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Poll: Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica: Concept Movie Episode 1 Discussion


Dec 5, 2016 4:17 PM
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Mystifire said:
perje said:
so they're going to rip off tutu this time?
I'm going out on a limb and saying you haven't actually watched the concept movie... :P


It's very interesting to say the least. Not exactly the most optimal viewing experience when just watching a recording from some guy's phone or what have you, but there was definitely a lot here, and shows potential for big things whenever the real film/series comes around.

The most surprising thing to me is that it really looks like Hitomi might have a relatively major role compared to her scene in Rebellion. And then of course Mami's epicness near the end!! <3


Talking about what you said about Hitomi, the idea of her becoming a 6th magical girl doesn't seem too far off, especially with what she was saying during the trailer

In any case, we will just have to wait and see what happens
 
Jan 5, 2017 11:37 AM

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Well that was actually quite interesting! I sure liked the atmosphere this short created!
 
Feb 14, 2017 6:17 AM

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This brings me Princess Tutu feels... just Madoka's character design tho.
 
Jun 10, 2017 3:53 AM

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I hope SHAFT goes bankrupt before this abomination comes out.
 
Jun 20, 2017 5:57 AM
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sigh

Do they really need to make a continuation?
I thought Rebellion ended the series perfectly.
 
Jul 21, 2017 9:02 PM
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Holy shit, this is incredible
So many moments worth talking about...

Dammit, Shaft, get on this
 
Jul 21, 2017 9:09 PM
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Madoka_mi said:
Mystifire said:
I'm going out on a limb and saying you haven't actually watched the concept movie... :P


It's very interesting to say the least. Not exactly the most optimal viewing experience when just watching a recording from some guy's phone or what have you, but there was definitely a lot here, and shows potential for big things whenever the real film/series comes around.

The most surprising thing to me is that it really looks like Hitomi might have a relatively major role compared to her scene in Rebellion. And then of course Mami's epicness near the end!! <3


Talking about what you said about Hitomi, the idea of her becoming a 6th magical girl doesn't seem too far off, especially with what she was saying during the trailer

In any case, we will just have to wait and see what happens


Was thinking that as well
At least if she doesn't become a magical girl, this gives evidence that she knows something big, and that she'll be a major part of the movie as a whole.
Modified by Madoka_mi, Jul 21, 2017 9:13 PM
 
Jul 28, 2017 4:36 AM
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Now that I think about it, this trailer is the perfect counterargument against anyone who keeps bitching non-stop by saying that Madoka was happy with her choice in episode 12.

Years of countless debates were settled in mere seconds, lmao.
 
Jul 28, 2017 4:39 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Now that I think about it, this trailer is the perfect counterargument against anyone who keeps bitching non-stop by saying that Madoka was happy with her choice in episode 12.

Years of countless debates were settled in mere seconds, lmao.

There's no debate. Episode 12 was more of conclusive to the state of Madoka's and Homura's relationship and feelings. Unless you are OK with completely nullifying the whole idea of the original series.
Of course SHART will continue milking the franchise with taking shit out of their arseholes.
 
Jul 28, 2017 5:35 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:
Now that I think about it, this trailer is the perfect counterargument against anyone who keeps bitching non-stop by saying that Madoka was happy with her choice in episode 12.

Years of countless debates were settled in mere seconds, lmao.

There's no debate. Episode 12 was more of conclusive to the state of Madoka's and Homura's relationship and feelings. Unless you are OK with completely nullifying the whole idea of the original series.
Of course SHART will continue milking the franchise with taking shit out of their arseholes.


Did you post this reply in the wrong place or something?
None of it seems to be referring to me, because I didn't mention anything about episode 12 being a better conclusion (or not) in that section.

Anyway, I disagree. So far, nothing was nullified - they're just building up on the previous stuff.

So you've never came across the non-ending debates I referenced? Seriously? You must be living under a rock.
 
Jul 28, 2017 5:35 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:

There's no debate. Episode 12 was more of conclusive to the state of Madoka's and Homura's relationship and feelings. Unless you are OK with completely nullifying the whole idea of the original series.
Of course SHART will continue milking the franchise with taking shit out of their arseholes.

Did you post this reply in the wrong place or something?
None of it seems to be referring to me, because I didn't mention anything about episode 12 being a better conclusion (or not) in that section.

Anyway, I disagree. So far, nothing was nullified - they're just building up on the previous stuff.

So you've never came across the non-ending debates I referenced? Seriously? You must be living under a rock.

Oohhh. so you were referring to Rebellion? That makes things even worse. My point still applies.
 
Jul 28, 2017 5:56 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:

Did you post this reply in the wrong place or something?
None of it seems to be referring to me, because I didn't mention anything about episode 12 being a better conclusion (or not) in that section.

Anyway, I disagree. So far, nothing was nullified - they're just building up on the previous stuff.

So you've never came across the non-ending debates I referenced? Seriously? You must be living under a rock.

Oohhh. so you were referring to Rebellion? That makes things even worse. My point still applies.


No, I was referring to those who say Madoka is happy with being a concept that fights witches for eternity. This trailer proves them wrong.
Your point has nothing to do with any of that.

Also Rebellion is great. Deal with it :)
 
Jul 28, 2017 6:00 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:

Oohhh. so you were referring to Rebellion? That makes things even worse. My point still applies.


No, I was referring to those who say Madoka is happy with being a concept that fights witches for eternity. This trailer proves them wrong.
Your point has nothing to do with any of that.

Also Rebellion is great. Deal with it :)

It proves the authors want to milk the franchise with shitty sequels. Next time they gonna make Madoka a trap neko serial killer and you will be still ok with that because SHART said so.
 
Jul 28, 2017 6:25 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:


No, I was referring to those who say Madoka is happy with being a concept that fights witches for eternity. This trailer proves them wrong.
Your point has nothing to do with any of that.

