Diamond no Ace: Second Season Episode 50 Discussion

Rio_Pascua said:
When this game ends and only Furuya is remembered despite the efforts of the other two, it doesn't stop the bitterness.

Matty_Ice said:
I'm tired of hearing people complain about Furuya replacing Sawamura and how people think that Furuya might as well be the main character. Here's the thing, ever since the beginning of the show Furuya has always been the better pitcher because of his amazing fastball. Sawamura only had his natural moving fastball. So for me, the main point behind Ace of Diamond is Sawamura's struggles through Seido to learn and become a better player. Sawamura is the main character people. We watch as he grows and develops to become the true ace of the team. Along the way so far, he has improved his pitches learning multiple ones in fact, even more than Furuya. Sawmura has also gotten through the YIPPS, and he has honestly shown the most growth throughout the team.

Overall, people need to stop complaining about Furuya, some of you guys don't realize that Furuya's main point as a character is to be a rival character for Sawamura. Furuya's presence as a character is to push Sawamura so that he can become better and eventually become the true Ace of Seido. And in my opinion, Sawamura is really close to becoming the Ace, he has added so many aspects to his pitching that' he's become a fierce pitcher and has started to show consistent results throughout this tournament. However, coach Kataoka made the right choice in replacing Sawamura with Furuya. Furuya is a dynamic pitcher that has heavy fastballs that can just overpower opponents. Yes, Sawamura pitched great this game, but when the game is on the line you have to go with the Ace, especially when it was about to be Sawamura's third time through the Yakushi Lineup. In the end, people need to stop complaining, and have mutual respect for both Furuya and Sawamura.

TLDR; People need to stop bitching about Furuya and realize what the main point of Ace of Diamond is, which is to follow Sawamura's long treacherous path to becoming the Ace of Seido.

Rio_Pascua said:


I wish I can see it like that. I would love to feel that there is sense in all this suffering. Still, Sawamura should not be dependent on Furuya alone or Miyuki for that matter in order to become the true ace. I'm sure if you're reading part 2 , you'll know Eijun has become more independent without the need to constantly compete with Furuya. The point of this switching is to make the audience feel bitter, that no matter how hard you work there are somethings that are set in stone already. Honestly, what this manga tells is how hard for the status quo to be broken, in this case to snatch the ace number.

As for the reactions of the people, of course these are justified. Furuya is supposedly injured, Eijun did well, mind you there was no doubt in his performance besides Kataoka's thinking that Eijun might mess it up (because that's what it tells us)...and Furuya pitch in the bottom of the lineup. I'm sure that if Furuya is pitching well, he'll never be switched simply because he's the "Ace".The issue here is trust. Of course, I know this series will be a long one and Eijun's struggles are still a great pile but what we're questioning is the decision for the switch. "You're the ace so go finish it", is what Kataoka gave as an explanation. Both Eijun and Furuya asked to pitch and Eijun got sacked. This is where there's something wrong. And there will be differing opinions. But if we're talking about impact and a great finale for a story, it's not just right to end it with Furuya no Ace.

Matty_Ice said:


I highly disagree with your interpretation of Kataoka's reasoning for switching Furuya in. It's not just because "Furuya's the Ace" there's a perfectly logical explanation as well. Look at it like this: You have two options to close out the bottom of the 9th. You have a pitcher who is pitching great through the second half of the game (Sawamura), but he's about to pitch to the same batters for the third time now. Yakushi has a very strong batting lineup no doubt, so there's a strong chance that the batters are starting to get used to Sawamura's pitches.

Or you have a pitcher who is injured, but has been allowed to pitch only one inning (Furuya). He has been preparing ever since Sawamura got switched in for Kawakami, and he has been intimidating Yakushi with his pitches even though he's been in the bullpen. If you choose to switch Furuya in, you're sending in a fresh pitcher and a whole new pitching dynamic to Yakushi. Throughout the game, Yakushi's batters have only been batting against slower pitching players in Kawakami and Sawmaura (I know Sawamura's pitches are fast compared to Kawakami, but Furuya's are on a whole new level). Switching in Furuya, gives the other team pressure because they have to try and get used to Furuya's fastballs with only 3 outs to work with. Which can cause stress and panic for Yakushi. Clearly, Furuya is the better option, because it puts on tons of pressure for Yakushi to try and adapt to a completely different pitcher in Furuya.

