ouriel said: TheBrainintheJar said: Entertaining may not be great, but if a show manages to entertain isn't it a sign of at least some success? Yes and no. It will depend on what it is that we deem successful, based on our expectations to meet, perhaps, some certain qualities, i.e., writing, characters, plot, cinematography, economic success, acting. Let's use Transformers as an example once again. When it first came out, it was something new in that period of time and refreshing, especially when it came to blending certain techniques in animation and how they used the transformation along with the overuse of [big] explosions, then the you have somewhat good story and so-so dialogues, with good acting. And then, you start to see the same formula over and over again in the sequels(and reboot) and it's no longer entertaining; you start to notice how camera's going to move, the same explosions, the same recipe for conflict and resolution, more one-liners and plethora of other things that used to be new and refreshing in the first movie. So, because of these issues, it is no longer entertaining. (I won't extrapolate much on this) Now, let's take a look at the reboot of X-men, First Class and it's sequel Days of Future Past; the story is different, some issues that were present in the reboot got improved, the writing was better, the conflict and resolution, were somewhat different and it managed to stay entertaining, to be different than the first, be more creative than repeating itself. And in this case, we can say that it achieved success. Oh, I see. It fails because it stops being entertaining, because what made it entertaining became cliched and overstayed its welcome. I also don't think that depth/artistic merit and entertainment stand in opposite. Depth makes the show more engrossing, more entertaining. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Well this is a hard question :S I have no idea what to say. The story is highly important :S Slice of Life stories are emotion focused stories (or just for fun if its a comedy sol). One of the best kinds to ever exist (GARDEN OF WORDS HELLO!). Just to say. |
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| In my opinion, Angel Beats is a show that does not explore a particularly good storyline with bad pacing,etc.- yet the mortality concepts that they explore and the character backstories really create very good show That and its awesome animation and sound |
| May be gundam series? Cool mech is one of the reason I watch gundam. Otherwise, the stories are pretty much the same every time. |
DKD0402 said: The only example I can think of is the Ufotable's remade Fate series. Mediocre plot but can still pull its own weight with great directing, visual and sound. DKD0402 said: Mediocre plot but can still pull its own weight with great directing, visual and sound. DKD0402 said: great directing NO. OT: Pokemon has a bad and very repetitive storyline that is recycled for 6 generations. There are some side stories thrown within but in the end it's all about the Pokemon League and Ash's never-ending losing streak. Thinking about it, it looks like something I would get tired of eventually but the world of Pokemon is just so amazing. The characters also grew on me throughout the years, even Ash. Though I still think the original trio of Ash, Misty, and Brock were the most perfect team but the new members were still fairly likable especially May. |
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| Characters have to be decent or even an awesome story won't save the anime. |
| What did you guys think what Charlotte was ? |
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Z-Dante said: What did you guys think what Charlotte was ? A great anime, but the story fell apart nearing the end. Think I mentioned it earlier in the thread. But its not like the story was bad all the way through it. Most people seem to say that it starts to derail halfway through, but I enjoyed the story until the final couple of episodes where it didn't really matter any more. |
| I don't think an anime can be 'great' with a bad storyline. Storyline is the most defining feature of most entertainment media - excluding comedies and slice of life and a few others as aforementioned since these are usually comedy and character driven. If a story falters, the media - be it a TV, book, movie, or in our case, anime, will suffer, no matter how amazing the other aspects are. An anime can have crap visuals and mediocre characters, but I think if the story is amazing enough and if it's delivered properly then you'll fail to notice these little quirks, so story really plays a big part. Maybe there are others who manage without an amazing storyline, but I think these come out as mediocre and unforgettable, thus failing to be 'great'. Some are thought to be 'great' only because the characters and designs are iconic (Great =/= Iconic). -bakaonna |
bakaonnaFeb 15, 2016 7:01 PM
| The most important aspect of anime in my opinion is the characters, so any anime with amazing characters is a great anime, regardless if it lacks in the story aspect. |
| Anime sucks. |
| I think a lot of anime do really well with really weird concepts and storylines. Like take Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill, for example. If you think about what actually happens, the story is pretty bad, but they're still awesome anime and manage to be really good without having an amazing story. |
