Is Islam "The Religion of peace"?
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: No. I just don't see what Christian terror has to do with anything here. You need to prove it or else it has nothing to do with the discussion. Christian terror has all to do with this; islam and christianity are basically the same religion. CondemneDio said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_(film) Also: the Irelands catholics and protestants. There's some food for thought. What do any of these have to do with Islam? |
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TheBrainintheJar said: What do any of these have to do with Islam? The fact that they are terrorism based on religion, and islam and christianity are basically the same religion. Just like with islam, christianity has extremists and terrorism. Neither of them are the religion of peace. |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: What do any of these have to do with Islam? The fact that they are terrorism based on religion, and islam and christianity are basically the same religion. Just like with islam, christianity has extremists and terrorism. Neither of them are the religion of peace. Christianity and Islam are not the same. First off, ISIS kills a lot of Christians. Second, they have different scriptures. Third, does the Bible contain as verses such as these? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm Make sure to avoid this cliche: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm |
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CondemneDio said: [/quote]Also: the Irelands catholics and protestants. There's some food for thought. I'm sorry but what?The catholic and protestant communities in Ireland are extremely open-minded, just look at the results of the same sex referendum which might I add was a first in the world. |
| I've been here way too long... |
TheBrainintheJar said: Christianity and Islam are not the same. First off, ISIS kills a lot of Christians. Second, they have different scriptures. Third, does the Bible contain as verses such as these? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm Make sure to avoid this cliche: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm They are both Abrahamic religions, and share many similarities; the biggest diiference is that they have different prophets. ISIS has nothing to do with whether christianity and islam are similar. You seem too eager to make that point. The bible has violent verses too; cherry picking verses from quran will get you nowhere. TheConquerer said: CondemneDio said: Also: the Irelands catholics and protestants. There's some food for thought. I'm sorry but what?The catholic and protestant communities in Ireland are extremely open-minded, just look at the results of the same sex referendum which might I add was a first in the world.[/quote] They had some fine quarrels between each other back in the day, you know? |
CondemneDio said: They had some fine quarrels between each other back in the day, you know? Well if you're referring to the troubles that was because of political issies rather than religious ones, discriminatiom against catholics in Belfast and LondonDerry were common but it was mostly the fact that they were Irish and the others were British more so than anything, a real us vs them scenario. |
| I've been here way too long... |
TheConquerer said: CondemneDio said: They had some fine quarrels between each other back in the day, you know? Well if you're referring to the troubles that was because of political issies rather than religious ones, discriminatiom against catholics in Belfast and LondonDerry were common but it was mostly the fact that they were Irish and the others were British more so than anything, a real us vs them scenario. I acknowledge this, but I think religion certainly was not a helpful thing either. If anything, it reinforced this bipolar mentality. |
CondemneDio said: I acknowledge this, but I think religion certainly was not a helpful thing either. If anything, it reinforced this bipolar mentality. Yes of course what I mean is that this seems kinda different to Muslim terrorist in many many ways. I don't think I need to say why. |
| I've been here way too long... |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: Christianity and Islam are not the same. First off, ISIS kills a lot of Christians. Second, they have different scriptures. Third, does the Bible contain as verses such as these? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm Make sure to avoid this cliche: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm They are both Abrahamic religions, and share many similarities; the biggest diiference is that they have different prophets. ISIS has nothing to do with whether christianity and islam are similar. You seem too eager to make that point. The bible has violent verses too; cherry picking verses from quran will get you nowhere. TheConquerer said: I'm sorry but what?The catholic and protestant communities in Ireland are extremely open-minded, just look at the results of the same sex referendum which might I add was a first in the world. They had some fine quarrels between each other back in the day, you know?[/quote] Different prophets is a big deal. Even in Judaism, different prophets expressed vastly different ideas. I presented to you an argument why the Bible's violence is unlike the Quran's. You presented nothing but just said I'm cherry-picking. