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Poll: Overlord Episode 6 Discussion


Aug 12, 2015 10:37 AM

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Orsonius said:

snip.


Rates are merely numbers. Just because someone doesen't give any show a rating bellow 5 doesen't mean he doesen't find anything bad, just that his rate for 'bad' differs from yours. Obsessing over mean score is a pretty petty thing to do.

Anyway, your arguments are bad. If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion you got to stop that "hur dur, otaku pandering, wish-fulfillment, MC too OP" crap. Those are not arguments nor valid reasons to criticize anything.
 
Aug 12, 2015 11:15 AM

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Dextix said:
Look orso, i am not in a mood for strawmen. That was not what i was saying at all. At least for me, these episode discussions should be discussions about episode and its hqappensings, not how good/bad it was.

Anime Critique is really complicated, beccause its always subjective. At least for me, these forums are used wrong. We shouldnt be judging anime here, we should be talking about what happened in there, craft theories, have banter.

And about "learning". look. People have been trying to "Teach" me that half of the anime in my list is shit and doesnt deserve to be watched. Critique is so subjectictive, that it cant "teach" anything im afraid, it always comes down to our individual preferences.

The D&D part was for the other person.

And the last part. I suggest you stop trying to fight people over scoring and things like that. These are just ad hominem attacks. Just because someone scores anime highly doesnt mean he hass no critical thought, and just because someone scores anime low doesnt mean he is critical.

I for one refuse to judge anime based on these scores. Because you just cannot give a score to such a subjective thing and then rub it in someone elses face.

Again, im not saying that critique or praise should be forbidden, but this, isnt the place, and it shouldnt be.


Nah, I wasn't trying to strawman you, I was proposing an idea which I simply assumed because you weren't really explicit.

I think anime critique is not subjective. Because people simply don't really know what objective means. Objective means simply relating to facts.

What you mean is universal. Anime tastes and evaluations aren't UNIVERSAL but they can still be objective if you talk about elements of the anime and not just your subjective state of experience while watching the show.

>At least for me, these forums are used wrong. We shouldnt be judging anime here, we should be talking about what happened in there, craft theories, have banter.

Well I didn't know that we now have to all follow your ideal way to use an anime discussion forum.

To me discussion implies also critique. You may not like that, but hey I can simply use the same arguments people throw at me.

if you don't like what I have to say, why do you read it?

Of course I don't mean this, but you see. You don't even have to engage with me, but apparently you want to.

Also there is discussion going on right? I wouldn't say "thanks" to me, but I certainly had an impact on this thread.

>Again, im not saying that critique or praise should be forbidden, but this, isnt the place, and it shouldnt be.

Then were is the place if not in an anime forum?

@Lacertoss

>Rates are merely numbers.

Then why bother with them?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either ratings are irrelevant then why bother rating anime? Or ratings describe something.

Since the guy/gall I was "attacking" with this uses a scale from 6-10 I had a hard time taking his/her arguments seriously because he seems to no care much about these things.

It's like talking about Soccer with someone who isn't really into it but watches it regardless. Why bother going into a conversation if your level of interest in this topic is much lower than lets say mine.

I apparently care much more about analyzing and criticizing than s/he does so you have to either approach me on my terms or just leave it be. A half assed attempt to discuss the anime with me isn't really worth my time...

>Obsessing over mean score is a pretty petty thing to do.

I think it reveals a mindset and that mindset is important when you engage in these talks.

>Those are not arguments nor valid reasons to criticize anything.

Why aren't they?
Just declaring them as such doesn't make them such.
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
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Aug 12, 2015 11:19 AM

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Decent episode, was pretty fun to see Momon in action again.
In general, in this show there are only two things that I REALLY hate - that's Albedo and that bitch at the end. Fcking yenderes.
 
Aug 12, 2015 11:19 AM

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Orsonius said:
Kuro-chin said:


What's your problem? The anime is great! I've rewatched some episodes about 3 times now. This anime is very enjoyable and just because you can't stand the part where the MC is the strongest or is supposed to be (I don't know because I havn't read the LN except the first chapter), doesn't mean that you should be so negative about it. If you don't like the anime, why do you even watch it? I mean, by episode 6 you should have dropped this anime if you don't like it that much, yet here you are posting such a negative post about it.


Did you google "how to make bad arguments so you never convince anyone" to write this comment?
I know this sounds disrespectful but this is like the most common nonsense I read when criticizing anime.


You need to relax, lol! This is an anime site I'm assuming for your everyday joe who likes to watch anime. I'm not a film-critic, nor do I aspire to be one. Also with my post I didn't want to convince you, I wanted to counter your negative post.


First of all no. The anime isn't great. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Also the fact that you enjoy it doesn't have any weight on anything but you.
Meaning your personal subjective experience does not necessarily follow for anyone else who watches it.


You mean how your subjective experience with the anime is making you bash the anime? I didn't want to use the word 'bash' at first, but now I do. Stop bashing the anime. There is looking at an anime with a critics mind and there is plain bashing.

The same can be said to you: the fact that you didn't enjoy it doesn't have any weight on anything but you. But that's not true either. The anime is getting a lot of positive comments, so my input is carrying weight because it resonates with what many other anime lovers think about overlord as well.


Also I not only don't like the OP-ness of the protagonist, I also dislike the one dimensional characters, the incredibly slow pacing, the tensionless plot, and the constant otaku pandering which reduces any amount of seriousness this anime might have.
Also the regurgotated premise which is just a cheap way to create a setting and a way to put a character into an "adventure" (aka the trapped in a video game premise).


Do you even know who anime caters to? Anime is targeted to mainly people who want to watch a nice anime, get a connection with the mc and enjoy themselves. Or something along those lines I think.

