Gatchaman Crowds Insight Episode 11 Discussion

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Oct 2014

the ending didn't make any sense. hopefully the final episode will explain how hajime got hurt.

Sep 19, 2015 12:34 PM

Sephil

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Nov 2014

116

I think is hajime disguised like Gel.

Sep 19, 2015 12:37 PM

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Oct 2014

no i got a theory that i think is canon. hajime took out katse who was hajime's soul, and then katse kissed gelsadra and took his apperance and ablitties. and the gatchaman killed katse disgusted as gelsadra, which in return killed hajime.

if that theory is true, then holy shit man, this show is amazing. but even then, that reveal of hajime in danger was a bit of an asspull in how they revealed it.

Sep 19, 2015 12:54 PM

Epicenter

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Nov 2012

863

Quite baffled at what's going to happen next. Not sure mr Ape will give up or not, and if Hajime will be okay. Also I don't think this would be something that'd permanently change the human race when it comes to atmosphere.

Jaywalker.

Sep 19, 2015 1:16 PM

geocities

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Nov 2013

110

Only one episode left ;;

Joe was rlly cool!!

It's kinda obvious that "Gel" in that battle was Hajime, but I hope they will clarify it in the next ep.

Sep 19, 2015 1:33 PM

trannon1

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Apr 2011

195

NintensityCrowds said:
no i got a theory that i think is canon. hajime took out katse who was hajime's soul, and then katse kissed gelsadra and took his apperance and ablitties. and the gatchaman killed katse disgusted as gelsadra, which in return killed hajime.

if that theory is true, then holy shit man, this show is amazing. but even then, that reveal of hajime in danger was a bit of an asspull in how they revealed it.

Dude, this show has always been amazing.

Sep 19, 2015 1:52 PM

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Oct 2014

trannon1 said:

Dude, this show has always been amazing.

of fucking course it is...Greatest of All Time

Sep 19, 2015 2:09 PM

#10

juubabs

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Jul 2015

207

What?I did not understand why Hajime be bruised, looking forward to the next and last episode

Sep 19, 2015 2:12 PM

#11

vegetablespirit

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Mar 2014

2421

What a ridiculous plot twist. I swear, this show gets stupider with every episode.

Glad there's only one episode left.

Sep 19, 2015 2:14 PM

#12

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Nov 2009

1402

Oh, finally Joe's badassery gets showcased. The best moments of the show to me.

And I now know what this show's main problem is - too big a cast. We got all of the first season cast, the good and the bad and the hesitating, plus a whole load of new characters (not just Tsubasa and Gel, but also people like that Millione guy or Tsubasa's grandpa), but it's still only 12 episodes. Simply not enough time for such a big cast. The result is, only a few chosen characters get the spotlight and any development at all, while the rest, even the more important characters, are just background. See for yourself: Sugane had little more than cameos for the bigger part of the show, Utsutsu is almost non-existent, Rizumu is mostly standing/sitting around... even OD and Joy are more background than anything, because No.Time. to develop any of them, they barely have enough time for Tsubasa, Gel, Rui and Hajime, and the rest are, well...

So, unlike the 1st season, still can't give this show more than 6, even though I would want to, and it's sad...

ったく、嫌な世の中だよ。

Sep 19, 2015 3:42 PM

#13

phantom19

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Jan 2013

805

This was an uncharacteristically strong episode. My previous criticism of taking too long to set up the stage might be unfounded now since the weight of the situation fully comes through. The show's continued portrayal of society's hivemind comes through as strong as the first season.

The sequence with the Gatchaman fighting "Gelsadra" without any words being exchanged was wonderfully done. It shows how one-sided the fight truly was and the focus shifts more to everyone who was watching the broadcast.

-Nothing can stay unchanged. Even so, can you still keep on loving this place?

-Be still my soul; when change and tears are past, all safe and blessed we shall meet at last.

