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Poll: Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 12 Discussion


Mar 25, 2016 8:30 PM

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Noo that ending :(

I wonder why in the present time Kiku never explained to Konatsu about how her parents actually died.
I need sleep.
 
Mar 25, 2016 8:42 PM

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Lol that ending was so cheesy it made me cringe a little. Is that really how Miyokichi and Sukeroku died? Kiku must have been working out since he can lift two person with one hand.
"I have been wielding a blade since before your were swimming around your father's scrotum." - Kurou
 
Mar 25, 2016 9:00 PM
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There's something fishy about Sukeroku and Miyokichi's death.

#1 I'm pretty sure Kikuhiko is not strong enough to hold two grown adults dangling from the edge of a building.

#2 Isn't that the same balcony that Sukeroku was leaning on earlier in the episode? Surely, the wood can't be so old that it breaks with two people on it.

#3 Kikuhiko licking Miyokichi...gross. He has never visibly been attracted to her beyond kissing in private and even then it was framed as "practice" rather than anything heartfelt. SO, what's with the sudden intimacy?!

#4 I can't fully believe that Sukeroku would give up rakugo THAT easily. He's seen Kikuhiko practice while taking side jobs so, he could have just done rakugo on the side rather than abandon it. Sure Miyo hates but, guess what; she also abandoned her child ans claimed she didn't like that it belonged to Sukreroku so f**k her! There's also the comment on how good of a "storyteller" Kikuhiko has become which leads me to...

#5 Can we trust Kikuhiko? Typically when things get all emotional for him, the scenes become more theatrical and askewed BG imagery shows up. True, his best friend and ...whatever Miyo was both died but, the ending felt too staged. Even when Sukeroku says "Let me accompany her to Hell" sounds nothing as caring as he typically acts. It actually references back to what Miyo said to Kikuhiko when they broke up!!!

This was a beautiful episode but, it also makes me doubt that we have the full story. Kontastu's side is vital for a better understanding. Haven't read the manga but, I forgot about the flashback Kontatsu had.
 
Mar 25, 2016 9:10 PM

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GoldenDevilGamer said:
I feel like begging to Deen to give this a second season, just like Konosuba and Reikenzan. Even though we knew what was gonna happen, it was so f*cking intense. Brilliant writing.

6/5


This doesn't need a second season. Unless it ends on a huge cliffhanger on the last episode.
 
Mar 25, 2016 9:14 PM

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Shame that episodes 2-8 were such a drag. Important for character development, but what a drag. My enjoyment level for those episodes was really low.

But episodes 9-12 have been masterpiece level.
 
Mar 25, 2016 9:23 PM
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I understand the reason why Sukeroku finally raised the white flag with rakugo. Heck, your younger brother in bond is bound to die and your wife is dragging him all the way to hell. It's been a recurring theme in this season that Miyokichi is not interested with rakugo at all - she stays and leaves due to Kikuhiko's performance. I even doubt she listens to his rakugo at all because her complements revolve Kiku's looks rather than his performance. Notice she even left when Sukeroku started his performance.

Miyokichi thought the very same thing which her husband loved is also the thing that kept her away from the man she loved so a scorned woman did this. Overboard? No. She is way past her prime and her experience taught her to seek that path. We might hate her but she has no other choice. Her profession values youthful beauty (granted she is really gorgeous but time is not kind with everyone). Her younger years were full of deception so it must be embedded to her that she lives and dies with a man.

Sukeroku knows her hatred to that profession and her desire to be with Kikuhiko so he made his last wager to set the latter free from her macabre plan. It must be really hard to finally give up the thing you always wanted. Probably it is due to his hiatus as a performer but man, to say goodbye with your passion will reduce an individual to a bawling mess.

For Kikuhiko, he gave in to his human desires. That's all. He has been lonely being alone and he was carried away in the mood - much like what humans do. I think he is the least messed up in the three but his actions do not acquit him from being a flawed character.

Now that I think about it, I am glad the death scene was not that dramatic. I expected waterworks but they kept it to a point where we are still shocked but was subtle enough not to be called a melodrama. This kind of shock is much more effective than what ERASED did this season. Wow.

