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At this point RWBY should be added to the database

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Mar 11, 2016 7:57 PM

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YayaChibi said:
Mayuka said:
So does Frozen, Twilight and Divergent.


My point exactly. In japan if you ask someone what is Frozen they will answer anime. Becuse Anime translates directly into Animation. So therefore if the show is an animationand it has a Japanese dub it is an anime.
And outside of Japan anime is used to refer to Japanese cartoons exclusively. Why is it so hard for some people to grasp this?
 
Mar 11, 2016 8:51 PM

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Eh, I'm not sure it should be considered such. It still has the feel, writing, and structure of a western cartoon. It's more like the Winx Club or Code Lyoko than an anime. Avatar the Last Airbender is also very anime like, maybe even more so and is still not considered such.
Modified by DawningFog, Mar 11, 2016 8:55 PM
 
Mar 12, 2016 12:17 PM

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ReaperCreeper said:
YayaChibi said:


My point exactly. In japan if you ask someone what is Frozen they will answer anime. Becuse Anime translates directly into Animation. So therefore if the show is an animationand it has a Japanese dub it is an anime.
And outside of Japan anime is used to refer to Japanese cartoons exclusively. Why is it so hard for some people to grasp this?


There's a point when definitions become outdated.

"Anime" used to refer to japanese animation because it was unique to that specific country. Japan started using very specific animation techniques that came to be recognized under a specific word(ex: first japanimation then anime). Over time instead of animation technique, the term anime began to refer to very specific aesthetic. And now Japan is no longer the only ones doing that. It no longer is the only country doing it with anime-style shows being created by the west like RWBY. The term usage in the west simply has to catch up.
 
Mar 12, 2016 5:57 PM

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Fai said:
ReaperCreeper said:
And outside of Japan anime is used to refer to Japanese cartoons exclusively. Why is it so hard for some people to grasp this?


There's a point when definitions become outdated.

"Anime" used to refer to japanese animation because it was unique to that specific country. Japan started using very specific animation techniques that came to be recognized under a specific word(ex: first japanimation then anime). Over time instead of animation technique, the term anime began to refer to very specific aesthetic. And now Japan is no longer the only ones doing that. It no longer is the only country doing it with anime-style shows being created by the west like RWBY. The term usage in the west simply has to catch up.

The problem is that most people in the West use anime to refer to their fandom of animated shows that originated from Japan. Since this is the definition that most sites use, RWBY cannot be considered an anime by this logic.

I only want it to be added because I like it, but if RWBY gets added, they should just add Samurai Jack to get a new #1 on MAL.
erased sucks lol what an original opinion
 
Mar 17, 2016 12:38 AM

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RWBY is classified as a web series. Get over it.
 
Mar 17, 2016 2:30 AM
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Spyro said:
puella_magi said:
Then we need to delete all chinese and korean anime. They are not made in Japan.


Ehm.. no. Have you even read the guidelines for adding anime to the MAL database?

I second:

1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:
Professionally produced, animated works created:
◦in Japan for the Japanese market;
◦in Korea/China for the Korean/Chinese market;
◦as a joint production between Japan/Korea/China and another country.
Note: This does not include productions where only the animation is outsourced.

Full guidelines can be found here

Which means the Korean and Chinese anime can stay where they are. Which is in the database of MAL


Quoted this because rwby fans still don't grasp this.

/end thread
 
Mar 17, 2016 2:35 AM

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pls add tom and jerry to the database too

tyvm
"If you died, would anyone care? Would they really care? Maybe, they'd cry for a day. But, let's be honest no one would give a shit. They wouldn't. The few people that would feel obligated to go to your funeral would probably be annoyed and leave as early as possible. That's who you are. That's what you are. You are nothing to anyone. To everyone."
-Mr. Robot

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Mar 18, 2016 8:01 AM

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RainyRai said:
Fai said:


There's a point when definitions become outdated.

"Anime" used to refer to japanese animation because it was unique to that specific country. Japan started using very specific animation techniques that came to be recognized under a specific word(ex: first japanimation then anime). Over time instead of animation technique, the term anime began to refer to very specific aesthetic. And now Japan is no longer the only ones doing that. It no longer is the only country doing it with anime-style shows being created by the west like RWBY. The term usage in the west simply has to catch up.

The problem is that most people in the West use anime to refer to their fandom of animated shows that originated from Japan. Since this is the definition that most sites use, RWBY cannot be considered an anime by this logic.

I only want it to be added because I like it, but if RWBY gets added, they should just add Samurai Jack to get a new #1 on MAL.



