Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Zoku Episode 11 Discussion

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bobzanny said:

Takuan_Soho said:

Though, to be frank, I would rather have a yandare ending than a milquetoast ending to this series. Granted everyone needs to experience more life before making any permanent decisions, but this show isn't reality, and of all stories, this one needs to have the MC make up his mind. An open ending would diminish Hachiman, and that is not acceptable.

How about an ending where he gets with no one definitively? That's well within his character.

Yeah, that's good. Yandere ending is not bad either. At least, I want too see 8man changes his personality. However, it doesn't mean that he must to choose who he wants to hook up.

Jun 11, 2015 7:20 PM

#55

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Takuan_Soho said:

bobzanny said:
How about an ending where he gets with no one definitively? That's well within his character.

But that sort of is the problem. I can accept a "no one" decision in most other stories, but the entire premise of this series is Hachiman's refusal to to even try to have a relationship. To end this series without his wanting to change, and change in a positive way, negates the story.

I want to stress that I really don't care who he ships. Hell, even Hayato would be fine with me. But aesthetically, this is the one series that demands a resolution. To not provide one would, frankly, suck.

+1

That would truly show the growth of his character.

Jun 11, 2015 7:21 PM

#56

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GrandTemplar said:

Bluforce said:

Fair enough, I was just thinking hypothetically. You're definitely right though.

Btw was that last line hinting at yandere Yui?

No, she's a nice girl. She will support Yukino and 8man, even it's awkward, she has a decent social skills.

I was just making a joke btw :p

Jun 11, 2015 7:22 PM

#57

loli_a_ravioli

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Takuan_Soho said:

bobzanny said:
How about an ending where he gets with no one definitively? That's well within his character.

But that sort of is the problem. I can accept a "no one" decision in most other stories, but the entire premise of this series is Hachiman's refusal to to even try to have a relationship. To end this series without his wanting to change, and change in a positive way, negates the story.

I want to stress that I really don't care who he ships. Hell, even Hayato would be fine with me. But aesthetically, this is the one series that demands a resolution. To not provide one would, frankly, suck.

But the context of relationship doesn't always have to be a romantic one. What Hachiman fear in the first place wasn't only a romantic relationship, but social relationship in general. His genuine speech clearly shows this.

At least that's how i interpret him

Jun 11, 2015 7:22 PM

#58

Takuan_Soho

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Bluforce said:
That would truly show the growth of his character.

Writing ultimately is a verb. I leave it up to the writer to imagine which verb, but ultimately I demand the verb!

Jun 11, 2015 7:27 PM

#59

coffeetenshi

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Since the premise of the title is for romance to be born out of a situation where one did not expect in a linear fashion, to conclude the series Hachiman will be with someone I would imagine.

Jun 11, 2015 7:29 PM

#60

Takuan_Soho

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LordBanana said:
But the context of relationship doesn't always have to be a romantic one. What Hachiman fear in the first place wasn't only a romantic relationship, but social relationship in general. His genuine speech clearly shows this.

At least that's how i interpret him

I will have to disagree. From the first episode where they showed Hachiman being rejected in asking someone out, this show has made it clear that it is specifically being denied romantically that is the driver (and the title of this series confirms this).

I know I may sound like a nitpicker or even an idiot, but I do need to stress that I am fine with ambiguous endings in 99.9% of stories. But this one is the exception. The writer decided to make ambiguous the theme of the series, which is cool, it is what makes this story interesting, however the price is that he has to give us a resolution. To not provide one, for this story, will invalidate the story.

Jun 11, 2015 7:45 PM

#61

ColtBuntline

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Just saying but... Totsuka looks like a queer when he's running, it's painful to watch.

“Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.”
― Saint Augustine

Jun 11, 2015 7:51 PM

#62

shanimebib

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This episode made me really happy for Yukino yet my heart broke for Yui. I like both of them so much that I always thought I would be happy for one of them and I would equally be sad for the other if we were to reach a definite ending. But, this episode really hit me hard despite all the emotional preparation.

I loved every second Yukino and Hachiman spent in the infirmary. Yet that split second expression of Yui made me incredibly sad, knowing that she did so much to make Hachiman notice her feelings, her every action screamed "I Love You! Please notice!". If she could only say those words, would Hachiman accept her feelings? We will probably never know. And now through a chain of events, it looks like she is on the verge of losing him to her best friend. If I don't feel anything about Yui, that will also mean I refuse to accept her existence as one of the most adorable characters ever in anime.