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: Different prophets is a big deal. Even in Judaism, different prophets expressed vastly different ideas. I presented to you an argument why the Bible's violence is unlike the Quran's. You presented nothing but just said I'm cherry-picking. The base is still the same; a violent religion, that does not deny the use of violence. If you can only present negative evidence for one religion, and only positive for another; yeah, you're cherry picking. Try switching them out sometime. |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: Why mention Christianity anyway then? If they're so similar, why don't I see evidence for it or terror attacks by Christians? Are you denying the terror christians have done in the past? RedRoseFring said: Lol. Capitalism is basically the same as communism, they just have different borders. Yeah, actually. These two are economic/state models. Religion and philosophy ask the same questions, but religion answers them all with a god. So Russia is basically the same as the U.S. Are you listening to thyself? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: Christianity and Islam are not the same. First off, ISIS kills a lot of Christians. Second, they have different scriptures. Third, does the Bible contain as verses such as these? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm Make sure to avoid this cliche: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm They are both Abrahamic religions, and share many similarities; the biggest diiference is that they have different prophets. ISIS has nothing to do with whether christianity and islam are similar. You seem too eager to make that point. The bible has violent verses too; cherry picking verses from quran will get you nowhere. Come one Dio. Your ignorance is showing. I don't know how many times I have to repeat "if you are going to hate/refute something, at least be accurate." |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| You know what's even more violent than all the religions put together? |
 |
| Religion is neither peaceful or violent, it's the individual person that adapts any certain religion for their own need. It's us that's the problem. We're all violent, peaceful, docile, or angry. https://youtu.be/6ibKWVTFSak |
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CondemneDio said: The bible has violent verses too; cherry picking verses from quran will get you nowhere. Are you seriously too dense to discern the difference between violent history and violent instruction? Do you honestly not understand the difference between 'wow that sure was a violent history us humans had' and 'wow that sure should be a violent future us humans want'? Cherry picking verses from historical text and cherry picking verses from instruction are entirely different things, and both of those fail to take into account the most obvious truth: the violence Islam causes right now. Whatever; I hope they get on with it fast enough that your children won't suffer. What really disgusts me is the people living comfortable lives now and throwing their children under the bus without so much as an affectation of awareness. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| I don't know about Islam itself (the religion) but its followers (muslims) are not the most peaceful people out there. |
RedRoseFring said: So Russia is basically the same as the U.S. Are you listening to thyself? Both are big countries, with a big GDP, a powerful military, and are politically important on a global scale. The biggest differences are the language, and the people (they are as crazy as each other though:D). RedRoseFring said: Come one Dio. Your ignorance is showing. I don't know how many times I have to repeat "if you are going to hate/refute something, at least be accurate." Nah, christianity and islam are way more similar than, say, christianity and buddhism. Shared origins mean a lot. Caelidesu said: Are you seriously too dense to discern the difference between violent history and violent instruction? Do you honestly not understand the difference between 'wow that sure was a violent history us humans had' and 'wow that sure should be a violent future us humans want'? Cherry picking verses from historical text and cherry picking verses from instruction are entirely different things, and both of those fail to take into account the most obvious truth: the violence Islam causes right now. Whatever; I hope they get on with it fast enough that your children won't suffer. What really disgusts me is the people living comfortable lives now and throwing their children under the bus without so much as an affectation of awareness. So you're clairvoyant, eh? How can you know christianity will not be a violent religion in the far future? Islam is the current problem, I agree. That does not mean I will give christianity a free pass; in the wrong hands it is just as harmful as islam. |
Rat said: TheConquerer said: I don't see any good men in the Middle East. They're all back in the UN? Or Asia? Where are the "good men"? Did I say that? |
| I've been here way too long... |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: Different prophets is a big deal. Even in Judaism, different prophets expressed vastly different ideas. I presented to you an argument why the Bible's violence is unlike the Quran's. You presented nothing but just said I'm cherry-picking. The base is still the same; a violent religion, that does not deny the use of violence. If you can only present negative evidence for one religion, and only positive for another; yeah, you're cherry picking. Try switching them out sometime. I actually heard that the New Testament is far less violent than the Old. The violence's origin is in Judaism, actually. It is possible for one side to be totally right and one side totally wrong. Middle of the road isn't always guaranteed. At least I'm providing some sort of evidence. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: CondemneDio said: The base is still the same; a violent religion, that does not deny the use of violence. If you can only present negative evidence for one religion, and only positive for another; yeah, you're cherry picking. Try switching them out sometime. I actually heard that the New Testament is far less violent than the Old. The violence's origin is in Judaism, actually. It is possible for one side to be totally right and one side totally wrong. Middle of the road isn't always guaranteed. At least I'm providing some sort of evidence. Why is the OT included in the bible then? If christianity really wanted to make clear they are different from the other two, they should exclude OT. |
