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At this point RWBY should be added to the database

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#1
Dec 23, 2015 4:06 PM

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Considering RWBY now has a massive following in Japan, with a Japanese Dub and Original Japanese Manga in production, it's safe to consider it anime. True I used to be the one to say that RWBY isn't anime and could never become anime but the fandom's influence and the success of the show have proven otherwise. Especially with the creation of the RWBY Manga, which is a Japanese production and is in the MAL Database, we should consider adding the original show on here. Besides at this point RWBY is part Japanese thanks to the Manga and considering Japan's tendencies to turn Manga into anime, well you know what'll happen. My final verdict on the matter is this: RWBY has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime and therefor should be treated as such.
 
#2
Dec 23, 2015 4:08 PM

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No, the Anime was not created in Japan.

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#3
Dec 23, 2015 4:10 PM

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Mayuka said:
No, the Anime was not created in Japan.

Well I say we get a rid of that way of thinking. RWBY is an enigma that, in my opinion, "has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime".
 
#4
Dec 23, 2015 4:11 PM

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DraynaRue said:
Mayuka said:
No, the Anime was not created in Japan.

Well I say we get a rid of that way of thinking. RWBY is an enigma that, in my opinion, "has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime".
It's not. Let's add Frozen and Big Hero while we're at it. And High School Musical. There's too many series that have caused an influence in Japan. No point.

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#5
Dec 23, 2015 4:13 PM

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Then we should add my little pony too since its a big hit in Japan too having their own dub and manga.

 
#6
Dec 23, 2015 4:13 PM

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Mayuka said:
DraynaRue said:

Well I say we get a rid of that way of thinking. RWBY is an enigma that, in my opinion, "has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime".
It's not. Let's add Frozen and Big Hero while we're at it. And High School Musical. There's too many series that have caused an influence in Japan. No point.

I'm not saying that. No-one in there right mind would consider them anime, RWBY is drastically different.
 
#7
Dec 23, 2015 4:14 PM

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badwolf45f said:
Then we should add my little pony too since its a big hit in Japan too having their own dub and manga.

Hmm, that I can sorta agree with. Just like RWBY is has Original Japanese productions so it could work.
 
#8
Dec 23, 2015 4:14 PM

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DraynaRue said:
Mayuka said:
It's not. Let's add Frozen and Big Hero while we're at it. And High School Musical. There's too many series that have caused an influence in Japan. No point.

I'm not saying that. No-one in there right mind would consider them anime, RWBY is drastically different.
No, I don't consider any of these shows including RWBY, an Anime.

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#9
Dec 23, 2015 4:15 PM

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Mayuka said:
DraynaRue said:

I'm not saying that. No-one in there right mind would consider them anime, RWBY is drastically different.
No, I don't consider any of these shows including RWBY, an Anime.

Well that's your opinion, we'll just have to see what the rest of the site thinks.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:18 PM

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Yes, i want South Park and Asterix in my anime list too, please.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:19 PM

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DraynaRue said:
badwolf45f said:
Then we should add my little pony too since its a big hit in Japan too having their own dub and manga.

Hmm, that I can sorta agree with. Just like RWBY is has Original Japanese productions so it could work.


I wasnt being serious, the manga is okay since it was made in Japan and by japanese people but the shows are american made in an american studio which means is not animu.

 
Dec 23, 2015 4:20 PM

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DraynaRue said:
Well that's your opinion, we'll just have to see what the rest of the site thinks.
lol, if we need to debate whether it's an Anime or not, it's not worth adding to MAL.

Simple as that.

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Dec 23, 2015 4:22 PM

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Might as well add JRPG games to the database.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:23 PM

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badwolf45f said:
DraynaRue said:

Hmm, that I can sorta agree with. Just like RWBY is has Original Japanese productions so it could work.


I wasnt being serious, the manga is okay since it was made in Japan and by japanese people but the shows are american made in an american studio which means is not animu.

