| What's wrong with a show conveying an ideal? I see this word being thrown around in a bad way too. I just have to ask. |
ethotFeb 29, 2016 1:16 AM
| Sorry, I don't understand what 'escapist' meaning. Another peek at urban dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=escapist |
| Who knows what they had to do to reach that utopia. Freedom Ain’t free. The tree of slice of life gotta be litterd with the blood of wannabee shounen protags. Yuru Yuri aka “Y. Y” is not my escape. he is Islamic propaganta and probbaly jewish as well :DD. TOUMA and Index not touma and MISAKA ok. praise jesus. |
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| I see it as being bad if it's just pandering and jerking off the target audience (SAO). But all entertainment is escapism so it's not inherently bad |
| IFFEH IUU BEHLIEBE EIT NUHRUTOE NUHRUTOE BEHLIEBE EIT BEHLIEBE EIT-IT-IT-IT-IT HEURE AIE AHME WIETH MAI NEEINJUH KLAHN NEEINJUH KLAHN HEURE WEHH STAHNDD NUHRUTOE AIEHME OUNE MAI WEYE NUHRUTOE AIELLE BEEHE OUHKEYE GETUH REHDEY TUH FHITE OUNE SAITE GOUHUT MUHE BHESHT FREENDZ BAH MUHE SAIHDE SAZOOKAYEH HEHZE RELYEH KEWHLE SAHKOOHRAH DUH BEWTIHFUHLE. |
| Well I had one person here on these forums trying to equate escapism anime as being the exact same as becoming an alcoholic and drowning their problems in liquor. I mean, they're obviously the same, and there's no gradient to them. It just goes from 100-0, of course... Escapism just seems like the next buzzword to throw around in place of something that's actually constructive or meaningful. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| There isn't really much wrong with them . They usually aren't particularly deep but that isn't such a bad thing . NGNL is an entertaining escapist anime . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| All entertainment is escapism. So this is a moot point. |
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| > What exactly is wrong with "Escapist" shows? There is nothing wrong with them. 1) In case you feel like pummeling your opponents with authority: Tolkien said quite a lot of good things on this topic. Quote him. My favorite is the one labeling the people who oppose escapism as "jailers". 2) Most entertainment is escapist. Yes, even your elitist show. One can argue that all entertainment is escapist, but I can't prove that. So anybody who opposes escapism opposes entertainment. And, thus, is our *insert category* enemy and needs to be purged. |
tsudecimo said: All entertainment is escapism. So this is a moot point. OP probably means anime that put more of their focus on desirable unrealistic aspects .E.g NGNL is more of an "escapist" anime than I dunno ,Texhnolyze ? |
SodiumChlorideFeb 29, 2016 2:08 AM
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
tsudecimo said: All entertainment is escapism. So this is a moot point. What @SodiumChloride said. Also, people who uses this term tend to it when a show is trying to convey an ideal. You know, the old Realism vs Romanticism debate. |
| Every entertaining is escapism, so nothing wrong with that. |
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CapitalistGod said: Also, people who uses this term tend to it when a show is trying to convey an ideal. "Realism" crowd? Screw them. They are unfun no-imagination straight-laced boring people. The farther a work of fiction is from the horrors of modern world, the better. I don't need anime to tell me about the world. |
| i feel that a shows being an escapism or not is same likeit being pedobait or not. it depend not on shows it self but how a person see it as such as. if you see a series that being acclaimed as "escapism" shows but you don't feel it. it's not escapism shows for you. tsudecimo said: All entertainment is escapism. So this is a moot point. Illyricus said: Every entertaining is escapism, so nothing wrong with that. again, i devinitely agree that nothings wrong with being escapism. entertainment medium is escapism from daily struggle to begin with. to leaving stress and exhaustion that happened in your daily basis. that being said, it's not that mean none problem happened because escapism. the problem is not escapism concept it self, but how escapism affect to a series. sometimes, when escapism totaly affected a series, the stories become totaly ignoring logic (okay, one of logic used is realism logic, but it's not the only one. realism logic only apply when a series supposed to be mundane) and make a character idealized as fuck and feel like series being ignorance with reality and try to compate it. and it's being perfect world of creator and person who recieve it. lets take example. pervert MC supposed to be hated by a decent girl being. but when girl get abbused but still attached to people without reason or just "hey look, he is different, he is cool, he is not being lies with his lust". of course something totaly feel felt on it. |
KumaFeb 29, 2016 4:22 AM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
CapitalistGod said: tsudecimo said: All entertainment is escapism. So this is a moot point. Also, people who uses this term tend to it when a show is trying to convey an ideal. You know, the old Realism vs Romanticism debate. Doesn't make much difference imo. Some shows are easier to escape with but in the end they are all fundamentally the same in that aspect. To have a distinction, you should change the question to wish fulfillment, which is a dumb term but it's more align with what people complain about with shows like harem and such. |