I'm not here to debate, lmao.

The anime's plot is great. The interaction between the characters is nice and well played out. I actually don't mind the pacing at all, it's just annoying to have to wait a week for my shot of this great anime!


And what do you mean "doesn't mean that you should be so negative about it"

Since when am I obligated to be entirely positive. Since when is criticism not allowed? This is an anime discussion forum. All opinions and perspectives should be allowed in. I even point out why I am so negative about it all.


You're bashing the anime. That annoys me, because I think that the anime is great. Sure, you can criticize the anime, but your post was filled with bashing the anime the way I read it.



>If you don't like the anime, why do you even watch it?

This is the most garbage argument ever made in the anime community.
Because
1) I need to watch it in order to know if I like it or not
2) because I want to finish it regardless
3) because I am not obligated to like anything
4) because I like to analyze and criticize something
5) because I want to know how it will develop
6) because I want to talk about it with others
7) because an infinite amounts of reasons why I can watch it without liking it


Dude, I drop animes after a few episodes at most. Why put yourself through an anime that's going to make you post a very large post about everything that you didn't like about the anime when 90% of all people who post in this thread about the anime have positive things to say about it? After 6 episodes you should just drop the anime.

In fact, I believe you enjoy the anime. Unless of course you enjoy feeling unpleasant watching something.

You say "I need to watch it in order to know if I like it or not", but in your post it seems that you are bashing it, havn't you watched enough of the anime after 6 episodes to understand that you don't like it? This argument that you use doesn't make any sense at all, because you have watched the anime, maybe not until the end, but surely enough of it to know that you should drop the anime?



> yet here you are posting such a negative post about it.

Posting negative post about anime is forbidden. I see thanks for telling me.

PS: looking through your anime list
>Mean Score: 9.0
so by your standards all anime you've ever seen are basically almost perfect and no anime is below average.
See this is why I have a hard time taking the anime community seriously. There is no critical thought present.


For me a 10 is perfect, 9 it's very good. 7 it's okay I guess. But even then, I don't take the scores that seriously. It just means I enjoyed the anime very much!

Death note/code geass spoiler:



Overlord is an amazing anime, because:

- The art is amazing
- It's a refreshing plot to me because I havn't yet found an anime where the MC is OP, but the story is still very nicely written,t he whole trapped in an online game is an amazing plot and I wish more like overlord and SAO would be made.
- I just love the way the MC is adored by everyone and respected, that's very cool
- It's easy to put yourself in the MC's shoes

See, I seriously did make some arguments against your post, argggggggg.

Anyways, relax dude.
Modified by Kuro-chin, Aug 12, 2015 11:29 AM
Kuroookoooooo-chin!
 
Aug 12, 2015 11:27 AM

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I thought this series would be another anime based in games but I was totally wrong. When I saw these episode, I felt some nostalgia especially in the part when Momon was talking about is friends and how was such a good was the adventure, colecting materials and constructing Nazarick. I felt the same way back when I was playing Runescape with my friends. This is the way that an anime based in a mmorpg game should be made, imo.
 
Aug 12, 2015 11:33 AM

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fredchickens said:
Sigh if only I can experience that kind of teamwork IRL gaming because all I received here were pure trolling and trashtalking.

Anyway call me weird but, Clementine is hot as fck.
You and me both lol

I enjoyed the Ogre/Goblin battle even though the CGI looked kinda weird at times....The group bonding was cool too

Ainz needs to just fuck Alebdo already and fast because I know I would in a heartbeat
 
Aug 12, 2015 11:59 AM

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Orsonius said:

@Lacertoss

>Rates are merely numbers.

Then why bother with them?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either ratings are irrelevant then why bother rating anime? Or ratings describe something.

Since the guy/gall I was "attacking" with this uses a scale from 6-10 I had a hard time taking his/her arguments seriously because he seems to no care much about these things.

It's like talking about Soccer with someone who isn't really into it but watches it regardless. Why bother going into a conversation if your level of interest in this topic is much lower than lets say mine.

I apparently care much more about analyzing and criticizing than s/he does so you have to either approach me on my terms or just leave it be. A half assed attempt to discuss the anime with me isn't really worth my time...

>Obsessing over mean score is a pretty petty thing to do.

I think it reveals a mindset and that mindset is important when you engage in these talks.

>Those are not arguments nor valid reasons to criticize anything.

Why aren't they?
Just declaring them as such doesn't make them such.


Rates are not irrelevant, they are just variable, since people tend to use different kinds of scale. Also, most of the times people use different factors in order to determine if an anime is good or bad. Some people rate with enjoyement as the main factor, some people don't care about it at all, some people put more emphasis on the artstyle... I once met a guy here who rated everything from 5-10, yet was an extremely knowledgeable guy and extremely objective in this rating.
Point is, judging someone by the ratings he gives is extremely narrow-minded from your part.

Why are those things not arguments?

1- 'Otaku pandering'. Can be a good or a bad point, depends on how it's used. Steins;Gate, Haruhi, Bakuman, Monogatari... All those shows contain lots of Otaku Pandering, yet they are all good shows. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there are lots of bad shows that happen to have large amounts of otaku pandering, it doesen't mean that's the reason why they are bad. Implying that, somehow, a nod to the subculture that surrounds a certain piece makes it imediatly bad is nonsense. Even psychological novels of the XIX century many times nod to the literary subcultures surrounding them.

2- MC too OP.
I already explained why in a previous post:
"Why would a character being OP would make a story bad? What kind of argument is that? The whole fantasy and epic genre was originally inspired by mythology and legends about invincible heroes such as Achilles, Odysseus, Ragnar Lodbrock, Vainamoinen, Arthur, Lancelot, Siegfried, etc.
I actually can imagine you reading the Iliad and cursing at how OP Achilles was, or complaining about an asspull by Odysseus.