Also Rebellion is great. Deal with it :)

It proves the authors want to milk the franchise with shitty sequels. Next time they gonna make Madoka a trap neko serial killer and you will be still ok with that because SHART said so.


Nah. It proves that I was right all along, lol. Not that it wasn't obvious.

I'm okay with Rebellion as a sequel mainly because it makes perfect sense and concluded the series very well.
If the next project ends up being shit, I will just bash it.

The neko-killer thing seems like a good idea for a spin-off, actually. It sounds hilarious.
 
Jul 28, 2017 6:32 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:

It proves the authors want to milk the franchise with shitty sequels. Next time they gonna make Madoka a trap neko serial killer and you will be still ok with that because SHART said so.


Nah. It proves that I was right all along, lol. Not that it wasn't obvious.

I'm okay with Rebellion as a sequel mainly because it makes perfect sense and concluded the series very well.
If the next project ends up being shit, I will just bash it.

The neko-killer thing seems like a good idea for a spin-off, actually. It sounds hilarious.

It will be worse than Rebellion, that's guaranteed. I don't know what word to use for something lower than "shit", but you are gonna eat it anyway. Ep 12 was already a perfect conclusion, absolutely nothing in Rebellion makes sense to the series. The debate of happiness was never a thing for anyone that actually understood what Madoka Magica's ideas were about.

No wonder someone who likes Rebellion will also like shitty cash grab spin-offs.
 
Jul 28, 2017 7:19 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:


Nah. It proves that I was right all along, lol. Not that it wasn't obvious.

I'm okay with Rebellion as a sequel mainly because it makes perfect sense and concluded the series very well.
If the next project ends up being shit, I will just bash it.

The neko-killer thing seems like a good idea for a spin-off, actually. It sounds hilarious.

It will be worse than Rebellion, that's guaranteed. I don't know what word to use for something lower than "shit", but you are gonna eat it anyway. Ep 12 was already a perfect conclusion, absolutely nothing in Rebellion makes sense to the series. The debate of happiness was never a thing for anyone that actually understood what Madoka Magica's ideas were about.

No wonder someone who likes Rebellion will also like shitty cash grab spin-offs.


Absolutely everything in Rebellion makes sense to the series. It's also a much better conclusion.
I was completely alright with the story ending with that third movie, but since there's more coming, I choose to be optimistic. Nothing wrong with that.
I know. It's quite petty, as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the answer. Still, many kept arguing about the matter for a while. I simply referenced that on a whim.

No wonder someone full of salt like yourself is incapable of enjoying a harmless, parody spin-off.
 
Jul 28, 2017 7:25 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:

It will be worse than Rebellion, that's guaranteed. I don't know what word to use for something lower than "shit", but you are gonna eat it anyway. Ep 12 was already a perfect conclusion, absolutely nothing in Rebellion makes sense to the series. The debate of happiness was never a thing for anyone that actually understood what Madoka Magica's ideas were about.

No wonder someone who likes Rebellion will also like shitty cash grab spin-offs.


Absolutely everything in Rebellion makes sense to the series. It's also a much better conclusion.
I was completely alright with the story ending with that third movie, but since there's more coming, I choose to be optimistic. Nothing wrong with that.
I know. It's quite petty, as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the answer. Still, many kept arguing about the matter for a while. I simply referenced that on a whim.

No wonder someone full of salt like yourself is incapable of enjoying a harmless, parody spin-off.

It completely contradicts multiple facts of the series and characters act in a completely different manner after being mind wiped for no reason, with no consistency. There's no conclusion, just making everything worse without any logic and reason. The whole plot sits on the presume that everything in the movie happens so without any valid explanation just because the authors said/wanted it like that.

Rebellion is a parody spin-off by itself. It's the shitty fan fics that made it into the canon thanks to SHART and their cash grab nature.
DAE LE HOMURA KUBEY EVIL XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD KYOUSAYA 4 LAIF
 
Jul 28, 2017 7:38 AM

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SHART? What the hell is that?
 
Jul 28, 2017 7:40 AM

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EmeraldEye said:
SHART? What the hell is that?

TOP DEFINITION
shart
a small, unintended defecation that occurs when one relaxes the anal sphincter to fart (blend of "shit" and "fart")

It's how SHAFT created Rebellion.
 
Jul 28, 2017 7:50 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:


Absolutely everything in Rebellion makes sense to the series. It's also a much better conclusion.
I was completely alright with the story ending with that third movie, but since there's more coming, I choose to be optimistic. Nothing wrong with that.
I know. It's quite petty, as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the answer. Still, many kept arguing about the matter for a while. I simply referenced that on a whim.

No wonder someone full of salt like yourself is incapable of enjoying a harmless, parody spin-off.

It completely contradicts multiple facts of the series and characters act in a completely different manner after being mind wiped for no reason, with no consistency. There's no conclusion, just making everything worse without any logic and reason. The whole plot sits on the presume that everything in the movie happens so without any valid explanation just because the authors said/wanted it like that.

Rebellion is a parody spin-off by itself. It's the shitty fan fics that made it into the canon thanks to SHART and their cash grab nature.
DAE LE HOMURA KUBEY EVIL XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD KYOUSAYA 4 LAIF


It doesn't contradict anything.
Refusing to spoon-feed the audience does not equate to "unvalid explanations", so you're wrong.
The hints were all there. Not picking them up is your problem.

There is a conclusion. A great one. It leaves room for imagination and lets you fill the gaps by yourself. They call it open-ending.
 
Jul 28, 2017 8:02 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:

It completely contradicts multiple facts of the series and characters act in a completely different manner after being mind wiped for no reason, with no consistency. There's no conclusion, just making everything worse without any logic and reason. The whole plot sits on the presume that everything in the movie happens so without any valid explanation just because the authors said/wanted it like that.

