| Ok Ok, so everyone loves using that mistake "quote" from Miyazaki, but does anyone know exactly that on earth it means? He said people in the industry "don't spend time watching real people" and can be characterized as "humans who can't stand looking at other humans." What does he mean? "Real people"? Does he mean this as in plot wise and how anime treats its characters, or animation only? Because I HAVE seen this in anime besides for Miyazaki's. So what does he actually mean? |
TomDayFeb 4, 2016 3:51 PM
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| I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . Anime is no longer an art form thanks to the plague that is moe . Not that I give a fuck .Where would I be without Hoozuki Haru ? |
SodiumChlorideFeb 4, 2016 1:32 PM
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
SodiumChloride said: i am actually agree with the whole of your post until this. MOE is not about character traits, it's character design. it has nothing to do with how character act.I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . Anime is no longer an art form thanks to the plague that is moe . OT: Human act based many things, not because the wirter said so. this is also seem what many writer forget. character more often taken one dimensional that make them not feel humanly at all. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| @Kuma Aren't some actions seen as moe ?At least when I watch anime I see anime characters who say some actions are moe/kawaii . Though I guess that's pretty indirect . |
SodiumChlorideFeb 4, 2016 1:43 PM
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| Every defines moe differently, so fuck it. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
SodiumChloride said: @Kuma Aren't some actions seen as moe ?At least when I watch anime I see anime characters who say some actions are moe/kawaii . Though I guess that's pretty indirect . I agree. There is a focus on anime characters doing cutesy actions more these days |
SodiumChloride said: what action that including as moe? CGDCT probably more fit. it's oversimplify face design with big eyes to make face easier and faster to draw, which is make drawing manga easier and faster also make people who talented on story but not really talented in drawing can draw manga. i mean, moe can be madoka magica too, which is complitely different from CGDCT. or just recently anime gakkou gurashi.@Kuma Aren't some actions seen as moe ?At least when I watch anime I see anime characters who say some actions are moe . Though I guess that's pretty indirect . |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| "I have never said most of the shit people quote me for." Miyazaki Hayao |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
Kuma said: SodiumChloride said: what action that including as moe? CGDCT probably more fit. it's oversimplify face design with big eyes to make face easier and faster to draw, which is make drawing manga easier and faster also make people who talented on story but not really talented in drawing can draw manga. i mean, moe can be madoka magica too, which is complitely different from CGDCT. or just recently anime gakkou gurashi.@Kuma Aren't some actions seen as moe ?At least when I watch anime I see anime characters who say some actions are moe . Though I guess that's pretty indirect . Stuff like this : Of course ,I haven't seen this anime but in other stuff that I've watched characters who acted similarly were branded as "moe" by another member of the cast who was an otaku .It's not something I can give a concrete example for though .Just something that I'm sure I've come across . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
SodiumChloride said: I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . This , Late by one minute and one of the main reasons why I love Miyazaki's Works is that his characters act , feel and look human and thus can be more relatable to a certain extent to me |
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| They prefer pandering to otaku over creating characters that feel like real people. something like this SodiumChloride said: I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . |
| Allow me to explain. He meant the was animators are animating people. The movements are unnatural and stiff. He said it's because animators don't go out and actually look at people to understand how the move. |
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Kuma said: SodiumChloride said: i am actually agree with the whole of your post until this. MOE is not about character traits, it's character design. it has nothing to do with how character act.I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . Anime is no longer an art form thanks to the plague that is moe . OT: Human act based many things, not because the wirter said so. this is also seem what many writer forget. character more often taken one dimensional that make them not feel humanly at all. but characters with moe characters design noremally do not act like normal people in any way |
| Miyazaki lookin at Western Forums like "I never said that" |
