime shows no evidence of real nationalistic view by the creators. You gusy are misunderstanding the historical accuracy with nationalism.
This really irritates me since most of these people have no clue on the history and is complaining about it.

The government took the ideals of "Greater East Co-Prosperity Sphere" as a propaganda. That term existed befroe the army took it as their own FYI.
In Japan at the time, the West is greatly despised. A bit over 40 years ago from the story's timeline, Japan were forced in to unfair treaties. Though Japan gradually modernized and got out of that situation, they were still forced down in numerous naval treaties or peace conferences that was seen as unfavorable(ie. Russo-Japanese war)

The military used this as propaganda and the populace grew to dislike the West. While Japan itself was pretty fine, countries like China was not. Even though Japan participated in exploiting China, the populace didn't need to know that. In fact Army propaganda told the populace they will unite Asia against the West. Where the "Co-prosperity sphere" term comes from.
It's just a excuse for an invasion of course.

The Japanese civilians agrees to this ideal, which is why they are very pro-war. The anime depicts this. Also, the sign on the D-Agency building so happens to say "Co-prosperity sphere." But for those only know entry-level history of the war from highschool classes would not know this and think it's the producer's nationalism at work.
Also Nayrael brings a good point. Sakuma is your typical Japanese soldier of the time. Trained to die for the emperor, even if they don't really want to. The anime clearly depicts him as slower than the others and not so bright. If you don't think so, watch the first episode. I know most of you thought he was dumb. If that isn't criticism, then what is?
Modified by zcv45, Apr 12, 2016 1:28 PM
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:27 PM

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So glad Sakuma didn't die (though I had the impression he wouldn't bite the dust since the last episode). I like him as a MC, very analytical and quickly realizing of the things even in the hardest moments. The scene with him talking about how he discovered Yuuki's guise show how much he has understanding the Joker Game so far.

The flahbacks were a bit unnecessary, though. I hope this keep getting better and better.
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:42 PM
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Sakuma went mediocre to awesome really freaking fast! Now I love this MC!

4/5
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:46 PM

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Good anime but i dont buy the hype yet, episode 2 had minor mistakes.

Like he has his prosthetic arm exposed, u dont need god damn finger-prints to realise it is prosthetic. THat was just too forced and stupid.

THen he says he refuses to be a pawn and then be thrown away, the definition of hardcore Japan soldiers of that era were like that, and an idealist like him doesnt making sense suddenly saying that.

Anime is ''trying'' to be good, but it makes mistakes, still interested though
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:49 PM

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@zcv45

This level of propaganda is only to serve as a counterpoint for Sakuma's character development. As a soldier, "though and through", he is prepared to die. And while he wouldn't gratuitously accept the D-Agency MO either, he is not willing to give his life freely in order to grease the bleeding butt of his more than incompetent superior.
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:49 PM

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Sakuma made a big comeback thankfully. From being average and naive in the first episode, then doing a complete 180 and becoming being badass in the next episode. let's hope he stays this way as he's awesome like this! =D

It's also impressive that he's already seen through Yuuki's disguise so easily. Like what the others here said, Sakuma is understanding the Joker Game more and more now.

The only criticism I have for this episode was the flashbacks early in the episode, which felt a little long and and slightly unnecessary. Apart from that, this episode was really good. =)
 
Apr 12, 2016 1:56 PM

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I'm glad Sakuma realized on time that both Mutou and Miyoshi were making a ''trap'' for him, and made the best out of it. Although he himself said that he didn't even get to participate in their Joker game, he is definitely showing as spy material.
In any case he came from ''what are you doing, that's cheating'' to ''i'm tired of being a pawn and cast aside'', and I call that improvement.
Modified by Shimai_ni, Apr 12, 2016 1:59 PM
Noir… It is the name of an ancient fate. Two sisters who watch anime. The peace of the newly born, their black hands protect.
 
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