Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
#1
Feb 18, 2016 1:48 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 820
(Spoilers for episodes 1-7)

So I have a few questions regarding Satoru's Revival power, and how it works in the story, that I want to bring up for discussion.

As we learned in the first episode, Satoru's Revival power usually only takes him back a few seconds in time and seemingly activates of its own accord. Satoru himself seems to believe that it activates in order for him to prevent something bad from happening, even when he is unaware of such an event occurring. When he saves the child from the truck and the girl from being kidnapped, it is only AFTER Revival triggers that he begins to look for something out of place, to try to stop the "bad event" before it happens. These instances serve to illustrate how Revival works, and in this it succeeds: it is made clear that Satoru has no control over his power, and that it only acts in a limited capacity.

Then Satoru experiences an 18-year Revival directly after finding his mother dead, travelling back in time to several days before Hinazuki Kayo's murder in 1988. We, and Satoru, are led to believe that this is the same Revival power, albeit with its range drastically increased - instead of travelling back in time a few seconds in order to prevent a bad event from occurring, he travels back in time almost two decades to do the same thing. We can reasonably assume that Kayo's killer and his mother's killer are the same person, and that if Satoru stops the killer from murdering Kayo then he will stop him from killing his mother as well (the logic of which is somewhat dubious, but that's besides the point). Even though the extent to which Revival can send him back in time (or it's "range") has greatly changed, at this point it's original function and rules still seem to be intact, operating on the principle of causality where one event (the cause) will affect an outcome (the effect).

It is only in episode 5 where I believe the problems start to appear, starting with when he suddenly snaps back to the "present" of 2006 from 1988 after failing to prevent Kayo's death. I say "present" because it is exactly the same as the original present he came from, with the exception of the date of Kayo's disappearance (and her death) being altered. My question is: How is it possible that nothing else has changed? I understand it might not be feasible from a story standpoint to have Satoru relive 18 years of his life just to reach the new timelines' equivalent of his present, but the alternative seen in the show where he simply skips those 18 years altogether seems unlikely. Even if he DOES skip those years, how is it possible for his life to be exactly the same as in the previous timeline's present? The 11-year-old Satoru who failed to save Kayo had the memories and intellect of a 29-year old, and then presumably would have had 18 years to use it. How does he still end up a struggling mangaka/pizza boy, with the same relationship with his mom and co-workers in the previous timeline, with that drastic change? Did those memories make no difference at all in his life? Should he not have tried to do something else with his life? Should he not have had knowledge of his mother's death and thus somehow tried to prevent it? It is almost as if the 18 years he "skipped" never happened, and that the changes he made in the past have been just haphazardly applied to his "present" despite the fact that that present should be radically different. It's not even that we as the audience didn't see him relive those years - Satoru was just dropped back where he'd come from with eighteen years worth of memories which should now be completely inaccurate. This seems extremely unrealistic to me, and a huge problem with the Revivial power.

Another issue arises in the seventh episode, in which Satoru appears to activate Revival of his own accord. Perhaps why he can do this will be explained later, but for now it is a complete departure from what was previously established about the power. I can think of one possible explanation, which is that because he has gone back to try to save Kayo (and his mother) before, he can do so again on demand. However, this would conflict with his statement that this is his "final Revivial" ... which would not only imply that he can't control it, but that he somehow knows he will lose the power. I'm just getting more and more confused here. Furthermore, he doesn't go back to the same time he did before? Did he do this on purpose, or did the universe just decide to send him there?

My apologies if this seems overlong or too much like a rant, but I really am curious about the time travel aspects of this show and desire to discuss it with all of you. How do you think Revival works, based on what we have seen of it so far?
 
#2
Feb 18, 2016 1:58 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 57
You are right. As much as Erased is undoubtedly a great show, the Revival power is used for a great plot convenience. Unless it will be adequately explained at the end, the logic of his power won't go anything beyond making the plot work the way it does.
 
#3
Feb 18, 2016 2:00 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4319
i love how anime fans love to have things spoonfed to them

u dont need to know how things work

for god sakes if any of u actually go and watch Inception
 
#4
Feb 18, 2016 3:11 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 273
moodie said:
i love how anime fans love to have things spoonfed to them

u dont need to know how things work

for god sakes if any of u actually go and watch Inception

It's not only 'anime fans' though. Integrating certain story elements merely for the convenience of the plot is something that concerns story-writing in general and is not limited to Anime or Manga. Seeing that kind of criticism outside of Anime/Manga shouldn't be too unusual.
 