Rebellion is a parody spin-off by itself. It's the shitty fan fics that made it into the canon thanks to SHART and their cash grab nature.
DAE LE HOMURA KUBEY EVIL XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD KYOUSAYA 4 LAIF


It doesn't contradict anything.
Refusing to spoon-feed the audience does not equate to "unvalid explanations", so you're wrong.
The hints were all there. Not picking them up is your problem.

There is a conclusion. A great one. It leaves room for imagination and lets you fill the gaps by yourself. They call it open-ending.

Bullshit. Your shitty fanfics don't explain shit, you can make up your own explanations trying to drive around the numerous plotholes and inconsistencies but that won't make them valid.
Give me the hints at how Homura did what she did at the end and how Sayaka summons her witch form as a Gundam? Why did Kyubey contradict his own words from the original? ("because he is evil" doesn't work)
These are just the easy ones, you have a valid well accepted explanation for them, right?
Have you even thought about the whole setting the story takes place in? If you try to dig deeper you will see how non-sensical it is.

It's more open than the original. At least the first one had ideas and these ideas were complete at the end. This one is just hype fanservice. The story should be told by the authors, not assembled by the fans.
 
Jul 28, 2017 8:11 AM

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Wait, aren't you the guy who keeps hating on Rebellion just because his waifu turned into lesbian? Welp, no discussion here. Btw, I heard Steins;gate 0 got an anime adaptation even though the last episode of S;G ended nicely. Isn't this what we call "milking"?
 
Jul 28, 2017 8:15 AM

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EmeraldEye said:
Wait, aren't you the guy who keeps hating on Rebellion just because his waifu turned into lesbian? Welp, no discussion here. Btw, I heard Steins;gate 0 got an anime adaptation even though the last episode of S;G ended nicely. Isn't this what we call "milking"?

Lol, I wasn't serious when I said that. There are shit ton of other reasons why Rebellion sucks hard.

Steins;Gate 0 is a very necessary part of the story. It serves as a midquel, we saw only the happy ending, but never actually understood what was needed to make it happen. If you want to talk about Steins;Gate being milked then point at the numerous spin-off games and novels.
Hint: They are NOT CANON, contrary to that garbage here.
 
Jul 30, 2017 1:49 AM
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Aquamirror said:
Bullshit. Your shitty fanfics don't explain shit, you can make up your own explanations trying to drive around the numerous plotholes and inconsistencies but that won't make them valid.


The level of salt in this section is so high that I actually lol'd. Quite literally.
I don't write nor read fanfics, so I have no idea what you suddenly started going on about.
It's not a "plot-hole" if it disappears after some thinking. As long as the explanation makes sense and links back to what's presented in the series, then it's valid whether you liked it or not :")

Aquamirror said:
Give me the hints at how Homura did what she did at the end


Her wish. Add to it the potential from Homura's constant time-loops & the "color darker than curses" and voilà. There you have it.

Aquamirror said:
how Sayaka summons her witch form as a Gundam?


Because Sayaka is now part of the Law of Cycles, a phenomenon that absorbs magical girls and the despair which used to turn them into witches. That's self-explanatory. Episode 12 details this stuff.

Aquamirror said:
Why did Kyubey contradict his own words from the original?


What are you referring to, exactly? Quotes? Examples?

Aquamirror said:
Have you even thought about the whole setting the story takes place in? If you try to dig deeper you will see how non-sensical it is.


I did. There are no inconsistencies or anything nonsensical.

Aquamirror said:
The story should be told by the authors, not assembled by the fans.


So the fans actually wrote this? Um, source?

Aquamirror said:
At least the first one had ideas and these ideas were complete at the end.


Rebellion had ideas as well. It also built up on what came before.

Aquamirror said:
It's more open than the original.

Exactly. And that's a plus. Wrapping everything in a nice little bow isn't always a good thing. Leaving some room to breathe is much better.
 
Jul 30, 2017 2:54 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Bullshit. Your shitty fanfics don't explain shit, you can make up your own explanations trying to drive around the numerous plotholes and inconsistencies but that won't make them valid.


The level of salt in this section is so high that I actually lol'd. Quite literally.
I don't write nor read fanfics, so I have no idea what you suddenly started going on about.
It's not a "plot-hole" if it disappears after some thinking. As long as the explanation makes sense and links back to what's presented in the series, then it's valid whether you liked it or not :")

I've yet to see such explanation that makes sense and is consistent with the original. And I'm not talking about just making sense with what is presented in the movie, because the author creating a new setting out of nowhere and making new rules the way he wanted isn't enough to be valid when the series exist and they claim this is a sequel.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Give me the hints at how Homura did what she did at the end


Her wish. Add to it the potential from Homura's constant time-loops & the "color darker than curses" and voilà. There you have it.

That doesn't make sense. Nowhere in the series it is stated the color can change to such degree based on someone's potential and someone could gain and use such powers in that specific moment without even realising what's happening moments ago. Her old wish was already accomplished at the end of episode 12. Unless you state she made another such wish in the post-Madoka world, but that still doesn't make sense as Madoka doesn't exist and that wasn't even revealed at all.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
how Sayaka summons her witch form as a Gundam?


Because Sayaka is now part of the Law of Cycles, a phenomenon that absorbs magical girls and the despair which used to turn them into witches. That's self-explanatory. Episode 12 details this stuff.

Witches don't exist, they aren't absorbed because they never happen. There's no clue that shows magical girls can summon witches by whim. That's just completely illogical.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Why did Kyubey contradict his own words from the original?


What are you referring to, exactly? Quotes? Examples?

The fact that Kyuubey will always ask for permission by his own laws and never force an answer. Lying to and capturing Homura without her knowledge defies his character.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Have you even thought about the whole setting the story takes place in? If you try to dig deeper you will see how non-sensical it is.


I did. There are no inconsistencies or anything nonsensical.

