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| Forgot to comment before; this episode, IMO had the best animation of this whole season. Hope it gets even better the final two episodes. I'm really gonna miss KnB. D: |
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Kerozinn said: Hakaya said: I am not a manga reader but it looked to me as if it was Kuruko, I am pretty sure we will find out soon. it was waaaay more obvious who it is in the anime version compared to the manga in my opinion. How exactly is it obvious? There wasn't even any mention of a second stage of Zone until a few episodes ago. He is completely shadowed out and is about the same height as a regular player, so it's not Akashi. Besides him, I have no guesses and I don't see how any anime-only could know exactly who it is. |
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shonenking said: Bullshit BULLSHIT pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic This anime has become sooo bad. It's a disgrace. A DISGRACE Kuroko is a slow unskilled loser. There is no way he could stop Akashi even if he knew. Akashi was faster than even Aomine how the hell could Kuroko possible steal the ball. There is no way. Doesn't matter if Kuroko stands before him or not. He can easily get past him or just throw. And that's not all, Kuroko only looked at Kagami, so it would have been even easier to pass him because he has to get Akashi in his sight. Akashis character design has been brilliant so far. And in just one episode they destroy the entire character design and make a poor standard character out of him. Wth with his conversation in his mind. Wth with not being arrogant, boastful and absolute anymore. Wth with this pathetic backstory. Wth with this unstable crumbling personality. Why the hell did he even falter when Kuroko stood before him. Kagamis zone last an eternity and Akashis runs out after like a second. Why do they have to implement this shitty "friendship" and 2nd zone door stuff. It ruins everything. Why do all characters have fucking perfect insight all the time, no matter how stupid they are?! How is it possible that Rakuzan is so damn useless and does nothing at all. Even if Akashi doesn't expect anything from them. Fuck, they are uncrowned kings. They should have at least a bit of pride and dignity and try to win their 1 on 1 or just try to be the best themselves. If I was an uncrowned king I would never stop trying to surpass the miracles. Why is it so damn predictable. Do they really think it will make the anime better if Seirin wins against Rakuzan in the first try?! Why not let them lose and let a few of them take revenge later on or on the world stage. How can they end this bullshit without even showing Aomine in action again. He did not even train or try so far. He is totally superior. He owned Kagami in the blink of an eye when he lent his shoes to him. Call me hater, Rakuzan fanboy or whatever. I don't care. It's not like I compulsively want to see Akashi win and Seirin lose. I am totally fine with Seirin winning, but not under those circumstances. The story was created in an awful way. It's too soon for them to beat Rakuzan. If they must end it with season 3 and want to let Seirin win over Rakuzan they should have done it in a different way, that doesn't ruin passing, character design and the overall story. I hate it when things I liked and enjoyed get on the wrong path and are treated in a way that will worsen work. Well, I've let of some steam and calmed down about now. It just makes me sad. I seriously hope this is a bait. If it isn't, I feel sorry for you. Torrible said: Swar said: Here comes the fucking bullshit ending of Kuroko no Basket. Enjoyed the series thus far, but the ending of anime anime/manga defines my overall score. This shit is 7/10 being generous all because of this garbage ass ending. 1. You're telling me that the uncrowned Kings can't do anything? I know Akashi told them he doesn't have any expectations, but this shit is ridiculous. 2. How long is this bitch ass Zone gonna last for Kagami, this BS powerup has been going on for the WHOLE game. 3. So Akashi faltered because of Kuroko, who is totally inferior to every person on the court skills wise? There's no way he should be able to catch up to Akashi. 4. "I have all my friend's feelings with me"-typical shonen bs God damn, i never thought such a good series would turn to utter garbage towards the ending. Instead of enjoying the episodes, I find myself cringing at all the cheesy lines and asspulls. 1. Firstly, here's the boxscore of the match so far.  Seems to me the Uncrowned Kings (UKs) have done plenty. And I only included what transpired onscreen. When they took a massive 25 point lead on Seirin, most of their goals were offscreen. However, - Players crumbling under pressure (choking) is a real thing. The UKs demonstrated their lack of mental steel against Shutoku where their performance dipped drastically when the Shutoku scored 4 (or 5) in a row. It took Akashi threatening to offer his eyes to get them playing normally again. - Bench players shutting down star players is a regular thing in the NBA. Think Leonard on Lebron and more recently Delly on the season MVP Steph Curry (the best shooter in the league). Curry scored ZERO points while Delly (an undrafted bench player) was marking him (albeit only for 1 game). That didn't even happen here. The UKs were stopped mostly by teamwork and only a handful of times. Kiyoshi is an UK as well and as the boxscore suggests, his fight with Nebuya is pretty even as expected. His right of postponement also allows him to avoid Nebuya's block attempts. Hayama was stopped a couple of times (by teamwork) but he also crossed over Kagami (a superior player to him) a few times so that sort of evened things out. Also, Izuki is smarter than him, and basketball IQ can make up for the gap in technical abilities. Mibuchi was stopped a few times as well, but he dropped 32 frigging points on Seirin and sent their 2nd best scorer and motivational captain to the bench with 4 fouls. It was only due to Koga's animal instinct and Hyuga observing from the bench that the trick to his shots were found out. His contribution is undeniably massive. 2. Already answered as onewinged789 has stated. 3. Did you even pay attention? Him faltering has little to do with Kuroko's ability as a player. It's about his ultimate trump card being broken after discarding his teammates. It's about him sensing defeat for the first time in his life. Akashi broken down because he values victory too highly and has never tasted defeat in his life. Plus, he has actual mental issues. I could make a list of Kuroko's attributes and contributions to his team, but the fact that Kuroko has the respect of every GoM member is sufficient proof of his ability. Akashi doesn't have the Hawk Eye and Kuroko came in from behind Kagami. In the Kaijou match, when Kise was trapped by 3 Seirin players, Aomine said that because he was in the process of landing on his pivot foot, there was no way he could avoid the steal that was coming. You can imagine that was what happened to Akashi. No matter how fast he was, there was little way for him to avoid something that appeared right at the very last second right after landing on his foot after passing Kagami. You also have to factor in how the shock of seeing Kuroko there momentarily retarded his reactions. 4. Players in the same sports team demonstrating camaraderie. What a novel concept. Hint: has nothing to do with the anime being shounen. Watch an actual match. You'd be surprised at the amount of high-5s, backslaps, hugs and fist pumps in just one quarter. Torrible. You. Are. A. Motherfriggin'. LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like seriously, dude. I hope that I can one day become as passionate as you are. Until then, I'll just be your hype man. LET'S GET SOME HYPE IN HERE PEOPLE!!!!! HYPE FOR THE MAN WHO USES FACTS AND LOGICAL REASONING TO REFUTE PATHETIC UNJUSTIFIED CLAIMS THAT HATERS MAKE!!!!!! HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better get the tissues out ladies & gents... 2 more episodes to go... |
| "There's no shame in falling down... true shame is to not stand up again!" "Aah? Of course I won't miss!" "My blood tastes like Iron." "Run through the tape in life! Never give up! Run through the tape!" |
NoongaJuice said: -snip- Better get the tissues out ladies & gents... 2 more episodes to go... Wow, thanks. I'm speechless. :) I don't know why I get so passionate about KnB (I'm usually a lurker), but I'm seriously going to miss it when it's over. The feeling hasn't quite hit me yet, but I think it will when episode 75 comes around. Will probably make some videos after that. Hype for the final 2 episodes of the series! Hope Production I.G. spared no expense for them. |
| That Akashi face O_O |
| Denerwować się to mścić się na własnym zdrowiu za głupotę innych. |
shonenking said: Bullshit BULLSHIT pathetic pathetic pathetic pathetic This anime has become sooo bad. It's a disgrace. A DISGRACE Kuroko is a slow unskilled loser. There is no way he could stop Akashi even if he knew. Akashi was faster than even Aomine how the hell could Kuroko possible steal the ball. There is no way. Doesn't matter if Kuroko stands before him or not. He can easily get past him or just throw. And that's not all, Kuroko only looked at Kagami, so it would have been even easier to pass him because he has to get Akashi in his sight. Akashis character design has been brilliant so far. And in just one episode they destroy the entire character design and make a poor standard character out of him. Wth with his conversation in his mind. Wth with not being arrogant, boastful and absolute anymore. Wth with this pathetic backstory. Wth with this unstable crumbling personality. Why the hell did he even falter when Kuroko stood before him. Kagamis zone last an eternity and Akashis runs out after like a second. Why do they have to implement this shitty "friendship" and 2nd zone door stuff. It ruins everything. Why do all characters have fucking perfect insight all the time, no matter how stupid they are?! How is it possible that Rakuzan is so damn useless and does nothing at all. Even if Akashi doesn't expect anything from them. Fuck, they are uncrowned kings. They should have at least a bit of pride and dignity and try to win their 1 on 1 or just try to be the best themselves. If I was an uncrowned king I would never stop trying to surpass the miracles. Why is it so damn predictable. Do they really think it will make the anime better if Seirin wins against Rakuzan in the first try?! Why not let them lose and let a few of them take revenge later on or on the world stage. How can they end this bullshit without even showing Aomine in action again. He did not even train or try so far. He is totally superior. He owned Kagami in the blink of an eye when he lent his shoes to him. Call me hater, Rakuzan fanboy or whatever. I don't care. It's not like I compulsively want to see Akashi win and Seirin lose. I am totally fine with Seirin winning, but not under those circumstances. The story was created in an awful way. It's too soon for them to beat Rakuzan. If they must end it with season 3 and want to let Seirin win over Rakuzan they should have done it in a different way, that doesn't ruin passing, character design and the overall story. I hate it when things I liked and enjoyed get on the wrong path and are treated in a way that will worsen work. Well, I've let of some steam and calmed down about now. It just makes me sad. LOL you came here to watch season 3 of KUROKO NO BASKET and you're still expecting logic? LOL please this is a feel good anime. In a logical world Rakuzan would win (they should win) but alas, our MCs have plot armor |
