Do you Agree or Disagree with 7 being a good average?
Avgerinos said: exactly, there is no problem you have whatever mean score. you should just realize that mal is using 10 scale and you should also use that. only that is important.Kuma said: that's why i explain you just need to what you consider average(in bad way) and put it as standard of 5 score and everything can following. i don't said 5 must be absolute average. which mean your average mean score become also 5. that's is also why i menationed that your average score doesnt matter. but 5 supposed to be average in your rating system. This has problems when considering people who only watch high quality anime. An anime that may be rated very high would be drastically lowered which in the end it wouldn't work as a universal rating system. But for people who watch all kinds of anime it would work, and it is a good way of sorting lists. It also means tha average is based on each person's individual definition of average. (I might be misinterpreting you) but still if you have too high mean score (more than 8.5), i would consider you don't take your ratings seriously and having too low score (lower than 5), that's mean you not even capable know your own taste and still watching something that you obviously will dislike, or you are just simply masochist or try hard to be critics. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
zombie_pegasus said: KorNk said: Dude, it's not how it works. Even if one can say that if a single person watch all anime and rate them accordingly, it would follow a normal distribution with the mean of 5 (average anime), because some of them would be good, so would be bad, but most of them would be indeed average for him. However, people don't tend to watch what they don't like. and they don't watch all anime... I'm rarely dissapointed in an anime I chose to watch, so most of my ratings would indeed be around 7 (good), and it's the same for everyone. Sure, when you've already watched about 500-1000 anime the situation is different and the mean would move to 6.5-6, but 5 is just ridiculous... Technically my mean is 4.7 (my mean for full TV series is 6.3, but that's not even a category MAL tracks). With all things considered I think my mean is completely understandable. A mean of 6.3 is perfectly normal, so raising my average back up wouldn't give me enough ratings for TV series as most of my scale would be dedicated to shorts. Well I may have been a bit off with 500-1000 anime, but you literally fit into 6-6.5 category :3 Kuma said: that's why i explain you just need to what you consider average(in bad way) and put it as standard of 5 score and everything can following. i don't said 5 must be absolute average. which mean your average mean score become also 5. that's is also why i menationed that your average score doesnt matter. but 5 supposed to be average in your rating system. You probably didn't read that you'll end up around 5 eventually even if you base you rating at 7 in the beginning. And the most important thing: One shouldn't take ratings seriously |
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Avgerinos said: I feel like this is a big problem in a community based rsting system. Also in this discussion since we all have different definitions. Some state that average is the show that is neither good nor bad. Others say it is the middle point between all of your anime. Well, fight the vagueness with quantity, and anyway there's hearsay, reviews and summaries to give you the idea. But I agree that the rating system is flawed, and that people should be more aware of things below 7. Also - there's no contradiction in your words. Forst you say "show", then you mention the average mark, and these are two different things. But I also think that the word "average" is useless when we talk about one show, and MAL's 5 is not "average", it's "mediocre". Personally I believe it's akin to "time spent in vain", since art or entertainment must bring in something new. |
| As one with average of 9, I think it's totally fine. The problems will start if your mean score is 4 or less. It means you don't love anything you see. That's a problem. |
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Wensbane said: I only watch things that entice me, hence there's a higher probably that I'll like them. That's what I've been saying. Wensbane said: It's possible to end up with a mean lower than 5.5. Especially if you've watched hundreds or even thousands of anime. It's also possible if you pick your anime almost randomly or simply like to "explore the genres." It is, but I think it is rather atypical. Wensbane said: Now, 5.8 is definitely at the higher end of what I consider acceptable. Hm, that's personal preference, so I can't say anything, but if we talk about MAL, things below 5 have disambiguations that mean various degrees of bad. "Below average" also means bad conventionally. But again, I watch anime for enjoyment, so if it is present, I feel good about it. I wouldn't rate 5 something that I did like. Standard genre piece won't be something that I like, conversely. Things could've been different if I had rated things that I tried, but dropped, but I avoid it, if they were out of my sphere of interest and I picked them for experiment. I think rating them is dishonest. |
deadoptimistMar 9, 2016 1:12 PM