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| My definition of escapism covers anything that doesn't deal with or evoke my daily routine. For example the short Good morning by Satoshi Kon is escapist because I don't brush my teeth in the early morning. Damn, finding non-escapist fiction is so hard. |
jal90 said: funny enough. CGDCT is not escapism fiction IMHO. what part are you try to escape and inserting yourself in it if you are a grown adult man? exept the viewer is a girl. lOl.My definition of escapism covers anything that doesn't deal with or evoke my daily routine. For example the short Good morning by Satoshi Kon is escapist because I don't brush my teeth in the early morning. Damn, finding non-escapist fiction is so hard. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
jal90 said: My definition of escapism covers anything that doesn't deal with or evoke my daily routine. For example the short Good morning by Satoshi Kon is escapist because I don't brush my teeth in the early morning. Damn, finding non-escapist fiction is so hard. (This nearly made me spit what I'm drinking) If only people who throw this term around will read this... xD |
| hmm, could you name some of thoso shows ? As far as i can tell what seems to you , might be diffrent for others . |
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
| "escapit" is just another word to bash every harem and Sao nothing wrong with them in my opinion |
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hisokathebutcher said: hmm, could you name some of thoso shows ? As far as i can tell what seems to you , might be diffrent for others . I'm asking this because I want people who throw this term around to explain themselves. I, myself, don't see anything wrong with it. But to give you an example, I read someone say Bakuman is escapist. |
CapitalistGod said: hmm well then if bakuman escapist , i think that means we could say escapist is" unrelstic emotional trip " sound intersting , joke aside yes i would say bakuman is escapist , perhabs gekkan shoujo nozaki kun is my escapist because i watch it to throw away my problems , in order to live couple of minutes without them . Though if we define it using that logic animes like lain would be the oppist right ,? Hmm and i prefer gekkan shoujo anyday on lain , Man i am escapist at it best . I prefer it and find nothing wrong with it hisokathebutcher said: hmm, could you name some of thoso shows ? As far as i can tell what seems to you , might be diffrent for others . I'm asking this because I want people who throw this term around to explain themselves. I, myself, don't see anything wrong with it. But to give you an example, I read someone say Bakuman is escapist. |
hisokathebutcherFeb 29, 2016 5:19 AM
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
| The show which promotes escapism is not wrong itself. What's wrong is when people get heavily influenced by these shows and start to have difficulty in accepting reality and continues to wallow in the fictional world. In other words, blame the mentality and not the idea itself. |
kamisama751 said: wafu wars Waifu wars are not serious(at least for me... pretty sure, it's the same for many)... I just have fun in participating... |
averywetfrog said: Escapism doesn't allow you to grow. Art should challenge you so that you can improve yourself. It should be about ideas and learning from them rather than escaping from your problems. Why the fuck art "should" do something to me? I hate art that attempts to force my growth, because what I need is to keep my sanity, not to grow. I'm already too good a person for my own good. Kuma said: that being said, it's not that mean none problem happened because escapism. the problem is not escapism concept it self, but how escapism affect to a series. sometimes, when escapism totaly affected a series, the stories become totaly ignoring logic (okay, one of logic used is realism logic, but it's not the only one. realism logic only apply when a series supposed to be mundane) and make a character idealized as fuck and feel like series being ignorance with reality and try to compate it. and it's being perfect world of creator and person who recieve it. Idealism is one of the things that make me like anime (as a whole). Because it's refreshing to see people who are actually good. To see people you'd want to be friends with. To see good triumphing. Kuma said: lets take example. pervert MC supposed to be hated by a decent girl being. but when girl get abbused but still attached to people without reason or just "hey look, he is different, he is cool, he is not being lies with his lust". of course something totaly feel felt on it. It's hard for me to understand what exactly are you saying, but it doesn't seem that hard to believe. Human mind is a weird thing, and clever people are really clever at justifying results they got irrationally. The girl likes the boy because of hormones, and any reason she would make up doesn't really matter, as her decision-making process is completely opaque to her. Kuma said: CGDCT is not escapism fiction IMHO. what part are you try to escape and inserting yourself in it if you are a grown adult man? exept the viewer is a girl. lOl. Self-inserting is not necessary for escapism. Also, self-inserting into characters that are not like you isn't that hard. |