gabrielrroiz said: i fond non non biyori pretty realistic TBH. at least what i see girl in their age act in my hometown. (i also live in rural place BTW).Kuma said: i am actually agree with the whole of your post until this. MOE is not about character traits, it's character design. it has nothing to do with how character act. OT: Human act based many things, not because the wirter said so. this is also seem what many writer forget. character more often taken one dimensional that make them not feel humanly at all. but characters with moe characters design noremally do not act like normal people in any way |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Svelten said: They prefer pandering to otaku over creating characters that feel like real people. ^ This. It is unfortunate to see that anime producers feel the need to create some wish-fulfilling archetypal characters rather than characters that are actually compelling and able to be related to. |
Waiting patiently for springtime to return! n_n Join the Social Justice Club now! Everyone dedicated to spreading feminism on MAL is welcome to join! Link to my interview! |
| The classic definition of wish-fulfillment. If I like it, it's not wish-fulfillment. This is how it works everytime. I wonder if we'll manage to have a serious and fruitful discussion on this topic someday. Till then, keep the baits rolling. On topic and all... I like Miyazaki's stance, but like any other it's not an absolute. It would be absurd to limit animation to stem from observations of reality. Expanding it, creating new ways of expression, taking advantage of quirks is also worth of praise. |
jal90Feb 4, 2016 3:00 PM
SodiumChloride said: I think he means that rather than paying attention to actual people ,writers nowadays use other anime characters as references .Thus we have a decline in the quality of character presentation . That script-writers have taken escapism to the extreme . Archetypes are so overused that anime characters can be seen as a different breed of humans . Anime is no longer an art form thanks to the plague that is moe . Not that I give a fuck .Where would I be without Hoozuki Haru ? moe? i have heard of that complaint a lot but i haven't seen any recent moe people claim is in almost every anime now. it's not in haikyuu, it's not in prince of stride, OPM, etc. isn't moe just referred to as a genre? do you mean the genre is overtaking anime, or is it in any anime all the time? DmonHiro said: Allow me to explain. He meant the was animators are animating people. The movements are unnatural and stiff. He said it's because animators don't go out and actually look at people to understand how the move. this is what i thought as well. while i agree with this, there are still anime that hold that true, and it usually happens when it goes key (or sakuga). so i don't get how he can be that disgusted with it. |
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| Is this quote even for real? The phrase sounds ridiculous, since he worked on it for all of his life, and people considered him one of the masters in this. |
| Smoke Weed Everyday |
CherryLover said: Svelten said: They prefer pandering to otaku over creating characters that feel like real people. ^ This. It is unfortunate to see that anime producers feel the need to create some wish-fulfilling archetypal characters rather than characters that are actually compelling and able to be related to. Just so you know Sakura Matou comes from a writer's wish fulfillment. She was created to fill the role of the Yamato Nadeshiko. The ultimate women that japanese men are said to desire. Submissive, a good cook, and extremely loyal. She still came out to be a good character. Also, MOE was there from the beginning. In fact MOE helped make the industry. ASTRO from Astro Boy was definitely "moe" by current definitions. Animators do not go out and experience life, but Hayao Miyazaki doesn't have the right to judge when most of his works are adaptations. His characters don't feel like real humans either. They feel like dramatized humans and I mean that in the best way possible, because "real" humans are too nuanced to get attached to in a short movie. I don't think media that lacks the human element get popular. The empathy is missing therefore it stays underground. It's why if you read most unadapted anime you'll notice that most of the characters aren't really likeable. |
| If it is a real quite he is saying that some people who make anime make characters do it to where the characters are removed from how people really act. This is just for the lulz |
TitanAnteus said: Just so you know Sakura Matou comes from a writer's wish fulfillment. She was created to fill the role of the Yamato Nadeshiko. The ultimate women that japanese men are said to desire. Submissive, a good cook, and extremely loyal. She's also slightly extremely crazy . TitanAnteus said: She still came out to be a good character. I suppose she is .Not as developed as a few others in the VN/series though . TitanAnteus said: Also, MOE was there from the beginning. In fact MOE helped make the industry. #MOEMOVEMENTAGAINSTHAYAZAKI TitanAnteus said: ASTRO from Astro Boy was definitely "moe" by current definitions. Cuter than Sakura too . TitanAnteus said: Animators do not go out and experience life, but Hayao Miyazaki doesn't have the right to judge when most of his works are adaptations. His characters don't feel like real humans either. First of all I think you're talking more about the writers ?The animators don't have much to be blamed for .They just draw cartoons right ?Also I'm sure ,or at least I hope that many writers know that their works aren't so artistic but they still churn them out thanks to the creative prison that is capitalism . @TomDay Moe isn't a genre .It's a......style I guess .Bringing out an aesthetic appeal for a character using its design/actions . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