Sep 19, 2015 4:19 PM

#14

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

Hajime's play is interesting, she gave the crowds what they wanted: blood. But at the same time she is forcing the crowds to realize that when they demand blood it may not come from whom they wanted it to come from. I also liked how she had the everyone be so merciless that even the idiots baying in the stands (which is around 85% of the human population) started to question their desire to Gel's head.

I like the above idea about Katze, the only argument against it is that I can't see Katze deciding to help them to pull that off. Will be interesting to see what happens. Was it Hajime in the suit? That the other members gave the salute at the end could be a clue towards that, as well as the line that Hajime was in the middle. So in short Hajime, sacrificed herself to satisify everyone's bloodlust.

If so the question is what Katze will do. In that he is in Hajime's body, if she dies, he will most likely also die, so he may be the one forced to save her in the end. She may have factored that in. I am sure the show will be something awesome, they won't disappoint us at the end.

Excellent show, for those who complained it was slow, I never really thought that, everything built nicely episode after episode, leading to these final scenes. I also like that this show actually deals with real issues, that is rare in entertainment which generally panders to the masses (while individuals can be evil, the collective is usually shown as being good except if motivated by something like religion or nationalism that the writers already hate. This is the rare show that shows human nature in a bad light. Good for it.

For those who think the plot was "ridiculous". Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean that it is far fetched or lacking. The plot has been extremely consistent for two cours now, it just has gone over your head.

Sep 19, 2015 4:25 PM

#15

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1893

My reaction to the "fight":

Sep 19, 2015 5:15 PM

#16

m-i-c-h-a-e-l

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Jun 2014

1665

this episode really showed how the media has the power to sway opinion. I had never really considered the purpose of the Millione Show in perspective of the theme.

~my list

Sep 19, 2015 5:19 PM

#17

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1893

For more damage to the feels, please notice that "Sadra" was rolling in pain the same way Hajime was doing in season 1, episode 12. Also, if you pay close attention, Utsutsu tied her hair ribbon in Hajime's hair before healing her.

Sep 19, 2015 6:23 PM

#18

mwsmws22

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Dec 2013

you could say they really... KILLED THE ATMOSPHERE.

Takuan_Soho said:
For those who think the plot was "ridiculous". Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean that it is far fetched or lacking. The plot has been extremely consistent for two cours now, it just has gone over your head.

this

mwsmws22Sep 19, 2015 6:26 PM

Sep 19, 2015 6:31 PM

#19

deg

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Jan 2009

92389

yep they killed the atmosphere by actually killing Hajime and not Gelsadra lol

but we all know Hajime will be alive in the end

1 last episode, i hope they explain how Hajime get the powers and looks of Gelsadra

Sep 19, 2015 6:36 PM

#20

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1893

j0x said:
Ii hope they explain how Hajime get the powers and looks of Gelsadra

I'll explain that for you: Berg Katze's note.

Sep 19, 2015 6:38 PM

#21

dbaranyi

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Nov 2008

4588

The writers really ODed on the Stupid Pills before writing this episode.

Sep 19, 2015 6:42 PM

#22

trannon1

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Apr 2011

195

vodall said:
What a ridiculous plot twist. I swear, this show gets stupider with every episode.

Glad there's only one episode left.

Glad I only need to endure one more week of your idiocy.

Sep 19, 2015 7:04 PM

#23

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Oct 2014

DmonHiro said:

j0x said:
Ii hope they explain how Hajime get the powers and looks of Gelsadra

I'll explain that for you: Berg Katze's note.

this ^

Sep 19, 2015 7:40 PM

#24

Queen_Vania

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Jul 2012

411

trannon1 said:

vodall said:
What a ridiculous plot twist. I swear, this show gets stupider with every episode.

Glad there's only one episode left.

Glad I only need to endure one more week of your idiocy.

Everyone was praising the episode and the anime, and you just outright criticise it by saying it became stupider, you really can't read the ATMOSPHERE.