Der Ring des Nibelungen? MC too OP, cmon slayed a dragon alone and got the valkyr to fall in love with him? 1/10, droped."

Yet, I will develop this point further: a classical theme on literature is the invincible hero that eventually lose to himself. Achilles demolishes everything on his front until he's defeated by his rage, grief and arrogance; Beowulf loses only to age; Siegfried is defeated by his cirscuntances; Othelo by jealousy; Arthur by treason. Even in modern epic/fantasy works the pattern is there.
Who is to say that Overlord won't follow in the direction of the tragical hero? It signs to that route: Ains already began to doubt his humanity and is surrounded by homicidal maniacs. But even if it doesen't, the OPness of the character means nothing.

3- Wish-fulfillment.
It's pretty much a non-factor, really. You could make this argument for almost any fantasy story in existance, from Star Wars to Batman.
Modified by Lacertoss, Aug 12, 2015 12:15 PM
 
Aug 12, 2015 12:10 PM
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My bad, Orsonius. When you said Skeleton Jesus, I thought you meant how he is a selfless person who'll save everyone. Somehow, Jesus does not equal being stronger than everyone else in my mind.

So yet another "MC too OP, no challenge". Those have been in every threads since episode 3. I answered some, other people too. If you don't want to check other threads, here it is again:

Why he is stronger has been established. Does that make the story boring? Well, that obviously depends on who you ask. One thing, however, that is wrong is comparing the story structure to basic shounen animes. In most Shounen, the point of the story is the power growth of the MC. He starts weak then gets stronger, all the while getting opponents suited to his current strength with often the "big bad" of an arc being the short term goal.

Overlord is nothing like that. If your interest is watching him get challenged in battle to grow stronger, you will be disappointed. Does that mean he will NEVER EVER be challenged in a fight? No. I can assure you he will get a challenge before this season ends. But, even in that fight, the point is not "I must grow stronger to beat my opponent!" I will not spoil it any further.

So what IS the point of Overlord then? Look at the MC's first and foremost motivation: his former comrades. Before the events of the anime, he kept on playing by himself (Herohero, one of the last player who is even still in the guild said he hadn't played in 2 years) to maintain the guild they built together in the faintest hope they would ever come back. Even now, he hopes to find them in this new world.

This episode, the Swords of Darkness were a friendly bunch and reminded him of his friends. Yet, he quickly shut them out. Instead of seeking new relations, he's stuck in the past.

He's surrounded by loyal subordinates, but how many of them understand the first thing about him? What would they think if they knew he was actually a "human" ? They're aware that the Supreme Beings created them and take pride in that fact, but they have no idea that this was merely a game.

As you can see, his motivation and circumstances leave a lot of room for mental growth. As the leader of Nazarick (whom as established earlier, he wants to protect) and as he seeks information in this world, he will be put in many different situations. As he is the cautious sort, he does not simply blow every problem that get in his way so he will have the opportunity to grow.

That's what make Ainz interesting to watch. As for the world itself, there are also many different things happening independently of Nazarick. Not all of them will have an immediate pay-off, but even until then, they help define the world. Here are a few things mentioned so far in the anime: War between the Kingdom and the Empire, dispute between the Nobles and the King faction, Zuranon, black scripture, 6 Gods, 13 heroes, Theocracy fighting against demi-humans and many more. Ainz main goal is collecting information and the audience then learns more about this world.
 
Aug 12, 2015 1:06 PM

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My (small) problem is that Ainz is being too careful with his approach. Yeah, starting from the very bottom will work eventually, but there are much faster ways to establish his goals, especially since he already personally tested the actual strength of the people in this world (which he could cross check to make sure how the people from previous arc are in the power level meter). I think he just want to enjoy the adventure slowly just like the ol' days.

A slow pacing, yes, but it's not something that I can't enjoy.

That black sword team guys reek of death flags very bad, though. I wonder if there's anyone from that group who could make it alive.
 
Aug 12, 2015 1:50 PM

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Lacertoss said:

Rates are not irrelevant, they are just variable, since people tend to use different kinds of scale. Also, most of the times people use different factors in order to determine if an anime is good or bad. Some people rate with enjoyement as the main factor, some people don't care about it at all, some people put more emphasis on the artstyle... I once met a guy here who rated everything from 5-10, yet was an extremely knowledgeable guy and extremely objective in this rating.
Point is, judging someone by the ratings he gives is extremely narrow-minded from your part.

Why are those things not arguments?

1- 'Otaku pandering'. Can be a good or a bad point, depends on how it's used. Steins;Gate, Haruhi, Bakuman, Monogatari... All those shows contain lots of Otaku Pandering, yet they are all good shows. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there are lots of bad shows that happen to have large amounts of otaku pandering, it doesen't mean that's the reason why they are bad. Implying that, somehow, a nod to the subculture that surrounds a certain piece makes it imediatly bad is nonsense. Even psychological novels of the XIX century many times nod to the literary subcultures surrounding them.

2- MC too OP.
I already explained why in a previous post:
"Why would a character being OP would make a story bad? What kind of argument is that? The whole fantasy and epic genre was originally inspired by mythology and legends about invincible heroes such as Achilles, Odysseus, Ragnar Lodbrock, Vainamoinen, Arthur, Lancelot, Siegfried, etc.
I actually can imagine you reading the Iliad and cursing at how OP Achilles was, or complaining about an asspull by Odysseus.

Der Ring des Nibelungen? MC too OP, cmon slayed a dragon alone and got the valkyr to fall in love with him? 1/10, droped."

