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Poll: Kowabon Episode 1 Discussion


#1
Oct 3, 2015 5:14 PM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Another fake rotoscoping. Just face it you'll never see real, competent rotoscoping from anime, because it's all about cost saving and efficiency. But this time they have the perfect excuse for the low frame rate because they are on Skype, far more accurate than that of in the crowd pleaser The Visit. And then it has every horror clichés and tropes you can imagine, just like Kagewani. And what's the point of putting the audience in first person's perspective if the characters don't act realistically or genuinely?
Modified by raveninthemuddle, Oct 4, 2015 12:48 AM
 
#2
Oct 4, 2015 2:10 AM

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Reminded of Unfriended ;l
 
#3
Oct 4, 2015 4:22 AM

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so anyone found the first ep.? ^^
 
 
#4
Oct 4, 2015 4:52 AM

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interesting

idk how theyre gonna make a story out of this though
 
#5
Oct 4, 2015 6:50 AM

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good environment of terror, rotoscope not annoying and interesting plot
3/5

 
#6
Oct 4, 2015 7:40 AM

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raveninthemuddle said:

Another fake rotoscoping. Just face it you'll never see real, competent rotoscoping from anime, because it's all about cost saving and efficiency. But this time they have the perfect excuse for the low frame rate because they are on Skype, far more accurate than that of in the crowd pleaser The Visit. And then it has every horror clichés and tropes you can imagine, just like Kagewani. And what's the point of putting the audience in first person's perspective if the characters don't act realistically or genuinely?


What do you mean with fake rotoscoping?
Definition of rotoscoping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping
Which simply says that if you take live action footage and re-draw it frame by frame. Since they showed the live action footage at the end, they probably worked with it.
And "frame rate" is a completely incorrect term when speaking about anime. EVERY anime is made with 24 frames per seconds, there is no rate where it drops or gets higher, that’s only in videogames. Sure they use the same picture for multiple frames, but that’s a process called "Limited animation" and is used even in Disney movies, where you have probably the best animation when it comes to animated media.
"Every horror clichés you can imagine", the only trope that I can see is the "picking long haired naked woman as creature" which is pretty common in Japanese horror movies and that mainly since Japanese are very scared of this kind of creature, like they are afraid of the "many hands" trope.
And what are you talking about „characters don't act realistically or genuinely", who are you talking about and what would be your suggestion to make?
Modified by Lockensocke, Oct 4, 2015 8:28 AM
 
#7
Oct 4, 2015 8:23 AM

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This was better than I thought. Definitely an interesting watch but much better than Kagewani. Still skip because of the rotoscope and non-anime feel. :/
It's time you look inward and begin asking yourself the big question, "Who are you, and what do you want?" - Uncle Iroh
 
#8
Oct 4, 2015 9:54 AM

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Lockensocke said:
raveninthemuddle said:

Another fake rotoscoping. Just face it you'll never see real, competent rotoscoping from anime, because it's all about cost saving and efficiency. But this time they have the perfect excuse for the low frame rate because they are on Skype, far more accurate than that of in the crowd pleaser The Visit. And then it has every horror clichés and tropes you can imagine, just like Kagewani. And what's the point of putting the audience in first person's perspective if the characters don't act realistically or genuinely?


What do you mean with fake rotoscoping?
Definition of rotoscoping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping
Which simply says that if you take live action footage and re-draw it frame by frame. Since they showed the live action footage at the end, they probably worked with it.
And "frame rate" is a completely incorrect term when speaking about anime. EVERY anime is made with 24 frames per seconds, there is no rate where it drops or gets higher, that’s only in videogames. Sure they use the same picture for multiple frames, but that’s a process called "Limited animation" and is used even in Disney movies, where you have probably the best animation when it comes to animated media.
"Every horror clichés you can imagine", the only trope that I can see is the "picking long haired naked woman as creature" which is pretty common in Japanese horror movies and that mainly since Japanese are very scared of this kind of creature, like they are afraid of the "many hands" trope.
And what are you talking about „characters don't act realistically or genuinely", who are you talking about and what would be your suggestion to make?


The original Snow white (1937), that is rotoscoping; The Animatrix, Kid's story, that's also rotoscoping. Of course they worked with the live action footage, but if all you have to do is just draw lines along the circumference of the objects you want to animate, I'm sorry, you are just simply outlining stuff. Rotoscoping is already invented so that less talented or experienced people can also make animation with ease, this is not a creative process but if you look at other animation that uses the same technique you can see there's also room for some kind of artistic input from the animator (the most noticeable is the boiling effect and in the Kids story it shows how powerful rotoscoping can be). Sure by definition it is "rotoscoping", but did you feel any soul or liveness put into the animation so that it's more than just a gimmick? If you don't take the liberty why would you use this technique?