Stupid references aside, I think this show is really deep. It shows and uses real life theme and it's a representation of real life in society. How people always follow the atmosphere, get along with the flow, right can be wrong, and how the media can manipulate all of it. Just like the film 'Wag the Dog' even though it's more of creating illusion through manipulation, but similar message applies too.

It's even more in Asian countries than in Western countries. People likes to go with the flow and people are easily swayed by the atmosphere there. Like Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand, and moreover in Japan I feel it's even more (I've never been to China and Korea so I wouldn't know).

It implies that the plot isn't just made based on some shallow idea without any further thinking like some anime, or maybe lots of anime. It's a shame that it's rated really low, but considering that most people wants a fun anime that requires no thinking of the theme, what can I do.

よろしく！

Sep 19, 2015 8:58 PM

#25

ReaperCreeper

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Jan 2011

26340

Their plan was pretty obvious.

Sep 19, 2015 9:08 PM

#26

Jonesy974

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Aug 2013

2274

Holy hell this show has some deep writing.

Whoever would've guessed that the aloof, clumsy girl who practically masturbated to notebooks would be so fucking smart and aware, and basically become the batman for the city.

Also don't understand how so many people on here don't realize that Hajime got hurt because she was disguised as Gel-chan.
- Big Gatchaman fight ensues
- Hajime is the only one not there
- Gel doesn't really fight back
- Gel gets wrecked
- Very next scene shows Hajime on the brink of death
- Tsubasa tells the world that Gel is still alive and that Hajime was in the fight

Did that really not piece together in peoples heads?

Sep 19, 2015 10:28 PM

#27

silverwalls

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Nov 2012

15463

i already thought it was hajime disguising herself as gelsadra when i saw she wasn't at the battle as gatchaman. a pretty good plan, though it looks like not all of the kuu's are eliminated yet.
anyways, good episode.

Sep 20, 2015 12:12 AM

#28

YizelTro

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Feb 2015

3751

is it only me or every one thought hajime disguised as gel too? that was the only fact that make sense to me. and it's very sad.
That's why they all were doing a gatcha pose when they were about to kill gel, but the truth, that wasn't gel, it was hajime. that was really cruel. this episode really made me suprised.

But in other side, it was a funny episode too, especially when OD meets his replacement for the tv show. That was really funny.

Hope Hajime will be okay in the next episode.
GATCHA!!!

Sep 20, 2015 12:14 AM

#29

Tulicloure

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Dec 2012

404

I REALLY like that this show doesn't just solves the proposed problems with a big fight against some villain. Instead, both in this season and the first one, the characters had to find a way to change the way society behaved around the situation.

Sep 20, 2015 12:58 AM

#30

YizelTro

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Feb 2015

3751

shadow_black said:

trannon1 said:

Glad I only need to endure one more week of your idiocy.

i'm from indonesia , so i know what it feel "swayed by the atmosphere". i experience it before and when i realize it , i regret it. i feel something like that. it's very hard to explain it with words.

So, what i want to say is , this anime have a really big meaning.

Sep 20, 2015 1:54 AM

#31

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Nov 2009

1402

"Don't get it?" Yeah, right. So you're telling me that allowing anyone, regardless of their background and origins, to run for the highest governmental post and people accepting it just like that is anything realistic, huh? People, or atmosphere aren't nearly as uniform and one-dimentional as the show presents. The whole setup is very, VERY sketchy at best, with many elements excluded or simplified or exaggerated, and a far cry of reality. Basically, the thing is very faulty, and simply put, the show tried to bite more that it could chew because the concept is way too complex for 12 episodes, especially with their way of building things up. So would you please try not to sound so damn high browed, claiming that the dislike others have for the show is solely due to them "not getting" what the creators tried to show?

ったく、嫌な世の中だよ。

Sep 20, 2015 4:09 AM

#32

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Sep 2014

245

And Hajime gets herself in huge suffering for sake of people second season in a row. I swear she's too good for human race.