Samurai Jackdoes not follow the aesthetic of what is considered an anime.

Seriously though,the definition used becomes ridiculous when a western comic book adaptation written by western writers counts as more anime than something that actually looks like anime, JUST because of where it is produced:
http://myanimelist.net/anime/4094/Batman__Gotham_Knight
Or hell, Halo Legends:
http://myanimelist.net/anime/6867/Halo_Legends

IF the idea that something can only be produced by certain country to be "real" then I am sorry I find such a definition to be incredibly problematic in same way as the idea in 30s-60s that only people of color should play jazz or blues because it originated with them and somehow what other people play shouldnot be counted as jazz or blues even if it sounds like it. Or how any video game genre started with products being labeled as "somethingsomethingClone" just because some game or company started it.

As anime industry is moving forward, moving away from racial stereotypes is bound to happen. We already have companies like Netflix start getting involved in production of anime and the idea of "anime" is getting VERY muddy as production gets outsourced all over the world and things like RWBY start to use the same style.

The REAL problem is how does one define Anime as an art style and art genre. That's what the showstopper here is. Clearly defining WHAT Anime is. I doubt RWBY will ever be added here to be honest, but the anime market will have to move away from country-based definitions as it progresses and nobody seems to wonder HOW - how to define anime as a major genre of animation based on its features and not on country limitations. How to separate it? How to define what makes anime into what it is? Its clearly its own genre by now, but nobody seems to even try to define WHAT it means.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Mar 18, 2016 8:20 AM
 
Mar 18, 2016 9:01 AM

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Fai said:
Samurai Jackdoes not follow the aesthetic of what is considered an anime.

So what does follow the anime aesthetic according to you? There's such a huge difference in art styles within the anime medium that you can't just say what is an anime and what isn't based on aesthetics.

Your comparison simply doesn't work because we can determine what's jazz/ blues and what isn't based on the way the music sounds, the instruments used, etc. You can't do the same for anime because it never really had one specific art style.

Fai said:
The REAL problem is how does one define Anime as an art style and art genre.

You can't define it as an art style and art genre. Anime = Japanese cartoons, either made by Japanese and intended primarily for a Japanese audience or made with help from Japanese for other countries.

Fai said:
the anime market will have to move away from country-based definitions as it progresses

Why does it need to do that? What will Japan have to gain from outsiders creating anime influenced cartoons?
 
Mar 18, 2016 11:26 AM

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Suna_Kujira said:
Fai said:
Samurai Jackdoes not follow the aesthetic of what is considered an anime.

So what does follow the anime aesthetic according to you? There's such a huge difference in art styles within the anime medium that you can't just say what is an anime and what isn't based on aesthetics.

There's huge difference of styles and influences in music genres.
ANd as I said in the same post, the problem is DEFINING what anime is.


Your comparison simply doesn't work because we can determine what's jazz/ blues and what isn't based on the way the music sounds, the instruments used, etc. You can't do the same for anime because it never really had one specific art style.

But we could not back then when the common belief was that only people of color could create jazz/blues. Or that all real time strategies were cnc/warcraft clones.

Fai said:
The REAL problem is how does one define Anime as an art style and art genre.

You can't define it as an art style and art genre. Anime = Japanese cartoons, either made by Japanese and intended primarily for a Japanese audience or made with help from Japanese for other countries.

Jazz = Music that has roots in afro-american descent created by Afro Americans.

See how easy t is to assign race to a genre?

Fai said:
the anime market will have to move away from country-based definitions as it progresses

Why does it need to do that? What will Japan have to gain from outsiders creating anime influenced cartoons?

Because art genres evolve beyond their roots and all art is free? Japan has control of their industry but not of the genre itself.

Things like RWBY being created is the sign of that and while it is just the start, its not the end.
 
Mar 18, 2016 11:42 AM

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The point I was trying to make is that music genres can be defined by other things than where they came from while anime can't. If you could define anime by its art style, then you could try to move away from the definition it has right now. But you can't because anime never had one certain style to begin with, so the 'Japanese cartoons' definition is still the best one.

But why should it matter if we can call those cartoons anime or not? You could try to imitate typical anime tropes while creating a cartoon and not care about the definition. Why is it that important for you to change the definition of anime?
 
Mar 20, 2016 11:11 PM
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I agree that RWBY isn't strictly an anime.
Art style, production philosophy (choreography over art, very little repetition in music scoring), and cultural influences make the show stand out as something different.