This is not White Album 2 damnit. T_T

shanimebibJun 11, 2015 7:57 PM

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Jun 11, 2015 8:31 PM

#63

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LordBanana said:

Takuan_Soho said:

But that sort of is the problem. I can accept a "no one" decision in most other stories, but the entire premise of this series is Hachiman's refusal to to even try to have a relationship. To end this series without his wanting to change, and change in a positive way, negates the story.

I want to stress that I really don't care who he ships. Hell, even Hayato would be fine with me. But aesthetically, this is the one series that demands a resolution. To not provide one would, frankly, suck.

But the context of relationship doesn't always have to be a romantic one. What Hachiman fear in the first place wasn't only a romantic relationship, but social relationship in general. His genuine speech clearly shows this.

At least that's how i interpret him

Exactly. Let's remember the first episode of S1. Hiratsuka gives Yukinon the request of making Hachiman more socially acceptable-paraphrasing. It's that Hachiman has to end in a relationship it's so that he can have bonds with other humans and not be so cynical.
From my perspective, this story has romance but it's not about romance, it's about adapting to society and accepting oneself to come out of their own shell.

Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime?

Jun 11, 2015 8:34 PM

#64

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Takuan_Soho said:

LordBanana said:
But the context of relationship doesn't always have to be a romantic one. What Hachiman fear in the first place wasn't only a romantic relationship, but social relationship in general. His genuine speech clearly shows this.

At least that's how i interpret him

I will have to disagree. From the first episode where they showed Hachiman being rejected in asking someone out, this show has made it clear that it is specifically being denied romantically that is the driver (and the title of this series confirms this).

I know I may sound like a nitpicker or even an idiot, but I do need to stress that I am fine with ambiguous endings in 99.9% of stories. But this one is the exception. The writer decided to make ambiguous the theme of the series, which is cool, it is what makes this story interesting, however the price is that he has to give us a resolution. To not provide one, for this story, will invalidate the story.

Well it's hinted in S2 and said in the LN that Hachiman only wanted the bonds that come from the relationship not the romance and that he most likely never truly liked someone which Hayato says that he's in the same boat.

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Jun 11, 2015 9:00 PM

#65

Erika___

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What the hell.. Miura was supposed to hit Yukinoshita and then got owned! Rushed.. Omg.

But the infirmary scene saves the day. Yukinoshita in the lead!! Em so happy. But yui </3 i feel bad for her.. She's such a nice girl too.

Jun 11, 2015 9:28 PM

#66

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bobzanny said:

LordBanana said:

But the context of relationship doesn't always have to be a romantic one. What Hachiman fear in the first place wasn't only a romantic relationship, but social relationship in general. His genuine speech clearly shows this.

At least that's how i interpret him

Exactly. Let's remember the first episode of S1. Hiratsuka gives Yukinon the request of making Hachiman more socially acceptable-paraphrasing. It's that Hachiman has to end in a relationship it's so that he can have bonds with other humans and not be so cynical.
From my perspective, this story has romance but it's not about romance, it's about adapting to society and accepting oneself to come out of their own shell.

While you are certainly correct about the story focusing on the development of Yukino and 8man as people rather than romance, I feel that it would be even more fitting for 8man to discover that he can indeed have something he never thought possible: a genuine romantic relationship. This alludes nicely to the title of the series, with his RomCom being wrong as he had expected (it differs from the typical RomCom model).

Furthermore, I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that 8man is against the idea of having any sort of romantic relationship. He only stated that he had never truly "loved" someone to Hayato since it was merely a one-sided infatuation. If anything, he doesn't seem to be acting on the girls' advances simply because he's afraid of being hurt again like he was in the past.

I'm not trying to criticize your opinion, but it would help if you gave some more examples.

EDIT: Thanks coffee

BluforceJun 11, 2015 9:37 PM

Jun 11, 2015 9:32 PM

#67

coffeetenshi

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Bluforce: technically it is Hachiman's romantic comedy being wrong, not his conception of a love comedy being wrong.

Jun 11, 2015 9:39 PM

#68

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Bluforce said:

bobzanny said:

Exactly. Let's remember the first episode of S1. Hiratsuka gives Yukinon the request of making Hachiman more socially acceptable-paraphrasing. It's that Hachiman has to end in a relationship it's so that he can have bonds with other humans and not be so cynical.
From my perspective, this story has romance but it's not about romance, it's about adapting to society and accepting oneself to come out of their own shell.

