Do you Agree or Disagree with 7 being a good average?
| Think of ratings like this, if you cannot enjoy watching what you'd consider to be a 5/10, then it's not average, it's bad. Overall anime is good so you need to keep that in mind when rating. The base line for what's acceptable/ watchable is a 5. It's not a smart idea to give multiple shows a 7/10 just because you managed to watch it without feeling bored or you liked some of the ideas but they weren't done right, it's a 5. Readjust your scale to mentally have 5 as "Good if" you are leaning to high. There is no need to be generous in scoring media. You won't hurt it's feelings. |
  Rarity is Best Pony! |
hoopla123 said: My argument was that the definition of "good scores" and "shitty scores" differs a lot among people. If an anime only gets rated with "good scores" by 200 people who all believe a 7 is a good score then it's not going to have too high of a rating. Obviously enough low member count doesn't always mean a low rating, especially with the sequel boost, but generally people with bigger lists watch more obscure anime and have lower means.zombie_pegasus said: Since the user average is higher than the anime average it means the average user is giving ratings higher than the average anime, in fact they may avoid anime lower than the average deliberately. If people with higher mean scores are avoiding lower rated anime and less popular anime then it means those anime are mostly being scored by people with lower mean scores, which is part of the reason why they have lower ratings. Another reason is that some anime simply are shit and if they're only been seen by a few people anyway those people won't recommend them to other people so their obscurity and low scores remain. The top 100 for score and popularity have a fair bit of overlap. There are plenty of examples where low views have higher scores than ones with higher views. Take this for example: http://myanimelist.net/anime/10937/Mobile_Suit_Gundam__The_Origin ^ 2.2k ratings with 8.3/10 average score. compared to this http://myanimelist.net/anime/9330/Dragon_Crisis ^ 48.4k ratings with 6.9/10 average score. People will rate good shows with good scores and shitty ones with shitty scores. Regardless of whether or not a shitty show is abundantly viewed or not. |
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| Anime is fucking good okay, deal with it. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I agree that 7 is perfectly normal for an average score. I mean average and good can coexist. maybe all the anime one has seen are simply good for them thus they rate a lot of them a 7. 7 becomes the average as well. Rating doesn't matter much anyways |
| Pretty sure 5 is meant to be average on MAL since it says that on the rating though everyone here is used to grade school where if you score below a 70 (C average) then you are doing below average but 7 clearly is stated as a good anime and good is well above average. 5 being the average it would not be uncommon to find 4,3,2 in most lists because there are a lot of anime that are complete wastes of time. Though, MAL seems to think 7 is average, 6 is bad, 5 is horrible and everything below that is god-awful and they also seem to rate on "Mindless Enjoyment Factor" which can skew lists as well or they could just rate a series high even if it was bad or low even if it was good. So, I usually tend not to trust the ratings on this site I gravitate more towards the reviews as those at least give the viewers thoughts on the series rather than an ambiguous number. |
| "Few, but ripe." - C.F. Gauss |
| Your only reason for saying 5 is bad is because audiences would rather go by 7. That they couldn't understand what is high and low going by 5. This is simply untrue and a disingenuous way of saying 7 is better because audiences are already going by that. Ppl can easily change which number they consider average and your suggesting they can't. Outside of that you didn't really list a good reason it should be 7. An average of 5 allows for 5 variances of good and 4 of bad while you want 6 bad and 3 good variances. |
DementedkaliberMay 11, 2016 1:08 PM
| 5 is the average. I mean it does say average there right? You people are too damn soft. |
| It's certainly true that there's a huge influence due to school's grading system which make you believe 7 is average.. but I find the actual rating system, with 5 as average, kinda flawed anyway. First of all there's some misunderstanding about the meaning of "average"... some say an average anime is something with just as many good points as bad points (and I can accept it becasue in this way "average" refers to the quality of the anime just as "good" or "fine" or "bad") whereas others give to word "average" a more statistical definition as the mean score of all the anime alltogether. And I have some problems with the latter definition because it doesn't refer to the quality of the anime anymore. Furthermore some mingle the two definition so "average" becomes the median, the 50° percentile which divides the better half of anime form the worse half. But this definition, and stating that the mean score should be naturally 5 (or 5.5) can only work if you assume that the quality of anime follows a normal (or gaussian) distribuiton, where the mean is almost the same as the median. What if it's not true? What if the distribution of anime, qualitywise, is more like this? http://www2.units.it/biologia/software/Image49.gif If we had that most of anime are good (7) or very good (8, few are bad (5) and some are terrible (1) we could have a mean lower than the median.Or vice versa. Al last I think it's normal that the mean score of MAL's users is mostly higher than the average anime's value because most people tend to stick on their favourite genre and watch anime they'll likely enjoy whereas drop or don't even start anime they likely wouldn't like.. that are the ones they would give very low ratings. |