| alright this is getting ridiculous now Kuroko has an emperor's eye |
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| Awwww, Akashi's smile! <3 |
Torrible said: Swar said: Here comes the fucking bullshit ending of Kuroko no Basket. Enjoyed the series thus far, but the ending of anime anime/manga defines my overall score. This shit is 7/10 being generous all because of this garbage ass ending. 1. You're telling me that the uncrowned Kings can't do anything? I know Akashi told them he doesn't have any expectations, but this shit is ridiculous. 2. How long is this bitch ass Zone gonna last for Kagami, this BS powerup has been going on for the WHOLE game. 3. So Akashi faltered because of Kuroko, who is totally inferior to every person on the court skills wise? There's no way he should be able to catch up to Akashi. 4. "I have all my friend's feelings with me"-typical shonen bs God damn, i never thought such a good series would turn to utter garbage towards the ending. Instead of enjoying the episodes, I find myself cringing at all the cheesy lines and asspulls. Torrible said: 1. Firstly, here's the boxscore of the match so far. Seems to me the Uncrowned Kings (UKs) have done plenty. And I only included what transpired onscreen. When they took a massive 25 point lead on Seirin, most of their goals were offscreen. 2. Already answered as onewinged789 has stated. Haha, you've owned yourself with the score. Lets assume this scoreboard is correct, although the score count has always been deficient and often didn't match the plays. Akashi was at least involved in 42 points and Mayzumi in 20 points. So much for the uncrowned kings being useful. Reo is the only one who really did something. Now to 2. , stamina in the zone. Lets compare everything. Blocking and attacking to score points drains by FAR the most stamina. Kagami is 1st in terms of blocking and scoring with a great lead. One person is close in terms of scoring, it's Reo. But if you compare the strain on the body from scoring with 3s or scoring with a meteor jam, dunk or dribbling/running through+lay-up then it's totally clear that lastly drains far more stamina than throwing threes. Being in the zone drains even more stamina. No one gets even close to Kagamis stats, so him not moving and just being passively intimidating is just a stupid excuse. He exceeded the zone limit BY FAR. Even more, because the deeper in the zone you are, the more exhausting it should be. Superior players who are well capable of supervising their power efficiency in the zone like Aomine and Kise are not even close to Kagamis zone anymore. Torrible said: However, - Players crumbling under pressure (choking) is a real thing. The UKs demonstrated their lack of mental steel against Shutoku where their performance dipped drastically when the Shutoku scored 4 (or 5) in a row. It took Akashi threatening to offer his eyes to get them playing normally again. - Bench players shutting down star players is a regular thing in the NBA. Think Leonard on Lebron and more recently Delly on the season MVP Steph Curry (the best shooter in the league). Curry scored ZERO points while Delly (an undrafted bench player) was marking him (albeit only for 1 game). That didn't even happen here. The UKs were stopped mostly by teamwork and only a handful of times. Kiyoshi is an UK as well and as the boxscore suggests, his fight with Nebuya is pretty even as expected. His right of postponement also allows him to avoid Nebuya's block attempts. Hayama was stopped a couple of times (by teamwork) but he also crossed over Kagami (a superior player to him) a few times so that sort of evened things out. Also, Izuki is smarter than him, and basketball IQ can make up for the gap in technical abilities. Mibuchi was stopped a few times as well, but he dropped 32 frigging points on Seirin and sent their 2nd best scorer and motivational captain to the bench with 4 fouls. It was only due to Koga's animal instinct and Hyuga observing from the bench that the trick to his shots were found out. His contribution is undeniably massive. -Playing a bit worse and getting nervous when you are under pressure is totally acceptable, but just to a certain degree. They have to be at least composed enough to play fairly normal. It's ridiculous to assume that they are a total useless mess, just because the enemy team has a comeback and their captain doesn't rely on them anymore. They have A LOT of high-grade basketball experience, with experience comes certainty and confidence. The uncrowned kings (not just the Rakuzan ones) actually didn't lose their confidence, pride and will to play successful basketball, although they've never won against Teiko before. That should say enough about their determination and love to basketball. Additionally, if it wasn't for the generation of miracles, every single one of them would be the ace of their own team, with an open path to the professional world. They've actually all been aces before. They should have a lot of pride and dignity with a strong will to improve themselves to maybe surpass the generation of miracles. There is no way that such players/persons just stop to do anything at all and accept the trashtalk, inferiority to the GOM and their 1v1 defeat in their championship match to a bunch of nonames. -Sure, just because they are not yet known doesn't mean they are inferior. If you have enough experience and determination and gradually try to improve yourself, there is a possibility to be as good as anyone, if it isn't something with restrictions and requirements where you need to have a certain build hence genetics. I don't know about Leonard on Lebron or Delly on Curry, but in a story it has to be implemented in a good way. It must be indicated that it's reasonable. It wasn't the case for Kuroko no Basket. It got increasingly unreasonable and worse and took it' toll on the entire series. It worsend the complete work. -Of course there are a few cases where the uncrowned kings dominated and also a few where they didn't. I am not complaining about every single second. I enjoyed Kuroko no Basket A LOT previously, I am no pointless hater. I am extremely passionate about storys and I hate it when they're ruined. I think the writers have the responsibility to create the best possible work for the reader/viewer until the end, even if it means less profit. I've seen too much awesome works with great concepts go to waste, just because the author/director/producers are incompetent. In the end it's the audience who is the bereaved. Also I don't want Seirin to get completely crushed either, they are good after all. But a magical friendship/willpower comeback with unimaginative power ups and mindless weakening of the enemy while also ruining and contradicting the previous character designs is not the way to go. The development and the course it's has taken is pretty awful and doesn't make too much sense. -If you are talking about IQ it does make even less sense. Makoto Hanamiya is WAY smarter than Izuki and I am pretty sure that Midorima is smarter than Makoto Hanamiya and Akashi is out of question. Akashi is smarter than anyone introduced so far. This would make the chance to beat Rakuzan even lower and out of reach momentary. -Hyuga getting 4 fouls is his own fault. The concept of Reos 3 magical shoots is pretty stupid and pointless in the first place and to counter it with some other stupid measure like animal instincts doesn't make it better. 32 points is a lot, it didn't seems that much to me, but well, it's just 10 threes and no one is really missing anyway in Kuroko no Basket. Torrible said: 3. Did you even pay attention? Him faltering has little to do with Kuroko's ability as a player. It's about his ultimate trump card being broken after discarding his teammates. It's about him sensing defeat for the first time in his life. Akashi broken down because he values victory too highly and has never tasted defeat in his life. Plus, he has actual mental issues. I could make a list of Kuroko's attributes and contributions to his team, but the fact that Kuroko has the respect of every GoM member is sufficient proof of his ability. Akashi doesn't have the Hawk Eye and Kuroko came in from behind Kagami. In the Kaijou match, when Kise was trapped by 3 Seirin players, Aomine said that because he was in the process of landing on his pivot foot, there was no way he could avoid the steal that was coming. You can imagine that was what happened to Akashi. No matter how fast he was, there was little way for him to avoid something that appeared right at the very last second right after landing on his foot after passing Kagami. You also have to factor in how the shock of seeing Kuroko there momentarily retarded his reactions. -I paid attention, but it seems like you didn't. Tell me, how is his trump card broken, just because an insignificant insect stands before him. You can't make yourself invisible or dissolve your physical appearance, so it's nothing special or surprising that Kuroko or anyone can atleast do this much. But the same applys for Kuroko. His entire ability is preposterous. I have always condoned it, it was marginal, but still within limits of what is acceptable and the complete work was great. Akashi was introduced as genius. He knew that Kuroko was right behind Kagami. It doesn't make any sense that he comes to the conclusion that Kuroko a normal physical being with normal or slower than normal movement would just "disappear". He stood BEHIND Kagami, so it's nothing to be surprised about if another hindrence BEHIND Kagami appears. Even if he is smaller than Kagami and behind him, it's not possible to cover Kuroko completely. Akashi should have seen him and even if he didn't see his torso, he would see his legs. It's impossible for Kagami or Kuroko to cover the feet and legs of Kuroko with Kagamis feet and legs. Akashi should also hear the steps of Kuroko. Sure, it's said that you fade out the noise of your surroundings to focus even harder within the zone, but that should apply for the sound right in front of you and the