But the differences only spice up this (western) anime and make it potentially more enjoyable to anime fans (especially the site's western userbase).


It's obvious where this show comes from, artistically. Saying it's not worthy of the database is like saying opossums can't be marsupials because they're not from Australia.

This site is comfortable listing manhwa (Koran manga) and anime with westerners in the staff.
Even if a new category was needed, gating (western) anime from exposure and denying users information serves no purpose.
Modified by serecore, Mar 20, 2016 11:16 PM
 
Mar 20, 2016 11:15 PM

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serecore said:
I agree that RWBY isn't strictly an anime.
Art style, production philosophy (choreography over art, very little repetition in music scoring), and cultural influences make the show stand out as something different.

But the differences only spice up this (western) anime and make it potentially more enjoyable to anime fans (especially western ones, the site's userbase).


It's obvious where this show comes from, artistically. Saying it's not worthy of the database is like saying opossums can't be marsupials because they're not from Australia.

This site is comfortable listing manhwa (Koran manga) and anime with westerners in the staff.
Even if a new category was needed, gating (western) anime from exposure and denying users information serves no purpose.
Keeping up with all the anime made in Italy and France would be a lot of work, and it would also be difficult to determine which ones are database worthy if we were to use a new definition. It makes the most sense to keep the definition as is and only allow East Asian productions (Japan, China, South Korea) in the database.
 
Mar 20, 2016 11:34 PM
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zombie_pegasus said:
Keeping up with all the anime made in Italy and France would be a lot of work, and it would also be difficult to determine which ones are database worthy if we were to use a new definition. It makes the most sense to keep the definition as is and only allow East Asian productions (Japan, China, South Korea) in the database.
Maybe only consider ones that made it to crunchyroll (I'm not sure what CR's library is like, so this is just a shot in the dark)?

I understand that selectively opening the gates MIGHT (or might not) be a complicated can of worms.
But I only heard of this show by chance, and had difficulty finding meaningful reviews. Even though, in my opinion, it' might deserve a spot on MAL's top 100.

All that's needed is a new category, like the one manhwa has. Stuff like spongebob (lol) could easily be excluded from this category.
Even if moderation got sloppy, Japan is already diluting the site with meaningless comedy, kids', "light novel", and tropey copypasta content/"shows".

I still suspect the current stance is based on purism and inertia. Not slippery slopes, significantly increased admin workloads, or whether any given show is relevant to the site's users.
Modified by serecore, Mar 23, 2016 3:11 AM
 
Apr 2, 2016 2:46 PM
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YayaChibi said:
JizzyHitler said:
its not happening, stop trying. rwby is made by a bunch of dudes in texas. Warping around the definition of anime to try and get it on here has been tried a million times and debunked each time, rwby is about as anime as sponegbob is.


RWBY has a Japanese dub, an anime art-style, anime plot, and I'm pretty sure there was soeone Japanese on the crew.
Anime is actually just as much anime as spongebob as well. It's just in another language. Anime is a Japanese Animation or Japanese Dubed animation therefore I'd have to disagree with you.


The creator Monty Oum was also part Japanese.
 
Apr 2, 2016 3:52 PM
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Kagami said:
Spyro said:


Ehm.. no. Have you even read the guidelines for adding anime to the MAL database?

I second:

1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:
Professionally produced, animated works created:
◦in Japan for the Japanese market;
◦in Korea/China for the Korean/Chinese market;
◦as a joint production between Japan/Korea/China and another country.
Note: This does not include productions where only the animation is outsourced.

Full guidelines can be found here

Which means the Korean and Chinese anime can stay where they are. Which is in the database of MAL


Quoted this because rwby fans still don't grasp this.

/end thread


It doesn't fit the guidelines at all.
 
Apr 2, 2016 6:06 PM

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No it shouldn't. Anime is Japanese animation.
 
Apr 2, 2016 6:07 PM

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Don't be dat stupid hoe. It's a 'murican kart00n.
Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you.
 
Apr 2, 2016 8:10 PM

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Beef and pork are both red meat. Beef and pork can both be cooked to taste the same as each other. You can make variations of the same dishes with both, such as beef steak and pork steak. However, beef and pork are not the same thing and do not come from the same source. Saying beef is not pork is not elitist, nor is it a claim that pork is better than beef.