#5
Feb 18, 2016 3:22 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4319
Kirua- said:
moodie said:
i love how anime fans love to have things spoonfed to them

u dont need to know how things work

for god sakes if any of u actually go and watch Inception

It's not only 'anime fans' though. Integrating certain story elements merely for the convenience of the plot is something that concerns story-writing in general and is not limited to Anime or Manga. Seeing that kind of criticism outside of Anime/Manga shouldn't be too unusual.
nah what ive noticed compared to western movie fans is that anime fans need too much exposition
 
#6
Feb 18, 2016 3:42 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1299
Purse speculation by me. read at your own risk. I read up to manga chapter 38 though. SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS DONT READ IF UR NOT UP TO 38
 
#7
Feb 18, 2016 3:57 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 273
moodie said:
nah what ive noticed compared to western movie fans is that anime fans need too much exposition

Well, due to Erased's immense popularity people deliberately and desperately keep searching for something they can criticize, just to not share the general opinion and stand out. That's one point where I'll agree the Anime community is kinda retarded and doubt that other communities are significant in that aspect. While I do agree an explanation of revival is very essential to a good and conclusive ending to this story, I think it's kinda ridiculous what kind of criticism people have come up with. Especially if people criticize certain story elements not being explained and passing those off as plot-holes when the story is not even complete yet. Like, what's the point?

And yeah, I'm derailing quite a bit with that but I just had to say that right now.
 
#8
Feb 18, 2016 4:09 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2952
Kirua- said:
moodie said:
nah what ive noticed compared to western movie fans is that anime fans need too much exposition

Well, due to Erased's immense popularity people deliberately and desperately keep searching for something they can criticize, just to not share the general opinion and stand out. That's one point where I'll agree the Anime community is kinda retarded and doubt that other communities are significant in that aspect. While I do agree an explanation of revival is very essential to a good and conclusive ending to this story, I think it's kinda ridiculous what kind of criticism people have come up with. Especially if people criticize certain story elements not being explained and passing those off as plot-holes when the story is not even complete yet. Like, what's the point?

And yeah, I'm derailing quite a bit with that but I just had to say that right now.
At this point of the show and considering how this particular aspect has been left aside the whole time, I actually think they can't explain it without it being worse than just ignoring it. And to prove this point, just try to imagine in any way they can explain this phenomena without introducing anything even harder to believe.

It is something that can be criticised, but it's been like this since the very first minute of the show. Nothing new. If anything bothers me about Erased are some of the characters motivations and attitudes, as well as part of the dialogue. Specially since the 5th episode. So yeah, it has nothing to do with this aspect.

Either way, I'm not too fond of criticising aspects of the plot, since they theorically still have time (not much) to reveal stuff in the upcoming episodes.
 
#9
Feb 18, 2016 4:49 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 273
But Erased is in fact about a character with a supernatural ability that he himself doesn't really comprehend. It would make 0 sense to start a mystery series by explaining the mystery. It makes much more sense to have the main character realize what his ability actually is by the end or at least near the end of the story. I don't see the author running away from the explanation of Revival, what I do see is him (or she, I don't know who the author is atm) keeping it for later, for the moment where the story has progressed to a point of time, where, the main character is able to conclude what is actually going on.

If the author does not explain Revival by the end of the story then of course I'd take everything back, but criticizing upon a speculation is downright unreasonable.
 
Feb 18, 2016 6:11 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3893
You shouldn't be concerned about why the present is nearly the same as before. Time-travel stories are bound to have some holes.
>>Petition for a legal reform for the law regarding sexual violence in Japan<<

http://chng.it/tXTbL2yJgG
 
Feb 18, 2016 6:23 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 173
I wish it was explained better it doesn't take away from the story one as i still see it as very well thought out and masterful, but but I also questioned whether this would actually be his last revival,
 
Feb 18, 2016 7:03 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2913
The time travel aspect of this series is really weak
Another thing i have no idea of is what happen with the past satoru when he is controlled by his future self
Does he keep the memories of that time or he keeps the memories amd have no idea why he acted that way?
 
Feb 18, 2016 7:33 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6625
Keep the discussion about the show and/or the ability. Posts venturing too far off-topic will be removed.




 
Feb 18, 2016 8:04 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 941
it doesnt work... its a plot device... about as plot devicey as you can get, its probably the weakest aspect of the show... though there are some other issues...
 
Feb 18, 2016 11:40 PM

Online
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 6027
Kirua- said:
But Erased is in fact about a character with a supernatural ability that he himself doesn't really comprehend. It would make 0 sense to start a mystery series by explaining the mystery. It makes much more sense to have the main character realize what his ability actually is by the end or at least near the end of the story. I don't see the author running away from the explanation of Revival, what I do see is him (or she, I don't know who the author is atm) keeping it for later, for the moment where the story has progressed to a point of time, where, the main character is able to conclude what is actually going on.