KorNk said: i don't said "hurr durr my sistem is the best". what i mean don't take seriously is not thinking about your rating at all. like it than give it 10. there is different between pure ignorance, don't take him slef too seriously and too serious about ratings.You probably didn't read that you'll end up around 5 eventually even if you base you rating at 7 in the beginning. And the most important thing: One shouldn't take ratings seriously |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| If you are talking about people's overall mean score being 7ish that's fine yes. It is natural for peoples lists to be "top heavy" since most people know how to pick out titles they think they will like and don't usually finish things they don't like. Thus the mean score would be above a 5 because the majority of stuff people complete is going to be in the 6-10 range. If you think a show is Average and rate it 7, which means you think it's Good, then no, I wouldn't agree. Good means it is better than average. |
KruszerMar 9, 2016 1:37 PM
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| On Rotten Tomatoes the critics say that anything below 60 is rotten (bad), between 60-70 (tomato) (good) and above 70 is Fresh (Great). So i think Average should not be more than 6. In my opinion, Its 5.5 so its either 5 or 6. But i understand your point, if someone only watches good anime then its justified to have a higher mean score, though not higher than 7.00 +- 0.50, if its so high then it cant be taken seriously. |
Klassical said: On Rotten Tomatoes the critics say that anything below 60 is rotten (bad), between 60-70 (tomato) (good) and above 70 is Fresh (Great). So i think Average should not be more than 6. Oh, nice. I operate on something similar. Everything above 6 can get a check, but something below seems too risky. |
| I agree with comparing it to school ratings, and it's how I rate my anime as well. Anything below a 6 was a fail at my school, so if I rate something 5 or lower, then it wasn't enjoyable or too heavily flawed in my opinion and I certainly don't see 5 as an average. I'd view ~6.5 as rating for an average show, just good enough to pass yet not sit on the absolute minimum to pass, and surprisingly enough my current mean score is pretty close to that number (at 6.3). |
| You should rate however you want. In my opinion though, rating something a 7 means you liked the show. I don't understand how a 7 is average. |
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Astonishing to see how many people can't comprehend a 1-10 skale rating system that is even written out for them. |
"Es irrt der Mensch, solang er strebt." - Faust I, Vers 317 |
| American schools have made us believe that anything below 70% is trash. When it comes to anime ratings, a 5 doesn't mean only 50% of the anime was good. It means the anime was between appalling and a masterpiece. |
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Aeonenleben said: Astonishing to see how many people can't comprehend a 1-10 skale rating system that is even written out for them. Yeah,whatever your school used for rating you has no connection with the 10 point scale used here. |
| I agree. 5 does not mean average score, 5 means neutral opinion. 7 should be average because people should be watching good anime. If your score is close to a 5.00 average, then what you are saying is that you do not like or dislike most of the anime. If it's below 5.00 average than what you're saying is that you dislike most of the anime you watch. And this is the problem, if you dislike most of the anime you watch than that means you're a masochist that spends time watching things they don't like, and that they have a poor ability to pick out anime they might potentially enjoy. Most people, should be actively looking for good anime, and most anime are made with enough effort and quality to be considered good or fine. 5/10 does not mean an average anime, the scoring should not be made in comparison to other anime. The scoring should be independent of other anime and based off of personal standards of good and bad. If you think most anime are 5 or below in score, either you're using the scoring wrong or you need to stop watching anime and doing something else that you might enjoy more. |
| I base my ratings on the word next to the number. |
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| Yes, I agree with that as well. I rate most anime series as an 8 or above because I just like the series I watch! |
| I don't get it when people equate school grades to actual critic opinions. We're not looking objective here to say that anime that deserved less than a 4 wouldn't have ever made it. OP is expecting us to think objectively. But opinion is subjective.. I guess it also depends on what respect you're rating it to. If you're comparing it with other anime you've seen (which will obviously good on an average because I don't see people actively looking for bad anime) then yeah, I guess 7 would be average. As in an average score. Not as in the show is of average quality.. KuuhakuDesu said: When I joined MAL a while ago, and I started to learn its features, something came up on my miind: It is really needed to have a 1-10 rate range? I mean, this is the standard. If you gonna create a rating system. it is almost certain that it will have the 1-10 