Yet, I will develop this point further: a classical theme on literature is the invincible hero that eventually lose to himself. Achilles demolishes everything on his front until he's defeated by his rage, grief and arrogance; Beowulf loses only to age; Siegfried is defeated by his cirscuntances; Othelo by jealousy; Arthur by treason. Even in modern epic/fantasy works the pattern is there.
Who is to say that Overlord won't follow in the direction of the tragical hero? It signs to that route: Ains already began to doubt his humanity and is surrounded by homicidal maniacs. But even if it doesen't, the OPness of the character means nothing.

3- Wish-fulfillment.
It's pretty much a non-factor, really. You could make this argument for almost any fantasy story in existance, from Star Wars to Batman.


Hey thanks for this comment.

Obviously I do not judge only based on ratings I had already finished my response to him/her and then went to his/her site and checked the list seeing the over rating of many anime which kinda confirmed what I suspected.

A casual anime fan with a small track record of engagement.
And s/he confirmed this in the last comment.

There is nothing wrong with that but please stay out of discussions then if you have no interest in deeper analysis. I think nothing productive comes out of it.

1) Otaku Pandering.

I enjoy my fair share of comedy ecchi stuff.
A good reason why i like Monogatari and watch harems a lot.
But I don't consider otaku pandering as a positive trait. Otaku is associated with a negative connotation and thus the pandering.
Pandering itself is negative.
While as an otaku you will enjoy this pandering, ultimately it is emotional manipulation, designed to appeal to "your" mindset specifically.
I personally have too much "pride" to let it get away with such a thing.

2) MC OP
You mention all those heros. however those still had flaws and challenges.
Overlord seems to go the route of SAO and Mahouka with a Protagonist who will overcome any challenge even through plot convenience or by design. It takes away thrill.

While true we dont know where the story goes two things are mentionable:
a) this anime is one cour so we only get so much and I only talk about the anime
b) afaik the LN has thus far not a single threat to Ainz disproving your idea

If you have seen some anime and read some LN you know what kind of bullshit wish fulfillment this is.
The writer is simply unhappy with his life and writes a power fantasy similar to that of such works as The Chronicles of Gor which is just absolute garbage.

3) A good story is not one which shows you a pitch perfect dream land where everything goes right and you can insert in a blank slate protagonist.
Even if those stories you brought up are the same as Overlord, that would only make them bad too.
I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe.
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Aug 12, 2015 2:33 PM

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Inugirlz said:
LOL Albedo is bat shit crazy.

.
..
...

how do you have babies with a skeleton though?


Magic!
#CHEXIT
 
Aug 12, 2015 3:12 PM
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You say "Overlord seems to go the route of SAO and Mahouka with a Protagonist who will overcome any challenge even through plot convenience or by design. It takes away thrill."

The One Big Challenge he has faced so far is not a opponent he must defeat. It is being placed in this strange and unexpected situation. What he seeks is not strength, it is knowledge.

He was not challenged by the Theocracy. He didn't have to fight them. He first went on a whim, cautious because he didn't know what to expect. He was ready to get out of there immediately if his first spell didn't work. Then he chose to take advantage of the situation to get information. Getting all the information he could without revealing anything important about himself, THAT was his challenge.

Now he has a quest to gather herbs. Do you believe the point of this is "will he be able to get them?" Of course not, his goal is getting fame (to rank up his adventurer level), getting information while, once again, hiding what he really is.

Neither Ainz or Zuranon are aware of each other yet so I will not spoil what the challenge is.

He is constantly "challenged" by various things like a lack of money (that will not attract attention), not being able to read their language but not wanting to look bad by admitting it and eating in front of people. He doesn't solve any of these or the many others like them by using his strength.

He is a cautious man who knows how to use his head. That does not mean he is perfect. He makes mistakes and will try to deal with them as best as he can. If he fails, Nazarick and him will be revealed to the world. At this point, it is obvious people would assume he is a villain and oppose him. From what he knows of the world so far, he could fight back but there are many unknown, other Yggdrasil players being one of them.

Overlord is not about beating the next bad guy.
 
Aug 12, 2015 3:16 PM

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Don't know what the people here are arguing about, but this episode was average at best. For me it was below average, just doesn't hit the mark for being that enjoyable. Comparing this to Log Horizon which had a similar setting and also a slow-ish pace, that show felt much more enjoyable to me. Hope this picks up...
 
Aug 12, 2015 3:19 PM

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HandsomeMan said:
Don't know what the people here are arguing about, but this episode was average at best. For me it was below average, just doesn't hit the mark for being that enjoyable. Comparing this to Log Horizon which had a similar setting and also a slow-ish pace, that show felt much more enjoyable to me. Hope this picks up...



probably because they actually were in a game theat only slowly started to grow more and more as a new world, overlord though, takes place in a fully functioning another world, that only has reference to a game... while the setting might be similar in that the mc wants to be known and generally be the ruler of the world through information, everything else is clearly different between the 2, so perhaps overlord just isn't your cup o' tea.
 
Aug 12, 2015 3:25 PM

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kataklism said:
HandsomeMan said:
Don't know what the people here are arguing about, but this episode was average at best. For me it was below average, just doesn't hit the mark for being that enjoyable. Comparing this to Log Horizon which had a similar setting and also a slow-ish pace, that show felt much more enjoyable to me. Hope this picks up...



probably because they actually were in a game theat only slowly started to grow more and more as a new world, overlord though, takes place in a fully functioning another world, that only has reference to a game... while the setting might be similar in that the mc wants to be known and generally be the ruler of the world through information, everything else is clearly different between the 2, so perhaps overlord just isn't your cup o' tea.

Nope, because I don't honestly care much for MMO settings and lores and what not. I just really enjoyed the character interactions in LH, I enjoyed its atmosphere and the adventure vibe it was giving. Not feeling it here, but like I said I hope it picks up since this is still only episode 6, and although I haven't enjoyed the past few episodes, the first 2 episodes of overlord were really good for me.
 