If the author does not explain Revival by the end of the story then of course I'd take everything back, but criticizing upon a speculation is downright unreasonable.


Hmm no, I have read till the penultimate chapter, but no clear-cut explanation is given for it. Unless the author does something in last chapter, I don't see anything. And after all, it has got a supernatural tag.

Anyway, basically you have to assume the "rules" for it.

1. Its triggered when death will happen near him
2. If death is prevented , life goes on
3.Once in a while, preventing death successfully get him in a bad situation(first ep)

Also maybe the intimacy of the victim to satoru has an effect on his time-jump, but that's just my assumption here. Although the last one he himself was the victim, so that doesn't work I guess.
 
Feb 19, 2016 12:33 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1
All right so just for starters I didn't read all the comments so if I step on someone's toes then I'm sorry. With that out of the way I will be drawing some of my information from the movie the butterfly effect. If you are not familiar with this movie it is a movie about a man trying to save a girl in the future by going back in time by looking at old photos or memories to change that point for better or worse. (Funny how these two sound so similar.) But and this is the main point the main character of the movie is only there for that moment. Though drastically he changes the future over and over in his attempts they are in the end large critical things. Think back to the moment were he is stuck in jail trying to get help from one of the other inmates. He is asked to prove that he can alter something so he goes back to a day that he was drawing in class with the other students. After he finishes draw the picture he rames his hand on two spikes on the teaches desk. He then is back in the cell with the inmate only now with two old puncher wonders on his hands nothing else has changed he's still in the cell just now with some old scars. Plus the character of this movie said as a kid he'd sometimes black out and had done things with no memories of what he did. So back to Erased I don't find it hard to believe that seeing as he didn't do anything major besides removing the girl from the park for a day that it would change anything his actions were too small to change the future in any major way. This is why when he goes back to the present nothing's different and why his previous self wouldn't change ether the mind possessing that body had disappeared so he went back to being normal and continued on with his every day life he had carried out the same ask if he did when he was younger that lets the same point that he was now. But that's my thoughts on the reasons the future didn't change. If you read this to the end thanks it's late and I couldn't be bothered to punctuate this correctly so thank you for reading through this.
 
Feb 19, 2016 12:48 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 643
actually nothing was further explained besides on what we got from the first chapters of the manga/anime

that power is pure plot convenience nothing more, nothing less.
 
Feb 19, 2016 1:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 49
For those, saying that the revival makes no sense and does not follow the rules, that is not true.

There's usually 3 ways of looking at time travel:

Butterfly effect: things can be changed, and they will completely alter everything else
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler, everything in the world will be different when I return. Because Hitler did not exist, my parents did not meet. I cease to exist.
or
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler, everything in the world is different. The old world no longer exists. I was meant to go back in time to kill Hitler. I continue to exist.

Constants and variables (Bioshock Infinite): things can be changed, but only certain variables as there are constants
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. My parents still meet because them meeting is a constant of the universe. My birth is a constant. I continue to exist.
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. I cannot kill him no matter what because he is a constant in the universe. My time travel is futile.

Static change (ERASED): things can be changed, without altering the universe completely
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. I come back and the world is just as I remember, only Hitler does not exist.

As you can see the third one goes by its own rules. Because time travel isn't real, there is no set of indisputable, irrefutable rules that time travel MUST FOLLOW. Erased creates its own rules, because Erased is a fictitious universe. It is up to the author to establish those time travel rules. By the looks of it, Erased seems to be following a "constants and variables" structure. Kayo's death appears to be a constant, and the details of her death appear to be variables, but it is capable of creating its own unique one, meaning Kayo could survive!! Who knows?? I'm personally hoping she does!!!

HOPE THIS HELPS :)
Modified by blueshootingstar, Feb 19, 2016 1:31 AM
 
Feb 19, 2016 2:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 57
In terms of Revival, all I noticed is that it always happens when the culprit is near him rather than when and where the accident actually occurs. If the culprit is missing, he will not revive. I do not know how Satoru knew that in episode 7 it was going to be his last revival though; I guess it was a speech added for dramatic effect, a 'gut' feeling his character had.

Static change type of time travel explains why the universe he is in did not change much after he returned to the present, although our common sense tells us that he should have been looking for a kidnapper for all of these years... Except he never tried to find who the kidnapper is in the first place. No matter whether he was in the present or the past, he only kept running away from the boogie man instead of facing him.