I'd also like to point out that similarities in style go both ways. Astro Boy, which could in many senses be considered the father of all anime, is still in many ways the same as Western cartoons stylistically. The same is true of other early anime works, since they were heavily influenced by Walt Disney in the West. It is a normal thing for different cultures and ways of doing things to influence each other, but that doesn't make them identical. Both Western and Eastern animation have a wide variety of styles and tropes that occasionally overlap, and it's because of this that it's easier, less arbitrary, and more informative to differentiate by source than by style or tropes (or some mishmash of the two). If you're going to argue against using source as the definition, then I would indeed agree that we're better off removing all distinctions and considering Loony Toons or SpongeBob just as much anime as anything else. Using style and tropes as a determining factor is far too vague to be consistent.

Although I don't consider Japanese animation to be inherently superior to Western animation, I personally appreciate the differentiation in source and do not wish to see it removed.
 
Apr 2, 2016 9:37 PM

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Its not Anime but it could be added as "Anime Influenced Cartoons" Like Hummingburd does but I think MAL is a LOT LOT different than the other sites

So it should be like that but it probaly wont be added
 
Apr 3, 2016 1:35 AM

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YayaChibi said:
Spyro said:


Judging from the replies here, the 'rest of the site' thinks RWBY should NOT be added.
And that includes me.

An American production is NOT an anime. Even if it looks so much like an anime, RWBY is NOT AN ANIME.


It IS AN ANIIME. I hate having to write this now in this thread. I understand the site will not add it again but yes RWBY is an anime. An anime isn't just the girls with huge eyes, big boobs, A.K.A Japanese cartoons. It literally is the Japanese word for ANIMATION. How do average anime fans not know of this? It is starting to get annoying like this thread.


If your definition of ''Japanese cartoons'' is girls with huge eyes and big boobs, then I've watched different Japanese cartoons than you. I know what you mean but there's so much more to ''Japanese cartoons'' than that.
And YES, I KNOW, anime is the Japanese word for animaton, you're not the first person who mentioned this in this topic. But that's not the definition MAL uses for adding anime.

RWBY is an anime by your defnition, not by mine. We don't have the same opinion, well so be it. We can't agree on everything.
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Apr 3, 2016 1:39 AM

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PixelPhantomz said:
Its not Anime but it could be added as "Anime Influenced Cartoons" Like Hummingburd does but I think MAL is a LOT LOT different than the other sites

So it should be like that but it probaly wont be added

RWBY fans could found a "My Anime Influenced Cartoons List". It doesn't have a place in MAL :D
 
Apr 3, 2016 1:49 AM

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Why are people still arguing this?

Should Panty & Stocking not be on here because it uses western animation style and has countless western influences?

But I still think it's dumb as hell that Korean/Chinese cartoons are on here, why should that count as anime? Because they're Asian?
 
Apr 3, 2016 7:32 AM

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Apr 3, 2016 2:59 PM
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Link is What Is Anime? (And What Isn't?)

Kineta said:

Anime Database Guidelines

...

Section I: Anime Additions

1. The following entries are allowed in the anime database:

             Professionally produced, animated works created:
  • in Japan for the Japanese market;
  • in Korea/China for the Korean/Chinese market;
  • as a joint production between Japan/Korea/China and another country.
    Note: This does not include productions where only the animation is outsourced.

...

It is that simple. If one/a group would like to have an alternative category based on animations outside of Japan (or/and Korea/China), then someone should start a request for that kind of category.
 
Apr 5, 2016 3:04 AM

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Jerkhov said:
Why are people still arguing this?

Should Panty & Stocking not be on here because it uses western animation style and has countless western influences?

But I still think it's dumb as hell that Korean/Chinese cartoons are on here, why should that count as anime? Because they're Asian?

i agree with you. outside of japan the word anime is used for japanese animations (which is perfectly logical). including a western animation like rwby would require to include all cartoons but while i can understand this wish this page wouldn't be myANIMElist anymore.
the problem i have isn't that rwby is not included even tho there are some korean/non-japanese animations/cartoons in the db but that the guidelines allow "korean anime"...
 
Apr 5, 2016 3:17 AM

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A lot of anime is animated mainly by Koreans, so including their cartoons kind of makes sense I think. They're already a "legit" part of the anime world. Not sure about China.
 
Apr 10, 2016 11:14 AM

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Well, the creator of RWBY (Monty Oum) does consider it an anime.

Maybe that`s just my belief in "Death of the author" kicking in.
"Anti-elitists" are the true elitists of this community. Their brand of bigotry reminds me that the elitist stereotype they perpetuate basically doesn't exist, and those who use it to scapegoat are basically just projecting, as they sit in their ivory tower looking down at and attacking people they disagree with because they're being negative on a show they like, and their favorites list is comprised of at least one non-mainstream classic, all the while cowering at the idea of those people giving them a taste of their own medicine. Seeing negative MAL reviews on shows they like must be so fucking hard for them, grog.
 