flannanFeb 29, 2016 5:52 AM
| Nothing wrong with escapism anime, only elitist/haters looks down on them. |
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| Nothing wrong with them, but they need some kind of merit. |
flannan said: i don't said idealaism is automaticaly bad thing. but when it totaly off logic when it supposed to use logic, it's become feel totaly out of place. when a character supposed being good guy, okay, but being good guy by "let's said good guy by abusing girl"? what? except it justifiable with logical reason that stabilished in the series.Kuma said: Idealism is one of the things that make me like anime (as a whole). Because it's refreshing to see people who are actually good. To see people you'd want to be friends with. To see good triumphing.that being said, it's not that mean none problem happened because escapism. the problem is not escapism concept it self, but how escapism affect to a series. sometimes, when escapism totaly affected a series, the stories become totaly ignoring logic (okay, one of logic used is realism logic, but it's not the only one. realism logic only apply when a series supposed to be mundane) and make a character idealized as fuck and feel like series being ignorance with reality and try to compate it. and it's being perfect world of creator and person who recieve it. read part that i bold. logic is not only using our world logic. but also how logic in series it self stabilished. lets take example when people can fly. of course the logic on this wolrd, seeing human flying is not wierd. the flying machine will developed really slow because human already achieve it. flannan said: i know human mind is wierd. but everyone (or many character) is wierd and gathered by single person? what? more radiculous if it using for harem tools. and it's even already abusing this trope. again, except it's condition already estabilished by the universe that affected the people in this universe.Kuma said: It's hard for me to understand what exactly are you saying, but it doesn't seem that hard to believe. Human mind is a weird thing, and clever people are really clever at justifying results they got irrationally. The girl likes the boy because of hormones, and any reason she would make up doesn't really matter, as her decision-making process is completely opaque to her.lets take example. pervert MC supposed to be hated by a decent girl being. but when girl get abbused but still attached to people without reason or just "hey look, he is different, he is cool, he is not being lies with his lust". of course something totaly feel felt on it. flannan said: i know. but when you telling about escapism, escaping to the place u like and place u don't like, which one? of course it's obvious.Kuma said: CGDCT is not escapism fiction IMHO. what part are you try to escape and inserting yourself in it if you are a grown adult man? exept the viewer is a girl. lOl. Self-inserting is not necessary for escapism. Also, self-inserting into characters that are not like you isn't that hard. again, i know not every self-inseting is escpism, but escapism (what i mean totaly escapism, the one that "this world is much better than my world, i prefer this universe") is always self-insert. maybe at least not certain character, but only the universe itself. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I believe that an anime should at least portray life as it could be and should be. There's this term called romantic realism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_realism |
| More or less people believe that escapism is used as a form of pandering towards the otaku audience. I can understand the arguments about how it's not healthy for a person to want to escape from an unpleasant reality by immersing themselves in anime (or other form of entertainment), what I don't get is why people think this is currently hurting the anime industry. From what I've heard people "discussing" on these forums is that escapism is the reason why we have so many generic shows these days, i.e SAO, Fairy Tail, NGNL, every harem anime ever, etc. But the thing is, it's not like escapism is new or anything. Hell, Hideaki Anno tried to tell anime fans not to "escape" into anime through Evangelion. So yeah I could agree with the part about it being bad for a person's health if taken to an extreme level, but I don't think it's damaging the industry. Unless of course we talk about male MC character designs. So many of them look the same! (I'm looking at you Kyoto Ani) |
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| Before I say anything else let me clear this up; By 'escapist', by any chance do you mean 'wish-fulfillmen't? If so, then the reasons why people hate them are as follows: -Cardboard cut out, self-insert protagonists. Since looking at the protagonist you are supposed to go "Whoa!! That guy is so cool, he gets all the ladies!! I wish I were that guy!!", there is absolutely no inner conflict, no problems that he has faced in the past & guys like these are just no fun.. -Female/Male supporting cast are merely waifu/husbando material & have no real depth to them. Again, these shows solely exist to pander to the masses. Hence everyone is perfect waifu/husbando material. I mean c'mon, would you rather have a waifu that constantly moans and bitches about how her colleagues treat her like shit & how her dad left her or whatever ? Or would you rather prefer someone who would shut up & make you a sandwich (or in this case, some delicious sukiyaki)? -Everything works itself out. Yep, by the end everything is fine.. Any conflict that did exist in the anime is now solved, MC-kun got the girl & everyone is happy... Now not only is this predictable & cliché , but it's also unrealistic. I just cannot imagine a proper wish-fulfillment anime without the aforementioned factors.. If it doesn't have these, it's not a wish-fulfillment show in the first place... |
