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#1
Jan 27, 2016 1:25 AM

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Do you agree with Glass Reflection/GRARkada's catchphrase?

Just in case:

par·a·mount (păr′ə-mount′)
adj.
1. Of chief concern or importance:

(IDK if there's threads like this but I searched "Ending is Paramount" and got nothing so yeah)
 
#2
Jan 27, 2016 1:27 AM
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Could never be bothered to type up the definition, don't disagree but don't agree. This proves I am a lazy fuck.
 
#3
Jan 27, 2016 1:29 AM

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A strong conclusion is important but I believe in a strong balance throughout.
 
#4
Jan 27, 2016 1:30 AM

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Unless the ending is really bad and / or disappointing, I wouldn't quite call it paramount.
I dropped Toradora from a 10/10 to a 9/10 because of the ending, but it was only a single point lost.
The ending is impotant but not so overstated to the point where I'd call it paramount.
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#5
Jan 27, 2016 1:31 AM

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is there example for it? i don't really know about them.
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#6
Jan 27, 2016 1:35 AM

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Like @Rimpey said, I don't disagree, but neither do I completely agree. I think it a good ending can add to a show, and a bad ending can detract, but it certainly is not paramount. More often than not though, bad stories in general will have a bad ending.
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#7
Jan 27, 2016 1:35 AM

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Kuma said:
is there example for it? i don't really know about them.


Example of what, exactly?

Endings that are paramount?
 
#8
Jan 27, 2016 1:38 AM

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CapitalistGod said:
Kuma said:
is there example for it? i don't really know about them.


Example of what, exactly?

Endings that are paramount?
yes, is there a series that they are very rely on ending to be good? the ending is the only one that worth to watch? seriously, i am confusing here. maybe example can be better explanation.
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#9
Jan 27, 2016 1:40 AM

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Kuma said:
CapitalistGod said:


Example of what, exactly?

Endings that are paramount?
yes, is there a series that they are very rely on ending to be good? the ending is the only one that worth to watch? seriously, i am confusing here. maybe example can be better explanation.


A satisfying ending that concludes well and ties loose ends is what GRArkada usually means when he says this so... I would say the ending of Clannad: After Story
 
Jan 27, 2016 1:55 AM

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Nope, I can understand why it's important for him but I don't care that much about it.
 
Jan 27, 2016 1:57 AM

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As anime watcher solely that doesnt follow manga, I always emphasized ending a bit more.

However, since I always marathon all my anime, I always knew when anime's final episode.
So I kinda anticipated "how you gonna wrap up this anime with 2 or 3 episode left"


I always prefer ending with a bang, then a bit of conclusion (but plz no last fight that only lasted 3 minutes).

Im listing couple of ending and my comment about it.
1. Beelzebub
There was big arc that ended about 10 episode before final. I dunno either studio run out of money or something, but I kinda dislike "filler" in last part. But most annoying is that very last episode.... troll.
2. Hataraku Maou-sama!
Same as above, IIRC last episode kinda like filler
3. Medaka Box Abnormal
Nice conclusion at 2nd last episode. Then the story tell about another badass badguy? at the last episode. eh?!
4. FSN UBW 2nd Season
Super nice conclusion at 2nd last episode. Epilogue in last episode is super neat.
5. Seikon no Qwaser 2nd Season
Series was terrible, but this got awesome ending and made me want to look forward for future series.

Probably there are more other
It might be affect 0.5 or 1 score point, but not more (unless it can me cry like a bitch)
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Jan 27, 2016 2:03 AM

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Not really, infact, I like it better when shows leave a few things unanswered (not unanswerable, implying a plot hole).

Although I guess inconclusiveness, when it's deliberate, can be considered a legitimate kind of ending by itself, so I probably am not answering the real question.
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:56 AM

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It doesn't apply to all anime, the overall presentation matters more.
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:57 AM
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I think school days is a series that rely heavily on the ending, not that it’s a good ending, but a shocking and satisfying one ( i was like YES YES YES )
But yes i kinda think that the ending is very important, it annoys the hell out of me when watching a show and then the ending is total bullshit, when i watched fate/zero i found myself hooked to the screen, but then it ended and i was like WHAAAT, i felt like all the good parts in the anime became meaningless since they leaded to something mediocre ( i,m not saying that the ending of fate/zero is bad, it’s just that i didn’t like it, personnal preferences i suppose, since a lot of people like it )
For me it’s the same feeling when finishing a mario game, all those hard levels and frustrating enemies and all you got in the end is ( your princess is in another castle ), i’m like FUUUUUUCK.
On the other hand shows like FMA B, steins;gate and code geass are highly praised and partially due to their kickass endings ( specially code geass, i was like " what do i do now with my life " )
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:16 AM

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I agree, though probably not as much as Arkada does. A "read the manga" ending doesn't annoy me that much. I'm just sort of disappointed I didn't get to see the rest of the thing animated. Conclusive endings that are packed into the last 10 minutes of the final episode are what really get to me.