This is why I love Ace of Diamond so much, it's a much more team based sports anime. You don't just have the main character playing all the time and making all of the plays. Ace of Diamond takes a methodical approach and weighs its options as for what's better for the team, yet still maintaining a good balance with how they handle Sawamura's main character development. In the end, Sawamura did his part for the game, and now it's up to Furuya to try finish the game, and give Seido the team victory to go to Nationals.

Rio_Pascua said:


Well, I get your point. I did mention that I understand the reasoning behind Furuya being switched in. Still, if you know their history, you'll still think otherwise. Furuya is a slow starter pitcher and has a high percentage of being scored runs. This is a fact and his ERA proves it. Eijun has been an experienced closer and you'll know that he still has another pitch to throw which he only pitched to Raichi once. The next batters are the bottom of the lineup. Saying that Eijun is about to faced the batters 3rd time in a row will make him prone to hits isn't so strong if you factor in the likes of Mei and Sanada. Those people are used to pitching nine innings. And please, don't overrate Yakushi's batters' bottom lineup.

Now, let's get to this. Furuya is supposedly injured and Eijun is at his best. Furuya is preparing since the beginning and Eijun has been getting used to pitching and stable, his pitch count is very safe. Then, Kataoka was thinking about who he TRUSTS more to finish the game. Of course, there are uncertainties. What if Eijun fails, right? But does Kataoka has a plan IF Furuya couldn't deliver? See, it's all about trust. The more logical reasoning is that you let a player who's doing good instead of someone who's injured because you try to minimize the risk. Yes, Furuya was the better choice if you were aiming for a surprise factor but did Kataoka took any chance to explain his supposed decision? He just said he's the ace, and Eijun made a face.

Now, I love Ace more than any other sports anime and this series has stayed realistic so far but this decision doesn't sit well with me. It's as if the author just made this development to make Eijun and the audience suffer. Yes, it's team based and it's better that way. But knowing the history of both characters, there's a much deeper reason as to why Eijun and Furuya verbally requested to play. I'm sorry but what this series has successfully conveyed to the audience is that Furuya is the favored pitcher.

Matty_Ice said:



And that is what i see here "It doesnt sit well with me". That is the key point you are making, delivering arguments but in the end always coming down to "me". Meaning "I would prefer this istead of that even thou this is more logical than that".
I've followed the argument from you two and i have to agree with Matty.
The thing is this, Furuya may be injured, but he is injured in the level IF he goes for two innings instead of one. Now here, he is just going for one inning. Which means he is still fresh and Sawamura isnt since he has been playing for some innings.
Now, he may very well be at the pick of his level now and therefore still wants to play and finish Yakushi off, which is understandable since he wants to improve as well AND Kataoka nows that very well. Kataoka isnt any idiot, he knows very well how his players feel and think, as coaches go in anime, personally i respect Kataoka the most. But Sawamura is not 100% anymore and Sawamura knows that as well, of course he ignores it since he wants to play. Now, Furuya was just warming up until now and was not playing and playing itself costs way more stamina and nerves. Therefore Furuya is still fresh and since Yakushi knows how fearsome Furuya can be, it was only logical to consider Furuya to finish instead of Sawamura.
Yeah, Sawamura was turned down by Kataoka, but he seemed to acknowledge the decission of Kataoka and he himself may be a little selfish.
When Furuya finishes, doesnt mean he is getting all the glory. By that logic, how many times would Kawakami get all the glory for how he often finishes the games?
Then, if Kataoka has 3 Pitchers but only used 2 until now and the third one can still play (for a single inning at full power but still), so why not use the last pitcher? He did the same with Kawakami often, but i dont see you complain about it. Its just because it is the final of the tournament and season 2 and therefore you want to see your favourite character finish everything off?

Rio_Pascua said:

And I guess you only see that last statement, huh? Disregarding all arguments simply because it's an opinion. Huh.