While you are certainly correct about the story focusing on the development of Yukino and 8man as people rather than romance, I feel that it would be even more fitting for 8man to discover that he can indeed have something he never thought possible: a genuine romantic relationship. This alludes nicely to the title of the series, with his conception of a RomCom being wrong as he had expected.

Furthermore, I'm curious as to what gave you the impression that 8man is against the idea of having any sort of romantic relationship. He only stated that he had never truly "loved" someone to Hayato since it was merely a one-sided infatuation. If anything, he doesn't seem to be acting on the girls' advances simply because he's afraid of being hurt again like he was in the past.

I'm not trying to criticize your opinion, but it would help if you gave some more examples.

Well the main reason are from reading the LN and most of his given dialogue, while funny, give insight to his views on women. But it should be mentioned that he does plan on getting married because his dream is to become a full fledged house husband.

Make no mistake though I do wish for Hachiman to end in a relationship (Iroha Plz) it's just that given his character and that this series is far different from the average romcom that Hachiman ending up with no one, yet having a sense of fulfillment is likely as well.

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Jun 11, 2015 9:59 PM

#69

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bobzanny said:

Well the main reason are from reading the LN and most of his given dialogue, while funny, give insight to his views on women. But it should be mentioned that he does plan on getting married because his dream is to become a full fledged house husband.

Make no mistake though I do wish for Hachiman to end in a relationship (Iroha Plz) it's just that given his character and that this series is far different from the average romcom that Hachiman ending up with no one, yet having a sense of fulfillment is likely as well.

Hmm, you should take into consideration that first person narratives by definition include unreliable narrators. The face value of the thoughts that flow through his head aren't necessarily representative of his actual wants and beliefs. If we were to go that route, you could easily argue that he's infatuatued with Yukino since he dedicates entire passages to her. Like I mentioned before, he may be trying to convince himself that women are "dangerous" simply because he's bitter of the past. He's also proven himself to be prone to change. Just look at the way he reacted in episode 8 and compare that to his S1E1 character.

I don't really understand the argument that the series should assert it's uniqueness by having 8man end up with no one. It just doesn't seem logical to head in that direction after the development that was built up.

Jun 11, 2015 10:25 PM

#70

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Bluforce said:

bobzanny said:

Well the main reason are from reading the LN and most of his given dialogue, while funny, give insight to his views on women. But it should be mentioned that he does plan on getting married because his dream is to become a full fledged house husband.

Make no mistake though I do wish for Hachiman to end in a relationship (Iroha Plz) it's just that given his character and that this series is far different from the average romcom that Hachiman ending up with no one, yet having a sense of fulfillment is likely as well.

Hmm, you should take into consideration that first person narratives by definition include unreliable narrators. The face value of the thoughts that flow through his head aren't necessarily representative of his actual wants and beliefs. If we were to go that route, you could easily argue that he's infatuatued with Yukino since he dedicates entire passages to her. Like I mentioned before, he may be trying to convince himself that women are "dangerous" simply because he's bitter of the past. He's also proven himself to be prone to change. Just look at the way he reacted in episode 8 and compare that to his S1E1 character.

I don't really understand the argument that the series should assert it's uniqueness by having 8man end up with no one. It just doesn't seem logical to head in that direction after the development that was built up.

I'd argue more than anything that the development that was built up is more for friendship than anything romantic. One first must understand the trials of a mutual friendship before moving on to anything more serious.

Looking back from the first episode Hachiman stated that it was about 2 years since he talked with a girl and that was a miscommunication. Now Hachiman has Toutska, a guy friend which is huge, Yui, Yukinon to an extent, and Iroha.

I think that the series is more about Hachiman finding friendship and breaking out of his cynical shell than finding a romantic partner.

Now with unreliable narrators, I give you that but there is some truth to his thoughts especially when he reflects by himself. You can argue that he is infatuated with Yukinon or you could argue that he is simply in awe of her presence especially when compared to himself.

And I don't think of it as a uniqueness that he ends up alone, more rather that it is extremely plausible given the starting aim of him joining the service club. And with the way the series has been handled him ending up with no one really wouldn't offput as many people as a typical romcom series would.