Sep 20, 2015 4:57 AM

#33

ramenshoujo

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Jun 2014

647

Hajime has a martyr complex - confirmed. lol

Seriously though, it was so obvious after 5 seconds of the fight, I'm surprised they took the time to explain it so blatantly. And here you have people calling it a "twist". I usually don't facepalm but, *facepalm

My old Japan blog which I'm never going to finish: https://ramenshojo.wordpress.com/2016/08/07/day-6-nakano-broadway-harmonica-street-zauo-restaurant/

Sep 20, 2015 5:18 AM

#34

lightichinose

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Sep 2015

using atmosphere, hajime should be the next prime minister... love her for always being herself , but affecting greatly to the society.. ideal character like her should probably be the ideal leader

Sep 20, 2015 6:09 AM

#35

trannon1

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Apr 2011

195

CG said:

Sketchyness aside, we have to acknowledge the potentiality of this sort of issue. Look at how Hitler and Nazi Germany occured. How is it that one man managed to sway the whole of Germany into become genocidal killers? Simply put, he has charisma and he could create an atmosphere. He made people feel as if by following him, they would definitely live a better life. Now, I understand that Gelsadra's speech and dialogue is truly cringeworthy, but I think the example is valid, people will do stupid things because of the atmosphere. They may not just hand over their rights on a silver platter to an alien, but they would do stupid things such as voting to go to war due to an infectious optimism or verbally abusing people on the internet just because everyone else is doing it. High school is basically an example of life right? Then why do people get ostracized in high school? Why is there mass bullying? Even without reasons, why do people gang up on others? The answer is because they want to fit in the atmosphere, they don't want to be rejected by the atmosphere.

It is true that it would take more than 12 episodes to try and define something like this, but how many animes try to tackle issues like this in the first place? I would say that this does a good job despite being limited in such a way. Even without a lot of the concepts, the general idea should be conveyed, the basic idea that we should think for ourselves rather than let others think for us.

trannon1Sep 20, 2015 6:21 AM

Sep 20, 2015 7:02 AM

#36

vegetablespirit

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Mar 2014

2421

trannon1 said:
It is true that it would take more than 12 episodes to try and define something like this, but how many animes try to tackle issues like this in the first place?

In my experience, about every third anime? It's not that uncommon. I care about how much a story succeeds rather than what it tackles, which is why this doesn't appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.

Sep 20, 2015 7:18 AM

#37

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Sep 2014

245

Funny, cuz I have the same approach as you but that's exactly why this show DOES appeal to me :P

Sep 20, 2015 8:17 AM

#38

Barion-Zara

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Aug 2010

10990

I don't really get how Hajime was in Gel's shape but damn that was quite the brutal beat down.

Anyway looking forward to see how it's explained nxt week. And Hajime just keeps proving she's the best character in this series with no competition <3

Sep 20, 2015 9:06 AM

#39

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

CG said:
"Don't get it?" Yeah, right. So you're telling me that allowing anyone, regardless of their background and origins, to run for the highest governmental post and people accepting it just like that is anything realistic, huh?

First it is called "fiction" for a reason. It takes well established trends and extends them to their logical conclusions. Social media as pure democracy, herd mentality as social shaming, political correction as non-judgement.

Second, 25 years ago the idea of a minority could ever be elected President was equally unrealistic.

CG said:
People, or atmosphere aren't nearly as uniform and one-dimentional as the show presents.

Outside of the fact that the GC showed people who were not herd creatures and that yes people are one-dimensional (the number of "one issue" voters is quite large, they are just split right now), this show doesn't say that the people are "one dimensional", it says that most people "go with the flow" in social situations, and that is undoubtedly true.

CG said:
The whole setup is very, VERY sketchy at best, with many elements excluded or simplified or exaggerated, and a far cry of reality.

Again, look up the definition of "fiction", while you are at it "metaphor", and "social satire". You will have a very poor and shallow life if realism is your "one dimensional" demand of fiction.