True it's made by an American Studio but like I said RWBY is an enigma in the whole debate.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:26 PM

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Why cant some people accept that their favorite cartoon is not anime?

Nothing wrong with just being a "cartoon"
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Dec 23, 2015 4:26 PM

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Anime isn't tied to location but rather to technique.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:29 PM

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Ryu said:
Why cant some people accept that their favorite cartoon is not anime?

Nothing wrong with just being a "cartoon"

Maybe the fact that they can't add it to their list hurts them in some way.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:32 PM

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-Chill- said:
Anime isn't tied to location but rather to technique.


"a style of Japanese film and television animation"-Oxford Dictionaries

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anime
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Dec 23, 2015 4:35 PM

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Just curious, do you think Avatar should be added too?
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:36 PM

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kuchitsu said:
Just curious, do you think Avatar should be added too?
probably
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:37 PM

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kuchitsu said:
Just curious, do you think Avatar should be added too?

Considering its artstyle and reputation, plus the fact that it was inspired heavily by anime. Yes it should be.
//Edit:
Admittedly I've worded this wrongly and should've said that I accept it but I'm not asking for Avatar to be added.
Modified by DraynaRue, Dec 23, 2015 5:13 PM
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:43 PM

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Not this shit again..
Apple Pie ~♪
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:56 PM

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DraynaRue said:
Considering its artstyle and reputation, plus the fact that it was inspired heavily by anime. Yes it should be.

Okay, you've just officially lost. :) Joining the Avatar support group is equal to suicide in these debates since it's been rejected so many times already. You should have distanced yourself from it and said that RWBY is a new and special case which makes the discussion worth resurrecting. That would have given you at least a slim chance.
 
Dec 23, 2015 4:57 PM

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No, it shouldn't.
 
Dec 23, 2015 5:07 PM

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kuchitsu said:
DraynaRue said:
Considering its artstyle and reputation, plus the fact that it was inspired heavily by anime. Yes it should be.

Okay, you've just officially lost. :) Joining the Avatar support group is equal to suicide in these debates since it's been rejected so many times already. You should have distanced yourself from it and said that RWBY is a new and special case which makes the discussion worth resurrecting. That would have given you at least a slim chance.

Well I said at the start that "RWBY has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime and therefor should be treated as such". Implying that RWBY is a special case. You asked for my opinion on the matter of Avatar and I gave it you but that shouldn't change the topic of this. This is about RWBY being accepted not Avatar, I'm more in favour of RWBY being accepted and I fully know that Avatar will never be added. Admittedly I did word my opinion on avatar wrongly and should've said that I accept it but I'm not asking for Avatar to be added.
 
Dec 23, 2015 5:15 PM

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CrossfitJesus said:
-Chill- said:
Anime isn't tied to location but rather to technique.


"a style of Japanese film and television animation"-Oxford Dictionaries

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anime


That's what I said.
 
Dec 23, 2015 5:17 PM

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Just wait for the manga to get a adaption or something.
 
Dec 23, 2015 5:23 PM

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Paul said:
Just wait for the manga to get a adaption or something.

Well that's very possible considering how anime is made nowadays.
 
Dec 23, 2015 8:03 PM
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This has been made before... And it's not happening.
 
Dec 23, 2015 11:23 PM

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Tyrel said:
This has been made before... And it's not happening.
People can't use search.

 
Dec 23, 2015 11:31 PM

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It doesn't fall under any of the guidelines.
 
Dec 24, 2015 12:30 AM
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Yeah, I don't see this happening. Also, a series can't "become" an anime or anything else. It either is or it isn't, so no, it's not an enigma. It has nothing to do with popularity, manga adaptations or anything else. It doesn't make a series part Japanese just because it got a manga. Do you know how many superhero shows got a manga? Not like the site will start adding every superhero cartoon, because of that. They are different works and they are treated as such.

