| I think it's rated properly. It's definitely got a vocal fanbase on most gaming boards. It could use more popularity, but I think that will happen as more titles get released. |
| I have not found that to be the case. |
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| With Zero Time Dilemma coming this year, I wouldn't be surprised if it got a sudden burst of popularity. Don't think it's underrated though. |
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| Nah, it's quite popular, not as popular as Ace Attorney or Professor Layton, which I'd say it's comparable to, but still popular on other forums I browse That being said, I've only met two other people in real life whose played it. Can't wait for ZTD, though! |
Status_EffectJan 1, 2016 2:55 PM
| I think it's overrated. While 999 was great, VLR was terrible. And for games that have story as a vocal selling point, consistency is key. If you fuck up one mainline title's story, you fuck up the soon-to-be sequels as well. |
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| It's overrated, for sure. I enjoyed 999 and VLR, but having to play VLR about 10 or so times over to get the ending was a waste of time. |
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| Fuck yes. But it's more of a personal bias being in my top 3 favourite games of all time. Absolutely amazing and engaging story in 999. Not only did VLR meet 999's expectation's, it surpassed it. A shame that it bombed in Japan though. But thankfully us Westerners made ZTD a thing. |
"Hi!" |
| Aside from some clever thematic math puzzles, I think I liked 999 better when it was called Ever 17. It's okay where it is. |
| I think it is. But I kinda hope it keeps its small fanbase. Don't want it to end up like DR. |
| Its not even popular enough to be called overrated so you can't really say that. Just wait till the third game comes out and then we will see. |
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| Is well regarded in general I believe, no need to call it "underrated" or "overrated". I liked VLR more than 999 overall, the characters in particular were a lot more memorable to me (I don't think I actually liked anyone in 999 while I really enjoyed Sigma, Tenmyouji and Phi interactions/dialog), puzzles were far more fun, the ability to go back to certain points in time was a huge plus (more so since VLR was larger than 999) and the pacing was handled a lot better in VLR since it had twists and important/interesting information in every route, making it far more enjoyable in the long run. Only parts where I believe 999 triumphed over VLR were the atmosphere and (maybe) the OST. |
| One can argue it is underplayed -but definitely not underrated- rpgfan 9/10 ign 9.5/10 |
semianonymousJan 2, 2016 9:01 AM
| I think it is underated, but because of weak advertisement. |
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ExTamplier said: I think it is underated, but because of weak advertisement. I agree. VLR is my favourite game but I feel more hyped for Tales of Berseria as ZTD hardly gets any advertisement. |
"Hi!" |
| I think its pretty fairly rated granted its blatantly stolen story and second entry. Pretty enjoyable series with that said. Hope the third installment is good enough to make up for VLR. |
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| Unappreciated/not well enough know, maybe. Underrated, no. I've honestly never hear anybody be especially negative about 999 and it's generally viewed as on of the top ds games as far as I know. |
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Latent said: Aside from some clever thematic math puzzles, I think I liked 999 better when it was called Ever 17. It's okay where it is. I felt this deep in my soul, ouch. To be fair, it's like Uchikoshi took pieces of e17 and r11 to further build upon them in ZE, as if he couldn't quite let go of the unfinished Infinity series (I never played Never7 so idk about that one). It would be nice if they crossed over somehow in the next installment, but that's mostly just wishful thinking on my part. @OP 999 is pretty much unknown outside of it's small, passionate fanbase. Definitely underplayed. Maybe because of its platform and how the target audience for Nintendo is small children, idk. |
| When you compare 999 and zero escape to other (hybrid) visual novels in the west then they're actually among the most popular. |
| I wouldn't say underrated, it just doesn't get a lot of attention compared to "bigger" titles. It's to be expected though since it's only a VN series. |
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CaimTheJoyful said: I think it's overrated. While 999 was great, VLR was terrible. And for games that have story as a vocal selling point, consistency is key. If you fuck up one mainline title's story, you fuck up the soon-to-be sequels as well. I partially agree with this statement, 999 was amazing, but i hated how they turned the Symbol of innocence in the series (Clover) into shoddy fanservice. Alongside the fact that i felt the overall writing was lackluster. For instance the Surprise Villain from 999 was MUCH MUCH more memorable then Zero Escapes That and it was much more easier to call/less of a surprise. Alongside the Numerous plottwists involved in Zero Escape ala |
Lightshade49Jan 3, 2016 12:05 PM
| Argue? Nah Too lazy For That... Are You Ready!~Gulcasa |
| >Symbol of innocence >Clover Lotus was fanservice herself so meh. Hardly a complaint. Didn't she kill everyone in a certain ending? She's someone far from what I'd call a 'symbol of innocence'. Also it's unclear due to your wording, but you state that VLR's writing was inferior(lolno) to 999's, yet you admit it has more plot twists. I know plot twists =/= better writing, but it seems slightly contradictory. |