You still give explanations given from the movie, but the movie is incosistent with the original itself. And even the movie is logically weird for itself, if going by movie logic, they never actually destroyed the seal because they are still on another planet(????) with everyone around. Or did the seal even existed? What difference did it made at all..?
If Homura isn't a witch yet she can't create a witch barrier.
And Madoka never actually goes into some dimension inside someone's soul gem.
The whole idea Kyuubey creating such seal is also sloppy.
And they never actually revealed where Homura was all this time, which is kinda weird too I guess.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
The story should be told by the authors, not assembled by the fans.


So the fans actually wrote this? Um, source?

The fact that there are numerous theories that contradict each other and are still inconsistent with the original show that even the fans aren't sure what the fuck are they talking about. Even the symbolism is extremely weak and people are still not sure what everything means.

Fans wrote this, yeah:
> Pretty colors and not-witches so we have opportunity for fights - check
> Random characters getting non-sensical powerups - check
> Yuri ships - check
> Madoka was wrong, le feels make logic valid - check
> Cute SOL moments with happy cake song - check
> Hitomi sucks - check
> Bebe exists - check
> Mami vs Homura fight for absolutely no reason with no result - check
> Boobs - check
> 3 minute transformation sequence - check
> Everyone fighting together with magic combos - check
> Inconsistent memory wipe to move the plot - check
> Shit plot twist - check
> Kyuubey is evil and gets wrecked because he deserved it - check
> Homura did nothing wrong - check
> ...

I've seen numerous fanfics and comics with such ideas, they just enhanced what the fans wanted.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
At least the first one had ideas and these ideas were complete at the end.


Rebellion had ideas as well. It also built up on what came before.

No, it completely disregarded the original material and made up its own that hardly connects to it. Ideas are really weak and serve more as shock-factor masked around the series ending. Wishes and price/suffering which were the core ideas of Madoka Magica aren't even valid here.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
It's more open than the original.

Exactly. And that's a plus. Wrapping everything in a nice little bow isn't always a good thing. Leaving some room to breathe is much better.

Well, the original series also had an open ending. You could do the same there. xd
Leaving some room for more cash grab sequels I'd agree with that.
Modified by Aquamirror, Jul 30, 2017 3:20 AM
 
Aug 1, 2017 3:18 PM

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Aquamirror said:
EmeraldEye said:
Wait, aren't you the guy who keeps hating on Rebellion just because his waifu turned into lesbian? Welp, no discussion here. Btw, I heard Steins;gate 0 got an anime adaptation even though the last episode of S;G ended nicely. Isn't this what we call "milking"?

Lol, I wasn't serious when I said that. There are shit ton of other reasons why Rebellion sucks hard.


I understand. Well, personally, I love Rebellion because the ending was tragic and perfect and it made sense. I love Rebellion because it was awesome to see my favorite magical girls again. I love Rebellion because it twists the definition of "evil". YES IT DID! I love Rebellion because it focused on our tragic hero, Homura, where she again proved that she is willing to suffer in hell for eternity, if it meant protecting Madoka from Incubator(s). Rebellion is also the first movie ever that made me depressed. After watching Rebellion, I didn't know how to watch other anime because Rebellion made me depressed. The ending was...tragic, traumatizing and...I don't know how to describe it.
Have you read this?
https://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Q%26A

Steins;Gate 0 is a very necessary part of the story. It serves as a midquel, we saw only the happy ending, but never actually understood what was needed to make it happen. If you want to talk about Steins;Gate being milked then point at the numerous spin-off games and novels.
Hint: They are NOT CANON, contrary to that garbage here.


Necessary or not, it's still "milking". Okabe saved Makise and the series was concluded nicely so what's the point of this "0" thing then? That's right, "milking" is the answer. I also kind of agree with you that Madoka is being milked, but it isn't being milked as much as the monogatari series, at least. Rebellion was a huge financial success for Studio Shaft, they could have made another movie, right? Well, they didn't. They don't want to ruin the franchise.

If S;G 0 is really necessary, then Madoka: The Different Story is also necessary.

Mod edit: removed deleted post
Modified by Brandon, Aug 10, 2017 11:41 PM
 
Aug 2, 2017 8:13 AM

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EmeraldEye said:
Necessary or not, it's still "milking". Okabe saved Makise and the series was concluded nicely so what's the point of this "0" thing then? That's right, "milking" is the answer. I also kind of agree with you that Madoka is being milked, but it isn't being milked as much as the monogatari series, at least.

And there are still people who claim it's a deus ex machina, forced and anticlimatic ending. Steins;Gate 0 expands the story in absolutely every way, further explaining some important plot points and giving more hints at the future. The original ending you saw was only a small part of what was actually needed to make everything happen. Milking or not, at least it makes perfect sense to the original story.

EmeraldEye said:
Rebellion was a huge financial success for Studio Shaft, they could have made another movie, right? Well, they didn't. They don't want to ruin the franchise.

They didn't? What is this thread about then? They already ruined it with Rebellion lol.

EmeraldEye said:
If S;G 0 is really necessary, then Madoka: The Different Story is also necessary.

The Different Story is useless, have no relevance and provides nothing new (and it's terrible anyway). I don't know how you can compare these two, you probably haven't even played S;G 0 and are talking out of your arsehole again.

Mod edit: removed deleted quote
Modified by Brandon, Aug 10, 2017 11:40 PM
 
Aug 3, 2017 10:55 AM

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Stopped reading that Q&A here:
"After all, they are still not together."

Lol, please.
 
Aug 3, 2017 11:39 AM

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CurrerHime said:
Stopped reading that Q&A here:
"After all, they are still not together."

Lol, please.


Homura dethroned Madoka.
 
Aug 3, 2017 11:47 AM

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EmeraldEye said:
CurrerHime said:
Stopped reading that Q&A here:
"After all, they are still not together."