Also, tying anime to "a technique" rather than a "place" is extremely silly (to me at least), as anime has TONS of different techniques. We even have Mutant Turtles here and I can see it's VERY different to Ping Pong The Animation or Aku no Hana. That is why MAL chooses to stick to a place definition which is concise and has nothing to do with vague parameters of "popularity" and "technique". So I do not see MAL changing policies any time soon in that regard.
 
Dec 24, 2015 12:35 AM

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Maffy said:
Also, tying anime to "a technique" rather than a "place" is extremely silly (to me at least), as anime has TONS of different techniques.


Anime could have many techniques but those are sub-divisions of anime itself. You can't tell me that pizza isn't pizza because it's not from Italy. Yes, it originated there, but it's not limited to that location.
 
Dec 24, 2015 1:39 AM

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Seriously, how come this kind of thread doen't get insta-killed yet at this point?
 
Dec 24, 2015 1:47 AM
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-Chill- said:
Anime could have many techniques but those are sub-divisions of anime itself. You can't tell me that pizza isn't pizza because it's not from Italy. Yes, it originated there, but it's not limited to that location.

By that definition, every cartoon known to man is anime, but then why would we need the word anime for it? :P It's a wrong comparison. The term anime does mean cartoons in Japan and West only took it out of convenience to specify the ones from Japan. Then, the term has taken different routes as to mean certain styles and country. Both can be equally legit since a term is decided by what people think, but one offers no details but vague ideas of "I feel this is an anime, because the style is anime-esque" (and according to this thread, popularity plays a role too) and the other has precise definition (though, admittedly, there have been cases of co-productions and such which have brought up questions). Is it really surprising that a database site would not choose something obscure? :P

And techniques are not sub-divisions of anime, they do not belong to them. Cartoons from the West have different techniques too lol If anything, Mutant Turtles series reminds more of a cartoon. So no, they do not define a work. Not like if I made a short rotoscoping animation would be instantly an anime lol That's why it is so vague. Anime is a sub-division of cartoons and we could very well call them "Japanese cartoons" and get over it, but we just adopted a japanese word for it.

Either way, those are my 2 cents. I am not the one making or changing the rules, just saying why I, personally, don't see this happening (and I am glad, since my definition of anime coincides with the site).

Edit: No content change. Just had to check something about quick edit.
Modified by Maffy, Dec 25, 2015 1:12 PM
 
Dec 24, 2015 1:53 AM
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Nanaca said:


Seriously, how come this kind of thread doen't get insta-killed yet at this point?


Every person deserves to have their soapbox, no matter how pointless it is. It's become standard at this point that some newcomers question the guidelines. It's either about webtoons or this topic. Eventually people either fall in line or leave.
 
Dec 24, 2015 3:46 AM

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its still crap
 
Dec 24, 2015 10:31 PM

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Since it does have a manga and is getting a Japanese dub, it should be considered an anime. I remember RWBY added to the database here on MAL, but it got deleted. Hopefully, it gets added again.
Modified by NguyenAllDay, Dec 24, 2015 10:34 PM
 
Dec 24, 2015 10:41 PM

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its not happening, stop trying. rwby is made by a bunch of dudes in texas. Warping around the definition of anime to try and get it on here has been tried a million times and debunked each time, rwby is about as anime as sponegbob is.
Modified by JizzyHitler, Dec 24, 2015 10:42 PM

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

 
Dec 24, 2015 10:42 PM

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NguyenAllDay said:
Since it does have a manga and is getting a Japanese dub, it should be considered an anime. I remember RWBY added to the database here on MAL, but it got deleted. Hopefully, it gets added again.


It never got added. It was submitted, which shows up on Google due to a bug, but was rejected because it doesn't fit the guidelines and it still doesn't.
 
Dec 26, 2015 4:29 PM
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How about they fucking open already Mycartoonlist? I'm waiting like then thousand years until a site like that pops up.
My goal is to watch as much anime as possible. On my profile you will also find a list of seen cartoons & movies. Sometimes I release older anime or sub some things. If you have any questions, just ask!
 