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| I feel like 6 is the real average score. 5 is "flawed but barely watchable". 7 and above are different degrees of good and enjoyable. Most people enjoy what they watch, hence the high ratings. 4 and bellow are just different degrees of bad and should have been dropped. |
| When I was going through schooling, anything with a grade worse then 80 percent was failing. Make of that what you will. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
| I may not give below a 4, but to me 7 still means good and 5 average. |
| Can more than 50% of anime be better than average? And... Can more than 50% of the anime YOU watched be better than average? Skewed distributions and statistics confuse me so idk. If anime gets objectively reviewed based on things like sound, story, animation, art quality, overall enjoyment and whatever else, then don't you think that maybe the average studio can produce anime that scores over 50% more often than below? I think so. Which I guess means that (imo) more than 50% of anime can be better than average? 7/10 is the average of an acceptable anime, and 3/10 is the average shit anime. Studios just produce more acceptable anime than garbage anime. Just an afterthought: I don't think "average" can be forced into the value of "5", when the definition of average is literally the sum of all scores divided by the number of scores. It's a statistic that is always changing. Also, if you can't rate things 0/10 then the average would really be 5.5 on a scale of 10. But my conflicting afterthoughts just shows that I really dunno what the fuck im talking about lol. |
Daren_Oct 1, 2016 4:51 PM
| 5.5 is the mathematical average score on a 1-10 scale. I dislike applying a school grading system to it since that system operates where there's a significant score inflation. But that's just me; you can rate whatever you want and I don't see the point in arguing |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
| It's usually overall okay to good, depend of that case. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| My answer: "No, but I agree with your reasons" First hand, I can tell you that I struggle to keep my average at / around 5. The reason for this is that, as of today, I haven't watched nearly as many anime series as most of the users on this site (only 22 completed, give or take a few). But what type of anime do I seek out? The ones that receive high ratings, the ones that my friends boast about. THOSE are the ones I should give priority to, as my time is limited, as I am far less likely to encounter an "average or below average" anime. But also, as a culture, we have made a push to see "average" as "bad". Think about Yelp. Is a business rated 3-stars considered "average" (as in, you should have no / very few complaints), or is it considered undesirable? Is a student who gets a C (70 - 79 here in the US) considered average or bad? I've spoken with professors who talk about their struggle with giving students grades below a C. Therefore, C has become the lowerhand of grades, and not the most common. I see complications with this, most notably, the narrowing of our scale. If your mean rating is 7, and you rate an anime with 7, as far as the creator is concerned, the anime you just rated was only "average", despite how passionate you are about it. You've also pushed down every anime with a rating below that to the point of being "bad". It also forces "fair raters" (who keep 5 or 6 as a mean) into a corner, where they feel like they're undermining an anime they like, by lowering its overall average in the community. Let's say you are a fair rater, and you see an anime that you think is underrated (but not spectacular) in the community, that's received an overall 6.8 rating. You think it should be worth a 6 in rating, but you're actually pulling down the community's score since you're not on the same boat as everyone else. Anyway.....it's interesting, I'd love to participate in a study that aims to better understand the human psychology of having an average rating of "7" across platforms. |
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| Yes. I absolutely, one hundred percent agree, yes. It's fitting for MAL. |
| I have seen some average and below average stuff but most stuff I watch is enjoyable enough and well made enough that I usally end up giving it a 7 because I found more good than bad about the show. As long as a show is 5 and up I will give it a chance but I usually try to watch stuff people consider really good first and I usally end up liking more than I dislike from those shows. |
| I use the rating scale pretty much as it was intended. Which explains why my mean anime score is 6.19 8, 9, & 10 are "very good", "great", and "masterpiece" respectively. Fairly self explanatory. I enjoyed them more than most things I've seen. These have a high re-watch value. 7 is "good". If I enjoyed it then I'll go ahead and rate it a 7. 6 is "fine". I enjoyed some parts but there were things I didn't like. 5 is "average". I think a better term to use would be mediocre. Nothing particularly enjoyable about it but it wasn't necessarily bad. 4 is "bad". Again, self explanatory. I didn't like it at all. Anything rated below a 3 is god awful. And I base my enjoyment mostly on the story and the characters. The art, animation, and even the sound usually don't factor in too much. |
TFO1013Apr 17, 2017 3:17 PM
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| The rating system I use is "great", "good", "mediocre", "shit". |
| I kinda use my "gut" feeling. I prefer not to think so much about it, but if I'm not bored watching it, I feel it's average. I've kinda been using 7 as average before, and then I've tried to convert to using what MAL suggest the numbers mean, so I think all my ratings are incosistent of eachother. Rating shows can be hard. |