Lol, please.


Homura dethroned Madoka.


And your point is?
 
Aug 9, 2017 7:35 AM
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Aquamirror said:
The fact that Kyuubey will always ask for permission by his own laws and never force an answer. Lying to and capturing Homura without her knowledge defies his character.

Hold on a second.
Why would Kyubey force the girls to make contracts with him anyway? He doesn't need to. The deal is extremely appealing to pretty much anyone.
Not to mention that his manipulation skills are top-notch. Why create unnecessary animosity when you can just be a sneaky little bastard?
Aquamirror said:
Witches don't exist, they aren't absorbed because they never happen. There's no clue that shows magical girls can summon witches by whim. That's just completely illogical.

Witches don't exist in the Madoverse because the Law of Cycles (i.e. Madokami) absorbs the very thing that creates them, which is the despair of magical girls.
In episode 12, Madoka shoots a rain of arrows. As a result, countless versions of her appear in many different places and eras. You can clearly see her absorbing that black stuff from all the fully tainted soul gems just a fraction of second before they hatch into grief seeds, and thus preventing witches from existing.
"I want to erase them before they are even born", remember?
Aquamirror said:
Her old wish was already accomplished at the end of episode 12.

Not really. Her wish was never granted.
Aquamirror said:
That doesn't make sense. Nowhere in the series it is stated the color can change to such degree based on someone's potential and someone could gain and use such powers in that specific moment without even realising what's happening moments ago.

Madoka's potential became enormous due to the constant time loops, right? It's only logical that Homura's increases as well since she did the time-travelling herself.
Another thing that you're forgetting is that Madokami was taken by surprise before her powers was fully recovered. Overpowering her in that state is much easier.
The colour is just an indication of all the above, the fact that Homura is the first person to ever come back to her senses after transforming to a witch, and her "love".
Aquamirror said:
You still give explanations given from the movie, but the movie is incosistent with the original itself.

What the..? I have referred to the series in almost every single part.
Aquamirror said:
And even the movie is logically weird for itself, if going by movie logic, they never actually destroyed the seal because they are still on another planet(????) with everyone around. Or did the seal even existed? What difference did it made at all..?

Are you talking about the isolation field?
The incubators created the device and used it for their plan. That thing was destroyed about 1 hour into the movie. The experiment was taking place 'somewhere', but that location is irrelevant to us.
Aquamirror said:
If Homura isn't a witch yet she can't create a witch barrier.
And Madoka never actually goes into some dimension inside someone's soul gem.
The whole idea Kyuubey creating such seal is also sloppy.

Did you literally ignore Kyubey's exposition dump completely?! He explained all of this. Go watch it again and then come back.
Aquamirror said:
The fact that there are numerous theories that contradict each other and are still inconsistent with the original show that even the fans aren't sure what the fuck are they talking about. Even the symbolism is extremely weak and people are still not sure what everything means.

Fans wrote this, yeah:
> Pretty colors and not-witches so we have opportunity for fights - check
> Random characters getting non-sensical powerups - check
> Yuri ships - check
> Madoka was wrong, le feels make logic valid - check
> Cute SOL moments with happy cake song - check
> Hitomi sucks - check
> Bebe exists - check
> Mami vs Homura fight for absolutely no reason with no result - check
> Boobs - check
> 3 minute transformation sequence - check
> Everyone fighting together with magic combos - check
> Inconsistent memory wipe to move the plot - check
> Shit plot twist - check
> Kyuubey is evil and gets wrecked because he deserved it - check
> Homura did nothing wrong - check
> ...

I've seen numerous fanfics and comics with such ideas, they just enhanced what the fans wanted.

"enhanced"? lol.
If anything, Rebellion was perceived as a slap in the face by many fans.
A good number of them are pissed because their waifu became an "evil" lesbian (even though I like that development A LOT).

The first 30 minutes (or so) were PERFECT. The happy-go-lucky atmosphere was eerie and strange. Everything was weird.
"This is a sequel, right? RIGHT?! If so, what the hell is going on here??!"
I was constantly kept on the edge of my seat wondering and questioning stuff. Bebe is just the icing on the cake. Her presence made the mood even creepier.
Moreover, by your logic, the first 3 episodes of the series are also useless. We should totally remove them, right?

Say what you will, but the Mami vs Homura scene is pure awesomeness. You can go ahead and complain all day, but nothing will change this reality. There's just no hope :"}
More importantly, the fight gave us more insight into the characters & their abilities. It showed that Mami is quite smart and a huge troll. Homura's idea of shooting herself was fucking brilliant in many ways. Not to mention the epic soundtrack and animation. Everything in it was just so damn flawless.
And no, it did happen for a good reason. An obvious one. I'm fine with criticisms, but don't start blind-hating on me. I'll have a hard time taking you seriously with that attitude.

The rest of the list is just you pointing out random stuff that don't mean anything. None of it qualifies as any evidence.
I don't care why & how the move was made anyway. What happened behind the scenes of the production is irrelevant. The important thing is what I have in front of me. If it's a great work, I'll praise it. If it's crap, I'll complain about it everywhere until I'm satisfied.
Aquamirror said:
No, it completely disregarded the original material and made up its own that hardly connects to it.

Nope :")
Aquamirror said:
Ideas are really weak and serve more as shock-factor masked around the series ending.

That's, like, your opinion man? JK.
Anyway, I disagree completely.
Aquamirror said:
Wishes and price/suffering which were the core ideas of Madoka Magica aren't even valid here.

The bullshit level on this one is so high. I don't even..
Aquamirror said:
Well, the original series also had an open ending. You could do the same there.

Nah. You said it yourself: the new finale is more open.
So no, I can't do the same there.
Aquamirror said:
Leaving some room for more cash grab sequels I'd agree with that.