For more Shouwa Rakugo thoughts, here's my blog. With or without season 2, I calmly placed it as one of my most favorite shows.
 
Mar 25, 2016 9:25 PM
SHSL Good Luck

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ooo333 said:
GoldenDevilGamer said:
I feel like begging to Deen to give this a second season, just like Konosuba and Reikenzan. Even though we knew what was gonna happen, it was so f*cking intense. Brilliant writing.

6/5


This doesn't need a second season. Unless it ends on a huge cliffhanger on the last episode.
We're only seeing half of the story because there's a second arc in the manga which is after Kiku's flashback arc. The manga's ending this year and it seems like this series will adapt exactly half of it. There should be a second season.
 
Mar 25, 2016 10:03 PM

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Anime of the season so far!
 
Mar 25, 2016 10:46 PM

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HybridMBL said:
It takes an expert writer to show something you expect and still surprise you.

No other show this season portrays human relationships as authentically as this one. BRAVO


Agreed. I'm impressed at how true, how authentic this series has been in portraying its characters throughout the whole show.

Those ranting about how unrealistic the characters were lack life experience; this is in truth how people behave. Just read any newspaper and you will find tons of articles of people behaving in ways inexplicable or illogical at first sight, but if you understand their motivations and more importantly, their emotions it becomes clear.

For example, Kiku had the strongest of reasons for wanting to stay with Bon and Miyokichi, together; he loves them both. The show gives us plenty of clues, I suggest a rewatch to pick them up.

This episode was painful to watch because its perhaps, too real especially at the climax. At the same time, I was relieved that Kiku, whose character I quite liked was not cheaply cast as a murderer for the sake of moving the plot.
 
Mar 25, 2016 11:16 PM
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I was a bit worried about this episode because it started to seem like Miyokichi would be played off as a bad human being when throughout the show she was given valid reasons why she was the way she was. But that ending was so abrupt, beautiful and tragic. I believe she and Sukeroku were given a proper send off, even though it was seriously upsetting to watch.
 
Mar 25, 2016 11:28 PM

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Shin's performance was so touching!

I never expected that ending!
 
Mar 25, 2016 11:44 PM

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When Miyo refer Sukeroku as "Darling", it takes for granted that Miyo is actually serious about her relationship with Sukeroku. But the problem is that Sukeroku always have this hang-up feeling about doing a proper job or to continue his rakugo, and as a result he never get either done. Fed up with her useless husband, Miyo left the house. And finally when Kiku came, he is like a saviour to both of them. But alas, just when they finally got their resolve, that accident happen.

Man Rakugo, so far so good. I love the scene where Kiku licked Miyo's tears. It really shows Kiku's buried down desire for sexual relationship after all this time only thinking about his career.
"Whenever you fail at something, always remember that you won't fail as much as Usagi Drop did."
 
Mar 26, 2016 12:29 AM

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I'll state the obvious, Sukeroku's performance parallels how he told Miyokichi he'd give up rakugo.
 
Mar 26, 2016 2:16 AM

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Man, that did not turn out how I was expecting it to. From how Konatsu seemed to act towards Kiku at the start and the translation of the title, it seemed like there would be a voluntary and mutual agreement of both Sukeroku and Miyokichi dying. But going out in an accident? That caught me by surprise.

Just as Sukeroku was starting to make improvements. His Kuma story was very mature for him, given that we've always seen him doing pure comedy stories. Having one with a moral message - especially one which parallels his own situation - was a step in maturity for him.

I do wonder how next week's finale will work out.
It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether!
It's an entirely different kind of flying.
 
Mar 26, 2016 2:25 AM

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HOLY SHIT THAT WAS TOO GOOD.
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Mar 26, 2016 3:08 AM

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TT_______________________TT oh god
 
Mar 26, 2016 3:15 AM

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I was gawking like an idiot for the last 5 minutes.

I actually teared up at Sukeroku's performance, even though I don't particularly like him.

Kiku's apology to Miyokuchi made me really sad then he went and punched me in the face right after that when he licked her cheek. Wow there Bon.

Then that huge confession from Sukeroku.

THEN THAT FALL. WHAT.