range. But I think that's this is just too wide. As an example, suppose you watched an anime and found it terrible. So you probably will rate it about 5 or even worse. But whhat is the difference between rating it 5, or 4, or even 3? How much meaning this has? Is there really a discrepancy between these values? How much different it is to rate it 5 or rate it 4? To me, it feels like the information given by the rating has too many rating options. It becomes clearer if you use a 1-5 rating system. The discrepancy between each number becomes much more evident, and each oprion has a more meaning. At least for me it is better. I don't get it when people ask that? It's so easy; If an anime made me shake my head in despair but still had a few good moments; ie it didn't make me barf or lose faith in humanity, it was probably a 4. If an anime made me barf and lose faith in humanity, I'd rate it a 2. How is that hard to see? are our brains wired differently or something? Are we different sub races of human beings? |
| No, obviously 5 should be the average. 10 should be the best show you've seen so far and 1 should be the worst show you've seen so far. If you drop stuff that basically means it was a 0/10 for you. |
| You can rate however you want but 5 is average |
KuuhakuDesu said: GesuYarou said: I don't get it when people ask that? It's so easy; If an anime made me shake my head in despair but still had a few good moments; ie it didn't make me barf or lose faith in humanity, it was probably a 4. If an anime made me barf and lose faith in humanity, I'd rate it a 2. How is that hard to see? are our brains wired differently or something? Are we different sub races of human beings? All I have to say is: maybe. And I'm not a 100% sure of that, too, so maybe the answer is maybe. Maybe you won't understand that too, but don't worry, I guess it's just a natural behavior of my human sub-race. It's mostly for the people who actually follow the art, story, sound and enjoyment pattern. For instance, I loathed Mayo Chiki and everything that it stands for. I could have given it a 1 but the art is good so that bumped it up to 3. Now if it were only a 5 point system, those points would be put into decimals. |
| OP too long. I'll just say why I think 7 is average. Cause the US grading scale says a C is borderline passing, which starts exactly at the 70% mark. So grades from 90-100% = A 80-89% = B 70-79%= C 60-69% = D 0-59% = F When grading on a out-of-ten scale, 70% of 10 is 7. So when we say an anime was just barely good enough, it gets a grade of C, which as shown above, corresponds to 70% of 10, which is 7. |
| Now I see the secret of the making of the best persons. It is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth. -Walt Whitman A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein |
Basically this. Anyway, if you're halfway decent at picking out your anime, your average is going to lean towards at 6-7 anyway. Ideally you wouldn't want to go out of your way to watch a shitty show, so it makes sense that you'd be watching more or less what you think you'd enjoy. yosimba2000 said: OP too long. I'll just say why I think 7 is average. Cause the US grading scale says a C is borderline passing, which starts exactly at the 70% mark. So grades from 90-100% = A 80-89% = B 70-79%= C 60-69% = D 0-59% = F When grading on a out-of-ten scale, 70% of 10 is 7. So when we say an anime was just barely good enough, it gets a grade of C, which as shown above, corresponds to 70% of 10, which is 7. Why should everyone have to conform to a US grading system, when a good deal of MAL's users aren't even from the US. |
yosimba2000 said: OP too long. I'll just say why I think 7 is average. Cause the US grading scale says a C is borderline passing, which starts exactly at the 70% mark. So grades from 90-100% = A 80-89% = B 70-79%= C 60-69% = D 0-59% = F When grading on a out-of-ten scale, 70% of 10 is 7. So when we say an anime was just barely good enough, it gets a grade of C, which as shown above, corresponds to 70% of 10, which is 7. That only works on casuals who watch only anime they like or genre they like. Not everyone here watches under the same ideals. |
| I disagree. I use a 6 for average shows and a 5 for average anime in general (specials, music videos, and other shit still count as anime). I have seen anime series that fit every rating on the scale. I personally believed that High Score was a TV show that was worth a 1. There was no story, the characters all look like they need to sleep but we're told they're supposed to look attractive, the animation was shit, there was only 24 minutes of content so I forget what the voice acting was like, but it probably wasn't that great. I consider a score of 7 to be a good score on my scale. After all, MAL does label it as "good" and 5 as "average". I have over 500 completed anime so trying to fit all of the good ones into three ratings would be unorganized and not very useful. I used to use a system like that, but I just felt that it didn't give me enough ratings to use. I was able to convince myself that lower ratings could hold the same weight as long as I believe that they do. |