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Jun 11, 2015 10:44 PM

#71

Eylandos

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So does Iroha like Hachiman? She grabbed his shirt when he was in front of the door and she acted embarrassed when she saw Yui and Yukino.

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Jun 11, 2015 10:57 PM

#72

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Eylandos said:
So does Iroha like Hachiman? She grabbed his shirt when he was in front of the door and she acted embarrassed when she saw Yui and Yukino.

Hmmmm debatable. I'm on the Iroha ship so I'm full steam ahead. But it could just be that she's flirty with Hachiman because it's entertaining to her but Yukinon scares her so as soon as Iroha saw her Iroha back the fuck off due to repercussions.

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Jun 12, 2015 12:37 AM

#73

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Eylandos said:
So does Iroha like Hachiman? She grabbed his shirt when he was in front of the door and she acted embarrassed when she saw Yui and Yukino.

After watched train scene and this, I'm sure she likes 8man.

Jun 12, 2015 12:38 AM

#74

Shahrukh

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Where can I download Episode 11 ??

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Jun 12, 2015 1:03 AM

#75

CutePriest

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Just watched the raw. Well they did a good job with only a 24min time span but again A LOT of stuff was skipped , changed T_T why feel you gave vol 9 5 episodes and vol 10 gets only 1 and half episode. They did gave justice to the infirmary scene which i liked the most , the atmosphere in that scene was perfect but i would have liked it more if they had added some of 8man's monologue. WHY SO MUCH RUSH FEEL T_T !!!!!!Also judging by next episode preview they won't adapt volume 10.5 are they going for anime original ending ? Will Watari write the original content like he did for BB in season 1 ? A very good episode

5/5 Just because of the infirmary scene ;)

Jun 12, 2015 1:47 AM

#76

NoonSsa

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My assumption is that

Yukino quit following up Haruno's shadow

and instead following up Hachiman's shadow.

Talking about behavior

Jun 12, 2015 1:53 AM

#77

Erika___

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NoonSsa said:
My assumption is that

Yukino quit following up Haruno's shadow

and instead following up Hachiman's shadow.

Talking about behavior

No, she doesn't. She already said that she' going to have something that haruno and hikki don't have. She is trying her best to be independent.

Jun 12, 2015 2:53 AM

#78

Jroflcopter

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weird

Jun 12, 2015 3:06 AM

#79

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Jroflcopter said:
weird

Love is strange, you know?

Jun 12, 2015 3:33 AM

#80

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Can anyone provide me with a link of the episode with english subs?

Jun 12, 2015 3:44 AM

#81

CrazyFrogz

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TheBuddahman said:
Can anyone provide me with a link of the episode with english subs?

Horrible not out yet. Check tokyoshokan

Jun 12, 2015 4:24 AM

#82

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TheBuddahman said:
Can anyone provide me with a link of the episode with english subs?

Check your PM.

Jun 12, 2015 4:32 AM

#83

zeron824

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I seriously believe 8man would not leave the season with any girl. He will leave it with a genuine friendship however.

Jun 12, 2015 4:35 AM

#84

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zeron824 said:
I seriously believe 8man would not leave the season with any girl. He will leave it with a genuine friendship however.

I dont think so cause the energy between him and Yukino is very different from actual friendship. Yui is still complicated cause he may think of her as a friend but she has a crush of him, therefore there is no genuine friendship there either.

Jun 12, 2015 4:38 AM

#85

zeron824

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TheBuddahman said:

zeron824 said:
I seriously believe 8man would not leave the season with any girl. He will leave it with a genuine friendship however.

I dont think so cause the energy between him and Yukino is very different from actual friendship. Yui is still complicated cause he may think of her as a friend but she has a crush of him, therefore there is no genuine friendship there either.

Yui situation is a fine example of a one-sided love. I believe that concept was touched on in this series as well.

Oh and in terms of Yukino having a genuine relationship with Hachiman, she said she's working on it...so....

(I know I didn't really completely back up my answer.)

Jun 12, 2015 4:50 AM

#86

taroworld

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May 2015

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Japanese fans say, this work seems to end with anime original ending.
Hachiman and Yokino will find something genuine ....END
But　in Volume 11, Yui finally tries to confess to Hachiman.Story climax.

Jun 12, 2015 5:01 AM

#87

Joshuaiwe

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GrandTemplar said:

TheBuddahman said:
Can anyone provide me with a link of the episode with english subs?

