Rokka no Yuusha Episode 6 Discussion

Barion-Zara said:


Lol, this is what the whole series is gonna be about. Don't go expecting it to be resolved in 1 ep XD

Zefyris said:

I didn't think it was necessary to explain Mora's reaction but it seems it is actually.
He dug his own grave by taking hostage the girl he was so eager to defend earlier.
It's like saying "despite showing that I care about her earlier if I'm in danger I'm using her as a shield".
Not only is that extremely low to do that, but that denies all he did earlier as being just an act.
What Mora didn't like isn't him fighting back. She despise him taking Fremy as a hostage. How is "good guy adlet" who was risking his life to protect fremy would do that? Except if he "dropped the act"?
Add to that hans accusation that he can't refute, and you have the perfect seventh here. With the strong accusion on him, it's not like he needed to do a lot. Taking a hostage and in particular Fremy was so low that it's the decisive thing for Mora.
It's just that really.

Hissatsu89 said:


He was unprovokedly attacked and none of the others besides Nashetania showed any sign of stopping Goldof and Hans. Taking Flamie as a hostage was a rash thing to do yes, but it's painfully obvious he had no other choice.
One could also argue that since he defended her so much, would he really kill her?
Really? For someone who was so insistent on Flamie cooperating with the other Braves and even defending her from Goldof and Nashetania you think it was all just an act? I don't agree but okay.
Again, he wasn't left with any other choice. It was obvious they weren't going to let him investigate and gather evidence to prove his innocence and then he was attacked by a highly skilled warrior and a highly skilled assassin out of nowhere. He would have a hard time fighting against them one on one as it is and both of them were attacking him. He had to act fast, and Flamie was the only one who he could take hostage. He didn't do it because he wanted to. He was forced to. Mora was too biased in that situation to see that and that's what bothers me.
He couldn't refute it yes, but he was also never given an opportunity to find evidence to prove his innocence. "Innocent until proven guilty". I'm bringing this saying up again. I'm not saying them suspecting him is wrong because it is suspicious. But they had no proof and they didn't really give him an opportunity to do anything about that. They pushed Adlet to do something he didn't actually want to do by attacking him. And again, no one showed any sign of stopping Goldof and Hans, except Nashetania who shouted Goldof's name. Yet Mora was very quick to talk Chamot down when she wanted to torture Flamie. Seeing as Mora is so incredibly analytical and intelligent I guess I just expected to her to be more reasonable. I can kind of understand Mora's reaction but I don't agree with it.

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

SovereignSky said:
@Zefirys: I don't think I said it was filler....might be misunderstanding something.

So only Vol 1 is mystery-ish aka they resolve who the 7th is in Vol 1?

Rebelhero said:
Alright. This is really dragging on now. The show is half over and they MADE NO PROGRESS AT ALL.

I was expecting an action adventure. not an over hyped game of fuckin Clue.

How do you guys find this so interesting? Its so boring.

Rebelhero said:
Alright. This is really dragging on now. The show is half over and they MADE NO PROGRESS AT ALL.

I was expecting an action adventure. not an over hyped game of fuckin Clue.

How do you guys find this so interesting? Its so boring.

Rebelhero said:
Alright. This is really dragging on now. The show is half over and they MADE NO PROGRESS AT ALL.

I was expecting an action adventure. not an over hyped game of fuckin Clue.

How do you guys find this so interesting? Its so boring.

Zefyris said:

That's because different taste, you know. I love well built (and especially very innovative and original like this one) mystery stories. You obviously don't, liking action show. I personally think that action show are mostly boring. I like action like everyone else, but I like action in between good story element, so RnY is right up my alley. It's not yours it seem. The show has made more progress than most other shows I'm watching this season btw, so that's not even true.


You know I've seen a lot of hypothesis on several boards about "how the culprit did it". And in this episode, it was very funny in a sense because it was like Adlet read those boards and was listing all the possibilities said here and there. Seriously, if I didn't know that the original work was already like that, I would believe that the animation studio looked at the board to see "let's see, what theories should we break next episode..." xD.
It was a very impotant episode even outside of the two very important events happening in it, because it
1) brought the last clues necessary to solve it
2) brought a lot of supplementary information to deny any other possibility than the correct one if you think properly.