Dec 26, 2015 4:30 PM

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valoon said:
How about they fucking open already Mycartoonlist? I'm waiting like then thousand years until a site like that pops up.
There's already other listing sites for them?

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Dec 30, 2015 7:07 PM

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I still find it funny that even after NewType and Hummingbird and ANN and like every other major anime outlet has basically accepted RWBY as anime because stylistically it clearly is, MAL continues to stand firm as the last bastion of snobby elitists holding out against it because of a slippery slope fallacy (no, allowing RWBY doesn't mean you have to allow Spongebob, you can make a choice) and the purity of their hobby.

I know this fight will never be won, but it is hilarious nonetheless. RWBY is basically anime, even if MAL tries to keep their database svelte by refusing to allow it, swimming against the tide and all that ;P
Modified by RealityRush, Dec 30, 2015 7:11 PM
 
Dec 31, 2015 12:13 AM

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DraynaRue said:
Mayuka said:
No, the Anime was not created in Japan.

Well I say we get a rid of that way of thinking. RWBY is an enigma that, in my opinion, "has blurred the boundaries of what is and what isn't anime".

How did it blur the boundaries? It's a bad looking flash tier show (Wakfu uses flashed but looks much better) and stuff like Avatar would fit better here.

Mayuka said:
valoon said:
How about they fucking open already Mycartoonlist? I'm waiting like then thousand years until a site like that pops up.
There's already other listing sites for them?

There isn't one though. Trakt has most stuff on it but there isn't a cartoon focused site.
Modified by EvenJellyOn, Dec 31, 2015 12:14 AM
added the fifth most popular anime onto this site
 
Dec 31, 2015 8:31 AM

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TsundereHeart said:
Please define "anime style" then.

There literally isn't a specific style that anime is bound to. It's just that a lot of them tend to follow the same artstyle (but not all).
I don't think anyone would debate that Crayon Shin-Chan is an anime, but it looks less like the generic style than Spongebob does.

You say you can just "make a choice", but I highly doubt if someone gave you all the cartoons and told them to sort them into two categories that you would be able to do shit. Besides you know, display your clear lack of knowledge on the topic and throw a bunch of shows that people wouldn't dispute are anime into the "not anime" category just because it's not the generic style that most shows use.


Why when one says "anime style" does everyone always automatically assume that it must exclusively refer to art/animation style? Anime has many very specific markers that differentiate it from something like Spongebob. Sure, Panty and Stocking clearly shares a lot of visual similarities with something like the Power Puff Girls, but there is clearly a world of difference in other ways, from the language it was produced in, to the type of story it is trying to tell, to tropes it uses (turning lingerie into weapons doesn't really come up a lot in the west ;P), etc.

Anyone experienced in anime and Japanese culture could probably look at Spongebob, and even if they don't understand exactly why, I'm confident they would be able to say "that's not anime". The humour is way different, the place the characters reside in is a very different feel, etc.

It would have to be on a case-by-case basis when these disagreements come up. You can have "exceptions" to the origin rule, because no rule is absolute, there's always grey areas. That's the job of admin's and moderators. Again, you can't use the slippery slope fallacy and say, "if you let in RWBY you have to let in Loonie Toons as well!" because the mods can just say "no" as they are right now with RWBY. There are no metaphorical flood-gates here, this is an ongoing argument that will never cease.

TsundereHeart said:
So this is just my response to your post as a "snobby elitist". And while I'm already at it, you should probably check what you're talking about. No, those websites have not "basically accepted RWBY as anime". Saying something is similar is not saying that it actuall is, and those websites quite clearly state that it is NOT an anime.
AnimeNewsNetwork said:
According to Anime News Network publisher, Christopher Macdonald, "On Anime News Network, we define anime based on the origin of the animation. If it is primarily produced in Japan, it is anime. It should be clear, that by adhering to a definition that defines non-Japanese animation that mimic common anime styles as 'not anime,' Anime News Network does not endorse the notion that these 'anime-style' works are in any way inferior to animation produced in Japan. "
Hummingbird said:
RWBY
Genres: Action Adventure Anime Influenced

I'm not familiar with Newtype so I'm not going to comment on that one, but quite clearly 2 out of your 3 "sources" don't even say what you claim they say.
And if you want to say "well the very fact that they mention RWBY is /somehow/ accepting it as anime", then here you go and have another. End of discussion.