Hypermoyashi said: I think a lot of anime do really well with really weird concepts and storylines. Like take Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill, for example. If you think about what actually happens, the story is pretty bad, but they're still awesome anime and manage to be really good without having an amazing story. If you liked those, watch Dead Leaves. That one doesn't even have the characters of KLK but just plain wackiness. Yet it works, somehow. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| 1) A great anime isn't dependent on its storyline. It's good every moment, you don't have to wait though 5 episodes of a boring fight just to find out what's next. 2) There are a number of cliche plots that just work. For example, "an ordinary person becoming stronger (with skill, friends, artifacts or whatever) and defeating some great evil in the end". If you think about it, this storyline is totally cliched and bad. But it works. TTGL has this storyline, and it's so great it pulled the entire mecha genre back from the grave dug out by Evangelion. 3) If you're talking about plots that are actually badly broken in adaptation, or didn't work in the first place, there are great anime that are like this. S.E.Lain is praised by the people who survived it. But it doesn't have any coherent plot - it's just weird stuff happening, then weirder stuff happening, and in the end, the show tries to explain it all away with dubious science and conspiracy. Gotta love its jab at the software bloat in the ending. |
| If great anime then bad story line so if an anime has a bad story line then why is it great? Well... If I were to give one it will be - " Shimoneta to Iu Gainen ga Sonzai Shinai Taikutsu na Sekai" the "story" itself may sound something... ergh you know what I mean right? xD unless you did not watch it. What made it a great anime for me are the puns and metamorphic for every "thing" they describe which makes it funny xD |
Xeraeulius said: If great anime then bad story line so if an anime has a bad story line then why is it great? Greatness comes from taking on worthy themes. Beat around the same old story of fighting pointless evil, or about power of friendship - and you become ordinary. Try to bite more than you can chew - and while the critics will appreciate your efforts, this will end in failure. Look for themes that are under-appreciated, gather your wisdom and your research, do your thinking, and you might make a work that will strike into the hearts of the viewers. Just don't forget to make it good and fun, so that the viewers will actually watch it. |
This is pretty much how I feel. As long as I liked the characters enough, I'm willing to overlook the bad storyline/plot. It wouldn't end up being anything I would give a 9-10 to probably, but it could still be a modest 6-7 or an 8 if the characters are really amazing. |
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| Sure it can, otherwise episodic anime (as in, a sequence of unrelated arcs) wouldn't be a thing. |
| No. If I call a show great it probably doesn't have something as important as the fucking plot being bad. That's just my set of values though in storytelling. Oh yeah I just thought about this question. What happens when it's mushishi or some kind of episodic show? Well each episode has an interesting storyline so yeah that is kind of the exception there or at least for the most part. |
| Brace yourself. Soon as LotGH 2017 comes out. The anime community is going to become so cancerous you will need to take cover and hide. |
Noxious_ said: Mushishi don't have interesting plotline. in fact, most of plotline is not really different from usual episodic shows. often re-used many times in series itself.Oh yeah I just thought about this question. What happens when it's mushishi or some kind of episodic show? Well each episode has an interesting storyline so yeah that is kind of the exception there or at least for the most part. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Some would say that the story is the biggest factor in the anime experience so yeah it's usually the case most of the time I'd rather have an enjoyable plotless show rather than a show with an unsatisfying plot. |
Ok... can you elaborate a bit further instead of using Caps? i still think that the fighting sequence and the general flow of each episode was good despite the bad plot and not very developed characters |