CherryLover said: Svelten said: They prefer pandering to otaku over creating characters that feel like real people. ^ This. It is unfortunate to see that anime producers feel the need to create some wish-fulfilling archetypal characters rather than characters that are actually compelling and able to be related to. but it DOES have "real people" in it. there are real people struggles in anime, and if he means animation, then i guess they wa;lk like real people???????? i mean i seriously don't get what this man is saying. it sounds like nonsense. otakus lap anything up. who cares if they like moe or not. they'll eat it anyway. i know people are complaining about the downfall of anime and moaning about how can it be saved but...i really don't see his point. SodiumChloride said: @TomDay Moe isn't a genre .It's a......style I guess .Bringing out an aesthetic appeal for a character using its design/actions . well i'd love to see it sometime. people keep complaining of it all the time but yet i have shows that repeatedly have it. Sidartha1 said: Is this quote even for real? The phrase sounds ridiculous, since he worked on it for all of his life, and people considered him one of the masters in this. i'm really leaning on this one here. it just makes...0 sense... |
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| It is unclear if Miyazaki's quote is about animation (Miyazaki isn't just an author, he has worked as an animator too), or about behavior. Or maybe both. But a lot of people feel that his quote applies to behavior very much - a lot of anime characters feel too unreal and archetypical, even though they're supposed to be important characters, not just one-note extras. TitanAnteus said: Just so you know Sakura Matou comes from a writer's wish fulfillment. She was created to fill the role of the Yamato Nadeshiko. The ultimate women that japanese men are said to desire. Submissive, a good cook, and extremely loyal. She still came out to be a good character. You haven't read Heaven's Feel route, right? SodiumChloride said: Aren't some actions seen as moe ?At least when I watch anime I see anime characters who say some actions are moe/kawaii . "Moe" is everything cute in a childlike way. A particular action can make you feel moe. (The picture you show is both childish (in liking stuffed toys) and tsundere (which is moe too), for a double dose of moe) A character can be moe though and through. Many Miyazaki's heroines are. Many clumsy anime girls are. Boys can do it too, but that's more rare. A show can mostly consist of moe moments, moe characters and an environment that is nice enough to let them all survive. It's called "moe anime" in this case. Or "cute girls doing cute things" when people avoid relying on japanese words too much. Some people call an art style, popular in the recent decades, "moe". It works very well for the things above, but doesn't produce moe on its own. gabrielrroiz said: but characters with moe characters design noremally do not act like normal people in any way "Normal people" is an anti-esper terrorist group from Zettai Karen Children. Anime characters shouldn't be like them, even if they are terrorists. There are no "normal people" in the real world. |
flannanFeb 5, 2016 12:08 AM
| Rather than using 'real people' as reference, the industry is not devoted more on using other anime as reference for their own creation. In other words, anime is getting more and more banal and bland. They just keep copying and repackaging the same trope and theme of every characters in anime, rather than observing what the real people do in the real world, in order to create a new kind of animation derived from the real people. |
Monstrum said: Rather than using 'real people' as reference, the industry is not devoted more on using other anime as reference for their own creation. In other words, anime is getting more and more banal and bland. They just keep copying and repackaging the same trope and theme of every characters in anime, rather than observing what the real people do in the real world, in order to create a new kind of animation derived from the real people. people can only different to a point. they're going to go through the same thing no matter how many years they thrive. but i guess i can understand. i think everyone here is just complaining of the moe and the stereotypical shounen hero that is really one demensional and goes nowhere. now THAT type of character i understand. that appears way too often in anime (as if it should at all). |
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| I believe it was from the making of The Wind Rises documentary. It just means they are willing to pander to the wants and wish fulfillment of Otaku rather than make something genuinely good that reflects reality. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