I'm well aware of what their encyclopaedic definition of "anime" is, but that isn't the end of discussion. They don't just mention RWBY. They post RWBY articles, reviews, ads, news, etc as if it were considered anime. ANN clearly labels it as a "original net animation" to try and somehow differentiate it, but when it is on a site called "Anime News Network" and then treated like all other anime, that's a pretty fucking hollow definition you're bullshitting just to pander to elitists when at face value they don't actually treat it any differently. They do this for RWBY and Avatar, yet they don't do it for Loonie Toons or Spongebob, they pick and choose. You can pretend like whatever definition they assign it matters, or you can realize that for all intents and purposes they treat it as an anime, the logical thing most people would do. Actions speak louder than words, and ANN's actions show that they consider RWBY an anime.

It's no different than a politician saying (s)he works for the common good of the people, but then accepts shit loads of corporate money and influence and bends over backwards for industry. It doesn't matter what ANN says, it matters what it does. Likewise for Hummingbird.

NewType is the magazine whose rankings for monthly top anime characters shows up all the time over at /r/anime on Reddit, and often on MAL as well.

Anyway, the point is definitions change, they are part of language, and language is fluid. Trying to strictly adhere to an origin definition and pretend like it is the only correct answer is nearly impossible. It's just as arbitrary a definition as any style one, especially considering how much anime work in Japan is exported outside of it.

You can pretend like your origin definition is iron-clad and the only right one to anyone with a brain, but you just come off as pretentious. That's why I find these discussions damn hilarious, because both sides think their arbitrary definition is more right than the other. Anime is whatever society as a collective deems it ;P
 
Dec 31, 2015 10:48 AM

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TsundereHeart said:
^ people probably think about "anime style" as art/animation because that's literally what most people who want RWBY to be an anime say. "Oh, it looks like cute anime girls, therefore it is anime".
Your point about characterstics and /feeling/ of anime is kinda interesting, but I still think that's too arbitrary of a definition to use. I disagree with your statement that the mods can "just say 'no'". That would be the most retarded way to run a database when just a handful of people arbitrarily decide what goes on when a lot of times the users already disagree with what's in the database. I mean you personally can choose what you think is an anime and that's fine because your opinion has no significance on others besides those who care to ask, but for a website that claims to list anime, it better know exactly what anime is.

It's no more arbitrary than the origin definition. In fact, I can list tons of aspects that RWBY shares with Japanese anime specifically and not just any animation. For one, the setting is a stereotypical battle-academy shounen that is a very common anime trope. Not only is it a battle-academy, it's a battle-academy with a tournament, another classic anime trope. Then there's all the anime-specific references it includes, the weapons that are heavily influenced by other IP like Soul Eater and God Eater (Monty said so himself), the style of enemies/boss fights which are also very reminiscent of Japanese games, etc.

Then on top of that, you have the Moe as fuck animation style that is very classical anime looking. Hell, the only part of RWBY that isn't styled after Japanese anime is the humour which is very Western and close to RT's roots. If you watch the Japanese dub, it's nearly impossible from the show itself to differentiate it from anything else out of Japan, unlike Spongebob or Loonie Toons, which are very much identifiable as Western.