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Avgerinos said: If your memory and knowledge of anime resets after watching each one, then you are completely ignorant of anime. It would be like you trying to argue that the only people fit to judge anime are people who have just been born, because they are not influenced by anything else. Presumably, you think that people have to be fanatical and rate things very high when they stand by themselves, such that there are no mediocre shows ever. But no part of your argument does it ever address why it has to be 7. Why not 8? 9? 10? 6? 5? When people don't often rate under five, I feel as though this is a proper reflection of both a subjective and an object review, this is because we are rating based on what we experienced. The voices, the art, the sound, the story, and all the other aspects we take into consideration are properly reflected when giving a 5 or higher rating. When giving a very low score to an anime it is purely comparative to the other anime one has watched rather than an evaluation based on each individual factor. If you don't compare, then your opinion is useless. A person who has seen 1 anime ever giving a 10 gives absolutely no information. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| For me... Anything under 7 = bad. 1-6 = A scale of how much disdain I have for the series. |
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Avgerinos said: These are viewer ratings, meaning they are out of the pool of aired shows. Shows that never made it cannot be watched and rated.katsucats said: As I said in the statement you quoted. When someone rates a show less than 5 usually it is based purely on comparative means. It is very unlikely that a show that has such poor qualities would ever make it to air. It happens sometimes, though those are outliers. If your memory and knowledge of anime resets after watching each one, then you are completely ignorant of anime. It would be like you trying to argue that the only people fit to judge anime are people who have just been born, because they are not influenced by anything else. Presumably, you think that people have to be fanatical and rate things very high when they stand by themselves, such that there are no mediocre shows ever. But no part of your argument does it ever address why it has to be 7. Why not 8? 9? 10? 6? 5? If you don't compare, then your opinion is useless. A person who has seen 1 anime ever giving a 10 gives absolutely no information. Avgerinos said: Standards are viewer-subjective, not objective, and once the average standards (i.e. 5.5) are established, other shows can be rated comparatively. If you include the pool of shows that were never produced:I also didn't reject the use of comparison based rating, I stated that it shouldn't be purely comparative. Even if you have only watched the best shows and have no bounds as to what a typical anime is like then your ratings will be all over the place. It also means that for every new show that is watched the entire list would need to be updated to adjust for each new show. This is where objectivity comes in. After watching a few different anime, one can realise the standards for animation, sound, etc.This helps balance the list as well as make it comprehensable for others. 1. The viewer can never know what the cut off point for produced shows out of all potential projects are because the viewer has never seen shows that were not produced. 2. You've essentially set an arbitrary floor that you or some arbitrary authority determine of all produced shows, and eliminate the rest of the 10 scale. In other words, you've reduced the resolution of your ratings and made them less useful. Avgerinos said: Stop abusing the 10 scale.Since MAL takes ratings from everyone to display to the public it is the users responsibility to give an accurate representation of the show. Sadly people don't do that. After a year of using this site I realised that rating shows was starting to tarnish my recollective experience as well as sometimes my viewing experience. So I stopped rating anime and now just use MAL as a record of my conquests. I still stand by my point of 7 being an average anime because companies will more often distribute an fairly good anime. And those that are below a 7 are likely to not be watched. Avgerinos said: You are using "objective" in an inconsistent way. It is impossible for a person to rate objectively ever.TLDR; For the sake of MAL, a 7 should be the most common score, since people should be both subjective and onjective in their evaluations. Avgerinos said: Subjectivity reflects the qualities of the show that matter, which is how well the narrative structure (plot, characters, art, sound) connects with the viewer. The viewer rates based on his own experiences, and not the experience of some unnamed executive producer whose perfect judgment puts every show under a 5 on the chopping blocks, and convinces the market to consume every show over a 5. Since the viewer rates on his own experiences, the standard is set by the viewer.It is irresponsible to rate purely on a subjective view as it often doesn't reflect the quality of the show. All ratings are done comparatively, you are correct in that regard. The implied use of comparative in my statement prior was a subjective comparison on a limited sample. Avgerinos said: I have no idea, but considering the quality of threads on MAL, I'm not surprised.This thread was made last year so i am a little confused why it is returning. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
