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Why do people seek out the religious to mock

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Nov 21, 2015 1:27 AM

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geniobastardo said:
LionCake said:


Its kind of simple philosphy to not believe in something thats not observable, has no evidence of its existence, and is something impossible to prove.


That's an empiricist's approach, not a rationalist's.


That is true, but rationalists also dont agree with religion.
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:30 AM

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LionCake said:


That is true, but rationalists also dont agree with religion.


That again doesn't prove anything. Literally every scientist or philosopher of Islamic Golden Age was an 'Empiricist' and almost every scientist from Renaissance Europe was a 'Rationalist' yet, they were all religious. One must understand that there is simply no way, in whatever numbers of hell there is, that 'what and how' can ever be in a conflict with 'why'.
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!''
~Oscar
[/i]
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:34 AM

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geniobastardo said:
LionCake said:


That is true, but rationalists also dont agree with religion.


That again doesn't prove anything. Literally every scientist or philosopher of Islamic Golden Age was an 'Empiricist' and almost every scientist from Renaissance Europe was a 'Rationalist' yet, they were all religious. One must understand that there is simply no way, in whatever numbers of hell there is, that 'what and how' can ever be in a conflict with 'why'.


Something I notice is that people will react and think out of pure science and logic. But the moment it comes to faith, they completely change their way of thinking. They exclude their religion.

But no, I am not trying to prove anything. I dont feel like debating at 1 in the morning.
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:38 AM

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LionCake said:


Something I notice is that people will react and think out of pure science and logic. But the moment it comes to faith, they completely change their way of thinking. They exclude their religion.

But no, I am not trying to prove anything. I dont feel like debating at 1 in the morning.


No problems with that. But the point I'm trying to make is that: Imagine your seeing an apple for the first time. You question: What is it? one certain branch of science replies, ''It's an apple, a food item''. Then you ask: ''How is it a food item?" and another branch of science replies, ''Because it has the necessary nutrients for growth etc''. And then you ask, ''why does it exist?'', and there no science will hold. There comes in philosophy a.k.a religion. Whatever philosophy you may conjure up can never conflict with science. If it does, then you're neither doing the philosophy right, nor the science.
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!''
~Oscar
[/i]
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:45 AM

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geniobastardo said:
LionCake said:


Something I notice is that people will react and think out of pure science and logic. But the moment it comes to faith, they completely change their way of thinking. They exclude their religion.

But no, I am not trying to prove anything. I dont feel like debating at 1 in the morning.


No problems with that. But the point I'm trying to make is that: Imagine your seeing an apple for the first time. You question: What is it? one certain branch of science replies, ''It's an apple, a food item''. Then you ask: ''How is it a food item?" and another branch of science replies, ''Because it has the necessary nutrients for growth etc''. And then you ask, ''why does it exist?'', and there no science will hold. There comes in philosophy a.k.a religion. Whatever philosophy you may conjure up can never conflict with science. If it does, then you're neither doing the philosophy right, nor the science.


To me thats where you stop delving. I dont know why it exists. There is no evidence or reason of any kind that will explain why it exists. So I simply say, "I dont know." I dont try to come up a reason for why it exists. Because I lack any basic materials to even construct a reason for why. It would be foolish to, because theres no way to know if its right or wrong. In that case, its best to just maintain the default stance. But I guess that way of thinking is also a philosophy as well. Not sure, I dont really know all of the semantics and terminology of philosophy like you do.
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:50 AM

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LionCake said:

To me thats where you stop delving. I dont know why it exists. There is no evidence or reason of any kind that will explain why it exists. So I simply say, "I dont know." I dont try to come up a reason for why it exists. Because I lack any basic materials to even construct a reason for why. It would be foolish to, because theres no way to know if its right or wrong. In that case, its best to just maintain the default stance. But I guess that way of thinking is also a philosophy as well. Not sure, I dont really know all of the semantics and terminology of philosophy like you do.


There was no material way of defining 'numbers' - yet we did. It's not foolish. You have to understand, not everything in this world can be tested through experimentation (Got to apologize to my ancestors from Islamic Golden Age on this one). The mind will forever long to question. You cannot simply shut them back to your subconscious mind. Having your own explanations for thing cannot be wrong unless they conflict with the material - which they cannot unless you've perceived 'material' the wrong way or you've conceived the immaterial the wrong way. That is why there's simply no way we can discredit religions as being irrational or whatnot because rationality doesn't tread into that territory. Philosophy is a whole another monster.
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!''
~Oscar
[/i]
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:56 AM

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geniobastardo said:
LionCake said:

To me thats where you stop delving. I dont know why it exists. There is no evidence or reason of any kind that will explain why it exists. So I simply say, "I dont know." I dont try to come up a reason for why it exists. Because I lack any basic materials to even construct a reason for why. It would be foolish to, because theres no way to know if its right or wrong. In that case, its best to just maintain the default stance. But I guess that way of thinking is also a philosophy as well. Not sure, I dont really know all of the semantics and terminology of philosophy like you do.