Of course I'm talking about the rate of key frame per second, what else it can be? What kind of anime fan I am who don't know the different between frame rate of a video and the key frame of animation?

In chronological order:
1. Those artificial sound effects when the "Spike" is connected and screen flickering, my Stype and computer doesn't do that.
2. Premature Jump scare, you gotta have at least one right?
3. And Sachi doesn't even react to that jump scare, realistic huh?
4. The "do" sound clearly comes from Sachi's side but instead of look around herself she asks Fuumin to see if there's someone on her side.
5. Freaking modem dialing up sound effect man! Every horror about the Internet is gonna have those right?
6. The same trope you mentioned earlier, but that's the whole point of this anime so it's excusable.
7. Hey, an evil looking entitle is going to get you, REACT! Turn off the monitor or run away, tension! And no, the acting doesn't convey she is in shock therefore incapacitated to react, it's every generic dialogue and acting you can find in any generic horror movie.

The anime tries to use rotoscoping to bring realism into it, I get that, and with the budget and talent they get it's pretty decent for a short. But they could have take one step beyond ditching some of the tiring clichés and tropes if making an immersive horror anime about someone using Stype with realism is their goal. If it wants to be cheesy fine by me, but if that's the case they wouldn't have used rotoscoping in the first place.
Modified by raveninthemuddle, Oct 4, 2015 10:01 AM
 
 
#9
Oct 4, 2015 1:08 PM

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raveninthemuddle said:


The original Snow white (1937), that is rotoscoping; The Animatrix, Kid's story, that's also rotoscoping. Of course they worked with the live action footage, but if all you have to do is just draw lines along the circumference of the objects you want to animate, I'm sorry, you are just simply outlining stuff. Rotoscoping is already invented so that less talented or experienced people can also make animation with ease, this is not a creative process but if you look at other animation that uses the same technique you can see there's also room for some kind of artistic input from the animator (the most noticeable is the boiling effect and in the Kids story it shows how powerful rotoscoping can be). Sure by definition it is "rotoscoping", but did you feel any soul or liveness put into the animation so that it's more than just a gimmick? If you don't take the liberty why would you use this technique?

Of course I'm talking about the rate of key frame per second, what else it can be? What kind of anime fan I am who don't know the different between frame rate of a video and the key frame of animation?

In chronological order:
1. Those artificial sound effects when the "Spike" is connected and screen flickering, my Stype and computer doesn't do that.
2. Premature Jump scare, you gotta have at least one right?
3. And Sachi doesn't even react to that jump scare, realistic huh?
4. The "do" sound clearly comes from Sachi's side but instead of look around herself she asks Fuumin to see if there's someone on her side.
5. Freaking modem dialing up sound effect man! Every horror about the Internet is gonna have those right?
6. The same trope you mentioned earlier, but that's the whole point of this anime so it's excusable.
7. Hey, an evil looking entitle is going to get you, REACT! Turn off the monitor or run away, tension! And no, the acting doesn't convey she is in shock therefore incapacitated to react, it's every generic dialogue and acting you can find in any generic horror movie.

The anime tries to use rotoscoping to bring realism into it, I get that, and with the budget and talent they get it's pretty decent for a short. But they could have take one step beyond ditching some of the tiring clichés and tropes if making an immersive horror anime about someone using Stype with realism is their goal. If it wants to be cheesy fine by me, but if that's the case they wouldn't have used rotoscoping in the first place.


Well ofc Snowwhite looks better than any rotoscoping made from an anime studio and you dont use rotoscopy the same way the did it back then with a glass panel, especially since in the anime industry its all about cost efficiancy, thats why their cgi looks terrible and why their overall animation and artstyle are so bad. And anime studios that try to compete in terms of quality run out of money (such as Ghibli who put a 30 million dollar budged into "Kaze Tachinu" and 50 million in "Princess Kaguya")
As far as I see it, its only used as a style or like you said, as a gimmick. I personally really like it when anime try to be diverse and not look the same all the time, just as "Aku no hana" did. I like it when I can see more realistic character movment. I really dont want to praise Kowabon here, since its only a 3 minute short horror video, but rather "Aku no Hana" and other such works.(which are not that many, since they all are not becomming very popular)

Seems like I am not that up to date, since I didnt know online horror movies are now already becomming a clichee^^ I thought those are just comming into trend.
I always though that having a jumpscare once in a while is a common thing in horror movies, since it can either add to the atmosphere or shut down atmosphere that was there before the real thing gets started. There is a reason there is a "loud sound which acutally only was the cat" trope. But maybe you could call it a trope.