Now there's 6 episodes left. Who can find how it was done and by who ? And bonus question, for which reason? (that can be answered as well before the 12th episodes comes) :].

Sokah said:


The entire show is filler. Most anime would get this whole thing done by now and be halfway through the demon lands. The whole show is just going to be them getting the barrier down and starting their journey in order to get people to go buy the LN. Don't think of this as a show, think of it as an ad and you'll be much closer to the truth.

Zapredon said:


What seriously? So we have to wait until final episode to know who are the fake? We have to wait for the sequel to see them fight the demon? Is this even going to help the bluray/dvd selling well in Japan? If it doesn't sell well the it's really the animation team fault. Or is the anime getting close to the LN or what?

CookingPriest said:


Go rewatch ufoubw then. Its right up your alley - full of explosions, fanservice and horrible pacing, with anything relatively thoughtful removed.

SovereignSky said:
I still think it's Nashetania from the way she's been acting since the beginning of the show.
1)The fact she was waiting for Adlett in to get the crest,
2)the "random" attack,
3) hesitating fighting fiends yet not thinking twice about killing a human (though the fiend thing could be an act),

Zefyris said:
Just to correct a few things here x)


1)She wasn't waiting for him. All the braves gets their crest at the exact same time. So when she got hers, she went to the prison to check if Adlet didn't get one. Because well, how much time before someone notice and get him out as a brave? She knew he was a possibility and was trapped there so she went. Saw his creft, got him out. That's really all there was to it. The moment the demon god start to awaken, the crests appear for everyone. So she was just in her palace as usual until that day. Didn't wait anyone.

2) That was hardly a random attack. Could even hardly be called an attack, more like she made him "dance" to frighten him a bit. So you know, if you aren't faithful to your god you can't use your power correctly as a saint. I shouldn't even have to explain that as it's very logical. She believe in her god , afteral, she's a saint chosen by that god. Think that god picked a random person not believing properly as its representative and head of his/her temple?? Adlet did just insult a god that basically saved Nashetania in the past by making her a saint, and therefore making her untouchable by the peoples plotting around her (think of what happened to her 6 years ago) so not only is she believing in that god but that god is pretty much a life saver for her. She was pissed and made him dance as a punishment. If she really wanted to kill, she could have done it with a 100% chance of success any time during their sleep. Saw those attacks against fremy? Think Adlet can dodge that while sleeping on the ground? :o
3 She didn't hesitate. Soldier even well trained are anxious and stressed at their first real fight. As soon as the second one, she was already ok. She fought a lot of fiends with goldof afterwards (cf the sentence " we lost our horse during fghts with the fiends - think goldof is unskilled enough to lose two horse in one single fight? no way as hell, they fought through several ambushes, that's pretty obvious)

SovereignSky said:


By waiting, I meant she went to him instead of just going her way and then meeting up later......I don't remember the insult part though

RoyaiChaos said:

This is a mystery, not an adventure.

Sokah said:


It started as an adventure and we got promised adventure. It will end as a mystery. That is bad storytelling, but good advertising, which is exactly why it was done.

To properly frame the show as a mystery they should have started in the barrier. They then could have gone back and shown you what you needed to know about the characters that is relevant to the barrier. By focusing on adventure at the start rather than the barrier like they should have they are just setting people up to want to get the LN to continue the story at the cost of making the show worse.

This isn't DanMachi bad where lots of elements had no relevance to the show at all and should not have been on screen, but sacrificing show quality to sell books is still bad.

Sokah said:


It started as an adventure and we got promised adventure. It will end as a mystery. That is bad storytelling, but good advertising, which is exactly why it was done.

Sokah said:
To properly frame the show as a mystery they should have started in the barrier. They then could have gone back and shown you what you needed to know about the characters that is relevant to the barrier. By focusing on adventure at the start rather than the barrier like they should have they are just setting people up to want to get the LN to continue the story at the cost of making the show worse.

Sokah said:


It started as an adventure and we got promised adventure. It will end as a mystery. That is bad storytelling, but good advertising, which is exactly why it was done.

To properly frame the show as a mystery they should have started in the barrier. They then could have gone back and shown you what you needed to know about the characters that is relevant to the barrier. By focusing on adventure at the start rather than the barrier like they should have they are just setting people up to want to get the LN to continue the story at the cost of making the show worse.