ObliviousOkapi said:

Modified by 5hine, Jan 27, 2016 3:34 AM
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:20 AM

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Nope, I don't care about the ending because I don't care about story. As long as there are interesting characters I'm satisfied.
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:42 AM

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5hine said:
I agree, though probably not as much as Arkada does. A "read the manga" ending doesn't annoy me that much. I'm just sort of disappointed I didn't get to see the rest of the thing animated. Conclusive endings that are packed into the last 10 minutes of the final episode are what really get to me.

ObliviousOkapi said:


 
Jan 27, 2016 3:44 AM

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Do you know that one of the more famous anime, Neon Genesis Evangelion, has an absolutely crappy ending? It's so bad that the author made two or three alternate endings (and while they have better budget than the original one, they don't make any more sense. Maybe even less sense.).
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:44 AM
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Probably felt that way with Madoka Magica.
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:47 AM

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Drobie said:
A strong conclusion is important but I believe in a strong balance throughout.

Very well said. I agree completely.
 
Jan 27, 2016 4:22 AM

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ItsMaz said:
Unless the ending is really bad and / or disappointing, I wouldn't quite call it paramount.

This. A good ending could be a strong plus, but it's not essential. A bad – or even worse, incomplete – ending could really ruin a series. At least as regards story-driven series.
 
Jan 27, 2016 9:15 AM

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Ending is very important. It's where all ideas conclude.

But I won't say that a shitty ending necessarily ruin the whole show. It can, but a good show doesn't just build up towards the ending. It creates plenty of worthwhile things in the journey towards it.
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Jan 27, 2016 9:25 AM

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Yeah, I do agree with that. Almost all my favourite shows have stunning endings.
As a conclusion they're obviously very important, unless the show is episodic.
 
Jan 27, 2016 9:26 AM

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It's extremely important to me. I won't lie, bad endings make me salty... sometimes for weeks.
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Jan 27, 2016 9:34 AM

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It's the journey that's more important, not the destination imo.
 
Jan 27, 2016 9:57 AM

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Yes, it is very important. It needs to be logical and impactful. While a bad ending doesn't necessarily ruin a show, it most certainly hurts it.

ItsMaz said:
I dropped Toradora from a 10/10 to a 9/10 because of the ending

Did you watch past the end credits?
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Jan 27, 2016 10:02 AM

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AltoRoark99 said:
Yes, it is very important. It needs to be logical and impactful. While a bad ending doesn't necessarily ruin a show, it most certainly hurts it.

ItsMaz said:
I dropped Toradora from a 10/10 to a 9/10 because of the ending

Did you watch past the end credits?


People always ask me that when I say I was disappointed with the ending :P Every time without fail lol :P
I did indeed watch past the credits.
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Jan 27, 2016 10:02 AM

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Nope.

It's only one thing. There is no reason for it to be the most important thing. Maybe in mystery anime since they rely heavily on the conclusion on the mystery.

But I'm not going to call something shit when I thought it was good because of a bad ending, I'm not that arbitrary.
 
Jan 27, 2016 10:04 AM

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ItsMaz said:

I did indeed watch past the credits.

I felt the same way but then


And I didn't care anymore. And the past credit scenes has some charm to it.
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:49 PM

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I completely agree. I value the ending of a show highly. It determines my enjoyment of the show, 100%. For instance:
Tokyo Ghoul R2: bad show, but I liked the ending. I have fond memories of watching it
Deadman Wonderland: nice show, terrible ending. Wouldn't really recommend it because of that.
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:53 PM

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madoka magika rebellion, i dropped it from an 8 to a 6 because of the ending, same with mirai nikki, though the ending is not paramount when i'm watching the show, it is when scoring the thing (if that makes sense)
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:53 PM

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Drobie said:
A strong conclusion is important but I believe in a strong balance throughout.


Pretty much this.

A good ending can "save" a bad anime. A bad ending can ruin a "ruin a good anime.
However,
A good ending doesn't mean that everything is ok. Or a bad ending doesn't mean I will simply disregard everything else.

Sorry if I don't make any sense.
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Jan 27, 2016 2:55 PM

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The ending is indeed important but in my opinion (or at least I haven't seen) an anime that actually relies so much on its ending enough for it to be the most important thing.
 
Jan 27, 2016 2:58 PM
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They are important because its often the only thing keeping you watching a mediocre/terrible show. The problem compounds itself when you realize most shows are advertisements for the source material which means if you value endings you are going to drop like over 75% of anime you watch. Good shows that are enjoyable to watch without dangling the ending carrot near the viewers face with bad endings are still better than a mediocre show with a good ending.
 