I as well think that this could have been a nice horror movie with the right amount of lenght and story around it, but then again there is always the problem with getting the budged.
 
Oct 4, 2015 1:18 PM
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That was more comical than scary. Well, hopefully the next ones would be better. ILCA probably should've focused on making Yami Shibai 3 instead.

 
 
Oct 4, 2015 6:20 PM
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mangalicker94 said:
so anyone found the first ep.? ^^


It's on their website http://www.kbc.co.jp/kowabon/story/detail.html?id=2
and there's a raw up on nyaa torrents
Modified by Horrid, Oct 4, 2015 6:39 PM
 
Oct 4, 2015 6:44 PM

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Orionite_ said:
Reminded of Unfriended ;l

Same, really short episode...
 
Oct 5, 2015 8:59 AM

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ugh too bad it's way too short

it's kinda interesting tho, i hope it gets better
 
Oct 5, 2015 9:36 AM

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I liked it. Also liked Kagewani, so I'm okay here.
It reminds me a lot Yamishibai, sadly there aren't many works that are focused on the horror like these three I said before.

Since it seems no one is going to sub this, I guess I'll keep watching even if it's just to test my japanese knowledge. First episode was fairly simple and fun to watch, that's all I ask for a three minutes anime.
 
Oct 5, 2015 11:27 AM

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kind of weird. Way too short.
Is it going to be a full series or just 13 mini stories?

Not really impressed with the first episode but i hope it gets better.
 
Oct 5, 2015 2:40 PM

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SerB3128 said:
kind of weird. Way too short.
Is it going to be a full series or just 13 mini stories?


Just 13 mini stories.
Modified by Shocked, Sep 7, 2016 1:37 AM
 
Oct 5, 2015 7:44 PM

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That was weird...
I wonder if every episode will end like a cliffhanger?

Somehow, I find that song at the end to be catchy.
 
Oct 5, 2015 8:12 PM

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Creeped me out but damn it hurts my eyes and i thought i got used to rotoscope after watching Aku no Hana! Felt like watching video with 3 frames per second.

Still i liked it and i regret pausing the video and going to that one frame ...
 
 
Oct 5, 2015 8:19 PM
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For a 3 minute, it was nice.
 
Oct 5, 2015 8:32 PM

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3 Minutes of "Video Call" Horror... Interesting.
 
 
Oct 5, 2015 8:53 PM

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i like the bouncing things in the ending....
wow gay
 
Oct 5, 2015 9:52 PM

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Well, I'm not really feeling the rotoscope. Three minutes is way too short and it is such cliche horror. I'll give it one more episode but my hopes aren't high.
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Oct 5, 2015 9:53 PM

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It wasn't that bad, but it was interesting too.

It wasn't that scary!
 
Oct 5, 2015 10:38 PM

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Pretty happy go lucky ED there.
 
Oct 5, 2015 10:56 PM

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ugh.. hate rotoscoping so much.. it just looks awful.. oh well will give another ep a try..
 
Oct 5, 2015 11:02 PM

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It was interesting. I liked at the end how they showed the actors ^.^

 
Oct 5, 2015 11:04 PM

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mangalicker94 said:
so anyone found the first ep.? ^^


http://kissanime.com/Anime/Kowabon/Episode-001?id=117736

 
Oct 5, 2015 11:07 PM

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i fucking hate skype calls
they scare me

that was pretty good, especially since they managed to scare me without a jump scare

Orionite_ said:
Reminded of Unfriended ;l
same

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Oct 5, 2015 11:20 PM
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And then it has every horror clichés and tropes you can imagine, just like Kagewani. And what's the point of putting the audience in first person's perspective if the characters don't act realistically or genuinely?
I don't see how they were not acting realistically. Sure it's been done before but what would you do if you saw some strange person in a friend's house over Skype? Something totally different, right? I don't think this is a case where you can say it's unrealistic, even if it's cliche.

The main girl we see reminded me of Saeki-san. The show's a bit short but could be okay. I hope the next episode is more fluid in its animation.
 
Oct 5, 2015 11:56 PM
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Fuck, that was scary. I'm so easily scared by ghost stories too. Reminds me of when I watched Ringu, still traumatized after 5 years. I was just skype chatting with friends too, but the video call kept dropping so we stopped it. I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon now...Anyways, so the ghost was not really in Saki's house? o_o
 
 
Oct 5, 2015 11:56 PM

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tingy said:
Anyways, so the ghost was not really in Saki's house? o_o

i think it was in the computer

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Oct 6, 2015 12:08 AM

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The concept is interesting but I'm not sold on the execution just yet. Will see how it goes.
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Oct 6, 2015 12:25 AM
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mayukachan said:
tingy said:
Anyways, so the ghost was not really in Saki's house? o_o

i think it was in the computer

Oh that makes sense then, since Saki came back and she sounded perfectly fine, but there was no answer from the other girl.
 