No. You've missed my point.
Wether they decide to make a new sequel or not has nothing to do with me. I'm happy with things finishing with Rebellion.
They can choose to never make a continuation for all I care.

Mod edit: removed spam
Modified by AmMar-Sama, Aug 20, 2017 5:25 AM
 
Aug 9, 2017 9:11 AM

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AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
The fact that Kyuubey will always ask for permission by his own laws and never force an answer. Lying to and capturing Homura without her knowledge defies his character.

Hold on a second.
Why would Kyubey force the girls to make contracts with him anyway? He doesn't need to. The deal is extremely appealing to pretty much anyone.
Not to mention that his manipulation skills are top-notch. Why create unnecessary animosity when you can just be a sneaky little bastard?

Because that's how his laws operate. He strictly said he can't force others. If he wanted to cheat he could already do what he wanted without asking anyone, but that isn't the case. He isn't that evil as everyone (and Rebellion) claims him to be.
And here he could take literally any girl and do the same as with Homura, but he chose exactly her because le plot demands it.. and of course he fails because of that, yay.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Witches don't exist, they aren't absorbed because they never happen. There's no clue that shows magical girls can summon witches by whim. That's just completely illogical.

Witches don't exist in the Madoverse because the Law of Cycles (i.e. Madokami) absorbs the very thing that creates them, which is the despair of magical girls.
In episode 12, Madoka shoots a rain of arrows. As a result, countless versions of her appear in many different places and eras. You can clearly see her absorbing that black stuff from the all the fully tainted soul gems just a fraction of second before they hatch into grief seeds, and thus preventing witches from existing.
"I want to erase them before they are even born", remember?

Yes, I've watched ep 12 too. Where did you read "absorb them so I can summon them later by whim" (for no fucking reason)? I mean erasing mean exactly that.. erasing, duh. If you summon a witch as a Gundam, isn't that also technically birth? I thought Madoka became just a concept with a speific purpose, why does she has such an ability that affects reality?

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Her old wish was already accomplished at the end of episode 12.

Not really. Her wish was never granted.

Huh? How so, she lived a live protecting Madoka and succeeded, the world got rebuilded completely, there's no reason why her original wish should still be valid.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
That doesn't make sense. Nowhere in the series it is stated the color can change to such degree based on someone's potential and someone could gain and use such powers in that specific moment without even realising what's happening moments ago.

Madoka's potential became enormous due to the constant time loops, right? It's only logical that Homura's increases as well since she did the time-travelling herself.
Another thing that you're forgetting is that Madokami was taken by surprise before her powers was fully recovered. Overpowering her in that state is much easier.
The colour is just an indication of all the above, the fact that Homura is the first person to ever come back to her senses after transforming to a witch, and her "love".

Does she still have the time travel power though? Her shield is gone, that was literally the device that gave her the powers. Her potential shouldn't play role in the post-Madoka world, especially by giving her powers out of nowhere that overpower the laws of the universe! There's no explanation how that even works except "plot demands it" XD.
She was a human, turned into a witch (??) and then came back as a human again (??). That's just breaks logic.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
And even the movie is logically weird for itself, if going by movie logic, they never actually destroyed the seal because they are still on another planet(????) with everyone around. Or did the seal even existed? What difference did it made at all..?

Are you talking about the isolation field?
The incubators created the device and used it for their plan. That thing was destroyed about 1 hour into the movie. The experiment was taking place 'somewhere', but that location is irrelevant to us.

"Irrelevant" isn't a satisfactory answer when the whole focus of the movie is that field. What was that planet? How the in-barrier world worked? What were these "millions" of Kyubeys there? What exactly happened after the seal was broken? ...
and many more .. ?? ..

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
If Homura isn't a witch yet she can't create a witch barrier.
And Madoka never actually goes into some dimension inside someone's soul gem.
The whole idea Kyuubey creating such seal is also sloppy.

Did you literally ignore Kyubey's exposition dump completely?! He explained all of this. Go watch it again and then come back.

That doesn't explain how the witch barrier exists. And if such thing exist, then the soul gem should turn into a grief seed as well. And even then, a barrier wouldn't exist inside the soul gem. There's also no reason why non-magical girls should also be there, if we accept Hitomi, the teacher and etc. are real. And why did Madoka forget everything but not Sayaka if it affects everyone?

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
The fact that there are numerous theories that contradict each other and are still inconsistent with the original show that even the fans aren't sure what the fuck are they talking about. Even the symbolism is extremely weak and people are still not sure what everything means.

Fans wrote this, yeah:


I've seen numerous fanfics and comics with such ideas, they just enhanced what the fans wanted.

"enhanced"? lol.
If anything, Rebellion was perceived as a slap in the face by many fans.
A good number of them are pissed because their waifu became an "evil" lesbian (even though I like that development A LOT).

The first 30 minutes (or so) were PERFECT. The happy-go-lucky atmosphere was eerie and strange. Everything was weird.
"This is a sequel, right? RIGHT?! If so, what the hell is going on here??!"
I was constantly kept on the edge of my seat wondering and questioning stuff. Bebe is just the icing on the cake. Her presence made the mood even creepier.
Moreover, by your logic, the first 3 episodes of the series are also useless. We should totally remove them, right?

Say what you will, but the Mami vs Homura scene is pure awesomeness. You can go ahead and complain all day, but nothing will change this fact. There's just no hope :"}
More importantly, the fight gave us more insight into the characters & their abilities. It showed that Mami is quite smart and a huge troll. Homura's idea of shooting herself was fucking brilliant in many ways. Not to mention the epic soundtrack and animation. Everything in it was just so damn flawless.
And no, it did happen for a good reason. An obvious one. I'm fine with criticisms, but don't start blind-hating on me. I'll have a hard time taking you seriously with that attitude.