"Hi!" |
ExtraCheeky said: >Symbol of innocence >Clover Lotus was fanservice herself so meh. Hardly a complaint. Didn't she kill everyone in a certain ending? She's someone far from what I'd call a 'symbol of innocence'. Also it's unclear due to your wording, but you state that VLR's writing was inferior(lolno) to 999's, yet you admit it has more plot twists. I know plot twists =/= better writing, but it seems slightly contradictory. Yes lotus was fanservice, and it was duable fanservice on a character with a decently interesting character. Alice was ok, but her constant complaining got more im my nerves than anything else. (While some of it was justified, it more often than not felt like a nuisance) Yes Clover was a sign of innocence within the dark game, which was why her Freakout and Killing was a shock to many (as that was the point). Of course preference with writing goes to each of our opinions. and yes plot twists =/= better writing (or at least not the major portion of good writing) the writing in 999 (IMO) felt more immersive and a decent bit more horrifying. The incident that happens at the beginning of 999 is much scarier than the incident in zero escape with Just a slight sidenote i felt after finishing Zero Escape was that it felt like it was just trying to setup for the sequel, rather than being it's own (fun) game. While 999 felt like it could be a standalone and still be downright enjoyable. Otherwise though i still stand that 999 > Zero Escape As my final opinion |
| Argue? Nah Too lazy For That... Are You Ready!~Gulcasa |
Lightshade49 said: the writing in 999 (IMO) felt more immersive and a decent bit more horrifying. Part of this is because Uchikoshi's company wouldn't allow him to go as dark in zlr as he wanted it to be. They took a survey and asked people why they didn't play 999 bc they were trying to get more people to get vlr. The general response was it was too scary. Of course, vlr ended up doing worse in sales, resulting in that long hiatus. Lightshade49 said: Just a slight sidenote i felt after finishing Zero Escape was that it felt like it was just trying to setup for the sequel, rather than being it's own (fun) game. While 999 felt like it could be a standalone and still be downright enjoyable. That was the intention. Originally, 999 was supposed to be a standalone game. Vlr was created as a setup for the sequel. It's by no means a bad game, but it's good to be aware of the circumstances surrounding why it came out the way it did. ZTD will cater to western fans, so hopefully this means Uchikoshi has some of his freedom back. He's expressed he'll bring some of that fear and tension of the original into the sequel. The promo image looks promising. |
CMYKJan 4, 2016 1:33 AM
| One major problem with VLR is the fact that it requires you to finish all alternating routes to access the true route. Because most of the alternating routes result in death, the emotional impact lessens and makes the actual deaths that matter feel less important. After sitting through Alice's 8th death or so, I lost all feeling of dramatic tension and stakes for the game because it happened way too many times for me to care. Another major problem with VLR were the plot twists. While 999 had crazy plot twists as well, they were built up, yet subtle enough to catch you off guard. They were also self-contained. Given that it was initially supposed to be a stand-alone title, it makes sense why. VLR was ridiculous in comparison though, throwing plot twist after plot twist without even letting the player catch up or piece together the situation. YOU'RE ON THE MOON. EVIL CULT. THE WORLD IS ENDING. VIRUS THAT MAKES YOU COMMIT SUICIDE. YOU'RE A ROBOT. THOSE TWO BROADS WERE CRYOGENICALLY FROZEN FROM THE PAST. IT'S ACTUALLY 2076, NOT 2026. THERE'S A BOMB IN THE BUILDING. Like shit, I thought I was reading fanfic for a moment. Another flaw was that some of VLR's puzzles were not thematically related to the game like most of 999's puzzles were. They were just obstacles for the sake of being obstacles. A good game integrates gameplay to tell a story, express a motif, or imply a theme, and most of VLR didn't do that. 999 had you applying numbers through base 9. 999 made you play sudoku which is a game revolving around 9. Escaping the freezer room brought up the subject of ice-9. Etc. Etc. The writer turned Clover into a retard, and it's a shame considering how strong she was as a character in 999 (I actually teared up a bit when I gave Clover a clover). Quark's route could have possibly been the greatest thing to happen in the series but Sigma surviving because of willpower was pretty dumb. The poison should have killed him. It was injected into his blood and circulating through his body. He was actually exhibiting signs of dying. But suddenly crushing his arm means he can survive? After a fucking injection? That's not how it works. His survival took all meaning of sacrifice and good-will and drained it down the bathtub. The 3D models suck in comparison to 2D sprites and ended up making animations too stiff and mechanical. There was also more detail with the Sprite art. Phi was a cardboard heroine and whenever the writer tried to push her "i liek food!!!!" trait, just to show that she wasn't a commanding bitch, only made me cringe and question whether she had aspergers or not. Alice had the potential to be a good character but that potential is never tapped seeing as she's killed so many times early on in most routes. I was really looking forward to VLR after playing 999. However, my experience with VLR was so underwhelming that I'm no longer invested with the series anymore. |