Aug 12, 2015 3:57 PM
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HandsomeMan said:
kataklism said:



probably because they actually were in a game theat only slowly started to grow more and more as a new world, overlord though, takes place in a fully functioning another world, that only has reference to a game... while the setting might be similar in that the mc wants to be known and generally be the ruler of the world through information, everything else is clearly different between the 2, so perhaps overlord just isn't your cup o' tea.

Nope, because I don't honestly care much for MMO settings and lores and what not. I just really enjoyed the character interactions in LH, I enjoyed its atmosphere and the adventure vibe it was giving. Not feeling it here, but like I said I hope it picks up since this is still only episode 6, and although I haven't enjoyed the past few episodes, the first 2 episodes of overlord were really good for me.


While there are similarities between the 2, the tone is very different.

LH is full of players and while there are changes to the world, it's still mostly the one they're all very familiar with. While there are mysteries elements, especially in the second season, interaction between guilds and relations with NPCs are the focus.

In Overlord, Ainz is the only known Yggdrasil player so far. He has plenty of people around him, but they treat him as a God so he can't really build a meaningful relation with them. They cannot relate to him and he puts an act in front of them.

Really, Ainz would love nothing better than to be in Shiroe's situation, reunited with his friends in a familiar environment, facing new challenges.
 
Aug 12, 2015 4:15 PM

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Orsonius said:
Lacertoss said:

Rates are not irrelevant, they are just variable, since people tend to use different kinds of scale. Also, most of the times people use different factors in order to determine if an anime is good or bad. Some people rate with enjoyement as the main factor, some people don't care about it at all, some people put more emphasis on the artstyle... I once met a guy here who rated everything from 5-10, yet was an extremely knowledgeable guy and extremely objective in this rating.
Point is, judging someone by the ratings he gives is extremely narrow-minded from your part.

Why are those things not arguments?

1- 'Otaku pandering'. Can be a good or a bad point, depends on how it's used. Steins;Gate, Haruhi, Bakuman, Monogatari... All those shows contain lots of Otaku Pandering, yet they are all good shows. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there are lots of bad shows that happen to have large amounts of otaku pandering, it doesen't mean that's the reason why they are bad. Implying that, somehow, a nod to the subculture that surrounds a certain piece makes it imediatly bad is nonsense. Even psychological novels of the XIX century many times nod to the literary subcultures surrounding them.

2- MC too OP.
I already explained why in a previous post:
"Why would a character being OP would make a story bad? What kind of argument is that? The whole fantasy and epic genre was originally inspired by mythology and legends about invincible heroes such as Achilles, Odysseus, Ragnar Lodbrock, Vainamoinen, Arthur, Lancelot, Siegfried, etc.
I actually can imagine you reading the Iliad and cursing at how OP Achilles was, or complaining about an asspull by Odysseus.

Der Ring des Nibelungen? MC too OP, cmon slayed a dragon alone and got the valkyr to fall in love with him? 1/10, droped."

Yet, I will develop this point further: a classical theme on literature is the invincible hero that eventually lose to himself. Achilles demolishes everything on his front until he's defeated by his rage, grief and arrogance; Beowulf loses only to age; Siegfried is defeated by his cirscuntances; Othelo by jealousy; Arthur by treason. Even in modern epic/fantasy works the pattern is there.
Who is to say that Overlord won't follow in the direction of the tragical hero? It signs to that route: Ains already began to doubt his humanity and is surrounded by homicidal maniacs. But even if it doesen't, the OPness of the character means nothing.

3- Wish-fulfillment.
It's pretty much a non-factor, really. You could make this argument for almost any fantasy story in existance, from Star Wars to Batman.


Hey thanks for this comment.

Obviously I do not judge only based on ratings I had already finished my response to him/her and then went to his/her site and checked the list seeing the over rating of many anime which kinda confirmed what I suspected.

A casual anime fan with a small track record of engagement.
And s/he confirmed this in the last comment.

There is nothing wrong with that but please stay out of discussions then if you have no interest in deeper analysis. I think nothing productive comes out of it.

1) Otaku Pandering.

I enjoy my fair share of comedy ecchi stuff.
A good reason why i like Monogatari and watch harems a lot.
But I don't consider otaku pandering as a positive trait. Otaku is associated with a negative connotation and thus the pandering.
Pandering itself is negative.
While as an otaku you will enjoy this pandering, ultimately it is emotional manipulation, designed to appeal to "your" mindset specifically.
I personally have too much "pride" to let it get away with such a thing.


Fair enough, you dislike this kind of design, yet it doesen't make a show inheretly bad. To be honest I think that Overlord is much mora a pandering to good ol' D&D and tabletop RPGs in general than to otaku culture. The otaku pandering is really more references here, like the goth loli and trap character that reflects the player's otaku culture. I consider this kind of nod more as a quirky thing than a negative one, albeit the trend has admitelly been extremely overused in the anime medium, so I can see where you are coming from.

You mention all those heros. however those still had flaws and challenges.


Ok, you might feel that I'm drifting away too much, but bear with me please:

At one point in the Kalevala the main villain, the witch Louhi, ruler of Pohjola, summons forth the sea monster Iku-Turso that is suposed to be the strongest creature in the world. Kalevala's MC, the wizard Vainamoinen, proceeds then to jump into the sea monster's head and whisper into his ear that he should return to the bottom of the sea and never go back. The monster is intimidated by Vainamoinen's powerful voice and does as he says. The only flaw Vainmoinen has during the story is being unable to get a wife, which is first used more as comical relief, but then, later in the story, used in a serious way, being one of the causes of his downfall, albeit not directly, as the woman which he won the hand in a duel choses suicide instead of marrying the hero, and he is chastised by the people of Kalevala after that, eventually being expelled from the realm.