Apr 10, 2016 11:55 AM
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CodeBlazeFate said:
Well, the creator of RWBY (Monty Oum) does consider it an anime.

Maybe that`s just my belief in "Death of the author" kicking in.

It doesnt mean that its an anime because he said it is tho. ._.
 
Apr 10, 2016 8:37 PM

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Simar said:
Jerkhov said:
Why are people still arguing this?

Should Panty & Stocking not be on here because it uses western animation style and has countless western influences?

But I still think it's dumb as hell that Korean/Chinese cartoons are on here, why should that count as anime? Because they're Asian?

i agree with you. outside of japan the word anime is used for japanese animations (which is perfectly logical). including a western animation like rwby would require to include all cartoons but while i can understand this wish this page wouldn't be myANIMElist anymore.
the problem i have isn't that rwby is not included even tho there are some korean/non-japanese animations/cartoons in the db but that the guidelines allow "korean anime"...


The database allowed korean manga (manhwa) and chinese manga (manhua) so it was only fair that their anime be allowed as well. Every manga database site allows the trio which predates MAL's birth. AniDB also allows korean and chinese anime but it's a anime-only database site which predates MAL as well. It's a fairness that has been ingrained in the anime community literally longer than you have been alive.
 
Apr 10, 2016 11:17 PM

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lanblade said:
It's a fairness that has been ingrained in the anime community literally longer than you have been alive.


People thought the Earth was flat for thousands of years. The fact some still believe that today doesn't make it any more true than back then....
"You know, when people make you feel angry or sad, it's usually because it matters to you what they think. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. Face it, if you didn't care about what they thought, you wouldn't hate them..." ~Planetes
 
Apr 16, 2016 2:29 PM

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YayaChibi said:
It IS AN ANIIME. I hate having to write this now in this thread. I understand the site will not add it again but yes RWBY is an anime. An anime isn't just the girls with huge eyes, big boobs, A.K.A Japanese cartoons. It literally is the Japanese word for ANIMATION. How do average anime fans not know of this? It is starting to get annoying like this thread.

Anime has a different meaning outside of Japan, wether you like it or not.
How many times do we have to tell you this? Can't you understand?
 
Apr 16, 2016 2:55 PM

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Darkshadow77 said:
YayaChibi said:
It IS AN ANIIME. I hate having to write this now in this thread. I understand the site will not add it again but yes RWBY is an anime. An anime isn't just the girls with huge eyes, big boobs, A.K.A Japanese cartoons. It literally is the Japanese word for ANIMATION. How do average anime fans not know of this? It is starting to get annoying like this thread.

Anime has a different meaning outside of Japan, wether you like it or not.
How many times do we have to tell you this? Can't you understand?

yeah, if we would use the japanese definition MAL would be pointless. it would become MyCartoonList/MyAnimatedCartoonList (not sure about the correct english term) and literally each and every little piece of animation would need an own entry... (there already are more than 10k anime(japanese, chinese, korean cartoons) entries in the db)
 
Apr 16, 2016 7:13 PM

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TsundereHeart said:
RealityRush said:
I still find it funny that even after NewType and Hummingbird and ANN and like every other major anime outlet has basically accepted RWBY as anime because stylistically it clearly is, MAL continues to stand firm as the last bastion of snobby elitists holding out against it because of a slippery slope fallacy (no, allowing RWBY doesn't mean you have to allow Spongebob, you can make a choice) and the purity of their hobby.

I know this fight will never be won, but it is hilarious nonetheless. RWBY is basically anime, even if MAL tries to keep their database svelte by refusing to allow it, swimming against the tide and all that ;P
Please define "anime style" then.

There literally isn't a specific style that anime is bound to. It's just that a lot of them tend to follow the same artstyle (but not all).
I don't think anyone would debate that Crayon Shin-Chan is an anime, but it looks less like the generic style than Spongebob does.

You say you can just "make a choice", but I highly doubt if someone gave you all the cartoons and told them to sort them into two categories that you would be able to do shit. Besides you know, display your clear lack of knowledge on the topic and throw a bunch of shows that people wouldn't dispute are anime into the "not anime" category just because it's not the generic style that most shows use.