Modified by LadyNightmare, Feb 19, 2016 2:11 AM
 
Feb 19, 2016 2:36 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 643
blueshootingstar said:
For those, saying that the revival makes no sense and does not follow the rules, that is not true.

There's usually 3 ways of looking at time travel:

Butterfly effect: things can be changed, and they will completely alter everything else
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler, everything in the world will be different when I return. Because Hitler did not exist, my parents did not meet. I cease to exist.
or
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler, everything in the world is different. The old world no longer exists. I was meant to go back in time to kill Hitler. I continue to exist.

Constants and variables (Bioshock Infinite): things can be changed, but only certain variables as there are constants
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. My parents still meet because them meeting is a constant of the universe. My birth is a constant. I continue to exist.
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. I cannot kill him no matter what because he is a constant in the universe. My time travel is futile.

Static change (ERASED): things can be changed, without altering the universe completely
ex. I go back in time to kill Hitler. I come back and the world is just as I remember, only Hitler does not exist.

As you can see the third one goes by its own rules. Because time travel isn't real, there is no set of indisputable, irrefutable rules that time travel MUST FOLLOW. Erased creates its own rules, because Erased is a fictitious universe. It is up to the author to establish those time travel rules. By the looks of it, Erased seems to be following a "constants and variables" structure. Kayo's death appears to be a constant, and the details of her death appear to be variables, but it is capable of creating its own unique one, meaning Kayo could survive!! Who knows?? I'm personally hoping she does!!!

HOPE THIS HELPS :)


And this is why its calles plot convinience, his powers go whenever the author wants it to go.
 
Feb 19, 2016 4:24 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 210
Equitum said:
(Spoilers for episodes 1-7)
It is only in episode 5 where I believe the problems start to appear, starting with when he suddenly snaps back to the "present" of 2006 from 1988 after failing to prevent Kayo's death. I say "present" because it is exactly the same as the original present he came from, with the exception of the date of Kayo's disappearance (and her death) being altered. My question is: How is it possible that nothing else has changed? I understand it might not be feasible from a story standpoint to have Satoru relive 18 years of his life just to reach the new timelines' equivalent of his present, but the alternative seen in the show where he simply skips those 18 years altogether seems unlikely. Even if he DOES skip those years, how is it possible for his life to be exactly the same as in the previous timeline's present?

The 11-year-old Satoru who failed to save Kayo had the memories and intellect of a 29-year old, and then presumably would have had 18 years to use it. How does he still end up a struggling mangaka/pizza boy, with the same relationship with his mom and co-workers in the previous timeline, with that drastic change? Did those memories make no difference at all in his life? Should he not have tried to do something else with his life? Should he not have had knowledge of his mother's death and thus somehow tried to prevent it? It is almost as if the 18 years he "skipped" never happened, and that the changes he made in the past have been just haphazardly applied to his "present" despite the fact that that present should be radically different. It's not even that we as the audience didn't see him relive those years - Satoru was just dropped back where he'd come from with eighteen years worth of memories which should now be completely inaccurate. This seems extremely unrealistic to me, and a huge problem with the Revivial power.


Well, how about this explanation:

- It was showed that Satoru's power works by sending his mind into his past self's mind.
- When he "went back" to the future : his adult mind "left" his past self's mind.
- His past self now only have original mind and intelligence and memory and live normally until the present.
 
Feb 19, 2016 4:46 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 405
Judging from the first incident Revival Ability seems to give user a minimal amount of time to influence the timeline (i.e. jumping in front of speeding car) and also requires a very specific actions taken in the process (i.e. pushing someone in front of the car to replace the original victim probably won't work). If wrong action is taken, timeline seems to rest on itself to prevent butterfly effect and only changes made are those who are supposed to lead protagonist towards the right action. Someone or something actually blocks user (Satoru) to cause butterfly effect and timeline seems to auto-correct itself (i.e. major changes in schoolkids relationships were attempted, but timeline seems to be auto-correcting itself to prevent the butterfly effect)

I would even go as far and assume that "wrong" actions taken are reset and eventually removed from timeline.

Let's assume Satoru piloting 10-years old body actually made some explosive and tried to actually bomb the school, he would be suddenly back to the present where nothing happened and Revival would go all "nope"
 
Feb 19, 2016 5:11 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 861
it's the Butterfly Effect dude.
 
Feb 19, 2016 6:22 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5289
moodie said:
i love how anime fans love to have things spoonfed to them

u dont need to know how things work

for god sakes if any of u actually go and watch Inception

Unfortunately popularity of anime made average watcher into person with attention span of a squirrel.
 
Top