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Noxious_ said: No. If I call a show great it probably doesn't have something as important as the fucking plot being bad. That's just my set of values though in storytelling. Oh yeah I just thought about this question. What happens when it's mushishi or some kind of episodic show? Well each episode has an interesting storyline so yeah that is kind of the exception there or at least for the most part. The plot's importance is mostly overrated. Plot works when it's a vehicle to deliver great characters - Dennou Coil, Danganronpa, Digimon Tamers. Some anime have no main storyline, like WataMote but the characters are the best you can get. Sometimes you also get bizarre experiments, like Dead Leaves. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Noxious_ said: No. If I call a show great it probably doesn't have something as important as the fucking plot being bad. That's just my set of values though in storytelling. Oh yeah I just thought about this question. What happens when it's mushishi or some kind of episodic show? Well each episode has an interesting storyline so yeah that is kind of the exception there or at least for the most part. The plot's importance is mostly overrated. Plot works when it's a vehicle to deliver great characters - Dennou Coil, Danganronpa, Digimon Tamers. Some anime have no main storyline, like WataMote but the characters are the best you can get. Sometimes you also get bizarre experiments, like Dead Leaves. Yeah actually I think you are correct about that. I think what I was not liking was plotless school slice of life. What you said about those shows are pretty true. |
| Brace yourself. Soon as LotGH 2017 comes out. The anime community is going to become so cancerous you will need to take cover and hide. |
| Maybe I'm a bit biased, but isn't the storyline the most important part? It's the thing that makes you want to keep on watching, therefore if it's disappointing... |
 ~Appilesh~ |
DJBay said: Seen a lot of posts saying that story is the most important part of an anime. There have been good one with bad characters or bad art or bad sound. But is it possible to have a great anime with a bad story-line, or is it destined to fail. **Edit: I meant ignoring Slice Of Life or other shows that don't need a storyline.** Also, by bad story-line I mean bad in your eyes as the viewer. entirely depends on your definitely of "great anime" and if you prioritize story i don't prioritize story, so "great anime" for me is usually anything that has the few things visual elements and personalities im looking for that i feel are done slightly better than the others |
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| Yep. Just look at the Monogatari series. The characters and dialogue are good enough to make the series amazing but the actual storyline is incredibly boring and still hasn't given me a reason to care about it. |
| Just two words -------- Dragon Ball |
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Noxious_ said: TheBrainintheJar said: The plot's importance is mostly overrated. Plot works when it's a vehicle to deliver great characters - Dennou Coil, Danganronpa, Digimon Tamers. Some anime have no main storyline, like WataMote but the characters are the best you can get. Sometimes you also get bizarre experiments, like Dead Leaves. Yeah actually I think you are correct about that. I think what I was not liking was plotless school slice of life. What you said about those shows are pretty true. I think these shows can be great, but they're not driven by specific events but by interaction between characters. SOL needs either a unique premise or great characters. Galaxy Angel is a prime example of how it works. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
DKD0402 said: Ok... can you elaborate a bit further instead of using Caps? i still think that the fighting sequence and the general flow of each episode was good despite the bad plot and not very developed characters Fighting scenes and the animation in general is splendid. It matched the amazingly rendered backgrounds. Pacing was a mess but can be fixed when marathoned. Making the MC as bland as possible completely destroys the whole point of the route and only makes him look like an idiot. |
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| I don't think so. If you fail in the most basic element, the storyline, you'll story will be bad. Look at Guilty Crown: great art, amazing soundtrack, messy storyline. |
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| I think that's what you'd call hentai. |
| You are now breathing manually. |
sobanoodle said: There's a difference between a bad storyline and no storyline.I think that's what you'd call hentai. |
~Appilesh~ |
BlancaXLobo said: I don't think so. If you fail in the most basic element, the storyline, you'll story will be bad. Look at Guilty Crown: great art, amazing soundtrack, messy storyline. The most basic element is characters, not story. Characters can create stories on their own, but a story cannot create characters. If you have well-developed personalities, their desires/wants will create events. A story with no characters just reveals how artificial it is. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: BlancaXLobo said: I don't think so. If you fail in the most basic element, the storyline, you'll story will be bad. Look at Guilty Crown: great art, amazing soundtrack, messy storyline. The most basic element is characters, not story. Characters can create stories on their own, but a story cannot create characters. If you have well-developed personalities, their desires/wants will create events. A story with no characters just reveals how artificial it is. And still, Guilty Crown is awful failing in the screenplay, where there are the characters and the storyline. The characters feel artificial, bad developed personalities, if they had one. Still, you can have a charismatic cast, like Kekkai Sensen, and fail with a rushed plot, or have a good story, like Hakomari, and fail creating interesting characters. |