LoneWolf said: It just means they are willing to pander to the wants and wish fulfillment of Otaku rather than make something genuinely good that reflects reality. yes, but even the most cleche and average of anime characters still act in a realistic human way. it's just too confusing for me. |
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| It's true. If you base your character off of an archetype, a fictional creation with repetitive, common elements, you'll eventually turn that trope into a cliche, an almost self parody where it is no longer believable. A character in an anime isn't supposed to be a robot that fills a predetermined character archetype, in theory. It's supposed to be a person. They're supposed to act and think like people, even if in an exaggerated manner. That often doesn't happen. For example, if you're writing characters and you think "I want a Tsundere" and design your character based off of the definition of that archetype, rather than thinking of a person who is easily agitated and has a short temper for psychological reasons that can be explored, you'll end up with a character who doesn't act like a person because from their very conception their purpose is to check a bunch of personality boxes and stick to them, rather than act like an actual human being. |
| Anyone who doesn't hate anime hasn't watched enough anime. - Anonymous |
| He means he's 2deep4u. |
KonaKoffeeFeb 25, 2016 11:10 PM
 Banner credit to @turnip |
| It's true.. Anime at this point is too safe, formulaic, predictable.. It's been going on for a while now; rehashing old content under different names. I'm not sure if this is gonna make any sense but anime shouldn't come from anime, it should come from real life, because in the end anime is based on real life.. btw why is this still a thing? |
| Don't take what Miyazaki said into heart, he was just being a senile, grumpy grandpa because of the over saturation of characters that fall into a cliche this past 2 decades. |
Commercial success ≠ Critical acclaim -A. K. Hitler "I'm not here for the crappy story, I am here for the top quality chinese/vietnamese/korean outsourced Nippon animation" -J. F. Cena "My shitpost is better than your shitpost." Me |
MAL people all on this topic be like- |
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| lol, anime characters personality appeal would DIE if they started acting like real teenagers |
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| He's probably talking about how far removed anime characters have become to real humans; becoming instead, ideal waifus/husbandos like boobmaster ecchi things and Kiritos. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
Mamster-P said: lol, anime characters personality appeal would DIE if they started acting like real teenagers Well, the main cast of Haganai and Oregairu are pretty bad people, yet the shows are rather popular. So I wouldn't be so sure of that. |
flannan said: Mamster-P said: lol, anime characters personality appeal would DIE if they started acting like real teenagers Well, the main cast of Haganai and Oregairu are pretty bad people, yet the shows are rather popular. So I wouldn't be so sure of that. im just saying for me lol i don't feel like characters that aren't real have to act real that kinda defeats the purpose for me |
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| I think what he means is that he would actually look at what people were doing and get inspiration from that, he watched his daughter interact with her friends and that helped him think up Spirited Away somehow. A lot of anime today is written by people who just take inspiration solely from other anime without even looking at what people are doing and the anime they make just ends up being usually pretty generic as it's already been done before. |
| It's funny how everyone thinks this only applies to moe, to be able fit his words with their own ideas... How many characters in OPM, TTGL, GTO, Death Note or Fate, just to cite afew critically acclaimed non-moe anime, act or look like a real person would? The anime with realistic characters like Beck are more the exception than the rule. Gar characters are just as fantasized as moe characters, they are also nothing but wish-fullfillment characters. People always bash moe and dere characters and yet fail to realize that 99% of anime characters, even in "serious and deep" anime, are based on archetypes and tropes anyway, most of which existed long before anime. Also I d'ont see why it's important to have realistic characters. It works in his movies, but over-the-top unrealistic character like Onizuka provide entertainment in their own way? I don't think animators "don't know how real humans are", they just don't have any intention of portraying real people. |
YarrowiaFeb 26, 2016 12:35 AM
| Wasn't he talking about character animation in that quote? |
| watching other people's characteristic so the writer can make something similiar from it? or maybe copy it ? i don't want something shit like that. i watch anime to see something new not something shit from real life like that. you want to see characteristic, real romance drama, watch fcking Korean Drama!!! "This is anime, not real life" ^ My Quote |
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