Jan 27, 2016 3:04 PM
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If I'd care that much about endings I wouldn't be watching the shit out of a medium that mostly just teases its source material.

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Jan 27, 2016 3:27 PM

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Yep a great ending can make bad anime enjoyable and memorable but a great start with a shitty ending will always result in a bad anime. I mean look a AZ...
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Jan 27, 2016 3:48 PM

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A ending to me can make or break an anime.

An ending is what ties everything together. Its the goal or the conclusion to what has happen thus far. Imagine if Code Geass or FMAB had bad or not so good endings. You most likely will knock them down a peg.

For example, Shiki ending was bad. Everything before that was just great. But the ending left such a sour taste that I don't want to go back to it. The ending is suppose to make you feel like everything that has happened prior to was worth it. If it doesn't then you can't help but feel like: "What was it all for?" It makes you feel like you could have skipped all this bullshit if this was what you were getting.

So for me the ending would be paramount. It was has the most important job. Which is finishing the story.

Well at least to me.
 
Jan 27, 2016 4:08 PM

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Antearion said:
A ending to me can make or break an anime.

An ending is what ties everything together. Its the goal or the conclusion to what has happen thus far. Imagine if Code Geass or FMAB had bad or not so good endings. You most likely will knock them down a peg.

For example, Shiki ending was bad. Everything before that was just great. But the ending left such a sour taste that I don't want to go back to it. The ending is suppose to make you feel like everything that has happened prior to was worth it. If it doesn't then you can't help but feel like: "What was it all for?" It makes you feel like you could have skipped all this bullshit if this was what you were getting.

So for me the ending would be paramount. It was has the most important job. Which is finishing the story.

Well at least to me.


So you are saying you would completely disregard an anime that had a great run, but a bad ending, and like and anime that had a bad run, and a good ending?

Well, I don't get that.
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But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting.


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Jan 27, 2016 8:10 PM

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AltoRoark99 said:
Yes, it is very important. It needs to be logical and impactful. While a bad ending doesn't necessarily ruin a show, it most certainly hurts it.

ItsMaz said:
I dropped Toradora from a 10/10 to a 9/10 because of the ending

Did you watch past the end credits?


Oh...wait a minute... I watched Toradora twice and never watched this.... lol. There's a f****** end credit scene? Then, again... I was quite satisfied with what happened without watching that end credit scene.. haha!
 
Jan 27, 2016 8:13 PM

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CapitalistGod said:
AltoRoark99 said:
Yes, it is very important. It needs to be logical and impactful. While a bad ending doesn't necessarily ruin a show, it most certainly hurts it.


Did you watch past the end credits?


Oh...wait a minute... I watched Toradora twice and never watched this.... lol. There's a f****** end credit scene? Then, again... I was quite satisfied with what happened without watching that end credit scene.. haha!


You need to watch the end credits man XD
 
Jan 27, 2016 8:58 PM

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It's true for me. I'll drop the score of an anime I was really enjoying quite a bit if the ending wasn't anything special. I've also scored anime much higher than I had them throughout the series if the ending turns out to be terrific. So..yeah, imo the ending is really important.
 
Jan 28, 2016 12:15 AM

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tsudecimo said:
Nope.

It's only one thing. There is no reason for it to be the most important thing. Maybe in mystery anime since they rely heavily on the conclusion on the mystery.

But I'm not going to call something shit when I thought it was good because of a bad ending, I'm not that arbitrary.


Good mystery stories don't just rely on the BIG TWIST. They can still have characters, exciting moments, and building tension not just with the cheap technique of withholding information.

Se7en and Danganronpa are perfect examples.
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Jan 28, 2016 12:54 AM

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TheBrainintheJar said:
tsudecimo said:
Nope.

It's only one thing. There is no reason for it to be the most important thing. Maybe in mystery anime since they rely heavily on the conclusion on the mystery.

But I'm not going to call something shit when I thought it was good because of a bad ending, I'm not that arbitrary.


Good mystery stories don't just rely on the BIG TWIST. They can still have characters, exciting moments, and building tension not just with the cheap technique of withholding information.

Se7en and Danganronpa are perfect examples.

....

Where did I even mention a big twist. I said conclusion as in ending. And where did I say ''rely just on'' I said heavily.
 
Jan 28, 2016 1:52 PM

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katsaroulhs said:
Antearion said:
A ending to me can make or break an anime.

An ending is what ties everything together. Its the goal or the conclusion to what has happen thus far. Imagine if Code Geass or FMAB had bad or not so good endings. You most likely will knock them down a peg.

For example, Shiki ending was bad. Everything before that was just great. But the ending left such a sour taste that I don't want to go back to it. The ending is suppose to make you feel like everything that has happened prior to was worth it. If it doesn't then you can't help but feel like: "What was it all for?" It makes you feel like you could have skipped all this bullshit if this was what you were getting.