MahadoKusanagi said:


I red your whole post BUT i am only gonna reply to this bit. And the reason is simple. I dont know why you are seemingly taking my post offensively but in a discussion i dont appreciate at all when somebody assumes crap just because whatever. Like assuming that i only saw the last statement when i CLEARLY stated that i've been following your discussion with Matty.
And then immediately writting that i disregard all arguments because its an opinion EVEN THOU i clearly stated that you bring you arguments but in the end still go to the "me" argument. This even thou you wrote "i wish i can see it like that" refering to Matty's arguments for Furuya instead of Sawamura.
The difference here is, as i see it, simple. You and Matty bring the arguments to the table as well as me, but i didnt go the route of "me". Its an opinion? Maybe as well be. But the difference is the actual logic. I never wrote that you dont use it, i am simply not agreeing with it WITHOUT using the "me" argument (yes, i prefer Furuya over Sawamura any day, but in this case i stayed neutral all the time which you didnt by using the "me" argument), since the "me" argument just makes everything worse and almost invalid when logic has the most weight.
You can say that i am wrong or whatever, if you bring logical arguments with it, then i acknowledge that i am wrong if i see that i am wrong. But assuming crap that i meant/wrote/whatever even thou i clearly didnt?
It shows you dont take the discussion seriously (at least with me) and therefore i am not wasting more time with it. Have fun.

MitsukiAkashi said:
miyuki-senpai, don't scare us like that again. you have a tact of giving us heart attacks, you usual crazy bastard. good work to zono. he stood his grounds that led the team to score despite his tenseness. keep fighting on, seido! don't worry eijun, you still have your chances in the near future, no matter how many bitterness and frustrations and other challenges throw your way. i'll keep believing in you.

to the three who are arguing here, please take it somewhere else like a different discussion topic forum. it's literally escalating and not meant to be here. this is an EPISODE discussion topic forum not an argument topic forum for eff sake. if you're not going to talk about the other aspects of episode 50, then please leave this topic discussion and leave your arguments elsewhere. please and thank you.

Matty_Ice said:


LOL, the argument is not even escalating. It stopped before you even posted your comment. I think it's friendly banter that offered valid points for both sides. And if you're going to talk about us not talking about other aspects of the episode, then you might as well tell that to over half the people in this discussion thread as well. Our discussion of the pitching change is literally no different then a lot of people only talking about the "aspect" of Sawamura getting switched and being shafted as the main character. And how the anime always turns into "Furuya no Ace". Besides we're definitely still talking about the episode, especially with what we were talking about seemed to be what everyone else was talking about with the pitching change at the end of the episode. GG

ibear said:
For the argument of Furuya coming in

MitsukiAkashi said:
but out of everyone here on this thread, the three of you were pretty heated about the whole furuya/eijun thing and it nearly got out of hand. you were at each other's throats. we can't control how the canon story goes, but that's why we have fanfics. i, myself, is not a big fan of furuya, but even i can respect his slow growth and development as a character and as a baseball player with the rest of the seido guys and guys of the other teams.

Dragon_Slayer_X said:
The problem isn't Furuya though.......it's the continuous Furuya worship and continuous unfairness towards Sawamura.

Even looking at previous games, Furuya bowls first, gives some runs and run out of steam (lol losing motivation because of rain). After that Sawamura and Kawakami has to come in at serious situations and CLEAN UP his mess. Is there any match where Furuya closed a game or played in a serious situation? I don't really remember......Sawamura came in at some very dangerous situations and saved the team.

This time they both did well, especially Sawamura who was in top condition and had high morale but the shitty audience and Coach just denied all of that and everyone is going to crazy because Furuya destroys the bottom order after they . It's literally just saying to his face that he isn't trusted enough to finish the game and he is just an hanger-on for Furuya even after appealing like that and showing an spectacular performance. It's how these events play out that makes the readers/audience pissed off time and again.

The most economical and pinch-situation-adapted player in a highly motivated state aka Sawamura is more reliable to close the game than the injured ace(?) (btw that happened because of him being selfish) who has no experience in closing and rarely plays in pinch situations.