PeenusWeenusCaimJan 4, 2016 4:39 AM
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Lightshade49 said: I partially agree with this statement, 999 was amazing, but i hated how they turned the Symbol of innocence in the series (Clover) into shoddy fanservice. I wouldn't call someone who goes batshit at the first sight of murder a "symbol of innocence". The only person I would call that in the entire series would be Luna, and even that is stretching it. For instance the Surprise Villain from 999 was MUCH MUCH more memorable then Zero Escapes Not really. The twist itself was more memorable (how he/she changes his eyes and expressions making him/her look inhuman is great, I agree) but the villain in VLR is more memorable because he/she is in your face all the time being a straight up asshole and in games like this, when you hope for an unexpected bad guy that plays dumb to appear, having one that always means what he/she says was a breath of fresh air (and the actual twist). Yes lotus was fanservice, and it was duable fanservice on a character with a decently interesting character Lotus was never interesting at any point in the plot. She was a mother good with computers that had huge tits. That's it, that was her whole character for the entire game, fanservice just like Alice (except the latter had a more important reason to be there) Yes Clover was a sign of innocence within the dark game, which was why her Freakout and Killing was a shock to many (as that was the point). The clover freakout ending was great for the shock value and all, but that's it. Going from a scared girl that is supposedly "innocent" and pull a 180º and kill everybody with no evidence is not good. Is it shocking and brutal? Yes, of course. But I wouldn't call it well written. the writing in 999 (IMO) felt more immersive and a decent bit more horrifying. The incident that happens at the beginning of 999 is much scarier than the incident in zero escape True, the atmosphere in 999 and it's sense of fear and despair is better done than in VLR (I don't think anybody will disagree with this) Just a slight sidenote i felt after finishing Zero Escape was that it felt like it was just trying to setup for the sequel, rather than being it's own (fun) game. This is true again. 999 felt like it was done with once you complete it and left only a few things open in case it was succesful enough to receive a proper sequel while VLR needs the sequel to feel "complete", so to speak. However (like Tenmyouji says at the end), the destiny of those in the VLR's timeline are done and their issues resolved, since the changes that happen in the next game will not alter the lifes of those that remain, so is while the overall plot is not solved, the one in this game is done with. Um......................How much puzzle/VN games have you played? Unless he is talking about 999 in particular, he is right. VLR is particularly large (like twice the size of the original) and the original had a decent length already. CaimtheJoyful said: One major problem with VLR is the fact that it requires you to finish all alternating routes to access the true route. You needed the normal ending in 999 to access the true end though. If you try to go down the route for the true end from the start, it locks you out. Because most of the alternating routes result in death, the emotional impact lessens and makes the actual deaths that matter feel less important. Same thing happened in 999. Pretty much all the endings aside from the last end with the death of either Junpei (and a couple more) or almost everyone. You could argue that since VLR is larger, the amount of times that happens is bigger, but then again they're not that many and in terms of percentage they're similar. While 999 had crazy plot twists as well, they were built up, yet subtle enough to catch you off guard. They were also self-contained. Given that it was initially supposed to be a stand-alone title, it makes sense why. VLR was ridiculous in comparison though, throwing plot twist after plot twist without even letting the player catch up or piece together the situation. They were two kind of different games, with VLR having a bigger scope. 999 builded towards three major twists: the murderer, the mastermind and the true nature of the 9 door. Since it was self-contained and a shorter title, they could do with only concentrating in those twists. VLR, however, had characters from the original as well as new ones, so not only it had to explain the circumstances behind them being there (such as Alice), but also build up towards new twists with the new introduced characters that also needed to make sense. This leads us to having different routes, each one having us deal with different characters to know their motivations and backstory, as well as building up for the big twists (murderer/villain, mastermind, why is this happening...). Each route had a different kind of revelation that, while it would probably not make a lot of sense if it's your first bit of information, was supposed to be a piece that would later be useful or understandable when you finished everything and both reward and hook the player into keep playing the game to finally understand what is going on. Another flaw was that some of VLR's puzzles were not thematically related to the game like most of 999's puzzles were. They were just obstacles for the sake of being obstacles. Puzzles in both games were obstacles for the sake of being obstacles and to change the flow of the game so that it was not a 100% VN, let's not kid ourselves