Oct 6, 2015 12:51 AM

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That was terrible. It was like a crappy attempt at a jump scare. With 3 minutes per episode I guess that's how it's gonna be every time.
 
Oct 6, 2015 1:03 AM

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Very good! Gotta love Japanese ghost stuff. Not as good as Kagewani but I'll still watch the full series. I like the rotoscoping, I haven't seen that in an anime before. Catchy outro too :D

 
 
Oct 6, 2015 1:14 AM

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I am really dissapointed that it's only 3 minutes since it's the only horror anime of the season. But then again it was entertaining so I will give it a pass. Can't wait to see what will happen next.

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Oct 6, 2015 1:18 AM

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For what it was worth, I kind of liked it. It's no Yami Shibai, but already better than Yami Shibai S2 at least.
 
Oct 6, 2015 1:46 AM

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Mhh that was weird.. and somewhat interesting, let's see how this turns out.
 
Oct 6, 2015 1:49 AM

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ooh, i liked that, nice and creepy :D
:3
 
Oct 6, 2015 1:57 AM

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Steven15ify said:
I am really dissapointed that it's only 3 minutes since it's the only horror anime of the season. But then again it was entertaining so I will give it a pass. Can't wait to see what will happen next.

Actually there's also Kagewani which is another horror short.
 
Oct 6, 2015 3:18 AM

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Not bad
 
Oct 6, 2015 6:25 AM

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Unfriended the anime :()
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Oct 6, 2015 6:31 AM

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3-episodes rule
 
 
Oct 6, 2015 7:04 AM
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raveninthemuddle said:
Another fake rotoscoping. Just face it you'll never see real, competent rotoscoping from anime, because it's all about cost saving and efficiency.

Who even wants to see rotoscoping in anime? There's nothing interesting about it.

If TV anime was all about "cost saving and efficiency," it would look more like low grade American TV animation and less like the best hand-drawn TV animation in the world.

Lockensocke said:
Sure they use the same picture for multiple frames, but that’s a process called "Limited animation" and is used even in Disney movies, where you have probably the best animation when it comes to animated media.

Disney is actually very overrated.

raveninthemuddle said:
The original Snow white (1937), that is rotoscoping; The Animatrix, Kid's story, that's also rotoscoping.

Ohira's cut in Kid's Story wasn't rotoscoped, at least. I doubt the rest was either. I couldn't find any source proving anything was rotoscoped, just a lot of people saying it was.
 
Oct 6, 2015 7:39 AM

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Just 3 min :| I dunno what to say about this ep, was way too short... :<
 
Oct 6, 2015 7:53 AM

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Got a bit of a jump, but it felt cheap.

IDK hoping this gets better I'd like to see more. I suppose with the horror anime this season i was hoping for at least 1 full length horror.

The monster trope they used reminds me of that korean web page horror story.
 
Oct 6, 2015 8:09 AM
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So it was interesting. But had to rewatch several parts and still couldn't understand where she saw the first ghost.

Also seems intriguing that the guy was wearing a mask.

It seems that horror anime can only be accepted in Japan if it is short (like Pupa, Yami Shibai, Kagewani).
 
Oct 6, 2015 8:27 AM

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Better than expected. A bit creepy. Looking forward to this~
Had to watch it in the morning since I'm a coward for horror stuff lol

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Oct 6, 2015 8:43 AM

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lmfao that bit at the end of how they made it just kills all the vibe XD along with that happy music XD
 
 
Oct 6, 2015 9:16 AM

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2weeaboo4u said:

Disney is actually very overrated.


You can say what you want, in animation quality it beats every japanese studio.

2weeaboo4u said:

Ohira's cut in Kid's Story wasn't rotoscoped, at least. I doubt the rest was either. I couldn't find any source proving anything was rotoscoped, just a lot of people saying it was.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White_and_the_Seven_Dwarfs_%281937_film%29
Under animation, 4th paragraph it says: quote "None of Babbit's animation of the Queen was rotoscoped despite Graham and Natwick's objections, however, some scenes of Snow White and the Prince were directly traced from the live-action footage"
so it was partially rotoscoped(for example the famous scene where she is at the fountain). I wont make a statement on the other movies, since I havent seen them.
 
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