Onto Beowulf, his only flaw is to be a guy in which everyone trust. In the end of the story his people (the Geats) end up absorbed by the Danes because they were counting on the king's protection, so when he died they were basically screwed, not prepared to deal with any threat, and so they blamed the king for dying instead of blaming themselves.

You see, the hero will always have flaws, that is true, but the flaws he has may not be HIS flaws, but the flaws of those around him (in a point which Overlord itself dwellsm as Ains' servants are all genocidal maniachs), or may not be noticed at the begining of the story. I cited both Beowulf and the Kalevala not only beacuse both works presents those kinds of "flawed" heroes, but also because they are the main sources of inspiration to Tolkien, which is the main source of inspiration to pretty much any fantasy that came after him. In the Silmarillion and LoTR we have plenty of OP characters with the same pattern as well.
What I'm trying to say is that OP heroes are a mark of the setting... So if you dislike it that much, perhaps fantasy is not the genre for you. Yet, even outside of fantasy we have sucessful examples of extremely OP MCs... Sherlock Holmes comes to my mind right off the bat, for instance.

Overlord seems to go the route of SAO and Mahouka with a Protagonist who will overcome any challenge even through plot convenience or by design. It takes away thrill.

While true we dont know where the story goes two things are mentionable:
a) this anime is one cour so we only get so much and I only talk about the anime
b) afaik the LN has thus far not a single threat to Ainz disproving your idea


God, I hope not. Altho the main problems with Mahouka and SAO were far from the MC's OPness in my point of view.

If you have seen some anime and read some LN you know what kind of bullshit wish fulfillment this is.
The writer is simply unhappy with his life and writes a power fantasy similar to that of such works as The Chronicles of Gor which is just absolute garbage.


I don't care about the author's motivation to write as long as he delivers a good story (Dostoyevsky wrote many books just to pay his gambling debts, lol), and so far I've been liking Overlord. Sure, it's not flawless in any way, but it has a compeling storytelling, decent world building, a somewhat unique MC and a good nostalgic feeeling of a tabletop RPG. I'm concerned that we won't get payoff for the world building in only 13 episodes, though, and I hate reading LN, so if that happens I will most centainly regard this anime as a failure, but until them I will just enjoy the show.

3) A good story is not one which shows you a pitch perfect dream land where everything goes right and you can insert in a blank slate protagonist.
Even if those stories you brought up are the same as Overlord, that would only make them bad too.


This actually don't have any relation with the quality of a work. Shit goes perfectlly well in, say, Alexander Nevsky, just to go for a testified classic movie. That movie is wish-fulfillment at its finest, as it was made in order to inspire Russian soldiers to fight the nazis; the protagonist is extremely bland, everything goes right for him and for Russia, and yet it is a powerful and compeling story and a great movie with certified quality.

TL;DR You have great, classic, critically acclaimed works with all those characteristics that you've pointed out, so to make them your main argument while criticizing something is counter-productive as they are not detrimental to the quality of a piece of entretainment.

Sorry for the wall of text.
Modified by Lacertoss, Aug 12, 2015 4:20 PM
 
Aug 12, 2015 4:19 PM

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mangamuscle said:
Inugirlz said:
how do you have babies with a skeleton though?


... with Ainz boner ;)


lol, nice.

Imeon said:
Inugirlz said:
LOL Albedo is bat shit crazy.

.
..
...

how do you have babies with a skeleton though?


Magic!


Yea that's pretty much the only explanation xD
 
Aug 12, 2015 4:48 PM

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Inugirlz said:
mangamuscle said:


... with Ainz boner ;)


lol, nice.

Imeon said:


Magic!


Yea that's pretty much the only explanation xD


"Momonga-Sama! Make me pregnant!"

Momonga puts his hand on Albedo's stomach. "You are now pregnant."

"Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!"
 
Aug 12, 2015 5:46 PM

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Ainz is an Adamantine Class
 
Aug 12, 2015 6:26 PM

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I came here to discuss some anime and boy do I see some discussing...

Only gonna discuss this episode though. It was interesting to say the least. It seems like Momonga was reliving old memories of playing with his pals (though it was conveyed in a way where it was kind of hard to see) as well as learning more about this new world.

It kind of got jumbled a bit here and there with the side stuff, but it was an okay episode for setting up stuff. Can't wait to see if we have a cool fight on our hands.
 
Aug 13, 2015 12:35 AM
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Dextix said:
We shouldnt be judging anime here, we should be talking about what happened in there, craft theories, have banter.


Problem is most anime are not long enough to have complex stories because of the state of the anime industry. The anime industry itself is just run by insular conservative companies that don't take risks.

I mean really, how deep are most anime? Most anime are pretty straight forward. Like other entertainment deep/intellectual/sophisticated anime is rare. Simple, easy to understand enjoyable anime is the most common.
 
Aug 13, 2015 12:40 AM

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Meh, a pretty below average episode. Throw In ALL THE STEREOTYPES.

Hopefully, expanded later...hopefully.
 
Aug 13, 2015 1:43 AM
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This episode was awesome! I love the pacing of the show. WIll buy BDs for sure. Only complaint is that this should have more eps (and be a little higher budget tho I do love the art) ! Can't decide between Albedo, SHalltear or Nabereal for best girl tho.
 
Aug 13, 2015 4:39 AM

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DragonNeptune said:
This episode was awesome! I love the pacing of the show. WIll buy BDs for sure. Only complaint is that this should have more eps (and be a little higher budget tho I do love the art) ! Can't decide between Albedo, SHalltear or Nabereal for best girl tho.


beta best grill
 
Aug 13, 2015 6:32 AM

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Dextix said:
We shouldnt be judging anime here, we should be talking about what happened in there, craft theories, have banter.