There was no material way of defining 'numbers' - yet we did. It's not foolish. You have to understand, not everything in this world can be tested through experimentation (Got to apologize to my ancestors from Islamic Golden Age on this one). The mind will forever long to question. You cannot simply shut them back to your subconscious mind. Having your own explanations for thing cannot be wrong unless they conflict with the material - which they cannot unless you've perceived 'material' the wrong way or you've conceived the immaterial the wrong way. That is why there's simply no way we can discredit religions as being irrational or whatnot because rationality doesn't tread into that territory. Philosophy is a whole another monster.


Mathematics exists as its own entity independent of the human mind in an empericist belief.
 
Nov 21, 2015 2:00 AM

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LionCake said:


Mathematics exists as its own entity independent of the human mind in an empericist belief.


Then so can religion.
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!''
~Oscar
[/i]
 
Nov 21, 2015 2:06 AM

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geniobastardo said:
LionCake said:


Mathematics exists as its own entity independent of the human mind in an empericist belief.


Then so can religion.


Oh man this is going too deep for me. I really dont want to put in the effort to give an explanation for why I dont belive that is true. So I guess I will just agree to disagree.
 
Nov 21, 2015 2:12 AM

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Well, the Bible made quite a big deal about the apple. What does the Quran have to say on the issue?
 
Nov 21, 2015 7:02 AM

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Altairius said:
Well, the Bible made quite a big deal about the apple. What does the Quran have to say on the issue?


It doesn't even specify the 'apple'. It neither blames Adam nor Eve, or it blames both for committing the sin.
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!''
~Oscar
[/i]
 
Nov 21, 2015 7:13 AM

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Because they can't get pussy


 
Nov 21, 2015 7:35 AM

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Everyone has an opinion and if you don't embrace it with open legs and your dick hard as a rock in preparation for their divine words of wisdom, well, they'll have to let you know. HOW COULD THEY REST KNOWING THERE WAS SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO WAS RELUCTANT TO HEAR THEIR IMPORTANT IDEAS!?

 
Nov 21, 2015 9:34 AM

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LionCake said:
geniobastardo said:


There was no material way of defining 'numbers' - yet we did. It's not foolish. You have to understand, not everything in this world can be tested through experimentation (Got to apologize to my ancestors from Islamic Golden Age on this one). The mind will forever long to question. You cannot simply shut them back to your subconscious mind. Having your own explanations for thing cannot be wrong unless they conflict with the material - which they cannot unless you've perceived 'material' the wrong way or you've conceived the immaterial the wrong way. That is why there's simply no way we can discredit religions as being irrational or whatnot because rationality doesn't tread into that territory. Philosophy is a whole another monster.


Mathematics exists as its own entity independent of the human mind in an empericist belief.


Why is empiricism the right way to go? Let's see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.
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Nov 21, 2015 12:32 PM

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Bernkastel said:
geniobastardo said:

That's an empiricist's approach, not a rationalist's.

It takes much greater intelligence to win a debate from a theist position convincingly. That alone shows atheism is more compatible with our modern reasoning.

I don't think it's possible to be rational and accept radical religious views, but there are many highly intelligent thinkers who believe some kind of God. Ironically because intelligence lets you derive your own worldview on a far greater level, from my observations, highly gifted adults tend to be theists (with their own definitions) or post-theists. Predominantly the latter.


Yet it's possible they used their intelligence to reach a wrong conclusion - they used intelligence to throw away all opposing arguments, even the right ones.

But I wouldn't judge a person's intelligence solely on their religious views. I have two friends, one's religious and the other is an atheist. The religious one is far better at explaining his position than the religious.

@geniobastardo: Atheism is far more common in rationalist (LessWrong for example) and scientific communities. I'm saying it's connected, not necessarily that it's the more rational conclusion (Even though I believe it).
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Nov 21, 2015 12:56 PM

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Pirating_Ninja said:
Says the same guy bashing an entire religion based on the actions of .0001% (or less) of those that follow that religion.

I think the better question here is why can't the kettle see when it is calling the pot black?


I would denounce any religiously motivated group causing harm. If Christians terrorists started blowing people away I'd denounce them too. I assume you're trying to say im some kind of Islamophobe even though I was to study Arabic at college as I consider it to be one of the worlds most beautiful languages and had intended to read the Quran (in its original format) myself for study purposes. I denounced American troops destruction of Iraq's holy places back when they still occupied the area a few years ago. A person who understands the rich cultural history of the land they come from and would love nothing better than to see those places safe from ISIS and their destruction of holy sites and even visit the more Holy locations of their faith myself.

You see even though I follow one faith I'd never cut myself off from experiencing the belief or cultures of others. Any place that gathers so many followers is full of a feeling beyond simple understanding.

don't worru I'll forgivu your unintentional ad hominem in place of arguing the topic.
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Nov 21, 2015 1:00 PM

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Because some people are dicks.
 
Nov 21, 2015 1:09 PM

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even people get massacred just because they being communists

i remember reason why some religious people disgust me. religious people usually are easier to judge others, and their views are usually narrower than normal people. yhey have principle, and that principle are believed as the absolute right.
Modified by Akihiko86, Nov 21, 2015 4:40 PM
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