TsundereHeart said:
Also I don't pretend that there is only one definition. I know in Japan it refers to all cartoons, in the West most people refer to it as cartoons originating from Japan. MAL uses a slightly modified definition and uses other Asian countries. And also that there's some definition in Merriam-Webster that claims it's about style but also has some BS about being "characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes" even though lots of anime don't fall under that criteria.
You can use the other definitions if you wish, but I think MAL should stick to the one that is closer to the most used one in the West. You say the definition is whatever society deems it, but why don't you go through the past MAL forums where people have brought up RWBY and see how many people want it compared to how many people want to stick with the definition MAL already has. I've read through a few and I'm pretty sure more people want it to stay as it is at the moment, so by your own argument MAL's definition stands for now.

I would hazard a guess that most people on MAL would, in fact, be totally fine with calling RWBY an anime and allowing it on the site. It's just you're going to see the most vocal people talking about it on the forums, and those vocal people often tend to be purists (yeah, anecdotal, I know). Then you have people like me who, frankly, just don't give a fuck if RWBY ends up on here one way or another. I don't care if MAL allows it or doesn't, it has 0 impact on my life. These arguments over it are fantastic though, so maybe I should oppose its addition just so I can keep getting a good laugh out of them :P

Personally, in conversation I just call anything an anime that I think fits the style/theme of it. So I'll called RWBY anime, or A:TLA, etc. It's easier and more expedient than saying "web animation" and I don't got time for dat shit. People seem to understand me just fine ;P
Modified by RealityRush, Dec 31, 2015 10:53 AM
 
Feb 22, 2016 6:29 PM

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RealityRush said:
If you watch the Japanese dub, it's nearly impossible from the show itself to differentiate it from anything else out of Japan, unlike Spongebob or Loonie Toons, which are very much identifiable as Western.


I wanted to say the same thing. While I'm not practically head over heels for RWBY, I do think it should be on MAL. In Japan "anime" is only short for "animation" which means ALL animated works, not just the ones made in Japan. If the infamously xenophobic Japanese - who are fiercely protective of their cultural works - are more open-minded about this than MAL, then there is a real problem there...

So what if RWBY wasn't made in Japan? The style, the characters, the moe, the setting and even the story screams "anime". Sure, the 3D animation looks like shoddy ripoff of cutscenes from a Final Fantasy game from 15 years ago, but it's still what it is, an animated series in "anime style". Watching the Japanese dub I would have no idea it was made outside Japan.

If you only consider "anime" that has been made purely in Japan, then for example one of my all time favorites, Interstella 5555 shouldn't be on MAL either. In reality, tt's nothing more than a feature length music video for the Daft Punk album Discovery. The whole concept was thought up by Daft Punk, and they contacted Leiji Matsumoto, their childhood hero, to help them make it. Only the animating itself was done there (by Toei Animation), everything else, the story, the concept, the music, etc was all Thomas Bangalter, Guy-Manuel de Homem-Christo and Cédric Hervet, eg. French. There is literally nothing else "anime" about Interstella, the concept, the story, the producing is all foreign, the music is French and the lyrics are in English to boot. And yet, it IS on MAL, just because of the "animation style", right? So why doesn't it work the other way around? With RWBY, the style, the setting, the characters...just about everything screams "Japanese anime", if only not for the geographical fact it has been animated in the US.

Personally, I don't really care if RWBY is on MAL or not, it's just the arguments in this case doesn't make much sense. If you go by the Japanese definition of "anime", that encompasses all animated works, regardless of where it was produced. If you go by the more common definitions of "look and feel", well, RWBY looks like anime, smells like anime and with the dub it sounds like anime, so it should be anime. But that's just my $0.02...
"You know, when people make you feel angry or sad, it's usually because it matters to you what they think. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. Face it, if you didn't care about what they thought, you wouldn't hate them..." ~Planetes
 
Feb 22, 2016 9:27 PM

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It doesn't give me that +1 on my completed
That's what's stopping me from watching it
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Feb 22, 2016 9:30 PM

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If so, can boondocks be in the myanimelist database as well?
If not, then neither can RWBY.
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Feb 22, 2016 9:30 PM

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Japan also likes Mickey Mouse. I guess Mickey Mouse is anime now.

NO
 
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