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Noxious_ said: TheBrainintheJar said: The plot's importance is mostly overrated. Plot works when it's a vehicle to deliver great characters - Dennou Coil, Danganronpa, Digimon Tamers. Some anime have no main storyline, like WataMote but the characters are the best you can get. Sometimes you also get bizarre experiments, like Dead Leaves. Yeah actually I think you are correct about that. I think what I was not liking was plotless school slice of life. What you said about those shows are pretty true. How are their characters? Maybe you don't like the series because the characters are also undeveloped and don't create a story? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Final fantasy spirits within no one knows it really existed because it was the worst plot ever pretty sure people other then me try to forget how bad it was. Actually getting up and walking out of the movie theater mid way on the movie that's pretty bad. Story is important. |
| all i know that i cant love anime if i dont like the story |
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Appilesh said: sobanoodle said: There's a difference between a bad storyline and no storyline.I think that's what you'd call hentai. Some hentai do have story lines though. For example Euphoria has one, and I thought it was pretty interesting for a hentai. But if that plot was used in anything other than hentai, I would think it was bad and that the main character was stupid. |
| You are now breathing manually. |
Tenshi_Shura said: DKD0402 said: Ok... can you elaborate a bit further instead of using Caps? i still think that the fighting sequence and the general flow of each episode was good despite the bad plot and not very developed characters Fighting scenes and the animation in general is splendid. It matched the amazingly rendered backgrounds. Pacing was a mess but can be fixed when marathoned. Making the MC as bland as possible completely destroys the whole point of the route and only makes him look like an idiot. This aspect of the show really gets an unfair amount of heat .Cutting out monologues was a blow but it's still very possible to surmise that he's definitely not badly written from the show itself .All a person has to do is pay attention to his interactions with others in the first season . Because people want fights and aren't looking for many philosophical aspects they over look this and so complain .It took me a rewatch before I finally wrapped my head around things but I know of people who still managed to grab what was going on by the first watch . The major reason for annoyance is because UBW is a very different story from Zero and so people feel too cheated to look past the surface .It wasn't supposed to be one ,but it ended up being a somewhat 2deep4u anime . I'm sure people would have complained about how it ''told'' and didn't ''show'' if it went with monologues though . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
SodiumChloride said: Tenshi_Shura said: Fighting scenes and the animation in general is splendid. It matched the amazingly rendered backgrounds. Pacing was a mess but can be fixed when marathoned. Making the MC as bland as possible completely destroys the whole point of the route and only makes him look like an idiot. This aspect of the show really gets an unfair amount of heat .Cutting out monologues was a blow but it's still very possible to surmise that he's definitely not badly written from the show itself .All a person has to do is pay attention to his interactions with others in the first season . Because people want fights and aren't looking for many philosophical aspects they over look this and so complain .It took me a rewatch before I finally wrapped my head around things but I know of people who still managed to grab what was going on by the first watch . The major reason for annoyance is because UBW is a very different story from Zero and so people feel too cheated to look past the surface .It wasn't supposed to be one ,but it ended up being a somewhat 2deep4u anime . I'm sure people would have complained about how it ''told'' and didn't ''show'' if it went with monologues though . Cutting out the monologues only makes us think he's making rash decisions and not thinking it thoroughly. The fact that the whole point of the route was about the clashing of ideals between Shirou and Archer, it would only be natural to flesh out the MC's view of his beliefs. |
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| Yeah, is called reverse harem with good-looking characters and bad storyline. That's how it is |
xxxYaoiMasterFeb 20, 2016 12:10 AM
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Aakasaka said: Yeah, is called reverse harem,good-looking characters, bad storyline. That's how it is Shots fired. But actually, they would be bad anime with bad storyline. |
| I mean, most slice of life animes don't even have a storyline. I'd say probably. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
MortalMelancholy said: I mean, most slice of life animes don't even have a storyline. I'd say probably. That's not a good example. SOL anime don't have a huge storyline connecting all the episodes, but each episode does have its own story. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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