The relationship between Yurie and Sukeroku really developed offscreen. Kiku admitted that he never knew her real name despite her infatuation.. I honestly don't believe that Yurie still felt strongly attached to Kiku though. Rather, when things were at a low point with Sukeroku (she was broken) she ran back to her ex and, caught up in her emotions, suggest a lover's suicide. Kiku's effect on both her and Sukeroku are crazy.

That fall looking more symbolic than realistic was really great as well.

Bloody hell. This series.
 
Mar 26, 2016 3:30 AM

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Very good episode.The ending was pretty impactful, although as soon as the last scene appeared, it was obvious what to be expected. It surely need a second season for me as there some things that feels incomplete for Sukeroku's daughter.
I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die.
 
Mar 26, 2016 3:34 AM

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Gersen said:
Fai said:
Okay so, the ending felt weird and it kind of contradicts what we see in the first episode where it looks like the he got stabbed.
Since this is kind of flashback, could we have a case of unreliable narrator? Because that whole end scene felt like a freaking actual play instead of real life. Will we get like 3 different versions of how it transpired or something?


Oh okay that kind of makes me relieved.
 
Mar 26, 2016 4:13 AM

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Finally only one episode left. I hope it finishes whole story including what's happening in adult Konatsu and new descipline.
~♥~ Otaku + Otaku - Otaku = Otaku ~♥~
 
Mar 26, 2016 4:15 AM

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Inugirlz said:
I don't know how to reply to this. I absolutely agree with you on everything but I can't entirely accept that Kiku isn't somewhat to blame. He did like her but decided work was more important so he threw her to the wind and then he didn't completely go apeshit on his friend when he went after her.


Yeah, but well, to some people their job is simply more important, and that doesn't make them "bad", that just makes them who they are. We can observe this difference between Sukeroku and Kiku as well: while Kiku loves rakugo as a form of art, Sukeroku finds it the most important to connect with others ("you can't do rakugo alone"). And as we know, even if he wanted to have a wife, he'd have to choose a woman of a higher status. All that he could suggest to Miyo was an eternal continuation of that secret affair.

Besides, how would his marriage with Miyokichi turn out? Would she also drag him into that tiny town and then eat him regularly on how he doesn't have a PROPER job? I lost my shit during Konatsu's story when she went like "Mom didn't find dad's job normal enough so she became a slut". THAT's one PROPER job for a mother or for any person, eh? ^^'

And as for Sukeroku, he practically begged their master to accept him back, so I believe he had always cared. I think he should have come to check on him sooner, though.

***

I'll accept that my judgement might be clouded by my opinion on Yurie. She basically confessed that she didn't have a personality of her own and was just some material in every new lover's hands to be molded however he would wish. So I'm not sure that the way she's with Kiku and her "love" for him were real. Neither am I sure that she had ever cared for Sukeroku. That's why I'm not even sure that all that "dramatic suffering" of hers can be trusted.
We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to.
 
Mar 26, 2016 4:42 AM

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Beautiful episode,best show with erased for sure
Lead me out of the dark,bishounen space Jesus.
 
Mar 26, 2016 4:46 AM

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D4rkn3s5 said:
Beautiful episode,best show with erased for sure


ahahaha, sorry nope. Erased can't even compare to this.

This is actually art. Erased is just trash.
 
Mar 26, 2016 4:52 AM

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Shin's still got it~ Rakugo is like riding a bicycle. Once you learn it you'll never forget it. Truly a treat to see Shin doing a sentimental Rakugo. Yurei/Miyokichi and Konatsu really did change him for keeps.

I'm not sure why Kiku embraced Yurei. It seemed like he didn't have any feelings for her but in fact he actually did? I kinda felt like he was betraying Shin for a moment there and that broke my heart.

I can't believe it's all over next episode! I'm excited to finally see Yotarou again! When I saw episode 1 over a month ago I didn't know nearly as much about Kiku and Shin as I do now. It'll be interesting to revisit the opening episode and try and see the young Kiku within the old one.


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Mar 26, 2016 6:11 AM

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I'm not sure why Kiku embraced Yurei. It seemed like he didn't have any feelings for her but in fact he actually did? I kinda felt like he was betraying Shin for a moment there and that broke my heart.