So this is just my response to your post as a "snobby elitist". And while I'm already at it, you should probably check what you're talking about. No, those websites have not "basically accepted RWBY as anime". Saying something is similar is not saying that it actuall is, and those websites quite clearly state that it is NOT an anime.
AnimeNewsNetwork said:
According to Anime News Network publisher, Christopher Macdonald, "On Anime News Network, we define anime based on the origin of the animation. If it is primarily produced in Japan, it is anime. It should be clear, that by adhering to a definition that defines non-Japanese animation that mimic common anime styles as 'not anime,' Anime News Network does not endorse the notion that these 'anime-style' works are in any way inferior to animation produced in Japan. "
Hummingbird said:
RWBY
Genres: Action Adventure Anime Influenced

I'm not familiar with Newtype so I'm not going to comment on that one, but quite clearly 2 out of your 3 "sources" don't even say what you claim they say.
And if you want to say "well the very fact that they mention RWBY is /somehow/ accepting it as anime", then here you go and have another. End of discussion.



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Apr 16, 2016 7:14 PM

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If RWBY get added might as well add Avatar(which would be an instant 10)

 
Apr 16, 2016 7:15 PM

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RealityRush said:
TsundereHeart said:
Please define "anime style" then.

There literally isn't a specific style that anime is bound to. It's just that a lot of them tend to follow the same artstyle (but not all).
I don't think anyone would debate that Crayon Shin-Chan is an anime, but it looks less like the generic style than Spongebob does.

You say you can just "make a choice", but I highly doubt if someone gave you all the cartoons and told them to sort them into two categories that you would be able to do shit. Besides you know, display your clear lack of knowledge on the topic and throw a bunch of shows that people wouldn't dispute are anime into the "not anime" category just because it's not the generic style that most shows use.


Why when one says "anime style" does everyone always automatically assume that it must exclusively refer to art/animation style? Anime has many very specific markers that differentiate it from something like Spongebob. Sure, Panty and Stocking clearly shares a lot of visual similarities with something like the Power Puff Girls, but there is clearly a world of difference in other ways, from the language it was produced in, to the type of story it is trying to tell, to tropes it uses (turning lingerie into weapons doesn't really come up a lot in the west ;P), etc.

Anyone experienced in anime and Japanese culture could probably look at Spongebob, and even if they don't understand exactly why, I'm confident they would be able to say "that's not anime". The humour is way different, the place the characters reside in is a very different feel, etc.

It would have to be on a case-by-case basis when these disagreements come up. You can have "exceptions" to the origin rule, because no rule is absolute, there's always grey areas. That's the job of admin's and moderators. Again, you can't use the slippery slope fallacy and say, "if you let in RWBY you have to let in Loonie Toons as well!" because the mods can just say "no" as they are right now with RWBY. There are no metaphorical flood-gates here, this is an ongoing argument that will never cease.

TsundereHeart said:
So this is just my response to your post as a "snobby elitist". And while I'm already at it, you should probably check what you're talking about. No, those websites have not "basically accepted RWBY as anime". Saying something is similar is not saying that it actuall is, and those websites quite clearly state that it is NOT an anime.

I'm not familiar with Newtype so I'm not going to comment on that one, but quite clearly 2 out of your 3 "sources" don't even say what you claim they say.
And if you want to say "well the very fact that they mention RWBY is /somehow/ accepting it as anime", then here you go and have another. End of discussion.


I'm well aware of what their encyclopaedic definition of "anime" is, but that isn't the end of discussion. They don't just mention RWBY. They post RWBY articles, reviews, ads, news, etc as if it were considered anime. ANN clearly labels it as a "original net animation" to try and somehow differentiate it, but when it is on a site called "Anime News Network" and then treated like all other anime, that's a pretty fucking hollow definition you're bullshitting just to pander to elitists when at face value they don't actually treat it any differently. They do this for RWBY and Avatar, yet they don't do it for Loonie Toons or Spongebob, they pick and choose. You can pretend like whatever definition they assign it matters, or you can realize that for all intents and purposes they treat it as an anime, the logical thing most people would do. Actions speak louder than words, and ANN's actions show that they consider RWBY an anime.

It's no different than a politician saying (s)he works for the common good of the people, but then accepts shit loads of corporate money and influence and bends over backwards for industry. It doesn't matter what ANN says, it matters what it does. Likewise for Hummingbird.

NewType is the magazine whose rankings for monthly top anime characters shows up all the time over at /r/anime on Reddit, and often on MAL as well.

Anyway, the point is definitions change, they are part of language, and language is fluid. Trying to strictly adhere to an origin definition and pretend like it is the only correct answer is nearly impossible. It's just as arbitrary a definition as any style one, especially considering how much anime work in Japan is exported outside of it.