thing you concentrate on. Even if it still applys for that my arguments before that are more than enough. So much for that. Just standing in front of him doesn't beat his trump card, no reason to even falter. Kuroko is COMPLETELY inferior and chanceless to Akashi OUTSIDE of his zone. So it should be MORE than IMPOSSIBLE if he is in zone modus. His speed, power etc. increased drastically, so much that he even beat 3 uncrowned kings by himself. The difference is so much like a 4 year old having a fist fight to death vs Dwayne The Rock Johnson. So no reason to falter. His decision making and reaction time was top notch so far. Even if he lost his line of sight to Kuroko, THE SAME APPLYS FOR KUROKO, as he watched Kagami. Also just not being able to block one basket isn't even nearly defeat. His team led by a big margin and as he was, he would have easily scored way more than Seirin. He is smart enough to know that. He didn't falter EVER before. In fact he was introduced as the most composed character by far. Him being so unstable and crumbling so radically and fast is irrational. The makers don't abide their own character design and spontaneously change them and let them act in a way they never would have acted. Akashis personalitys are silly and totally pointless too. Such a wasted conversation with himself in his mind. He should rather be like Hyuga and clutch Hyuga. And how can he even improve if he casts his cool superior side away. The one surfacing now is the pathetic one that totally lost against Murasakibara. -Even if you claim that he doesn't have the hawk or eagle eye (this concept too is pretty stupid) his intelligence and perception are more than enough to comprehend all of his spatial surroundings, actually with his skill level he should be able to do it even better than anyone so far. And from what I've seen he actually did. I think that it is that what his emperor eye is about combined with his strategic thinking. It would be just too stupid to assume that he has an supernatural sharingan eye, just because he has heterochromia, that would make the anime once more worse. Akashi dodged multiple stealing attempts at the same time or in a row before. Also some of them he shouldn't have seen like an eagle spear from behind. -Sure, just keep lying to yourself and search for further excuses. Akashi overpowerd Kagamis zone speed and his ridiculous pointless animal instinct with his own zone speed and a normal feint. He wasn't really in motion when he faced Kuroko. Akashi had a perfect form with good balance. They stood in front of each other and stared at each other. Akashi faltered for no reason while time stopped and everyone talked their mind about how impressive it was that Kuroko went in the opposite direction of Kagami lol. The makers want to obsesseively make something special and epic from something that is nothing special at all, rather more annoying and messed up and name his eyes "quasi emperor eyes". I mean wtf. Again, you can't fake physical presence and you can't pass through it no matter how awesome you are or how much skill you have. It's totally obvious to spread yourself in a wider space. You say no matter how fast he is there was little way for Akashi to avoid the steal? You really haven't paid attention so far and just try to defend it like a fanboy who doesn't want to realise and admit that it has gotten way worse. Like I already explained, his form was completely fine and we've already seen that the internal logic in this fictional world in terms of speed in the zone is completely illogical based on real life logic, but it counts as rational. NO ONE could even touch or interfer with Kise, Aomine or Kagami in zone, because they have been superhumanly fast. No one could keep up. Akashi was even faster or just as fast, just seemed faster because he thought further ahead, but he was as fast minimum. Kuroko could not even really keep up with any of the generation of miracles outside of their zone and he is inferior to any normal player in speed and any other physical ability. You are saying that Akashi didn't have any choices? He could merely overpower him with real time action or take a step back (like he often did before) and reset his attack pattern. Also, just to give you a hypothetical scenario, if Akashi was off balance (which he wasn't) he would have more than enough choices with his hands/arms alone or suddenly using his hypothetical drive to his advantage. Just to make sure you understand I will say it again. Akashi was introduced as the most composed and calm character by far. He wouldn't be shocked neither would it influence his reaction if they would abide their own character design. Akashi was the captain who stood above the other generation of miracles members and the "final boss" and it comes to such an pathetic and forced end. Torrible said: 4. Players in the same sports team demonstrating camaraderie. What a novel concept. Hint: has nothing to do with the anime being shounen. Watch an actual match. You'd be surprised at the amount of high-5s, backslaps, hugs and fist pumps in just one quarter. Team members being friendly to each other and rejoicing if their team scores or someone does something good is nothing special. They encourage each other with such gestures and are happy because they smell victory (mostly egoisticly for themselves), but you can't compare that to excessively corny anime. The players IRL don't play for friendship, but for money and prestige. The minority mabybe started out of passion and fun instead of superficial greed but that's secondary. They also don't get irrational super powers just because they like each other. NoongaJuice said: Torrible. You. Are. A. Motherfriggin'. LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like seriously, dude. I hope that I can one day become as passionate as you are. Until then, I'll just be your hype man. LET'S GET SOME HYPE IN HERE PEOPLE!!!!! HYPE FOR THE MAN WHO USES FACTS AND LOGICAL REASONING TO REFUTE PATHETIC UNJUSTIFIED CLAIMS THAT HATERS MAKE!!!!!! HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better get the tissues out ladies & gents... 2 more episodes to go... It should be already clear that I am not a hater. I enjoyed KnB so far and rated the first seasons highly because there was still a lot tolerance to make it a good complete work left. But I am not such a pity person to unreasonably fanboy a work which quality dropped so significantly and disappointed all of it's smart and honest audience. Just live in your little dream world and continue to suppress the harsh truth instead of just admitting that the quality decreased a lot and that they've ruined the complete work. You seem to not even possess the slightest bit of common sense if you really think that his arguments are facts or even reasoned. Those are merely insentient coerced excuses, because he can not recognise the fact that it is not well done anymore, just like you. |
shonenkingJun 15, 2015 5:35 PM
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| @ShonenKing Akashi's initial size up get's Kagami to move to his right, Akashi crosses over from right to left (akashi's left), crosses back to his right and then Kuroko steals the ball. Akashi needs to complete size up, first crossover and second crossover to breakdown Kagami. Kagami reacts to the size up by planting his left foot getting ready to push off to his right, both Akashi and Kuroko see this and it's safe to assume that Kuroko is already on his way to Kagami's left as soon as he plants his foot (quasi-emperor eye and shit)....while akashi is doing the first crossover. So lets look at the timeline Akashi sizes up -> Kagami plants -> Kuroko moves left -> Akashi crosses to kagami's right -> Kagami moves right -> Akashi crosses to Kagami's left -> guess who's already there. For the fun of it, lets pretend Akashi knew about Kuroko moving left, to do that first crossover to Kagami's right (for Akashi it's right to left) he'd need to plant his left foot to make the fake effective. If he wanted to change his mind, finish the move and pass Kagami to his right he'd need to bring his right leg all the way over and try to get passed Kagami's defensive stance (he's 6'3 so we'll pretend his arms cover a 37ish inch radius around his body), but he's already caused Kagami to move in that direction making it even more difficult, AND he's only 5'8 so it's not like he's got a Durant stride that would let him wrap around the defender. Or Akashi takes two more crossover dribbles giving Kuroko more time to take one step to the right. |
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shonenking said: -snip- 1. I don't know what you are trying to prove with that. The uncrowned were useful to a degree was my point. Your, I mean Swar's comment made it seem they were entirely useless and their collapse was totally out of nowhere. I proved a) they did a lot b) their current collapse not only had a good reason behind it *(their captain, dictator, playmaker, and best player collapsing mentally in a way that spreads to the whole team), but it had precedents in real life (anyone who watches the NBA and witnessed the collective collapse of teams will know it happens) and in fiction (their own collapse against Shutoku, albeit momentarily). Akashi was the one who dictates the iso plays so of course he's going to be responsible for most of the points. The uncrowned kings can only do something when they are passed the ball and more than half the time they did. 2. You are just repeating the same argument, but louder and longer. The zone consumes more stamina because a) It makes you move faster. Moving faster leads to quicker fatigue. b) It puts you in a higher state of concentration so your neurons burn more energy. Players who play chess burn more calories than someone sitting still, but NOT more than someone chasing his marker all over the court (S2 zone vs zone), and certainly doesn't produce lactic acid or induce strain in muscles. Being passive in zone consume more energy than running all around outside the zone. Did you think the author himself did not remember the drawbacks of the zone? Did you think Kagami's passive and conservative play in the 3rd quarter was coincidence? No, the author planned it. Playing a bit worse and getting nervous when you are under pressure is totally acceptable, but just to a certain degree. They have to be at least composed enough to play fairly normal. That doesn't apply to real life. Choking is real. "Have to be" doesn't mean will be. http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1sah06/kyrie_irving_had_zero_points_today_on_09_shooting/ (zero points for someone who can make double clutch layups look like free throws) http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2mcvhz/kobes_114_71_performance_was_the_worst_in_his/ (GOAT contender shot 1 for 14) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-off-was-stephen-curry--he-fired-an-airball--committed-a-turnover-in-final-seconds-of-overtime-064719161.html (missed 13 of 15 3-point attempts while having more turnovers (six) than assists (five). I know you are going to say that these are extreme examples but they do happen. And these are the GoMs of the NBA. For the uncrowned level players in the NBA, it probably happens far more frequently. Saying that a fantasy anime needs more consistency and "logic" than real life is just silly. And as I said earlier, the uncrowned were beaten by teamwork. Hyuga can't beat Mibuchi alone. Izuki can't beat Hayama alone. And even so, they were stopped a total of 4 times? They might've recovered quickly but Akashi didn't give them the opportunity to do so and gave up on them entirely (for a while). He implied that they were discarded like trash and he had no more hopes for them. If you believe that doesn't affect performance, you don't understand sports psychology. Anyone would have underpeformed under the circumstances, but they were hardly mentally resilient to begin with (Shutoku). 