My personal interpretation is that he felt responsible for the suffering he had caused her and was giving her what he felt she wanted to make her feel better. So not that he really had feelings for her, but he "owed" it to her to go along with it.
 
Mar 26, 2016 6:53 AM
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Goodness, this episode was marvelous from beginning to end. Sukeroku's rakugo, Yurie's return (beautiful name) and that fall... Outstanding anime!
The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein
 
Mar 26, 2016 7:07 AM

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Jesus Christ my heart, it fucking hurts. I don't remember the last time I actually cried like this...
The Anime is easily one of the best I've seen in the past two years. I really don't have much to say. I just really like this Anime. And I will sorely miss it after it finishes.
 
Mar 26, 2016 7:39 AM

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YayPepsi said:
I'm not sure why Kiku embraced Yurei. It seemed like he didn't have any feelings for her but in fact he actually did? I kinda felt like he was betraying Shin for a moment there and that broke my heart.


My personal interpretation is that he felt responsible for the suffering he had caused her and was giving her what he felt she wanted to make her feel better. So not that he really had feelings for her, but he "owed" it to her to go along with it.



My interpretation is that Kiku loved them both. Shin loved them both, and Yurei only loved Kiku, but when she was rejected by Kiku, she started a relationship with Shin.
So thats the point when Kiku "ruined" them both. I belive Shin always knew that Yurei only loved Kiku .
I feel kind of sad for the suicide, Shin really care about his family, even if his wife didn't trully loved him. The only thing that pissed me of is leaving Konatsu behind.
I think this anime shows us a really complex love triangle.

So I think Kiku embraced Yurei not only because he loved her (human desire he said), but because he felt guilty for everyhing.
 
Mar 26, 2016 7:41 AM

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lonelytree said:
Noo that ending :(

I wonder why in the present time Kiku never explained to Konatsu about how her parents actually died.


Actually even now he changed some things about how they died, cause he don't want to hurt her with some details. But we won't see the real version unless they make more anime.
 
Mar 26, 2016 8:29 AM

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Kiku has been very selfish and naive to think that they could all live together. Man ;-;

Sukeroku and Miyokichi died together. People might think that Miyokichi played with both of them, but she got played herself.
 
Mar 26, 2016 9:50 AM

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Sukeruko.... never seizes to amaze me...I actually heard that story before...Maybe in "folktales of Japan..
By why did he have to...
I don't want to blame her but Whyy she had to ruin everything
 
Mar 26, 2016 10:34 AM

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I don't know if it's accurate, but Yotaro probably reminded Kiku of Sukeroku and therefore he took him in. Also Konatsu seemed to grew fond of Yotaro.
 
Mar 26, 2016 11:49 AM
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what the actual fuck. of course miyo fucked shit up bye lmfao im done
 
Mar 26, 2016 2:38 PM
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I honestly think Miyokichi loved Sukeroku.

I think a major theme was dreams can change. Sukeroku always wanted to do great rakugo and Miyokichi loved Bon. Before the end, Sukeroku's words were enough to give Miyo some pause and she even called him "darling" which is a huge deal. When her life was in danger, she didn't call out Bon's name. Like Sukeroku changed his dream to giving Konatsu and Miyokichi a happy life, Miyokichi fell for Sukeroku.

I think this is further shown by the fact that she didn't want a life with Bon. Since Sukeroku still believed he loved rakugo more than her, Bon was her escape: the only man who had a meaningful relationship with her without sex.
 
Mar 26, 2016 2:53 PM
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This chapter has been magnificient. To be honest, I hoped a better final to the romance plot but it has been a great chapter.
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Mar 26, 2016 4:19 PM

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Goddamnit, best episode and best anime this year so far, Boku Machi is a joke against this gem.
I really digging the rakugo of Kiku and Sukeroku props for the animators and the voice actors for such an amazing performance.
Konatsu really is adorable where can I buy my own Konatsu ?
And of course the bitch of the year Yurie needs to ruin everything, her affection to Kiku is yandere level even trying to commit suicide with him.
The worst part was her talking about her not loving Sukeroku and her own daughter Konatsu damnit bitch, neither is to blame for your miserable existence.

So next week last episode plus OVA I assume, i already gonna miss this and we need more of this instead of stupid LN adaptions.
 