So for me the ending would be paramount. It was has the most important job. Which is finishing the story.

Well at least to me.


So you are saying you would completely disregard an anime that had a great run, but a bad ending, and like and anime that had a bad run, and a good ending?

Well, I don't get that.


Oh no I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying, well what I said lol.

First off to me at least a bad anime can't have a good ending. Most people drop an anime they think is bad even before they reach the end.
katsaroulhs said:
Antearion said:
A ending to me can make or break an anime.

An ending is what ties everything together. Its the goal or the conclusion to what has happen thus far. Imagine if Code Geass or FMAB had bad or not so good endings. You most likely will knock them down a peg.

For example, Shiki ending was bad. Everything before that was just great. But the ending left such a sour taste that I don't want to go back to it. The ending is suppose to make you feel like everything that has happened prior to was worth it. If it doesn't then you can't help but feel like: "What was it all for?" It makes you feel like you could have skipped all this bullshit if this was what you were getting.

So for me the ending would be paramount. It was has the most important job. Which is finishing the story.

Well at least to me.


So you are saying you would completely disregard an anime that had a great run, but a bad ending, and like and anime that had a bad run, and a good ending?

Well, I don't get that.


No I'm not saying that. I'm saying... Well what I said lol.

First in my opioion you can't have a good ending to a bad anime. Most people who think that the anime is bad usually drops it. How can you say you have a good ending when most people don't get half way through it? Second "bad and "good" are subjective. There no why to say something is good or bad because depending on who you asked that's the answer they will give you. Third, yes even if the anime had a good run, but had a "bad" ending by my standards I most likely will not watch it again.

For me a ending is suppose to, well end something. If it doesn't then to me its incomplete. Two examples of this. The first being Death Note. I loved Death Note. Thought it was amazing until the end. I had a problem with not the way they choose to end it, but the way the executed it. But never the less it felt like a ending. But as for the second example, Shiki. Had an ending that felt like it was missing one more episode or two. To me your ending should never make you go "WTF?". When you have a list of questions that will never be answered because the ending didn't wrap things up properly. Then yes I will disregard that anime.

And you can say "Oh that was a open ending.". No. Code Geass had a open ending. FMAB had an open ending. Gurren Lagann had open ending. An open ending is susoppse to make you imagine what happened next after the conclusion. You don't know, but all the tools are there for you. A ending like the one in Shiki is not one of those.

And this is why I say the ending is the most important to anime or any story.
 
Jan 28, 2016 1:59 PM

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It depends.
Of course, an ending can absolutely break a show. So it's better when the story arrives somewhere, and this somewhere makes sense.
On the other hand, it happens so rarely, that I am now treating anime and manga as a process - it's good until it's good. Maybe the first half works, but the second doesn't, in that case thanks to the first one. it's just that... well-made endings are too much of a rarity, and manga simply doesn't end.
But it depends on the show whether it's applicable or not.
 
Jan 28, 2016 3:53 PM

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Kuma said:
is there example for it? i don't really know about them.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:14 AM

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tsudecimo said:
TheBrainintheJar said:


Good mystery stories don't just rely on the BIG TWIST. They can still have characters, exciting moments, and building tension not just with the cheap technique of withholding information.

Se7en and Danganronpa are perfect examples.

....

Where did I even mention a big twist. I said conclusion as in ending. And where did I say ''rely just on'' I said heavily.


Mystery/thrillers often rely on a big twist on the ending that's meant to be surprising.

But it needs to do more than just surprise. The strength of these works is that the twists are either meaningful even if you can predict them, or that they're not the focus.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:33 AM

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An ending is important it gives conclusion , resolution and everything comes to place
but The Journey is as much important as the destination for me because If the journey sucked I wouldn't be able to reach my destination without it leaving bad taste in my mouth so will make the end product feel bland
so the ending is important yes but so is the beginning and middle
 
Jan 29, 2016 12:34 AM

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While I think Arkada is a good reviewer, I do think his philosophy on anime critique is slightly flawed in the statement, "ending is paramount."

An ending can separate a masterpiece from a good/great anime, or turn a potential masterpiece into just a great/good anime, but I don't think it is the most important part of dissecting an anime.

The way I see it, if you create a great plot with great characters within a great setting, then you've succeeded at your goal no matter what happens in the end. In the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Life is a journey, not a destination." The same can be applied to storytelling. While the ending is an important and crucial part of storytelling, it is not THE most important part of storytelling.

With that being said, I don't think that necessarily makes Arkada 100% wrong, because when it comes to anime critique, he has every right to invest a deep personal focus on any part of anime because that's what defines him as an anime reviewer. If he thinks that the ending is the most important part of an anime, then so be it. He has every right to believe that and so do other people. Personally speaking though, I find it really shallow to put that much of a focus on the ending. Like I said, the ending is important, but it should not ultimately define the anime.
 
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