The rest of the list is just you pointing out random stuff that don't mean anything. None of it qualifies as any evidence.
I don't care why & how the move was made anyway. What happened behind the scenes of the production is irrelevant. The important thing is what I have in front of me. If it's a great work, I'll praise it. If it's crap, I'll bitch about it everywhere until I'm satisfied.

Enhanced as in refined fans "wishes" (lul) and mashed them together for the ultime cash/merch grab.
Still many fans liked it and SHAFT continues going into that direction.

The first 30 minutes are literally useless fanservice, absolutely nothing happens there except stall. Could have been presented in a much better way and still make the charactes act realistic like themselves while still having the mystery. That's ignoring the whole plot is just weak.
Madoka was dark since the first episode, if you are implying the 3 episodes were useless because nobody died yet, that is absolutely retarded. Don't compare the series' building and exposition with the nothingness here.
Bebe is just another retardation technique to harm the characterization of the original. Hehehehe Mami died heheheh Sayaka died hehe it is so funny hehe, look at this plushy hehe pls buy it now hehe.

The fight was awesome visually, yes. That still doesn't change the fact it was completely useless story wise and the reason it started and the way it ended was pure stupidity.
I'm not blind hating. Presenting facts that you don't agree with doesn't make me a hater.
They mean exactly that, full disparity in settings and characterization from the original. Ignoring them because you think they are irellevant further proves you don't care about the franchise as long as you get your pretty colors and mindless action.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
No, it completely disregarded the original material and made up its own that hardly connects to it.

Nope :")

Aquamirror said:
Ideas are really weak and serve more as shock-factor masked around the series ending.

That's, like, your opinion man? JK.
Anyway, I disagree completely.

Prove it or stay low. "But it looks awesome" isn't a valid prove for anything.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Wishes and price/suffering which were the core ideas of Madoka Magica aren't even valid here.

The bullshit level on this one is so high. I don't even..

How so? All wishes got nullified, we got a new world, everyone is alive again. The series are completely irrelevant at this point.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Well, the original series also had an open ending. You could do the same there.

Nah. You said it yourself: the new finale is more open.
So no, I can't do the same there.

Um, what? More open or less open doesn't make any difference. You can fantasize in both cases.

AmMar-Sama said:
Aquamirror said:
Leaving some room for more cash grab sequels I'd agree with that.

No. You've missed my point.
Wether they decide to make a new sequel or not has nothing to do with me. I'm happy with things finishing with Rebellion.
They can decide to never make a continuation for all I care.

I very much hope so.

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Modified by Brandon, Aug 10, 2017 10:41 PM
 
Aug 9, 2017 11:58 AM
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Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:

Hold on a second.
Why would Kyubey force the girls to make contracts with him anyway? He doesn't need to. The deal is extremely appealing to pretty much anyone.
Not to mention that his manipulation skills are top-notch. Why create unnecessary animosity when you can just be a sneaky little bastard?

Because that's how his laws operate. He strictly said he can't force others. If he wanted to cheat he could already do what he wanted without asking anyone, but that isn't the case. He isn't that evil as everyone (and Rebellion) claims him to be.
And here he could take literally any girl and do the same as with Homura, but he chose exactly her because le plot demands it.. and of course he fails because of that, yay.

I have replied to every single thing you said here already. Read the above part again.
I don't think that Kyubey is evil btw, so stop bringing this up in the discussion.
Aquamirror said:
Yes, I've watched ep 12 too.

I know. But you forced me to go through that dull explanation because of the "they aren't absorbed" part. You were twisting my words, so what do you expect? Of course I'd feel the need to spell things out once more.
Aquamirror said:
I mean erasing mean exactly that.. erasing, duh.

Except that works by absorption, duh. It was clearly shown and talked about.
Aquamirror said:
If you summon a witch as a Gundam, isn't that also technically birth?

No. The thing that summons witches is present in LoC. It's not ''birth'' but ''use''.
Sayaka just took that thing and learned how to summon them in MG heaven, or something? It's really not that difficult to grasp.
Aquamirror said:
Where did you read "absorb them so I can summon them later by whim"?

I didn't. This isn't rocket science. I can figure it out myself.
Was something around the lines of ''witches and magical girls are actually two sides of the same coin" written somewhere before it was told to us?
It wasnt! = asspull!!!
See your problem?
Aquamirror said:
she lived a live protecting Madoka and succeeded

So you call letting Madoka abandon her family, friends and give up on her normal life to turn into some deity that shoulders a huge burden for an eternity a ''success in protecting her"? I'm baffled.
I don't think so. It's called ''sacrifice'' for a reason.
Homura clearly doesn't think so either. She completely failed at keeping her promise.
Aquamirror said:
there's no reason why her original wish should still be valid.

So there's also no reason for her to remember things about the previous universe, I guess?
Aquamirror said:
Does she still have the time travel power though? Her shield is gone, that was literally the device that gave her the powers. Her potential shouldn't play role in the post-Madoka world

No, but her ''potential'' remains. Again, her memories stayed soo..
Aquamirror said:
powers out of nowhere that overpower the laws of the universe!

It's a combination of her powers and the ones she took from Madokami. Not that complicated.
Aquamirror said:
She was a human, turned into a witch (??) and then came back as a human again (??). That's just breaks logic.

It really doesn't. The very person that is the centre of Homura's despair came for her. Makes perfect sense.
Aquamirror said:
"Irrelevant" isn't a satisfactory answer when the whole focus of the movie is that field. What was that planet?

I don't know. The experiment took place 'somewhere'. It could be another planet, or in some other place on earth. I don't care.
Who gives a damn about the location anyway? What will you do with that information? It's irrelevant because it won't add much.
Aquamirror said:
How the in-barrier world worked?

That was explained by Kyubey in detail. Re-watch the exposition dump scene. Won't go over it again just to get another ''I watched it too, you know''.
Aquamirror said:
What were these "millions" of Kyubeys there?