3. You obviously think players are in some kind of super human speed when they are in the zone. The difference in speeds is exaggerated in the anime. Look at how Kagami and Izuki caught up with Aomine when he stole the ball in the zone and was AHEAD of them. The internal logic in the fictional world of KnB must be that defenders gain a boost in speed when they try to catch up (just like the FIFA games). Look how Akashi caught up with Kagami. Remember how Kise caught up with Haizaki after getting stepped on. Or how Midorima caught up with Akashi (who was 0.5 sec away from making the layup) after his butt kissed the floor. Or maybe try not to think so much and just enjoy the show. My earlier points still stand. Low presence + coming from behind Kagami +  + mental shock at seeing Kuroko there = steal. And about Akashi seeing Kuroko's legs, I'd go into visual processing and inattentional blindness but I think there is enough pedantry (from both of us) for now. EDIT: ibear above explains it better than I do. Ok you are a fan, not a pointless hater, I get it. But you and your fellow complainers can't seem accept that sports is wildly unpredictable. Upsets, choking, players playing above their potential, collective collapse, 30 point comebacks and other unusual events all happen more frequently than you think. Being a star player in middle school neither guarantees a good performance nor mental strength (how many young stars rose to fame in high school but later their mental fragility are exposed in the NBA). You seem to think that if something has a low chance of happening and it happens, it's an asspull or a plot hole, or something to criticize the anime over, but all it does is reflect the psychology and unpredictability of team sports (it's not DBZ, where higher power level logically wins) where 1000 variables can affect the result. In fact, as I've painstakingly explained, the anime doesn't even stray that far from what is expected. And you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about how KnB doesn't adhere to real life physics and then claim that real life concepts don't apply to KnB because it is fiction. |
TorribleJun 15, 2015 9:27 PM
Torrible said: @Torrible 1. I am trying to prove the lack of an elaborated story. But you don't seem to understand and you are still making excuses. And no, you didn't prove a a) They did something, but not a lot. Kyoshis stats are way better than the stats of the other uncrowned kings except for Reo. But Reos stats are worse in comparsion to Hyuga if you include the time he was left out on the bench. I also already mentioned that Akashi and Mayuzumi were involved in 62 of 80 points minimum. b) The uncrowned kings were already useless and did nothing at all anymore long before Akashi imploded, hence he stopped relying on them in the first place. So much for having a good reason and Akashi spreading his unstability to his mates... It doesn't matter how many precedents there are to real life. I already said, it doesn't need match the logic of real life to be perfectly rational, it only needs to abide the internal logic of the fictional world the makers have build. I don't really watch NBA. Watching sports without the good content of a tale is boring to me. But the real life NBA doesn't really have anything to do with KnB anyway. So it's kinda pointless and wasted of you to despereately compare a shounen anime with real life. Just to make sure you understand. I don't particularly have anything against special abilitys like the zone as it is portrayed, Kises copying, Aoimines always hitting formless shots, Haizakis stealing techniques, Midorimas entire field domination or pre-form instant always hitting throw, Murasakibaras perfect guarding, Tatsuyas perfect transition and any other ability that has been or could have been introduced. The only ability that I really had problems with and needed the look another way to enjoy it was Kurokos invisibility. But I did look the other way and still rated it 10 in the beginning, because it was well executed and the overall quality was awesome. Any ability is acceptable as long it is elaborated and executed well and of course it has to abide the internal logic. I hope you do understand now. Why should the uncrowned kings only be able to do something if they get a pass? They can also steal, rebound or take it in a 1v1. They've the option to get away from their cover too. Mayuzumi and Akashi have the ability to instantly make a perfect pass, if the uncrowned kings are able to lose their cover. The situation in the Shutuko game was completely different. The've only been a bit nervous and a bit too eager, so they've lost a little of their composure, but they were still able to play quite normally (like I mentioned in my previous post). However, in the Seirin game they've lost ALL of their composure (for no reason) it went so far that they reached a futile state of disturbance. They've stopped thinking and doing anything at all. They've become totally useless. Furthermore, if you could define a person (or 4 persons at once) just from one really short monitoring that wasn't even that similar, it would make all of your arguments even more futile. Kuroko would have never been able to improve let alone score at all. Akashi would be cold hearted, unwavering and invincible. Kagami would have never accepted the friendship playstyle. Aomine would also be forever disinterested and invincible. There are a lot of other possibilitys, but it's pointless to talk about hypothetical prejudiced possibilitys. 2. So are you. But I am merely somewhat repeating myself, when you are still not understanding and contradict something I've already given an explanation to. a) Well, yeah that's one factor. b) Increased burn of energy just because you are in a higher state of concentration isn't really big. It's not even worth mentioning. The problem lies in the occurrence of stimuli transmissioned by nerves and the increased amount of stress you receive, because you've boosted the performance of your sensory perception. This strains various muscles and your sensory organs. Most stimuli is processed in your brain and if it's too much you naturally lose focus and wear yourself out mentally. Your glands also generate biochemical reactions within your body that further affects your state of mind. You example is really really lacking reason. Like I already mentioned, Kagami DIDN'T just stand there. Trying to claim it now with yet another excuse based on a lie is pathetic. You even disproved it yourself with your statistics. Kagami did by far the most and also the most straining (scoring and blocking) according to the statistics. Lets assume he didn't move much (which is just hypthetically, because he did move more than enough), just standing on the field with tensed muscles, sharpened senses observing every little movement, always being ready to have the best possible reaction time and frequently moving from offense to defense. This already drains a lot more stamina than SITTING and just thinking strategically. But him just standing there wasn't the case. My mentioned points apply and additionally he always changed sites of the court. The other players weren't conserving their energy so he had to move in their normal/fast pace. And on the ocassions, that were NOT so rare, contrariwise actually quite often (or he wouldn't top in the overall placement in the statistics and we also saw him in action many times). And on those not so rare occassions he didn't just do normal plays like a lay-up or a normal 2s, he did extreme plays that are already totally draining when you are not in the zone. Those plays usually contain really fast zone sprints and far/high jumps and every action is packed with a lot of strength. He uses a lot of explosive muscle power, which is really wearing. You don't seem to know much about the responses of your body to certain influences. I am a hobby natural bodybuilder, so don't try to act smart. I don't know everything in detail about all biochemical processes either, but I will try to explain in to you anyway. All burden to your muscles no matter how small strains them. Explosive and repetitive action especially strains them. Of course, high intensity interval training is a good method instead of just repetitively jogging/doing something else and it's more time efficient too, mostly because it's way more wearing so you also need a way longer recovery time. Lactic acid is produced at all time by your normal metabolism. If your normal energy supply that is produced with a reaction between your fat depots and oxygen is not enough anymore, because you are in dire need of more energy because of more action, your breathing and heart (increased heart rate) are not able to distribute enough oxygen to your body anymore. It all comes down to your heart rate in the first place. The accumulated lactic acid (which supplys you with energy without needing oxygen) and newly generated lactic acid generated from your body supplys you as long as your normal metabolism isn't fast/capable enough to fuel you with energy. If this keeps up for too long your muscles acidise and you suffer from certain troubles. If you keep this up for a longer time you can over-train your body and mess up your pH-value creating even more and worse troubles. To make it simple, it comes down to your heart rate and Kagamis actions are more than enough to create a really high heart rate. The question is not how much energy is used while playing chess or doing something else. It all comes down to comparing the insensity and energy distribution of just the momentary game and the zones before. He did improve his energy dispositon. He did improve is efficiency. But if you compare it to previous limit of just being able to last like 3min in zone while going all out then it's ridiculous. Kise was also able to dispose