Mar 26, 2016 5:48 PM

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we were already expecting sukeroku's death but still made me so sad when i finally saw it =/
I still think miyokichi is that kind of person that only bring negative things to others. All of them (sukeroku, kiku and miyokichi) were selfish in some point, but see miyokichi using sukeroku just for her pleasure and leaving her daughter alone was very disgusting.
 
Mar 26, 2016 6:34 PM

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Miyu really loved Kiku, it was so sad when she goes to see him, they kissed, what made me think that Kiku really regret letting her go, and then she decided to kill herself with him, it was so sad, this anime is so beautiful, I had to hold the tears.
 
Mar 26, 2016 8:39 PM

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Smudy said:
Kiku has been very selfish and naive to think that they could all live together. Man ;-;
True that! When I heard that line, I was like "so pretentious and naive if he thinks that can actually happen with all that history." Kiku must be high or on something to think that would ever become a reality.

Such a tragic ending! I was on the edge of my seat even though I knew it was coming!
You can just be yourself. Do things your own way, one step at a time. You'll get there. Just be yourself, you'll be fine."
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Mar 26, 2016 9:59 PM

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I'm speechless right now...
 
Mar 26, 2016 10:05 PM

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AimeeKite said:
"It's your fault that our lives went off track!"

Kikuhiko just rejected Miyokichi because he simply had the right to, he didn't force her to get laid with Sukeroku. And nobody forced Sukeroku to play a knight in shining armor and follow her, trying desperately to fit the role of a perfect husband for which he most likely wasn't meant.

Geez, how I hate those characters (and those people) who blame others for their own decisions.


Kikuhiko was at fault for getting them out of his life. He was too selfish. I really liked the fact he recognized it.
 
Mar 26, 2016 10:45 PM

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Now we know why Konatsu thinks Kiku murdered her parents. Maybe Sukeroku got posthumous fame since he became really famous along with Kiku according to the first episode.

Hyped for the final episode, that was a really long flashback (11 episodes)
 
Mar 26, 2016 11:32 PM

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Yep that whole scene felt entirely fishy, but that didn't make it any less excruciating...Either way, I won't rest till we get to the bottom of this.

As brutal as that was, hearing/seeing Yota in the pv slapped a smile right back on my face.


 
Mar 26, 2016 11:37 PM

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It was too much for me. I didn't cry so hard from "Byousoku 5 centimeter" ending.
でぶ
 
Mar 27, 2016 1:23 AM

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Albi-kun said:
Kikuhiko was at fault for getting them out of his life. He was too selfish. I really liked the fact he recognized it.


Well, sorry, but in real life we don't tend to stay with the same people for the rest of our days. Sometimes we separate. Nobody owes you to stay in any touch with you just because you want it.
We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to.
 
Mar 27, 2016 2:11 AM

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damn Shin still got it i missed his rakugo damn the bitch is back and i hope she dies but not him
Modified by Axelucard, Mar 27, 2016 2:16 AM
 
Mar 27, 2016 2:50 AM

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man I kept screaming at the screen for Sukeroku to let Miyobitchchi fall to her death alone alas it was not so!
Modified by CtrlZED, Mar 27, 2016 2:54 AM
 
Mar 27, 2016 9:55 AM

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... that whore...
 
Mar 27, 2016 10:01 AM

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BRILLIANT! MASTERPIECE! A WORK OF ART! It was obvious it was going to end somehow like this and it was still phenomenal! Sukeroku's performance was like a clever antithesis of his life and his death. It was amazing. THIS EPISODE WAS AMAZING. 10/10
 
Mar 27, 2016 11:11 AM

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AimeeKite said:
Albi-kun said:
Kikuhiko was at fault for getting them out of his life. He was too selfish. I really liked the fact he recognized it.


Well, sorry, but in real life we don't tend to stay with the same people for the rest of our days. Sometimes we separate. Nobody owes you to stay in any touch with you just because you want it.


But it was against himself too. He sacrificed everything and everyone for his Rakugo. It's not like it just so happened they went separate ways. You can't generalize real life situations.
Modified by Albi-kun, Mar 27, 2016 11:14 AM
 
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