CapitalistGod said: from the same pageI believe that an anime should at least portray life as it could be and should be. There's this term called romantic realism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_realism wikipedia said: The terms "romanticism" and "realism" have been used in varied ways,[1] and are sometimes seen as opposed to one another. so there you go. even realism is not absolute. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I use Keely's definition: http://starsbeetlesandfools.blogspot.co.il/2012/12/on-escapism.html An escapist anime contributes nothing. It's not odd, or pretty, or exciting. It can entertain for a while leaves me with nothing. It doesn't mean 'simple entertainment' is bad, because comedy can be insightful and pleasurable. Sexy character design continues the age-old tradition of exploring human beauty. These aren't escapist because they add something to our world. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Anime that provide escapism aren't the problem, the problem are the anime fans that completely forget reality and hate anything related to it. |
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| What the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
CrappyGod-sama said: i have been reading all comments here , trying to figure out what escapist , your the only one that say what on his mind . Though i must add isn't a good anime/movie meant to suck you in ? To capture you ? Whats wrong with thatWhat the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? |
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
hisokathebutcher said: The term escapist show was probably brought about by someone to refer to a work of fiction that did nothing but entertain without provoking any real thought in the viewer. It just seems like an arbitrary buzzword to try and discredit a show past any real criticism. The very nature of storytelling is to allow its audience to temporarily escape or be taken away from reality. That's why whenever I hear people trying to project their own moral philosophy to the inner workings of an anime and just fundamentally disagree with the themes of an anime, I end up shaking my head (granted, this is more along the lines of saying that an anime is bad because it presents such a perspective, rather than saying you simply disagree with that perspective). You don't watch/read a story to expect it to portray everything you believe, you watch/read it to get a different viewpoint.CrappyGod-sama said: i have been reading all comments here , trying to figure out what escapist , your the only one that say what on his mind . Though i must add isn't a good anime/movie meant to suck you in ? To capture you ? Whats wrong with thatWhat the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? |
HolybaptiserFeb 29, 2016 11:57 AM
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
CrappyGod-sama said: but what seems "whitout provoking any real thiught" might not seems the same way to others , also there is nothing wrong with show just for entertain one after hard shity days , the only thing i could point out and say it is bad to do is waifu wars ( if taken way to serious) other than that i see escapist as form of art in way where one can relate ( but not in a way where he can no longer relate in other reality) though aren't we all living in our "own reality" in our mind ? But this is unrelated to this thread , anyway just wanted to point that outhisokathebutcher said: The term escapist show was probably brought about by someone to refer to a work of fiction that did nothing but entertain without provoking any real thought in the viewer. It just seems like an arbitrary buzzword to try and discredit a show past any real criticism.i have been reading all comments here , trying to figure out what escapist , your the only one that say what on his mind . Though i must add isn't a good anime/movie meant to suck you in ? To capture you ? Whats wrong with that |
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
hisokathebutcher said: Believe me, there is nobody on this board that believes in the idea of watching a very lax show without having to put much thought into it after hard day of work as much as I do. The very notion of "this anime is bad because it's just an escapist show" is completely asinine for the reasons stated above. I watch anime and read manga to be relieved of my worldly problems for just a couple of hours a night. That doesn't mean that I don't tackle my real life problems head on when I'm not indulging in my hobby.CrappyGod-sama said: but what seems "whitout provoking any real thiught" might not seems the same way to others , also there is nothing wrong with show just for entertain one after hard shity days , the only thing i could point out and say it is bad to do is waifu wars ( if taken way to serious) other than that i see escapist as form of art in way where one can relate ( but not in a way where he can no longer relate in other reality) though aren't we all living in our "own reality" in our mind ? But this is unrelated to this thread , anyway just wanted to point that outThe term escapist show was probably brought about by someone to refer to a work of fiction that did nothing but entertain without provoking any real thought in the viewer. It just seems like an arbitrary buzzword to try and discredit a show past any real criticism. And without bringing out an existential discussion, I would just say that it's okay for people to escape from reality every now and then. It's just the way that you do it that can bring more harm than good. |