his energy effiency in zone really well. He also played together with his team. That lessens his energy usage. Kise was able to use his zone for like 5min and this split into two uses of the zone while taking a break on the bench and recovering while not doing anything. He also didn't finish the game so he had to last even shorter. Even IF Kagami is A LITTLE more efficient than Kise (which is not likely, because he is also kind of dense) and also moves A LITTLE less, he still shouldn't be able to last like 10 - 20 minutes in a DEEPER more draining zone like the others and actually improving to a impossible way way deeper zone and withouts breaks like Kise. The author probably did remeber a little of his conditions and drawbacks, but it seems that he didn't remember enough nor did he execute it well. He messed it up and didn't abide the logic of his own world. I don't really think that he's much a of planner. At least he isn't a good one. I already mentioned it. The NBA doesn't matter. But if those NBA players, who get paid millions and millions and millions and also are blessed with fame really are so unstable themselves, then they are really amateurish and don't deserve to get paid so much. There are a lot of professions where you can't afford to make mistakes and you also don't get away with it. Some show acts, extreme persons, surgeons, pilots or pyrotechnicians for example don't ever fail and they are under a lot more pressure, because their work is more complex and their or other peoples life depends on it. Seirin didn't beat the kings only with teamplay. They've lost 1v1s before. And I think you are the one who doesn't understand the psyche. You really think you are able to speak for everyone? I for example and nearly every person with a lot of pride, dignity, confidence and willpower would never yield to something like that. On the contrary. I would be pissed and get pretty damn mad. It would be even more reason for me to show that scum who really is superior. I would surpass Akashi and would try to improve myself even harder. 3. Yes I think that they possess superhuman speed and agility in the zone, because it got implemented multiple times in that way henceforth it is a fact and internal logic of the fictional world. I didn't read the manga. The manga and the anime are different works. You have to see and rate them separately. If the logic from the manga is applied in another way in the anime, then the other way becomes the animes logic. The anime doesn't just necessarily adopt the logic of the manga. If they did plan to adopt it, that it's the makers fault for failing and it becomes a flaw of the anime if contradiction appear in the anime based on their fault. Maybe it is like in FIFA and Mario Kart, I didn't pay attention to that, but that would be pretty weird. It rather has to be them losing a bit of speed because of the ball handling or because they slow down to gate more control or because they go zigzag to outplay a few players that way the ones behind can catch up a bit. And a superior person in zone catching up to an inferior person in zone or someone in zone catching up to someone who is not in the zone doesn't explain much. I would like to enjoy the show in the most possible way, but it's not possible for me to stop thinking and just let myself get shined on. The path it is taking and the raising of flaws lessens my enjoyment. I already explained how Akashis mentality should be, if they would abide by the worlds logic. And you can't compare Kises situation with Akashis. I watched the part where Kuroko stole the ball over and over again. Akashi didn't really outwit Kagami. He did plan a bit, but who doesn't. In the end it was just a simple left - right feint and Kagami lost in terms of speed and balance. Now the most deciding factor. His right feint was equal to his left. He went from left to right in a split second and he was in a position to either go back to the left just as fast as from left to rigbt (wouldn't do that because of Kagami), he was in a position to step back and reset it to the initial situation, he would have been able to just score, because Kagami was still off balance ( it was shown that he was off balance they even pointed his foot out) and Kuroko would have NEVER been able to stop a throw from Akashi, he would have been able to give himself a pass for a dunk against the board just like Kagami ( Akashi said he could dunk whenever he wants to) or he could just go past Kuroko further to right, there was enough of space to do so. Either way, Akashi was NOT off balance like Kise and he was standing on both of his feet (not just 1 like Kise) he als had the ball in a well controlable good spot. Kuroko didn't really predict anything, he just moved according to Kagami. Akashi and Kuroko got sight of each other in the same moment. Kuroko didn't start his motion in advance. He only started after being in line of sight of each other. Kuroko initiated with his weak left hand and a rather safe range between him and Akashi. Akashi being totally superior to Kuroko even without the zone and outmatching Kagamis speed (whos zone was deeper than ever before) like it was clearly shown, there is just no chance for Kuroko to steal the ball. It's IMPOSSIBLE. And yes, hence internal logic you get superhuman abilitys in the zone. There are multiple examples. The situation as it happened is just not possible. Indeed it is pretty fussy what we are doing here. There are always some surprises in life. You can not predict everything, but usually the favored team wins and that is predictable. There are occasional games where the underdogs win by a great margin, but that is rare. They didn't just do things with a chance, they combined irrational, boring and obvious things that should partly be impossible and not just unlikely. Although they did impossible (abided by internal logic) things it was still totally predictable. Even if something seemingly impossible does happen in real life, like for example a grade schooler hitting the pitch of a major leaguer by chance, that doesn't particularly mean that it's the right thing to do that in a story. Assuming that it benefits the story to mess up A LOT of things just to forcibly creat the standard overused obvious "friendship-bright hero-protagonist-person named after anime wins" scenario is just naive, because it does not benefit the story. Btw I never said that I want to have it both ways. I also didn't complain that it doesn't match real life physics. The internal logic doesn't depend on our logic. I mentioned it multiple times. The only things I partly transfer from real life to anime are the characters emotions, personality and stuff regarding that matter. Of course it's okay to make them more instering and appealing and to give them some traits a normal or even an odd person doesn't have in real life. |
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| Nice to see Akashi get put down on his ass. Kagami shut him down. |
| YO. |
shonenking said: -snip- 1. I think we just cannot come to a common agreement about this and also in general. You seem to nitpick at specific things I said without considering the wider point I'm making. When you said that the uncrowned kings shouldn't lose their composure, what do you based your claim on? At least I'm basing my arguments on the Shutoku match and actual NBA scenarios. KnB is an exaggeration of real life bball after all so the NBA comparison is apt. You said it yourself, these are highly paid professionals. If a godly talented and highly experienced player known for his clutchness like Kobe can lose composure and choke for the entire match to the point of making only 1 out of 14 shot attempts, what gives you the temerity to claim that high school students in a fantasy anime wouldn't ever lose their composure for a few minutes? Another example: JR Smith, an uncrowned level NBA player, has choked (apart for one good quarter) for 5 matches straight in the current NBA finals. Again, the uncrowned kings (UK) didn't completely lose their composure (even if doing so is still realistic). They were stopped a few times and then Akashi decided to give up on them and play hero ball. If the ball handler doesn't give you the ball, what can you do in offense? In defense, sure, they could have done something, but then again, the momentum was with Seirin. Their attacks were fast breaks due to Akashi losing the ball. Very little the UKs could do. You saw how Hayama, the fastest UK came back in vain. Seirin rode on their momentum and Akashi's breakdown and their plays were perfect. That's not to mention the disarray spreading through Rakuzan and the added emotional strain being treated like dirt by Akashi. You will underestimate the emotional aspects of team sports I know, but these are just high school students. If you follow team sports, you'd know that team spirit is a fragile thing and just a minor tiff or even speculation about a player leaving the team can lead to disharmony and can have adverse effects on not just the team's performance as a whole, but individual performances as well.That's why all professional and elite sports teams regularly have bonding sessions, motivational speeches by coaches/captains, and an army of sports psychologists on standby. 2. Geez, of course I know Kagami wasn't standing still the whole time. I'm comparing a hectic quarter of him outside the zone and a quarter of him being passive in defense and being conservative in offense. I assumed you read my earlier post (which I acknowledged that he did get involved in the team's plays) when you responded to me. And he is playing harder in the 4th quarter which means his stamina should start depleting quickly, but the entire 3rd quarter was just chill mode (though the zone made it a little less chill). Against Shutoku in S1, he went all out as a one-man offense and defense, making super jumps and sprints to block Midorima as well as making dunks with huge hang times. Now compare that to his plays in the 3rd quarter against Rakuzan. In defense, he just stood away from Akashi and occasionally blocked Mayuzumi. In offense, it was simple layups, mid range jump shots and alley oop dunks. No super jumps. No one-on-ones. No fast speed drives. Now tell me that stress from increased sensory stimuli and increased brain activity etc., can make up for the difference between those 2 quarters. At least you didn't claim that a magical portal was sucking away his stamina, but that sensory organs thing is just clutching at straws. You also missed my point about the lactic acid. Yes, I know cellular respiration itself produces lactic acid as well. But it's produced more during anaerobic (fast and hectic) activity than aerobic (slower and even-paced) activity. My point is, fatigue is not just caused by caloric output. Muscle fatigue is caused by the accumulation of lactic acid caused by energetic plays. If you go all out, you are