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FontSize72LOL said: Why should everyone have to conform to a US grading system, when a good deal of MAL's users aren't even from the US. BeBackinaSec said: That only works on casuals who watch only anime they like or genre they like. Not everyone here watches under the same ideals. Well, I didn't read the OP too well, so maybe you guys took my answer as a response to that question. What I meant to say was that it's how it is in the US. I agree, it doesn't have to be the same for everyone because people come from all different places. Some people want 5 to be average, that's cool. But also keep in mind that there should probably be some form of standardization. And seeing how MAL is a website most likely created in the USA, it would follow that they used the US grading scale. |
yosimba2000May 11, 2016 1:26 AM
| Now I see the secret of the making of the best persons. It is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth. -Walt Whitman A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein |
| I just checked and apparently my mean for full length TV series has risen to 6.47, not sure if that's a good thing. |
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| Nah, just because the rest of MAL rates wrong doesn't mean I should too. Besides, if 7 is average, then you only get 3 ratings to differentiate between things you actually like. |
| I agree OP. 7 is considered average. Anything below is trash. I mean can anyone in this thread name me 10 completed anime below a rating of 7 that is good? That's right... I can't either. |
hoopla123 said: Happy Happy Clover, Poor Sisters Story, Yama no Susume, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, Nijiiro☆Prism Girl, Larva... fuck, I give up. That's still six just out of the anime I've seen. If you count "shitty yet enjoyable" anime like Moetan, Chuu Bra, Vividred Operation, and Ore Twintails as "good" then that makes a full ten.I agree OP. 7 is considered average. Anything below is trash. I mean can anyone in this thread name me 10 completed anime below a rating of 7 that is good? That's right... I can't either. |
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zombie_pegasus said: hoopla123 said: Happy Happy Clover, Poor Sisters Story, Yama no Susume, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, Nijiiro☆Prism Girl, Larva... fuck, I give up. That's still six just out of the anime I've seen. If you count "shitty yet enjoyable" anime like Moetan, Chuu Bra, Vividred Operation, and Ore Twintails as "good" then that makes a full ten.I agree OP. 7 is considered average. Anything below is trash. I mean can anyone in this thread name me 10 completed anime below a rating of 7 that is good? That's right... I can't either. No shitty and enjoyable please. I'm talking about straight up quality. No "so bad it was good" shit. Also, excluding kids anime (because people who haven't grown up with the said anime rate to shit since it is targeted towards kids...). |
hoopla123 said: They're more of what I would call "stupid anime" which is the same category Date a Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? would fit into. Pretty much all battle harems fit this definition and some may argue that they're not actually bad because they were intended to be that way.zombie_pegasus said: Happy Happy Clover, Poor Sisters Story, Yama no Susume, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, Nijiiro☆Prism Girl, Larva... fuck, I give up. That's still six just out of the anime I've seen. If you count "shitty yet enjoyable" anime like Moetan, Chuu Bra, Vividred Operation, and Ore Twintails as "good" then that makes a full ten. No shitty and enjoyable please. I'm talking about straight up quality. No so bad it was good shit. |
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zombie_pegasus said: hoopla123 said: They're more of what I would call "stupid anime" which is the same category Date a Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? would fit into. Pretty much all battle harems fit this definition and some may argue that they're not actually bad because they were intended to be that way.No shitty and enjoyable please. I'm talking about straight up quality. No so bad it was good shit. But shows like Date A Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? are not below a 7. I can say that Steins;Gate is similar to Chaos;Head in the fact that they are both mystery/thriller but one is obviously miles better in quality compared to the other.. |
| I'm not reading that shit Having a high average score is because people drop or never watch shows they think they would rate lower to begin with. If they did watch them their average would be lower. So its still above average in the general sense as it fits with their tastes. You didnt have to write a mini novel to figure that shit out. |
hoopla123 said: Score is pretty much irrelevant to the quality of these types of shows. I personally thought Ore Twintails was better than Date a Live. I think it's more about who's rating it rather than how good it actually is. Related, Sword Art Online has continued to drop in score ever since it was released.zombie_pegasus said: They're more of what I would call "stupid anime" which is the same category Date a Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? would fit into. Pretty much all battle harems fit this definition and some may argue that they're not actually bad because they were intended to be that way. But shows like Date A Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? are not below a 7. I can say that Steins;Gate is similar to Chaos;Head in the fact that they are both mystery/thriller but one is obviously miles better in quality compared to the other.. |