here. It's cool and all that 999 had themes surrounding the number 9, but is nothing to throw fireworks about and doesn't change how much of a chore (or fun) they were to play or guess their answer. The writer turned Clover into a retard, and it's a shame considering how strong she was as a character in 999 (I actually teared up a bit when I gave Clover a clover) Killing everyone at the first sight of trouble when you have no decisive evidence of who the killer is, in all honestly, going full retard. Clover was never a "strong" character in either of the games, just one who acted that way for the sake of coveniently making a shocking ending. The 3D models suck in comparison to 2D sprites and ended up making animations too stiff and mechanical. There was also more detail with the Sprite art While I agree, that's kinda subjective. I thought 3D models had their charm too. Phi was a cardboard heroine and whenever the writer tried to push her "i liek food!!!!" trait, just to show that she wasn't a commanding bitch, only made me cringe and question whether she had aspergers or not. Phi was tons better than most of the characters in either game. Her back and forth with Sigma because of her rudeness and pragmatic views was hilarious. Better having a "commanding bitch" than a bunch of submissive or boring characters. Alice had the potential to be a good character but that potential is never tapped seeing as she's killed so many times early on in most routes. Being killed doesn't make you a bad character. Alice had a decent amount of screentime, the problem with her is that they made her Lotus 2.0 (She had a stronger reason to be there than her at least). |
GoldenSaltPillarJan 4, 2016 6:40 AM
| As much as I love 999, some parts simply pissed me off. It tends to be the parts where characters bring up random facts and trivia which magically connect to the plot. Like where Seven talks about All Ice, Lotus about that illusionary dog thing (which led to the famous funyarinpa scene) etc. I felt that all the facts and trivia were presented in VLR were in a much better manner; in a way that didn't feel too 'magical', some how conveniently linking in with the plot. 999 had a stronger cast but the banter between Sigma and Phi blows them out of the water. |
"Hi!" |
| Zero Escape is better than both Danganronpa and Ace Attorney, which are games of a similar genre from the same country. Those two are way more hyped than Zero Escape is, so yeah, it's underrated. Also obligatory comment: Fuck u Caim. VLR is amazing. |
SH4kun said: You needed the normal ending in 999 to access the true end though. If you try to go down the route for the true end from the start, it locks you out. SH4kun said: The big difference here is that three of the bad endings are optional and only one ending is required to access the true ending. Because the true ending ends with no deaths, the only time you actually experience death is the safe ending. Nothing is lessened here. VLR has you playing through nine bad endings just to get the true ending. Same thing happened in 999. Pretty much all the endings aside from the last end with the death of either Junpei (and a couple more) or almost everyone. You could argue that since VLR is larger, the amount of times that happens is bigger, but then again they're not that many and in terms SH4kun said: Except in some cases, some revelations and twists just happen and aren't really elaborated in the game at all. For example, VLR pushes the fact that radical-6 is edging humanity on the verge of extinction. How? An outbreak from a Mars test site. Who? Evil cult. Okay but why? Why is a virus that makes people commit suicide being harbored in a test site for Mars? How did an evil cult gain so much power all the while receiving little to no mention in 999? How come it's never mentioned in Sigma's past either? Also cloning technology? Are we just going to have to accept that? Being on the moon makes sense (it's explained that humans study towards living in space in the early years) but some ideas just occur with no explanatory basis. I get it's the future but it's not that far into the future to make all these scientific pipedreams believable and Zero Escape usually has some pseudoscience explanation for the big concepts that are acted upon.VLR, however, had characters from the original as well as new ones, so not only it had to explain the circumstances behind them being there (such as Alice), but also build up towards new twists with the new introduced characters that also needed to make sense. This leads us to having different routes, each one having us deal with different characters to know their motivations and backstory, as well as building up for the big twists (murderer/villain, mastermind, why is this happening...). Each route had a different kind of revelation that, while it would probably not make a lot of sense if it's your first bit of information, was supposed to be a piece that would later be useful or understandable when you finished everything and both reward and hook the player into keep playing the game to finally understand what is going on. SH4kun said: Don't change the goalposts here. VLR had puzzles that had little connection to the overall presentation of the story or themes. Obstacles for the sake of being obstacles. 