| I wonder why all groups of scumbags use wordplay to justify or outright deny their actions "oh no, we're totally not bombing and killing innocent people, we're not against other peoples freedom and we're not warmongers because the definition of Islam is peace." ohhhh now everything makes sense, I'm sorry for ever suspecting you. GTFO with that shit. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| I wonder why all groups of scumbags use wordplay to justify or outright deny their actions "oh no, we're totally not bombing and killing innocent people, we're not against other peoples freedom and we're not warmongers because the definition of Islam is peace." ohhhh now everything makes sense, I'm sorry for ever suspecting you. GTFO with that shit. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| I wonder why all groups of scumbags use wordplay to justify or outright deny their actions "oh no, we're totally not bombing and killing innocent people, we're not against other peoples freedom and we're not warmongers because the definition of Islam is peace." ohhhh now everything makes sense, I'm sorry for ever suspecting you. GTFO with that shit. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| I wonder why all groups of scumbags use wordplay to justify or outright deny their actions "oh no, we're totally not bombing and killing innocent people, we're not against other peoples freedom and we're not warmongers because the definition of Islam is peace." ohhhh now everything makes sense, I'm sorry for ever suspecting you. GTFO with that shit. |
| SCARY MONSTER |
| Nice quadrapost there :D |
CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: I actually heard that the New Testament is far less violent than the Old. The violence's origin is in Judaism, actually. It is possible for one side to be totally right and one side totally wrong. Middle of the road isn't always guaranteed. At least I'm providing some sort of evidence. Why is the OT included in the bible then? If christianity really wanted to make clear they are different from the other two, they should exclude OT. I'm not well-versed enough in Christianity to tell you that. I still don't see any evidence that starts comparing the violence between the Bible and the Quran. I only have the links I provided. You're not making a convincing case here. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: I'm not well-versed enough in Christianity to tell you that. I still don't see any evidence that starts comparing the violence between the Bible and the Quran. I only have the links I provided. You're not making a convincing case here. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html I'm gonna post links too, then. You're welcome. |
| What I want to know is who is expected to fix the worlds problems? this refugee crisis and ISIS isn't going away by itself. So who are we expecting to clean this mess up exactly? someones got to do it and it doesn't look like the countries or people from those countries are going to do it because they all heard theres free stuff in Europe so instead of staying and fighting for the dirt they have why not just come and be European citizens. I mean who would stay and fight for less than what you can get for running away? So seriously who is supposed to fix the problem? because so far except for random strikes we seem to think its just going to stop by itself and keep waiting. |
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CondemneDio said: TheBrainintheJar said: I'm not well-versed enough in Christianity to tell you that. I still don't see any evidence that starts comparing the violence between the Bible and the Quran. I only have the links I provided. You're not making a convincing case here. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html I'm gonna post links too, then. You're welcome. In both instances the skeptics seem to have gone all out in their attempt to claim things as violent, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they've been roughly equal with their search of each text. Considering that the Quran is shorter than the NT, we still see a huge disparity. 163 instances of 'cruelty and violence' in the NT, hilariously including every instance where blood is mentioned (even when it's used as a metaphor for forgiveness). As for the Quran, which may I remind you is shorter than the NT: 532 And the Quran is shorter than the New Testament. Take 'instances of violence and cruelty' per 1000 verses: 163/7.958 = 20.48 for the New Testament 1321/31.103 = 42.47 for the entire Bible 532/6.236 = 85.31 for the Quran There's your comparison. It's not even close. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Caelidesu said: CondemneDio said: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html I'm gonna post links too, then. You're welcome. In both instances the skeptics seem to have gone all out in their attempt to claim things as violent, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they've been roughly equal with their search of each text. Considering that the Quran is shorter than the NT, we still see a huge disparity. 163 instances of 'cruelty and violence' in the NT, hilariously including every instance where blood is mentioned (even when it's used as a metaphor for forgiveness). As for the Quran, which may I remind you is shorter than the NT: 532 And the Quran is shorter than the New Testament. Take 'instances of violence and cruelty' per 1000 verses: 163/7.958 = 20.48 for the New Testament 1321/31.103 = 42.47 for the entire Bible 532/6.236 = 85.31 for the Quran There's your comparison. It's not even close. Nice calculations and all, but they really mean nothing. This is not a competition on who has the least or most violent holy text. These are just examples of how violence is condoned and glorified in these two religions. |