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| There is such a thing as realism in a show, and yes fantasy can be realistic, realism does not necessarily have to describe an object. From what I know, escapism is the opposite of realism, there is nothing wrong with it, but some may argue shows with realism are more meaningful to watch. Most anime have both. |
CrappyGod-sama said: agree with you on that mate , i always tend to ask people here to recommend me some stright forwad anime to watch before sleep just to have couple good hours , but i always end up with replies from your averege elitist bashing those animes , anyway i just want to point that perhabs it is not the way you do it that matter , its what you create that matters , i heard many writter/dierctors that they themself were escapibg from reality , i mean lets face it reality kill imagination , and bla bla bla am just fuckin angry : Dhisokathebutcher said: Believe me, there is nobody on this board that believes in the idea of watching a very lax show without having to put much thought into it after hard day of work as much as I do. The very notion of "this anime is bad because it's just an escapist show" is completely asinine. I watch anime and read manga to be relieved of my worldly problems for just a couple of hours a night. That doesn't mean that I don't tackle my real life problems head on when I'm not indulging in my hobby.but what seems "whitout provoking any real thiught" might not seems the same way to others , also there is nothing wrong with show just for entertain one after hard shity days , the only thing i could point out and say it is bad to do is waifu wars ( if taken way to serious) other than that i see escapist as form of art in way where one can relate ( but not in a way where he can no longer relate in other reality) though aren't we all living in our "own reality" in our mind ? But this is unrelated to this thread , anyway just wanted to point that out And without bringing out an existential discussion, I would just say that it's okay for people to escape from reality every now and then. It's just the way that you do it that can bring more harm than good. |
hisokathebutcherFeb 29, 2016 12:38 PM
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
| Anime like this usually choose not to focus on negative feelings and excise them for the most part, are enveloped in presenting a dream divorced from reality that appeases the fantasies of its audience to be powerful, well-liked, and other attributes not found in their own lives, and a lot are creatively bankrupt in many ways like unreal characterization. Fiction is inherently an imitation of reality, but these works offer very little that's reflective of reality and only offers a small respite from it that doesn't really intellectually stimulate you. A well made example is Aria with its Utopian setting where everyone is nice and pleasant, everyday is a blessing as you work your dream job, and the constant message of enjoying the little things and beauty found in life. It's not inherently bad, but I find Anno's statements regarding this extremely agreeable. |
TonyThemeFeb 29, 2016 1:39 PM
| @Kuma Please keep in mind that a work can be influenced by the author's personal faults and biases, and influenced by the work's high concept, without being idealistic or more escapist than usual. Maybe what you call abuse the author considers the right way to treat girls. For example. there was a heated discussion about KonoSuba and its MC's relationship with Aqua. Kuma said: flannan said: i don't said idealaism is automaticaly bad thing. but when it totaly off logic when it supposed to use logic, it's become feel totaly out of place. when a character supposed being good guy, okay, but being good guy by "let's said good guy by abusing girl"? what? except it justifiable with logical reason that stabilished in the series.Idealism is one of the things that make me like anime (as a whole). Because it's refreshing to see people who are actually good. To see people you'd want to be friends with. To see good triumphing. When a main character is abusing a girl (or many girls), it's not idealism. It's probably realism stretching its evil corrupting tentacles towards the show. Kuma said: i know human mind is wierd. but everyone (or many character) is wierd and gathered by single person? what? Sounds like a typical anime main cast. If an anime's main cast isn't composed of a bunch of weirdos, something has gone wrong. flannan said: i know. but when you telling about escapism, escaping to the place u like and place u don't like, which one? of course it's obvious.Kuma said: CGDCT is not escapism fiction IMHO. what part are you try to escape and inserting yourself in it if you are a grown adult man? exept the viewer is a girl. lOl. Self-inserting is not necessary for escapism. Also, self-inserting into characters that are not like you isn't that hard. again, i know not every self-inseting is escpism, but escapism (what i mean totaly escapism, the one that "this world is much better than my world, i prefer this universe") is always self-insert. maybe at least not certain character, but only the universe itself.[/quote] Yes, a work describing a place that is nicer than the real world: better moral clarity, greener grass and cuter girls is more likely to be labelled escapist. So what? Does it mean CGDCT is somehow not escapist? It is. It has more moral clarity (there are no bad people there for no apparent reason), its grass is greener, and it's full of cute girls. |