not just expending more energy, but also accumulating lactic acid and strain in your muscles. A) If you are sprinting at full speed for a minute and then resting for 30 seconds, and repeat, you'll probably be spent after 30 minutes tops. B) But if you are jogging at a manageable pace, you can go on for hours if you are fit enough. Are you to tell me that 30 minutes of B in deeper zone is more exhausting than 30 minutes of A outside the zone? It's an extreme example, yes, and the difference between the 2 quarters is definitely smaller than that, but it is to make a point. Also, saying that Kise (who wasn't in the zone btw) uses energy more efficiently than Kagami is just being disingenuous. He was a one man wrecking crew in offense and defense while in Perfect Copy, combining all the GoM moves that are incredibly strenuous on their own, let alone repeatedly chained together in quick succession play after play. Making a few passes (ignite pass kai and cyclone pass aren't so chill either) to his teammates doesn't negate all that. 3. We simply cannot agree here. Dribbling is slower than running, all things being equal. But if Izuki could catch up with a dribbling Aomine who was in the zone, I don't see how superhuman zone speed is. I'll finally add that reactions are informed by expectations. Akashi's (how can you tell he was still on 2 feet when Kuroko reached for him?) reactions were slower simply because he didn't expect Kuroko. Trying jump-scaring someone and then slowly touch them in the head. See how fast they react compared to coming straight at them. Add that to Kuroko appearing at the very last second (you can't judge based on extreme slow-mo in the anime), him being adept at steals, and Akashi's subsequent shock, and it's really not that unreasonable a scenario. This is how the average person sees the scene (I'm also basing it on hundreds of comments on various sites--complaints were extremely rare): https://youtu.be/OuNv2C1Tw9E?t=562 (Watch for another 10 seconds after the video plays) Btw, Co-Casuals were critical of the season earlier so they weren't looking at it through fanboy lenses. They didn't just do things with a chance, they combined irrational, boring and obvious things that should partly be impossible and not just unlikely. Nope. Most of them can be explained and no established rules in the universe has been violated. It's just that we are in complete disagreement about what is impossible and what is reasonable. If anything, what Rakuzan is about to accomplish stretches believability more than anything Seirin has done or will do. |
TorribleJun 16, 2015 9:44 AM
| Kagami is in the zone way too long imo. It should have run out by now. Instead he reaches lvl 2 soon, I think :o Kuroko Emperor Eye <3 |
Torrible said: ------- 1. Yeah, we don't come to an agreement. I am also not nit-picking. The things I complain about are major flaws that lessen the quality immensely. And I am considering your "wider point" of view. It's just , that your "wider point" consist out of pity irrational excuses you come up with and you are also mostly ignoring my explanations. My claim in relation to the reaction of the uncrowned kings is based on my knowledge of human behavior, my perfect insight and tremendous experience regarding storys/tales. I already mentioned the following in my last post: "The only things I partly transfer from real life to anime are the characters emotions, personality and stuff regarding that matter. Of course it's okay to make them more interesting and appealing and to give them some traits a normal or even an odd person doesn't have in real life." I already rebutted your argument concerning Shutoku and the NBA. Kuroko no Basket isn't just exaggerated it went so far that it's supernatural and fantasy (you even admitted yourself that it is fantasy). Yes I said that they're highly paid and should be professionals, but if they are so unstable they are nothing more than amateurish, I already made that clear. I also mentioned a few examples who can't afford to collapse no matter what, although they are under way more pressure. I also know from my personal (and observed,read, reasoned)competitive experience with parlour games, sports, endurance tests and highrated pro esports how easy it is to maintain a good performance if you look down on whoever, remain calm and composed and if you have a lot of determination/will power, pride and dignity. Of course it is possible for pathetic persons without much determination to lose all of their composure, but if you consider (I already explained that....) the information you have about the kings and expand it a bit (they would be aces without GOM, would dominate all tourneys without GOM, they would be first choice future professional players and still are 2nd choice future professionals, they kept seriously playing and training no matter how often they lost against GOM, means they've determination/will power and pride. They've all been the best at some point, they maybe did lose some confidence when the GOM appeared, they are still determined and trying and won't yield to the GOM) then it's obvious what kind of persons they are and that it's not fallacious, but on point what I am trying to explain to you. Yes, "again" is the right word. You are repeating yourself. I just explained my previous post how it went down and disproved all of your excuses. They already collapsed long before Akashi did and they've enough possibiltys to carry the game. I also explained how a highly determined prideful person behaves. I don't plan to further repeat myself, just because you don't get it. Btw there wasn't anything "perfect" going on. The only thing that was going on was contradicting absurd stuff full of flaws. I don't underestimate anything. You just don't really understand the composition of storytelling nor the human psyche and behavior of different entities. The age doesn't particularly matter. It's just a number of time you've spent on earth. Sure, it gives you more time to acquire information and experience, but the intensity of wisdom, intelligence, information, grasp and personality does not inevitable coherent. Being in your high school years is enough to have a fully developed personality. You really think everyone is so labile and fragile to crumble from every little think. Determined and skilled persons keep carrying , no matter how awful their team mates are or how much they restrain them. I am speaking from personal experience and also from the immense amount of information I observed. And talking about deep comradeship in a professional world is pretty damn naive. It's their JOB. They are obligated to provide a good performance and to WIN not just to play, they are also supposed to play for the amusement of the paying customer/spectator and not just for themselves. Regular player changes are totally normal and you still have to properly function at all times. It is a world of money and selling and buying players is a part of it, It's not a place of friendship. I already explained and compared the proper logic of the various zone events that took place in detail. I am not repeating myself. Energy consumption and strain on the body again, we are moving in a circle. I didn't say that fatigue is solely caused by the amount of energy you burn. I just explained different parts on how the body functions. A-B-C) Have you done high intensity interval training before? Just holding out for 30min is really really tiring. You probably won't be able to keep the initial performance up. It's way more exhausting than normal excercising at a manageable pace. So of course A is more exhausting than B, even if you spent way more time exercising with B. But there always is C) Going all out or at least in a high pace for a longer time or until you are worn out. C is the most tiring and the least efficient. It also isn't a good exercise. What Kagami did so far was C. That's why his zones were less efficient before. He also did start with C in the Rakuzan game, but quickly went for an irregular A. Outside of his zone he most likely switched between A and a borderline B. Ah my fault. I somehow mistook Kises perfect copy for the zone. But it's kinda matchable with the terms of the zone, so my previous arguments related to Kise remain. And the previous zone events stay the same and are still enough to disprove the rationality of the final game. Also I never said that said Kise uses energy more efficiently than Kagami. On the contrary, I established a hypothetical scenario where Kagami is more efficient than Kise without fail. I did say that Kises learned to distribute his energy efficiently, so did Kagami, but I never said that someone could do it better than the other. So much for being disingenuous. I also already explained Kises fatigue and compared it to Kagamis. You can tell from Akashi form and the way he stood that he wasn't standing on one feet. Both steps from right to left and from left to right were identical. He moved from right to left and from left to right in a split second and remained perfect balance at all time. because it was identical the same fast controled balanced movement has to apply for when he face Kuroko, but he just kept standing there what is not like him (flaw). He might didn't expect Kuroko to stand before him, but that too is a flaw, I already explained that in a previous post. It was forcibly implemented with his inner voice just before Kuroko stole the ball. But before he started the feint it was also implemented with his inner voice that he will be ready for anything and that he was aware of Kuroko and their positioning. Your comparisons are pointless. I already explained that Akashi was aware of things behind of him or in another blind spot before, but that wasn't even the case here. Akashi perfectly predicted and planned complex scenarios ahead. They depended on many unknown factors and multiple persons. The possibiltys of Kuroko and Kagami were totally simple even for a dense person, not to mention for a genius like him. Where could Kuroko possibly appear, it's 50:50 for left or right. Another choice would be to step back or just keep standing behind Kagami. But in the end it comes down to 50:50 to at least have a "chance" of making something happen at all, but it would have been 0% in this situtation and with applied designs. I explained this too, but Akashi was aware of Kurokos presence and Kuroko didn't start his motion beforehand. Just with real time action alone it is impossible for Kuroko to match up to Akashi. And you can tell, I watched it multiple times and checked on it before you even mentioned it. All 3 characters movement speed compared with the initial speed. Kuroko was often made a foul of. He personally is not really effective against GOM members and his pity tricks and surprises are even less likely if you are in the zone. Not just because of your increased physical stats, but your strongly enhanced focus and perception (also strongly increases reaction time, although Kuroko does not have any chance against the initial reaction time and like I said they set sight on each other at the same moment). Calling them average isn't really polite, but I guess you are right. The majority, the average person isn't really a good ideal and something to be proud of if you do agree with them. Prejudiced mostly correct sterotypes are based on this very majority. The majority is nothing more than a desultory, disoriented, thoughtless mob. I've only seen about 1-2 minutes of the video. I haven't seen enough to totally judge them yet and I don't plan to do so. They may be false blithe yes-man or they truly enjoyed the episode. I don't care. The conclusion is, that they and the allegedly other hundred people lack insight and understanding. If your claim is true and Rakuzan are about to do the most irrational thing that has happened so far, how could Seirin possibly beat them without even topping that.... Well I don't assume that the quality will go up again, rather the opposite. There are still 2 more episode to ruin it even further. |