999 had puzzles that, while also being obstacles, relate to the overall story, theme of 9, and presented a message. The creators put a lot of effort into the puzzles of 999 and while you may see it as nothing more than puzzles, these little tidbits play a big role into the overall presentation of the game. Puzzles in both games were obstacles for the sake of being obstacles and to change the flow of the game so that it was not a 100% VN, let's not kid ourselves here. It's cool and all that 999 had themes surrounding the number 9, but is nothing to throw fireworks about and doesn't change how much of a chore (or fun) they were to play or guess their answer. SH4kun said: Are you implying the idea that she was only included in 999 for the sake of the axe ending? Clover was not strong in the sense of being strong (she isn't) but strong as a fully realized character in 999. She had complexities. She had a motivation. She had personality. And she develops as a character, gradually opening up as you progress through the actual routes in 999. Killing everyone at the first sight of trouble when you have no decisive evidence of who the killer is, in all honestly, going full retard. Clover was never a "strong" character in either of the games, just one who acted that way for the sake of coveniently making a shocking ending. SH4kun said: Her rude and pragmatic personality is exactly the problem, regardless of whether she was entertaining or not. The ambidex game is entirely based on obtaining trust to win yourself some points. While she acted incredibly analytical and calculating of the situation, it's amazing how she misses the core point, acting like a rude and pragmatic bitch throughout most of the routes. It's feels incredibly inconsistent, especially in a series that pushes the themes of trust and paranoia. Ace in 999 was the big baddie but even he knew that he had to put up the nice guy act to get around the doors. Phi was tons better than most of the characters in either game. Her back and forth with Sigma because of her rudeness and pragmatic views was hilarious. Better having a "commanding bitch" than a bunch of submissive or boring characters. SH4kun said: I'm not saying that killing her off made her a bad character. I'm saying that she could have been a great character if she didn't die all the time for radical-6 plot convenience.Being killed doesn't make you a bad character. Alice had a decent amount of screentime, the problem with her is that they made her Lotus 2.0 (She had a stronger reason to be there than her at least). Vanisher said: Nigga go home.Zero Escape is better than both Danganronpa and Ace Attorney, which are games of a similar genre from the same country. Those two are way more hyped than Zero Escape is, so yeah, it's underrated. Also obligatory comment: Fuck u Caim. VLR is amazing. |
PeenusWeenusCaimJan 4, 2016 3:16 PM
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| I'm home already bro. Also are you really complaining that you had to do all the routes in VLR? sure some sucked (like alice's) but they were all 100% different content, in 999 you had to go through all the fucking rooms over and over again and even if you knew the passwords and such the game didn't gave a shit and forced you to search for all of the clues almost every time. |
| It's fairly illogical and unfair to criticize VLR for not answering all the questions where it had a clear intent of having a pre-sequel. Especially when all the questions you're asking for take place in the gap between 999 and VLR. And correct me if I was wrong. But wasn't the overall point of the puzzles in VLR was to put them in a situation of urgency (or something along those lines) and to... stimulate their brains to enhance the effects of jumping through different timelines? I'd say those reasons greatly link with the story of the game. |
"Hi!" |
Vanisher said: Zero Escape is better than both Danganronpa and Ace Attorney, which are games of a similar genre from the same country. Those two are way more hyped than Zero Escape is, so yeah, it's underrated. Also obligatory comment: Fuck u Caim. VLR is amazing. I personally like all of them almost equally. Investigations 2, SDR2 and VLR are the best from each series IMO. TR-8RCaim said: The big difference here is that three of the bad endings are optional and only one ending is required to access the true ending. Because the true ending ends with no deaths, the only time you actually experience death is the safe ending. Nothing is lessened here. VLR has you playing through nine bad endings just to get the true ending. You are talking as if you knew how to trigger the true end and what route do you have to go to get it beforehand. You don't. It's fairly easy to assume that before getting the true ending, you also got a bad end or two along the way since in this game you don't win or lose points and just explore doors with no concrete proof of what each one has, which means the "emotional impact" also lessens in that case. Also, in 999 you don't really need additional information that is not in the normal or true ending, while in VLR each ending contains a piece of it that needs to be brought to light so that the player connects all of them before the true ending. Sure, they could make it so that you go for the true end straight away, but then the final twists and reveals would lose all purpose because you have no clue what they're talking about. You're also forgetting the part where death is an integral plot point and the main reason why Phi and Sigma can move to other timelines. Except in some cases, some revelations and twists just happen and aren't really elaborated in the game at all. For example, VLR pushes the fact that radical-6 is edging humanity on the verge of extinction. How? An outbreak from a Mars test site. Who? Evil cult. Okay but why? Why is a virus that makes people commit suicide being harbored in a test site for Mars? How did an evil cult gain so much power all the while receiving little to no mention in 999? How come