CG said:
Basically, the thing is very faulty, and simply

Your argument is a tautology: the show is faulty because it's not realistic, because it isn't realistic its faulty.

CG said:
put, the show tried to bite more that it could chew because the concept is way too complex for 12 episodes, especially with their way of building things up.

Which is your opinion, and which you have not argued merely asserted. Personally I don't think the concept was complex to say the least, this show just hasn't been what you wanted it to be (focused on the characters you like). That is something different.

CG said:
so would you please try not to sound so damn high browed, claiming that the dislike others have for the show is solely due to them "not getting" what the creators tried to show?

It wasn't so much "high browed" than just pointing out that there is nothing ridiculous about this show, or if one want's to insist, there is no rule against fiction being ridiculous (Aristophanes, Swift, Rabelais, Cervantes, Wells, Twain all used ridiculous in their fiction). This show is not hard to understand, it is not complex, people who think otherwise are merely inexperienced.

Sep 20, 2015 11:57 AM

#40

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Sep 2015

I have a theory about hajime disguising herself as gelsadra.
Maybe she has not really disguise herself as gelsadra, but has fought as a gatchaman instead: Rui, using X, has manipulated the surveillance cameras' videos streaming on the internet.
What we have seen in this episode is not the real battle but the video showed on Millione Shop.

Sep 20, 2015 12:11 PM

#41

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Sep 2014

245

If that was not a real battle, why would Hajime be so badly hurt to need Utsutsu supported by others to heal her?

Also what difference does it make if she changed form or Rui manipulated cameras? The point is Hajime got hard beating while pretending to be Gel.

Sep 20, 2015 12:28 PM

#42

PatchworkEden

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Jun 2014

A lot of you guys forgot that Hajime's note is now fused with Berg Katze note (it even takes on a new appearance), with that being said it's very likely she probably has the exact same powers as Katze.

Love ~

Sep 20, 2015 12:29 PM

#43

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Sep 2015

It was a real battle; the point of my theory is to explain how Hajime "disguised" helself as Gel.
It is more simple to manipulate the cameras' videos than transform Hajime in Gel using some sort of power or ability.
Kill the real Gel was not an option, but necessary for change the" atmosphere", so the gatchamans put on that battle and Hajime took the worse part in it.

Sep 20, 2015 2:30 PM

#44

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Sep 2014

245

It's hardly easier. How exactly do you manipulate cameras using electricity so they gain a photoshop function? It's much easier to actually take form of Gel, not to mention it's obviously the right theory as she fused with Katze, probably giving her his powers.

apokaliz500Sep 20, 2015 2:33 PM

Sep 20, 2015 3:49 PM

#45

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Sep 2015

No, it is more simple and easier than you think.
You only need to modified the cameras' videos, stored on the servers, before streaming in on the net, by hacking the system the control the cameras. X, an AI, can do it very quickly and easily, in real time.
No need for strange powers or complex theories.

Sep 20, 2015 4:01 PM

#46

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Sep 2014

245

Your theory is the only complex one here, tho. Katze has power to change forms. Hajime absorbed him. Her gaining his powers this way is the simplest logical conclusion.

Sep 20, 2015 4:02 PM

#47

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Oct 2014

Aquviel, your theory still makes no sense since this technology isn't as simple as you think, especially for a live televised broadcast that isn't a concert or award show. plus simple replacement of footage is too complicated, especially with gel's powers. hajime, nor katze have wind based powers in their gatchaman forms, so it has to be the ability to use gel's form(which i bet isn't like a gatchaman form, but more of a unispecies form), not only that, that type of tracking can't be done in real time without the use of a video editor, which i doubt x can use through hacking just the cameras. it's weird you say that there's no need for strange powers or complex theories when in reality, this is a complex theory that makes little to no sense and we already have a logical answer to what happened if you actually watch the first season. fuck....

Sep 20, 2015 4:39 PM

#48