TheBrainintheJar said: The stuff about Buddhists are unrelated to their ideology though.EDIT: The irony of 'Buddhism is a religion of peace'. I know little about it, but Buddhists have been clashing with Muslims too (The 369 Movement, or something like that). |
| If it is then a good amount of it's followers are anything, but peaceful. |
CondemneDio said: Caelidesu said: In both instances the skeptics seem to have gone all out in their attempt to claim things as violent, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they've been roughly equal with their search of each text. Considering that the Quran is shorter than the NT, we still see a huge disparity. 163 instances of 'cruelty and violence' in the NT, hilariously including every instance where blood is mentioned (even when it's used as a metaphor for forgiveness). As for the Quran, which may I remind you is shorter than the NT: 532 And the Quran is shorter than the New Testament. Take 'instances of violence and cruelty' per 1000 verses: 163/7.958 = 20.48 for the New Testament 1321/31.103 = 42.47 for the entire Bible 532/6.236 = 85.31 for the Quran There's your comparison. It's not even close. Nice calculations and all, but they really mean nothing. This is not a competition on who has the least or most violent holy text. These are just examples of how violence is condoned and glorified in these two religions. I thought evidence presented clearly and logically with numbers would be you're thing, but now you've decided on what you believe, you show yourself to be in denial when that set of beliefs are contradicted. You were the one that initially brought up the Bible as a point of comparison, and now that you have the evidence showing how terrible it makes the Quran look in comparison, you've decided that 'This is not a competition on who has the least or most violent holy text.' Violence is so blatantly and obviously not condoned or glorified in Christian doctrine and culture in the world today, and that's because it is treated as a sad necessity for survival of nations in the Bible as it has been throughout all of history. Not letting savages invade your land involves use of intimidation and/or violence. The Word of God doesn't spread because of violent reactionaries, you know. The Word of God spreads because of people that perform great acts of charity and self-sacrifice while preaching the gospel. A central theme of the Bible's message is the freedom of people to choose to believe. A central theme of the Quran's message involves forcing others to submit to Allah through use of violence. That's what has caused the evolution of two vastly different cultures. One, where being able to endure suffering is considered a manly attribute; another, where being able to inflict suffering is considered a manly attribute. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
It sure was a sad necessity to conduct the Crusades, am I right? ;) You too, have rejected evidence of christianitys bad points, you just close your eyes when it's convenient for you. |
CondemneDio said: It sure was a sad necessity to conduct the Crusades, am I right? ;) You too, have rejected evidence of christianitys bad points, you just close your eyes when it's convenient for you. I've never denied that the Crusades happened. I've gone so far as to say that it was probably the right thing to do at the time. As a person you can let someone else walk all over you, but as a nation you're hurting other people by letting other nations walk all over you. Think about that difference. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Caelidesu said: CondemneDio said: It sure was a sad necessity to conduct the Crusades, am I right? ;) You too, have rejected evidence of christianitys bad points, you just close your eyes when it's convenient for you. I've never denied that the Crusades happened. I've gone so far as to say that it was probably the right thing to do at the time. As a person you can let someone else walk all over you, but as a nation you're hurting other people by letting other nations walk all over you. Think about that difference. Do you close your eyes from the other negative/contradicting points of christianity? |
CondemneDio said: Caelidesu said: I've never denied that the Crusades happened. I've gone so far as to say that it was probably the right thing to do at the time. As a person you can let someone else walk all over you, but as a part of a nation you're hurting other people by letting other nations walk all over you. Think about that difference. Do you close your eyes from the other negative/contradicting points of christianity? I don't. I study them and attempt to work out why things are the way they are. I still haven't found a contradiction that can't be made sense of. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Caelidesu said: I don't. I study them and attempt to work out why things are the way they are. I still haven't found a contradiction that can't be made sense of. Then that's the biggest difference between us. I don't use god as an explanation for things I don't know about or understand. |
CondemneDio said: Caelidesu said: I don't. I study them and attempt to work out why things are the way they are. I still haven't found a contradiction that can't be made sense of. Then that's the biggest difference between us. I don't use god as an explanation for things I don't know about or understand. I don't use God in that way. A belief is not an explanation. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Caelidesu said: CondemneDio said: Then that's the biggest difference between us. I don't use god as an explanation for things I don't know about or understand. I don't use God in that way. A belief is not an explanation. You'd have to, to make any sense of the bible. Most christians use their beliefs as an explanation; "I don't know, therefore god". You're going to have to prove me you can use pure logic to justify bible. |