You can pretend like your origin definition is iron-clad and the only right one to anyone with a brain, but you just come off as pretentious. That's why I find these discussions damn hilarious, because both sides think their arbitrary definition is more right than the other. Anime is whatever society as a collective deems it ;P


It's hard to take somebody seriously when SAO is their favorite anime.
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Apr 16, 2016 7:21 PM

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Blaze said:
Maffy said:
Also, tying anime to "a technique" rather than a "place" is extremely silly (to me at least), as anime has TONS of different techniques.


Anime could have many techniques but those are sub-divisions of anime itself. You can't tell me that pizza isn't pizza because it's not from Italy. Yes, it originated there, but it's not limited to that location.


This argument is so off base because, for a moment, let's use actual definitions.

Per Merriam-Webster:

Definition of pizza: a dish made typically of flattened bread dough spread with a savory mixture usually including tomatoes and cheese and often other toppings and baked.

Definition of anime: a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes.

See the difference? Anime isn't just animation, but it's japanese animation. I love Avatar, both Last Airbender and Korra, but I would never argue that they should be considered for the MAL database. They simply don't fit the definition. This is not difficult.
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Apr 16, 2016 7:47 PM

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it's not anime tho
 
Apr 16, 2016 8:05 PM

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CC9ers said:
Blaze said:


Anime could have many techniques but those are sub-divisions of anime itself. You can't tell me that pizza isn't pizza because it's not from Italy. Yes, it originated there, but it's not limited to that location.


This argument is so off base because, for a moment, let's use actual definitions.

Per Merriam-Webster:

Definition of pizza: a dish made typically of flattened bread dough spread with a savory mixture usually including tomatoes and cheese and often other toppings and baked.

Definition of anime: a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes.

See the difference? Anime isn't just animation, but it's japanese animation. I love Avatar, both Last Airbender and Korra, but I would never argue that they should be considered for the MAL database. They simply don't fit the definition. This is not difficult.


The difference between your definitions is that one has more information than the other. The pizza definition is missing it's origin. Take your anime definition that you got from Google, remove "originating in Japan", and you have the same thing as the pizza definition. Otherwise, add "originating in Italy" to your pizza definition, and you have the same results.
 
Apr 16, 2016 8:14 PM

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CC9ers said:
It's hard to take somebody seriously when SAO is their favorite anime.

It's hard to take someone seriously when ad hominem is the only argument they have ;P
 
Apr 16, 2016 9:09 PM

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I don't know what people expect. RWBY does not fit in the guidelines of stuff MAL adds, therefore it is not added. If they change the guidelines in a way where RWBY could be included, it should.

"Anime means animation in Japan" is a retarded argument because this website is not using the Japanese definition.

I love RWBY to death but it shouldn't be here.
erased sucks lol what an original opinion
 
Apr 16, 2016 10:03 PM

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RealityRush said:
CC9ers said:
It's hard to take somebody seriously when SAO is their favorite anime.

It's hard to take someone seriously when ad hominem is the only argument they have ;P


Good thing I'm not trying to be taken seriously then. :p

Really though, I don't know why people seem to think RWBY is an exception to the rule just because it's popular. I can only assume it's because of the frustration of not being able to officially add it to the "completed" list.
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Apr 16, 2016 10:13 PM

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Just because something's popular doesn't make it anime. Disney animated movies get translated into many languages, including Japanese. Are they anime? (Please don't say yes).
Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you.
 
Apr 16, 2016 10:25 PM

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CC9ers said:
RealityRush said:

It's hard to take someone seriously when ad hominem is the only argument they have ;P


Good thing I'm not trying to be taken seriously then. :p

Really though, I don't know why people seem to think RWBY is an exception to the rule just because it's popular. I can only assume it's because of the frustration of not being able to officially add it to the "completed" list.

They don't think it is an exception to the rule, they think the rule would include it; or rather, they think there are already exceptions being made and there's precedent for it. Most people don't consider "originating in Japan" a part of what defines "anime". That is an ancient way of thinking that only the old stalwarts cling to. Most people these days consider "anime" more of a look/feel of a show than when and where it was made, especially in a world where globalization means that no "anime" is really truly a singular national effort anymore. I tend to agree with them as it isn't like Japanese animators only live in Japan anymore, borders are meaningless now with the internet and globalization.

MAL's rules specifically include origin in their definition, but then they go out of their way to let in other forms of media that break that part of the definition anyway, so rightfully so, most people don't understand why they can't do the same for RWBY. It's a very valid question. Why do random Chinese/Korean-made shows get a pass, but not RWBY? Or Avatar?
 