Ha ha, god damn.

Overlord threads are just gifts that keep on giving.
 
Aug 13, 2015 10:04 AM

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Orsonius said:

If you have seen some anime and read some LN you know what kind of bullshit wish fulfillment this is.

Even if they outright suck his dick, it's not wish fulfillment.
The strong will get glorified by the weak.
Ainz is not overpowered if compared to the others in Yggdrasil, and him being cautions of other potential players is proof.
 
Aug 13, 2015 11:16 AM
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We all know Ains can sex up Albedo and Shaltear whenever he wants.
I bet he can fuck Nabe too if he ordered her. Blushing a little bit Nabe chan?
 
Aug 13, 2015 12:29 PM
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joke_lang said:
We all know Ains can sex up Albedo and Shaltear whenever he wants.
I bet he can fuck Nabe too if he ordered her. Blushing a little bit Nabe chan?


He is literally a God to them. He could order any and they would be glad to have a chance to serve him.

As far as love is concerned, there's Albedo because of the edit and Shalltear because her creator is a pervert who put as many fetishes in her as he could and he loves to troll Ainz.
 
Aug 13, 2015 1:49 PM

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Damn I love Aoi Yuuki voicing Clementine, the voice is sexy as fuck.
 
Aug 14, 2015 3:55 AM

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This was a really slow episode. I just couldn't get into it. Perhaps it was because they were fighting monsters and not people.

I did love the body pillow scene. I wasn't expecting that.
 
Aug 14, 2015 4:23 AM

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fredchickens said:

Anyway call me weird but, Clementine is hot as fck.


You are not the only one. And the voice over fits perfectly to her character making her super hot.
 
Aug 14, 2015 4:26 AM

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Blankbite said:
fredchickens said:

Anyway call me weird but, Clementine is hot as fck.


You are not the only one. And the voice over fits perfectly to her character making her super hot.


So you're saying you'd hug her no problem right?
 
Aug 14, 2015 4:34 AM

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Darklight0303 said:
Blankbite said:
You are not the only one. And the voice over fits perfectly to her character making her super hot.


So you're saying you'd hug her no problem right?


She is lovely in a way but it'd be like hugging a magma.
 
Aug 14, 2015 4:38 AM

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Darklight0303 said:
Blankbite said:


You are not the only one. And the voice over fits perfectly to her character making her super hot.


So you're saying you'd hug her no problem right?


I would, when i make sure she has no weapons nearby. And if i cant, im not going anywhere near that psycho.
There is no "Good or "bad" anime. There is only different anime.
 
Aug 14, 2015 6:17 AM

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orangpelupa said:
I wonder why everyone speaking the magic name ecerytime they use it.

Light heal...

Instead of, "hold still, I'll heal you".

In my limited MMO gaming (mainly destiny) I don't remember my character yells their skill.

Speaking the name of attacks and spells is a common anime trope.
Also, any virtual-reality game will face the problem of activating the spells while being inside the VR. It's not like you can press F5 to cast the spell, right? Speaking the spell's name seems easier than teaching the software (or hardware) to read your surface thoughts. And a lot less prone to abuse.

Orsonius said:

>Those are not arguments nor valid reasons to criticize anything.

Why aren't they?
Just declaring them as such doesn't make them such.

They are overused arguments prone to causing anger outbursts, similar to calling anime "chinese cartoon porn".

Of the three, only "MC too OP" is actually observable. But rather irrelevant, as this argument gets leveled against any action anime. Action is about strong men and women beating up lesser people for one reason or another. And in non-action anime (like Overlord), power level is irrelevant. Just watch Acchi Kocchi - the heroine is an unstoppable force of destruction, but moe and can't confess her feelings to the boy she loves.

Are Nazarik's inhabitants like that because they're for the otaku viewers to like, or are they 100% realistic, because only otaku would make NPCs with detailed backstories? Are MMO players transported to another world actually worse than school girls or special forces soldiers? Aren't all young people MMO players these days? (I'm not an MMO player, but I no longer count as young, i guess) Well, in a 100 years they will be, unless something changes dramatically (cue evil killer robots enforcing MMO ban by killing everybody).

Wish fulfillment? Why are you even watching anime that does not fullfill your wishes? because you're a pervert and love that "catharsis" feeling? Well, not all of us are like this.
Or are you one of those holier-than-thou types that gets to decide which wishes are better? Well, I consider my wish to see smart person as a protagonist as more important than your evaluation of my wishes.
 
Aug 14, 2015 10:03 AM
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Sukebe14 said:
Wait till you see legendary king of the forest

xD haha same


 
Aug 14, 2015 11:17 AM

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Albedo is just creepy...is she an Otaku xD?
 
Aug 15, 2015 1:05 AM
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*Yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn* I liked this show at first, but the last several episodes have been a complete snorefest. If the next episode doesn't pick up the pace, I'm dropping.
 
Aug 15, 2015 4:26 AM

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Darklight0303 said:
Blankbite said:


You are not the only one. And the voice over fits perfectly to her character making her super hot.


So you're saying you'd hug her no problem right?


Yes. No doubt. My M-spirit is screaming. Well as long as she doesn't chop anything then it's fine.( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
Aug 15, 2015 4:28 AM

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Blankbite said:
Darklight0303 said:


So you're saying you'd hug her no problem right?