What do you mean by 'what'? They are some other incubators. Simple as that. It was hinted at many times throughout the series that they are a full race.
Aquamirror said:
What exactly happened after the seal was broken? ...

Um, they went outside...?
Aquamirror said:
and many more .. ?? ..

Give me more examples then..??
Aquamirror said:
That doesn't explain how the witch barrier exists. And if such thing exist, then the soul gem should turn into a grief seed as well. And even then, a barrier wouldn't exist inside the soul gem.

The barriers are created inside the soul gems. After accumulating despair and becoming full, a soul gem will hatch into a grief seed - releasing the labyrinth along with its witch. We've already seen this happen with Sayaka in episodes 8-9.
Homura's soul gem is an exception. It didn't turn into a grief seed even though it was fully tainted because the incubators put it into a sleeping state. Kyubey pretty much said this word-for-word. You've ignored something that was directly spoon-fed to the audience. Unbelievable.
Aquamirror said:
There's also no reason why non-magical girls should also be there, if we accept Hitomi, the teacher and etc. are real.

This was also explained. We're talking about witch labyrinths here. Witches lure ''victims'' inside their barrier, no?
Aquamirror said:
And why did Madoka forget everything but not Sayaka if it affects everyone?

That's Madokami's plan. She entrusted her powers to Sayaka and bebe & gave them a mission.
Aquamirror said:
Enhanced as in refined fans "wishes" (lul) and mashed them together for the ultime cash/merch grab.
Still many fans liked it and SHAFT continues going into that direction.

The first 30 minutes are literally useless fanservice, absolutely nothing happens there except stall. Could have been presented in a much better way and still make the charactes act realistic like themselves while still having the mystery. That's ignoring the whole plot is just weak.
Madoka was dark since the first episode, if you are implying the 3 episodes were useless because nobody died yet, that is absolutely retarded. Don't compare the series' building and exposition with the nothingness here.
Bebe is just another retardation technique to harm the characterization of the original. Hehehehe Mami died heheheh Sayaka died hehe it is so funny hehe, look at this plushy hehe pls buy it now hehe.

The fight was awesome visually, yes. That still doesn't change the fact it was completely useless story wise and the reason it started and the way it ended was pure stupidity.
I'm not blind hating. Presenting facts that you don't agree with doesn't make me a hater.
They mean exactly that, full disparity in settings and characterization from the original. Ignoring them because you think they are irellevant further proves you don't care about the franchise as long as you get your pretty colors and mindless action.


My point here is that if Shaft did actually want to play it safe and milk the franchise in the best way possible, they wouldn't make Homura 'turn' into an "evil" lesbian. This resulted in a backlash from many. There are simpler routes to take, but they didn't pick any of them.

If you have better ideas, detail them. Don't be vague. So you can make the prologue even more perfect that it already is? Show me how.
Nope. Death has nothing to do with being dark. Nothing in my reply implies any of that, so don't start putting words in my mouth.
Well, guess what? Rebellion sets the mood from the very beginning. It was a little creepy despite looking cheerful, and had world-building as well. Just like the majority of episodes 1-3.
P.S. I obviously don't see the beginning of the TV series as useless. That was just me throwing your logic back in your face. Wasn't the sarcasm obvious?

You can disagree with me all you want, that's fine. You can dislike the fight - I don't care. However, saying that Mami and Homura were at each other's throats for no reason is blind-hating. The reason is as clear as day. We've been discussing this for a while, but I never ever accused you of being a ''hater'', even though your tone was salty at times. Why? Think about it for a second. I only did it here because what you uttered in this specific part was ridiculous.
And btw, the fight scene isn't just awesome visually. It's great from many other sides, and I mentioned a few. It's also functional story-wise.

No. Your list was long, nonsensical and didn't mean anything. It doesn't explain much. You know this very well, so don't give me that.
I see no disparity. If you think there is, pick each line and clarify your hows & whys.
I care about this franchise a lot. I ignored your list because it has no relation to your point and doesn't show much. That doesn't mean I don't care about all the things you mentioned, though. You are making assumptions out of nowhere and linking two unrelated things together.

Aquamirror said:
AmMar-Sama said:

Nope :")


That's, like, your opinion man? JK.
Anyway, I disagree completely.

Prove it or stay low. "But it looks awesome" isn't a valid prove for anything.

You didn't prove anything either, though? If you don't detail anything, I'm not going to bother.
"Ideas are weak" without a clarification will just get you a ''no, they aren't''. And that's only if I feel like it. Sometimes I blatantly ignore random, undefined claims.
I don't care enough to spend time typing a massive paragraph under every line of yours or go around expressing my disagreement with a 'lol, nope' everywhere.

Aquamirror said:
More open or less open doesn't make any difference.

What the..?
Do you realize that you've just put 'more', 'less' and 'doesn't make any difference' in the same sentence? Is that an intentional oxymoron or what? This part stinks of contradiction no matter how many times I read it.

Mod edit: removed deleted quote
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Aug 10, 2017 11:43 PM
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Thread cleaned.

If you wish to argue then please do so out of forums. This is an episode/movie discussion thread, not a place to debate and insult other users.

 
Jan 28, 2018 1:16 AM

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@Aquamirror The ending is really quite bad and infuriating but I honestly hope for a 4th movie because then they at least have a chance to retcon said ending.
 
Feb 19, 2018 5:41 AM

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still waiting....
 
Sep 24, 2018 7:15 PM

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I should rewatch Princess Tutu at some point, because I remember that these two things would go well together. xD
 
Nov 9, 2018 9:22 AM

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Life asked death:
"Why do people love me but hate you?"
And death replied:
"Because you are a beautiful lie, and I'm the ugly truth."
 
Feb 15, 4:48 PM

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Hmm, very weird *movie*... Now, only the real movies are left, time to watch 'em!
Wanna try a really risky but fun anime watching challenge?
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1784108
 
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