Avgerinos said: I think all works have much more in common than not, even across disparate genres. It is the narrative structure that engages the viewer, and such a thing exists in all genres except the avant garde (e.g. French new wave) that deliberately shirks off a structure, but even then the viewer will, in his mind, form the connection to create his own structure. To put it plainly, it's how the story is told rather than what the story is that's fascinating, and good stories attract people in a common way.It is also strange that it compares an entire medium. How do you compare a romance to a horror? Purely on instinct? On things they have in common? Avgerinos said: That is fine. That's why we each compose our own list rather than relying on some objective authority of quality (impossible). An anime list should be taken relatively (relative to other anime on the list, relative to the viewer) in order to derive meaning from it. Ideally, the viewer should be articulate enough to defend his own opinions, but if we find that a viewer is erratic in his ratings, we can choose to ignore his opinion, as it provides no value to us.But the problem with that is that a persons interaction with an anime is heavily based on their life and has little to do with the anime itself. Anything can affect the rating of a show, how long it took them to watch it, how loud it was outside while they watched it, whether they were hungry during an episode, there are too many factors outside the show to rate the show with. The MAL aggregate can statistically iron out these factors as well. While averaging loses resolution, it's also telling in another way. A viewer may watch an anime too loud, but it is unlikely that all viewers did so. Avgerinos said: A third party cannot know what a viewer means when he gives an anime, for instance, a 6, but when he rates some other anime 6.3, it serves as a basis for comparison. The meaning, therefore, is that the numbers are not mapped to an absolute scale (since one is impossible to know by anyone else), but is relative to reference points (that both the viewer and the third party has watched). The more data points, the higher the range of ratings assigned, the more resolution or clarity we gain into the psychology of the viewer. It is fine to me that a rating changes even if the viewer's opinion doesn't. I'll assume that as the viewer watches more anime, the boundaries of his scale become more defined, and it becomes easier to map his scale to mine.So what meaning does it hold if their opinion of a show does not change but the rating does? |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I personally do this. 7 for me has always been average for some strange reason. I suppose the grading system thing can be a good theory, i mean, so much time in school and university that the grading system might just become subconscious for people. Anything ranked 5 and lower is for me unwatchable and would not dare to watch. I like to rank based on recommendation worthyness, goes something like. 10-Has the "It" factor. Would recommend to anybody. 9-same as 10 but doesn't have the "it" factor that makes it a classic anime. 8-recommendation worthy, good anime overall. 7- average, its just there, another anime that will most likely be forgotten. Wouldn't really recommend. 6- Wouldn't recommend. Has many flaws, Probably had to power myself through the series to end it. 5- Complete shit, didn't finish. I would criticize it and put it down any chance i get. anything below 5 is garbage. But yeah, I use 7 as average all the time. If an anime was average of 7 then i know its skippable. |
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EcchiGodMamsterP said: i can't help but look at it the same we teachers grade school work 10 perfect 9 great 8 really good 7 good 6 meh 5 and below = wtf? That's how I look at the ratints, too. If I genuinly don't like a series (lower than 5), I drop it and I don't rate dropped shows, so I guess that and the fact that I see ratings in the same way as you do is why my mean score is high. I also find it really hard to give an anime a very low rating because I always consider the amount of time and effort the creators put into it and can't find it in me to rate their work a 3/10. In that case, I often opt to not rate the show at all. I also don't rate OVA's or movies of anime series, but my mean score would probably drop quite a lot if I did. And lastly, I simply do find a lot of animes good. Just good. Good enough to watch. Good enough to enjoy it while watching. I rate based on how much I enjoyed it as a whole and not in the 'story, characters, animation, sound, enjoyment' kind of way. So yeah, my mean score is high and I'm totally okay with that. I'm not a mean person, anyway ;) |
 I would have to generally disagree with the OP. I understand what's being said, but I think it's making too many presumptions on everyone using the American standard. Now I agree that a 7 tends to be the average score on most people's MAL lists (mine included), but I don't think that's because we view 7 as meaning average. Rather I find it's because we already have our own quality filters in place. Most people don't just pick anime blindly out of a hat, they go off their friends suggestions, trusted critic suggestions, they look over the anime description and compare to what they generally tend to like. All of these are methods that remove a good quantity of the shittier anime from the list before the user has even watched it, so by the point they are actually starting an anime they have already narrowed it down to the better options available, resulting in the average rating being above a 5. And this is also something I've found to happen through personal experience. Back when I was especially picking with anime's, and only watched a select few suggested to me by friends who already knew my interests my average rating was actually an 8, because most of the animes I encountered were well suited for me and what I was looking for. However, as I began to branch out and explore animes myself I found some gems I never would of found myself. But I also found a number of animes that were rather sub-par, and that I could live without. So overtime as I've branched out more into anime on my own (applying less filters) my average rating as decreased towards a 7. And if I were to start using a random generator to pick an anime completely by random, than I would imagine my average rating to decrease even more so. |
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| I found that people that have a mean score of 7 and lower to generally have completed watching many anime. It's only normal to rate it lower because other anime surely can't beat your masterpiece favorite list. Only one person that I found to rate it 10/10 every time and it's also a good way to attract more people to try it. |
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