CrappyGod-sama said: What the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? Read anybody criticizing escapism, and you'll see that they misuse the word. People constantly misuse words (see pedophilia), probably because of somebody's evil plan. GesuYarou said: Before I say anything else let me clear this up; By 'escapist', by any chance do you mean 'wish-fulfillmen't? If so, then the reasons why people hate them are as follows: -Cardboard cut out, self-insert protagonists. Since looking at the protagonist you are supposed to go "Whoa!! That guy is so cool, he gets all the ladies!! I wish I were that guy!!", there is absolutely no inner conflict, no problems that he has faced in the past & guys like these are just no fun.. Why? Why people demand inner conflict and boring greyness everywhere?? These things just get in the way of the fun parts - the ones where the protagonist kicks ass, heals hearts or whatever he is doing. GesuYarou said: -Female/Male supporting cast are merely waifu/husbando material & have no real depth to them. Again, these shows solely exist to pander to the masses. Hence everyone is perfect waifu/husbando material. I mean c'mon, would you rather have a waifu that constantly moans and bitches about how her colleagues treat her like shit & how her dad left her or whatever ? Or would you rather prefer someone who would shut up & make you a sandwich (or in this case, some delicious sukiyaki)? Once again, people are overrated. You know what? the people who criticize wish-fulfillment and escapism must be extraverts. They should be banned from reading/watching and criticizing in the first place. Better yet, kill them all. GesuYarou said: -Everything works itself out. Yep, by the end everything is fine.. Any conflict that did exist in the anime is now solved, MC-kun got the girl & everyone is happy... Now not only is this predictable & cliché , but it's also unrealistic. Of course everything should work itself out. Otherwise the story wouldn't get a proper conclusion and will keep going on forever. And that works badly, as we know from the long-runners like Naruto and Bleach, which run themselves into the ground sooner or later. GesuYarou said: I just cannot imagine a proper wish-fulfillment anime without the aforementioned factors.. If it doesn't have these, it's not a wish-fulfillment show in the first place... Frankly, you just have bad imagination. There are plenty of wish fulfillment protagonists who aren't Ordinary Highschool Students. For example, I'm pretty sure MC from Bastard is one - a sorcerer seeking to take over the world and take all the girls, he's extremely manly, has the mightiest magics and wins. There is no reason for supporting cast to have no depth either. They just have to be the kind of people who you want to be your friends or lovers. And finally, manga/LN are infamous for going on until something happens to the author, with things never resolving. Even if they are very much wish fulfillment, and the MC's patch is laden with half-naked ladies willing to do anything for him. |
CrappyGod-sama said: What the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? You mean that there aren't stories that examine the nature of existence, themes and help us view them from a new perspective? What are Catch-22 or Denou Coil or the Social Network then? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I've never really seen heavy handed criticism of escapism, it usually stems from an initial attack on wish fulfillment/self-insertion. The idea that since some random loser can relate to Kirito, he must be a wish fulfillment character that exists for the sole purpose of letting geeks and NEETs escape real life. |
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flannan said: every works is always biased by the writer no matter what kind works it is. even scientific and academic works admit it. there is nothing wrong with personal bias. the problem when personal bias showing how pitiful the author. i agree wth the rest of your words. as for Konosuba case, both aqua and kazuma is a dick and being a dick to each other, and there is nothing wrong with that.