it's never mentioned in Sigma's past either? Also cloning technology? Are we just going to have to accept that? Being on the moon makes sense (it's explained that humans study towards living in space in the early years) but some ideas just occur with no explanatory basis. I get it's the future but it's not that far into the future to make all these scientific pipedreams believable and Zero Escape usually has some pseudoscience explanation for the big concepts that are acted upon. Most of those are issues that will probably be the main focus in the sequel that is set between 999 and VLR that is comming out this year (some of those the game literally tells you at the very end that you are going to investigate that by going there). The rest of your complains you basically answered them yourself with the whole futuristic setting in which you have to apply suspension of disbelief to eat that up. Don't change the goalposts here. VLR had puzzles that had little connection to the overall presentation of the story or themes. Obstacles for the sake of being obstacles. 999 had puzzles that, while also being obstacles, relate to the overall story, theme of 9, and presented a message. The creators put a lot of effort into the puzzles of 999 and while you may see it as nothing more than puzzles, these little tidbits play a big role into the overall presentation of the game. It's not about changing the goalposts. The in-game explanation of why both the puzzles in VLR and 999 happen is because of a sudden realization or discovery boost the chances to make a succesful move using morphogenetic fields. In 999 is necessary for Junpei to develop it to a point where he can send a message back in time, while in VLR is necessary to give and develop both Sigma and Phi's powers. The outside explanation of why that happens is probably because they just wanted to have something that changed the flow of the game so that it wasn't 100% text, same stuff with the Betrayal/Ally choices. Being related to the number 9 is a cool touch, but that's it. In the end they're still obstacles that are still boring or fun to play as regardless of their themes. Are you implying the idea that she was only included in 999 for the sake of the axe ending? Clover was not strong in the sense of being strong (she isn't) but strong as a fully realized character in 999. She had complexities. She had a motivation. She had personality. And she develops as a character, gradually opening up as you progress through the actual routes in 999. I'm not implying she was included because of that ending, just the fact that the ending itself was done for the shock value, nothing else. She had complexities, motivations and a personality in VLR as well, whether you like them more now or not is irrelevant. And no, I don't regard her as a strong character in neither of those games even thought she had all of those things because they just seemed superficial and weren't explored well enough in comparison to other characters. Her rude and pragmatic personality is exactly the problem, regardless of whether she was entertaining or not. The ambidex game is entirely based on obtaining trust to win yourself some points. While she acted incredibly analytical and calculating of the situation, it's amazing how she misses the core point, acting like a rude and pragmatic bitch throughout most of the routes. It's feels incredibly inconsistent, especially in a series that pushes the themes of trust and paranoia. Ace in 999 was the big baddie but even he knew that he had to put up the nice guy act to get around the doors. Phi, while going commando and being very sincere to the point of being incredible rude still made really valid and interesting points all around, making it so that whether you liked her or not people around her still went along with what she said for the most part. And you are somewhat forgetting that even when she put those things in place and told other people to trust them while pairing up with Sigma, she still told you from time to time that you should choose betray when you were alone with her, so is not like she didn't put a "nice guy" act and dropped when it suited her best. I'm not saying that killing her off made her a bad character. I'm saying that she could have been a great character if she didn't die all the time for radical-6 plot convenience. And I'm saying that dying all the time because of radical-6 convenience (that mayber triggers in her first because of the All-Ice in her body) doesn't make her bad. Again, she had the same or more screentime that Lotus and she even opens up to you in her ending a lot more than the former ever did, the problem with her was that they focused on her either having a very unpleasant personality and being walking fanservice. ExtraCheeky said: And correct me if I was wrong. But wasn't the overall point of the puzzles in VLR was to put them in a situation of urgency (or something along those lines) and to... stimulate their brains to enhance the effects of jumping through different timelines? I'd say those reasons greatly link with the story of the game. That's pretty much the point in-game they make, yeah. Sudden realization of certain answers boost the chances of jumping from one timeline to another and the final trigger is death/inminent danger, which also explains why there are so many endings that have someone dying and why "memento mori" is a central theme in the game unlike 999 where it was fear and despair instead. The reason that Tenmyouji and Clover are there is also for the sake of enhancing and developing Sigma and Phi MF capabilities faster. |
GoldenSaltPillarJan 5, 2016 11:10 AM