CondemneDio said: Most christians use their beliefs as an explanation; "I don't know, therefore god". You're going to have to prove me you can use pure logic to justify bible. That's fair enough, and I can try to do that for you, but that'll be going a little off-topic for this thread so it would be better suited to a different thread. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Caelidesu said: CondemneDio said: Most christians use their beliefs as an explanation; "I don't know, therefore god". You're going to have to prove me you can use pure logic to justify bible. That's fair enough, and I can try to do that for you, but that'll be going a little off-topic for this thread so it would be better suited to a different thread. Agreed :D |
Caelidesu said: I thought evidence presented clearly and logically with numbers would be you're thing, but now you've decided on what you believe, you show yourself to be in denial when that set of beliefs are contradicted. You were the one that initially brought up the Bible as a point of comparison, and now that you have the evidence showing how terrible it makes the Quran look in comparison, you've decided that 'This is not a competition on who has the least or most violent holy text.' Violence is so blatantly and obviously not condoned or glorified in Christian doctrine and culture in the world today, and that's because it is treated as a sad necessity for survival of nations in the Bible as it has been throughout all of history. Not letting savages invade your land involves use of intimidation and/or violence. The Word of God doesn't spread because of violent reactionaries, you know. The Word of God spreads because of people that perform great acts of charity and self-sacrifice while preaching the gospel. A central theme of the Bible's message is the freedom of people to choose to believe. A central theme of the Quran's message involves forcing others to submit to Allah through use of violence. That's what has caused the evolution of two vastly different cultures. One, where being able to endure suffering is considered a manly attribute; another, where being able to inflict suffering is considered a manly attribute. You assumed too much about poor Dio. His track history does not bear that out to be the case. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Caelidesu said: I thought evidence presented clearly and logically with numbers would be you're thing, but now you've decided on what you believe, you show yourself to be in denial when that set of beliefs are contradicted. You were the one that initially brought up the Bible as a point of comparison, and now that you have the evidence showing how terrible it makes the Quran look in comparison, you've decided that 'This is not a competition on who has the least or most violent holy text.' Violence is so blatantly and obviously not condoned or glorified in Christian doctrine and culture in the world today, and that's because it is treated as a sad necessity for survival of nations in the Bible as it has been throughout all of history. Not letting savages invade your land involves use of intimidation and/or violence. The Word of God doesn't spread because of violent reactionaries, you know. The Word of God spreads because of people that perform great acts of charity and self-sacrifice while preaching the gospel. A central theme of the Bible's message is the freedom of people to choose to believe. A central theme of the Quran's message involves forcing others to submit to Allah through use of violence. That's what has caused the evolution of two vastly different cultures. One, where being able to endure suffering is considered a manly attribute; another, where being able to inflict suffering is considered a manly attribute. You assumed too much about poor Dio. His track history does not bear that out to be the case. At least I'm not into a wrathful, self-contradicting imaginary being ;) |
Rat said: TheConquerer said: Idk but you definitely wrote it.Did I say that? Ah yes had a look, good job taking it out of context |
| I've been here way too long... |
CondemneDio said: Could you atleast show one piece of evidence that it's self contradicting instead of saying that every second line without backing it up?RedRoseFring said: You assumed too much about poor Dio. His track history does not bear that out to be the case. At least I'm not into a wrathful, self-contradicting imaginary being ;) |
 hiSets Last FM Anime List Manga List Clue no. 2: Somewhere in one of the pictures in my forum signature. |
| Terrorism has nothing to do with religion, in my opinion. I think it has more to do with people who think they're right and can only accept that they're right. |
| Just need to find out how to quote this every time so I can dodge the stupid 30-character limit. |
kiteen said: Could you atleast show one piece of evidence that it's self contradicting instead of saying that every second line without backing it up? God is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent according to christianity. If it is benevolent, why is there suffering? a) It either can not stop it from happening -> it is not omnipotent b) It does not care -> it is not benevolent Then there's the problem of sin. God supposedly created humans. Humans are sinners. God is the reason humans are sinners. God says sinners will not get to enjoy heaven. Is this benevolent? Not at all. Just a few, easy to digest examples. If your definition of god differs from that of christianitys, these might not apply. But yeah, all in all; if god exists, he's either an asshole, a useless tool, or an useless asshole. |
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