@Kuma Please keep in mind that a work can be influenced by the author's personal faults and biases, and influenced by the work's high concept, without being idealistic or more escapist than usual. Maybe what you call abuse the author considers the right way to treat girls. For example. there was a heated discussion about KonoSuba and its MC's relationship with Aqua. flannan said: no, they are. that's how "prevert MC" but don't get laid 101.When a main character is abusing a girl (or many girls), it's not idealism. It's probably realism stretching its evil corrupting tentacles towards the show. flannan said: that's why. i don't said it automaticaly bad, but already too abusing it trope. lets being said there is to love ru when there is still pretty decent normal girl like haruna (not IRL thou).Sounds like a typical anime main cast. If an anime's main cast isn't composed of a bunch of weirdos, something has gone wrong. flannan said: escapist for me of make the viewer want to discarding their real life problem and trade it with fiction works. CGDCT is not that type of shows. just using waifuism concept to the max. but waifuism conceptit self actually excapism thou. so yes, CGDCT is escapism, but not as the whole. just girl-realtion escapism.Yes, a work describing a place that is nicer than the real world: better moral clarity, greener grass and cuter girls is more likely to be labelled escapist. So what? Does it mean CGDCT is somehow not escapist? It is. It has more moral clarity (there are no bad people there for no apparent reason), its grass is greener, and it's full of cute girls. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
TheBrainintheJar said: What I mean is that storytelling is a tool for escapism regardless of content. If you read my other posts, you'd see that I said that we look for new perspectives through storytelling. Trying to label something that you deem shallow as escapist is a pretty juvenile method of criticizing - it just seems like middle schoolers calling each other names during recess. CrappyGod-sama said: What the fuck is an escapist show? Isn't indulging in storytelling a method of temporarily escaping from reality to diving into a fantastical world? How does one separate this from reading a book that might take longer to read than watching a season of a television show? How does one differentiate that from watching anime? What are our hobbies other than allowing us to delve into something that isn't the foreboding nature of our stress and anxieties? You mean that there aren't stories that examine the nature of existence, themes and help us view them from a new perspective? What are Catch-22 or Denou Coil or the Social Network then? |
HolybaptiserMar 1, 2016 7:01 AM
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
flannan said: Why? Why people demand inner conflict and boring greyness everywhere?? These things just get in the way of the fun parts - the ones where the protagonist kicks ass, heals hearts or whatever he is doing. >Inner conflict >Boring greyness. Que? Seeing a protagonist fighting off inner conflict is what the audience is here for... If the only way a character thinks he can entertain us is by kicking ass then there's no point in even continuing watching because then I know he's gonna kick some more ass & that's all there is to it.. People like to see new things. Watching someone kick asses & win all the time is repetitive hence boring. Once again, people are overrated. You know what? the people who criticize wish-fulfillment and escapism must be extraverts. They should be banned from reading/watching and criticizing in the first place. Better yet, kill them all. Of course everything should work itself out. Otherwise the story wouldn't get a proper conclusion and will keep going on forever. And that works badly, as we know from the long-runners like Naruto and Bleach, which run themselves into the ground sooner or later. No, things shouldn't work themselves out. It has to be worked upon by the main cast. Of course, things have to end sooner or later but then again, people watch anime to be entertained.. I'm guessing you're the kind of guy who'd drop out of college because "It's too hard" (not saying that that's what you did because I'm sure you're gonna use that against me later on).. Frankly, you just have bad imagination. There are plenty of wish fulfillment protagonists who aren't Ordinary Highschool Students. For example, I'm pretty sure MC from Bastard is one - a sorcerer seeking to take over the world and take all the girls, he's extremely manly, has the mightiest magics and wins. I'm speechless.. I got nothing... There is no reason for supporting cast to have no depth either. Thank you very much... Now pick a side already will ya? They just have to be the kind of people who you want to be your friends or lovers. And finally, manga/LN are infamous for going on until something happens to the author, with things never resolving. Even if they are very much wish fulfillment, and the MC's patch is laden with half-naked ladies willing to do anything for him. I beg to differ. If my life were as monotonous as you want your anime to be, I'd probably be dead right now. I'd have shot myself in the chin with a shotgun. But hey, what am I to say? I'm the one with the 'bad imagination' here.. Also your last statement made no sense.. So apparently your main argument is that Gary Stu MCs, shallow characters & deus ex machina > Actual good stories with well realized, well thought out & written characters? Okay mang, whatever floats your boat.. |
| all entertainment=escapism. People who hates escapism is just a communist. |
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You said: i though communist it self is just escapism from society with social class.all entertainment=escapism. People who hates escapism is just a communist. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
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