Check your PM.

Send me as well!!

Jun 12, 2015 5:09 AM

#88

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Joshuaiwe said:

GrandTemplar said:

Check your PM.

Send me as well!!

Okay.

taroeatworld said:
Japanese fans say, this work seems to end with anime original ending.
Hachiman and Yokino will find something genuine ....END
But　in Volume 11, Yui finally tries to confess to Hachiman.Story climax.

Yui tries to confess? I bet she would suffer.

Jun 12, 2015 5:15 AM

#89

worldeditor11

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GrandTemplar said:

taroeatworld said:
Japanese fans say, this work seems to end with anime original ending.
Hachiman and Yokino will find something genuine ....END
But　in Volume 11, Yui finally tries to confess to Hachiman.Story climax.

Yui tries to confess? I bet she would suffer.

It is bound to happen sooner or later anyway, might as well do it during Valentine's Day I suppose. I will agree with your sentiments though, Yui will be rejected.

Jun 12, 2015 5:25 AM

#90

HeCOO

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GrandTemplar said:

TheBuddahman said:
Can anyone provide me with a link of the episode with english subs?

Check your PM.

send me too senpai.

thanks in advance

Jun 12, 2015 5:34 AM

#91

Confucius

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HeCOO said:

GrandTemplar said:

Check your PM.

send me too senpai.

thanks in advance

Me, me, me please!

Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone

Jun 12, 2015 5:37 AM

#92

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Confucius said:

HeCOO said:

send me too senpai.

thanks in advance

Me, me, me please!

Check your profile or PM please.

Jun 12, 2015 5:54 AM

#93

hotcat

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GrandTemplar said:

Confucius said:

Me, me, me please!

Check your profile or PM please.

i need eng sub too senpai

Jun 12, 2015 6:20 AM

#94

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zeron824 said:

TheBuddahman said:

I dont think so cause the energy between him and Yukino is very different from actual friendship. Yui is still complicated cause he may think of her as a friend but she has a crush of him, therefore there is no genuine friendship there either.

Yui situation is a fine example of a one-sided love. I believe that concept was touched on in this series as well.

Oh and in terms of Yukino having a genuine relationship with Hachiman, she said she's working on it...so....

(I know I didn't really completely back up my answer.)

She already has said twice that they could never be friends :p

Jun 12, 2015 6:28 AM

#95

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391

I have some questions concerning the whole situation:
-Wasnt something important about to go down with Yukino's mother at the end of the episode? I was sure this episode would continue with whatever was about to go down there but apparenly it just was to celebrate her birthday with her family?
-Does Yui and Yukino know that the other likes Hachiman too? If yes about when should have each realized?
-Whats the whole deal with Yukino living on her own? How is she even allowed to do so, i thought that this would be out of question for a minor.
-Is Hachiman trully unaware at this point that Yukino and/or Yui have feelings for him?

Jun 12, 2015 6:44 AM

#96

CutePriest

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TheBuddahman said:
I have some questions concerning the whole situation:
-Wasnt something important about to go down with Yukino's mother at the end of the episode? I was sure this episode would continue with whatever was about to go down there but apparenly it just was to celebrate her birthday with her family?
-Does Yui and Yukino know that the other likes Hachiman too? If yes about when should have each realized?
-Whats the whole deal with Yukino living on her own? How is she even allowed to do so, i thought that this would be out of question for a minor.
-Is Hachiman trully unaware at this point that Yukino and/or Yui have feelings for him?

1. The scenario doesn't end at last episode some more events happen and they are described in depth in LN hence read it ;)
2. Yui's crush on 8man was obvious from season 1 but it's unknown weather Yukino is aware of her own feelings. Yui realises that something is going on between 8man and Yukino (her wanting to wear glasses after seeing 8man's reaction to Yukino) as for Yukino i don't think she is aware about Yui's feelings.
3. It's been foreshadowed that her relationship with her family (specially her mother) is very bad. Nothing more is stated in the LN either :( hence the eager waiting for vol 11 on 6/24
4.He is pretty much aware of Yui's feelings but not so much in case of Yukino.

Jun 12, 2015 6:48 AM

#97

Confucius

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Why did Hachiman need to isolte Hayama during the race? Because he thinks he won't talk to him in any other situation?

Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone

Jun 12, 2015 7:09 AM

#98