Yes. No doubt. My M-spirit is screaming. Well as long as she doesn't chop anything then it's fine.( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


Well keep in mind what you said :P
 
Aug 15, 2015 4:37 AM

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Ha, that bodypillow.. But now I wonder if he is skeleton then how.. uh.. how they can have babies, dont know how he looks naked but I mean.. he is skeleton, right? :D
 
Aug 15, 2015 5:58 AM

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Fuckkkk, that was the last episode huh. Just when I was beginning to enjoy this series. Momon as our MC is such an enjoyable feat. Well about three days left till we'll get another episode huh, waiting it out is such a bore.
Well cool episode, I wanna know what that Khaj guy is talking about, ninth seat and shit?
So Momon's is of the highest class the same as the royal head guy, the one from two episodes ago? Lol Momon far surpassed him. :p
So there really isn't anyone at his lvl huh, I wanna see more Ygdrassil players in this anime.
 
Aug 15, 2015 5:59 AM

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KamSung said:
Fuckkkk, that was the last episode huh. Just when I was beginning to enjoy this series. Momon as our MC is such an enjoyable feat. Well about three days left till we'll get another episode huh, waiting it out is such a bore.


Last episode? What?
 
Aug 15, 2015 6:00 AM

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Darklight0303 said:
KamSung said:
Fuckkkk, that was the last episode huh. Just when I was beginning to enjoy this series. Momon as our MC is such an enjoyable feat. Well about three days left till we'll get another episode huh, waiting it out is such a bore.


Last episode? What?

I was catching up to the series, this was the last episode in a row. Sorry for the misunderstanding :p
 
Aug 15, 2015 6:47 AM

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KamSung said:
Darklight0303 said:


Last episode? What?

I was catching up to the series, this was the last episode in a row. Sorry for the misunderstanding :p


Ah gotcha. XD
 
Aug 15, 2015 6:54 AM

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Orsonius said:
Exdeath-chan said:


I'm kinda tired of people who complain about his
OPness. It's justified - he's so powerful because he was max level in Yggdrasil and a member of one of the best guilds there. And this isn't really hard to achieve if you put some time and money in a game like that (and that makes him more like a loser, since he didn't have anything better to do than no-lifing in some game). Besides, the main point of this anime seems to be discovering what is wrong with that world and (maybe) returning to reality, so his kickass asskicking skills don't mean much if he barely knows anything about the world he's in. So, for some reason, he doesn't really smell like a Gary Stu for me.


To me it seems people view this from a totally wrong perspective. They seem to ignore the fact that there was an actual human behind every decision in this work of literature. (referring to the script/LN)

The Author deliberately made the Protagonist super powerful, with all the best items etc.
And yet he still throws in these throw away villains which obviously can't stand a chance against the protagonist.

The issue I have is not that he has nothing to struggle against, since the focus seems to be more along the line of Log Horizon.

However the pandering nature of it all bothers me.
Afaik the Author is this guy who loved playing Table Top RPGs (I used to play them too). But then suddenly all his friends got work and lost time so he was alone and to compensate he wrote Overlord.

Yet he deliberately chose a story which panders to this wish fulfillment attitude of social outcast nerds

> Power
> Respect
> Sexual Domination (or desirability)
> Overcoming challenges without much effort

It's a clear reflection of the insecurity of the author and how blatantly he implemented it into his story.

The whole trapped inside a game thing is just an excuse to give the Main Character all these hax powers because, as you correctly stated, it is relatively easy to just achieve max level and find all these times if you played the game long enough (the nature of Online RPGs).

So the issue is found at the very foundation of the show, meaning it fails before it even begins, unless it can actually do something interesting with it's story.

Even superman who is absolutely overpowered has a weakness and a totally different appeal. Not that I am a big fan of Super Man, but at least the idea is not that he is totally powerful and has to overcome challenges which are too easy for him, but that he has to find a way to live like a human despite being super powerful.
Overload is the opposite, he wants to act like a monster to appeal to those around him, but it kinda is boring to watch because there are no real challenges (and also the pacing is horribly slow).

Overall it is clear to me that this is just a market trick to boost the sales of the LN (which succeeded last time I checked the sales skyrocketed). So what am I even expecting here other than a cheap shot.


I see a lot of problems with your mentality. First you went and researched what the author is what he did etc and made yourself come to assumptions about his character etc and become even bias about it. The whole thing blinds you of just looking at the story in-frond of you and makes you try to compare everything that happens on screen with your assumption about the author.
You already lost the ability to just view the anime for what it is.

Second you decided that the character being OP is because of some otaku or author self-insert thing that annoys you(heaven forbid it's just because someone wanted to just make a story about a character with heavy power to the world around him), which also comes from you biases and assumptions about the author or his culture and the Japanese etc.

Also you talk about real challenge. But it seems there are more things in this anime than just opponents. That is why there all this world building and character inner dialogue etc that makes many action fans frustrated. Because the story doesn't seem to be about just killing the bad guy. Opponents even seem like an excuse for the action fans not to get completely bored really. Who said that this is about physical challenges and opponent challenges? Why have you decided to see it as that?
Not to mention that is ridiculous to talk about non-existent physical challenges when the story still seems to be at it's starting point.
Modified by Monad, Aug 15, 2015 7:02 AM
 
Aug 15, 2015 8:05 AM
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^Hmm, I see so many people whining about challenge this and that(even though thats not the point of the story),but once they actually get that after this arc I wonder what they'll whine about next.
The anime itself does have it's share of problems, especially with plot execution.But some of the complaints are just silly.
 
Aug 15, 2015 12:29 PM
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Anyone knows the ost that played in this episode after he talked about his old comrades and went to eat on his own ? it has that saddy feels :'(
 
Aug 15, 2015 12:35 PM

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Lovepoo said:
Anyone knows the ost that played in this episode after he talked about his old comrades and went to eat on his own ? it has that saddy feels :'(


The OST is not out yet so no
 
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