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| I don't want to drag this out anymore (you are right, we are going in circles because we can't see eye to eye) so this will be my last post on this debate. KnB has a fantasy setting but it's not supernatural (like PoT). It's abilities and moves are exaggerations of what can be achieved in real life and more or less grounded in reality (the emotional/psychological aspects even more so) so reasonable comparisons can be made with real life. My post regarding this: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1360457#msg38611417 All you said about professionalism and mental strength is true (players at the highest level have the most ice in their veins) but missing the point. I never said that players (be it high school or pro) should crumble from every little thing. I said they can. Given the right conditions, it can (occasionally, or 6! games in a row like JR Smith) happen and it has happened irl. It has happened in KnB too. Kyuga, known for his clutchness, missed most of his shots against Kirisaki Daiichi, that was evidence that in that universe, good players (Hyuga has limited skills, but his shooting is top tier) can crumble under pressure or overwhelming emotions. It doesn't mean they are weak (although obviously some can be). It means they are human. Of course, Akashi is another prime example. The reverse is obviously true (the much but unfairly maligned "friendship powerups") too. If the UKs can't even underperform for a few minutes (given all the factors I've already listed) in a one-off high-stakes finals game facing the pressure from Seirin chasing them like they have never been chased before, let's just say you have impossibly high standards for them. Shifts in momentum (talked about a lot in KnB) wouldn't be a thing if team/player performances don't fluctuate over the course of the game. And as stated earlier, their composure didn't matter because it's not even their fault that they can't do anything (apart from one measly shot by Mibuchi that came from a bad pass) during Seirin's 12 point comeback. Akashi was hero-balling and making multiple turnovers, leading to Seirin counters. I used HIIT and marathon running as extreme examples to more colorfully illustrate my point. Btw, I should have compared A to (B + all the sensory and cognitive exertions). Yeah, I know how tough HIIT is, that's why I picked it as the first example. Even 15 mins of that is torturous to me. Yeah, Kagami did start out with C, but he was conspicuously passive for most of the 2nd quarter when Seirin was being destroyed, even losing to Hayama. Funny how no one argued as passionately as you did about how Kagami should have done more, shouldn't be beaten by Hayama, etc. If you just look at defense alone, tracking and chasing a player like Aomine all over the court while jumping at every shot he makes, is definitely much more strenuous and intense than passively marking Akashi from a distance in the zone. If he were outside the zone, and played like how he did in the second and third quarters (against Rakuzan) the whole match, he could probably last 6 quarters or even more. Ultimately, I still maintain that it's not reasonable to assume that sensory and cognitive stress can make up for the difference in fatigue between 2 activities that put very different amounts of physical stress on the body. You made a good point about the zone giving greater awareness about other players on the court. But Kagami had a mental lapse against Akashi (who escaped his defensive zone and shot a 3 pointer), showing that the concentration and awareness aren't perfect in the zone and lapses can happen. You are wrong about that 50:50 thing with which way Kuroko will move. Of course if Akashi expects Kuroko to keep up with him, not only will he take note of Kuroko's movement (looking at the legs like you said earlier), but be mentally prepared to ankle break him when he comes. BUT, in Akashi's mind, Kuroko cannot predict Kagami or his movements. By the time Kuroko reacts to his movement, it'd be too late. The 0.67s of reaction time needed would have been enough for Akashi to take a shot at the basket. However, Kuroko was able to keep up because he predicted Kagami's movement. iBear already explained this. But to repeat, the sequence goes like this: 1) Akashi made it obvious that he is moving right (it's all in his plan to trick Kagami) 2) Kagami prepares to move right 3) Kuroko read several steps ahead (knowing Kagami is preparing to move right because Akashi wants him to) and moves left (edit: he didn't start moving left right away but planned it such that his timing is perfect) 4) Akashi moves right 5) Kagami follows 6) Akashi crosses to the left just as Kagami plants his feet, but guess who's already there? "Average" wasn't meant to be a demeaning label. I wasn't making a statement about intelligence. Average meant not being prone to scrutinizing or over-analyzing small details. Maybe casual is a better word, and being casual has nothing to do with intelligence too. I'm sure many casual fans would be able to analyze and critique intelligently if they have the time, motivation or see the need to do so. The majority is nothing more than a desultory, disoriented, thoughtless mob. Wow, just wow. Snobbery and illusion of superiority much? I was just having a modicum of respect for you until I read that. If your claim is true and Rakuzan are about to do the most irrational thing that has happened so far, how could Seirin possibly beat them without even topping that.... It's not irrational. It's possible. It's just harder to believe than all the other stuff that has happened. Like flipping heads many times in a row. Meanwhile, GG Cavaliers. Congrats to the new NBA champs GSW. |
TorribleJun 16, 2015 11:05 PM
Aoiyuki7 said: Mormegil said: But how did his eyes change color? He is possessed by an evil spirit. Okay. That's what I thought. Thank you. |
Torrible said: It is becoming more and more clear that you are just desperately trying to fanboyishly defend Kuroko no Basket. You use the same arguments over and over again, even if they are already perfectly countert or disproven. You don't seem simplistic and you probably are a nice guy, but your pov is kinda messed up and you should really think everything through one more time and ask yourself if you are partisan to KnB. I for example am objectively nonpartisan. There are of course characters, that I think are cooler than other ones, but the only thing I am rooting for is the best possible flawless story. And if they fail to do it, I'll have to accept and admit it instead of trying to sugarcoat it. I will admit it even if I don't really want to, because once I admit it, it will become the harsh reality for me, that one more of my favorite animes was ruined. Death Note is a prime example. tsudecimo gets it. He is way more rational and honest and doesn't cling to the silly idea that it's impossible for KnB to not be as good anymore or to not have flaws. Don't get me wrong. We all love/loved KnB and want it to be great, but you just have to accept it, if it isn't. And you just admitted it. You are saying that it's impossible for Furihata to dunk from the free throw line. I could just be like you and say that it could be possible for him, he could have the potential, because he has a body after all and that's all you need. But I would just lie to myself and be irrational. He was implemented as a noob/lower than normal, a person that is not capable to do something like that. And the same applys for Kuroko. He was implemented as a poor frail slow person. You could even say that Kuroko is a bigger noob than Furihata in terms of skill. He just exceeds at passing. I am ok with the kings having yips or lacking concentration, but it was way more than that and also not well implemented. Also just because something has happened in real life before, doesn't mean that it's justified to implemend it nor does it automatically make a good story. Nearly everything has already happened countless times in real life. Does it mean that you have to implement everything to make it a good story? No. The complexity of storytelling goes way deeper. Diamond of Ace and Major for example have done better in handling unstable characters with yips or shaken determination. It was implemented in a proper way, although Diamond no Ace was a bit annoying and could've been done in a more interesting way without prolongating it for so long. I already explained all that, you are just ignoring all the input I've already given. Btw, Seirin was ahead in the beginning and Kagami instantly landed the first meteor jam vs Akashi. Also a little later Akashis shot missed because of Kagami and Nebuya had to make it. Those also were "losses". But he remained perfectly calm and it did not affect his composure at all. Akashi also planned ahead to make one of Kagamis metor jams miss, just by making fractionally influence his form. Kagami did not have a mental lapse and also wasn't in the zone when Akashi threw a 3 pointer. Also standing on max range an comparing two person with a much lesser skill difference and the superior person coming out on top does not help you to make a point and isn't in the least comparable to Kurokos situation. There you go again. Yes it is 50:50 and the other choices would create a completely new encounter. I already explained the previous applied rules, the different options and the difference in real time action and much complexer planning. The sequence isn't complex. There is no need to explain it in detail and from 3 different pov's and make it seem complex. There is absolutely no rational way for the events to take place like they did. No matter how often you try to make excuses, it is not possible. The makers failed. 