Dragon_Slayer_X said:


....................did Kawakami looked like the hero anywhere the times he finished a game? If not, then how can anybody say that Sawamura is a hanger-on for Furuya?
By that logic, Furuya and Sawamura would be hanger-ons for Kawakami on other games. It is not really a matter of trust, if Kataoka didnt trust Sawamura at all, he wouldnt even be able to play. Basically, Kataoka would be more like Ochiai. Now Ochiai didnt trust Sawamura at all........and maybe even now he doesnt.........well, maybe a little. But he isnt Ochiai at all.
Using Furuya now instead of Sawamura doesnt mean "Hey, i trust Furuya more, which is injured, than Sawamura" or "I want to piss everybody off just because and therefore is Sawamura out", doesnt mean that he trusts Furuya more than Sawamura. He trusts Kawakami the same way he trusts Furuya and Sawamura but on the same level he knows what they can do and can not do.
Using Furuya now is a matter of trying to overpower the enemy now when Seido has the lead and wants to finish it off. Sawamura already played and therefore Yakushi knows what to expect from him. Yeah, Sawamura is highly motivated to finish the game by himself, but Yakushi is already prepared for what he throws. Yeah, he may have more variety than Furuya, but Sawamura already used his variety against Yakushi. And he does have the power of Furuya.
Now, Furuya, yeah he is injured, but he still can play for 1 inning at full power. Sawamura already played, even if he doesnt want to admit, he cant use his full power anymore since he doesnt have the beans from Dragon Ball.
Furuya can now overthrow and destroy Yakushi with something that they dont really expect. Yeah, Yakushi counted Furuya as an enemy throughout the game, but not now. And with his power, he can overthrow Yakushi, a team that will need time first to adapt to Furuya even with Sanada and Raichi as power-batters. And when the time runs out, the game will be over.
And besides, Furuya is motivated the same way Sawamura is, his Saiyajin-God-Mode shows it every time. Besides, Furuya himself knows that he only has 1 inning. He knew that before the game. But as you probably saw, even he was surprised when Kataoka switched him in. Kataoka saw how Furuya warmed up and probably even saw his blueish God-Mode (since its hard to overlook) and decided that he is the right man for the job. There is the more reason for Furuya to give it his all.
If Kawakami hadnt played until now, then Kataoka may have used him to finish Yakushi off. And yeah, because he has the experience as a finisher more than Furuya. Furuya messed up in the past, yeah, so did Sawamura. Sawamura was able to save the team in occasions? So did Furuya. Did Furuya messed more up than Sawamura until now? I wouldnt say so. But is he more selfish? A bit, yeah.
Bringing the argument "He is an Ace". Yeah, he is the Ace, so? He did deserve that after all in season 1. And besides, look at Tanba and how he did.

This is not a matter of "I prefer Furuya over Sawamura, so therefore i want to see Furuya". Its a matter of the more rational decissions. Ochiai wouldnt probably use Sawamura that long, THEN you could say that Furuya is preferable, since he himself doesnt trust Sawamura all that much and wants to see the Ace getting experience even if it means not coming very far in the tournament.

Besides, personally i dont really even see Sawamura as the "main character". No, i dont even see Furuya as an MC. But i see Seido as the MC in Diamond no Ace. And there is a difference.

MahadoKusanagi said:


Here you go again. Stop painting the issue as if there is only one logical reasoning to this. This was a valid argument, just as you argue yours. There IS a VIABLE REASON behind the switching yes but THERE IS ALSO A VALID POINT ON WHY THE SWITCHING SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. It's all about facts, historical data and characters/audience's PERSPECTIVE.

Yes, Diamond no Ace is about Seido but it's also about the pitchers..and ultimately Eijun. In case you missed the marketing of this anime and the manga, the series is dubbed as Eijun's journey or legend. WHICH SHOWS IN THE COVERS, OPENINGS AND OTHER MARKETING MATERIALS.
Really, you should hold on to your horses before making an argument.

Wintovisky said:
Mad at Dia no Ace? Well, I see some of you didn't watch Haikyuu!! yet... Honestly, I have no idea what you are waiting for rofl. Seriously, go watch it NOW, my fellow sports anime friends.

ShiiroChan said:


I watched it too and still DnA is the best by far. :)

LittleStar said:


For me Haikyuu is better :D
Even if story/arc focused on another/supporting character
I never get bored and I end up liking this character.
Really Haikyuu characters are very likeable :D
Compared to DnA there is already few characters I can't stand... -.-

MeinKaiser said:
as always Furuya will take away all the glory from kawakami and eijun...

hayka said:


I know how you feel bro. Eijun is supposed to be the main protagonist but they royally screw him over on numerous occasions and place alot of focus on other player that at one point I had to really wonder who the star of the show was.

Well its nice to see how he developed from the first episode in season 1 till now even thou he's fighting a losing battle.

Shuhan said:
Of course they gonna end it with fucking Furuya, tired of seeing him.