This isn't DanMachi bad where lots of elements had no relevance to the show at all and should not have been on screen, but sacrificing show quality to sell books is still bad.

Sokah said:


It started as an adventure and we got promised adventure. It will end as a mystery. That is bad storytelling, but good advertising, which is exactly why it was done.

To properly frame the show as a mystery they should have started in the barrier. They then could have gone back and shown you what you needed to know about the characters that is relevant to the barrier. By focusing on adventure at the start rather than the barrier like they should have they are just setting people up to want to get the LN to continue the story at the cost of making the show worse.

This isn't DanMachi bad where lots of elements had no relevance to the show at all and should not have been on screen, but sacrificing show quality to sell books is still bad.

L-Ryoshi said:


-snip-

As a fellow non LN reader, I'd like to address some of your points from an AO point of view:

_________________________________________________________________

Now, for my own observations this episode.

First off, Hans Humpty is fast becoming my favorite character in this title. He's loud, boisterous and quite the rogue, but he's also extremely observant and his logic is quite flawless. Given all the evidence provided, as well as the knowledge of how the barrier works provided by Mora and Hans, Adlet really has the worst alibi to prove his innocence. The barrier won't activate unless the human was standing directly on the altar, pushed the sword in and said the magic words. The specific order of the people entering the temple are as follows:

1. Adlet
2. Nashetania + Goldov + Fremy
3. Chamo
4. Mora
5. Hans

The obvious observation, given that Nash, Goldov and Fremy have no apparent reason to lie about Adlet's first arrival, would be that he was the one who activated the barrier. Of the three that came late, Hans and Mora came together. Hence the only ones with no supporting witness to their whereabouts would be Chamo and Adlet.
Also, Fremy hadn't wanted to join the group, but was forced into it by Adlet. Thus of the two of them who would have any knowledge about there being a 7th Rokka, it would be easy to assume that Adlet, and not Fremy, was the one who wanted all 7 to meet up and hence to set up this Battle Royale situation.

All evidence, as based on pure observation, points to Adlet as the one to activate the barrier. This is what Hans is basing it on.

Hans and Mora are pretty much each other's alibis as of this moment. And considering how both of them seemed to want to gather more information, rather than just starting the kill-game like Goldov and Chamo, I'm more inclined that they actually DO want to get the truth of the matter before they kill anyone. Hans may have took his blade out, but by no means was he the first to attack. He was closest to the door and wanted to prevent anyone from escaping.
He kept egging Adlet on to explain how he could have been innocent, and even whilst talking to Mora in the forest, he was saying how he wanted more information before making judgments. Needless to say, Mora was stopping everyone from making a move before they figured things out (she just couldn't control Goldov). Both are knowledgeable about barriers, so if the other were lying, then they would pretty much know. Also, when Adlet was accusing the other "Saints" in the temple for having the skills to get through the barrier, Mora defended them, whilst saying that it was also possible that some of them may have been able to get in.

Since no new information came to light, I'm sticking with my assumption from last week that both of them are quite low on the rankings, though Hans and his mannerism wins out if between the two of them. Mora just seems way too uptight to be a traitor.


If Adlet is truly innocent, then he just picked the worst way to express it. He was first to arrive on the Altar, he was the only one in position to activate the barrier (as observed by Nashetania, Goldov and Fremy when they rushed in), and all his excuses and theories were shot down as soon as they were raised. Normally, I would say that given the overwhelming evidence against him, he has to be innocent, but given the possibility that he had done it unconsciously/he had a second persona who did it, then I retain my doubts about him.
Still, I fully understand why he chose to run, as well as why he chose to elect Fremy as the hostage, both of which would lean me towards him being innocent. First off, he didn't want to fight/kill anyone before he could prove his innocence. Considering his boast as the Strongest man in the World, to not show his strength in such a situation would only show that he has compassion and a respect for life (something which I doubt a faker would possess). Second, of the ones he could take a hostage who wouldn't fight back, you could pretty much narrow it down to two people, Nashetania and Fremy. If he took the former, no doubt Goldov would relentlessly continue to pursue him to hell and back, regardless of nightfall, fog or even the fires of hell itself. Given no one really wants Fremy or trusts her due to her background, it was an obvious choice.
It doesn't help that Fremy doesn't trust him, and I'm pretty surprised that she did patch him up, but like she said: There's still a 1% chance that he's the real deal" and she's willing to bet on it.