| I want to read what you guys are arguing about, but your posts are so damn long. |
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| Underrated? Who cares? Most people that played agree they are amazing games. Underplayed is the real problem. Thats the reason the trilogy is taking so much time to end. Cant blame gamers, the game is only on handhelds and we have to admit its a niche genre. Anyway, hoping for an amazing third game. |
Vanisher said: Zero Escape is better than both Danganronpa and Ace Attorney, which are games of a similar genre from the same country. Those two are way more hyped than Zero Escape is, so yeah, it's underrated. Also obligatory comment: Fuck u Caim. VLR is amazing. Lol. I love 999, but VLR is absolute shit compared to it. The writing is dumbed down to mediocre anime levels and the characters, aside from Phi and Luna, are abysmal. It's like saying AJ is your favourite AA game. Everyone else has already complained about everything else I complain about. Also, *you. |
Status_EffectJan 5, 2016 6:02 PM
| tfw the writing was more complex than 999 but w/e. |
"Hi!" |
| I've only played 999, great game but after getting the knife ending I was like wth...I played it until I got the true ending but during that time, it was almost as if I was in a trance...couldn't stop thinking about it...it was so aborbing. Most people probably wouldn't invest that kind of time and effort after getting the knife ending. After reading some of the posts here, I'm not sure if I should bother with the sequels. |
bk-201 said: After reading some of the posts here, I'm not sure if I should bother with the sequels. How about you play it yourself and come to your own opinion? You'll most likely enjoy it the same way the majority of people did. |
SuperRed said: bk-201 said: After reading some of the posts here, I'm not sure if I should bother with the sequels. How about you play it yourself and come to your own opinion? You'll most likely enjoy it the same way the majority of people did. Yeah, I might do. tbh, I'm also hesitant given how deeply absorbing 999 was. Not a critiicism but at one point, it literally was the only thing on my mind. Playing these games seems to require a substantial emotional investment. lol. |
| Any fans of Zero Escape should check out the Root Double visual novel kickstarter because of the similar premise, and because: "Takumi Nakazawa (director/producer/original concept) has worked as the director of the Infinity series (Never7, Ever17, Remember11), and participated in their writing alongside his old partner Kotaro Uchikoshi (Zero Escape series [999: Nine Hours, Nine Doors, Nine Persons, Virtue's Last Reward]). He has also directed games such as I/O, Myself;Yourself, Secret Game: Killer Queen, and Rebellions: Secret Game 2nd Stage." Kickstarter here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sekaiproject/root-double-before-crime-after-days-xtend-edition/description Root Double's awesome opening here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdwKxuogBbk Please support if you can~ the digital version is just $30 for a visual novel that's over 50 hours long, so it's worth. I also made a separate thread for this, so you can go comment on that one too to increase visibility. |
LightBladeNovaJan 6, 2016 11:19 AM
| "Beyond the veil of cherry blossom petals blown by the wind - almost like their promised reunion - Feelings pile up with the passage of time: once the torrent of emotions comes rushing down, what is the spectacle that awaits?" |
Toasty_One said: Vanisher said: Zero Escape is better than both Danganronpa and Ace Attorney, which are games of a similar genre from the same country. Those two are way more hyped than Zero Escape is, so yeah, it's underrated. Also obligatory comment: Fuck u Caim. VLR is amazing. Lol. I love 999, but VLR is absolute shit compared to it. The writing is dumbed down to mediocre anime levels and the characters, aside from Phi and Luna, are abysmal. It's like saying AJ is your favourite AA game. Everyone else has already complained about everything else I complain about. Also, *you. >implying Tenmyouji was a bad character |
SH4kun said: The difference here is that those three endings are states of failure. A game over. A result of ineptitude and entirely optional. Generally, the impact of death as a failure state is much less meaningful than the impact of death as an narrative event when you successfully progress through a game. You are talking as if you knew how to trigger the true end and what route do you have to go to get it beforehand. You don't. It's fairly easy to assume that before getting the true ending, you also got a bad end or two along the way since in this game you don't win or lose points and just explore doors with no concrete proof of what each one has, which means the "emotional impact" also lessens in that case. SH4kun said: Forget what? I'm aware that the concept of repeating deaths is integral to the plot but that's still not going to deter the critique that the repeating deaths lessen the emotional impact and dramatic tension, both of which are two very important elements a game based on mystery, suspense, and escape must have. Also, in 999 you don't really need additional information that is not in the normal or true ending, while in VLR each ending contains a piece of it that needs to be brought to light so that the player connects all of them before the true ending. Sure, they could make it so that you go for the true end straight away, but then the final twists and reveals would lose all purpose because you have no clue what they're talking about. You're also forgetting the part where death is an integral plot