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zombie_pegasus said: hoopla123 said: Score is pretty much irrelevant to the quality of these types of shows. I personally thought Ore Twintails was better than Date a Live. I think it's more about who's rating it rather than how good it actually is. Related, Sword Art Online has continued to drop in score ever since it was released.But shows like Date A Live and Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? are not below a 7. I can say that Steins;Gate is similar to Chaos;Head in the fact that they are both mystery/thriller but one is obviously miles better in quality compared to the other.. Of course score doesn't directly correlate with quality. But my point is that generally any show below a 7 in rating on MAL tends to be below average in terms of overall quality hence the usage of 7 = average by many MAL users. |
hoopla123 said: The average score on MAL is 6.9 and the average user score is 7.2. Obviously not only do people tend to use higher scores for rating anime but they also tend to watch anime that already have higher scores.zombie_pegasus said: Score is pretty much irrelevant to the quality of these types of shows. I personally thought Ore Twintails was better than Date a Live. I think it's more about who's rating it rather than how good it actually is. Related, Sword Art Online has continued to drop in score ever since it was released. Of course score doesn't directly correlate with quality. But my point is that generally any show below a 7 in rating on MAL tends to be below average in terms of overall quality hence the usage of 7 = average by many MAL users. |
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zombie_pegasus said: hoopla123 said: The average score on MAL is 6.9 and the average user score is 7.2. Obviously not only do people tend to use higher scores for rating anime but they also tend to watch anime that already have higher scores.Of course score doesn't directly correlate with quality. But my point is that generally any show below a 7 in rating on MAL tends to be below average in terms of overall quality hence the usage of 7 = average by many MAL users. True but how is that relevant to this thread right now? Less people watching a show =/= lower score. |
hoopla123 said: But my point is that generally any show below a 7 in rating on MAL tends to be below average in terms of overall quality hence the usage of 7 = average by many MAL users. i agree, this is not how factual the rating is with regards to MAL's rating system, its about what majority of MAL users considers an average and 7 is the case some evidence from MAL graph http://graph.anime.plus/s/globals |
hoopla123 said: Since the user average is higher than the anime average it means the average user is giving ratings higher than the average anime, in fact they may avoid anime lower than the average deliberately. If people with higher mean scores are avoiding lower rated anime and less popular anime then it means those anime are mostly being scored by people with lower mean scores, which is part of the reason why they have lower ratings. Another reason is that some anime simply are shit and if they're only been seen by a few people anyway those people won't recommend them to other people so their obscurity and low scores remain. The top 100 for score and popularity have a fair bit of overlap.zombie_pegasus said: The average score on MAL is 6.9 and the average user score is 7.2. Obviously not only do people tend to use higher scores for rating anime but they also tend to watch anime that already have higher scores. True but how is that relevant to this thread right now? Less people watching a show =/= lower score. |
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zombie_pegasus said: hoopla123 said: Since the user average is higher than the anime average it means the average user is giving ratings higher than the average anime, in fact they may avoid anime lower than the average deliberately. If people with higher mean scores are avoiding lower rated anime and less popular anime then it means those anime are mostly being scored by people with lower mean scores, which is part of the reason why they have lower ratings. Another reason is that some anime simply are shit and if they're only been seen by a few people anyway those people won't recommend them to other people so their obscurity and low scores remain. The top 100 for score and popularity have a fair bit of overlap.True but how is that relevant to this thread right now? Less people watching a show =/= lower score. There are plenty of examples where low views have higher scores than ones with higher views. Take this for example: http://myanimelist.net/anime/10937/Mobile_Suit_Gundam__The_Origin ^ 2.2k ratings with 8.3/10 average score. compared to this http://myanimelist.net/anime/9330/Dragon_Crisis ^ 48.4k ratings with 6.9/10 average score. People will rate good shows with good scores and shitty ones with shitty scores. Regardless of whether or not a shitty show is abundantly viewed or not. |
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