My suspicion of him is slowly waning, given the mountain of evidence against him being a bit too ridiculously obvious, and the fact that there was a period between him killing off the guardians and when he rushed into the temple itself. Still, I cannot fully trust his ever-changing character. Instead of calming people down to gather more intelligence like Mora tried to do in the temple, he immediately started accusing others for doing the deed. I feel like there's still something about him we don't know yet that isn't quite right, and hence my theory of him being two-faced still stands.

Also, his theory of an 8th I feel shouldn't be taken to heart. He himself cannot explain how he could be innocent, and his speculation of an 8th is backed by NO evidence at all. I feel like this is more of a delusion, and a large scoop of arrogance, that he has to be feeling that someone is out to get him because he is the self proclaimed, self acknowledged "Strongest man in the World". In other words, he's so desperate that he'll do anything to clear his own name, even create fictional characters so that others will believe his nigh impossible theories.


Fremy may have been on the bottom of my list last week, but I don't understand why she didn't just tie Adlet up after tending to his wounds. First of all, you don't trust him 99%, second of all, he kidnapped and poisoned you when he made his escape from the temple. Her current actions don't indicate that she only trusts him 1% at all. If anything, the fact that she is showing him such camaraderie, throws suspicion her way. My first thought was that she could be doing so because she knew for a fact that Adlet was a true Rokka, which wouldn't be possible unless she herself was the 7th.
Also, to get Adlet on her side with her actions, that seems more like an insurance that if Adlet somehow does figure out a way to prove his innocence, he will feel that Fremy did still have an inkling of faith in him (hence she is a good person, ergo not the 7th herself).

Nashetania's actions this episode drove home quite well just how guilty she seems. She's a princess who participated in Civil war with her own father. You would think that at an even younger age, that she'd already experienced such things as betrayal of people close to her and such, no? Yet the way she acts, what with the "Oh god, Adlet absolutely can't be the fake, but I can't provide ANY reasons at all" would be similar to what I wrote about Fremy's case. The difference being whilst Fremy used actions in an isolated setting, Nashetania used it whilst in front of everyone.
Not to digress too much, but if anyone has played the game of Mafia, you would know that one of the best tactics would be to support the first innocent party who is accused by others. That way, if the situation is revealed that you were correct that the innocent party was actually innocent, then your own chance of being suspected decreases dramatically, since your alibi after that would be "I told you, and I was right".
Her support of Adlet also struck a nerve with Goldov, which I feel was calculated. There's no way that Nashetania wouldn't know Goldov having feelings for her. If she were truly the 7th, then just siding with Adlet would raise a reaction with Goldov, she must have known it all along.


Likewise for Goldov, his reactions seem to have been calculated by Nashetania, though that exchange that she had with him straight before he attacked Adlet raises a question: Did he REALLY do it out of jealousy? Or was it to hide another motive (ie, to protect the interests of the Princess). Given that we found out how the Rokka symbol works, I'm gravitating more along the first, rather than the second. Why? Simple. Because if he really did kill Adlet knowing that he was a true Rokka, then a petal on the flower would disappear from 5 other bodies, leaving just one guilty party with a fake Rokka mark on his/her body. If he was in any way suspecting his liege to be the fake, then killing Adlet would do nothing but prove her guilt. Same with if he himself were the killer. Thus as of this moment, I can speculate with confidence that Goldov is neither the 7th, nor does he know who the 7th is. He's just a jealous bodyguard who doesn't like Adlet getting chummy with his Hime-sama.

However, as before, I don't see how Goldov, Nashetania or Fremy could have done the deed, given they were all together between fighting fiends and arriving at the Temple.
More information is definitely required before I decided their further guilt or innocence.

And finally Chamo... the one I would suspect right after Adlet. The reason being that her whereabouts were unknown prior to arriving at the temple, even though she knew all the other Saints, she did not travel with any of them, and of course the fact that she is the most inclined to torture and kill people regardless of reason or consequences. She may act an impatient child, but that could all be a ploy (ala the movie Orphan). The fact that they haven't gotten much into her story or her alibi yet also makes her suspicious (for lack of information and confirmation). Plus the fact that Fremy couldn't kill her, and everyone else bar Mora seems afraid of her can also attest to her ability. I get the feeling that when Mora was talking about Saints who can get through the barrier, she was specifically talking about Chamo. She could very well have dug a hole in the ground near the temple entrance and waited for Adlet to be distracted before rushing into and out of the temple....