point and the main reason why Phi and Sigma can move to other timelines. SH4kun said: Then I'd argue that it's bad writing. A good narrative work should tell a complete and cohesive story without having to reference other works (especially a work that was real close to being non-existent) for the audience to understand several concepts and ideas. Most of those are issues that will probably be the main focus in the sequel that is set between 999 and VLR that is comming out this year (some of those the game literally tells you at the very end that you are going to investigate that by going there). The rest of your complains you basically answered them yourself with the whole futuristic setting in which you have to apply suspension of disbelief to eat that up. SH4kun said: I believe that's incorrect. I'm reviewing VLR's right now and puzzles were never mentioned by Akane as a means to heighten Sigma and Phi's powers. She had them infected with Radical-6 and experience danger to heighten their "processing power". She also made them play the ambidex game in order to help them better retain memory when jumping over multiple timelines but never does she mention the puzzles. Even in 999, it isn't sudden realizations or discovery that strengthens their powers, it's the sense of danger. The puzzles were there so Espers could transmit the solutions over towards the receivers. In VLR, the puzzles are just there for the sake of being there. In 999, the puzzles have an actual plot-related purpose with dandy messages that relate to the theme of the game. While you may dismiss 999's puzzles as just puzzles by the end of the day, it's those little subtleties that can show a game's charm and affect the overall presentation.It's not about changing the goalposts. The in-game explanation of why both the puzzles in VLR and 999 happen is because of a sudden realization or discovery boost the chances to make a succesful move using morphogenetic fields. In 999 is necessary for Junpei to develop it to a point where he can send a message back in time, while in VLR is necessary to give and develop both Sigma and Phi's powers. The outside explanation of why that happens is probably because they just wanted to have something that changed the flow of the game so that it wasn't 100% text, same stuff with the Betrayal/Ally choices. Being related to the number 9 is a cool touch, but that's it. In the end they're still obstacles that are still boring or fun to play as regardless of their themes. SH4kun said: Irrelevant? My criticism is on how the writer dumbed down Clover's complexities, motivations, and personality in VLR. Of course I'm not going to like VLR Clover, it's why I'm criticizing in the first place. If you're just going to motion it as irrelevant, why even bother discussing in the first place?I'm not implying she was included because of that ending, just the fact that the ending itself was done for the shock value, nothing else. She had complexities, motivations and a personality in VLR as well, whether you like them more now or not is irrelevant. And no, I don't regard her as a strong character in neither of those games even thought she had all of those things because they just seemed superficial and weren't explored well enough in comparison to other characters. SH4kun said: Except it's really hard to tell if that's Phi genuinely saying that as part of her character or the game simply making you second guess yourself like in every other AB round. The writer does this shit all the time, even in 999. "Door 7 and Door 8 are the optimal paths. You'll only leave two people behind. Don't go through door 3 though because you'll leave three people behind. Oh btw, you won't be with Akane if you go through Door 7 or Door 8. But you can be with her if you go to Door 3. Did I mention Junpei and Akane are childhood friends?". Phi had the potential to be a very good character but she's incredibly inconsistent and towards the later half of the game she essentially mellows out and gets outshined by Tenmyouji, Luna, and even Akane.Phi, while going commando and being very sincere to the point of being incredible rude still made really valid and interesting points all around, making it so that whether you liked her or not people around her still went along with what she said for the most part. And you are somewhat forgetting that even when she put those things in place and told other people to trust them while pairing up with Sigma, she still told you from time to time that you should choose betray when you were alone with her, so is not like she didn't put a "nice guy" act and dropped when it suited her best. |
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| It was said in both games that both danger and epiphany boost the ability to access the Morphogenetic Field. |
| Really? I'm looking over some of the routes and I'm not seeing it mentioned in VLR. It could be in 999 but fuck restarting that game to look for the explanation. If there's one thing VLR did right, it was letting the player jump from section to section. |
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| I'm 1000% sure that that was said in 999 at least. I think it was also said in VLR but I might be wrong, if it is then it has to be during clover route, the ending or the silver/gold files. |
TR-8RCaim said: Really? I'm looking over some of the routes and I'm not seeing it mentioned in VLR. It could be in 999 but fuck restarting that game to look for the explanation. If there's one thing VLR did right, it was letting the player jump from section to section. I think it's at that part where... |
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