Apr 16, 2016 10:34 PM

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RealityRush said:
CC9ers said:


Good thing I'm not trying to be taken seriously then. :p

Really though, I don't know why people seem to think RWBY is an exception to the rule just because it's popular. I can only assume it's because of the frustration of not being able to officially add it to the "completed" list.

They don't think it is an exception to the rule, they think the rule would include it; or rather, they think there are already exceptions being made and there's precedent for it. Most people don't consider "originating in Japan" a part of what defines "anime". That is an ancient way of thinking that only the old stalwarts cling to. Most people these days consider "anime" more of a look/feel of a show than when and where it was made, especially in a world where globalization means that no "anime" is really truly a singular national effort anymore. I tend to agree with them as it isn't like Japanese animators only live in Japan anymore, borders are meaningless now with the internet and globalization.

MAL's rules specifically include origin in their definition, but then they go out of their way to let in other forms of media that break that part of the definition anyway, so rightfully so, most people don't understand why they can't do the same for RWBY. It's a very valid question. Why do random Chinese/Korean-made shows get a pass, but not RWBY? Or Avatar?



I don't have an argument against the Korean/Chinese aspect of things as I don't really understand their exception myself. I can only assume it's because their source material comes from manhwa and manhua which are essentially the same as manga, so exceptions are made for that as a result. Does it make sense? Not really, but Asian culture is typically jumbled together and animation is no different in that regard.

Even as a huge Avatar fan, I would never try arguing it as an "anime" even though it is very similar and it's world-building is even based off of Chinese culture. It just doesn't strike me as an anime and neither does RWBY.
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Apr 16, 2016 10:35 PM

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If that gets added to the database then Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra should also be added.
 
Apr 16, 2016 10:57 PM

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Anime and cartoons are the same thing...why shouldn't it be added? It is only outside of Japan that "anime" means "just" Japanese produced animation. Inside of Japan the abbreviation refers to all animation regardless of origin.

The idea that it refers only to Japanese created material is absolutely absurd and anyone who thinks they are different is grossly misinformed.

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Apr 16, 2016 11:12 PM

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Anime and cartoon are both animated stuff but that doesn't make them the same.
The idea where they are compared to one another is gross.
 
Apr 16, 2016 11:23 PM

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Jelmazmo said:
Anime and cartoons are the same thing...why shouldn't it be added? It is only outside of Japan that "anime" means "just" Japanese produced animation. Inside of Japan the abbreviation refers to all animation regardless of origin.

The idea that it refers only to Japanese created material is absolutely absurd and anyone who thinks they are different is grossly misinformed.


The concensus is that anime is japan-only animation. One can argue semantics of course. Not that it will amount to anything.

Japanese animation has it's own "flavor", which you can't find in western animations. Something to do with japanese culture or something, I dunno :D
 
Apr 16, 2016 11:55 PM

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CC9ers said:
I don't have an argument against the Korean/Chinese aspect of things as I don't really understand their exception myself. I can only assume it's because their source material comes from manhwa and manhua which are essentially the same as manga, so exceptions are made for that as a result. Does it make sense? Not really, but Asian culture is typically jumbled together and animation is no different in that regard.

Even as a huge Avatar fan, I would never try arguing it as an "anime" even though it is very similar and it's world-building is even based off of Chinese culture. It just doesn't strike me as an anime and neither does RWBY.

It may not strike you as one, but to many it does, and that already shaky "origin" rule that is regularly made exception of is a pretty flimsy way to deny the people that it does strike as one. It's a hollow argument, which is why people as of late are bent out of shape over it. The mods of MAL are simply fighting against change, change that is eventually coming one way or another as cultures blend. Japan and Japanese culture can't be isolationist forever in an increasingly connected world.


CondemneDio said:
Jelmazmo said:
Anime and cartoons are the same thing...why shouldn't it be added? It is only outside of Japan that "anime" means "just" Japanese produced animation. Inside of Japan the abbreviation refers to all animation regardless of origin.

The idea that it refers only to Japanese created material is absolutely absurd and anyone who thinks they are different is grossly misinformed.


The concensus is that anime is japan-only animation. One can argue semantics of course. Not that it will amount to anything.

According to this thread and hundreds like it, according to Hummingbird and NewType, and according to many thousands of RWBY fans that also like Japanese animation, there isn't actually much of a consensus on this, just what the MAL mods have decided. If there was consensus, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
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