One more thing to raise: I was watching with Subs so I can't be 100% sure, but did Adlet REALLY only accuse the "Saints" of being the one to activate the barrier? Like... he didn't suspect any of the guys at all when he was arguing with Mora???

Anyway, current episode list (from most suspicious to least):

1. Chamo
2. Adlet
3. Nashitania
4. Fremy
5. Goldov
6. Hans
7. Mora

That's quite a big shakeup of the rankings.
Now I really want more information to speculate on the culprit.

As for the method:
My current hypothesis would be that something happened between the period that Adlet was rushed by the guards, saw the Fiend transform and escape, and noticed the fog.
That is.... if Adlet were truly innocent.
There was an effective period between him returning to the temple and what happened before. Also, just because the guards attacked the first person that didn't enter the temple (effectively proving that Adlet DID open the door first), it says nothing that a second person could slip into the temple during the fight between Adlet and said guardians, to perform the ritual and run away when he was distracted by the transforming Fiend.....

If Adlet is less than innocent.... well I'm betting we'll get an alternate set of flashbacks at the end showing what actually happened.

Either way, this show makes for exciting stuff.

LastIllusion said:
Interesting episode, good to see bits of Adlets past, hope we gonna see Flamies too soon.
The one thing that irritates me sometimes are the illogical thinking of most characters.
Why would Adlet not think of something like the culprit made himself invicible or at least think about calmly before spouting nonsense.
Goldovs behaviour wouldve been a perfect opportunity to shift the guilt to him, but instead he kidnaps Flamie to make things even worse.
Adlet is still annoying with his strongest in the world yapping but I gotta say he has a pretty cool fighting style.

Yohimo_asakura said:
I think that seventh is chamot, he is so weird and suspicious, even more we dont know anything about him, except that he is strong. I wonder how did he appeared in the temple...

Yohimo_asakura said:
I think that seventh is chamot, he is so weird and suspicious, even more we dont know anything about him, except that he is strong. I wonder how did he appeared in the temple...7

Zefyris said:
If you think you track a man based on the blood left in the forest , feel free to think that. I'll be simply honest here and say that I don't believe it's realistic at all. Peoples being able to track someone wounded who run at full speed using simply blood stains with the amount of problem I listed above would clearly be a plothole to me. If you have a dog then why not. But a human doing that? Sounds soooo fishy to me.

Jonny_Mhl said:
And again, she was the first one at the fortress followed by Adlet + Fremy and Nashetania + Golgof. Also she departed from the fortress 2 days before Adlet got here with Fremy. Something is off here or bad written/translated.

GSupernova said:


As far as I can tell though, this is the third plothole(and if not that, then extremely conveniently written circumstance) in the series thus far.

Tylaen said:


1. NO ONE among the pursuer's are known trackers, except Adlet who is the running man.

2. By all accounts, most anime blood spilling Is generally exaggerated for dramatic effect. This does not seem to be the case here.

3. Due to the above facts, with the supposed superhuman speed that Adlet is running + fog + that such small wounds don't exactly leave a very visible or comprehensive trail unless you actually know which way he went.

4. Editing this In, however a small thing was that Hans'es knife hit him near his spine and into his back. Running with that there may have been seriously exhausting.

Inugirlz said:
So this is offically more of a mystery than adventure at the moment,

i meant to read this anime's Light Novel but then I ended up starting Overlord instead...am I gonna get a lot more details and fun from this Light Novel or should i just wait until the anime progresses a bit more? Suggestions? Sometimes mysteries are best read and not watched (although i'd still do both)

...are there any deaths in this story? (Chamot should die.)

Inugirlz said:


Woot! Thanks for the feedback. I normally get into most things I read so I don't think that will be a problem. Just wish there were more volumes out >.<

SweetCoconut said:
Nice episode and i need more of Adlet's past.

To LN readers, what episode do you think they'll reveal the 7th Brave?