1. How was it obvious? He moved in the blink of an eye. Completely leaving Kagami behind. He could have simply broken through the left by overpowering Kagami like he previously EASILY did. He also had the option to do a double, tripple, quadruple feint and also the option to simply step back and throw a 3 pointer and also the option to use some totally different complex or irregular attack pattern. Those are all completely rational and easily achievable possibilitys. 2. Yes he did, so what. 3.Several steps ahead? You kidding me? it was simply right-left. Stop making it sound complex. And Kuroko didn't really read ahead he also didn't plan timing, the only plan he had was to observe Kagami and move in the opposite direction to expand the physical barrier and to have a 50:50 chance to be on the right side. He simply watched Kagami and moved in the opposite direction as he saw Kagami moving. Let's say Kuroko is good because he started to move in the opposite direction not when he started to see Kagami move, but when he saw Kagamis first impulse to move. It's clear that Kagami is TOTALLY overpowering Kurokos speed not just in the zone, but outside of it too. Yet, Akashis speed was way superior to Kagamis in that and the previous situations since Akashi entered the zone. It was also really really often shown, that Kuroko is the slowest and weakest with the fewest stamina. Even if he starts to move right away after seeing the first impulse of Kagami he still shouldn't make it. And even if he did, I already explained their difference in terms of everything. I too explained Akashis mindset and the fact that Kuroko did not start his stealing motion beforehand. The conclusion is that Kurukos and Akashis encounter is nothing more than a 1on1 on "equal" terms with rationally no chance of winning for Kuroko. 4. Yes he did, so what. 5. No, he didn't. He was completely left behind with no indication of him going after Akashi, because he was way to slow, off balance and completely stuck. 6. No he doesn't cross. After he went back to right he was in a perfectly balanced stance, you could say that it was his inital form. It was identical to the form he had before he even started his feint. The sliding was more of a visual effect. Casual isn't really a better term. Casuals are the vast majority and are seen as persons who aren't experts, but laymen. They're lacking insight, passion, knowledge, experience, skill, and/or certain other things. They mostly also don't invest a lot of time and effort. Well, being a casual is not entirely a bad thing, well it is, but everyone is a casual in some fields, you can't be an expert in everything. |
TyrelJun 21, 2015 6:56 AM
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| Hmm this episode justified Akashi's character to a good extent. I think he is okay now, don't dislike him anymore. And I get now why he is so popular, it's understandable. |
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SovereignSky said: ^I don't want to get into the middle of the debate here but you should NEVER apply logic to an anime. Also, what ruined Death Note (one of my fav series). If you want I can also PM you what Akashi does (which is complete BS and defies all logic) Yeah I know. The concept of logic was explained in a previous post. It doesn't need to apply real life logic, but it needs to abide the internal implemented set logic of the fictional world. Death Note I already heard some things about the next match and Akashi. It's sad, I don't want it to get even worse. |
shonenkingJun 17, 2015 1:40 PM
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| Seriously... for all of you who take this anime (and any other anime) so serious, criticize this thing and that thing, complaining this thing and that thing, and debating till your neck off. Why don't you just watch and shut up? If you love it, keep watching. If you hate it, just drop it. Anime is not the only thing in your life. *sigh* Just my rant... |
kazetora said: Most users here have been following the series since season 1 and want to see how it ends. However, the amount of BS shoved in our throats this season is a lot to handle for some of us. Sorry for having an opinion that goes against yours. Next thing you know Kagami in zone 2 will grow wings and fly from one end of the court to the other scoring 20 points in 2 minutes.Seriously... for all of you who take this anime (and any other anime) so serious, criticize this thing and that thing, complaining this thing and that thing, and debating till your neck off. Why don't you just watch and shut up? If you love it, keep watching. If you hate it, just drop it. Anime is not the only thing in your life. *sigh* Just my rant... |
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| Whatever really, I stopped taking that seriously KnB a long time ago, but it has been coherent so far so I won't really complain about asspulls here and there, I'm fully enjoying this last match and let me say this, it's a hell of a match, the directions behind the animations followed by the music are just perfect and the funny thing is that it's not even the BD. What I liked the most of the episode is that Kuroko and Kagami's combo was perfectly coherent with their character and their story till now, I mean it was possible because it was them and only them, enough believable I'd say. Therefore, it's a well constructed power-up. And if they are going to pull off more power-ups which is kinda obvious, that's fine as long they remain coherent with their intentions. That's the important thing for me. |
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Sourire said: kazetora said: Most users here have been following the series since season 1 and want to see how it ends. However, the amount of BS shoved in our throats this season is a lot to handle for some of us. Sorry for having an opinion that goes against yours. Next thing you know Kagami in zone 2 will grow wings and fly from one end of the court to the other scoring 20 points in 2 minutes.Seriously... for all of you who take this anime (and any other anime) so serious, criticize this thing and that thing, complaining this thing and that thing, and debating till your neck off. Why don't you just watch and shut up? If you love it, keep watching. If you hate it, just drop it. Anime is not the only thing in your life. *sigh* Just my rant... Sorry but this "BS" you speak of is non-existent. Don't call Zone 2 BS because you couldn't pay attention when Aomine was explaining it. LOL. |
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| I'm amazed with how well they've tackled this episode. I admit that I was a little skeptical at the start, because it dealt with a lot of internal monologue, but I think Akashi's seiyuu (along with some SFX) did a wonderful job of defining the two Akashi personalities. I think this game showed quite a few memorable gameplay animations. As both a viewer and manga reader, I think the anime tackled the flow of the game better. The visuals are breathtaking.... but seeing Akashi breakdown was a little tough to handle! I hope the reason why they cut back the number of episodes from 26 to 25 is because they plan to release a couple of OVAs like they did for season 1 and 2.... if not tackle a movie of some sort using the material after the Akashi game. I'm so pumped for the next two episodes!! |
Furtive_Pygmy said: Dear Lord, Torrible. Why did you even reply to that shounenking kid? It was obvious that he was trolling, or a fool to be avoided. Those that aren't completely wacko like Sourire are fine, but you should have just let him fester in irrelevancy. He has nothing better to do with his time and would have just argued with someone else over some stupid shit on another thread. Yeah, it was obviously a mistake to even respond to him. Should have taken it to private at the very least. |
| So Akashi has Schizophrenia? and I was under the impression that Akashi has Heterochromia, but it just disappeared with his alter ego? weird. I don't really like, what is happening to the zone, not just for the inconsistent explanations to it, and how they treat it, like trigger mode. But I especially dislike how those in the zone, talk normally/a lot during it, one of the great things about Kagami vs Aomine, was the body language and facial expression Kagami had, when he first entered the zone. I get goosebumps just thinking about it, how his face was so focused, and completely immersed, talking and having a normal face expression, ruins that effect for me. |
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tsudecimo said: So Akashi has Schizophrenia? nah Schizophrenia is different with Split Personality - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder |
| Relax, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. There is no truth in quality. |
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| I've read few spoilers about Akashi's childhood. But I never thought he was this vunerable. I feel so bad about him T___T gdi the animation was quite awesome btw |
eijemJun 21, 2015 2:52 AM
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| Less baiting with your posts, please. |
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| Wow the part where Akashi talks to his other self was actually really nice. So now the actual Akashi is finally out once again. I have to say, I'm actually quite impressed with what was done to his character. I didn't expect much before and disliked Akashi since he first appeared, but I can appreciate him more now at least. |
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| HYAKUNEN HAYAI! |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| Wow that was epic. Although I was surprised Akashi performced so well. Murasakibara beat him easily in his 'true' form, but he passed Kagami while he was in zone. I guess it was the surprise of the change in Akashi that allowed him to pass, but even so.. And then he stops him at the end, although he is in his own zone too at this point, Kagami is worn out too I guess. But so sad this is nearly over now. |
"When everyone else is about to give up, the fighter who becomes the role model, is the true Leader."  |
| Dayum, that was really powerful. I'm impressed :) Kagami-Kuroko combo was amazing and Akashi's backstory so touching. I feel Akashi so much now. I think he needs a hug more than anyone else. |
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| Oh my gosh Akashi's backstory though. He sure does have a lot going on with his characters. I'm really impressed tbh that he can switch his personas like that. I'm excited to see how this change is going to impact the rest of the game in the next episode. |
| The Akashi monologue in his head was amazingly well done |
| Woa, Akachin is going to his third phase now It was nice to see Kuroko and Kagami play to force him into this state |
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